Jeremiah, chapter 31, verses 31, 34 in the Christian Standard Bible.

Look, the days are coming.

This is the Lord's declaration when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.

This one will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors on the day I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt.

My covenant that they broke, even though I am their master.

The Lord's declaration instead.

This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days.

The Lord's declaration.

I will put my teaching within them and write it on their hearts.

I will be their God and they will be my people.

No longer will one teach his neighbor or his brother, saying, know the Lord, for they will all know me, from the least to the greatest of them.

This is the Lord's declaration for I will forgive their iniquity and never again remember their sin.

In this section of the book of Jeremiah, the author has described the judgment that Israel will face and has faced at this point.

He then begins discussing how the Lord will bring salvation and restoration to his people.

And in this plan of restoration, the section of scripture we just read serves as an introduction to the new start in Israel's relationship with God and under what's called a new covenant.

Elder Parker, how might this passage about the new covenant help modern day believers see God in our own times?

Yeah, this is a beautiful passage.

What it is.

It's almost reminiscent to when Moses was on the mountain.

The first covenant was broken when the tablets of stone.

But when he went on the mount the second time, he asked God if it's okay if I could see you, let me see your glory.

And God told him that my glory is too enormous.

I can't show you all my glory.

But what he did come and he proclaimed the name of Yahweh to him, and in doing so, proclaiming that his face lit up.

And then he wrote down the commandments again and gave them to him.

And in the same way now the commandments are written in our hearts by the Holy Spirit.

Hebrews speaks of that.

Romans also speaks of that.

Paul speaks of that even when he says, the Gentiles show the new covenant show by the Holy Spirit when they do things in the law that are that without them having the law, it shows signs of the new covenant.

So the words of the covenant were written with the finger of God.

And it also shows that it is written through the Holy Spirit.

And instead now of it being written on tablets of stone, it's actually written in our hearts.

That's why David said, thy word have I hand in thy heart that I might not sin against thee.

And even Corinthians believe.

Second Corinthians says that oftentimes we read Moses with the veil, but the veil is done away with in the Messiah.

If we look to the Messiah, all things will be clear and all things could be made new.

Even Hebrews says he take away the first that he may establish the second.

Yeah, yeah.

It's good stuff.

Good stuff.

Hey, everybody.

Welcome back to the whole Church podcast.

We're doing stuff a little bit out of, out of order for those of you listening watching.

In the time that things get released.

This might not be the first episode after all of the series that we just did with the whole church up here, but this is the first one I get to record afterwards.

So I'm excited to be back to our normal format.

That normal intro music's kind of fun.

I miss it.

So we're gonna have a really good one.

And part of why I'm so excited is, you guys know we used to, like, early on in the show, we did a lot more interviewing people of different traditions who are like pastors of different churches that we weren't familiar with to.

To talk about, like, church unity, diversity in our faith and stuff.

We haven't done that in a while, but thanks to a friend at work, shout Out Courtney, I learned that she was part of a Messianic Jewish community in the Charlotte area.

And I was like, I want to know more about that.

And she connected me with her godfather, who is our guest today, Pastor Andre Parker.

Really excited to talk to you about Messianic Judaism and its place in the church, all that kind of stuff.

So welcome to the show, man.

Thanks so much.

Thank you for having me.

Yeah, I am.

No, it's my honor.

It's great.

So Elder Lonnie Parker or Pastor Andre?

Andre.

He pastors the Faith Temple of Hope.

And that is in Charlotte, North Carolina, correct?

Yes, sir.

Okay, awesome.

So we're gonna have fun getting into that.

You guys might notice I am without the co host with the most DJ Tabri Someone Blackwell.

Maybe it's because you can't have too much coolness in one podcast.

And he was like, man, Pastor Parker just looks.

He's just too awesome.

He had a bow out for this one.

But he'll be back next week, so I'm going to attempt to do his part.

So you guys know that I struggle with this stuff, but if you will, for tj, do it for tj, check out the Onazole podcast network website.

We have some of the other shows that we're affiliated with over there on there Be Living Water is the name of my other show that used to be dummy for theology.

So if you want to hear more from me, you can go over there.

TJ and I are both part of systematic ecology.

We have a new book readers, one that's coming up soon on the networks and maybe a comedy one too.

Be checking it out.

We got some new shows that are going to be part of the network soon.

And if you guys are on the website, you'll be the first ones to know about it and it's going to be cool.

Also, what else do I want to say?

Rate and review our show on podchaser or Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

Just something rate, review, comment so that TJ feels happy.

Yeah.

Now that out of the way, I have a favorite form of unity.

And it's a long, strong, important tradition of silliness on our show.

We like to start our show off with a silly question.

And I made this one kind of a, I guess, kind of an easier one because we got some big topics to talk about today.

So we're gonna start.

The silly question is just real simple and I'll let you decide if you want to answer first.

If you want me to answer first.

But the question is just what's better, a frog or a toad?

And why?

Correct me if I'm wrong.

I think a frog is more closer to water.

I hope I have that correct.

I think that's right.

I'm not 100% sure.

And I believe their legs are stronger.

So because they're close to the water and their legs are stronger, I would rather be a frog.

That seems more resourceful and they have a better way to get around.

So I think I'd rather be a frog than a toad.

Yeah, I feel that.

See, the funny thing is like, TJ studied biology in college, so he probably would actually be able to tell us way more about this question.

Yeah, for me, I'm going sected a frog in school one time.

Yeah.

Years ago.

Yeah, I don't.

I don't know if I ever did a frog.

We did a bunch of fish.

Because I thought I was gonna be a marine biologist.

Really?

Like my first year in college, I was like, let me take this class.

And then I went to the lab and I was like, this is not for me.

I think one of the coolest trips I've ever been to was the aquarium in Atlanta.

You ever been to the aquarium in Atlanta?

I think so.

It is amazing.

Yeah, man, I know.

There's a few.

Few aquariums I really like.

One of my favorites, really weirdly is like the North Carolina Aquarium that's like close to the Wilmington is like off the coast there.

Over there.

Just because they have an albino gator and it's so cool looking.

Where is that?

Ah, man, it's near, like, Wilmington.

And man, why can't I think of it Outer Banks kind of area, I guess.

Yeah, I would assume so.

Yeah.

Really cool.

I might have to check that out.

Yeah.

Albino gators are great.

Yes.

But I think as far as this.

Question goes, go up on them in the world.

Oh, yeah.

If they're not.

When you can't.

When they can't get to you on vibes alone, though.

Because I.

I just don't know enough to give you like a strong.

I think of toad.

I'm thinking like the, like, the more earthy ones I see in, like, my front yard and stuff.

Like.

Yeah, they're cool.

More dry.

They give me warts, but I still like them.

Like, I like.

I just don't want to touch them because I'm like, warts, you know?

Yeah.

And what's funny is I'm gonna say frogs, but I also don't want to touch frogs.

Cause the first frogs I think of are like the ones in the zoo where you have like the little poison dart frogs.

Yeah.

Like from the rainforest because they're so colorful.

I'm like, that looks awesome.

Frogs have a chance to become princess with the kiss.

So my daughter's.

One of our favorite movies was Princess and the Frog.

So you got to go with frogs.

Yeah.

Princess and the Frog is also a good reason.

Yeah, man.

Although, let me see, there was a.

There was a book I remember reading that I really liked, but I can't remember.

But it was.

It was about, like, toads and roadkill.

And it was really funny when I was in middle school.

I loved this one.

But anyway, this is not your favorite Anthony being podcast.

This is your favorite church unity podcast.

Move on a little bit.

One thing we have seen that really helps with church unity is for people to hear one another's story.

You know, sometimes we have a little hesitation about different people stuff and we hear stories like, oh, that kind of sounds like my story.

We need a little bit of connection there.

So would you mind sharing with us just kind of about your faith journey and how you got to where you are now?

Sure.

So I grew up as a Pentecostal Church, Apostolic Pentecostal Church, till I would say about 1718.

My aunt, she and my uncle, they had started, began to studying.

And my uncle saw a passage in Matthew 24 where Christ said, pray that your journey is not in the wind and all in the Sabbath.

And when he saw that, he inquired about the Sabbath, why would he say the Sabbath and all he always was told it was irrelevant, it was done away with.

And that made him study more and he got into it more and he decided that he would start keeping the Sabbath.

And in doing so he broke off, he was same way called Pentecostal Paw.

And he kind of broke off a little bit and got into that study.

And so when me and my, we were pretty close.

So she was In Buffalo, New York, I was in Yonkers, New York.

And that's pretty much about a 600 mile journey.

400, about 420 miles, six hours or so.

I grew up right outside of New York City in the Bronx.

Right outside of New York City, the Bronx, primarily in Yonkers, which is their part.

You can cross the street in Yonkers and go into the Bronx, the next street.

And so that's where I grew up in.

I just would ask my what made you change?

Why do you go to church this day and not that day?

He just said, we believe the Ten Commandments.

And it made so much sense to me.

And then in doing that, I would call my uncle, ask him number of questions about the Bible, about his faith and.

And then simultaneously I was in my own world trying to get out there in the streets, make money, you know, try to have like a philosopher rap career, you know, do a bunch of things like that.

And at the same time trying to get money, not in the most honest way.

So lo and behold, got about 19, had a bad car accident and I ended up.

That kind of woke me up.

My grandmother, who was so afraid that I would either get killed or arrested, begged and asked my aunt would she take me.

Because that's the only time she ever saw me really being dedicated into the Bible and praying is when I was inquiring about that faith.

And so she gave me a ticket, sent me up to Buffalo, New York with my aunt and uncle.

And there I studied under him for well over 20 years, was married, had two wonderful children, beautiful wife.

And from there we moved to Charlotte and started our own work here.

The city of Charlotte.

Yeah, it was actually my aunt that actually encouraged me to begin to work start.

I won't work here.

So she passed away a Few years back.

But that's what more like, got me into the faith where I'm in now.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

I'm not sure if Courtney told you, but I have a really bad accident back in 2016.

Okay.

Yeah, 2016.

Yeah.

That was kind of part of my own story, but almost like the flip side of that, where I was actually.

I was really involved in ministry at the time that it happened.

Um, and for me, I think the wake up call was really more of a, yeah, I can't do this on my own.

This isn't a me ministry.

You know, it's God ministry.

So it's kind of a.

It's interesting how stuff like that can really.

Yeah.

Reshape your whole course.

Yeah, my.

Because I was drifting away.

My grandmother, she actually said she was praying one Friday night, I went out with a bunch of friends and she was on her knees praying.

She asked God to shake me up.

And, you know.

Cause like I said, I was kind of drifting away a little bit.

And that's what I got in my accident.

So it was like, who we loves, he chased type thing.

Yeah, man.

Those accidents can really.

Yeah.

You carry some of that with you.

Yeah, without question.

Without question.

So for those who.

You know, I don't know a ton about it myself, but if someone had never heard of Messianic Judaism, how would you describe what it is as far as the tradition?

So Messianic Judaism, primarily a tradition is.

Or the belief is that we don't really celebrate Christmas or Easter, any of the days in Leviticus 23, Passover, the feast of unleavened bread, first, last day, the Feast of Shavuot, which is known primarily as Pentecost, but it's Shavuot, meaning it's the first day of this way sheaf.

And then it's seven weeks you celebrate.

And then 50 days later, you have another big holy day.

Even in Acts where it says the day of Pentecost was fully come.

Pentecost is just Greek for 50th.

And so in Leviticus 23, it's called the Feast of Weeks.

And it's the Day of the first Fruits.

So we celebrate that.

We celebrate the Feast of Trumpets.

We celebrate the feast, the Day of Atonement, not the Feast of Atonement, the Day of Atonement.

And of course, the Feast of Sukkot or Tabernacles.

All of those festivals we celebrate in anticipation of the Messiah.

And we anticipate the return of his kingdom to bring peace of shalom to all mankind.

So that's the tradition.

Of course we keep the Sabbath.

There are some variances there.

We, our particular assembly through our faith, we call the name of.

Well, we use the name of the Savior that we believe was given to Mary, which is Yeshua, which means Yahweh is salvation or Yahweh is salvation or Yahweh's salvation.

Because Matthew 21 says, Thou shall call his name Yahshua, for he shall save his people from their sins.

So that's what the name Yeshua means.

So that's the only name we use.

In any time you look in the Old Testament and you see capital L, O R D, that is, it's substituted for the name Yahweh.

Various forms of translations, whether the first or second.

Septuagint.

Septuagint, they used either they use the name Kurios or they wrote the Tetragrammaton in gold letters or in particular letters.

But eventually they felt that the name was so holy that it shouldn't be written down.

So they use the word curiosity or Lord.

That's why you have Lord in the standard Bible, Old Testament, you read Lord.

Or if they quote the Old Testament or if they quote the New Testament, they're quoting the Old Testament.

In the New Testament, you'll see Lord or God.

But we use the name Yahweh whenever we are addressing the Father.

Then there are various forms of messianic community, but primarily Messianic Judaism is where we believe that the one known as Christ or Yeshua, he is the Messiah.

He is the Messiah that is prophesied in the Old Covenant.

Zechariah, Isaiah, Joel, various Old Testament writings, the one that gave his life on the tree and sacrifice himself for us, he is the Messiah.

As opposed to, I would say, Orthodox Judaism, where the belief is that the Messiah has to come and restore Israel, which he will do.

We believe he will do that.

But we, most Orthodox Jews do not believe that the one that was sacrificed is the Messiah.

And so that's the difference between Messianic Judaism and just generally Judaism.

I think it is.

Some people say all, in essence, all Jews are Messianic.

It's just a matter of who you think the Messiah is.

Yeah, yeah.

So you say Yeshua for those, just for our listener's sake.

Most, I think, people who are grown up Christian would think of Jesus.

Jesus's name was actually Yeshua.

Right, right.

If you read the Bible in like original language.

Exactly, yes.

Just so they know exactly what we're talking about.

One of the more beautiful things too, when you're talking about, like, the names of God that I've read from Jewish thinkers that I really love.

Is that name you talk about, Yahweh, that's translated as Lord.

Yes, it's written.

The transliteration is like Y H, W H or something.

But, like a lot of old Hebrew teachings will say, it's.

It's.

The name of God is almost like a breath, because, you know, there's no verbs.

And I'm like, I just love like.

Like a breath.

Like, that's just.

Yeah, yeah, it is.

There's a lot of beauty in it.

There's a lot of beauty in it.

Yeah.

There's a scripture in Psalms that says he will cause his name to be remembered.

And whenever you say Hallelujah, you are.

You are saying the first part of his name, Yah.

Psalm 68.

4 says, Extol him by his name Yah.

So I know you remember in a lot of our holiness churches, we say it's the highest praise.

And this is why I said that, because it gives praise to the name Yah.

So when we say Hallelujah, it's all praises to Yah.

So, yeah, that is something.

It is a beautiful name.

When we do say it, we also are very particular.

Not that we don't think as many that his name was too holy to say.

And that's another thing we don't.

I know a lot of them from second to Judaism or some of the branches of Judaism often use the name Hashem because they believe that it's too holy to say.

So when they say Hashem, that means the name primarily Hebrew.

But again, we use the name Yahweh.

And not all Messianic Jews do that.

Some Messianic Jews still use the name Hashem, but we in particular use the name Yahweh.

And we use.

And we call the name again that was given from Mount Sinai, and we call the name of the Savior that was given from the angel to Mary, Yeshua, before any of the writings or any of the things that caused it to be translated to Jesus.

So one that many people know is Jesus as the Savior.

We call him by the name.

We use the name Yeshua because that's the name that Mary was given from the angel.

Yeah.

Yeah, I like that, too.

Yes, sir.

Okay.

So one of the things, like, in our culture at large, we hear the word Christianity, and, you know, most people, maybe even some of our listeners don't hear Judaism.

Like, certain assumptions, misconceptions, that kind of stuff kind of get thrown around.

A lot of people you know, hear Christian, think, oh, you must be conservative Republican, and you hate these people.

Or, you know, a lot of times, just anytime someone hears Jewish, a lot of times they immediately are just thinking of the Zionist Jews.

Yes.

What misconceptions do you think you face the most often?

And how do you address stuff like that?

Oh, wow.

It is probably when you say you are Jewish, they automatically assume that you don't believe in the Messiah also.

That's one.

Also, if you say you are Jewish, they often look at you.

You know, they look at your ethnicity as well.

You know, you black, Are you Jewish?

Or if you are Jewish and black, you're often associated with as.

As a Hebrew Israelite and which is a different faith primarily from ours.

I don't know if they consider themselves as, well, Messianic Jews.

So we don't consider ourselves as in that term or from that light.

They have various camps.

And so Messianic Judaism is not quite that.

But in our line of faith, we primarily believe.

That's probably three of the most misconceptions that we have.

One of those three.

You know, you could pick one of those three, and we hear those three primarily.

Yeah, yeah.

And I mean, I found it's interesting even.

Just like, even without incorporating Judaism into the title, a lot of Lutherans have misconceptions about Pentecostals.

We have misconceptions about Catholics, misconceptions about.

It's so interesting.

Even everyone who believes in Yeshua, we still have all kinds of stuff.

Like, we don't even know each other that well.

And then I'm over here talking about church unity, and I'm like, half of us don't even know anything.

Right, right, right.

100%.

100%.

Yeah.

I don't have you.

Do you feel like you.

You have deconstructed at all at any time?

I would say yes from like.

Like how you would typically define that.

Okay.

But also, I'm really careful to use that term, depending on who I'm talking to, because some people think, like, using that means, like, you don't believe anymore.

I'm like, no, it means, like, I just kind of reevaluated my blood.

Some of the stuff I was like, hey, yeah, this stuff is really solid.

And some stuff I was like, yes.

I'm not sure about that one.

100%.

100%.

That's where we use it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Without question, I've deconstructed probably more.

Probably more than once.

I mean, there's a scripture, I think Paul says, examine yourselves that you may be in the faith, and if not, you might be reprobate.

And I think everyone owes it to themselves to examine themselves that they are the faith.

And so I've done that on a number of occasions.

And that's why in doing that, you get insight from various faiths, get their point of view, and also you look at various things from a historical perspective as well, so that you can understand.

You can understand everyone's point of view.

And whether it's systematic theology, whether it's understanding, you know what we could.

What just various forms.

I don't want to go too on the deep end.

Yes, sir.

Yeah, no, that's.

It's interesting for me, a lot of it comes down just kind of like, humility, I guess, because I'm like, if I like just example.

Like, if I am like, oh, I totally agree with everything CS Lewis says.

In order to do that, I'm saying JRR Tolkien is wrong about some stuff.

I'm like, ooh, I don't know if I like that or like, if I'm going to say I totally agree with Augustine, I'm suddenly saying Orijen and Jarrah and Jerome.

Exactly.

Got some stuff wrong.

Exactly.

I don't like that either.

Like, I'm not so, like, I don't know.

I don't think I'm so smart to say any of these people were wrong.

So, like, I have to take it all with a little bit of humility.

Yeah.

And then what's.

It's the lion, Paul says, where he's like, I die to myself daily.

For a long time, I just thought I was like, oh, that means humility.

Now I'm like, maybe it means like, humility in a sense of like, I actually am willing to observe the stuff that I say I believe every day.

It takes a lot of studying.

I would say the main thing to do is to learn the Scripture.

And if you can learn.

If you can learn it or understand or read the Bible, read the scripture, try to understand as much as possible.

And then when you have that foundation, then you can kind of make sense of things.

In various past week is that many of the apostolic or the early.

Those considered to be the early church Fathers, they didn't agree on a lot of things.

And we also often use Polycarp and Clement of Rome as the main example.

They argued over Easter and Passover, so they didn't agree.

So you have to prove all things, as the scripture says, and hold fast to that, which is good.

Oh, yeah.

And just.

Yeah, humility.

It's a big thing.

Yes.

Sometimes we pass over a little too easily, I think.

Yes.

So you mentioned earlier a little bit of some of the holidays, some of how you observe the Sabbath, stuff like that.

Just kind of.

I don't know.

Something I'm curious about when it comes to stuff like the church sacraments, because from what I hear, for the most part, it sounds like one of the big differences is there's the church calendar that people, a lot of people, you have church, Easter, Pentecost, Epiphany Day, stuff like that.

And then the Hebrew calendar, I guess, would be the correct term of the feast that you mentioned.

The Feast of the Sevens, the Tabernacle, Yom Kippur, all that kind of stuff.

Yes, sir.

So you guys kind of follow more with the Hebrew calendar, but as far as stuff like the sacraments of baptism, communion, that kind of stuff, or just how services are run, what does that look like?

I see you use the term elder.

So I'm like, yeah, okay.

What does that look like?

Yeah.

So in terms of.

So baptism, we are baptism, we understand.

What we try to do is.

What we do is we look at foundation.

Where does it stem from primarily baptism or immersion or mikveh.

It comes from the term mikveh.

When the priests were ordained.

Moses literally watched the priests in front of the people.

Read how the.

One of the things that the priests.

That was done for the priests, when they were, for lack of a better term, being ordained and they were being presented to the people, they were washed.

So that's a type of mikveh.

It's a type of traditional Washington.

And then when you go throughout history, there was always a traditional wash of traditional mikveh.

Jeremiah mentions that when the scripture says, you have forgotten me, the fountain of living waters.

I don't know if you remember reading where Elijah, I believe, told the general, go and wash yourself in the pool, and then when you do, your leprosy will be healed.

That was a type of mikveh.

It's a traditional washing that a lot of our fathers did in Israel.

And so that is the understanding where John had.

When John was brought up in the Qumran community, and that was a community with the Dead Sea Scrolls, the recent discoveries of Dead Sea Scrolls, Qumran community.

What they were doing is they incorporated the mikveh tradition as well, because they considered themselves the priests or the original sons of Aaron.

And they continued that mikveh ritual.

They separated themselves from the temple in Jerusalem, and they wanted to make sure that they were cleansed and purged for the return of the Messiah.

They were anticipating the return of the Messiah.

Zechariah was part of that community.

That's why he was sacrificing at the time where he was sacrificing.

But he was out in the wilderness.

He wasn't in the temple when Gabriel came to him.

He was part of that community.

And so John or Yohan and the immersion, he began to have all Israel repent.

That's what he said.

The kingdom of God is at hand.

And he wanted people to begin to purify themselves, wash themselves as a way to rededicate or purify themselves for the return of the Messiah.

It's a cleansing ritual.

And so most.

I think it's been adopted as a ritual to repent or like a burial.

But the foundation of it was a cleansing ritual.

And I think Paul.

There's a scripture in Corinthians where Paul says, hey, why baptize the dead if there be no resurrection?

Because there was a tradition that once someone dies, you would cleanse them so that they can.

They would be cleansed in their death in anticipation of the age which is to come, or the resurrection.

So Paul said, hey, why do you mikvah?

Why do you wash or cleanse the dead if there be no resurrection?

So it's a cleansing ritual.

So we look at that.

So we still have the baptism.

We can do a traditional baptism where I, you know, I, you know, as a.

As a priest or a leader or pastor, I can baptize for the remission of sins the way the apostles did.

Or we can address it as a cleansing ritual, as a mikveh, as one wants to cleanse themselves from the past or cleanse themselves from.

And we make sure that we do it the way that the scriptures to do it, in living waters.

Meaning that it can't be like a dead, you know, sea or like a pool.

Right.

It has to be.

Or if it is a pool, it has to have a fountain going in and out.

You know, it can't be the same water or like a river or a lake or stream.

That's how the scriptures consider it.

Living water just can't be with things come there.

Just still.

That's a really cool, like, physical element to it.

I like that.

Yes, sir.

Yeah.

What about communion?

I know a lot of churches, like, that's like the big two for them is like baptism communion.

Yeah.

So our communion is the Passover.

Okay.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Yeah.

We don't do it every week.

Growing up In a traditional Pentecostal setting, we would do it once a month.

Of course, you did it pretty much, especially around Easter time.

I know that in the Catholic churches, it's done pretty much every time you go.

Yeah.

Now, mega churches, I don't know if you've ever been a megachurch, they hand out the little pieces of crackers and a little bottle.

I don't know if it's wine or grape juice.

They shipped it out during COVID Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

But our.

We do it the way it was always done in from Exodus, when the Passover was kept.

But what Yeshua did, it was always celebrated in Yisrael, as it was somewhat like a thanksgiving where it's.

Your liberty is celebrated.

It's celebrated.

We celebrate.

When we left Egypt, we were no longer slaves or bond men or bond women.

But when Yeshua kept it, he broke the normal tradition.

And when he broke the bread, he said, this is my body now, which was broken for you.

And he also mentioned, this is the new covenant.

He said, I'm giving to you the new covenant.

And then he also said that this is my blood, which was shed for you.

And in John, he made a statement that, hey, if any man eat my flesh and drink my blood, if you don't do that, you'll have no part of me.

And a lot of his disciples backed away.

Peter was the only one saying, hey, we're not going to back away.

But that was a very strange saying.

Many people thought that he was getting into cannibalism, but he was actually showing he was the lamb that was slain.

And so he kind of took the tradition from just in every.

Not every day but the annual Passover, where a lamb was eating to celebrate the firstborn dying in Egypt.

Now he was telling his apostles, this is for this is now me.

So now whenever you keep Passover, you keep Passover in remembrance of me and not in remembrance of leaving Egypt.

And so that's part of that new covenant.

He said, this is the new covenant which.

And this is the blood of the covenant.

And then in Corinthians, Paul says, hey, that which I received from the Messiah, I'm giving the same to you.

The night that he was betrayed, he took bread and said, this is my body which was given unto you.

And this is also, in the same way, he took wine and gave thanks over the cup.

And Christ said, as often as you do.

It didn't say, do it often.

So what we do in that sense is once a year when we take the Passover, that's our Way to show our dedication.

That's our way of showing that we are taking part of the death of Christ, that we may take part in his resurrection.

Yeah.

I've always wanted to participate in a Passover meal, so at some point, I'm gonna go hang out with you guys.

Yeah, man.

So, okay, this is a little bit of a sidebar, just because I'm curious, because you mentioned some different church fathers and stuff as far as creeds, like the Apostles Creed, Nicene Creed.

Do you guys ever cite that, or do you recognize those or.

Yeah, well, I myself don't reason why I don't recognize that, but not the creed stuff like, verbatim.

Because everything we do is we try to do it from the scripture.

Not that the creed isn't from the scripture, but if it lines up a scripture.

So I would.

What we do is we quote the Sheema and the Commandments every week.

Okay.

Yeah.

So hero, Israel, Yahweh, our God is one, and we quote that and then we quote the Ten Commandments.

That's something we do every week.

Yeah.

But the creed itself, verbatim, we don't quote that.

Everything we do is we.

Not.

Again, not that the creed is aligned in the Scripture, but the creed is something that was developed by some of the church fathers also was.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

It was pretty much established in Nicene.

And too often people credit Constantine and Nicene with the development of the Christian faith.

They even think that he developed the Bible and the Scriptures, but the Scriptures and the Codex, that all was developed hundreds of years, way before Constantine.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, interesting.

So we do believe in the apostles themselves.

You know, some people don't believe in the apostles itself, but we believe the apostles is the foundation of the church primarily.

I think Christ said that when I return, you'll be with me on thrones, judging the 12 tribes of Israel.

Yeah.

Okay, cool.

Well, I had, man, just a couple more theology stuff.

And I could probably talk forever, just asking questions, trying to learn.

My brain's like.

I'm so curious when it comes to, like, church unity stuff.

There's a couple stuff that I thought you might be able to offer a unique perspective on and just kind of interesting to me a lot of times, especially in more conservative Christian spaces.

I'll say one of the areas of debates is kind of over this, like, dispensationalism or covenant theology.

I don't know if you've ever heard any of this.

The Church is now the people of God instead of Israel or replaced with the covenant or like the covenant has changed, so now it doesn't just include Israel.

Or sometimes people say Israel does still have a special place.

There's all kind of different views on this.

How do you speak into this?

I primarily just look to scripture to see what the scripture says.

Paul's writing.

I don't know if you ever read in Second Peter where it mentions Paul's writings sometimes can be hard to be understood.

Two things that we try to focus on, what we offer teachers, is context and content and the difference between the two.

And so that's what we try to understand when we look at dispensationalism.

I know what is taught and I know what is taught in terms of the doctrine of it, the doctrine of dispensation, the dispensation of grace.

But what I do is separate myself from the teaching of it.

And look, what does the Scripture say about it and what does it mean?

How is grace dispensed?

How is grace administered?

And there's a scripture in Hebrews that says that in Sundry times, Hebrews 1 In diverse manners, God spoke to us through the prophets.

But now in these last days, he has spoken to us by his Son.

And so when you read there's a scripture where Paul says the dispensation of grace, how is grace now dispensed?

How is it administered?

It's like the New Covenant.

How was the New Covenant administered?

Different than the first Covenant.

The difference is it is not written on Tabitha Stone.

It's written on your heart.

It doesn't change from scripture standpoint.

It doesn't change what is written.

It is just administered a different way.

And so we look at it from the context of scripture and try to separate it from what people have taught and what does the scripture say about it?

And let's try not to.

Let's not look at what has been taught or indoctrinated.

Let's find out what the scripture says and let's hold the doctrine of the Scripture and not.

Let's make the.

Let's make the doctrine.

Let's make the scripture the doctrine and not make the doctrine script fit scripture, I guess, for lack of a better term.

So, yeah, just keeping it as close to the Scriptures themselves.

Yes.

Okay.

The other one I was curious about, and this is what I just thought of today, really.

But because, you know, I have a friend who's a Southern Baptist and he does this thing and I was like, oh, actually, this is interesting.

So a lot of people, especially, you know, your evangelical Christians, who especially the Ones who believe in like sola scriptura or biblical inerrancy.

That kind of stuff.

Yes.

In order, from, from my perspective, it feels like in order to justify ignoring some stuff.

Yes.

When it comes to like Torah law, they, they divide it up into like there's tradition law, priestly law, and moral laws, and we only have to follow the moral laws.

It's kind of like the idea.

Right.

And I'm probably straw manning this and making it a terrible argument.

Like that's just, this is how I perceive what they're saying.

Yeah.

How do you respond to stuff like that where they like dividing it up and trying to decide which ones we still follow.

Yeah.

So what I often do is when I'm having those conversations is I say, hey, let's go to the scripture and let's try to understand what you're saying.

And very few people can go to the scripture and really say, okay, this is moral law, this is law you don't have to keep, and this is law you have to keep.

There's a scripture in Romans, New Testament, Paul says, by faith we establish the law.

And so I often have those conversations, but I don't like to have those conversations outside of scripture.

And like when we mentioned replacement theology is that the church is now taking the place of Israel.

And Paul says in Rome was that God has not cast away his people, which he foreknews.

Matter of fact, he said, God forbid.

And there are scriptures in Psalms that said, if I forget thee, O Jerusalem, may my left hand or my right hand forget its cunningness.

So Paul says on a number of occasions, God has not cast away his people whom he foreknew.

If anything, he is promoting them to jealousy.

And I think what happens is we don't know or we don't, we're not taught the purpose of the church.

First, what is the church number one and what is the purpose of it?

What is the ministry of reconciliation?

What does it mean to reconcile the world or the age?

What does it mean to reconcile the age back to God?

What does it mean when Revelation says, hey, I saw thrones and those that were beheaded were given to.

To them?

Or if, if Israel was replaced?

Why did Christ tell the apostles, hey, you are going to be with me on 12 Thrones, judging the 12 tribes of Israel.

What does that mean?

Now I do understand.

I know a lot of people quote the scripture that the kingdom of God has been taken from you and given to a nation that bear more fruits.

But what does that mean?

Because Peter said, you are a holy People, a peculiar people, a holy nation.

So what does that mean?

And that letter was written to the 12 tribes scattered.

So what is the purpose of the church?

Is it to replace Israel or is it to help save Israel?

And that's some of the questions that we have to ask that we have to go to Scripture for.

And we can't use time and place or recency bias to determine those things.

So many years we have weaponized the Bible, and we're still doing it.

We weaponized the Bible to suit our own agenda, and that has been going on for centuries.

Yeah, yeah, well, so with that freaking brain a little bit, and we'll start moving.

No, take your time.

Acts 15.

I think they're trying to figure out, these new Christians, should they do circumcision, what laws do they need to follow?

And they're like, okay, we're going to come up with these three.

And it's like abstain from sexual immorality, food offered to idols, I think, and the blood, something like that.

A lot of people interpret that as like, these are the only things we need to follow now.

Right.

How do you.

How do you deal with that?

If anyone is familiar with understanding Judaism, they have what's called the Noahide laws.

The Noahide laws are what laws that were given to Noah when he came off the ark.

And there's a rabbinical teaching that says, hey, every man and every woman are to follow the Noahide laws.

The rabbinical teaching states that the law and the Torah was given to the Jews.

However, the Noah laws were given to all mankind to follow.

And if anyone was a proselyte, even Christ speaks of proselytes.

How a lot of the Pharisees would go and they would attempt to convert someone to Judaism, which was normal.

It was more common than what people believe.

Even in Esther, there was a mass group of people that came over to the Jewish faith after the deliverance of Haman and of Esther.

So there was a mixed multitude that came out.

The rabbinical traditions called it the Edav rev, or the mixed multitude that came out with Yisrael.

So there was something called the Noahite laws.

And the rabbis, the rabbinical tradition, the Mishnah, still teaches it today.

What are the Noah high laws?

What are the things that we give for anyone that wants to come over?

If a Gentile wants to come over and take part in the promise of Abraham, what should they do?

Do we have to circumcise them?

And those were some of the Noahite laws.

And so what the apostles did, understanding that tradition, they Told them, hey, let them follow the Noahide laws.

But it did not absolve them in the Sabbath.

It did not absolve them in any of the holy days or the festivals.

And so all that scripture is in Acts 15 was it was mimicking the Noahite laws that the rabbinical tradition of the rabbis did when the proselytes were converted.

So, yeah, it wasn't anything new.

Just like, again, Pentecost, most people think that, hey, when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were just hanging out for 50 days, but they were actually keeping the feast of weeks for 49 days.

This is something that Leviticus tells us to do.

Seven Sabbaths shall you number.

And when seven Sabbaths are complete, you shall have a.

A holy day.

And that 50th day.

It's like the year Jubilee.

There's a part in Romans where Paul says, hey, if the root is holy, then the lump is holy.

And when he says the root is holy, then the lump is holy.

When he says the root, that are the two wave loaves that the priest brought out on the 50th day, and those were the first fruits.

And so Paul says, hey, if the root is holy, meaning if that those two loaves of bread which represented something that was holy or presented, or was presented toward the priests, then what it came from was holy.

And it just means that if the church is considered holy, you have to consider Israel holy, and the church has to come from Israel, or would it be considered holy if it comes from Israel?

Even when it says, how can they hear without a preacher?

And how can they hear here unless he be sent?

If you follow that chapter in its entire context and not just take that part out, it's asking, how can anyone hear unless someone come from Yisrael because the covenant was given to them.

I think Paul said that what is the advantage that a Jew has?

And, well, because they were given the Scriptures.

So that's the advantage.

And if we are not given the Scriptures, even if a Jew, if Jew does not operate under the Scriptures, there's no difference in them than any other nation.

So I guess that's a lot.

I don't.

Acts 15, primarily, that's those Noah laws based on the Right.

It's the Noahide laws from the Rabbinic tradition.

It wasn't anything new.

They just said, hey, what do we do?

Because they have the Holy Spirit, we heard them speaking our language, and so what do we do going forward?

And if you read further, they say that Moses is read every week and meaning every Sabbath.

So they were already going to synagogue.

They were already going to worship already, I think.

Who was it?

The centurion, which Christ healed.

Yeah.

They said, hey, man, he gives to our people, and he gives to our temple.

He's a righteous man.

And even the first Gentiles that came to Peter and he had the dream.

So oftentimes people go to that scripture, but it lacks context.

And that's why something that we always try to focus on is content and context.

What is the content?

What is it saying?

But what's the context behind it?

What is the setting of it?

And that gives us clarity and understanding.

Yeah, no, that's real interesting.

It's.

I have to do more of a study later.

Okay.

Yeah, definitely.

Yeah.

Yeah, you're good.

Yeah.

Okay.

So sorry, just before a little bit, I know you're.

You're getting your light.

There we go.

But.

Oh, you're good.

So, you know, our show primarily focuses on what we call Christian unity or church unity.

Yeah.

I'm curious as far as, like, how do you see your faith community here in Charlotte in light of, like, the whole of everyone who's trying to follow after God, you know, especially, you know.

You know, some churches, obviously are going to quote the Creed instead of the Shema.

And then, you know, you have churches who are going to Jesus or Yeshua or dispensational, you know, all these ideas.

And yet what Jesus prayed about his followers, he asked God that they be one as he and Father are one.

So it's kind of like, what?

Yeah.

So how would you say you view your community in light of, like, the whole of the faith?

I guess when you say the whole faith, you mean in terms of.

I'm trying to be those who are attempting to follow Jagan, because I know that's going to follow especially for yourself, both Jews and Christians.

I'm particularly interested in those who follow Yeshua as God.

But.

Yeah.

Yes, sir.

So there's a scripture in Acts where Paul mentioned that when he met with some of the Jews in Rome when he was in prison, and they said, hey, we want to hear what you have to say.

Because concerning this sex, everybody speaks bad of it.

He was spoken of all the time.

And so in terms of unity, that was something that Paul always endeavored for.

He said, endeavor to keep the unity of the faith.

That was something that you mentioned in Acts 15.

Where did that come from?

Oftentimes people think that Paul had his own theology.

And Paul was clueless because the Jews came to him and said, hey, these guys got to be circumcised.

And Paul didn't have an answer.

He had no answer.

He didn't develop this doctrine even in Galatians.

He said, hey, when I first heard, I had to go to James and I went to Peter to confirm what I believe.

Hey, am I preaching right?

I don't want my preaching to be in vain.

So in Acts, Acts 15, or I think Acts 14, when they came to him, they said, hey, they have to be circumcised.

Paul and Barnabas said, we don't know.

And they went to Jerusalem and that's when they had the council together between the apostles and the brother James was there.

James was actually, he was the head of the community in Jerusalem.

And also James is actually credited to be the new head of the Qumran community after Yeshua was resurrected.

Yeah, so he had a pretty big role there.

And so he asked them, what do we do?

And that's when Peter came and said, hey, let me tell you my experience.

And then once Paul received that doctrine from the 12, and the scripture goes on to say, they gave him the right hand of fellowship, meaning they pretty much gave what's called Shemikah, which means the laying on of the hands, what many people call apostolic succession.

That started from Moses.

When Moses had the Sanhedrin and he would pray for, he laid hands on them.

That's why Timothy has told stir up the gift that was in you, which was laid on by your mother and by her grandmother before then.

But they really gave Paul, they anointed him, they allowed him to preach to the Gentiles, preach their message, don't preach your own doctrine, don't preach, you know what you want, you know, preach what you have heard here, those things.

And he even told Timothy, you know, give these to sound men, you know, that can understand the faith.

And so in understanding the faith, so unity was always something that was strived for.

What I often say is that we don't have unfortunately the apostles here, we don't have Moses here.

All we have is what was left on record.

And people paid a great deal.

When you study how, whether it's the Codex or Codex Sinaiticus or when you study all of the ancient writings, whether it be the Masoretic text or whether it be the scroll of Qumran, whether it just be the manuscripts that so many people wrote copied so that we can have our scriptures today, the enormous price that was paid, that's really the only thing that we have to know.

And so unity begins with the scriptures.

Unity begins with the Word.

And I think if we all can agree not to use, you know, that that term was solo scriptos.

You know, solo scriptoris.

Let the word be the authority.

And when I say the Word, that's the canon of scripture that we have.

Not just the old, not just the new, but also the old.

Because Peter said that the men of old who had the Holy Spirit, they prophesied of the grace that should come to you.

We are built on the foundation of the apostles.

Excuse me, Apostles were built on the foundation of the prophets and Christ Yeshua being the cornerstone.

So unity begins with that understanding and that commitment to Scripture.

That's why in that same prayer, when Christ asks for un, he also said, sanctify them by thy word, and thy word is truth.

It was when he said, father, let them be one as we are one.

And he mentioned that, hey, sanctify them by thy word.

Thy word is true.

And that is primarily the determining factor in unity.

There has to be.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Back to, I guess you say back to the basics.

Yes, sir.

Yeah, the foundation there.

Okay, cool.

Well, so before moving on, is there anything that maybe you wish we would have asked that I hadn't got to, or that you just think maybe people would be interested to know about you or your church?

No, no, I think, you know, I think what we try to do, our one thing that we say as a mission statement is that we want to develop a community or develop a culture where someone can come to learn and develop character for the age which is to come.

There is, you know, I think eschatology is.

What do you say about it?

You know, it's such a broad subject and it's so controversial in so many different ways.

Various people have very different eschatological doctrines and theories, but primarily we want to exercise.

We want to have an environment to create an environment based on the scripture that one can develop character for that age which is to come.

You know, Peter said, the age wherein dwells righteousness.

Good stuff, good stuff like that.

I like that.

So now we're gonna.

We're gonna get to kind of back to the basics of the show, I guess.

Yes, sir.

We always like to ask everybody before we do our wrap up stuff, if you had to provide just a single tangible action, something practical, that would help better engender unity amongst our faiths.

What is one practical thing listeners could go do right this second?

This would be tough.

But in Jeremiah 17, Yahweh had told Yisrael, he said, hey, do this for me.

Try keeping my Sabbath.

He said, yeah, dedicate yourself to that.

He said, just give me one day a week.

Dedicate yourself to that.

And if you could do that, you'll have kings come here.

You won't go away to bondage.

Your temple will remain.

Just give me that.

Give me that dedication.

And what I would ask if listeners to do and, you know, let every man be persuaded in his own mind.

And I don't want to convert or indoctrinate someone or put a mandate on it, but if a listener could commit to keeping the Sabbath, what is that about?

What does it mean?

And the reason why I say that is because in Scripture, the Sabbath is not buying, it's not selling, it's taking one day, that last day of the week.

You work six days, in the seventh day, you commit to God and you cast all your cares from.

Not that you can live any kind of way any other day.

You know, it doesn't mean you can go out, kill still and rob.

Yeah, you know, six days a week, hopefully.

Obviously.

Yeah, right.

But I think if someone can say, hey, I'm going to try this, I'm going to absolve myself from any of my worldly activities.

And I'm going to come together, whether it be, if you have a group come together, let's study.

Let's take this time from sun up to sundown.

And I want to take this period, and I'm going to give this time totally to God, and I want to study His Word and see if you could gain insight, separate yourself from any worldly commitments and make a commitment to Him.

That would be my plea to.

To any man or woman to do that.

That would be my wish.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

So what do you think would happen?

Like, what would be the repercussions in the world around us if everyone did that, Just started taking the Sabbath.

Well, I know that it would gender a deep respect for the Creator also it would allow you to remember him, because six days he created heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested and ceased from all his work.

And I think he rules four, says that we cease from our works even the way he did from his.

And so in the keeping of the Sabbath, Scripture says, verily truly, my Sabbath you shall keep.

It's a sign.

It doesn't mean it's like a billboard.

It's a miracle because he that was neither tired nor weary rested and he was refreshed.

And what it is, it is a spiritual refreshing.

It's not a man's rest.

It's not.

God needed you to get your Rest.

It is a spiritual refreshing.

It's a spiritual restoration.

And so committing to that, it refreshes your inner man.

It renews your inner man.

Because what you are saying is that I need you, God.

I cannot make it on my own.

I can't make it on my own.

I have.

I don't have the means to do it.

All my righteousness is, is filthy rags.

And what that does.

And it does what the scripture says.

He will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth.

It doesn't mean that, you know, you'll be rich or, or, you know, but you will be able to rise above any situation that you face because you are committing to God.

Yeah.

One might say hallelujah.

Yes, sir.

Awesome.

Well, the final thing we do before we wrap up and finish our show, just our God moment segment.

Would you like to ask everybody to share a moment they saw God in recently?

Whether it's blessing, challenge, whatever.

GJ likes to make me go first so that everyone has time to think.

So I guess I'll keep that.

I mean, it's been a wild few weeks.

It's hard to really pick one, but I'm gonna do a work related one.

Not my direct boss, but like, whoa.

I say higher ups, kind of higher up in the company.

I had to come by the store that I work at, had to pick up some stuff, and it was interesting.

It was that he doesn't usually work kind of like the Sabbath, but he, he was kind of venting to me because you had to pick stuff up, you had to go work another story to do this stuff.

And it's just one of those.

Were like so often when, when I see this individual, I'm like, we got to work hard.

We got everything in place, you know, because you kind of treat him a little bit different, like, like, oh, he's, he's important.

Yeah.

And then like he's been in me and I'm like, oh, wait, that's right.

We're.

We're all kind of just human.

Yeah.

At the end of the day, we, I guess we all need a Sabbath.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Maybe a challenge thing.

Yeah.

Scripture says the Sabbath was made for man, you know, not man for the Sabbath.

What about you?

You have a moment you've seen God in recently?

I'm sorry, do you have a moment that you'd like to share that you've seen God in recently?

Oh, wow.

I wish I could pinpoint a sickle.

Something recent.

Or just whenever, whatever feels right.

You know, so not to beat a dead horse.

It's really gonna sound like beating a dead horse.

Every Sabbath.

I see him so clear.

Yeah, because you abide.

You abide in his will.

And you know you are keeping his word.

You're doing what is written not just in old, but in new.

In Hebrews 4, there remaineth a rest for the people of God.

And when you look at that Greek word, that word, it doesn't.

It means the.

It means the keeping of the Sabbath.

There's a Rabbi Byers, he says that every Sabbath is.

You are walking into Eternity for 24 hours.

So it is like every week I'm able to.

To see him, see God in him, because we cease from all our works.

I think Hebrews 11 says, by faith, Moses kept the Passover he endured by seeing him, who is invisible and unlike.

And I think that's to highlight what we said initially is that the difference between Messianic Judaism and a Messianic believer is that when we see the Passover and when we see unleavened bread, and when we see the feast of weeks, and when we see the feast of Trumpets, we see God in all of them, and we see his will.

He was sacrificed for us in Passover.

He was the lamb that was slain in his resurrection.

He was.

The Scripture says he died for our sins, but he was raised for our justification.

His resurrection makes us right and complete.

His Holy Spirit empowers us, that we can develop character, that we can.

And the Holy Spirit is the down payment.

I think Paul calls it the earnest of the inheritance, the down payment of eternal life.

And then the Feast of Trumpets, it is the.

It alerts us and it makes us aware that his kingdom is coming.

And his kingdom shall have no end.

And then you have the Yom Kippur, the Day of atonement.

It shows that his kingdom will come and that he is again the lame that was slain and that we have an audience into the most holy place.

Hebrews says a new and more perfect way.

Let us go into the holiness of all having a new and more perfect way, which is his veil, that is his flesh.

Now having access.

We have not a high priest.

Paul's Hebrew says some people debate whether it's Paul or not, But Hebrews says we have not a high priest that cannot be touched with the feelings of our infirmities.

But in all points he was tempted, as we are, but yet without sin.

Therefore, let us go boldly into the throne of grace, that we may find help and.

And grace in the time of need.

That's Yom Kippur.

That's the day of Atonement.

In the feast of Tabernacle, we see his kingdom which is to come where there is no end.

So, and of course, every Sabbath, those are holy days.

So that's what we see him in.

All also every week we have that opportunity not just to have the church service which we have and we love and we have the singing and the preaching and the ministry, but the community itself.

But we all have ceased from our works and we come together because we have all have made that commitment.

We're ceasing from our work and we are letting God be our provider, Yahweh himself.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Beautiful stuff, beautiful stuff.

I love it.

I love it, man.

Well, listeners, thank you guys so much for tuning in.

Thank you, Elder Parker, for your time with us.

It's an honor.

I really appreciate, appreciate you having me.

Thank you so much.

No, I appreciate you for, for joining us.

Yeah.

And again, listeners, consider sharing with friend, enemy, cousin, any of those things that TJ wants you to do, do them.

If you're listening to our show on Spotify, you can go ahead and you can actually leave a one time tip on the player or on the website there.

So if you want to support us, but you're not really into like the subscriptions, that kind of stuff or like Patreon, you just leave a one time tip there if you wanted to.

Again, I mentioned some of the other shows on podcast network.

I'll mention again.

Well, actually let me mention the homily that's my pastor's sermons.

If you want to hear some of Pastor Will preaching, you do that there.

We also have my seminary Life on there with Brandon Knight talking about stuff that he should have learned in seminary Christian.

Ashley does let nothing move you.

So if you like all the scripture talk, that's his whole gig.

So check that show out too.

We hope you enjoyed this show.

Next week we're gonna be talking with Kendall Vanderslice about her book Bake and the church's history with bread and some recipes that we tried from her book.

So it's gonna be a lot of fun.

After that, we're gonna have Brandon Robertson on to discuss his work as a progressive Christian author, pastor and Bible scholar.

Then after that, we will have on Dr.

Bruce Epperly to discuss charismatic movements and the need for church to both believe in the power of the spirit and also the accepting love of God.

Finally, at the end of season one, Francis Chan will be on maybe, perhaps if someone tells him or invites him or, or something because we won't yeah.

Till next time.