Welcome to the business of antiques, where I help you make your passion for antiques profitable.

I'm Tom McLark Haines, CEO of the Antique Steven Company, and I'm on a mission to make antiques modern, sexy, fun, and profitable.

I hate to break it to you.

If you're not making money in your antiques business, then it's just a hobby.

In this podcast, I interview some of the leading antique dealers from around the globe, getting their advice and sharing my own on how to sell antiques to the modern day antique buyer.

We discuss ways to recession proof your antiques business by developing strategic marketing plans, elevating your brand to attract the right target market, and planning for profits.

You make your money when you buy, not when you sell.

So we'll discuss some sourcing tips straight out of my antique Stiva little black book.

I'm teaching you the business of antiques.

I'm so happy to see you.

Oh, my gosh.

Okay.

Like, I think this is my most unprofessional opening of a podcast in the history of my podcasting.

And usually I get.

Okay, I'm sending you all kind of, oh my gosh.

I love you, I love you, love you, I love you.

I miss you.

How has it been this long since we saw each other face to face?

It tells you that 2024 was cluster.

I was trying to figure out if this podcast is PG PG 13 or if F bombs are allowed.

So we'll just say it's a cluster.

It's a cluster.

Wait, I got to show you my little secret.

So I now that we have introduced a video into the podcast, because of course, if I see myself, I fall into the pool of my reflection.

In order to look at you and not myself, I'm going to put this little sheet of paper up and cover my face.

And then I can't.

So what's.

And what's funny is I was like, I'm supposed to be looking at you and not myself, so I'm just kind of turning this angle so that I'm looking at you.

Exactly.

No, I have similar ability.

It's like if there's a mirror in the room, I just check myself out.

Mean.

And so a video itself is distracting.

So I wanted to have all eyes on you.

Well, first of all, you're gorgeous.

And if I would have been prepared for it to be on camera, you know, we would have had our leopard down.

Thank you.

Our leopard match.

I will say I was wearing this outfit yesterday if it makes you feel any better.

Okay, so I will tell you that my Pilates leggings are underneath this sweater.

Okay, listeners, you may be wondering who we are talking to because Andrea Highsmith and I have just gone straight into honestly this thing that we do.

Yes.

So Andrea is my sister from another.

From.

What's the expression?

Sister from another.

Sister from another mother.

Sister from another mother.

I wanted to say from another Mr.

But that.

Because that it could be either.

Either, either, either.

Okay.

My sister from another mother.

We were separated at birth.

We rediscovered each other.

Okay, wait, back up.

I would like you to tell everybody who you are and what you do and then tell them about how we met.

Okay, so my name is Andrea.

Legally I'm still Highsmith, but we're going to say Harvey.

Okay.

And Jazz hands.

I am the owner and lead designer of Ash Interiors and Design.

We are a Maryland based design firm.

But it's funny because we have clients, more clients out of state than in state.

But we focus on creating luxury spaces for our clients, whether they're renovation projects or.

Or new build.

We also love to incorporate the luxurious sexy antiques.

And meeting Tama was literally, as she said, we were separated at birth and generally I would have on leopard too.

So basically.

And I not pulled you out of Pilates 100.

Pilates lesson.

Yes.

But yeah, we met.

Oh my gosh.

By.

So Andrew Joseph connected us, which is crazy that it's.

Now it's been.

Was it 20.

It was 2021 when we had our first conversation.

2021 or 2022?

I think it was 2021.

Yeah, we had our phone call.

2021.

Okay.

When we both were going through the shitstorm.

Oh, yes.

No, there's no other way to not cuss and describe what we were both going through.

2021.

See, I think it may have been 2022, but I would have to.

No, I.

No, because I found out I met you in person in real Life in Paris.

2022.

Okay, so it must have been 2022 then, because it was just a few months later.

If I recall the day 2021.

I feel like it was fall 2021.

And then we met in person in France.

And the rest is.

Is history.

And the rest is history.

No.

Okay, so listeners, I'm gonna give you some inside scoop.

The very first.

You guys have heard me mention from time to time that I've been working on this TV show for bloody ever.

To the point that I'm like, what am I doing this for?

But I'm still going forward.

I'm still persevering.

I keep going.

I keep going because that's the kind of girl I am.

And.

Right.

Andrea and I first met the very first time we were working on filming for this TV show.

And she actually.

Andrew Joseph introduced us.

And he's.

Andrew Joseph was my publicist in the past.

He was her publicist at that time.

And he.

And Andrew calls me one day and Andrew says, thomas, I think I've met your soul sister.

He's like, you guys are a lot alike.

You, you need to meet, you need to talk.

And so at the same time we were getting ready to film, Andrea calls me.

And I said, and literally what you guys as listeners have just heard of us just immediately getting into the thick of a conversation.

We're strangers.

And within three minutes, like, I think we were both in tears.

And we talked for like an hour.

It was supposed to be like a 10 minute intro and it was like an hour conversation.

And it literally was like, we know each other, but we've never met each other.

And I feel like what's so amazing about our relationship is the fact that we have been in each other's spaces, what, four times?

Yeah.

Is that all?

I feel like it is.

Okay, like twice in.

Like twice in Europe.

Once, Paris.

Okay.

No, no, Three times.

So we had Provence the first time.

The second time.

The second time you came to visit me in Venice.

And then, remember we caught the flight just to go to Paris for a party.

Party.

And you're like, oh, so this is how we roll.

I can get down with that.

And we're just gonna jump on a plane.

And then the third time, I.

No, I think the second time was in Paris for the Paris party.

Exactly.

Champagne brunch.

And then the third time was Venice in Paris.

And then the fourth time was High Point.

Was High Point.

And we missed each other at this High Point.

Right.

Which was my fault because I didn't understand that the building I was going to was not on campus.

But that's.

That's a whole other story, literally.

But if you think about that, four in persons.

Yeah.

Oh, wait, we can't forget the Chateau.

So five.

Five in persons.

Okay.

Every good story begins with and we can't forget the Chateau.

So Andrea and I met through Andrew Joseph immediately after our one hour heartbearing phone call.

She and I decided two things.

One, she needed to film with me in the first time filming for the project as top secret project.

And so as a result, you came to France, I believe, for the first time and filmed in the south of France.

Ilsa the Sword Antiquing.

And this was your first exposure really into the international world of antiques.

Yes.

And it was.

And what I loved about it was, and we, we discussed this numerous times was when I went to antique places here in the U.S.

it all, or at least I'm not going to say that that's very general, but the places that I was aware of and familiar were.

They were gross and they were old and they were like just dark and dingy and not like anything that I could feel like I could even see incorporating into our clients spaces.

And then we're in Provence and it's like, this is, like this is antique.

Like this totally.

I would move into, open my house right now.

I could think of immediate clients that I could incorporate.

And that is what was so exciting because all of a sudden it was like, okay, you have to just find good antiques and you have to find things that maybe you personalize by fabric or, you know, the way you incorporate.

I mean, like your beautiful home that you have, you know, how do you incorporate?

How do you have that juxtaposition of modern with antiques?

How do you keep it sexy?

How do you keep it fun?

How do you make it feel fresh?

And that is what that exposure, that, that's what it did.

And it was so amazing.

And it has forever changed how I think about projects because I like to now incorporate things that are special and that are unique and that have this story.

So I thank you for that.

I believe that every interior needs to have a little bit of patina, that it's even the most modern of projects.

Something over the top, antique or incredibly rustic in a modern interior can and be the piece that completely sets off and makes and makes everything else better than it is on its own.

And was so exciting for me.

I took your virginity in the south of France.

I'm just saying.

No longer.

Virginia, your daughter might listen to this.

No.

So, yes, Chiara, I was a virgin until Paris.

I took your antiques virginity.

Let's not get any rumors started here, here.

So I took your antiques virginity in the south of France.

And it was so great to have someone who's coming in and I saw your eyes literally opening, like, what the what?

And this point about so often people have a perception of what antiques are that gets in the way of them understanding what the opportunities are for buying antiques.

And it's often when I tell people what I do, I pay attention to who my audience is, like, who.

Who I'm talking to.

And sometimes when someone asks me what I do, I'll say, oh, I do global sourcing.

And I don't say global sourcing for antiques.

I don't even mention antiques.

I say global sourcing.

And then they're, they're intrigued with the conversation.

But there's a graphic.

If I say antiques, they're going to picture grandma's dirty attic.

And so it's.

Sometimes antiques can get a bad rap and.

Because people haven't always seen the right, the right kind of antiques.

Exactly.

So I, I love the fact that you highlighted that because that's also for our listeners, most of whom are antique dealers.

I think for them, them thinking about how antiques can be perceived is an important topic.

Absolutely.

And what I loved about it too was just even the way the spaces were curated.

You know, I, I know Margaret, for example, when you said patina, I immediately thought of her.

It's all about the patina.

But you know, I think even just the way the products are again, staged, how they're curated in the space can change the perception.

You know, as you know, I had the studio in Ellicott City and there was an antiques dealer down the hill.

And when you walked in, it just looked like a junkyard.

It just looked like everywhere you turn there was just crap.

And maybe there were some gems in there, but you couldn't even see them because it was just buried under, just dark, gloomy, just ugh.

And I think that was what was also really refreshing were these beautiful boutiques, These beautiful, you know, even the ones when we went to the open markets, it was just like you walked in and they, they told stories as you, as you walk through the spaces.

And you know, again, I just love.

That it was really inspiring when I lived in Berlin.

So I lived in Berlin eight years before Venice, which Venice is now seven years this year, which is so crazy.

Are you serious?

No.

It's insane.

No.

So I was five years Paris, five years Amsterdam, eight years Berlin, seven years a.m.

seven years Venice.

And I'm like, I have lived overseas more than I've lived in America at this stage of my life.

Right.

To think about, like, I, I realize my brain isn't fully American anymore, even though my voice will always be Cuando parlo italiano.

Oh, an accenta comedy.

Frank Sinatra.

When I speak Italian, I can accent like Frank Sinatra.

Anyway, when I lived in Berlin, I, when I lived in Berlin, I had the most amazing apartment.

It was a loft, it was a three level loft apartment in Malthuis Brewery.

And so the building was one of the only industrial monuments in Berlin and converted into a living space.

And so my dining room, I'll show you Photos of this later.

My dining room was the oven for the brewery and the space was super cool.

Although I will say in Berlin people don't feel very comfortable going inside of an oven, to be honest with you.

That's really right.

I understand that the original thought I.

Was going to use the oven because it was a huge room.

I was going to use it as my.

As my guest bedroom because I didn't have it.

Even though it was three levels, it was huge, super spacious.

There wasn't an actual guest bedroom and I had to.

Mariska Myers, if you know her.

Yes.

So Mariska from Amsterdam came to visit and she was in the guest room.

And I wake up in the morning and she's pulled the bed out of the oven into my kitchen.

And she said, I can't sleep in an oven in Berlin.

I was like, oh my God, that's so true.

She and I immediately converted that into a.

She and I immediately converted that in room into a dining room.

But makes sense.

The point of this whole story about this apartment in Berlin is the apartment was.

Had a lot of space.

It was super minimal.

And everything except for two items in the apartment was antique, vintage or secondhand retro.

Secondhand.

And my white leather couch, which here in Venice is sitting behind me, was in the living room in Berlin and in my bedroom.

I didn't realize that came from Berlin.

Yeah, everything in this apartment was in the apartment in Berlin.

The difference is, is that in this apartment I'm 80.

I'm 82 square meters, which is like, I don't know, 850, 900 square feet.

And in the Berlin apartment I was 190 square meters, which was like 2300 square feet.

And yeah, so I.

But the funny thing, and this relates to antique stores and layout and retail spaces.

The funny thing is in Berlin I had two pieces that were not antique.

One was a white leather sofa, one was a black leather bed.

Everything else antique, vintage, secondhand, retro, etc.

So one of my good friends walks into my apartment, Berlin, and I just moved in and I was so proud of it.

And we were being photographed for a magazine and I was super proud.

And she comes in and she goes, I think it's so strange that you don't have any antiques.

And I just looked at her like, what are you talking about?

Like, you can see over my shoulder, like, here's the Swedish buffet.

The Swedish.

Right, like clock.

I mean, it's a.

It's all antiques.

What do you mean?

And she looked around and she said, it's because of all the white space.

She said, when I think of antiques, I think of walking into a place that is really full and cluttered.

And I mean, my living room is honestly a little cluttered here in Venice because I'm much smaller space with the same amount of furniture.

But the thing that's interesting is she read my home as not having antiques.

And I actually took it as a compliment because what it meant is the space felt relevant.

And I think as an antique stealer, remembering to give your inventory space to breathe is really great, great, great advice.

That's a great.

That's a great statement too.

And I think that's even in design in general.

Like, you know, sometimes people feel I have to sometimes tell clients, like, you don't have to have something on every single wall, in every single corner.

Like, let this space live and start to evolve.

Let it breathe, let it evolve.

That's a really good advice for letting the space evolve.

Now sometimes I just am over working with the client and just am done.

Make this.

I think for now we've.

We've reached a really good point.

I think it's done.

It looks like.

Okay, so we were talking.

We can circle back.

So we started out our journey together in Provence.

We filmed together there, had an amazing time.

You bought your very first antiques there, and you actually bought inventory, which you brought in to your interior design space.

And at the time, I remember you were looking at accessories that could be items that could go as shelf on items on shelves.

That.

That's something that it gave you the option to do something other than running down and.

And picking up accessories that everyone have access to to you having your own items that you could be making your own shelfies and your own installations.

Right, right.

And, you know, our big picture dream, which I still feel like it's still there.

It's funny, I always say, I'm like, I don't know how many lives I've had, but I feel like I probably have a couple more.

But I still have this vision of having a space that we can sell products and do design services, et cetera.

You know, I always say it's so funny how life pivots because we had the studio in Ellicott City.

We bought some amazing pieces, kept them in there for a while, and then actually sold them through clients and put them in projects.

And then just like you said, we have shelfies.

Like right now, we still right here.

Easily accessible is not only a weapon, but it's a beautiful candlestick that came from when we were sourcing Things in England virtually.

So we definitely love being able to say that, oh, this piece came from working with our dealer overseas, so we love that.

But I definitely see, you know, at some point, another iteration.

You know, I keep just kind of thinking, like, what's life going to look like now?

We're in a smaller office space because client needs changed.

I mean, last year we had more clients out of state than in state.

So it was like, okay, we just need a base right now to have our stuff and be able to sit down.

But I was on a plane, train or.

Hell, planes, trains or automobiles, like every 10 days.

Last year.

No, last year we were talking about the fact we didn't see each other last year.

And we've seen each other since we met.

We had been seeing each other about every six months, professionally or personally.

And last year, every time I saw your Facebook page, you were in a different city, in a different country, in a different area.

Like, you were everywhere.

Yeah, we were, like, stupid busy.

And it wasn't really.

And, you know, it was actually almost like part of 2023.

But then 2024 was weird because it was.

2023 was our best year, like, ever.

And then 2024 was, like our third worst.

But I was finishing stuff from 2023.

Best year.

But then as I told Kia, who is our amazing designer, and she does our social media and she's just multi hat, I told her the biggest mistake that I made in 2023 was we were so reactive to all of the influx of work that the business of design, of making sure our pipeline was ready, making sure that we had, you know, things kind of happening, it totally threw off 2024.

And so Q1, Q2, it was like, wait a second, I'm working my butt off.

But these projects are.

It's the smallest portion of, like, pay on these projects because we're finishing.

And then it was like, oh, crap, you know, and I should know better.

I mean, 25 years.

But it was just so crazy.

You were in the thick of it and you were busy and everything's going so well.

Your daughter plays what Sport?

I forget?

C.

D1.

Lacrosse.

I was thinking about a ball metaphor.

And that was it, too.

That was it, too.

She was, you know, getting graduate.

She was graduating.

It was her senior year, you know, so literally I was pulled in every single direction.

And, you know, you can only juggle so many balls.

I don't care what anybody says.

What my metaphor was, as I was thinking, you were at a moment you were dealing with so much, your Eye went off the ball and the ball is where?

Okay, if I'm, I don't know lacrosse metaphors, but as a teenager, me neither.

Hey, you go to your daughter's games.

I've seen you prioritize it many times.

So as a teenager, I played basketball.

I.

I played defense.

I didn't know that I did.

I've got.

There's a secret about me you don't know.

We just keep finding out.

I actually am still pretty good at dribbling the ball.

I can, I can do figure eights between my legs with a basketball, bring it around the back and my.

I.

My brain, my brain just exploded.

I know.

Can you imagine me doing that?

It's like so.

Not part of Persona, but yes, I was a ball hand.

Well, you know, I was a, you know, I was a cheerleader.

Thank you.

I can see it right now, just in the pose of your shoulders.

The only thing that's missing is a little bit of cleavage.

I know.

I do this.

Anyway, that's how you should sit and hold it.

The rest, you just hold your neck of your turtleneck down.

That'll be like, oh, now I recognize you.

You guys are the same.

Anyway, so to use a basketball metaphor, it's you keep your eye on the ball.

And keeping your eye on the ball is guaranteeing that you know what's happening next, you know where to run, you know where to go.

And I think as a small business owner, it is an issue that when you're so busy dealing with business, you can take your eye off the ball, which the ball is next year's business.

And it's, for me, the one thing that I will never not do is a sales call with a client.

It's on my podcast.

I always say I'm willing to give a free one hour consultation to anyone who wants it.

And the reason I say that is because I know that free one hour consultation may not lead to business today, but at some point down the road, it's leading so that there's a pipeline of potential clients coming in.

And with what I do time that the initial conversation and then maybe it's six months later and there's a second conversation and it's a year later and there's a third conversation.

My best at the moment, he started 10 years ago as a client and his first tour he maybe spent a thousand dollars.

His second tour he made 15,000.

His third tour, by seven years later he spent 30 some thousand.

And on his fourth tour he spent 400,000.

And it's like that's and.

And now he's coming back.

He's got his next tour booked and planned.

And I know for me as a.

As a business owner, and I think this applies for you as an interior.

For me doing what I do for you doing what you do as an interior designer.

And for a lot of our listeners who are antique dealers, I think no matter how good it is today, always thinking, what's next?

Where's my next meal coming from?

Is one of the most important things you can do in your business.

And so then when you get behind, you have to scramble to catch back up, right?

And like you said, it happens so fast because, you know the same thing.

You know, we get referrals, but I think also sometimes I.

We did a SWOT analysis in the beginning of 2024, and the one thing I said was, what happens?

I said, our biggest threat is our strength is our biggest threat as well, because our strength is that we have these amazing referrals.

But then the threat is that what happens when you don't.

We don't.

When the referrals slow down or what happens when we don't convert the referrals.

The good thing is we actually proud to say we convert.

Our closing ratio of conversion is like 95%.

If we don't get it immediately, it's still within, like you said, within six months or a year.

They're like, okay, I'm ready now.

But the challenge is because, again, being so very reactive in 2023, it was like you said, it was like, wait, I haven't.

I haven't met with any new potential clients.

I haven't.

We haven't done any proposals.

And all of a sudden it's like, oh, yes.

So, you know, we reset Q3, reset Q4.

And I'm very proud to say that, like, we literally are booked out until the summer.

And it's now, you know, it's my birthday eve.

Happy early birthday.

Yes.

Or are we gonna ignore this?

All of 47.

And I feel all of 47 in my face.

Okay.

I don't even have good bags.

You talk about when I went and when we went to Provence the first time, and then, remember, I went to Paris, so bought antiques and then bought vintage goodies.

So these aren't even good vintage Chanel bags.

Chanel.

This is not vintage Louis Vuitton.

This is just ours without sleep.

It's just vintage.

This is just old eyes.

Sometimes I say that the bags under my eyes are so heavy that they need bagmen.

They need someone to help you care.

The back, yes, absolutely.

No, I told you off camera beforehand that I was in a moment of my life, that I'm in the eye of the storm.

And I just did something really major yesterday.

I hired a personal assistant, which I've not had since 2019.

And I was like, it's time.

I can't.

I can't do this alone.

I need help.

Right.

And today she started, and we said, this first week, she's only doing 10 hours this first week.

And she started, and she spent two and a half hours securing a van, which we needed to bring some inventory up from Rome to.

To Florence to the house in Chianti, which you need to come to.

Yes, yes.

Talking August.

But she spent two and a half hours doing something that I would have had to do at midnight or at 4 in the morning because I wouldn't have had any help doing it.

And you don't think about all those things in your business that take little bits of time.

Right.

It's like, I can't survive without help.

I can't be getting up at four in the morning to book a van because I didn't have time to get it done during the work day.

And that's exactly it.

You lose a day, you lose a day.

I mean, I tell people all the time, you know, they're always like, oh, my God, you're an entrepreneur.

I'm like, do you understand what that really means?

It means that you work every single day.

Yep.

Even when you're not working, you're working.

It means that there are times when you're working until midnight or you're getting up at six in the morning to do something before work starts.

It.

It means that your phone is ringing.

Yeah.

Text.

And again, this is not even just like, oh, new business.

Fun.

It's just sometimes the.

The business of business.

It's the, oh, my gosh, I didn't.

I didn't book this or I didn't, oh, shoot, I forgot to make this request.

And then you have to do.

Well, I'll be honest, whoever's listening, we're like five design boards behind.

Because that part of my brain, I can't.

It's like I can't even get it going right now.

You know what I mean?

So one of my favorite quotes is a Picasso quote that is, Artists need solitude.

And I'm kind of butchering the quote, but basically, artists need solitude.

You need that white space in order to be able to create.

You need silence.

And for me, I, you know, the importance to me of writing and journaling and if I don't take that time in the morning to give my brain the space to do it all day long, I'm like in this cacophony cloud.

But it's like you're so good at that too.

Time to journal in the morning.

It can take.

My journaling can take 15 minutes or it can take an hour and a half or two hours.

And I don't have that every morning.

And I really, I've made it a priority in my life that the way I schedule my time because I know if I'm going to be at my healthiest, my most productive, I journal when I wake up.

And so now I allot my schedule that I don't make any appointments before 10am and so that I have the time to wake up and journal as much as I need to.

But sometimes that means I'm putting my hair in a ponytail and lipstick and mascara and running out the door looking like a teenager with bags under their eyes.

You know, I love that you said that you just had a key phrase to be your best self.

And that is what I said my 2025 was going to be.

Because I really felt like 2024.

I had to be very honest and I said I can't work this way any longer and I have to be intentional about it.

And I had this goal, I had this business goal that I don't even know how it became a business goal.

It just to me was like, this is what you're supposed to do, you know.

And so the business goal was like I wanted to hit a million dollars in, you know, and being an entrepreneur, small business, that's a big, that's kind of a big feat.

Right?

And we were super close 2023, like surprisingly close.

But I also realized that's the reason why I thank you.

But that's also the reason that I realized that I gained 20 pounds, I didn't sleep, I literally was losing my mind.

And so having that follow up of the 2024 being terrible when in my head I was like, oh my gosh, we're totally going to hit a million 2024 because of where we were, I had to say, you know what?

I don't want to hit a million and die.

Yeah.

I'm like, I know that sounds dramatic, but it was like, I am not taking care of myself.

So saying about the Pilates, like that's one of the reasons why I started that.

That's one of the reasons like you.

I said, I can't now.

Of course there are some Exceptions.

But I was like, I don't want to have a client meeting before 10:00.

Like I need to give myself time to not feel like.

Because, because the day is going to start.

You know, my guys, you know, I'll talk to our guys, check on job sites, that kind of stuff.

But if I can help it, it's like I don't want to do a new client meeting or presentation until 10.

I also have to be honest about, you know, 4:00 on a.

4:00 isn't a good time either, you know, to be my most bubbly self.

So I think it's really important to, like you said, take the time.

And clients just really have to understand those boundaries.

And believe it or not, I'm still struggling with it, but I got a second phone.

I haven't used it yet, but.

What are you doing?

Well, it's supposed to be my.

It's supposed to be my personal phone so that on the weekends I can put my work phone away.

I still haven't been successful at it yet, but I unfortunately have clients that have zero boundaries.

And you probably have it too in the sense of.

Because everybody's at different time zones.

But.

My busy time of the day and it's naturally a low energy time for me.

So I get it.

Sorry, keep going.

I interrupted you.

Yeah, so.

No, no.

So basically that was One thing for 2025 was to say, okay, you know when hours are off because I'll have clients that will text me at three in the morning and then at seven in the morning we'll say, did you see my text that they sent at 3 in the morning?

And then they will call me and then they will email me and they will text me again.

We're gonna have to put a parental rating on this.

I'm like, listen up, bitch.

If I did not respond two hours from now, like, I'm sorry, like if you're gonna get your panties in a wad, like, I will respond.

I promise you.

I'm not always fast to.

But I right do my best.

And if I haven't responded in two hours, it's because I haven't had the time to write the capacity to.

And you sent me a text at 4:58 in the morning saying, hey, can you call me when you wake up and it's Sunday.

Oh yeah.

No, no, no, no, no, no.

So that's my other thing was to.

Say boundary has to listen up.

I know.

Thank you.

That's going to be the name of this episode.

Listen up, bitch.

For the record, you did not say this to your client.

I was the one saying it.

Thomas Edit.

Thomas Edit.

All of a sudden people are going to look at their phones and say, I text her at six in the morning.

I'm be like, what's.

It's so impressive that you got a second phone.

Because it's one of my struggles is I have set my WhatsApp to nobody can see if I've read their message and change WhatsApp so that they can't see your online.

I've tried and so sometimes I'll be online and then I'll have three clients texting me at the same time saying, hey, I just have one quick question and I'm like, literally I'm on a two hour consulting call at that moment.

I can't answer your question.

They're paying me and they love, they.

Love a quick question.

And I'll be honest with you, I love that my clients feel comfortable to ask that, to say, I have a quick question.

But it's like in this day and age, a quick question doesn't need to be answered immediately.

Very few things are urgent is what I have learned.

Absolutely.

Very few things need to be discussed within this exact minute.

I mean I'm gonna be, I'm not.

And I've said it before, I've said, I know this is very important to you, but there, there really isn't a design emergency in the sense of some of the people that reach out and have this kind of sense of I need it now.

They aren't even like literally they're still in the proposal introductory stage.

And so then I start feeling like we haven't even like we don't even have a contract yet.

I don't if this is how you're acting at this point, I don't even know if this is a really good fit.

And that's the other thing that we're trying to be really honest about this year is there is a, there is a certain part of Maryland and I'm not going to say it, but we really have challenges with the clients that are from this part of Maryland.

Maryland And I have been on the fence of literally taking the entire county out and saying we do not work in this area because every time it's the same type of behavior.

And after we finish this client that we have in this area now, I think I'm going to not do that area anymore.

And you have to be honest, I think about kind of what really fits your business goals, your design style, etc.

Do you know Madcap Cottage.

Have you heard of them?

They're in North Carolina.

The Madcap Cottage boys have a no asshole clause in their interior design client contracts.

And can you say that again?

They have a no asshole clause.

And so in their contract, they take the client through their contract.

This is so they were one of my first podcast guests.

So you can go back in the archives and listen to them.

They.

So they take their client through their first contract and then they say, the last point on the contract is we have a no asshole clause.

And this is what it means to be an asshole.

And if at any time you.

You act as if you're an asshole.

If at any time you act this way, then you, you either have to pay extra, you have to pay money as a penalty for that behavior, or we have the right to terminate the contract.

And I said, this is so bold.

And they said, no, we have actually charged clients and they've paid it.

I freaking love that.

And it's funny because.

Yeah, and it's funny.

My friend is an attorney and she's wonderful, and she basically, you know, adjusts our contract as needed.

There's always an additional line item added, and it's usually because of this said asshole clause.

So, you know, we have, you know, some, we have some bullet points that are specific examples of, you know, this behavior can lead to termination.

But I actually, I'm like, maybe we do have to just spell it out because I think sometimes people don't realize what they're doing is indirect, like, conflict of the.

The proposal.

So when guests stay at my home, I have a email that I send out in advance before guests stay with me.

And I say, hey, looking so forward to you coming to visit and taking me out to dinner.

And.

And then I say, by the way, I host a lot of visitors.

I have tons of people stay at my house, and I love having people stay at my house, but it costs me money when you stay here.

Just so you know, you're paying for dinner when you're here.

Just, just.

Just FYI.

And it's funny because guests always, they arrive and of course, I don't make them pay for every single thing, but it's like a.

Literally a copy and paste that I send people.

And it's amazing because in the end, I know I, I sent this because one time I realized a guest had come and it was a tight moment.

And, you know, when you own your own business is cash flow.

I mean, I'm a single woman running my own company and having employees and sometimes it's Paying the employees and not paying myself and girl.

Yeah.

And sometimes people don't realize, like, if you don't sign a new client, the bills don't say, oh, I'll wait till the next client.

Still there.

And so, I mean, there's cash flow issues at the end of the year.

Everything's always fine, but in certain moments in life, it's not.

And I realized I have so many visitors, and then visitors want to go out to eat every night.

And finally I just said, no, that's it.

This is the rule.

You've got a free place in Venice.

That's.

You're saving at minimum, 200 a night.

That's it.

Right, right.

No, it's true.

But it's like having that.

No.

A hole clause in even on my personal life.

And I think you're thinking personal life, which, by the way, for the listeners, Andrea and I have this thing which we've not done in so long, and I'm.

I'm so sad.

It.

It pittered out just because we were both busy.

We used to do this thing called the Prosecco Power Hour.

And someday, someday we should be on TV with this.

It'd be like our own version of the View.

You know what I was thinking, too?

Even if we do it, maybe we do it once a quarter.

Yeah, okay.

Once a quarter is doable.

I think.

I think so much.

Yeah.

I think once a quarter, we just do it.

Bring it back.

Because it was.

I literally still have people say, you and Tama were so fun.

Yep.

I have people mention it all the time.

So this is what we used to do in the Prosecco Power Hour.

We would be having a professional conversation about interior design or about antiques or about just the business of design and antiques.

And then it always delves into a personal part of the conversation.

Like, it.

It's.

I think, within my life, everything's personal, everything's awesome.

Absolutely.

Like, it's.

They're so intermingled.

But so on a personal level, I have a thing that.

It's one of my mantras.

I have lots of mantras.

Most of my mantras are very positive.

But, like, I, I, I have.

I make money when I'm having fun.

I always make money when I'm having fun.

The more fun I'm having, the more money I'm making.

Fortunately, I have a fun, but I love it.

I have a thing that I don't negotiate with terrorists.

And I had a client that they always.

Conversations with them felt like a landmine.

And I was just like, okay, I don't negotiate with terrorists.

And in fact, this particular client I called and I said, you know what?

I don't think we're a good fit.

And they said, what do you mean?

And I said, I'm not.

Are you firing me as a client?

I said, absolutely not firing you as a client, but I'm going to refer you to one of my competitors who I think you're going to be better suited for in the end.

They still work with my competitor.

I think they were better suited for each other because my competitor was willing to put up with their shit and I wasn't.

And maybe even more importantly, the point was, is I'm not for everybody.

And.

Right.

It's a really good thing to be at that point in your career when you say, you know what?

You may not be the right fit for me or I may not be the right fit for you.

And this isn't personal.

I'm not going to take offense over this.

It's just there.

There are different business types, there are different ways of doing business.

There are different personality types, and sometimes it fits and sometimes it doesn't.

And.

And it.

It was the most refreshing thing for me to reach that point on a professional level.

And I reached it on a professional level earlier than I did on a personal level.

But in the end, I reached it on a personal level, too.

Okay.

I love it.

And you're right.

I have this thing here.

It says you won't be everyone's cup of tea because you are champagne, darling.

And it's the reminder, because it really is.

Not everyone likes jazz hands.

Not everyone likes Sparkle and Shine.

Not everyone can handle the energy of that.

Right.

And I feel like those projects, just like you said, where it feels like a landmine, where it feels like you're constantly just struggling, I don't feel like they ever go well.

I don't feel like they ever.

The finished product is never kind of what you.

What you wanted or hope, because it just.

It just seemed like there's always this contention, and I feel like those are often clients that either they really don't understand what we do and why there's value in it, or sometimes they just don't want to let go.

And I feel like that's the biggest thing is being able to say, like, I'm not a doctor, you're right.

But if you.

If you hired me as a professional, and so you have to respect my professional knowledge, and you wouldn't tell your doctor how to do surgery, but you're quick to tell me all the things you want, and you're not open to anything else, so it's.

Sometimes, you know, you have to be honest about that.

So that is our other 20, 25.

And.

And I agree with you as far as the personal.

I feel like I have learned that too.

And, you know, it's like, you.

If you can't handle this ride, then you need to get off and get in line somewhere else.

Absolutely.

I am so there.

There we go.

And we'll continue that offline.

Absolutely.

I had a.

Someone asked me out recently, and he asked me out, like, maybe a week and a half ago, and I said, yeah.

And I.

I never actually considered him as a romantic interest.

And he's like, are you single?

I'm like, yeah, very.

So, no, single.

He said, oh, you know, maybe.

Maybe we can have a drink or whatever.

And I'm like, yeah, maybe in March.

And he's like, it's end of January.

And I'm like, yeah, maybe end of March.

Maybe I have time in the end of March.

And.

And he goes, I guess you're a busy lady.

I'm like, I am a busy lady.

It's so funny to not feel apologetic, to not feel like I owe anybody anything, and to feel like, oh, yeah, the right guy.

The right guy will say, okay, let's make a date in March.

And yeah, you're exactly.

You're right about that.

For me, at this moment of my life, I'm.

I'm in the process of taking over the world.

I am in the process.

So many big things going on.

I.

Yeah, I will say.

So he should be happy if he can get in March.

How about that?

Exactly.

That's exactly.

And if he doesn't get on the calendar, March might turn into April.

Yeah, right.

Or never.

I love it.

Okay, we are 47 minutes into our conversations.

We need to cover a few additional topics before.

Oh, gosh.

Power through these last few things.

So, okay, we talked about the first time you came was in Provence.

We talked about accessories.

We talked about.

We talked about a little bit about vintage fashion.

Not a huge amount, but we dipped a toe into it.

Something I wanted to close out on was the time about the time we went to the chateau that we.

We forgot, I believe.

What was the sin that you said, we forgot about the time we went to the chateau.

We forgot about the chateau.

So I recall giving you a call and saying, hey, how do you want to go to.

Do you want to go to Bordeaux with me?

I have this amazing opportunity to go stay in this private home in a chateau in Bordeaux.

And it just so happens the antiques dealer sells architectural salvage.

And we got in the car, you flew in, I think, to Paris, and I think so.

And I met you with a rental car.

And we drove down to Bordeaux, which was a long drive, chatting the whole way, and we stopped for the night in the Loire Valley.

So before we stayed in the show, before we stayed in the chateau, you went and toured a chateau?

And we ran into.

And we ran into Halle Berries, of course.

No, we ran into Halle Berry's ex husband.

You remember his name without Googling it.

I'm Googling.

I know, because remember, we were sitting at the table and I was like, I think that's Halle Berry's husband and ex husband.

And you're like, no, he's younger than that.

And I'm like, I know, but I swear, I thought, it's him.

Olivier Martinez.

Olivier, yes.

Olivier Martinez.

Yes.

And then, remember when we saw the kid, and I was like, that is him.

And then we started chatting with him.

I believe I said, well, you're.

You're cuter than Halle Berry.

Make a move, Make a move.

And then I said, the lies you tell when you're drunk.

Oh, my gosh.

No, that was.

That was such a very unique experience.

And I think, what with that experience, that place, when we saw the fireplaces, that was like, oh, my gosh.

We were in the Chateau de Chambord, and we're in the Chateau de Chambord and we're walking, and all of a sudden you look over at the fireplace and you were.

You were like, this is like something I could use in my interiors.

And I'm like, this is something we can help you source for your interiors.

And I remember you just being so mind blown and me thinking, oh, we found.

We found your niche.

If you were to ever open an antique store, like, I could see you specializing in chateau.

In Chateau.

And what we discuss, like, architectural, Architectural elements.

Because a lot of what we do is on the construction side.

So the, the planning and the logistics, you know, being able to plan for that on the front end and knowing that that's an option and knowing that that's a, A, A true, like, realistic thing for us.

Because again, not all clients.

This is what I tell people a lot, and they don't realize it because we are more on the construction side.

We do the kitchens, we do the bathrooms, and we do a lot of the new builds.

I don't always get the furniture, you know, and it sucks because then they put their furniture in, and then I'm like, We got to, like, strategically move.

Move their craft to take pictures.

But, you know, we will do some amazing properties, but it's more on the construction side.

So realizing that we could get some of these, you know, vintage elements, these antique elements, and incorporate them in that aspect, that was really exciting because it's like, okay, I may not be able to get a chair.

I may not be able to get a sofa, but if we plan well, we can put this.

This vintage fireplace.

We can.

Or this antique fireplace, or these doors.

You know, all of a sudden, it was that type of thing.

I remember you walking around, taking pictures of the floor, taking pictures of the patina, taking pictures of shutters, and me saying, yeah, in Chateau de Chambord, we can't get this from them.

But there are a lot of chateaus that are.

Pieces are being pulled out, and it is.

It's the thing that I feel like is going to change the future trajectory of your business.

I mean, I think one of the things that's important when I work with a new client is figuring out.

Figuring out their place in the.

In the antiques world.

And part of it comes down to exposure and seeing you.

You go to Paris, you go to Provence, you go to England, you go to Italy, you go.

You see the.

These things in various places.

But there's always a moment where I feel the magic with a client that I'm like, oh, and this is the moment that their life changed.

And it's what I feel like in five years or 10 years, we're going to be looking at your interior projects in your coffee table book, and there's.

We're going to be flipping through, and this is what's going to be reflected in your future palette.

Absolutely.

And even just, like, lighting and all of those things.

So you're right.

It was definitely the.

Those items.

You know, we have a big project coming up this summer, and even with that, I've been trying to think about how do we create.

It's a beautiful property in the Hamptons.

And we're like, how can we incorporate some of these interesting things to just make it really special?

And that's.

That's what I'm excited about from today.

And, you know, even as the future evolves in our business and business goals, and then, you know, one of the goals is that when, you know, my daughter is a freshman in college, but my goal is by 50, I'm living half in Europe, half in the U.S.

so, you know, Tama knows she's ready.

She's like, all right, when are you.

Coming you're gonna be my next door neighbor.

Okay, so two things based on what you said.

So one, when you come this summer, in August, we're gonna be in Tuscany together, just hanging out and honestly, just laying by a swimming pool and getting a nice tan and, and relaxing and reading books.

How perfect does that sound?

My gosh.

Well, first of all, that's gonna happen.

Second of all, we're gonna get you in some Castellos and castles and villas.

We're gonna make it a business trip for your tax people.

There we go.

Go.

You need to, you need to tour some villas, you need to see some architecture in Italy to get the design inspiration, because I think that's important for just opening your eye.

But two, this project in the Hamptons, something that you can do, or any project, you can schedule a call, obviously, a free call.

You're my friend.

You could schedule a call anyway.

But you could schedule a consulting call where you come through and you walk me through your floor layout plans and we look at all the places that we could incorporate and I could pull photos so that you have samples of ideas that you.

Because that.

I think the hardest thing is when you don't know what's possible.

So that if you describe a room to me and you say, okay, here's the room, this is what's happening in it.

I can say, literally be Googling and sending you screenshots saying, you have access to this, you have access to this.

You have access to this.

And you're looking, you're looking at bricks, you're looking at even wooden flooring or ceiling beams or ceiling tiles.

Like, you can walk me through the floor plan and we can get ideas so that in the future you have a full resource behind you.

I wanted to show you the name of a book, a name of a publisher.

It's called Beta Publishing.

Okay.

And bait.

I'll text it to you on WhatsApp when we get off the phone.

But Beta Publishing is based out of Belgium, and they do a series of books on architectural salvage and literally go on their website and buy all the books they have.

Like, they, they have five or six books, maybe 10 books.

They never have everything in stock, whatever they have in stock order for your design library because that's going to educate you on all the.

On utilizing architectural salvage in your interiors.

I love it.

It's.

Yeah, I.

I'm so excited, and I'm so excited about this summer.

I know I gotta do it.

We're gonna do it.

I love it.

No, I'm like, we need it.

I'm like, maybe because that's important as well.

Having that balance.

It is.

And girlfriend time.

Absolutely.

And champagne.

Absolutely.

I love you.

I love you.

Tell everybody how they can find you.

Oh, my goodness.

So you can find us on.

Oh, my God.

And I didn't even.

Oh, that's a whole another.

You know, we have a non profit now, too.

No, you.

So, so, so, so, so, so tell me, tell me.

I saw this on Instagram.

Tell me about the nonprofit, because that's important.

Right?

So really quick, because of just life and all the things we've been through in the nine lives, is that we have a nonprofit segment of our business.

It's Haven by Ash.

It is to help create beautiful interior spaces for women and families in transition.

So we were able to bless a family over the holidays.

We supplied Christmas tree, Christmas presents, and a sofa.

And so we're really excited about what 2025 has in store for that segment as well and beyond.

But how do you reach us?

So, of course, www.ashinteriors and design.com.

and then our Instagram is Ash Interiors and Antiques.

That's Tom's little part in it.

And you can reach us there.

And then Haven also has a Instagram and a website as well, and that's haven by ash.org.

so that's us.

And we're in Maryland and we work everywhere.

We work everywhere, literally everywhere, traveling everywhere.

Okay.

It was lovely to talk to you.

I'm gonna see you in Tuscany soon, hopefully in High Point as well.

I'm not coming in the spring, but I will in the fall.

Okay.

So let's probably do the same.

Let's connect.

And to the listeners, I'm just.

What I want to say is in this life, you are blessed with little angels, and I fit.

I feel like you're one of my angels.

So thank you for being here today.

I hope you've enjoyed this episode of the Business of antiques.

I'm Tom McLark Haines, the Antiques diva, and I'm helping you make your passion for antiques profitable.

Talk to you next time.

Ciao.

That.