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Welcome to Mindset, Mood and Movement, a systemic approach to human behavior, performance, and well being. Our psychological, emotional, and physical health are all connected, and my guests and I endeavor to share knowledge, strategies, and tools for you to enrich your life and work. Today I am talking with my guest Camille Pearson and our subject is a really cool one and I'm going to ask Camille how does she run a family, run a business and run an iron man as a woman because it's a really big ask and Camille and I have had some really interesting conversations beforehand and I'm absolutely intrigued with her, her life story. her health story and how she, she runs all this stuff. It's absolutely wonderful. So I'm delighted to have Camille join me today and hopefully this will be inspiring. This will show you that you can do a lot of things and Camille has got, she's got the knowledge, she's got the experience and she's got the know how and I'm going to hope to join this conversation adding how all these can come together. So Camille, welcome.

Thank you so much for having me.

It's really good to have you here. So that's a pretty strong intro, right? So how to run it all. And I know in today's world, there is, there's sometimes is this thing about trying to do it all, which perhaps is not where we're going with it. So we're just going to carry out that. It's not about doing it all. It's about how do you do this well. And this is what I was really intrigued when I first met Camille. so we're going to get into this, but. For those of you who don't know Camille, she runs The Float Spa, she's a businesswoman, and she has a very interesting backstory around health. So today, she's tough, she does Ironmans. It wasn't the case when you were a young person, was it Camille? Maybe you could share with us a little bit about your early years and perhaps how you, or the challenges you came into the world with.

Yes, so I was born in the 80s, and I was actually born with a rare heart condition. It's actually not that rare anymore, but, it, was certainly in the 80s the conventional medicine or conventional route for recovery or healing or getting over it was, to have open heart surgery. So when I was born about six months into my life, obviously I remember this well, obviously not, I was, I had health complications and, it was. found out that I had this hole in my heart and, they wanted to immediately cut me open and conduct open heart surgery, which my mum was not really best pleased about. She was like, Oh, I don't want to have a massive scar. She's very young. This seems Like extreme. So it was very much, oh, we have to monitor it. And I, I just remember about, I think it was about eight or nine when I first found out about this, because I just thought going every three months to the cardiologist to be wrapped up to any CG machine was absolutely normal but actually it wasn't. And so I would have all these checks constantly and it was my mom and dad, and they weren't actually together for. My life, and we're having an argument at the end of the bed saying you need to tell her and I was like, okay I was eight or nine. I've got a ten year old now, so I think that I probably would have told my child That's at that point, but fundamentally I wasn't told and this is how I found out So I remember going to school and running around telling everybody that I had a hole in my hand Which was like, then the parents were then pulled in to have a word with the headmaster and it's what is going on? And it was all a little bit chaotic, and then I was told, oh, you're not meant to do sport, you're not meant to do activity because the amount of pressure. And they monitor, the size of the hole. So every time we go in, we had a size of the hole and the hole in my heart was actually the size of a 50 pence piece, which is deemed quite big. And, yeah, so the way it works is oxygen was not filtering through into my body properly, it was going back out, and, it meant that carbon dioxide was going back in, and it just, the whole thing was apparently a ticking time bomb. And, so the maximum age plan, they were a bit like, at those times, oh, if she doesn't have any surgery, maximum age would be 40, and she shouldn't be active, and she shouldn't do any of these things. And I was like, okay. When I found out of it, okay, I really playing netball, and I really like playing hockey, and I'm a really good swimmer, and I really like to do those things, and it was like, okay, so now I've found out, and now I'm not meant to do anything, even though I have been active beforehand, so it was always that question. And then I went to secondary school and pretty much ignored all the advice. I captained the hockey team, I captained the netball team, I literally played any form of sport. I loved PE, I was just constantly active. I was running all the time, doing cross country races. I just did it all because I really enjoyed it and it didn't affect me. And I think in when I was 12. That's the only subject I've never done very well in was biology and ironically what I do now for a living is, and we were studying the heart and the teacher, we were studying the heart and I said, Oh, I've got an atrial septal defect and she turned around to me and said, You can't have, you'd be yellow. And I was like, Okay, but I actually do have that heart defect and she. argued with me in the class and I just stood up and walked out the class and never set foot into a biology lesson again. again, my mother was dragged in and the discussions about my behavior, which I was a grade A student and got an E in biology, just didn't really fit with what was happening. flash forward in 1998, I was very fortunate to have keyhole surgery. I was the very first child in Manchester. to have this surgery. as a 15 year old, having keyhole surgery through your groin with, 25 doctors and nurses in a room was highly embarrassing, but it did give me that chance to then be told live your life. I spent 12 months on aspirin and then that was it. And it only really occurred again, when I was pregnant really, that I never really had to discuss it. And the cardiologist said to me okay, you're now fixed, that's it. And that's it really, so I've just gone on to just live a life, but there's been some interesting people, some very high level celebrities that have actually struggled with their heart and actually have then found out in much later life that they had that same defect, and their hearts were failing in their mid to late 30s, and when you're, you hear about those stories, how fortunate I was to have that surgery and for my, my mother to wait for the time for them to find that surgery, that, that level of medical advances that then gave me this life that I can now be a normal person.

Wow, what a story. There's several things that really stood out to me in there. And yes, of course, the 80s, perhaps even today, there is this narrative, isn't there, that if there's something quote unquote wrong with a person, it's a heart condition, there's this, you should do less. Now I know you and I probably have got quite a strong view on this about doing more, doing less and appropriateness, but isn't it interesting that, don't do sport, don't do this, don't do that. And. In some ways that knowledge has been contravened a lot in more recent times to say actually if you want good health, physical, mental, emotional, metabolic, you do need to be doing active movement and it's so curious that you were given that advice and thank goodness for you. it seems like you rebelled against that, which I love, it's no, I'm not going to do that. And, and of course you've got to enjoy your childhood. Because you can't go back, this is such an important thing I'm all about, like time is this fluid flow, don't miss it, because you can't buy it back, and it sounds like you got that really, really nice, I'm pleased to hear it. I'm really interested in to get into the mind of you, about what happens, because this is not a new pattern, this is something that clearly is happening. What happens when you're told you can't do something?

sometimes it's just take time to digest about what you are being told you cannot do. don't jump off a cliff. I probably would agree with that. Unless you're wearing a, you know, a parachute or something like that. But, there's, there's, there's parameters. And believe me, I am actually a big rules follower. I love checking rules, following rules. All that stuff. I think when it comes to your body, a lot of times, you know best. And even maybe with, if you're a parent with a child as well, is that, my daughter got very sick when she was little. And we would go back and forth to the doctors, and the doctors went, Are you a first time parent? this happens all the time. And it was only because of our persistence she was then admitted to paediatric intensive care. It was that serious. And, I think being able to listen to your body So if I, had a training session and I was getting out of breath all the time and I couldn't breathe, I think there's something wrong. But if, if I was very, very unfit and doing a, suddenly decided to do a 5km run, everybody would feel out of breath. But is it that you're feeling out of breath because you're Different. Or is it because you are unfit? So I think the first really valuable point is listening to your body. for me, I'd been doing exercise, my whole life. I was super active all the time. And then to be told, okay, you don't do, you can't do anything. Or stop doing that. And it's like, why am I stopping doing that when I was doing it yesterday? What's the difference today? I haven't suddenly, something bad hasn't suddenly happened today, I was exactly the same yesterday. I was listening to a really good podcast exactly about this, or a book saying about how Bruce Lee was told after a serious injury that he could never do anything again, and actually how you can go on to retrain and listen to your body and actually recover from really severe injuries, but being able to listen to your body.

Lovely. Such an interesting point. So interesting to hear that you were challenging that as a young, young person. What age were you when you were given this first initial diagnosis?

Six months. I was six months old.

of course, okay. So six months, right? It's your parents having to feed that in. And when were you told that you couldn't exercise?

Well, technically, they told me, that it was the school that said that I shouldn't do any exercise. And, whereas, with the cardiologist that we were going back and forwards to, I don't believe, I haven't asked this question to my parents actually, that I was told by the cardiologist not to exercise. Then, maybe when I got older, I was told not to exercise. Does that make sense? when I was a baby, it wasn't really addressed then, but as they were monitoring it, it was like, Oh, you need to not do too much, and, you've got to be careful because she's not having the surgery, you need to watch it. So it was only when I started to get bigger, because yes, I was getting bigger, my heart was getting bigger, and the hole in my heart was getting bigger. So I believe it was as I came into secondary school when everyone has that big jump, that it was around that time that I was told then don't do anything.

Interesting. Very interesting. Now, of course, if we, if we bring the overlay that, that thinking, that approach to perhaps modern day, modern day you, modern day people, our listeners, who aren't children. if you're an adult and you're listening, then people may say that you shouldn't do things. And if it's a health professional, of course you do need to take their knowledge. I've got a buddy of mine, he's been a doctor, they train for years and years, they know so much stuff. But there's something very interesting, isn't there, about between hearing something from another, a health professional, a specialist, these sorts of things where people really invest a lot of time and skill. And then checking that with your own understanding and your own. Body. So what does your body say? Because that goes and flips in several ways. You could be pushed, say in an exercise class or training drills, you'd be pushed to go harder. But if that's not right, if you genuinely feel your body's saying, no, that's too much. I'm getting too many, get too much fatigue. I'm getting injured. Then maybe your body is talking louder than your trainer. And then of course there's a flip, which is perhaps you're, you're told to take it easy because you're over 40. my bugbear about as you get older, you should slow down. I'm like, yeah, who came up with that rule? Is that the person who drew the sign? the orange, the, sign where you've got old people bent over. It's it doesn't always need to be like this, but there is this trajectory after 40 that things start to fatigue. The body starts to, to break down. And the only way to do something about that is to arrest it, which is health activity, physiology, exercise, nutrition, mind, mindfulness, psychology. It is all of these factors of the self, the human self, that need attending to, to stay well. In that instance, if someone's saying, you should slow down. You're over 50 mate. And take it easy. It's Hmm, I'm not sure that's credible advice when my body feels energy after training. So our body is a powerful messenger. And the question is how can we listen to it better? That's what I, I'm interested in. So Camille, how do you listen to your body in today's world as you train now, as you're, a business woman and a mom, how do you listen to your body today?

Oh, I'm always listening to my body because I'm now over 40 and I've got aches and pains. I think, to be perfectly honest, if you look at me now and where I was when I was 30, I think I'm fitter, younger, healthier, and everything now than I've ever been. Ironically, in my twenties, yes, I was super active as a, a teenager, but then in my twenties I. I found Brighton and the evening's entertainments here in Brighton and I think I believed that you could sleep a lot when you were dead and that was the mindset that I would live and then I had children and then things I suppose when you Start to put in perspective that you are suddenly not just yourself, you're not reliant on yourself and then you've got children and you're trying to lead a good example for them. I was a bit like, okay, I've always enjoyed fitness and then it was like how you can then embed fitness into your life. I don't really going to the gym to be honest, it's not, it's not for me. That's not my thing. I have lots of time for loads of people that that's their thing, but just, it's not my bag. I do triathlons and people think I'm crazy and that's absolutely fine. But I genuinely believe that you can reverse aging. You can reverse aging, you can Look after your body. You can listen to your body. I went in my regular meditation classes. I focus on the word interception. So everything you can feel internally, what can you notice about the feelings in your body? And we do loads of work about that. And it is exactly how I live my life. I wake up in the morning and you know how you get out of bed. can sometimes influence how the whole day goes. Can you get out of bed and say, Today's going to be amazing! Yes! Let's go! even when you're feeling that you've had three hours sleep or whatever, you can still find the positive. And that kind of mindset does pull you up, because, on your down days, and we all have down days, and when you get up and it's minus three outside, and you're meant to go for a run at six o'clock in the morning, you're like, how many layers of clothing can I wear? it's It's difficult, but your body does support you, and also, the question I love to ask myself is how much better do I feel after I've done something? Because no one feels worse after a run.

Can I speak to that? Cause it's just such an important thing. I have this time and time again. So those of you, some of you know my regular listeners know me, but in case this is new, I coach human performance that covers psychology, emotional, breathwork and physiology. So I'm also a strength and conditioning trainer. I've been a long time yoga teacher. I'm really interested when we, we'd shift mindset around exercise, particularly for people who've been away from it or haven't done it and they've got to maybe a certain point in their life, it's, things aren't working. You don't feel well, you don't look good, you, things just aren't working for you because your physiology and your body is not in the right condition it needs to be. So it's okay, I'm going to start some exercise. Great. And I've had the classic like, oh, how do you, people say to me, how are you so motivated? I'm like, I'm not motivated. I've got structure. I've got purpose. I've got a really compelling reason. But like you, Camille, I ran, I mentioned the other day. I ran out in the morning. It's like dark and rainy. I'm like, oh, this is just miserable we're recording this in winter in the UK right now. I did not wanna be outside in the day, but what I did want is I wanted the payoff. So the paycheck at the end of that run was. Everything I know, metabolic improvements, cardiovascular improvements, vitality, youth, energy, mitochondrial shifts, cognitive shifts, like we got the knowledge on this now. So going for a run, the payoff is so big, so big, that the price is cheap. And that's the way I see it. And I think in our culture, we've obviously got, we've got to shift it sometimes because people say, Oh, it's hard running or it's hard gym. Yeah, it might be a bit. But the payoff is so much softer, nicer, better, and I think this is one that shifts and I really would like to get your insights about what, take us through what drives you, what's your reason, your motivation, whatever terminology you use and dial into to go on a run, to sign up for a triathlon, to do what you do. Take us through how you approach this. Yeah.

I used to, I mean I've run a lot, I would be a stop start runner, so I'd run for a few months or sign up to a race, so this is my past, so in 2012 I completed my first marathon, I did the Brighton marathon and I'd actually only trained for the half, and then I was like, oh, I'm halfway there and it's my wedding and I want to look really good on my wedding, so I'm going to do this. Okay, so I actually did the, the half marathon and I think it's six weeks later I did the marathon and I did great and I was like feeling good and I didn't have a That was before we had like smart watches. I think I had a heart rate monitor I just don't really have any tech So I didn't I actually the pace was the pace and I wasn't really bothered and I thought I did really And I was great And then I had babies, I had my daughter, and then after having my daughter, she got very sick, and I opened, just after that, I opened, the Float Spa, as part of my recovery from her being ill, and we haven't really talked about my breakdown in 2014, but that's a whole different story, and then I actually used, opened my business, and then it suddenly became focused on that, and I think 2015 was like the, the first, Step into the wellness world because I'd only really, I'd only floated before and that was about it. And then before my first float, I think I'd had a massage on holiday, so I wasn't really into the wellness scene. my background before the Floats Spa was in sales and marketing, and we lived a thousand miles an hour and everything was really stressful and. It was just relentless stress and busyness and you'd have to be at work at 8 o'clock and you have to leave at 7pm and you don't get to see your family and, ugh, oh my god, that is, ugh, horrible. but that was the norm. Then my daughter got ill and actually then I got very sick and I used floating to overcome that and then I opened the float spray and then it was like, okay, now what? Just run the business and carry on and, I think it was just after my son was born in 2016 that I was a bit like, Oh, I should really do a bit more exercise, get really into it. And then in 2017, I, met this amazing gym and actually joined a gym with a personal trainer. And I said, I didn't like it. And then, I worked with him for a couple of years and then I used to really love running. And he's Oh, you should go for more runs. I was like, Okay, cool. Yeah. And then I was like, okay, so I started running a couple of times a week, not really like fast, just like plodding along and carrying on. And then 2019 came and I decided in my goal setting, which I always do, and I teach goal setting and with all my coaching clients, etc. And I decided to sign up to a white collar boxing match. So you can see I was a very traditional type of there's an event and then you've got to work out how to do it. And then I would do things like, the half marathon and it was always an event triggered me to be motivated. And that's very common. And I see that with clients. And then once I started this world of running again, I was like, Oh, I feel I'm getting a bit older now and my joints shouldn't be running four times a week. And what do I like? And I was like, you know what? I've never. I've, this world of triathlon, maybe I could do a triathlon. I used to love swimming. but I know about water chemistry through the floats bar, so I was really fussy about getting in a swimming pool and the sea. That's another story. so I was like, okay, just, just going to the pool. And I had this bike that I used to ride, and I was a bit like, oh, this bike is, there was, I would run over on it, and it was all like, oh. Bit traumatic. So it's like releasing some of the trauma. I'd lost a baby on this bike and I was like, just get rid of the bike. It's a mindset. It's get rid of the bike because the bike's the problem. You're not the problem. So I bought myself a bike and then decided to sign up to a triathlon, not having a clue what to do. just thought it'd be really interesting just to try it. And then, yeah, then the bug has hit, but I now do lots of events, swimming events, running events, cycling events, all three, full distance, short distance, sprints, all these different world. and originally it was all about being motivated just by an event, but now it's. if I don't exercise a day, I just don't feel normal. And my people say when I tell people that I exercise seven days a week, they think that exercising is like me doing like a thousand percent effort every time. And I don't, there's days where I'm doing like a run and it's, basically it doesn't feel much faster than a walk. And there's days where I do. Sprinting and it's really, really fast. And people go, oh, that's really fast. And I go on a cycle ride or put the indoor bike on at home, just sit there watching TV and watching Netflix whilst my legs just spin around for an hour. And it's a really easy one. And then there's times where it's like sprinting. And I come in and everyone looks at me and my husband and the kids look at me and go, you had a workout today, then And it's just mixing it up. But fundamentally. I love the feeling what your body feels when you've done exercise, and I cannot live without it, really.

Fascinating. So, interesting. I want to unpick a little bit of that. for those people who are either starting the journey, want to start the journey, somewhere in the journey, we are all differently. We're motivated by different things, external motivation, internal motivation, or external, intrinsic, external, externals, big. It works for a lot of people. My partner signed up for a half marathon and she did it. And when she hasn't signed up for it, she doesn't run much. Although I train her most of the time, but. If that's how you roll, you leverage it. So understanding your mind, that's what I do with people, help people understand their mind. So if you're externally driven, fine, sign up for a marathon, half marathon, 5k, it doesn't matter. Zumba, Zumba competition, it doesn't matter. But that will give you the the focal point and the reason, the shape and the structure. I'm internally driven. I could just go train because I'm fortunately I'm very kinesthetically connected. I'm very connected to my body. that's thanks for years of yoga that, that gave me that connection and enriched it. And the feeling is Everything. The feeling of being strong is priceless. So we talk about Seder symbols, back in the day when I was born, the men of my age would have was seeks a big car or something like that or a, a couple of million in the bank. Now I, I did a lot of the guys I'm talking to, they want to say the symbol of a body that's fit and strong and dynamic and, and that they feel very comfortable in. So it's very interesting that we can play around with whatever drives us. Know what drives you, go with that. That would be my, my understanding and you've already alluded to that and it's interesting, isn't it? I want to say something. I know some people can be intimidated. by the early part of this journey. If you're coming from sedentary lifestyle, sales and marketing, doing 12 hour days. I worked in advertising when I was young. So I know all that vibe. It can be intimidating. When you look at someone you're like, Oh my God, they're a triathlete or you train all this time. It can be intimidating because it's scary. And I've cited this example, I got into CrossFit in my mid 40s and I was doing a lot of yoga at the time and yoga is, I was very good at yoga, if you can be good at it, whatever that term means, and I went to CrossFit and I was absolutely rubbish, I was, I was very weak compared to most of the girls there, let alone the male athletes, and I was really intimidated. My ego was really squashed down. Thankfully, because the work I do with psychology and human behavior, that I was able to manage that ego squashing and stay with the process. It took me five months to feel okay. And that was going twice a week, every week, CrossFit and doing some other stuff. So that took five months of commitment to see, is this going to work out? And one thing I find, and I want to get your view on this, it does need a long term approach. So signing up for a triathlon or going to the gym today and seeing do you like it? You probably won't. You probably, you probably hate it because you're her and it's awkward and you'll feel a bit weird. But if you go on that evidence rather than going on a long term evidence, you're, you're gonna possibly miss out now. I'm really intrigued about, so we're speaking about motivation and driving. How do we prioritize is a really key thing, right? You're a mum. You run a business. You're super busy. I've got my own business. I've got loads of things that I have to do and lots of clients and And I know how I roll and I'm happy to share that. But I want to know how you do your prioritization because I hear so many people say, Oh, I haven't got the time. I'm like, Camille has got the time. I've got the time. We've all got the same time. It's 24 hours in a day. No one gets any different. It's the same gift. You live one of those days, you get the gift of 24 hours. What you do with it is up to you. Now. I'm going to be gentle here. I know some people have a high demand. They might have to have roll up a big job to keep the family going. I understand how difficult it is. I coach people like this all the time. So we're not going to say isn't, but how do you get this training priority into your life with, you are a mom, you are a business owner, you've got a lot on your plate. How do you make it work so that we can help others understand how maybe they can make it work for them?

So my big thing as well is also encouraging the children to see you do it. So that's just something that I love. So is, there's times when my husband goes and, I help at a run club, for example, and he's oh, me and the kids are going to come down and meet you afterwards. I was like, okay, that's cool. I've got the kids bikes. We'll go for an hour run. So my husband and I go for a run together. And the kids are on their bikes, so they don't know, my son is 7 and my daughter's 10, so they go for a nice flat bike ride on the seafront, with the wind, it's always a bit of a challenge, and my husband and I just run alongside them, and we do that quite a bit, so it's an hour activity that's free, on a Sunday for example, and that means I'm getting my training session in, my husband's getting a training session in, and the kids are out in the fresh air, so that's That's an example of how you can do it as a family, that obviously can't happen every day because the kids have their own schedule, my husband's got his own business, I've got my own business, they're different, very different, but on a Sunday is my, my kind of planning day, I'm a big kid. I love habits. I love creating tiny habits, big habits. I love challenges, outcomes, aspirations. I love it all because we can work towards something. but for me on a Sunday, I do super fridge Sunday, so do meal prep in the fridge. And it's not putting everything in pots and you just take it out and it's a complete meal. It's more like I'd always say going to Subway and you've got everything laid out like quinoa together, salad together, meat or veg or whatever, everything's all done in pots so you can scoop it into a jar and shove that in a pot and take that for lunch. but I also do the same level with my schedule for the week. So I do have a triathlon coach. it helps me understand not to get burnt out, not to overtrain. before I had a coach, I would like to go for a 5k run and run it every time trying to get faster and then get frustrated that I wouldn't run it faster each time, but I would do that four times a week and almost destroy myself in the process, and so now he helps me slow down in order to get quicker. so he schedules we chat about my week. I have some things that are non negotiable like on Tuesday nights I always go swimming at 7 45 p. m to 8 45 and it semi annoys me if someone invites me to an event or there's a party or there's something that needs to go on because I'm like That's my swim time I know it sounds ridiculous. And on Friday mornings, my husband takes the kids to school and so Friday mornings are my other swim time because swimming is harder to do because you're reliant on a public pool being open, for example, whereas a run, you can squeeze that into your lunchtime, you can go in the morning before work, you can go before the kids get up, there's lots of times that you can squeeze things in, so it's It's really important to look at your schedule and try, what my theory is, try not to interfere with everybody else's schedule to be over selfish, is the biggest thing. My husband likes training, not for triathlons, but he likes running, he likes to go to the gym, so I don't want to encroach on my time too much. Obviously, as you get closer to race day, so we're in off season now. I don't have any big races for four months, five months, four months, and so I'm not on a bill. So it's ticking over just maintaining fitness. It's just getting better, Fine tuning some of my. niggles or fine tuning some of the things we're not very good at, so it's easier. But as we get closer to race day, so in July I did, the Half Ironman Swansea, I had to schedule in four hour bike rides on a Sunday, which is quite a lot of your day when you already help with a run club and you have kids and they've got parties and everything. So it's about working together with your partner to make sure that they are On your side and want you to achieve your goal. And I have an amazing husband that's really, really supportive who helps me do that. And a lot of the times I also have friends that, I'm, I don't mind taking a lunch break to go for a run for an hour and a half. I do that or an hour. so I try to mix things into my day as much as I can, but without Sunday planning, I can't fit 10, 12 hours worth of exercise in a week. And it is so important to plan.

Perfect. It comes back to the same thing, doesn't it? It's feeling like you described earlier and I was sharing my, my own view about, it's not about the exercise per se, it's about the payoff or the feeling or all that good stuff afterwards. And, and actually it's the same with the, with the Sunday thing, isn't it? It's not about. Oh, because Sunday I've got to focus, got to do meal prep, maybe a bit of preparation, got to look at the schedule, talk to husband or talk to partner, figure out who's doing what. But if you bother to do that, if you choose to do that, okay, I'm going to commit whatever amount of time there's an hour or a couple hours of your day, that payoff is like the week sorted. Everyone knows what they're doing. No one's kind of, no one's time's being squashed because we've respected each other. We've spoken it through. And we open the fridge. Hey, there's some good stuff in there, which is really nice when you're like, Oh God, I've only got a short amount of time for my lunch. So it's really, such a, what I heard from that is thinking ahead, looking ahead. And from what you described, you're, you're quite a forward thinking individual from what you're saying about goal planning and that your, your orientation is quite future orientated, which is great. I think most of us are, we just need to see it and choose this is what my week looks like. What I find interesting. around dumping motivation. So if you're not motivated and, this time of the year, it's tough. I went to the gym this morning later than I would like to. I'd love to be in the gym at six in the summer and people who know me, they'll say, Oh, what time do you get up today? I'm like, Oh, half four. Cause I will literally get up when it's light. But the winter, of course, it's exact same. It's it's really tough for me to get up 15 right now. before first light. So I have to set an alarm at this time of year and it's tough. It's, it's really tough. So it was a bit late this morning, went to the gym, did my session, great session. And it's about figuring out the payoff, looking ahead. So I did the same thing for my partner. We do a diary check on a Sunday. It's who's doing what, where you at? we have dogs. So we have dog commitments. We have to do the dog walking twice a day and making it work. One thing I want to say about this is I had a client and he said to me, look, I'm in London. I've got this, I'm running a business. I want to do all my strength work and my extra conditioning work. I haven't got time. And then I said to him, Hmm, I'm not sure that's accurate because you've got these windows of time that you do at different times. You've probably got 30 minutes every day that you can maneuver with. And in a 30 minute session, you can do quite a lot. So if you bought some dumbbells or kettlebells or sandbags or training bands at home, you could put in a small drill at home. You don't have to go anywhere, you can execute. So I think when we bring a mindset of about looking at our time windows in the head and going, What can I do with that time window? It's a better way of coming at it saying, I need a three hour session at the gym and I don't have it so I won't do it. And I, and I wonder if that's how, you mentioned lunchtime runs and lunchtime training. Is that, is that something you do? You look at even if you've got a small time window and build something in?

Totally. I mean, one of my big things is micro practices or tiny habits. Um, it's like, you know, you've got time in the day that you don't realize you've got time. I'm a big thing about time management as well. So not doing things twice, or three times or four times, checking emails. As an example, people check an email on the phone, knowing that they're never going to be able to action an email until they get to the office. So I was like, okay, so what they do is read the email and it could be a challenging email. And they might read that at 7. 30 in the morning and they know that they're not going to get to the office until 9 o'clock, but in their mind it's replaying this email and they're suddenly distracted by this email which is taking up a lot of time. They then might be snappier with their partner, lose it with their kids, just get frustrated, a car cuts them up, whatever it might be, something might happen. They're still thinking about this email. They then get to the office, open the laptop or computer or switch it on, read the same email again, and then take an action and then wait for the result. That's a waste of an hour and a half in my time. And so it's like, did you need to do that? So when I say micro practices, I'm talking, if you are struggling to start with a fitness regime, things that I would say, so what do you currently do in your day that you always do? Do you put the kettle on, for example? So when the kettle boils, what are you doing? Are you checking Facebook or social media? Or could you do three squats while the kettle boils? There's three squats more than you did it every other day. Could you do that every time the kettle boils? Could you do push ups on the counter while the kettle boils? If you've got stairs in your house, when you get out of bed in the morning, could you, when you walk down the stairs, could you just run back up them and down them again? Okay, you suddenly got a little bit of cardiovascular boost just by doing that, and it feels really bloody good. when you get to your desk, do you sit down on a chair? Could you sit down, stand up, sit down? That's an extra squat. There's ways of embedding things into your day that you don't actually realise that you're doing. And these tiny little practices are brilliant. And then you realise that you might have done ten squats. Twenty Squats. You could do this with the dumbbells or whatever and it's a great way to get more activity into your day and then you've suddenly started this new regime.

Such a good point. I come across this so many times. I've coached many of my clients around these points. In fact, if anyone's received an email from me, on the bottom it tells you my working times when I'm likely to be around. It also says I don't get to check emails that much because I'm normally in session. I'm on my podcasting. I'm running with coaching clients and with S& C clients. I'm not basically staring at a screen and I'll check it when I can at the appropriate times, like you're saying. So actually it says on the bottom of my email, which I'm going to say this is a free recycle. put on there. If it's important, send me an SMS because then I can see this pop up on my phone. If I need to, respond urgently to you, we can. And it's managing expectations. I can't, I want to say something around this point. This is so common, isn't it? That we live in a culture of busyness and there's such an addictive nature to what's probably a dopamine hit. Most people don't realize it, but you check an email. It's a dopamine hit, right? The phone and software is designed for dopamine hits. This is how it works. These tech guys work with psychology as we know how this stuff works. So be smart and realize that this is what's happening. You're getting in a habit. You've already mentioned habits, Camille, about building habits. If it's a habit, Oh, I'll quickly check my email. Don't. Get up in the morning, check my email, just build a new habit. Put those time boundaries in. And if anyone's stressed, the first thing we want to do is reduce cognitive load, right? So the first thing we want to do, how do you reduce cognitive load? That means the amount of processing your brain has to do. Don't fill it with more information. It's that simple at its basic level. So by looking at your phone, if you have a habit of checking, there is one hack or strategy, better word, that you can do. Breathe in, breathe out. should buy you around 8 to 10 seconds. That'll pull you out of your limbic brain, which is where your habit cycles are. It'll pull you into prefrontal cortex where your executive thinking function is and make you go, Hmm, I remember hearing Camille talk about this and maybe say, I'll mention something about this. I don't need to check these emails right now. I'm going to go to the gym or for a run or take my kids to school. I'll pick up on the email when I'm at my desk. So such a good point, isn't it? Thank you. That's a really important point because managing time is actually about managing energy in my experience. There's time is time. Time doesn't change. It's the energy and the application of what you do with your energy in that time that matters, which is why some people can become a pro sports person and run a business and goodness as well. And someone else struggles to, hold down a, a regular job and it's all overwhelming because managing one's energy when there are so many distractions is an absolute sacrosanct thing for mental, emotional and physical health. So yeah, it needs to be said, it needs to be said if you're trying to build a training plan, Manage your cognitive energy as much as your physical energy. Now I'm really want to talk to something, which is, we spoke about this, we've alluded to this, but let's get to this. The payoffs. Now there's a lot that's known in science around, more current science about mitochondrial health. Quick, science lesson. Mitochondria are, the energy organelles that are in our body. mitochondria help produce the energy called ATP, adenosine triphosphate. They are actually a non human cell. So it's believed a long, long time ago, they merged with human cells. These, these, mitochondria. What's been found is that mitochondrial health is vital for mental health, emotional health, physical health, energy. And I don't know anyone that doesn't want a bit more energy. when I coach people like, would you like more energy? It's yeah, definitely give me. And actually cardiovascular activity, strength building, actually, all physical movement activity helps build mitochondrial health and Anyone who says I haven't got time because I'm tired, that already suggests you need more energy. So then the caveat is, how can we help you build more energy? We need better mitochondrial function, and we know that cardiovascular activity of any nature and some strength activity of any nature will develop that. It's a win. So for those who are like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, running and all this, it's no, no, no. This, this running down the road will help you run a business better. And I've got someone in front of me right now, Camille, who actually does that. So we know this! stuff. Now I'm intrigued to know, can you give an example of your experience of when your energies, obviously as a woman with the experiences of your natural cycles, which are different to men's, but of course you're much more, they're much more flowing and change how you are like high and low. How do you manage your energy and what do you notice you get from exercise and your, and your routine that you do?

Okay, so I spent a lot of time studying female hormones as well, so I do help people understand what I call like a monthly cycle, because there are, what I would, it's very common to have four cycles as part of a traditional cycle, so if you think about it like winter, summer, spring and autumn. certain times of the month you are reclusive, you want to, recluse inside in winter and, maybe do less in those few months, few weeks than you do if you're in summer and you're full of energy and you've got your testosterone is high because women do have testosterone and it does elevate around ovulation. So actually, that is the time to do more exercise. So actually, if you're going to plot your Weak plan, you might as well over pin it with where you are energetically, hormonally for women as well. So I'm often found doing that as well. and actually some new, devices. So if you have a Garmin watch, for example, you can now add on your cycle tracking. So sometimes it's like it's harder to get going. I am not a morning person. I actually hate the mornings. I would love to sleep till nine o'clock in the morning every day and probably go to bed at, midnight, one o'clock. But that's not reality, and when you've got kids, they've got to get to school, and, I have a husband who is literally the biggest energetic person in the morning, he's get up at six o'clock and then go, and I'm like, ugh, could I just crawl under the duvet a little bit longer? So actually, having someone like him around is fantastic, because this morning at ten past six, he's can you just put your feet on the floor and get up, because you're going on your bike, and I was like, I don't struggle actually anymore to get up, as much because I love training. I loved the fact that this morning's bike session was probably a little bit harder than I was expecting at twenty past six this morning. but I felt euphoric afterwards and it was one of those training sessions that I walked through the door sweating and my kids were like just crawling out of bed at 7. 20 and I'd already done an hour of exercise. I felt fantastic. My husband had gone for a run. I was on the bike in the house. We didn't leave the kids on their own. Just don't, don't, just to put that in perspective. And, it was amazing. We both were like euphoric and really happy and it was great. Start contrast to a different day where you stay in bed a little bit longer. but energetically, we as women do have peaks and troughs and it's able to understand that a trough shouldn't be a month or two months or three months. There could be something underlying going on. You should have a natural cycle. So around your bleed time, you are actually have quite a lot of energy. Paula Radcliffe ran, broke her record for the marathon, actually, on her, period. And, last year, or this year, it was earlier on this year, in the Ironman press, a lady, was seen to be bleeding through her tri suit, and a lot of the press said, oh, you should have cropped that off. cropped that photo and she was like why would I crop the photo? I'm out for a nine, ten hour race. no type of support is ever going to catch all that, so it's the most natural thing in the world. Why would I crop it? Just normal. And I think we need to have those conversations as women because we need to understand that. So actually in the early stages of your cycle, you are actually very energetic. You have more energy. The middle part of your cycle, you have the most, that's when you can schedule in the higher workouts, the more intense, because that's when you're gonna get the most gain. And then the, the last couple of days, seven, eight days before you start to bleed again, just rein it in a little bit. And there's nothing wrong with that. my favourite saying is a 5K run is still 5K if you run it in 40 minutes or 20 minutes. It's still the same distance. And sometimes just getting out there and even walking it will make you feel better. Because the simple art of doing something makes you feel really good.

Yeah, that's beautiful. The art of doing something makes you feel good. Action is a very, done well, is a very sympathetic nervous system driving forward. So if we think about sympathetic nervous system, people have heard about this stress response. you've got fight or flight, really. We've got two ways that energy is going to go. You're either being hunted or you're hunting. Or, The Problem's Chasing You, or You're Chasing The Problem. Or, The 5K is going to stress you out and, make you miserable. Or, You're doing the 5K on a brisk walk because it's the only way you can do it today. It's interesting around, and I do a lot of work around stress response and these aspects of understanding flow. Fight, flight, and freeze, and how we can move through these spaces. They're all natural, but if we're biased towards getting away from it, Oh, I don't want to do it today. That's a flight response. Stay in bed. It's a shutdown response. Some break of the inertia moves you into, you can call it fight response, but what we really mean is engage, active, and mobilized. And what you said there, there seems to be some level of compassion. Certainly if you're a woman and you're at a certain point in your cycle, you're tired. It might look like it's a brisk walk today. Perfect. It's all a go. And that's still good enough. So it's very interesting. I've trained my partner through all these cycles as well. I see this with female clients. It's very, very important. In fact, I've got another podcast you guys need to look out for with about women's health. She goes into this in way more depth than I can speak about, but it's so important to be with this. And what I heard there, Camille, was that you were listening to your body. as a woman, it's even more important. I'm a mid life man. I can't listen to my body because sometimes I can't do what I want to do. But if we don't listen to our body, and we get caught up in an abstraction such as I should be doing this, and I should be doing that Watch those language patterns. That's about obligation. Sometimes it's about beration. Oh, it should be faster. Should be. What about you are? Maybe I'm, I'm soft today. I'm going to be a little easy today or today I've got so much energy. I'm going to go for it. There's an authenticity, isn't there? When you really listen to your body and go with it. And there's also less, internal conflicts. Some people call it resistance, but the resistance you feel, or any of us feel, is that we're not hearing the right approach. So in my experience, certainly getting fatigued, I got more energy in the summer because I'm light driven. I had the SAD condition to some quite extreme extent, it seems. In the summer, I can kill it, I can really work hard. In the winter, I've got to go a little easy on the weights. So although I can do a lot more weight, I back off my weight level, weight training level at the moment, so I don't get too fatigued. So that I can continue to do and enjoy the movement practice. So for sure, what you said at the early part, listen to your body. It goes for everyone, whoever you are, wherever you are, and working with it is going to get you far better gains and results. Now, I'd love to, bring this to a close. So we've spoken about how do you do it? How do you do what you do, Camille? And obviously I've joined you on that to my experience and it's wonderful to hear. If someone's listening and they're thinking, wow, okay, so I'm a mum or I'm a dad and I've got a business and I do want to shift. I want that energy. I want that feeling you guys are talking about. But I don't think it's me. I don't think I can do it. What would you say to that person who's doubting themselves, doubting they can transition from being maybe sedentary, feeling lethargic, but they do want to feel energized, they do want to feel dynamic, and they don't want to age in a bad way. What would you say to them?

I'd love to say just start with something. So there's lots of support that you can get. So one of the amount of clients I've put through the Couch to 5K is insane. Now, I'm not an ambassador for this app, but I think that breaks things down super simply. One of my clients was 69 and she said it was life changing and then she went to run, park, run with a son who's in his thirties and she just couldn't believe ever because she's actually got fatigue issues that she would ever be able to do that. I worked with a client in Iceland earlier this year and she had been on the sofa for 18. Hadn't got off the sofa. she used to do CrossFit. seven days a week was mega intense. And there was a lot of childhood unresolved trauma that she started working through. And then suddenly her body went into a shock, traumatic response, and her body shut down. And she was like, I can't do anything. And we looked at food and how to incorporate small exercises and, she sent me this photo of her getting her trophy. So about three months after we worked together, she got a medal of running her first 5k and she said it was life changing. And she just couldn't believe she could do it in such a short space of time. Now, it's not like I coach everybody to run 5Ks, this is not that. This is their specific objective and they just so happen to want to run because someone that they knew really enjoyed it. but anyone can do it, it's just taking that first step and having the support. there's so much things that you can do and it doesn't have to be running a marathon. It doesn't have to be, a hundred mile cycle race. It doesn't have to be any of those because everyone's objective is different. But especially those that have children, my objective is to be like, A young grandma, I want my kids to have, I want to live to 100, and we never talked about that, but I want to live to 100. I want to run a marathon on my 100th birthday. I want to do those, be physically fit and present for the next generations, because I think we have the opportunity to do that now with advances in, not just medical science, but like nutrition and natural sciences as well. And I think we have the objective to do that, but actually live to 100. Very healthily and be independent. And I think, in this world we've had a lot of reactive. So if something's wrong, fix it. But imagine if we could prevent it from happening in the first place. So it's about being a really good role model for your children or people around you or your, your colleagues or people that work for you about being healthy and happy. And fundamentally, you can achieve whatever you want to. And one of my favorite sayings on this. is people change best when they feel good, so when you start to feel good, That's when the real, amazing change happens. Don't feel guilty if you missed a workout yesterday. Just start the new day and get on with it. A new one.

Consistency is key, isn't it? Absolutely. And I love what you said there about starting small because it can be intimidating. So that can trigger a, either a flight or freeze response. Oh, I can't do it. Start small. It might look like brisk walking twice a day and you walk up a hill and it might look like you start that for once a month and then it's perhaps to catch the 5k. Zumba class. Perhaps you go and hire a PT and Instead of spending your money at the pub, spend your money on a P. T. Whatever it is that is your pathway, we all, the thing that makes you smile, so whether it's getting back on a bike like you did as a kid, running about, kicking a football, doesn't matter.

also, sorry, it's also things like dancing. a vigorous dancing in your own house for 20 minutes burns about, I don't know, 200 300 calories. I'm not a big calorie counter, but it also feels really good. So put your favorite music on in the kitchen and dance around with your kids. Get them all involved. Get them off their devices and things like that. It just makes you feel really, really good. So it doesn't have to be as well that structured cycling, PT, golf, whatever. It's the quirky other things. It's just about moving and enjoying those things. it's one thing that I really recommend.

Thank you for adding that. Yeah, it's such a, such a key point that actually, yes, we've been speaking, and it might seem in terms of, yes, as you say, structured exercise and movement, but movement. So there's, we don't have the time for this today, but there is, there was a study done which looked at people who were sedentary and they exercise say after work or before work and they weren't that much healthier than, than people who didn't do anything. Because if you sit and if you have a not, if you're a knowledge worker, if you're a desk worker, you're sitting a lot. If you sit for more than around 30 minutes, those major muscle groups in your legs start to become inactive. There. Inactivity has a conversation with your metabolic system, i. e. your blood sugars, i. e. how you, process food and everything. That means you start to go into a different state, as opposed to getting up every 30 minutes, maybe a standing desk, a little dance, three, three squats at the kettle. Movement throughout the day. Movement is medicine. Life is flow. If we think of a river, stagnate, old pond, it's not moving. Don't be like that. Be like the fresh river. It flows and it means constant movement. And I want to finish on one last thing for, I've been around the block a long time now, which always amazes me what age I am. Cause I'm like, how did I get to that age? I didn't really feel it. So I'm 52 and I am super active. I wasn't always. So it's come to me later in life. And of course you and I spoke about this Camille and you've, we've, we shared it here that actually you may start later in life. But if you're going to live to a hundred, which is really easy in today's world because of modern sciences and good nutrition, the very things we can do, you Want to end up. I want to end up in a really good way. So my 70s, 80s, 90s, I know what I want to do. I don't want to do. And I had a, another person called Toby on a recent podcast and he said he uses this, this, this process. He often imagines he has a stroke and like how awful that would be. And that's the terrible thing to happen. And it motivates him to get up. So sometimes it can be, what don't you want? And I know I don't really want to be in, unable to move. Unable to do things I love to do. So that means I invest my activity now. So when I'm older that I feel I have a dynamic body, better energy, my brain is working very well. So actually long term health pension is one of the best investment investments you can ever make. So find your compelling reason, whether it's your kids, whether it's your future, whether you're really a hundred, whether you want to look good, it doesn't matter. Find a compelling reason. start small and recognize that it's all possible. Role models like Camille show you this. I wrote role model, whatever, if you think of that for me, it's possible. It's never too late, whatever age you are, and the body is an adaption system, as is the brain. Give it the conditions, it will adapt to those, whether that's the sofa or the gym. play with that, as always, if you have, thoughts, comments, catch me on the pop page, or the social, media that you might have heard this on, I do. comment and share your thoughts. Camille, thank you for your time sharing your wonderful story. you're glowing. I can obviously, Camille, I can see you. You're glowing. It's good energy. And you, you mentioned you're around 40 and stuff, and isn't it great as a, as a slightly mature part of one's life that you can feel more energized and love that whole feeling. It's, it's priceless, right?

It is, it is possible. so much for having me.

Absolute pleasure. all of Camille's details will be in the show notes to learn more about her wonderful business, The Float Spa. We haven't got this, there's so much more. Maybe, maybe she'll come back and join us again for another podcast episode, but all details will be there. Until the next time, dear listener, make notes, absorb, take action. I'll talk to you on the next one. Take care.

Thank you so much for listening If you enjoyed the episode please subscribe and if a friend would benefit from hearing this do send it on to them as well If you would like to get in touch yourself then you can go to my website which is sal jeffries.com spelled S A L J E F E R I E s sal jeffries.com Hit the get in touch link and there you can send me a direct message If you'd like to go one step further and learn whether coaching could help you overcome a challenge or a block in your life then do reach out and I offer a call where we can discuss how this may be able to help you Until the next time take care