Foreign.

And welcome to the Pat Accounting Podcast with me, your host, Vicki Clark.

I'm going to help you get to grips with your finances, save you lots of money and take the stress out of doing your tax return.

So let's get going.

Welcome, everybody, to this week's Wednesday lunchtime chat.

As you can see, I'm not with Lee today, but I have got even better.

Fabulous guest.

The lovely Rachel Bean has agreed to join us today out of her busy schedule to come and talk to everyone about the importance of dog first aid and everything around that.

Any questions you guys have got for Rachel during this and please just pop them in the comments and we will try and answer them as we go.

And then obviously, if there's anything else we can ask afterwards, if there's anyone, we'll just dive right in that maybe doesn't know who you are, because I know a lot of people in the group do, because people have already commented that they've done your courses, so.

Which is a good sign.

But just in case no one knows who you are, who's listening?

Do you want to just give a brief background of what you do, what you've done in the past and what it is that you're doing now?

Yeah, sure.

Well, I actually started quite a while ago now my professional career with dogs, with the dogs.

So I was an assistant kennel manager.

So that was between 1994 and 96.

It was actually a brand new kennel.

So by the time we got to full capacity of about 150 dogs, I was, I was dealing this with dogs and just staffing issues and ordering and that kind of thing.

So I just applied 100 mile radio to start that nurse training course and that, that brought me down from Durham, from Banner Castle, down to near Manchester.

So I've been down ever since, really.

So 27 years, I went straight into practice three years to qualify as a vet nurse.

So I got on the Royal College of Veterinary surgeons register in 2001 and then, yeah, never left practice.

I'm still in practice, I do two days now.

I'll do a little bit more, a little bit less.

Depends how busy they are and depends if they've got staff off, etc.

Yeah, work full time through Covid, which is quite lucky actually, because they needed like two work bubbles, so that was quite handy.

But yeah, the rest of the time I've just, I've kind of used my RVN degree, if you like, as to diversify.

I mean, there's a root thread, you know, sort of owner education, responsible dog Ownership and yeah, mostly what I do now is around canine first aid.

So that actually started a good 20 years ago.

RSPCA branch just asked me to do some staff training, just some bandaging techniques and then another branch asked me and I thought.

I was going to say I've gotten onto something here.

That's how it started.

And it just snowballed to the point now where we've now got.

Well four years ago now actually.

Can't believe how fast it's gone.

We had the first real qualification in canine first aid through IPet Network, which is a training body that.

That actually run grooming courses and things like that.

Now the really wants to standardize and regulate courses.

So a few of the companies have kind of jumped on the bandwagon now, which is fine, but we were the first and I helped co write it.

So I'm one of the writers and I'm one of their kind of main people that sort of top and tail any of their veterinary related courses, really.

Yeah.

So that's where we are at the moment.

Yeah.

And also you do stuff around the world as well as we discussed before we came on.

Yeah, yeah.

So that started 12 years ago.

One of my best friends is a Hungarian vet nurse and she did some work in the uk, but because she's got a Hungarian veterinarian degree, they're all college.

You're limited to what you can do.

So she got a bit bored basically.

So she went and worked for the Soy Dog foundation in Thailand.

She's just left actually, 14 years.

So three or four years in she said, yo, you got to come over.

You got to come over and kind of put it off and put it off.

And then when I got there I was like, this is amazing, the country's amazing.

And I had a really good time and like within weeks I was back for another two weeks and it just kind of snowballed from there really that then I started helping at the smaller shelters around Thailand and also in India as well.

So I've got a really good connection now with Jai Dog Rescue, which is about two hours of Bangkok.

And in fact this morning asked me to be a trustee.

So we're getting.

Yeah.

And they've got quite a bizarre or different story.

The person that owns the land is actually James Palumbo who owns Ministry of Sound.

His business partner is Ty.

So they really wanted to do something and they've put the manager in there, which is Mike who's the ex head of IT at Ministry of Sound.

So he's the manager and yeah, so they've got a big contract with Battersea.

They're supported very well by Battersea, your hospital and.

Yeah, so I'm going back over.

Yeah, yeah.

If you need an accountant to come with you for whatever reason, like just to hold you receipts and things.

Yeah.

If you need, if you need.

I'm just throwing it out there.

If you need someone to come with you, then I'll make myself free.

If you need a little travel buddy to come to Thailand with you, I'll be there.

No idea about dog first aid, but I can do something.

Well, you know, the dogs are amazing.

You can, you can spend time with the dogs, you know, Definitely.

Do they have loads of different breeds there or do they tend to have.

Lots of these indigenous.

Indigenous breeds or crossbreeds or.

The problem is, is quite a lot of domestic dogs sort of mingled now.

So it's quite, I wouldn't say it's rare but it's, it's less likely to see a, a true indigenous breed.

But they are out there like the, the Thai bank cow and there is the ridgeback.

Thai Ridgeback and things like that.

Yeah, yeah, interesting.

Fabulous.

Yeah, cool.

Thank you for that.

I know one of the, the questions we were, we were discussing before, like I might as well just dive right into the controversy if I do love a good rant on the podcast is about where people find, you know, if they were, you know, if a dog groomer or a dog trainer wants to say, right, I'm going to do, I want to do my qualifications and dog first aid.

How do they find the right people and like the right route to go down?

Because as we know, as we discussed before we came live, there's some not so good ones out there that people tend to go to and how do they find the right ones and what should they look for?

Yeah, I think probably the weakest ones are ones that are online and they're just like a quiz.

You know, you answer ten really, really simple questions that a five year old could answer.

You cannot as a pet professional then go and call yourself canine first aid qualified.

It's just not enough.

Yeah, there's some good online ones.

I mean, I've got an online one but it's really comprehensive.

But it is advertised at the beginning that it is designed as either a refresher or for really keen dog owners.

Because I think the more dog owners we get TR in basic first aid, just like people, it's essential.

All right.

So at that level I don't think it matters that it's basic that it's one or two hours.

But the critical thing I think is it's accurate.

There's a lot of courses out there that are just so inaccurate.

Looks like they've been made by AI and all that kind of thing.

You know, they're not accurate.

Then you've got your in person ones.

There's in person ones that are quite short or two and a half, three hours.

And they're really, really basic.

Again, really good for pet.

For pet owners.

For dog owners.

I did one on Monday night for a local dog club.

It was a client evening.

We did two hours on the top 10 first aid scenarios for dog owners.

Simple, basic, straightforward.

But if you are a pet professional.

Now, somebody asked me to define a pet professional last week when I was on a podcast.

It's just a word that I jumped to pet professional.

I don't think there is a definition, but what I'm talking about is you.

Dog groomers, dog walkers, dog sitters, breeders, vet physios, canine myotherapists, hydrotherapists.

That's what I'm talking about.

Looking after people's dogs.

Doggy daycare staff.

You're looking after 30, 40 dogs.

Doing a very basic tick box Exercise is not enough to prepare you for a real emergency.

So I think you've really got to research.

The tutor has.

The tutor that's teaching.

You actually had real experience with emergency situations.

Now, I've been in the past of being very elitist and saying, you cannot just say that vets or vet nurses should be the only tutors.

So I've kind of relented a little bit on that because there are people that are experienced but never worked in a vet.

But it doesn't mean to say that.

If you're choosing a course, ask them what their experience is.

One simple question will do it.

How many times have you done CPR for real?

And that will give you an answer because I think if you're teaching at that level, you have to have some experience of these emergency situations.

Knowing what it feels like, knowing how quick you've got to act and what you have to do in those initial stages.

I'm finding at the moment there's lots of practitioners out there, there's lots of tutors, but they haven't got this real experience.

And this is one of the reasons why I go abro, even after 27 years as a vet nurse.

Yes, I've seen.

Oh, yes, I've dealt with these things multiple times.

But going abroad and seeing different situations, especially in Asia, seeing more in Depth and more traumatic situations just deepens my knowledge and also passion as well for it.

You should be able to go along to a course and ask the tutor, well, what happens if you do this with cpr?

They should not be then saying, well, I'll make a note of that and I'll ask a vet and I'll reply to you by email.

That is not what you're paying for.

You are paying for real experience that can answer on your spot, on the spot with accuracy and passion.

All right.

I think that's what you're looking for in a tutor.

And you know, briefly said, you know, before we started, there's all these pet professionals, pet experts, dog walkers, you know, qualified groomers, qualified vet physios, qualified and licensed dog borders, et cetera, et cetera.

They, they really.

Dog trainers as well.

They're really pushing and behaviorists pushing for qualifications.

Do not choose a behaviorist unless they're qualified.

Do not walker unless they've passed, you know, and done these certain courses on body language and things.

Yet these very people are going and booking people to run a first aid course that have never had veterinary experience.

It's me.

I would literally just have the same conversation before we come on it.

Some of the stuff that you see and it doesn't.

Like I said, it doesn't matter whether it's first aid or whether it's accountancy and stuff like that.

Sometimes these things do baffle you that you're sort of fighting for one thing.

But then go to someone who isn't.

Maybe because it's cheaper, I don't know.

Or maybe they just haven't done their research, I don't know.

But it's such a vital thing.

It's the same as human first did.

Yeah, like.

Like asking CPR of someone who's never done it before to teach you how to do cpr.

It's tricky.

Yeah.

And I think if you're teaching human first aid, you have to renew your.

I think it's a license every two years.

You've got to be refreshed and passed.

But that doesn't happen with dog first aid or pet first aid.

You can just set yourself up.

You could copy somebody's PowerPoint and set yourself up as a canine first aid trainer.

And that has happened and it does still happen.

And yeah, the other thing that is really common thread is that people come to my course and it's happening three or four times with vet physios and vet hydrotherapists.

They'll come to me afterwards and say, we Weren't taught that, or they say we were taught that the dog has to be on the right side.

I said, well, it's incorrect because when you're teaching cpr, for example, everybody that's teaching for cpr, in my opinion, should follow the guideline, the veterinary standard guidelines, which is the recover guidelines.

And I said, did they ever mention the recover guidelines when they were teaching?

No.

And I said that is worrying for somebody that's teaching high level people mention the RECOVER guidelines.

It's a big red flag to me.

So there's all these little things that are red flags.

Teaching CPR with the legs to hold you.

Red flag.

Legs should always be away from you, you know, just these little things.

And I'm like, yeah, you know, it.

Must be quite frustrating from your point of view, you know, when you are so experienced and qualified doing it and then you see people teaching stuff that is wrong on something that like, is so vital that, you know, could be a literally life or death situation for the dog.

Yeah, yeah.

And, and, and the other thing that I'm developing actually is a CPR drills course and it's not going to be ready anytime soon, but this can either be done in person or the idea is going to do it online, but it's going to be quite interactive where people have to submit videos and things like that.

So if you've got a grooming shop and they've got four staff, I often ask groomers, when did you last do?

Or anybody that's got multiple staff.

Daycare is another one.

When did you do a CPR drill?

And blank.

Never.

All right, you have to start CPR as it is with humans within 10 seconds.

You cannot faff around for 60, 80 seconds while you start CPR.

Oh, I can't remember.

I can't remember.

Will you phone the owner, say, oh, please, I don't want to phone the owner and tell them that the dog's really ill.

Remember the car?

I put the car in the garage where I've got transport today.

All these things, you cannot be faffing around.

You have to have a paper trail.

You have to log when the dog collapsed, what time you started cpr, how long you did CPR for, how you got to the vet.

You have to have a paper trail for that client because they're going to ask.

So one of these course I'm going to design is about that, really, and put people through their paces gently just to get them rehearsed in these situations, because you have to act quickly and it's going to Be kind of like video submission.

So I'll critique it and then say, you're going to have to resubmit that.

Just change that a little bit.

So it's going to be quite interactive.

It's not going to be pay your money and then leave you to it.

Death by PowerPoint.

Yeah, it's going to be backwards and.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Just means, I think, important.

Like, I don't.

I don't know.

And you might know the answer to, you know, when people do, like, the grooming qualifications and things.

Is there a dog first aid element in that?

Oh, there is, yeah.

In most of them.

I'm not gonna.

I'm not gonna say in all of them.

Some of them are too basic.

But four Paws Groom School, which is attached to ipet Network.

Yeah, they do it really thoroughly and they do this level three.

Yeah.

And that's what we're trying to do.

We standardize it.

Yeah.

And I think it needs to be like.

Well, I don't understand how.

It can't be.

If you.

If you're dealing with someone's dogs, it'd be like going to a nursery, giving your kid to a nursery and then not knowing how to do first aid.

They are, you know.

Yeah, it's the same thing.

It's like, I don't get it and I.

Maybe we should start a petition or something to get into government to say that dog first aid should be a legal requirement for people.

Yeah, we do have.

I'll send you the link.

We do have a website that started that process.

I'll send you the link.

Yeah, send me the link and I'll pop it in the group.

Because I think it is important.

I mean, when I was in the police, we had to do our sort of first aid training every six months.

Yeah.

And people were still crap at it, even doing it every six months.

And I think until you've actually physically done it.

Do you know what I mean?

I can see where you're coming from with someone training who hasn't done cpr to someone training who has done cpr, the difference would be massive.

Yeah, yeah.

And, you know, the more dogs that you're looking after, the more chances you're going to be in that situation.

You know, in my vets that I work at, and it's a very small vet, we've had three fatalities fairly recently from dog carers, from groomers, actually.

Can't go into detail, but, yeah, it happens, it happens.

And you need to be on the ball and you need to have up to date training and be able to deal with it quickly and efficiently.

You don't want to have that sort of hindsight feeling where something does happen to a dog and you think, oh, I should have.

Somebody's.

Should have done.

Yeah, someone's baby.

Like if I, you know, something happened to Frank, my little dash hound, and, and he died because someone didn't know how to do dog CPR and he was at a daycare, I'd be human.

Yeah, exactly.

Sue him.

I'd probably sue him.

Well, that's what they've got to be careful of this, these, this day and age is that people will sue you.

People are not.

Oh, never mind, I'll get another one.

Well, never mind.

You killed my dog.

Oh, well, I'll get another one.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, listen, guys, let's.

We'll get the link in the group and just make sure everyone signs it because I think it is important.

I think it should be compulsory.

I even like just general dog owners like myself, we.

We should do dog first aid courses and that should be a requirement.

I mean, Tegan needs to be a groomer so she, she knows what she's doing, she's doing the first day courses.

But I would have a bloody clue.

Yeah.

If something happened to Frank, I'd be that useless person going, I'll send you the link.

I'll send you a link to my online one as well.

Because even just.

Yeah, do it, it's really.

Yeah, yeah.

The feedback I get off that one is this has got 4 times the amount of information and the ones I've done previously and, you know, there's loads of pictures and videos and it's like.

Yeah, I think you can get.

The problem is you can get courses and anything.

Like you can learn to be an accountant on groupon for 15 quid.

And again, it's not regulated.

The grooming isn't regulated.

Dogs walking my dog, grooming my dog.

That's done one of those courses.

No, I wouldn't either.

No.

And.

But I bet no one asks either, though.

No, that's it.

No one goes, oh, by the way.

Or you have you got Facebook until something happens.

And clients that.

Dog owners that tend to be very blase at the beginning, like.

Yeah, I'll just book.

You are the very ones that make the biggest fuss if something goes wrong.

Oh, God, yeah.

They want to know your credentials, they want to know your business insurance, they want to take you to court.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, we've.

I've got a friend who.

Well, we'll talk about that.

Maybe separate.

So I've got just some, some random questions I'm just going to throw at you that I thought of actually before you came on.

Obviously you would assume that dog.

And we keep picking on dog groomers, but dog groomers, daycares, whatever.

Would have like a first aid kit.

Yes.

In their building, salon, whatever.

Yeah.

Is there any sort of like, is there a specific first aid kit that you would direct people to?

Was there any sort of essential things that they should have?

And so farmer, dog, women.

Now listen to this and go, right, I've got something, but what are the essential bits?

Yeah, I think essentials are life saving things.

There's a lot of kits out there that actually have got lots of stuff in that won't save a dog's life.

So.

And it's really funny that you ask that question because I've got my own design first aid kit and you didn't.

Know that this was not planned.

No.

First aid kit.

And if I could grab one actually.

But they're in there.

I can't because they're outside in my, my little metal, what we call a little metal shed.

It's got all my gear in.

But yeah, basically we've got a kit that is great for work, work situations and living in your van and things like that.

It's got copious amounts of bandages in because that's always what's missing out of first aid kit.

If you've got a Saint Bernard that's got a cut foot with glass, you're going to need four or five wide bandages and they're always missing out of first aid kits.

One little bandage is not going to save a dog's life from bleeding.

It's got a foil blanket in, it's got saline ipods in.

Yes, great for sort of flushing grass, eating out.

But really this is for an emergency where we've got prolapsed eyeball.

So an eyeball, when it comes out of its normal place, you need to keep it moisturized.

So that's what that's for, really common in new brachycephalic breeds.

It's got tonicae in and, and gauze pads for pressure and things like that.

So yeah, so there's that one.

There's also a little one that's really handy called polypores kit.

Now I helped design the contents for that with the actual owners of that one.

That's great.

Just sticking in your dog walking pocket, sticking in your rucksack when you're going for a walk.

So two purposes.

But I think the main Thing is, got to have things that are actually going to save the dog's life.

Yeah.

Not just full of rubbish.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I didn't know you had that, so that.

That wasn't planned.

Yeah, it worked very well.

But again, put the links.

Please give me the link to all of this, because what I'll do is I'll.

I'll send it out on the group and everything and make sure that everyone's got access to that, because I do think it's important.

What was I going to say about the first.

Oh, yeah, tourniquets.

And this is just a random question.

Do they work in the same way as human tourniquets?

Yeah, they do work in exactly the same way and the problem is that the dog's anatomy doesn't really lend itself to really good, effective tornacate.

You have to get your hands on first, especially with femoral or any bleeding, but especially for sort of femoral breeds.

Anything that's arterial, you need to get your hands on it first.

Then think about what you're going to do because it could lose so much blood very quickly.

Support it with a tourniquet.

So you put it above the joint that's above the wound and then tie it really tightly.

And they're now saying you can leave it on up to two hours.

So in that time you're going to be at the vets anyway.

So you're going to be straight to the vets.

Yeah.

But if you're out and about and you haven't actually got any first aid kit on you, use whatever you've got on you as a tourniquet.

You normally we've got boots or trainers on, pull a boot lace out, use that as a tourniquet, cord out your hoodie, scrunchie out of your hair, dogs lead anything to get that blood stopped.

Yeah, yeah.

I was just curious, actually, whether it does work in the same way, because obviously we use tourniquets all the time.

What is a common mistake that people make?

Have you got any sort of, like, ones that stand out that people do wrong?

I think probably the hot topic at the moment is heat stroke.

So people put the dog in a position where the dog overheats and then they actually don't think how quickly or they don't realise how quickly the insect is.

Obviously it's fatal.

And at the moment as well, the new guidelines.

Well, I'm saying new, they've been trying to change the guidelines for heat stroke treatment since 2018.

It's just they really kicked it back off in 2022 because it really wasn't hitting home and people were still insistent that cooling your dog slowly was the way to go.

It's actually not.

You have to rapid cool and rapid immerse the dog as quickly as possible in as cold water as possible.

Unless a dog is a puppy.

Elderly, I always have to put that in.

But cold water immersion is the treatment standard now.

Probably that's another thing that annoys me when you, you're out in like 30, like here obviously in Newcastle doesn't get that hot but a few weeks ago it was like 30 odd degrees I think when we had that like mini heat wave and there's people walking the dogs.

I know at the high street and 33 degrees.

Yeah.

I'm like, what are you doing?

Yeah.

Crazy.

Yeah.

I think the other, the other thing that's important as well that people, we have a good relationship with their vets.

It's always a good idea to have a relationship with the vets because you never know when you need them in an emergency.

I do quite a lot of nurse appointments, home nurse appointments where we're only limited to because I'm not under instruction of a vet.

When I'm not at work, I'm only limited to doing nail clippings and that kind of thing.

I quite enjoy it, getting out in the environment and meet people in the homes.

But when you ask them, are you registered with a vet?

They say, oh no, no, he's really healthy.

And it just makes me worry inside because if you do need a vet, because we're not just talking about accidents, you know, if a dog develops pancreatitis or swallowed up choking or something, you need a vet.

And if you've already got a relationship, you're already registered with the vet.

It's much easier to get seen than if you haven't got an account with them.

Like, oh, well, we know we're not too many new clients at the moment, that kind of thing.

You're going to hit those barriers.

So even though you think you might not need a vet, is always register with a vet, a relationship.

Pop in and see the nurses, get a weight check.

So we get to know your pet, that kind of thing.

I think that's a big.

Yeah, yeah.

We, we change vets recently.

We've, we've got more of like I, I would say an old school vet.

He's very, not really asked about talking to the humans.

Loves the dogs.

Yeah.

But he's very blunt and to the point.

You're in there for five minutes he doesn't chit chat, he doesn't want to talk to you.

It's just.

Yeah, he's just all about the dog.

Yeah, yeah.

He's like, right, what's wrong?

Yeah, here's the thing.

I don't want to chit chat with you.

Out you go, like, sort your dog piss off.

But he's, you know, still gives the tablets in those little like brown.

Oh, yes, yeah.

Doesn't have.

It doesn't have a computer filing system.

It's still in a.

A little like, like he's properly old school, but he's.

Yeah, we prefer that than going to a bigger practice where you've got like 20 different vets and you see a different one every time and they.

You have to re.

Explain the issues because we've got a Frenchie that's got allergies, funnily enough.

And you go into the vet and it was like a different vet.

You have to tell the same story and say they don't know.

Whereas he's just like, you know, you go in, he's like, yeah, blah, blah, blah, off you go.

And it's just like a conveyor belt.

But he's very.

It's very old school, very.

If you were easily offended, probably wouldn't.

Be the best because it suits people and doesn't suit others.

So.

Yeah, yeah, he doesn't give a.

About talking to.

He's just like, yeah, what's wrong?

Yeah, there you go, off you pop.

Yeah, okay, bye.

Yeah, but yeah, he's good though.

He's good and he doesn't take the piss with like.

I find that some vets will just give you stuff for the sake of it or charge you for the sake or what we have in the past.

I just think.

Whereas he's just very like.

That's why it's really important to get a relationship with the vet.

So you are more on a personal level.

Definitely.

Yeah, yeah, no, fabulous.

I think you may have answered this.

This was my last question.

How often should people do the refresher training?

Ideally every two years.

Yeah, because things change.

The of call level three qualification, the IPET Network one is valid for three years, but you can always do a refresh online, you know, either with mine or another veterinary professional led comprehensive one.

But yeah, every two years is great.

I mean, the cpr, the recovery guidelines changed six, eight months ago and they do minor changes and there's been four minor changes in basic life support in the last six, eight months.

And again, my course is up to date and reflects that.

But Some are just way behind, as mentioned earlier.

So, yeah, you need to refresh.

Yeah, definitely.

So the tips for today's podcast is get someone proper to do the course.

Don't get it off, grip on, Have a check out of Rachel's courses and first aid kits.

Get a decent first aid kit.

Let's sign the petition to get this as a proper thing and just do it properly, guys.

Like, we see it so many times, even, like, and it goes with everything.

Like, people go into an accountant, it's not regulated.

Like, you could decide to be an accountant tomorrow, Rachel, and just say, right now I'm an accountant and take people's tax returns.

It's mad.

If my maths wasn't so being a vet, you know, you know all level maths and that as well.

Yeah, don't give me tax returns for Rachel, people.

She's just got first aid issues.

Yes, but, yeah, and just make sure you do it properly, guys.

Spend the money on the correct, correct training.

Like, it's going to be worth it at the end of the day.

And it saves you from a business perspective as well, because if something goes wrong, the first thing they're going to ask you is your insurance and all your first day trained.

And if you don't have the first aid training, you're going to be screwed as far as the insurance is concerned.

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

And the other, the other big thing now is that everything, everybody, if anybody's got a disgruntled client, they put it on social media.

Oh, God.

Yeah.

You're gonna have a witch hunt.

They're going to say, don't use this dog business.

They did this to my dog.

They'll embellish it.

They'll, they'll, they'll make it more than it was.

People jump on the bandwagon.

You're gonna have.

It's gonna affect your mental health and it could put you out of business.

Yeah.

And it can't.

Social media is a good tool, but it's also a dangerous tool, like you say, because if, if a dog was to die in someone's care, then your business is almost ruined because they'll just, like you said, everyone will jump on the bandwagon and it'll be.

And it has and does happen.

Yeah, yeah.

But yes, I will put all the links for Rachel's bits and bobs in the group and on the page.

So please, please, please, if you're looking, go and check it out.

And Rachel's also going to be doing an online seminar for us at the back end of the year for the Expo in November.

So make sure if you've got your ticket to look out for Rachel's seminar then and we'll get dates for all of that near the time.

But no, thanks very much, Rachel.

I think it's been really informative and interesting, Preston, and it's been lovely to have you on and hopefully we'll get you on again the back end of the hour.

It'd be good to have a catch up.

Yeah, super.

Thank you.

Fabulous.

Right everyone, have a good week.

Any questions again, just pop them in the comments.

I'll make sure Rachel's in the group in case there's any questions in there.

And yeah, have a good week everyone and we'll catch up again next Wednesday.

Well, I'll be back with Lee and yet just thanks again, Rachel and enjoy your trip and send me all those, all those bits through and I'll get them posted.

I will.

Fabulous.

Thanks everyone.

Take care.

Bye.

Thanks for listening.

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