1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,880 In the early 1990s, visitors to the Jefferson Memorial in Washington, D.C. 2 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:10,560 one of America's most iconic structures, were seeing something they weren't 3 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:14,160 supposed to decay. The white marble was 4 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:17,880 eroding faster than expected, stained by mysterious blotches that no 5 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:21,680 one could quite explain. Cleaning crews were scrubbing constantly, 6 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:25,240 but the more they cleaned, the more damage they caused. The maintenance 7 00:00:25,240 --> 00:00:29,080 budget was ballooning, and behind the scenes, frustration mounted. 8 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:32,400 Something was wrong, but no one could agree on the cause. 9 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:36,840 So the experts did what experts do. They brought in more 10 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:39,760 experts. Engineers, entomologists, 11 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:43,560 conservationists, each with theories, data and reports. And 12 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:47,160 there was talk of chemical erosion, pollution, faulty materials. 13 00:00:47,160 --> 00:00:50,920 One theory even blamed the nearby tidal Basin. It 14 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:54,520 was, in a word, overwhelming. Each possible 15 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:58,080 explanation spawned a new investigation, a new recommendation, a new 16 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:01,730 spreadsheet. But with all that information, the problem only 17 00:01:01,730 --> 00:01:05,050 got murkier. Then someone asked a 18 00:01:05,050 --> 00:01:08,770 deceptively simple. Why are we cleaning the monument 19 00:01:08,770 --> 00:01:12,530 so often? Well, they said, because of the bird droppings. 20 00:01:13,330 --> 00:01:17,050 And why are there so many birds? Well, because they eat the 21 00:01:17,050 --> 00:01:20,570 spiders. And why are there so many spiders? Because they eat the 22 00:01:20,570 --> 00:01:24,410 midges, the little insects that swarm the memorial at night. And why are there 23 00:01:24,410 --> 00:01:27,680 so many midges? A pause, then. 24 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:31,880 Well, because of the lights. We turn them on in the evening, and it draws 25 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:35,440 the insects from across the basin. That one question 26 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:39,040 and a willingness to ask why five times cut through the noise. 27 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:43,080 Instead of launching another task force or dumping money into cleaning and 28 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,760 pest control, they tried something radical. They turned the 29 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:50,560 lights on. Just a little bit later in the evening, the midges 30 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:54,230 stopped swarming. The spiders left. The birds found other 31 00:01:54,230 --> 00:01:57,870 places to perch. And the Jefferson Memorial, well, it started 32 00:01:57,870 --> 00:02:01,630 to recover. No fancy treatments, no special chemicals. Just 33 00:02:01,630 --> 00:02:05,190 one small change based on a clearer understanding of the system. 34 00:02:06,790 --> 00:02:10,310 Sometimes we don't need more information. We need 35 00:02:10,310 --> 00:02:13,910 better focus. The lesson here isn't just about monument 36 00:02:13,910 --> 00:02:17,470 maintenance. It's about how we approach problems, especially as 37 00:02:17,470 --> 00:02:21,270 creative pros and as leaders. Because, let's be honest, in 38 00:02:21,270 --> 00:02:24,450 our work, we're often buried under a mound mountain of information, 39 00:02:24,770 --> 00:02:28,570 strategies, advice to do, lists. We chase the next piece of 40 00:02:28,570 --> 00:02:32,130 insight, hoping it'll unlock clarity, when really we're just adding more 41 00:02:32,130 --> 00:02:35,650 noise to an already loud room. And all the while, the real issue, 42 00:02:35,650 --> 00:02:39,170 the core challenge, goes untouched. Creative work 43 00:02:39,170 --> 00:02:43,010 demands clarity. Leadership requires focus. But those 44 00:02:43,010 --> 00:02:46,610 things don't come from doing more. They come from cutting through the clutter, 45 00:02:46,610 --> 00:02:49,930 from asking better questions, and from doing less, more, 46 00:02:49,930 --> 00:02:53,570 intentionally. On today's show, we're going to talk about exactly that. 47 00:02:53,570 --> 00:02:56,970 How to minimize unnecessary work, get to the heart of the information 48 00:02:57,130 --> 00:03:00,730 we actually need and create systems that help us do our best work, 49 00:03:00,890 --> 00:03:04,610 stay focused and lead with clarity each day. This 50 00:03:04,610 --> 00:03:08,130 is Daily Creative. Since 2005, we've served up weekly 51 00:03:08,130 --> 00:03:11,490 ideas for creative pros and leaders who want to be brave, focused and 52 00:03:11,490 --> 00:03:15,170 brilliant every day. My name is Todd Henry. Welcome to the 53 00:03:15,170 --> 00:03:15,450 show. 54 00:03:21,290 --> 00:03:24,830 I am not where I thought I was to be. And when I was in 55 00:03:24,830 --> 00:03:28,630 my early 20s, my life was set to become an architect. That's what I wanted 56 00:03:28,630 --> 00:03:31,990 to be. And I got a great job coming out of school. That's Pat Flynn, 57 00:03:32,070 --> 00:03:35,190 entrepreneur and author of the new book called Lean learning. 58 00:03:35,750 --> 00:03:39,550 And in 2008, I was let go like many other people during that time. And 59 00:03:39,550 --> 00:03:41,910 I was lost because I had done everything the way I was supposed to. I 60 00:03:41,910 --> 00:03:45,670 was a overachiever, I was an over learner, 4.2 GPA, all the things, 61 00:03:45,910 --> 00:03:49,510 and yet still it was all taken away from me and my path was no 62 00:03:49,510 --> 00:03:53,050 longer. And so I scrambled for a bit. I fell into a state of depression 63 00:03:53,050 --> 00:03:56,490 and was just trying to find myself. And I ended up finding the world of 64 00:03:56,490 --> 00:04:00,330 podcasting and more specifically the world of online business. And I 65 00:04:00,330 --> 00:04:04,050 eventually started a business to help architects pass an exam called the lead exam 66 00:04:04,370 --> 00:04:07,610 that blew up and I was generating more revenue doing that than I was as 67 00:04:07,610 --> 00:04:10,570 an architect. And I said, wow, this is incredible. I have to share what I'm 68 00:04:10,570 --> 00:04:14,330 learning here. Started writing books in 2013, started speaking on stages, and lo 69 00:04:14,330 --> 00:04:18,100 and behold, I've been, I've become known as somebody who, at one point 70 00:04:18,100 --> 00:04:21,820 I was known as the crash test dummy of online business. Somebody who 71 00:04:22,140 --> 00:04:25,660 continued to try all kinds of different things, from niche websites to 72 00:04:25,660 --> 00:04:29,500 software companies. Sometimes it goes well, sometimes I fail. And either way, 73 00:04:29,500 --> 00:04:33,100 it's always a lesson for people. And what I've learned along the way is that 74 00:04:33,100 --> 00:04:36,940 the way that I approach the things that I'm trying to figure out has been 75 00:04:36,940 --> 00:04:40,700 pretty unique for a lot of people. That uniqueness is what compelled Pat to write 76 00:04:40,700 --> 00:04:43,980 his new book, which is called Lean Learning. It's about getting through all of the 77 00:04:43,980 --> 00:04:47,660 unnecessary and overwhelming information to the heart 78 00:04:47,660 --> 00:04:51,360 of what it is you're actually trying to do. Yes, when we think about 79 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:55,120 our consumption habits and with how much access we have to all different 80 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:58,960 kinds of things. Back in the day, information was valuable because 81 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:02,080 it didn't exist or it was hard to find or hard to get. In fact, 82 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:05,520 you could pay for information like an Encyclopedia Britannica and you were 83 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:09,200 immediately like, seen as, like, smarter because you had access to it where other people 84 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:12,920 didn't. Now we all have access to the same information. We're literally at a buffet 85 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:16,740 line of info at all times. And because we, our 86 00:05:16,740 --> 00:05:20,580 brains aren't evolved to learn how to consume all of this and organize it 87 00:05:20,580 --> 00:05:24,380 as it's coming in, we are now obese with information. We're moving slower. 88 00:05:24,460 --> 00:05:28,220 We feel not more inspired, but sometimes even less 89 00:05:28,220 --> 00:05:31,940 inspired or more deflated. As a result of that, we're moving much more slowly. Since 90 00:05:31,940 --> 00:05:35,740 the concept of lean learning is a number of principles that allow 91 00:05:35,740 --> 00:05:39,380 you to know when to say no to certain things, to learn where 92 00:05:39,380 --> 00:05:43,080 to lean into certain things. One of the first principles is the difference 93 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,840 between just in case learning, which is what we do, right? It's we almost 94 00:05:46,840 --> 00:05:50,600 treat information like food. If you're growing up in the caveman days or 95 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,640 whatever, and you came across some food you like, you hoard it, because you might 96 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:56,760 not come across that food again in the future. And so you take it all. 97 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,680 And now, with access to all the information, we still want to take it all. 98 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:04,440 And I remember running a survey once at a podcasting event, and I asked the 99 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:08,280 audience, like, how many of you are subscribed to more than five podcasts? Everybody's 100 00:06:08,280 --> 00:06:11,820 hand went up. How many of you are subscribed to 10? Nobody's hands went down. 101 00:06:11,820 --> 00:06:15,620 They were still up. 20, 30. Some people were subscribed to 50 102 00:06:15,620 --> 00:06:19,460 different podcasts. And I love podcasts. They're great. But if 103 00:06:19,460 --> 00:06:23,220 you're always consuming, not only do you not have time, but you're 104 00:06:23,220 --> 00:06:26,900 going to be pulled and pushed into all kinds of different 105 00:06:26,900 --> 00:06:30,580 directions and pretty much stay stagnant or worse. And so 106 00:06:30,580 --> 00:06:33,900 the concept of lean learning, again, is not just in case information, 107 00:06:34,380 --> 00:06:38,220 but just in time information, Figuring out what your next step 108 00:06:38,220 --> 00:06:41,660 is. You don't want to aim aimlessly. You don't want to be aimless in what 109 00:06:41,660 --> 00:06:45,420 it is you do. You still need direction. But what's that next step? You 110 00:06:45,420 --> 00:06:48,420 learn about that next step and then you implement 111 00:06:49,300 --> 00:06:53,060 getting to implementation. Getting to action is going to teach you more than 112 00:06:53,060 --> 00:06:56,740 trying to learn the entire process and then likely not even taking 113 00:06:56,740 --> 00:07:00,580 any action at all because you're overwhelmed. And this idea of trusting that 114 00:07:00,580 --> 00:07:04,360 information that you need on the next step is going to be there, and it 115 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:07,280 will likely be better by the time you're ready for it. And that's one of 116 00:07:07,280 --> 00:07:08,800 the main principles behind lean learning. 117 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:17,720 One of my favorite illustrations to use when I'm giving keynotes, especially when I'm talking 118 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:21,440 about creativity or leadership, is that of Dee Hawk 119 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:25,240 and his hierarchy of information. De 120 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:28,120 Hawk said there's a lot of noise in our world, but noise is not very 121 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:31,960 useful. Noise becomes useful when it achieves a cognitive 122 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:35,180 pattern, when it's combined with other noise and forms data. 123 00:07:36,140 --> 00:07:39,780 So data can be useful, but data really isn't all that useful 124 00:07:39,780 --> 00:07:43,620 unless it's combined with other data. If I just said 10 to 125 00:07:43,620 --> 00:07:46,940 you, that's not very useful. But if I said it's 10 minutes 126 00:07:47,260 --> 00:07:50,860 until this episode is over, then you suddenly have 127 00:07:51,020 --> 00:07:54,660 information. That's what you get. When you combine data with other data, you get 128 00:07:54,660 --> 00:07:58,340 information. But information itself is not all that useful because 129 00:07:58,340 --> 00:08:01,900 it can't help you make decisions. Information only 130 00:08:01,900 --> 00:08:05,500 becomes useful when combined with other information in a way that forms 131 00:08:05,500 --> 00:08:08,800 knowled knowledge. When combined with other knowledge becomes 132 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:12,520 understanding. And understanding is what allows you to be able to 133 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:16,320 see around corners. It's what enables you to be able to intuit, to 134 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:19,920 be able to make decisions. But understanding 135 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:23,640 itself is not the ultimate end. What we're aiming for 136 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:27,240 is wisdom. Wisdom is 137 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:31,120 knowledge guided by some kind of ethical framework, some sort of 138 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:34,690 decision making framework. So while knowledge can tell you 139 00:08:34,850 --> 00:08:38,570 which corners you might be able to go around, wisdom is what 140 00:08:38,570 --> 00:08:41,490 tells you which corners you should go around. 141 00:08:42,850 --> 00:08:45,970 Wisdom is closely aligned with creative intuition. 142 00:08:47,010 --> 00:08:50,570 And so if we want to be brilliant at what we do, we have to 143 00:08:50,570 --> 00:08:54,210 figure out how to get all of that noise that's in our world 144 00:08:54,290 --> 00:08:57,890 into some kind of meaningful system that allows us to 145 00:08:57,890 --> 00:09:01,610 choose which noise to pay attention to, to turn into data, to turn into 146 00:09:01,610 --> 00:09:05,030 information, to turn into knowledge, to turn into understand, and 147 00:09:05,030 --> 00:09:08,790 ultimately to turn into wisdom. But like Pat said, 148 00:09:08,790 --> 00:09:11,950 that's not easy to do. It's all about the results. 149 00:09:12,750 --> 00:09:15,630 So when you start to consider, okay, what do you want to actually see from 150 00:09:15,630 --> 00:09:19,470 this information that you are gathering and what might be the easiest way to 151 00:09:19,470 --> 00:09:22,710 get there? That's another principle in the book. It's actually a question that Tim Ferriss 152 00:09:22,710 --> 00:09:26,310 once asked me that has now become a part of my DNA of how I 153 00:09:26,310 --> 00:09:30,070 approach things is just to ask myself, if this were easy, what would it 154 00:09:30,070 --> 00:09:33,900 look like? And that way you can often remove most of the 155 00:09:33,900 --> 00:09:37,220 things that you are thinking about getting involved with to just get to that action 156 00:09:37,220 --> 00:09:41,060 piece. A lot of business owners might call it a minimum viable product. So like 157 00:09:41,140 --> 00:09:44,780 in the sense of learning, the minimum viable result, or at least first 158 00:09:44,780 --> 00:09:48,620 tangible milestone is what you're looking towards. So just learning enough 159 00:09:48,620 --> 00:09:50,900 that you might need, and it depends on what it is that you're trying to 160 00:09:50,900 --> 00:09:54,300 learn about, but even giving yourself some deadlines around that, okay, I'm going to Spend 161 00:09:54,300 --> 00:09:57,140 a week to learn about just this little thing that I'm going to do next, 162 00:09:57,540 --> 00:10:01,140 and then I'm going to assess whether or not that worked or it didn't, or 163 00:10:01,140 --> 00:10:04,660 whether I should persist or I should pivot. Pat says one of the biggest mistakes 164 00:10:04,660 --> 00:10:07,780 that creative pros and leaders make is they try to go alone. 165 00:10:08,180 --> 00:10:11,860 Getting some help around that is also really key. The understanding 166 00:10:11,940 --> 00:10:15,740 that we only know what we know, and we often can't read the label when 167 00:10:15,740 --> 00:10:18,740 we are inside the bottle. So that's why one of the first chapters in the 168 00:10:18,740 --> 00:10:22,340 book is about surrounding yourself with peers and colleagues and mentors 169 00:10:22,340 --> 00:10:26,010 and people who have gone down those paths before, because they 170 00:10:26,010 --> 00:10:29,730 can guide you through the experiences that they've had and mistakes that they've made as 171 00:10:29,730 --> 00:10:33,530 well. Thinking about the why behind it and what you're looking to get out of 172 00:10:33,530 --> 00:10:36,170 it, you can often reverse engineer, okay, I'm going to give myself a little bit 173 00:10:36,170 --> 00:10:38,530 of time. And then you just commit to it, right? You put it in your 174 00:10:38,530 --> 00:10:42,170 calendar to learn about and. Or take action on those things and you just 175 00:10:42,170 --> 00:10:45,850 commit to it. For example, recently I was learning how 176 00:10:45,850 --> 00:10:49,690 to do shorts, YouTube shorts, not so shorts or anything like 177 00:10:49,690 --> 00:10:53,010 that, reels, TikToks, that kind of short form format, which I had never really done 178 00:10:53,010 --> 00:10:55,780 before. So I said, okay, I'm going to find people who have done it well 179 00:10:55,780 --> 00:10:58,860 and see what they're teaching. I'm going to find one format that I'm just going 180 00:10:58,860 --> 00:11:01,740 to work on and experiment with, and I'm going to do it for 60 days 181 00:11:01,740 --> 00:11:05,380 straight and that's it. And I am going to start on this date and I'm 182 00:11:05,380 --> 00:11:08,700 going to end on this date. And that gave me parameters. I only had so 183 00:11:08,700 --> 00:11:12,460 much time to learn about this until I finally had to take action. It's similar 184 00:11:12,460 --> 00:11:16,140 to something in the book that I call Voluntary Force Functions. Putting yourself in a 185 00:11:16,140 --> 00:11:19,900 situation where there is a date where you have to show up. And day 186 00:11:19,900 --> 00:11:23,690 30 came around and I was only getting about 300 to 400 views 187 00:11:23,690 --> 00:11:26,450 per video, which isn't much in the grand scheme of things. And normally I would 188 00:11:26,450 --> 00:11:29,610 have given up. I would have said, you know, I've given myself enough time and 189 00:11:29,610 --> 00:11:32,970 I probably, this isn't going to work. But I said, no, 60 190 00:11:33,210 --> 00:11:35,970 days is what I'm going to give myself. That's what I've been told from others, 191 00:11:35,970 --> 00:11:39,290 that it might take that much time. So again, getting guidance from the outside. 192 00:11:40,010 --> 00:11:43,210 Day 35 comes around. Todd in one of those videos, hit 193 00:11:43,210 --> 00:11:47,050 750,000 views. And ever since 194 00:11:47,050 --> 00:11:50,850 then I can pump out a video now on on that channel, which is 195 00:11:50,850 --> 00:11:54,210 a Pokemon related opening a pack every day channel and 196 00:11:54,690 --> 00:11:58,410 a million views per day on on every new video, pretty much guaranteed 197 00:11:58,410 --> 00:12:01,810 at this point. It's turned into two and a half billion views in 300 days. 198 00:12:01,970 --> 00:12:05,770 It's turned into a separate five figure income and it's also 199 00:12:05,770 --> 00:12:09,610 led to incredible brand deals and opportunities like getting to get 200 00:12:09,610 --> 00:12:13,250 invited to a Detroit Lions game to open packs on their field and other 201 00:12:13,250 --> 00:12:16,930 collaborations that are in the works that I can't even share yet. All because I 202 00:12:16,930 --> 00:12:20,710 started and I gave myself enough time. And even if the Shorts experiment 203 00:12:20,710 --> 00:12:24,390 didn't work out, even if I didn't find success from it, it would have still 204 00:12:24,790 --> 00:12:28,390 been a win for me because I gave it a shot. 205 00:12:28,550 --> 00:12:31,990 I started, I gave it enough time to see and then assess 206 00:12:32,390 --> 00:12:36,070 and thankfully it worked out this time. I've used that phrase force 207 00:12:36,070 --> 00:12:39,830 function a lot with my clients. I'll tell people that frameworks are force functions, 208 00:12:39,830 --> 00:12:42,830 right? So when I come in, I teach a framework, I'm forcing you to have 209 00:12:42,830 --> 00:12:45,870 the conversation. I can't tell you the answers, but I'm forcing you to have the 210 00:12:45,870 --> 00:12:49,530 conversations that will lead to the answers. And I realized I've used force 211 00:12:49,530 --> 00:12:52,610 functions in my own life. Like when I write a book, like really committing to 212 00:12:52,610 --> 00:12:56,450 writing a book is a force function, because as much as maybe I have the 213 00:12:56,450 --> 00:13:00,170 research and the ideas and the framework for a book, there's so much 214 00:13:00,170 --> 00:13:04,010 that goes into a book. There's so much additional research and thinking that 215 00:13:04,010 --> 00:13:07,610 has to go into it. So like committing to the book channels your 216 00:13:07,610 --> 00:13:11,450 curiosity in a way that just letting your curiosity dry out on 217 00:13:11,450 --> 00:13:15,050 the plane won't do across a bunch of different projects. So what are some other 218 00:13:15,050 --> 00:13:18,640 examples? Like for people listening, what are some other examples of force 219 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:22,440 functions that can help them direct their curiosity in a helpful way? Yes, 220 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:26,000 this is great. So let's say you are going to. You want to learn a 221 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:29,080 language, right? Which is a very common thing that people want to learn. And 222 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:32,360 oftentimes we go, okay, what's the best app? And we get the app and we 223 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:35,800 have Duolingo and we are increasing our streak, but we're not really 224 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,600 applying these things nor have any reason to 225 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:43,320 make sure that we do the work other than we want to continue the streak. 226 00:13:43,700 --> 00:13:47,380 I think Tim Ferriss has practiced this. He's done something similar. He takes this 227 00:13:47,380 --> 00:13:50,940 kind of learning to the extreme, but it's still based on the same principles. It 228 00:13:50,940 --> 00:13:54,740 might be a conversation with somebody who speaks that language and only that language 229 00:13:54,820 --> 00:13:58,340 that you're going to have a month from now, you're going to be inclined to 230 00:13:58,340 --> 00:14:00,900 just not waste time and find out, okay, if I'm going to have a conversation, 231 00:14:00,900 --> 00:14:03,660 what are the words and phrases I need to know to at least kind of 232 00:14:03,660 --> 00:14:06,420 hold my ground for a little bit. He used to have a show on Apple 233 00:14:06,500 --> 00:14:09,940 TV back in the day. One of the first episodes was he was trying to 234 00:14:09,940 --> 00:14:13,650 learn Tagalog, which is the Filipino language. And he 235 00:14:13,730 --> 00:14:17,410 created a force function by being inter. He knew he was going to be 236 00:14:17,410 --> 00:14:21,170 interviewed on the news, like, within a certain period of time. So he knew he 237 00:14:21,170 --> 00:14:24,610 was going to be on Filipino television and have to speak Tagalog. 238 00:14:24,930 --> 00:14:27,730 So he didn't try to learn all the words. He just tried to learn the 239 00:14:27,730 --> 00:14:31,450 right ones that would make sense for that situation. But he did the work and 240 00:14:31,450 --> 00:14:35,130 he helped himself also by putting him in a position where he couldn't help but 241 00:14:35,130 --> 00:14:38,370 learn it. That's the other part of voluntary force functions. He 242 00:14:38,690 --> 00:14:42,250 lived with a Filipino family and just tried to absorb it in real 243 00:14:42,250 --> 00:14:45,970 time because he couldn't do anything unless he actually had to figure it out. A 244 00:14:45,970 --> 00:14:49,330 more recent example from my own personal life relates to fishing. In fact, 245 00:14:49,570 --> 00:14:53,370 I wanted to learn how to fish with a particular lure called a jig. 246 00:14:53,370 --> 00:14:55,890 And a jig is like a hook with a skirt on it. And it's an 247 00:14:55,890 --> 00:14:59,610 artificial lure. It's often very difficult to learn, but it can yield the 248 00:14:59,610 --> 00:15:03,330 biggest fish and the most fun bites. Really, we're talking 249 00:15:03,330 --> 00:15:06,920 largemouth bass. And I used to tie on a jig, and I'd 250 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:10,240 cast out a few casts, and I would just feel not confident with it at 251 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:13,400 all. So much so that I'd often put it down after a few casts and 252 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,560 go back to Old Reliable, the drop shot. And I'd catch fish using 253 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:20,240 my old Reliable. And I'd be like, yeah, cp, I probably don't even need the 254 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:23,440 jig. And even though I really want it to learn. So one day I knew 255 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:26,120 that I had to force myself to learn it. So I went out on a 256 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,680 boat and took nothing with me except jigs. 257 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:33,000 Literally, the only thing I could fish if I wanted to fish was a jig. 258 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,510 And I wasn't going to go home, right, because a bad day of fishing is 259 00:15:35,510 --> 00:15:39,070 still better than a day working. But I cast out a number of casts, and 260 00:15:39,070 --> 00:15:41,750 in that same moment where I wanted to give up on that and move on 261 00:15:41,750 --> 00:15:45,350 to something else that was more confident with, I couldn't. So I just kept going. 262 00:15:45,590 --> 00:15:49,430 And eventually, around 2pm hours of fishing, practicing, trying different 263 00:15:49,430 --> 00:15:53,110 casts, trying different motions, et cetera. I finally got a bite. I didn't get a 264 00:15:53,110 --> 00:15:56,750 fish yet, but I got a bite. And my confidence levels shot through the roof. 265 00:15:56,750 --> 00:15:59,710 Even I didn't. Even though I didn't get the result yet, I was seeing some 266 00:15:59,710 --> 00:16:03,470 progress, which was incredible. And by the time I finished the day, I 267 00:16:03,470 --> 00:16:07,110 ended up catching two and forever. Now I start with the jig because I am 268 00:16:07,110 --> 00:16:10,390 now very confident with it and it wouldn't have happened if I didn't force myself. 269 00:16:10,630 --> 00:16:14,230 So that's like a more environmental forcing of 270 00:16:14,550 --> 00:16:17,390 you having to do the thing that you want to do. And that. That worked 271 00:16:17,390 --> 00:16:21,030 really well for me there. Yeah, I love that. We had a researcher on a 272 00:16:21,030 --> 00:16:24,310 while back who talked about the importance of strategic failure, 273 00:16:24,790 --> 00:16:28,070 that failure is actually a very productive. We should not just 274 00:16:28,410 --> 00:16:32,050 tolerate failure, we should aim for failure. And it feels like that's the process 275 00:16:32,050 --> 00:16:35,610 you're describing because you're throwing yourself into something 276 00:16:35,850 --> 00:16:38,570 you're learning as you go, you're trying to figure it out as you go. And 277 00:16:38,570 --> 00:16:41,490 you know you're going to fail, but that's okay because each of those failures are 278 00:16:41,490 --> 00:16:45,130 going to propel you toward ultimate success. Is 279 00:16:45,130 --> 00:16:48,890 that descriptive of. That's spot on. There's a lot of mental barriers 280 00:16:48,890 --> 00:16:52,610 we have to go through to be able to achieve that, like imposter 281 00:16:52,610 --> 00:16:56,300 syndrome or procrastination or the fear of failure. 282 00:16:56,300 --> 00:17:00,020 All those kinds of things are weighing in our decision to continue on the 283 00:17:00,020 --> 00:17:03,580 thing that's. That begins to be difficult. But absolutely, it's the 284 00:17:03,580 --> 00:17:07,300 mistakes that you make that actually become the guide rails for 285 00:17:07,300 --> 00:17:10,620 you. Right. Oftentimes we think the mistakes are the things that are going to derail 286 00:17:10,620 --> 00:17:14,060 us, but that they actually become the guidelines the guide rails 287 00:17:14,700 --> 00:17:17,820 through, that you can move back this way or move back that way, or begin 288 00:17:17,820 --> 00:17:21,620 to understand things more from the doing. I, no offense to Berkeley, 289 00:17:21,620 --> 00:17:24,740 the school I went to to graduate with an architecture degree. But I learned more 290 00:17:24,740 --> 00:17:27,820 in my first week at like, in an actual architecture firm 291 00:17:28,460 --> 00:17:31,980 and how to apply those things than I did in five years of school. Those 292 00:17:31,980 --> 00:17:35,180 baseline foundational items were still key. However, 293 00:17:35,980 --> 00:17:39,820 what I really needed to learn I picked up so quickly because I didn't 294 00:17:39,820 --> 00:17:42,700 have a choice. I had a deadline and I had a boss and I needed 295 00:17:42,700 --> 00:17:46,510 to get these things done. And just if we look back on our 296 00:17:46,510 --> 00:17:49,430 lives, oftentimes we think about the things we've achieved and learn how to do, and 297 00:17:49,430 --> 00:17:52,950 it's not from just reading a book. And all of a sudden we understand it 298 00:17:53,430 --> 00:17:57,190 again. Those things that we learn are important that we know what to expect. 299 00:17:57,430 --> 00:18:01,070 However, at some point you eventually have to take action and do and 300 00:18:01,070 --> 00:18:04,750 fail and fail fast, as they often say. Or fail forward at least. And I 301 00:18:04,750 --> 00:18:08,150 think I once heard that fail is an acronym. First attempt in learning, 302 00:18:08,390 --> 00:18:11,690 as some people say, which I do agree with. A little cheesy, but I'm all 303 00:18:11,690 --> 00:18:15,130 about the cheesy because I like dad jokes, so I'll take it. Everything's better with 304 00:18:15,130 --> 00:18:16,650 cheese, right? Yeah, for sure. 305 00:18:22,250 --> 00:18:26,090 Pat Flynn's new book is called Lean Learning. We only scratch 306 00:18:26,090 --> 00:18:28,810 the surface of our conversation in this episode, 307 00:18:29,690 --> 00:18:32,810 so if you want to hear the full interview, you can do so for 308 00:18:32,810 --> 00:18:36,490 free@dailycreativeplus.com just enter 309 00:18:36,490 --> 00:18:40,050 your info and we'll send you a private link where you can listen to all 310 00:18:40,050 --> 00:18:41,690 of our full interviews. 311 00:18:43,610 --> 00:18:47,290 Hey, thank you so much for listening. Again, if you'd like full interviews, all of 312 00:18:47,290 --> 00:18:50,010 our full interviews, bonus episodes, and much, much more, you can get 313 00:18:50,010 --> 00:18:53,730 them@dailycreativeplus.com just enter your 314 00:18:53,730 --> 00:18:57,490 name and email and we'll send you a private feed. My name is 315 00:18:57,490 --> 00:19:00,930 Todd Henry. If you want to know more about my keynotes, about my books, and 316 00:19:00,930 --> 00:19:03,370 all of my work, you can do so at ToddHenry. 317 00:19:05,860 --> 00:19:09,700 Until next time, may you be brave, focused and brilliant. We'll see you then.