I'm here right now at the American Public Transportation Association

TRANSform Conference where the T does it pretty well here in Boston.

I'm Paul Comfort and this is Transit Unplugged, the world's

leading transit executive podcast.

And I just had a conversation with Winston Toh, who is the general manager

for Tower Transit running bus service in Singapore, where the LTA, the Land

Transport Authority operates what's considered one of the finest examples

of integrated transit in the world.

Listen to Winston today tell you about how his company is a big part of that

on this episode of Transit Unplugged.

great to be with Winston Toh, who is the managing director

of Tower Transit in Singapore.

Winston, thanks for being on the show with us.

Thank you.

My pleasure.

Great to have you with us again to talk about public transportation in Singapore.

Those who are fans of the show will know we spent quite a bit of time in

Singapore a couple years ago and did an episode of our TV show there and

talked to Jeremy Yap, who's the deputy director of LTA Land Transport Authority.

Winston, tell us about what Tower Transit does there.

Well, we are one of the four public transport operator in Singapore.

We operate two out of the 14 bus contracting model package in Singapore.

And that is about 15% of the total route that Singapore operates.

We operate a total of about 60 routes.

We have about 800 public city buses and we have got two packages.

One package is called Bulim Bus Package, and the other one is

called Sembawang-Yishun Bus Package.

Singapore, I think it has one of the best transit systems in the world.

I've been all over the place and I know it's been ranked that way

in many rankings, but amazing the amount of people that ride public

transportation in Singapore.

Seven and a half million trips a day.

Talk to us some about the island itself, where it's situated, and kind of give

us some of the background for people who aren't familiar with Singapore.

Well, Paul, you are near Rhode Island.

We are just about maybe a quarter of the size of Rhode Island and Singapore will

fit right inside Washington Beltway.

And we have got about only 5.9 million people.

And part of it also, there are tourists that comes in and out, is a very

popular tourist destination as well.

And we have been told that we are one of the best city for public transportation

building about 7.5 million trips per year.

About 5,800 buses operating on our roads daily.

And a total of about 400 bus routes.

And the fare is something that is commendable.

We keep the bus fare very affordable for people.

Like, as an example, you know, is between $1 and 19 cents to

a maximum of $2 and 26 cents.

And our senior citizen gets concession and they start at 69 cents for the first

3.2 kilometer, and you'll probably spend only about $1 and 2 cents the whole day.

Right.

The public transport system is well integrated between bus and the

trains, so it support each other.

You have one card and you can switch from train to buses.

Just using the one payment card.

And you have a rail service there takes about 3.4 million people a day.

The light rail, 210,000, but the bus is the heavy hitter, right?

Yes.

3.8 million passengers a day.

I mean, that's, if you have 5 million people there, pretty

much everybody's riding it.

It sounds like the bulk of the people ride transit, right?

Yes.

Yeah.

In fact, that is one of the government initiative trying to

make, move people from private transport towards public transport.

Right.

You all were one of the first cities in the world to have congestion charging.

When I was there last time, Jeremy drove me around and showed me, you know,

there's the gantries, here's how it works.

Just like we started in New York City this year.

Yeah, it's a economic cost.

You know, if you don't manage the time, there's a economic cost for that.

And I think if we were to be in some of the other Asian city, you

realize that you want to get from one place to another place for meeting.

Sometimes for a two kilometer route, it take you two hours.

So these are really challenges.

So for Singapore, this is not an issue.

If people prefer to drive, they can take the car, but actually,

public transport will take you to your destination much faster.

So tell us about Singapore itself.

It's like a city state, right?

And it's located close to Malaysia.

So it's probably, if you wanna put it, it's quite in the

center of Southeast Asia, right?

The tip of the entire Asia continent, where it links the Indian Ocean to the

South China Sea, and that's one of the most important trade rounds in the world

from the early turn of the centuries.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I love the spicy crab there and the food marts and all that stuff.

The outdoor food market.

I remember going there getting all kinds of different food that

we did it on the show actually.

Tower Transit though.

Really the name Tower Transit for a lot of people, they may think

of it as British because it kind of started there, I think, right?

And then came into Singapore.

Yes.

The people who started in UK, London.

Well, because of the Tower Bridge in London, they started

our transit, London, TTOL.

And then the same people founded the Singapore one, where it came

in, they won the first contract to operate in Singapore in 21-5.

And we commence operation in 2016.

So that is part of the group Tower Transit.

Here in America, I'm head of I'm the executive director of a group

called the North American Transit Alliance, which represents the six

largest bus contractors in America.

And, I've noted numerous times that across the world, cities and agencies

like Singapore, they actually contract out most, if not all of their public bus

service, the fixed route bus service.

Here in America, it's not that way.

Here in America, a lot of the paratransit, which are the vans for people with

disabilities is contracted out, but a much smaller percentage of the

fixed route buses are contracted out.

Tell us how that works over there and what are the results?

Actually in Singapore, you know, everything works right and

it's because of the government intervention in centralized planning.

When you have a centralized planning system, there's

lesser waste stages, right?

So therefore there is this train system plus a bus system coming

together to ensure that all the population bases are being covered.

Yeah.

And constantly they keep improving.

And because every of the constituencies has got their member of parliament

right, and they will also fight for their citizens in the area to

have coverage, I would say every inch of the land is covered by some

form of public transport services.

Wow.

So through the centralized planning by the government, they will then, well divide so

far, they have divided into 14 packages to cover possibly the geographical area, but

they intercross each other because some of the route are called trunk services,

and some of them are the feeder services.

So the feeder services are the one that serve the last

mile interest of the commuter.

They finish their train, you know, come from CBD, go home and they

take the feeder service back to their home in a very short trip.

Whereas at the same time we are also covering some part of it are trunk

services that people also prefer to take buses rather than train.

So we have got all this coverage, so there's lesser wastage

with this form of planning.

Yeah.

I love how safe it is there too.

I remember being there, and a buddy of mine that was with me said, that works

there, said Paul, "Literally, I could go out into the park at midnight with

my laptop and work and I don't have to turn around and, you know, worry if

somebody's gonna come up and knock me over the head." It just, it doesn't happen.

There's just really almost, you know, it's virtually crime free is what he said.

We have got a very strict gun control in Singapore.

So, first of all, life are not a stake.

Secondly, I think over the many years we have cleaned up quite a lot of

drug related things, and that reduced the crime rate and much now things

are very safe over the many years.

Yeah.

Tell us about how long you've been there and then talk to us about Tower

Transit, how long they've been there.

Yeah.

I've been in with Tower Transit for about six and a half years now.

And Tower Transit has been here for nine years.

So in the first two and a half years, I was not with them.

And, I took over in 2019, beginning of 2019.

I've been with them since then.

And, just a little bit of background, I was a military officer, career

military officer in the Singapore Armed Forces for many years.

Out there after, I've got a few other commercial jobs before I landed on

this about six and a half years ago.

Yeah.

That's great.

And you all are part of the Kelsian Group, right?

Which is out of Australia.

Yes, yes.

Yeah.

Great people there.

I've had several of them on the show.

I'm very impressed by the operations of the Kelsian Group.

It was through them I think that I was able to connect with you.

So it was great.

Talk to us about some of the expansion you've got now you've got, you've

told us about what you already are doing there, but aren't you going

into Sentosa Island Bus operations?

As to the expansion, so what we do now is that currently

I'm operating two bus packages.

The two bus packages comprise of about 806 buses, 60 of our routes.

Some are city direct services and all that.

So first part of the expansion is really, within the bus contracting model every

year there will be tender coming out.

So that part of the organic growth path is always there.

And, we have submitted a tender for a package called PT220, which

is a Tampines package, result will be out in the one two months.

So that is one part of the expansion within that itself.

The second part of expansion, you have heard it that we have won the Sentosa

contract to operate three guest services route, five employee services route, and

also a Beach Trend Services in Sentosa.

So that was, that is our first foray into the commercial bus business,

and that is the second part of the non-organic growth in that sense

into the commercial transport area.

And there are also other opportunity that is coming up and they came to us I guess

it's because of our reputation of being very reliable and service orientated

operator that people thinks that by having us there, you help them in their

branding as well as their operations.

So, there are many opportunity that came to us and we think that these

are opportunities for us continue to expand ourself in Singapore.

Yeah.

And where is Sentosa Island in relationship to Singapore?

Sentosa Island is a, it's a tourism island.

Okay.

South Singapore, right at the southern tip of Singapore.

Okay.

And it's all tourist, Universal Studio is there.

Oh wow.

Nice hotel there.

Beach resort.

Yeah.

Very nice.

Yeah, that sounds like a place I'd wanna visit.

It sounds fun.

That's great.

Now, I think it was Glenn, or someone was telling me about you guys have

some AI enabled safety system training.

And, I'm very interested in that and people here in the U.S. and I

know everywhere in the world, are interested in trying to see how AI

can help improve what they're doing.

Tell us about what you guys are doing there.

Well, first and foremost, I think safety is top priority in the bus business.

And, you know, printed behind our safety vest is this what called Get Home Safe?

Can you see that?

Get home safe?

Yeah.

So it says get home safe.

Yeah.

On the back of the vest.

Yeah.

I think we are all very obsessed getting our people home safe as well

as getting the commuter home safe.

So we spend inordinate amount of time looking at safety related issues, right?

All the way plotting from the time they get onto the bus till the time

they go home, they get out the bus.

And that is for all age groups from wheelchair bound people to people that

has got invisible disability right.

To a 90-year-old people and things like that.

So that part of it, it covers a whole spectrum of safety and truth to it

is that the one that takes care of safety for this is our frontline

staff called our bus captains.

We call them bus captains because they are like captain, you know, piloting the bus.

And the bus captain has got a heavy responsibility of ensuring safety.

And, other than, you know, slowing down for the people,

gentle braking and all that.

There are also other road user that will affect the way he drives and

speed of the vehicle and all that.

And I would say that although Singaporeans are pretty good drivers, but there are

still errant drivers that cut into the lane, you know, suddenly stopping in

front of you and causing the bus driver to have to put on the emergency brakes.

So what we are doing now is to put in a lot more technology to help that.

And, shape the safety culture of our bus captains.

You know, in public transport, one of the pressure that we have

is keeping to the time schedule.

If every bus captain have to keep their time schedule, they will be very

anxious to do that, and therefore the safety behavior may be compromised.

We want them to have that peace of mind.

We monitor it at the back end, and if they're a bit late, we'll tell them,

say not to worry about it so that they can continue to drive safely.

And, we put in a lot more technology.

So one of the area which will affect driving is driver's fatigue.

So we put in a camera system right in front of them that monitor them, it's

called the effect management system.

The camera can look at them, but there's an AI behind it because there

are, there are many features inside there, whether it be closing your

eyes using a hand phones and all that, but there could also be possibly

false positive, false negative there.

So what we do is that we introduce AI there to analyze based on the different

factors, to say that this guy is genuinely tired and we should intervene right now.

Yeah, so like if a driver's eyes are closing or he is nodding

off, you can see that right.

Yeah, so we use AI to detect this false positive and to be able to

then address it at the correct time.

So this is one of them.

The other area that we introduce in technology is this thing

called

telematics.

So we have got a telematics system that discourage them from harsh

breaking, tight cornering, you know, back cornering and things like that.

So there is a light system there, it's like a traffic light system.

If they're okay, they're green if they're not, so, okay, they're amber.

If they get red means they have committed something that's quite serious.

So we actually give them an

award.

So they get $120

incentive, right.

And, most of them want to get this incentive, so they drive very carefully.

So in terms they shape their behavior, they brake very gently, you know, they

don't do harsh turnings and all that.

And that makes the commuter very safe and comfortable.

We also installed this start inhibitor where only our bus

captain can start the bus.

There were incidences that other people jumped onto a bus and start to drive the

bus away, and, you know, that is quite a, quite a weapon if you can be, right.

Yeah.

So, so these are some of the technologies that we introduced inside and some of

the AI technology involve also AI into the camera that if there are people who

come too close, you know, other road user that come too close, blind corners

and all that, you are beat off at the correct direction for the bus driver to

alert them of a danger, potential danger.

Yeah.

That's great.

We're talking with, Winston Toh is the managing director

of Tower Transit in Singapore.

Right after this word, we're gonna come back and ask him about the

culture of the operations there and also what they have planned for

the future right after this word.

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Now back to Paul Comfort for this edition of the award-winning

Transit Unplugged podcast.

We're back with Winston Toh, managing director of Tower Transit in Singapore,

one of the main contractors who are providing bus service with 800 buses

operating on the island of Singapore.

And, Winston, thanks for being with us today.

Now, you all have been there nine years, you've mentioned, and you've

got some, some key turning points and milestones in the company that

you've had since you've been there.

Talk to us about those.

Well, I use three words to describe that.

It's called 3D three dimension.

No, not three Dimension.

So first D is about, initially it's a doubtful future.

Alright?

And second D is

doubling the scale.

The third D is diversification.

So I'll talk about the first D. All right.

That full future, well, I came in at a point in time where my friend

here will call it the sinking ship situation where our relationship with

the authority and the union wasn't great.

And at that point in time, we only have one contract that's expiring

in about two and a half years time.

So I came in at that point in time and I basically re-engineered the

company and restructured it a little bit so that we can operate much better.

And through that period of time, we managed to build up a very open,

transparent culture where people are happy working like a little family here.

And that was a transition that we did very well.

Today, I must say the company has got a great culture, with

people happy working here.

The second one is doubling the scale, right.

At that point in time, we only have maybe one trip only, only one trip.

If we lose that, everything is gone.

We were very anxious about

that, and we put in for the next tender.

A

good proposal and we managed to win not only ours back, but also another package.

And that's where

how we expanded to 2 packages from there.

And the third one is diversification, as you know, after we have done that,

anyway, for your information, we have just got this, these two contract

extended for another two years, right?

To-

Congratulations.

-eight.. Yeah.

And then as part of the diversification, we have now won the Sentosa, bus packages.

And a few other opportunities has coming out, diversification into the

commercial bus business and also some of the engineering and maintenance

business for buses, which we are, which is part of our core capabilities.

Yeah, so these are the area.

That's great.

And talk to us about the company culture there.

You guys are pretty much staffed up, right?

You've gotten all your driver positions filled and mechanics and

you are standing out I understand as an employer who, you know, is really

good at attraction and retention.

What is the culture you have there that allows you to do that?

Well, I guess, I think we have to make everybody very happy

in working for this company.

Right?

So just a little bit about us is that we have been Singapore best employer, part

of the Singapore best employer two year for this year and last year as well.

And this year we are likely to get it another one.

Staff engagement is about 80%, which is very high, right?

And a great place to work certification has, we have got a work good,

great place to work certification.

I think that part of it have to do with our people first culture, right?

We take care of an employee very well.

As an example, we, every month we have got a free haircut.

Free massages when they come back, they're tired at the depot.

We give that free massage and haircut.

We have company events like family day as well as annual

awards night for them, right?

And, we walk the ground.

The leaders walk the ground every day.

Talk to the drivers.

Yeah.

Feedback and, yeah, so we reach out to them every day and we

adopt a very open culture.

A bus captain can walk into my office anytime.

That's the kind of culture that we have.

That's wonderful.

Yeah.

Yeah.

When I first started with them, we think that very important to have

a vision, mission, and values.

We crafted our vision, mission, and values, and that is something in which

every one of us embraced it, right?

And, today, even the values are being used in their assessments.

So we got a values "cities" C-I-T-I-E-S, and the first one is care.

The second one is integrity.

Third one is teamwork, followed by innovation, excellence, and safety.

So these values are in everybody and people are living it not

just hanging by the mouth.

And, these are very important part of it.

And recently we also have something that's just done, it's called a service motto.

We want to deliver positive experience at every touch point for

our staff as well as a commuter.

So therefore, we came up with this service model called People Moving People.

Double meaning people moving people is transportation, but people moving,

people in emotional sense of moving people through their experience.

And that part of it builds out our company cultures and we think that we have got

very happy employees working for us.

That's great.

So as I mentioned earlier, you all are part of a larger

group called the Kelsian Group.

How does being part of a large, you know, international group

influence your operations here and maybe you have an example or

two of cross border collaboration and how that's had a real impact.

Yeah.

Most recently we started to implement electric vehicle,

electric bus in Singapore.

And Kelsian Group started their implementation earlier than us and

they have got it in Sydney, right?

And they have got a hundred of buses in Sydney.

So before we actually embark on that, we actually went over to

Sydney and see how they set up this whole thing through that experience.

And LTA used to ask us for recommendation on some of the things and best practices.

And there was a trip that we brought LTA to London to learn

about the London operations, right?

So, and then the other areas, like for example, during tenders we share data

tasks together, for the tender, right?

And some of the people practices, we share about safety practices across the group.

Right.

Got safety moments that we share with each other.

Yeah.

That's good.

So let's look ahead then.

What do you see coming next for Tower Transit in terms of innovation,

expansion or partnerships?

I think I've talked about the growth, the diversification, and other

things that's coming right ahead is this subject called autonomous bus.

AV, AV bus, Recently, Ministry of Transport has started this journey

and they have already decided on some of the blueprint for the AV journey,

starting with, two routes that is recently tendered out for AV bus.

Another two precinct, one in called Kampongo, right?

They are starting end of the year and another one in Tinga where we are

operating, starting again for AV bus.

So this is the start of the AV journey, which we want to be part of it, and we

are starting to look at collaboration, partnership, and building capabilities

to be able to do the AV bus work.

Yeah.

Are they looking for like level four autonomy, level five?

Do you know, is it fully autonomous with no driver?

Yes.

In fact, there is already a bus in Sentosa that is without driver now.

So the only recently that they took out the driver.

So right now there is a bus that's operating without driver.

There are also buses that's operating in enclosed area.

For example, Ngee Ann Polytecnic.

There are buses that's operating there internally without driver.

Not without driver, with safety driver, but not touching.

Yes.

Not touching the steering wheel, right?

Yeah.

So we are approaching level four and level five now.

Okay.

Very good.

People who have never been to Singapore, have some of them have seen

pictures, I'm sure, of some of the buildings downtown that look amazing.

What's that one building called?

It's got like three tall buildings.

What is it?

Bay Sands.

Yes.

Yeah.

I went to the top of that last time I was there and I did the the picture

where it looks like the thing is pouring water into your mouth when

you're down in the, in the main, yeah.

I forget the name of that.

Lion.

Lion,

Yeah, that's it, the lion.

Yeah.

So, um, but there's beautiful scenery all around there too.

What would you say is one of your favorite scenic bus routes in Singapore?

You have to take service 1 0 6.

Okay.

Service 1 0 6 is one of our bus route that goes through this scenic route.

You pass through Botanical Garden, which is a World Heritage site.

You pass through Orchard Road the shopping belt.

They go right through Marina Bay area and you can see all the scenic places.

So's, anyone come to Singapore, please go and take service.

1 0 6, take 1 0 6 and send bus driver will take care of you.

There you go.

That's great.

And if you could make one improvement to the bus network tomorrow, if

you know the budget wasn't an issue, red tape, what would it be?

I'll tell you the most difficult, and that's what I wish for.

Okay.

It's called service delivery model for our bus captains.

The rest of it, I think technology, all this thing you can just

throw inside as it matures.

But the hardest part of it is shaping the culture of the people

to deliver positive services.

And, you know, behind us we just want to maybe say one day our service can

be like, you know, Singapore Airlines, SQ. We want to be like, you know,

Singapore Airlines, SQ of the buses.

Oh yeah.

Yes.

I love that.

That's great, man.

Yeah.

You know speaking of the airline, that's a wonderful vision for you to have.

People that visit the Singapore airport, what's that like big waterfall

like I saw there when I was in.

That thing is fantastic inside the airport.

Jewel.

The jewel.

Yeah, the jewel.

Yeah.

It's been a few years since I was there, but yeah.

That is great, man.

Well, Winston, thank you so much for spending some time with us

today to talk to me about your

operations there.

And, Glenn Lim, thank you so

much for helping to get this set up.

We appreciate it and we encourage people,

I mean.

I love Singapore.

I would love to come back there someday and see it all.

It's just a great place and you all have an amazing transit system kind of overseen

by the LTA, the Land Transport Authority.

And congratulations on

the great work you're doing.

I'll be

interested to see how your AV, your autonomous vehicles

work out there as well.

I know everybody around the world is looking to that.

Yeah.

Great.

Paul.

Hope to visit you soon.

Yes, now.

Alright.

Thanks again guys.

Thank you for listening to this episode of Transit Unplugged, the world's

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