1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:06,240 What would it look like to start a community that was really, 2 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:13,600 it's for the people like Jesus would be for. Welcome to Heaven Earth 3 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:17,360 Church. I'm Ross Stackhouse, the founding pastor of Heaven Earth 4 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:21,200 Church. From the start, our heart has been to be a church for 5 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:25,400 people who don't fit neatly into church. We want to meet people 6 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,960 where they are and know their stories. Because in every story, 7 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:33,500 there is God's story. And this podcast, podcast is just about that. 8 00:00:33,500 --> 00:00:36,620 It's about inviting you into the stories of the people of Heaven 9 00:00:36,620 --> 00:00:39,740 Earth Church. So let's turn to the story. 10 00:00:42,060 --> 00:00:45,820 Hello, good people, and welcome to the Heaven Earth Church 11 00:00:45,980 --> 00:00:50,020 podcast. This is the church we look to make a lasting impact in 12 00:00:50,020 --> 00:00:54,180 our community. I am the one of the producers of the podcast. My 13 00:00:54,180 --> 00:00:57,940 name is Brad Miller. And one of the joys we have here at Heaven 14 00:00:57,940 --> 00:01:03,520 Earth Church is to connect up with people in our community. People 15 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:06,960 who attend are part of the church and they use this podcast 16 00:01:06,960 --> 00:01:10,840 as a tool to try to reach out and extend the good news about people 17 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:15,040 in our community to others who may be kind of checking us out and 18 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:17,800 see what Heaven Earth Church is all about. And so it's really 19 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:22,480 a privilege today that we have Jen Rice with us today here on the 20 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:25,960 Heaven Earth Church podcast to learn more about her and about her 21 00:01:25,960 --> 00:01:30,200 connections, about her life, what's going on with her and about 22 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:32,460 her connections here to Heaven Earth Church. Jen, welcome to our 23 00:01:32,460 --> 00:01:32,980 conversation. 24 00:01:32,980 --> 00:01:33,380 Morning. 25 00:01:34,020 --> 00:01:40,140 Yeah. Great to have you with us. Hey, Jen. And Jen is short for 26 00:01:40,140 --> 00:01:40,420 what? 27 00:01:40,420 --> 00:01:41,060 Jennifer. 28 00:01:41,060 --> 00:01:44,740 For Jennifer and Jennifer Rice or Jen Rice. And she as everybody 29 00:01:44,740 --> 00:01:48,580 around here knows her as Jen. And so glad we've been with. With 30 00:01:48,580 --> 00:01:50,820 the church here for several months. 31 00:01:50,820 --> 00:01:51,380 Five months. 32 00:01:51,780 --> 00:01:54,260 Five months, six months, something like that. And getting 33 00:01:54,260 --> 00:01:56,820 involved right away, some of those small groups and some of the 34 00:01:59,190 --> 00:02:01,310 regular tender and worship and some of the other things that we 35 00:02:01,310 --> 00:02:04,470 have going on around here. But it's a good opportunity for us to 36 00:02:04,470 --> 00:02:07,870 get to know a little bit more about. About you. So let's just start 37 00:02:07,870 --> 00:02:10,790 with hometown. Where are you from? A little bit about that for 38 00:02:10,790 --> 00:02:11,030 you. 39 00:02:11,030 --> 00:02:14,870 Yeah. I am proud to say my hometown is Union City, Indiana, 40 00:02:14,950 --> 00:02:19,230 on the Indiana and Ohio border. Half the towns on one side, 41 00:02:19,230 --> 00:02:21,350 half towns on the other. Super. 42 00:02:21,350 --> 00:02:23,270 Oh, yeah. That's literally one of those towns where the border of 43 00:02:23,270 --> 00:02:25,110 the state goes right through it. There's two or three towns like 44 00:02:25,110 --> 00:02:25,710 that. I know. 45 00:02:25,710 --> 00:02:27,210 Yeah. Time change is fun. 46 00:02:27,450 --> 00:02:29,890 Yeah. You ever heard the town over there, that part of the world 47 00:02:29,890 --> 00:02:30,890 called College Corner? 48 00:02:30,890 --> 00:02:31,370 Yes. 49 00:02:31,370 --> 00:02:31,770 Yeah. 50 00:02:31,770 --> 00:02:32,130 Yes. 51 00:02:32,130 --> 00:02:33,370 It's a similar thing there. 52 00:02:33,370 --> 00:02:33,810 Okay. 53 00:02:33,810 --> 00:02:37,690 Yeah. Where they in that town. I'm sorry to interrupt. In that town. 54 00:02:37,850 --> 00:02:40,730 The funny thing about that town, I found out is that the. They 55 00:02:40,730 --> 00:02:43,450 built the high school literally on the border of Indiana 56 00:02:43,450 --> 00:02:47,290 and Ohio. And the center court line of the basketball court of the 57 00:02:47,290 --> 00:02:51,050 old high school is the state line. So there you go. But I'm sorry. 58 00:02:51,050 --> 00:02:53,890 I'm sorry. You're from Union City, Indiana. Tell me something 59 00:02:53,890 --> 00:02:55,690 about cool about growing up in Union City. 60 00:02:55,690 --> 00:03:01,070 It's a wonderful town to grow up in. Small town. We had maybe 79 61 00:03:01,070 --> 00:03:04,230 in my graduating class. So, you know, you could be an important 62 00:03:04,230 --> 00:03:10,110 person if you wanted to be. Safe town, you could. We rode our 63 00:03:10,110 --> 00:03:15,830 bikes everywhere, you know, uptown to the pool, played all night 64 00:03:15,830 --> 00:03:17,030 long. Great time. 65 00:03:17,030 --> 00:03:20,510 Yeah. Neighbors and sound like you were involved with things, as 66 00:03:20,510 --> 00:03:22,230 you said, what you wanted to be involved with. What were some 67 00:03:22,230 --> 00:03:23,790 of the things you were involved with with your family or 68 00:03:23,790 --> 00:03:24,750 the school growing up? 69 00:03:24,750 --> 00:03:30,070 Yeah, lots of stuff in the school. Always in the convocations 70 00:03:30,150 --> 00:03:38,550 and the plays. And I had a job when I was 16 at a drugstore a lot 71 00:03:38,550 --> 00:03:42,870 of times in student council, particularly in the choir. 72 00:03:43,430 --> 00:03:46,710 Just stuff like that, all that kind of thing. Do you have mom, dad, 73 00:03:46,710 --> 00:03:47,310 brother, sister? 74 00:03:47,310 --> 00:03:48,950 Is this mom, dad, one sister? 75 00:03:49,110 --> 00:03:49,590 Yeah. 76 00:03:49,590 --> 00:03:50,990 Good family. Yeah. 77 00:03:50,990 --> 00:03:56,020 Awesome, awesome. So from Union City, where did life take you 78 00:03:56,100 --> 00:03:56,740 from there? 79 00:03:56,980 --> 00:03:58,660 I went to Ball State. 80 00:03:58,820 --> 00:03:59,380 Okay. 81 00:03:59,620 --> 00:04:05,380 I have a degree in special ed, teaching the deaf. But when I graduated, 82 00:04:05,860 --> 00:04:11,020 I decided that the teaching aspect wasn't what I really wanted 83 00:04:11,020 --> 00:04:17,420 to do. I was more interested in maybe helping parents with a newly 84 00:04:17,420 --> 00:04:20,580 discovered deaf child, something like that. But I took what 85 00:04:20,580 --> 00:04:24,790 I thought was a temporary job for an insurance company in downtown 86 00:04:24,790 --> 00:04:29,790 Indy and ended up staying there four years. And then I had 87 00:04:29,790 --> 00:04:33,350 my children and I was basically an at home mom for the 88 00:04:33,350 --> 00:04:39,030 most part. My husband I knew in school, we started dating my junior 89 00:04:39,030 --> 00:04:42,230 year in high school. We dated all through college, which is difficult. 90 00:04:42,230 --> 00:04:45,870 I was at Ball State, he was at Rose Hulman in Terre Haute. So we 91 00:04:45,870 --> 00:04:51,200 had to get through that. Finally got to marry him. And we've 92 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,040 lived in the Indianapolis area for a number of years in Brown county 93 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:55,720 for about 27 or 8. 94 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:58,040 And your husband's name and how long you been married? 95 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:01,640 His name is Dave Rice. Been married, let's see. Been together 96 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:05,720 50 years between dating and married. Married about 46. 97 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:06,520 Wow. 98 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:07,159 Long time. 99 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:12,280 Good for you. Yeah, that's awesome in and of itself, so. Well, 100 00:05:12,280 --> 00:05:13,880 that's wonderful. And you've got some children. 101 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:21,080 Yeah, we have two children. My son Evan is 41. My daughter's 39. 102 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:26,420 She lives with us. Us My son lives in Indianapolis also with his 103 00:05:26,580 --> 00:05:27,940 wife, who's a hairdresser. 104 00:05:27,940 --> 00:05:28,420 Okay. 105 00:05:28,420 --> 00:05:32,340 They have two children of their own adopted daughter, guardianship 106 00:05:32,340 --> 00:05:35,180 of another teen, and their grandmother lives with them. So he's 107 00:05:35,180 --> 00:05:35,940 a busy guy. 108 00:05:36,020 --> 00:05:41,820 All right. I guess. So you've done the marriage aspect. You've 109 00:05:41,820 --> 00:05:45,060 had a bit of a career. Not a bit. You've had a significant career 110 00:05:45,380 --> 00:05:50,620 and you've had life with you, raising your children and grandchildren 111 00:05:50,620 --> 00:05:55,300 now. So you've got some things going on with your family. And then 112 00:05:55,300 --> 00:05:59,420 you've lived in Indianapolis area for most of the last 40 something 113 00:05:59,420 --> 00:06:03,940 years, is that what you said? Yeah. And then. And then some years 114 00:06:03,940 --> 00:06:06,580 ago, you landed in Brown county, right? 115 00:06:06,580 --> 00:06:10,260 Yeah, yeah, we've been. We were there for seven years. Moved 116 00:06:10,260 --> 00:06:13,860 back to Indy area for another seven, and then we've been here since. 117 00:06:14,260 --> 00:06:19,140 Yeah. So you've been living in Brown county for. Wow. And so. And 118 00:06:19,140 --> 00:06:24,660 so that's just. Just better context. It's 25 plus miles from 119 00:06:24,740 --> 00:06:26,740 where we go to church here or something like that. I don't know. 120 00:06:26,740 --> 00:06:28,900 It takes me 37 minutes. I don't know what the message is. 121 00:06:28,900 --> 00:06:32,340 Okay. But I mean, it's not a. It's not a hop, skip and a jump. 122 00:06:32,340 --> 00:06:33,580 It's. It's, you know, it's a little drive. 123 00:06:33,580 --> 00:06:34,300 Close as anything. 124 00:06:34,300 --> 00:06:35,180 Yeah. There you go. 125 00:06:35,180 --> 00:06:36,180 Everything's 45 minutes. 126 00:06:36,180 --> 00:06:42,670 So it's close and so. But tell me something cool about living in 127 00:06:42,670 --> 00:06:43,870 the rural area of Brown County. 128 00:06:43,950 --> 00:06:48,470 We love where we live. We've been a church right before. This 129 00:06:48,470 --> 00:06:52,910 one was an hour away, but we just never felt to move because we 130 00:06:52,910 --> 00:06:56,990 love it there so much. We live on 17 wooded acres, have a pond. 131 00:06:57,070 --> 00:07:03,750 My husband is a reloader and target shooter. So he's got a range 132 00:07:03,750 --> 00:07:06,590 on the property and he can reload something, test it out on 133 00:07:06,590 --> 00:07:10,080 the porch, come back in and adjust things. And it's just a nice 134 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:11,320 place to live. It's very peaceful. 135 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:13,880 Yeah. So not many neighbors around. You're kind of in your own 136 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:14,200 place. 137 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:15,760 Lane of seven houses. 138 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:19,400 Okay. That's it. All right, well, good. Sound like you've got 139 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:25,399 what many might say kind of the idyllic rural life. So. And then 140 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:30,680 that's good. But tell me a little bit about your. Your faith 141 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:34,920 life or church life. Both growing up and in. More in an adult 142 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:35,200 life. 143 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:35,640 Yeah. 144 00:07:35,810 --> 00:07:37,450 Kind of start growing up. Did you grow up in church? 145 00:07:37,450 --> 00:07:38,690 I did not grow up in church. 146 00:07:38,690 --> 00:07:39,250 Okay. 147 00:07:39,490 --> 00:07:45,770 My husband did. We didn't as a married couple, didn't go to church 148 00:07:45,770 --> 00:07:49,570 until our son was about a year old. And we thought that was probably 149 00:07:49,570 --> 00:07:53,890 the responsible thing to do as parents is children in church. So 150 00:07:53,890 --> 00:07:56,410 we started going to a Methodist church. Ralph and Lucy 151 00:07:56,410 --> 00:08:01,850 Hill. Ralph was the pastor of that church at the time. So we went 152 00:08:01,850 --> 00:08:11,210 there sometime later, joined another church, a very small body, 153 00:08:12,490 --> 00:08:16,290 small enough that they really didn't have a pastor. So my husband 154 00:08:16,290 --> 00:08:20,650 and another man kind of co pastored the church through this 155 00:08:20,810 --> 00:08:28,970 time. Unfortunately, there was a leader in that church, a narcissistic 156 00:08:28,970 --> 00:08:29,210 man. 157 00:08:29,210 --> 00:08:29,530 We. 158 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:32,960 Anyway, it didn't go well. It didn't end well. 159 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:35,680 So there was some sort of a conflict in the church. Yeah. 160 00:08:36,560 --> 00:08:41,640 Not God's fallen, anyway. And then the last 10 years, we've been 161 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:46,240 at a church in Columbus. And I had no issue with that church. Still 162 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:52,200 like the people, like the church. But Lucy, we kind of reconnected, 163 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:56,040 had lost touch a little bit. Reconnected. And she said, well, 164 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:58,120 you know, until I go to Florida, you know, would you like 165 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:00,360 to come to church with me for a few weeks? So we just kind of spend 166 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:04,940 some time together. And so I came here, but not expecting. Really 167 00:09:04,940 --> 00:09:08,020 not searching for another church, but not expecting to love 168 00:09:08,020 --> 00:09:08,940 it, which I did. 169 00:09:09,180 --> 00:09:09,660 Yeah. 170 00:09:09,740 --> 00:09:10,140 And. 171 00:09:11,260 --> 00:09:16,300 Well, let's go back to some of that initial experience there. So 172 00:09:16,540 --> 00:09:19,740 you didn't grow up at church. You got involved with church. It 173 00:09:19,740 --> 00:09:22,940 sounds like you were pretty involved with church, including navigating 174 00:09:22,940 --> 00:09:27,060 a traumatic experience. And unfortunately, that's not an uncommon 175 00:09:27,060 --> 00:09:31,320 experience for people to have traumatic church experiences. And 176 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:37,600 then Lucy Hill invited you to check out Heaven Earth Church. And 177 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,160 so tell me a little bit about some first impressions and about 178 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,360 some initial reactions when you came to Heaven Earth Church. 179 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:44,720 I assumed you came with Lucy. 180 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:49,960 I did, I did. My first impression was that it was much smaller. 181 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:52,960 The church I'd been attending had maybe 500 people in it, which 182 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:57,890 I never could get comfortable with. The. The small group was really 183 00:09:57,890 --> 00:10:04,730 appealing to me. The more casual nature of it. I loved Ross's 184 00:10:05,370 --> 00:10:17,170 sermons. Was really connecting with the idea of the love God, love 185 00:10:17,170 --> 00:10:20,650 people. The emphasis on that. The emphasis on community, which 186 00:10:20,650 --> 00:10:23,730 is something had just really been stirring in my heart just right 187 00:10:23,730 --> 00:10:28,670 before I came. And so the talk of community and knowing what he 188 00:10:28,670 --> 00:10:31,590 was doing with the community and what the church was doing and 189 00:10:31,750 --> 00:10:35,190 just the sense of community within the church and on the outside 190 00:10:36,470 --> 00:10:42,790 was a real draw for me. And that was both a blessing and a difficulty 191 00:10:42,790 --> 00:10:46,230 because my husband's still involved with our. The church I just 192 00:10:46,550 --> 00:10:46,950 left. 193 00:10:47,030 --> 00:10:47,590 Okay. 194 00:10:47,670 --> 00:10:53,390 And so that's not ideal for us right now, but that's where we are. 195 00:10:53,390 --> 00:10:56,350 Sound like you're Kind of navigating that or making it work 196 00:10:56,350 --> 00:11:01,380 in one way or another. Yeah. So it's a little bit what got you 197 00:11:01,380 --> 00:11:04,500 attracted here and a little bit some of the points that were 198 00:11:04,500 --> 00:11:08,420 interesting to you. What keeps you here? 199 00:11:11,060 --> 00:11:18,820 The. Oh, gosh, just the continued community and the love 200 00:11:18,980 --> 00:11:27,790 and the. I guess the biggest draw for me is rebuilding, reconstructing 201 00:11:28,190 --> 00:11:34,510 who Jesus is and his heart. That I see emphasized a lot here, 202 00:11:35,470 --> 00:11:44,150 and his love and his heart behind all of the teachings. I tend 203 00:11:44,150 --> 00:11:47,750 to be a rule follower and want to know the rules where here I'm 204 00:11:47,750 --> 00:11:50,270 learning more of the heart and the heart behind. 205 00:11:51,070 --> 00:11:56,740 Interesting. You used a couple really interesting terminologies 206 00:11:56,740 --> 00:11:59,220 and phrases there. I think I want to unpack with you a little 207 00:11:59,220 --> 00:12:02,940 bit, Jen. Talk about rebuilding, reconstruction, reframing. 208 00:12:04,140 --> 00:12:09,220 So that kind of indicates that there was kind of some set of understandings 209 00:12:09,220 --> 00:12:13,260 about Jesus and about your life of faith that you have been 210 00:12:13,260 --> 00:12:16,980 in the process of maybe tearing down. Not tearing down in 211 00:12:16,980 --> 00:12:20,580 the sense of destroying, but tearing down to reconstruct it. Is 212 00:12:20,580 --> 00:12:23,660 that a fair way of putting it? So tell me a little bit about that 213 00:12:23,660 --> 00:12:27,880 experience of. For you in terms of how you have come to understand 214 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:31,320 your relationship with Jesus, your faith life, the Holy Spirit, 215 00:12:31,560 --> 00:12:34,400 things of that nature. Because I've got to know you as a person 216 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:38,040 who really goes deep in these areas. What are you learning about 217 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:41,480 yourself or about your life of faith in this reconstruction phase? 218 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:47,120 The traumatic church. I hate to say the traumatic church. It wasn't 219 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:48,800 the church. The experiences. 220 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:50,800 You had a traumatic experience there, Sally. Yeah. 221 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:58,560 Yes. That constant sense of, you're not good enough, you're not 222 00:12:58,560 --> 00:13:07,200 doing well enough, you're not enough. It took me a long time to 223 00:13:07,680 --> 00:13:13,800 tear that down and rebuild who Jesus says I am. And so I had to 224 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:24,580 study that a lot. And coming here, just that constant emphasis 225 00:13:24,660 --> 00:13:32,060 of, you are enough. God loves you where you are and will help you 226 00:13:32,060 --> 00:13:38,580 through the rest. That's been a real piece to my soul. 227 00:13:38,660 --> 00:13:44,740 So you felt pretty affirmed in that. So you kind of had relatively 228 00:13:44,820 --> 00:13:49,070 legalistic approach to understanding your faith in life 229 00:13:49,070 --> 00:13:53,030 and how, you know, I've got to adhere to certain standards or certain 230 00:13:53,030 --> 00:13:56,910 laws or certain judgments, this type of thing. And it sounds 231 00:13:56,910 --> 00:13:59,670 to me you're learning more about relationships, relationship 232 00:13:59,670 --> 00:14:03,230 building, and how it's a complicated, sometimes messy thing 233 00:14:03,230 --> 00:14:08,830 to do, and also about the primacy of grace. Is that a fair 234 00:14:08,830 --> 00:14:10,830 understanding of some of the journey you're going through? 235 00:14:10,830 --> 00:14:21,950 It is. And I would also say that I'm learning also that. I couldn't 236 00:14:21,950 --> 00:14:27,870 for a while understand that culture changes enough through the 237 00:14:27,870 --> 00:14:35,150 years that some of the things that were commands at the time have 238 00:14:35,150 --> 00:14:43,140 evolved and aren't the same. The concept is the same, but culturally, 239 00:14:43,540 --> 00:14:46,820 some of those things, that some of the reasons that those existed, 240 00:14:49,060 --> 00:14:53,740 we don't have it here. And so I've had to kind of relearn some 241 00:14:53,740 --> 00:14:54,180 of those. 242 00:14:54,180 --> 00:14:59,300 Yeah. So context matters, both biblically societal in our society 243 00:14:59,300 --> 00:15:03,060 and with everything else, technology, any, you know, our lives, 244 00:15:03,140 --> 00:15:06,220 our relationships, all that kind of matters. And yet I sense 245 00:15:06,220 --> 00:15:10,450 in you, Jen, that the Holy Spirit's doing a real work in you. 246 00:15:10,450 --> 00:15:14,050 And you've seen some manifestations of the Holy Spirit 247 00:15:14,050 --> 00:15:16,690 doing some work in you, in your life, in your relationship, 248 00:15:16,690 --> 00:15:19,330 your family, things of this nature. Would you say that's fair, 249 00:15:19,330 --> 00:15:23,490 for one thing? And if so, how is the Holy Spirit? How has this 250 00:15:23,490 --> 00:15:27,090 manifestation, how's this been come to fruition? Are there any stories 251 00:15:27,090 --> 00:15:28,290 that you can tell about that? 252 00:15:29,650 --> 00:15:33,810 Well, not coming from a Christian background, as a child, 253 00:15:35,610 --> 00:15:40,450 I am. I'm learning. I'm especially. I'm sorry we get a little 254 00:15:40,450 --> 00:15:44,250 lost here on my some thoughts, but I'm especially learning lately 255 00:15:44,970 --> 00:15:53,610 who Jesus, not only who he was and his miraculous life and his divinity, 256 00:15:54,170 --> 00:16:02,940 but his humanity also. To address something you asked, my daughter 257 00:16:02,940 --> 00:16:11,060 had been ill for about seven years with something called porphyria, 258 00:16:11,060 --> 00:16:16,700 which is a blood disorder, but it causes lots of other crashes in 259 00:16:16,700 --> 00:16:21,900 your body. And we had a lot of doctors and a lot of unanswered questions 260 00:16:21,900 --> 00:16:27,500 and lots of prayers. But we had an evangelist at our church one 261 00:16:27,500 --> 00:16:31,340 day, and he also prayed for her. And like I said, there had been 262 00:16:31,340 --> 00:16:35,560 lots of prayer for her. But this particular prayer I knew hit 263 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:39,280 home. And I don't even understand, just the Holy Spirit 264 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:44,680 hit something in me, and I knew that one hit home. And just 265 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:48,760 within a couple of months, we were seeing all kinds of changes 266 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:55,200 in her. She had been very ill, housebound, certainly bed bound, 267 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:59,120 often had to be homeschooled, that sort of thing. So it was really 268 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:04,250 bad. She just felt bad all the time. But anyway, within just a few 269 00:17:04,250 --> 00:17:07,170 weeks, couple of months, we were just seeing changes after change 270 00:17:07,170 --> 00:17:11,250 after change. Some of the illnesses that she had 271 00:17:11,250 --> 00:17:12,850 been diagnosed and the changes to the better. 272 00:17:13,090 --> 00:17:13,610 Oh, yes. 273 00:17:13,610 --> 00:17:14,290 Yeah, okay. 274 00:17:14,370 --> 00:17:17,490 The illnesses that she had been diagnosed with were retested 275 00:17:17,650 --> 00:17:23,210 and came back negative this time. And pretty soon she had two 276 00:17:23,210 --> 00:17:27,490 jobs. She had graduated school, taking, you know, pottery 277 00:17:27,490 --> 00:17:33,810 class, and just. It was just an amazing thing to witness. So you 278 00:17:33,810 --> 00:17:36,570 can't convince me ever that God's not a healer. 279 00:17:37,370 --> 00:17:42,010 Yeah, I like to call those yay, God moments. And when we just. 280 00:17:42,090 --> 00:17:44,690 There's something we don't quite understand. There's a mystery 281 00:17:44,690 --> 00:17:48,330 involved with this because one of the things, you know, we learned 282 00:17:48,330 --> 00:17:51,130 about the life of faith and life of prayer and things like that, 283 00:17:51,290 --> 00:17:54,090 we have these great moments. We also have some moments, like you 284 00:17:54,090 --> 00:17:56,410 mentioned, about the church going through trauma. We have other 285 00:17:56,410 --> 00:17:59,610 moments when we kind of don't get it, you know, when things go 286 00:17:59,610 --> 00:18:03,190 south. And we don't get that either. So it sounds like you've 287 00:18:03,190 --> 00:18:06,830 been a person who's faced your share of things in life and you're 288 00:18:06,830 --> 00:18:10,350 finding some way, both good and bad, and you're finding some 289 00:18:10,350 --> 00:18:13,630 ways to navigate that. And part of your experience here at Heaven 290 00:18:13,630 --> 00:18:16,750 Earth Church is part of the process of helping you do that. Is 291 00:18:16,750 --> 00:18:17,710 that a fair thing to say? 292 00:18:17,710 --> 00:18:23,710 Yes. And I'm back in studying even more than I had been back in 293 00:18:23,710 --> 00:18:28,800 a consistent Bible study. Joining the first, the Monday class 294 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:30,880 and now the Tuesday class. Getting to know people. 295 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:36,320 Yeah. Well, tell me how that's going for you. We're part of a class 296 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:42,160 together. And I know you're a very astute student of what is happening. 297 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:46,040 But tell me about that in terms of what is valuable to you 298 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:48,760 about the small group experiences that we have here at 299 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:49,680 Heaven or Church. 300 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:54,250 I started with the Monday group because that's where what Lucy 301 00:18:54,250 --> 00:18:58,410 was with. So I met with her group, got to know those folks. I 302 00:18:58,410 --> 00:19:06,810 call them friends now. We were studying the Beatitudes and discovered 303 00:19:06,810 --> 00:19:14,610 too the Bible project and learning some really deep things 304 00:19:14,610 --> 00:19:21,300 about the Sermon on the Mount. I decided at the kind of the. At 305 00:19:21,300 --> 00:19:25,540 the break that we took, that the church took to join the Tuesday 306 00:19:25,540 --> 00:19:29,460 group then so I would get to know them as well. Just a different 307 00:19:29,460 --> 00:19:37,220 group of people. And I'm doing the homework. I'm taking notes on 308 00:19:37,220 --> 00:19:42,100 the class because I don't want to lose the value of the class. And 309 00:19:42,100 --> 00:19:45,860 so I'm taking good notes, and that's just the way I do. 310 00:19:46,380 --> 00:19:49,220 And you're much better student than I am in terms of taking notes. 311 00:19:49,220 --> 00:19:52,940 I'll give you that. Give you. I'd certainly give you accolades 312 00:19:52,940 --> 00:19:56,300 that way. But it seems like you've also used this as a means 313 00:19:56,380 --> 00:20:01,420 to develop a deeper relationship with other people. 314 00:20:01,420 --> 00:20:04,420 Yeah, I made it a point to do that. That's one thing I wanted to 315 00:20:04,420 --> 00:20:08,140 be sure to do when I came is because I left all my friends. 316 00:20:08,220 --> 00:20:08,700 Yeah. 317 00:20:08,700 --> 00:20:10,860 And so I wanted to make new friends. 318 00:20:11,100 --> 00:20:14,250 And part of what I wanted to reflect with you about that, that 319 00:20:14,250 --> 00:20:17,050 just shows some initiative on your part. You're not just waiting 320 00:20:17,050 --> 00:20:21,090 for things to come to you. You know, it's one thing to be, you know, 321 00:20:21,250 --> 00:20:24,890 fed. It's also another thing to be feeding ourselves through the 322 00:20:24,890 --> 00:20:28,130 process of serving others, getting to know others, things of 323 00:20:28,210 --> 00:20:30,850 that nature. And so that's one of the things I want to talk to you 324 00:20:30,850 --> 00:20:35,690 about for a minute, Jen, in terms of how the nature of heaven 325 00:20:35,690 --> 00:20:38,690 or church, at least the intent is to ours will be a place of nurture, 326 00:20:39,550 --> 00:20:44,350 to be a place where people can grow interpersonally in friendships 327 00:20:44,350 --> 00:20:51,550 as well as spiritually and intellectually and their biblical 328 00:20:51,550 --> 00:20:54,869 knowledge and things like that. So one of the things that is 329 00:20:54,869 --> 00:21:00,030 even said about heaven or church is that this is if you don't 330 00:21:00,030 --> 00:21:02,630 fit in church, you fit in here. It's one of the models, is 331 00:21:02,630 --> 00:21:06,800 one of the mottos that's set here from time to time out of your 332 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,880 experience. Do you think that's true? And if so, how so? 333 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:17,000 Well, it goes against my introvert nature to put myself out 334 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:22,120 there to make friends. But since I've come, like I said, I made 335 00:21:22,120 --> 00:21:27,600 it a point to do that. So people have been very welcoming to 336 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:34,510 me. And so I'm learning, learning names, trying to get to 337 00:21:34,510 --> 00:21:42,510 know people, taking the classes. It's been. It's been good. 338 00:21:44,110 --> 00:21:47,870 Yeah, good. But you've also been taking the foundational classes. 339 00:21:48,270 --> 00:21:50,990 You know, kind of, you're involved with the small groups, which 340 00:21:50,990 --> 00:21:53,550 is interpersonal, with the foundational classes, which has to 341 00:21:53,550 --> 00:21:56,190 do with kind of understanding the doctrines of the church and things 342 00:21:56,190 --> 00:21:56,830 of that nature. 343 00:21:57,070 --> 00:22:01,200 And I did listen to a lot of the sermons. I listened to the podcasts 344 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:05,360 that we're doing today to get to know the nature of the kind of 345 00:22:05,360 --> 00:22:08,480 people who are here. And I feel like I just fit right in because. 346 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,880 Because of my trauma, I know there are a lot of folks in the church 347 00:22:13,360 --> 00:22:17,440 had some similar experiences. I went through about four years of 348 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:22,280 pretty significant depression before I could find some medications 349 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:26,000 that worked for me. And so, you know, I'm very free to talk about. 350 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,120 About that or to help people who've been through that also. 351 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,430 And I've seen you just observing you, seen you seeking to 352 00:22:33,430 --> 00:22:37,030 be not just relational, but helpful in your relationships with 353 00:22:37,030 --> 00:22:42,230 people. Yeah. And so it's not just, hi, how are you? It's, you 354 00:22:42,230 --> 00:22:45,310 know, really, hi, how are you? And I'm here for you at that type 355 00:22:45,310 --> 00:22:45,630 of thing. 356 00:22:46,990 --> 00:22:52,670 At the two churches ago, that didn't go well. One of my gifts is 357 00:22:52,750 --> 00:22:54,510 the gift of the gifts of helps. 358 00:22:54,510 --> 00:22:54,950 Yes. 359 00:22:54,950 --> 00:22:59,980 And that was always devalued there. So since I've been here, I 360 00:22:59,980 --> 00:23:01,940 Feel that resurging, that growing back. 361 00:23:01,940 --> 00:23:04,660 So you took some sort of a spiritual gifts inventory type of 362 00:23:04,660 --> 00:23:07,940 thing or some way to discern your spiritual gifts. Well, that 363 00:23:07,940 --> 00:23:15,500 is awesome to know in terms of the life of the church. There's some 364 00:23:15,500 --> 00:23:19,100 ways that we do worship here at Heaven Earth Church. It's a very 365 00:23:19,180 --> 00:23:23,260 conversational style of worship. People interact with the 366 00:23:23,260 --> 00:23:29,770 Pastor Ross, in many different ways. And for some people, that's 367 00:23:29,930 --> 00:23:33,410 just quite different than your experience of church. Tell me what 368 00:23:33,410 --> 00:23:36,010 your observation of it is. Do you think, does it work for you? 369 00:23:36,090 --> 00:23:39,130 And kind of. How did you react to it when you first. 370 00:23:40,890 --> 00:23:46,650 It's similar to two churches ago. My most recent church of 10 371 00:23:46,650 --> 00:23:50,770 years isn't like that at all. Because it's so large. You just can't 372 00:23:50,770 --> 00:23:55,010 do that. The format doesn't work for that. And so I've missed 373 00:23:55,010 --> 00:24:01,270 that. I've missed testimonies or people learning other people's 374 00:24:02,630 --> 00:24:05,910 thoughts on things. So I really like that. That was one of 375 00:24:05,910 --> 00:24:08,150 the draws for me. Really like that very much. 376 00:24:08,150 --> 00:24:13,270 Good, good, good, good. The mission, the statement of Heaver 377 00:24:13,270 --> 00:24:17,230 Church Estates, and it's on banners. We have a website and other 378 00:24:17,230 --> 00:24:20,790 places that we exist to make a lasting impact in our community. 379 00:24:23,110 --> 00:24:25,670 Just in your observation, the several months that you've been around, 380 00:24:25,670 --> 00:24:28,870 is that a true statement? And if so, how have you experienced that? 381 00:24:30,220 --> 00:24:35,700 It's true, from what I've read and from what I've seen personally, 382 00:24:35,700 --> 00:24:39,940 I can't participate in a lot of the outreaching things at the 383 00:24:39,940 --> 00:24:43,020 moment because I'm a little careful about how much time I'm spending 384 00:24:43,340 --> 00:24:44,460 away from my husband. 385 00:24:44,540 --> 00:24:45,339 Sure, of course. 386 00:24:45,340 --> 00:24:47,940 You know, like I said that with that being different churches 387 00:24:47,940 --> 00:24:51,980 at the moment, I'm a little cautious about that. But that's something 388 00:24:52,220 --> 00:24:56,540 ultimately, what I would like to do. I would like to see both of 389 00:24:56,540 --> 00:25:04,620 us here and living closer because community, it's stirring 390 00:25:04,620 --> 00:25:08,340 so strongly in my heart, but I can't seem to manifest it where I 391 00:25:08,340 --> 00:25:14,060 live. I'm from a small town. I would much rather. I'm much more 392 00:25:14,060 --> 00:25:17,380 comfortable in a small town. I'd like to get back to a small town 393 00:25:17,700 --> 00:25:21,540 where I can know the people in my area. I really don't know people 394 00:25:21,540 --> 00:25:22,340 in Brown County. 395 00:25:22,340 --> 00:25:22,890 Okay. 396 00:25:23,120 --> 00:25:25,520 And so that's something I would like to see, but something 397 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:27,360 I see emphasized here a lot. 398 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:31,720 Yeah. So the community aspect, both serving the community, but also 399 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,440 community in terms of developing relationships, are important 400 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,560 to you. And there's. It just sounds like there's a little bit 401 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:42,360 of transitions going on, learning, growing, you know, that 402 00:25:42,360 --> 00:25:47,080 type of thing going on with you. Very good, very good. Well, 403 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,520 you mentioned that you don't have a lot of relationships in the 404 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:53,670 community where you live, but I've seen you developing acute relationships 405 00:25:53,670 --> 00:25:57,150 here and I know that you've, you've family and so on that you 406 00:25:57,150 --> 00:26:02,870 live with. But I want to put this kind of a scenario in your mind. 407 00:26:04,710 --> 00:26:08,950 Let's just say that you have somebody in your life, Jen, who has 408 00:26:08,950 --> 00:26:13,270 confided in you about something going on their life. This 409 00:26:13,270 --> 00:26:16,030 may have been a co worker, former co worker, friend, family, 410 00:26:16,030 --> 00:26:20,230 neighbor, whatever. They've got something distressing, it could 411 00:26:20,230 --> 00:26:23,990 be whatever. It could be spiritual, it could be marital, it 412 00:26:23,990 --> 00:26:27,830 could be financial, it could be job related, any number of things. 413 00:26:27,830 --> 00:26:32,870 But they've confided in you and trust you in that. Do you think 414 00:26:32,870 --> 00:26:37,470 you would be comfortable enough with them to say, you know, 415 00:26:38,590 --> 00:26:42,190 like to invite you to have our church as a part of your process? 416 00:26:42,190 --> 00:26:45,030 I'm going to be helpful to you, but it's a part of your process 417 00:26:45,030 --> 00:26:47,600 of helping you to navigate what's going on in your life. Would 418 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,200 that be a part of. Would you be to play out this scenario with 419 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:52,480 me? Do you think that would work for you? 420 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:56,520 Yeah. This is the first church I would have answered yes to that. 421 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:03,160 The churches I've attended in the last 30 years have been more 422 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,800 Pentecostal and exuberant in their worship services which not 423 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:13,200 everyone, that's not everyone's taste. So I haven't always 424 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,520 felt real comfortable inviting people to church. But I would very 425 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:18,480 much hear, in fact, I have invited people here. 426 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:23,320 Yeah, good. Well, that's the greatest affirmation of what the 427 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:27,200 question I asked there, if you've actually done it. So then 428 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:31,320 just to kind of bring us around here and first of all, I just 429 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,920 want to thank you for being part of our conversation. It's been 430 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,000 a joy to get to know you and you know, in our small group and 431 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,400 things that we're involved with. But I'd like you to kind of 432 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:45,300 speak to. You're a person who has really used the tools that heaven 433 00:27:45,300 --> 00:27:48,860 or church has to offer in terms of worship. The small groups, 434 00:27:50,140 --> 00:27:53,300 the groups that have to do with the disciplines of the church 435 00:27:53,300 --> 00:27:56,660 or with the doctrine of the church. So you're taking every avenue 436 00:27:56,660 --> 00:27:59,860 to learn everything you can. You're being very assertive about 437 00:27:59,860 --> 00:28:04,420 it and very affirming about it. And you know, you're a sponge 438 00:28:04,420 --> 00:28:07,980 soaking things up but also sharing them with others in your 439 00:28:07,980 --> 00:28:11,500 way. I know you take notes of sermons. I see you take notes with 440 00:28:11,500 --> 00:28:14,100 small group. You're a part of, you've got, you know, take notes, 441 00:28:14,100 --> 00:28:16,420 even the podcast episodes we've done and that kind of thing. 442 00:28:16,980 --> 00:28:19,860 But I want you to speak right now for Jen for a sec for the first, 443 00:28:19,860 --> 00:28:25,420 who's kind of like Jen, who is a real researcher, a real person 444 00:28:25,420 --> 00:28:28,820 who says, I'm going to do my homework about this church, about 445 00:28:28,820 --> 00:28:31,780 the people here, about what they're about. So I'd like to like 446 00:28:31,780 --> 00:28:35,920 you to speak to anyone who may be checking out this podcast about 447 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,360 they're doing their research. What would you share with that person 448 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:40,800 but why they might want to check out Evner Church? 449 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,640 Well, that's easy because that's exactly what I did. Lucy. 450 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,520 Well, we used to meet for coffee every week and she would tell 451 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:52,320 me about the church and I was getting interested and I was wanting 452 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:57,080 to come and visit with her at the church. So I started listening 453 00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:02,480 to several of the sermons online and then I listened to a lot 454 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:06,800 of the sermons online and then I started listening to the podcasts 455 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,600 like we're doing here and getting to know people so that when 456 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:14,920 I did come, I knew what to expect and I knew some faces right 457 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:20,240 off the bat and I could meet someone and say, I got to listen 458 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,480 to your podcast and I know a little bit about you and hoping to 459 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:28,800 get to know you better. So yeah, that was a good way to go. 460 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:33,970 And then the small groups, you can't meet someone, can't know someone 461 00:29:33,970 --> 00:29:37,770 well in five minutes before church. So it's been nice having 462 00:29:37,770 --> 00:29:40,010 those small groups. I really, really like that. 463 00:29:40,490 --> 00:29:43,850 I think churches are, churches that work well, are healthy, basically 464 00:29:43,850 --> 00:29:46,730 have two types of groups. They have large groups, which is worship, 465 00:29:46,730 --> 00:29:50,530 things like that, and smaller groups which is, you know, either 466 00:29:50,530 --> 00:29:53,050 small group Bible studies or social groups. You know, the people 467 00:29:53,050 --> 00:29:56,850 who do some of the service projects, any number of things. And 468 00:29:56,850 --> 00:30:00,400 you have availed yourself to both of those. And I think I'm also 469 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,680 hearing you say, given some of the things you've shared about your 470 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,600 past experiences, that if someone's going to check out heaven 471 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:10,480 or earth Church, it's a safe place, kind of a non judgmental place 472 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,720 where they would have the opportunity to check it on their 473 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:18,240 own pace. Is it a fair thing? Anything else you want to share about 474 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:18,560 that? 475 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:23,800 I would like to say also about the non judgmental. I've been judged, 476 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,960 so I appreciate so. 477 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:33,040 So you felt a little bit of that kind of that, you know, pressure, 478 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,160 that squeamishness that comes when you feel judged and you're not 479 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:40,080 feeling that here. So any final words you want to share with, 480 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,360 with the folks maybe listening to this before we say goodbye. 481 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:48,960 Well, come and try it. Come and try it. You've got lots of opportunity 482 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,960 to check it out ahead of time if you're not comfortable being in 483 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:59,170 the building. But yeah, come for the service. It's, it's just 484 00:30:59,170 --> 00:30:59,770 a lot of fun. 485 00:30:59,850 --> 00:31:03,930 I love that. I love what you said there, Jen, about come and try 486 00:31:03,930 --> 00:31:06,770 it. Come and see. Basically that's what Jesus said, you know, 487 00:31:06,770 --> 00:31:10,090 come check it out, come see what it's all about and then come, 488 00:31:10,090 --> 00:31:13,730 come follow me. So I just want to say again what a joy it has been 489 00:31:13,730 --> 00:31:17,170 to get to know you here on the, on the podcast and in small 490 00:31:17,170 --> 00:31:22,010 groups. We are part of and in the life of the church and also you've 491 00:31:22,010 --> 00:31:26,130 just brightened up my day and I see how you just brighten people 492 00:31:26,130 --> 00:31:31,650 up when you're around them and that's a joy. Her name is Jen Rice. 493 00:31:31,650 --> 00:31:35,530 She's one of the incredible people that you can get to know here 494 00:31:35,530 --> 00:31:41,210 at Heaven Earth Church and we hope that you'll give a church that 495 00:31:41,210 --> 00:31:45,250 has a mission to exist to make a lasting impact to people a try. 496 00:31:45,570 --> 00:31:48,530 We are located on our main campus located on Main street in 497 00:31:48,530 --> 00:31:53,950 Weyland, Indiana. Our our main Service is at 9:30 Eastern Time on 498 00:31:55,550 --> 00:31:59,230 on both online and in person and you can always check us out online 499 00:31:59,230 --> 00:32:02,190 here at the Heaven Earth Church podcast. I'm the producer 500 00:32:02,190 --> 00:32:05,070 of the podcast and speaking for our pastor, Ross Stackhouse. 501 00:32:05,070 --> 00:32:08,910 Thank you for joining us here on the Heaven Earth Church podcast. 502 00:32:09,710 --> 00:32:12,750 We want to thank you for spending time with us today. My name 503 00:32:12,750 --> 00:32:16,680 is Ross Stackhouse, the pastor to Heaven Earth Church and you may 504 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:20,080 think out there that your story is over, but in fact your faith 505 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:24,200 story may just be beginning. If you want more information about 506 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,640 our church or you're interested in the next step, you 507 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,720 can go to heavenorthchurch.org otherwise we look forward to being 508 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,800 with you next time at the Heaven Earth Church Podcast.