1 00:00:01,590 --> 00:00:08,520 Hello and welcome to Bwb Extra where we get to know serial entrepreneur and investor Gil Brook a little better. 2 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:23,460 We hear how Giles got into the food and beverage industry, what life was like building innocent drinks, his ethics on work life balance, and how investors should treat founders and what he's most excited about for his current portfolio of projects. 3 00:00:26,220 --> 00:00:30,570 Okay, so let's wind the clock back to Young Giles. 4 00:00:31,155 --> 00:00:33,885 Fresh-faced, how did you end up doing what you're doing? 5 00:00:34,065 --> 00:00:37,305 Yeah, so I've, I've, I'm literally, I'm a bit of a consumer good lifer. 6 00:00:37,305 --> 00:00:39,735 So I, I did food marketing at Newcastle Uni. 7 00:00:39,855 --> 00:00:46,635 Jordy land food marketing does not sound like a, it's about, well I about to save you about just about six or eight, six to eight hours a week. 8 00:00:46,665 --> 00:00:52,905 Most of my friends thought it was basically coloring in stroke, scratching sniffer page to see what you know and tell what the smell was, that sort of thing. 9 00:00:53,025 --> 00:00:53,985 So yeah, so I did that. 10 00:00:54,045 --> 00:00:56,655 Um, and then essentially I've kind of. 11 00:00:57,275 --> 00:00:58,625 I've always wanted to go into food and drink. 12 00:00:58,685 --> 00:01:02,795 I started off United Biscuits, went to Coca-Cola, then went to Innocent. 13 00:01:02,855 --> 00:01:04,864 Really enjoyed innocent, some great guys there. 14 00:01:04,864 --> 00:01:06,545 Had a really lot of fun on the board there. 15 00:01:07,145 --> 00:01:11,705 Coke came into the deal, the boys wanted me to stay on, but I just harbored ambitions to do my own thing. 16 00:01:11,705 --> 00:01:19,535 So kind of met Andrew and Haley and obviously launched Bear with them and then obviously also met their invest in the, and the Vita Cocoa guys and we did the coconut water. 17 00:01:19,535 --> 00:01:22,535 And then since then, you know, kind of developed a portfolio and. 18 00:01:23,304 --> 00:01:28,225 You know, it's, I'm just lucky because I'm doing exactly what I always loved and I love doing, um, not everything's in food and drink. 19 00:01:28,225 --> 00:01:31,914 Now I've got, you know, I've got a couple of really exciting household sustainable brands and Neat. 20 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:33,804 Which is an eco cleaning brand, which is taken one. 21 00:01:34,325 --> 00:01:35,745 Yes, we are your client. 22 00:01:35,985 --> 00:01:36,185 I know. 23 00:01:36,265 --> 00:01:36,445 Yes. 24 00:01:36,445 --> 00:01:36,985 There we go. 25 00:01:37,345 --> 00:01:39,175 And then also, you know, the cheeky panda as well. 26 00:01:39,179 --> 00:01:47,905 So, you know, there's some really exciting, you know, brands in there and it's just about, It's doing stuff I enjoy with, but as I said to you, it's about doing, it's, it's as much about the people as well as the brand or the category. 27 00:01:48,145 --> 00:01:49,405 Are your parents into food and drink? 28 00:01:49,405 --> 00:01:49,795 Where's this? 29 00:01:49,795 --> 00:01:57,360 No, my dad, well that, that's when I was lucky actually, cuz my, my father was in textiles, but I was brought up in a way which was, Holidays, not holidays. 30 00:01:57,360 --> 00:01:58,770 You're working every holiday and stuff like that. 31 00:01:58,770 --> 00:02:00,300 So I always used to work within the business. 32 00:02:00,300 --> 00:02:03,089 So actually I think I got some business acumen pretty early on. 33 00:02:03,089 --> 00:02:03,240 Oh wow. 34 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:04,949 So during the holidays you put to work Yeah, work. 35 00:02:04,949 --> 00:02:07,740 And in textiles, he, he was manufacturing textiles. 36 00:02:07,744 --> 00:02:07,949 Yeah. 37 00:02:07,949 --> 00:02:09,269 So he was an agent or manufacturer. 38 00:02:09,275 --> 00:02:12,660 So basically he would provide the wool or the yarn or whatever it was. 39 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:21,240 To the knitters who would knit it up for garments for the different, you know, back then it was all the people like Top Shop and stuff like that, but obviously later it became like Asda with George and stuff like that. 40 00:02:21,630 --> 00:02:22,290 And he did that. 41 00:02:22,290 --> 00:02:27,960 But again, it was a very much a, it was a very tough, um, industry cuz like most things, guess what, it was a lot cheaper to, to produce abroad. 42 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:34,079 So of course the whole taxon industry, you know, unfortunately became a, a massive importer rather than a, um, self-sufficient UK business. 43 00:02:34,079 --> 00:02:35,040 But that, that was great. 44 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:35,850 I, I, I really en. 45 00:02:36,190 --> 00:02:37,420 You know, enjoy doing that. 46 00:02:37,420 --> 00:02:38,650 But it was, it was tough. 47 00:02:38,740 --> 00:02:39,609 Really tough doing that. 48 00:02:39,670 --> 00:02:40,150 Okay. 49 00:02:40,150 --> 00:02:44,380 That's, that explains a lot that, that gives you the grit of sort of, you know, knowing what run a business. 50 00:02:44,380 --> 00:02:45,850 In fact, growing up in a family business. 51 00:02:45,850 --> 00:02:46,000 Yeah. 52 00:02:46,005 --> 00:02:54,800 And I remember, I remember, you know, I could, I could say this dad, bless him, used to pick up bad debts the whole time because it was such a, Turbulent industry and there was so little margin in it. 53 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:58,280 And of course at the mercy of the big guys back then, we'd pick up bad debts the whole time. 54 00:02:58,700 --> 00:03:08,300 I remember, you know, dub was based in Lester and we'd be jumping in the van and we'd have to break into factories to go and try and get our pro go and get the the stuff back to try and recover as much money as we could. 55 00:03:08,540 --> 00:03:09,980 Cuz that's what it had to be cuz he didn't. 56 00:03:09,980 --> 00:03:17,150 Cuz of course what's happening back then as well was that, and I think it still happens today, is that the day before the business went bust, everybody would buy the assets back off the business. 57 00:03:17,150 --> 00:03:18,950 I eat like the knitting machines for like a pound. 58 00:03:19,305 --> 00:03:21,585 Clear all the debts and start up on the same site the next day. 59 00:03:21,590 --> 00:03:26,595 And, and of course we had an issue with that and I didn't, and my dad had an issue with that, so we'd go in there and get back what wasn't rightly ours. 60 00:03:27,734 --> 00:03:33,704 The innocent thing is interesting because so many, like, it seemed to be a place that attracted kind of entrepreneurial people. 61 00:03:33,704 --> 00:03:33,975 Honestly. 62 00:03:33,975 --> 00:03:36,405 You're surrounded by people that meet you look average every day. 63 00:03:36,405 --> 00:03:38,356 I was, I I, I bluff my way in there. 64 00:03:38,475 --> 00:03:39,495 I got in there somehow because I'm. 65 00:03:39,915 --> 00:03:41,655 I'm not very academic at all. 66 00:03:41,865 --> 00:03:48,315 I'm fairly commercial and bright, so I managed to get my way, but I've never been in a building with more academic and brighter people in my life. 67 00:03:48,315 --> 00:03:51,135 I mean, I couldn't, I mean, board meetings, I mean, you met people like Jamie Mitchell. 68 00:03:51,135 --> 00:03:52,725 Yeah, I probably understood two and five words. 69 00:03:52,725 --> 00:03:54,376 So I was there with a fau like, hi, like Jamie. 70 00:03:54,765 --> 00:03:59,295 Jamie Mitchell's a, is he, so Jamie, Jamie was a, he was a, he was basically the MD for a while. 71 00:03:59,295 --> 00:04:00,255 He's great, great guy. 72 00:04:00,435 --> 00:04:01,875 I sat on the board with him at Innocent. 73 00:04:01,875 --> 00:04:06,225 He went on and did Tom Dixon, and then also, I think he's chairman for the gao. 74 00:04:06,740 --> 00:04:07,790 Grill guys at the moment. 75 00:04:07,790 --> 00:04:08,120 Oh, okay. 76 00:04:08,180 --> 00:04:08,900 He's a lovely guy. 77 00:04:08,900 --> 00:04:11,810 But it was a, it was a real Andy Warhol factory of sort. 78 00:04:11,810 --> 00:04:14,660 Yeah, he was Harvard, you know, he lectured at London Business School. 79 00:04:14,660 --> 00:04:16,250 I was like, I'd like, I'd be like a what? 80 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:17,329 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 81 00:04:17,329 --> 00:04:27,170 But you could sort of tell people that spun out of innocent and did their own thing because the kind of ethos and the packaging and all that stuff, I, I always like quite similar to do pop into Sears cuz it's nearby me. 82 00:04:27,230 --> 00:04:27,470 Yeah. 83 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:31,910 And I was, did people, because I was like, they fucking crazy suggest they did. 84 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:38,760 We had load of people, massive fridge by the front door with, with bags next to it where you could just help yourself really about Barry. 85 00:04:38,820 --> 00:04:41,580 Barry was one of innocent's gracious fans, and he would regularly pop in the office. 86 00:04:41,580 --> 00:04:42,320 Barry would, would he? 87 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:43,240 And he had the whole tattoo. 88 00:04:43,620 --> 00:04:44,910 Tattoo and that tattoo and everything. 89 00:04:45,340 --> 00:04:45,560 Wow. 90 00:04:46,050 --> 00:04:47,130 An innocent tattoo. 91 00:04:47,250 --> 00:04:48,510 He's quite a cool word, actually. 92 00:04:48,510 --> 00:04:48,780 Quite indeed. 93 00:04:48,780 --> 00:04:49,080 Tattoo? 94 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:50,760 Yeah, innocent. 95 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:52,230 Oh, have you got another one that says Guilty? 96 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:52,600 Guilty. 97 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:52,720 Yeah. 98 00:04:53,280 --> 00:04:55,950 Everybody wanted innocent to launch an alcohol called guilty, right? 99 00:04:55,950 --> 00:04:55,980 Mm. 100 00:04:56,550 --> 00:04:58,040 An alcohol smooth that, that would be quite a good idea. 101 00:04:58,380 --> 00:05:01,560 But it was one of those things where everybody wanted to go down and get things signed. 102 00:05:01,935 --> 00:05:04,995 Because you've come back with bags of the stuff. 103 00:05:04,995 --> 00:05:05,625 Yeah. 104 00:05:05,625 --> 00:05:05,626 Yeah. 105 00:05:05,655 --> 00:05:07,755 Particularly when you, they were doing the veg pots and stuff. 106 00:05:07,755 --> 00:05:09,465 You could come back with food for a week. 107 00:05:10,575 --> 00:05:11,985 So do you have a long term girl? 108 00:05:12,525 --> 00:05:13,695 I'm probably living it now, right? 109 00:05:13,700 --> 00:05:21,375 I'm, I'm lucky and I, I mentioned to Pip before we started is that I, I kind of worked two and a half, three days a week now. 110 00:05:21,974 --> 00:05:22,365 Sorry. 111 00:05:22,365 --> 00:05:22,995 That's great. 112 00:05:23,025 --> 00:05:23,325 I know. 113 00:05:23,325 --> 00:05:23,715 Well done. 114 00:05:23,715 --> 00:05:29,715 You, I, I do, you know, I go and watch my kids play sport at school every week. 115 00:05:29,865 --> 00:05:30,375 I. 116 00:05:30,765 --> 00:05:31,665 Do a lot of exercise. 117 00:05:31,665 --> 00:05:35,895 Cause I do, I got myself addicted to this thing, endurance racing, which is basically swim, bite, run stuff. 118 00:05:35,895 --> 00:05:36,825 So I'm training a lot. 119 00:05:37,005 --> 00:05:39,885 So for example, the amount of people I piss off, you do a decathlon always. 120 00:05:39,890 --> 00:05:40,775 It's like a triathlon stuff. 121 00:05:40,775 --> 00:05:41,255 Yeah, triathlon. 122 00:05:41,255 --> 00:05:48,015 So the amount of people I piss off, cuz they'll be like, right, we're gonna put the, uh, next year we're gonna put the board meeting at Wednesday in the morning, week two. 123 00:05:48,635 --> 00:05:48,905 No. 124 00:05:49,145 --> 00:05:49,535 Why not? 125 00:05:49,985 --> 00:05:51,695 I go out with the guys on the bike every Wednesday. 126 00:05:51,725 --> 00:05:53,435 That's not, I don't have any ball meetings on Wednesday. 127 00:05:53,495 --> 00:05:53,795 Come on. 128 00:05:53,795 --> 00:05:54,305 Just one week. 129 00:05:54,485 --> 00:06:04,355 No, you have to make those rules, but you know what, and, and is it, I know this is gonna sound a bit, a bit contrived stroke, you know, you know, I g I gave up my life for about 10, 15 years mm-hmm. 130 00:06:04,361 --> 00:06:07,535 When getting, you know, bearing vodka, cocoa off, off the table and never like that. 131 00:06:07,535 --> 00:06:19,620 I'm, you know, Penny and I joke so Penny with my wife and joke cuz I occasionally I get the itch to start, do another one and Penny looks at me and goes, no, you cannot do another one, because I won't be around if you do because it literally six and a half days a week, 18 odd days. 132 00:06:19,620 --> 00:06:21,510 And I know, bless them, some people have to work that every day. 133 00:06:21,510 --> 00:06:24,840 But I've kind of done that and I'm just, again, it's a cliche, but that. 134 00:06:25,815 --> 00:06:35,055 You know, we've all got friends, you know, we've also got friends unfortunately are no longer around, all that sort of stuff, and I just, you know, I'm just a massive believer in kind of, you know, the whole kind of live to work versus work to live, etc. 135 00:06:35,055 --> 00:06:43,185 It's amazing that as, as certified workaholic about, That you've managed to flip to, I'm just gonna do these. 136 00:06:43,185 --> 00:06:44,565 Yeah, but he's not doing anything light. 137 00:06:44,565 --> 00:06:48,495 He's not having Chris with his mates, you know, chuffing weed on a Wednesday. 138 00:06:48,495 --> 00:06:55,305 Don't say still he's doing on a bike, trying to ride to fucking, ah, you know, he's not like, ah, now we know what he wants to do. 139 00:06:55,895 --> 00:06:57,065 Exactly what he wants to do. 140 00:06:57,645 --> 00:06:58,545 Fat underpants. 141 00:06:58,935 --> 00:07:00,765 No, I never, I never, I never stand still. 142 00:07:00,765 --> 00:07:03,015 But it's just, I dunno, you just, just do stuff you enjoy. 143 00:07:03,015 --> 00:07:03,225 Right? 144 00:07:03,225 --> 00:07:07,275 That's the, I'm lucky I can do what I, what I want to enjoy what I do, but it, but also tells what drives me. 145 00:07:07,275 --> 00:07:11,145 Because if it was about, Chasing the coin and trying to do deal after deal. 146 00:07:11,474 --> 00:07:15,045 I'd be working six and a half days a week and just going after it and after it, and I'm not about that. 147 00:07:15,045 --> 00:07:18,765 It's all, I just, I just do what I do and enjoying it, but I want the right lifestyle alongside it. 148 00:07:18,795 --> 00:07:21,344 You had a bit of luck, you got impact a lot, I think. 149 00:07:21,349 --> 00:07:23,836 I think innocent was the key moment it sounds like. 150 00:07:24,075 --> 00:07:25,486 You know, that gave me the platform, right. 151 00:07:25,755 --> 00:07:26,414 To do what I'm doing. 152 00:07:26,414 --> 00:07:26,416 Yeah. 153 00:07:26,425 --> 00:07:28,185 You've got the experience with Coke. 154 00:07:28,185 --> 00:07:29,685 You'd got a couple of things on the cvs. 155 00:07:29,685 --> 00:07:30,724 I mean, I was pretty good. 156 00:07:31,034 --> 00:07:31,844 Choice as well. 157 00:07:31,844 --> 00:07:32,385 I think that was great. 158 00:07:32,385 --> 00:07:35,865 Hey, I mean, that, that was hard work and took us a long way to get that, get that going. 159 00:07:35,865 --> 00:07:36,974 But that, that, that was great. 160 00:07:36,974 --> 00:07:42,675 And you know Andrew, Andrew and Hailey as the founder and Hailey as, as, as you know, she was kind of the real brand person. 161 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:46,305 She did a phenomenal job with that is bear the, um, I'm a mother. 162 00:07:46,365 --> 00:07:49,565 I was trying to buy sweets for my daughter and there were no healthy sweetss. 163 00:07:49,565 --> 00:07:50,865 Is that the story of Bear? 164 00:07:50,865 --> 00:07:51,675 I haven't looked it up. 165 00:07:51,945 --> 00:07:53,844 Just it's so often is the bear actually. 166 00:07:54,065 --> 00:07:56,835 But the bear story is really about ha Hailey is literally Yeah. 167 00:07:57,284 --> 00:07:58,635 All about putting goodness in her body. 168 00:07:58,635 --> 00:08:00,435 And she's always had a big issue with the fact that. 169 00:08:00,460 --> 00:08:08,469 You know, you know, trying to get, you know, kids to eat healthily, importantly, eat fruit and VE was very difficult and actually provide it in a format that works well. 170 00:08:08,469 --> 00:08:16,419 But importantly, you provide it in a format where it's not covered in soft dioxide or got concentrates or basic made like confectionary, and that's why bear with softly bake just a hundred percent pure fruit. 171 00:08:17,169 --> 00:08:18,219 Must sound like I still work for them. 172 00:08:18,219 --> 00:08:18,640 No, no. 173 00:08:19,630 --> 00:08:29,469 A really good thing I learned from that is if you want a completion meeting to go, well have a newborn baby at the completion meeting because all the light investors. 174 00:08:29,985 --> 00:08:32,955 You know, all the purchasers were just like, oh, hold the baby. 175 00:08:32,985 --> 00:08:38,804 But, but I've had a meeting, it was in this room when it was before this place was refu of my dad and I, and they had a baby. 176 00:08:38,804 --> 00:08:40,755 And then they said, do you mind if we breastfeed? 177 00:08:40,755 --> 00:08:43,034 And me and my dad were like, yeah, sure. 178 00:08:43,034 --> 00:08:50,850 And then we had to sit in there and we just sat there going, Then what happened to his first awkward situation in the world? 179 00:08:50,850 --> 00:08:51,060 Ever. 180 00:08:51,060 --> 00:08:51,300 Brilliant. 181 00:08:51,300 --> 00:08:51,660 Yeah. 182 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,530 What's the most misunderstood thing about what you do? 183 00:08:55,710 --> 00:09:04,710 I think the most misunderstood thing is people think everything's going really well and it's all rosy and it's nice and easy and whatever it isn't, it is still hard yards. 184 00:09:04,715 --> 00:09:05,970 It's all pretty tough. 185 00:09:06,010 --> 00:09:13,530 So the big, the biggest challenge for me, actually, what I do is actually, rather than the financial side or the business pressure, it's probably the, it's the people side. 186 00:09:13,530 --> 00:09:15,660 That's probably the most stressful bit, and I probably spend. 187 00:09:16,275 --> 00:09:17,235 Two, three hours a week. 188 00:09:17,505 --> 00:09:22,545 Actually not speaking to founders of the business I'm involved with and speaking to other founders who basically are in a real dilemma. 189 00:09:23,055 --> 00:09:28,005 I e the business is going south or else they've got investors who are being absolute. 190 00:09:28,845 --> 00:09:29,745 Asshole to them. 191 00:09:29,985 --> 00:09:32,625 Um, they'll, you know, they'll ring me up and flood of tears and stuff like that. 192 00:09:32,625 --> 00:09:41,175 And that's probably the most stressful thing for me, which is, you know, cause I, I just a big believer that you, you, you know, there's a way to deal with people and look after people and, you know, even in tough 193 00:09:41,175 --> 00:09:51,585 times and, you know, one of my businesses recently also had a, you know, had a challenging period and then some of the investors, you know, then had some clauses in a contract, which means that they could then convert. 194 00:09:51,870 --> 00:09:55,740 Stuff that meant that the founder was left with very little And I had a real issue with that. 195 00:09:55,740 --> 00:09:55,800 Yeah. 196 00:09:55,950 --> 00:09:59,280 And I said, you shouldn't be exercising that clause and like tough, like is happening. 197 00:09:59,820 --> 00:10:03,930 And I don't know, I just, it that's the bit that's, that's, well you, you are getting back to what I, it's not business. 198 00:10:03,930 --> 00:10:05,220 This, there's ethics involved here. 199 00:10:05,250 --> 00:10:06,510 Sometimes you should look at it. 200 00:10:06,510 --> 00:10:09,300 I'd, I'd rather walk away financially than have to deal with shit like that. 201 00:10:09,390 --> 00:10:12,420 It's, this is, this is probably the most difficult thing for me cuz I think it's also cuz. 202 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:20,410 Again, when I'm talking about certain founders who are about set of businesses, I also say to 'em, look, just make sure, particularly on sole founders, make sure you know what you're signing up to here. 203 00:10:20,410 --> 00:10:20,500 Yeah. 204 00:10:20,500 --> 00:10:21,700 Cause this is all encompassing. 205 00:10:21,700 --> 00:10:23,620 This is all consuming, you know? 206 00:10:23,620 --> 00:10:25,510 Well, when you're, when you are a sole founder. 207 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:26,470 Yeah, I think so. 208 00:10:26,470 --> 00:10:30,010 I think there's a couple of people I think have been successful founders. 209 00:10:30,870 --> 00:10:33,330 But there's some people who haven't been successful founders, but should have been. 210 00:10:33,390 --> 00:10:34,590 But they went into it the wrong way. 211 00:10:34,590 --> 00:10:39,330 They went in it alone and they should have gone in like so for example, we talked innocent earlier, Adam, Richard, and John. 212 00:10:39,330 --> 00:10:40,950 Three very bright guys that worked amazingly well. 213 00:10:41,020 --> 00:10:42,930 Very complimentary skill sets, right? 214 00:10:43,170 --> 00:10:47,370 John Satche, ops Rich brand, handwaving, brilliant Adam, very commercial. 215 00:10:47,370 --> 00:10:48,960 They worked to compliment each other brilliantly. 216 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,990 And also they shared the bullet burden across three shoulders. 217 00:10:51,990 --> 00:10:54,930 Cause everybody thought innocent was all, literally, that was just like linear. 218 00:10:55,230 --> 00:10:56,400 Growth solid to Coke. 219 00:10:56,850 --> 00:10:57,240 Oh my God. 220 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:06,360 It wasn't, you know, when massive commodity prices were a fruit costs went up and prices went up and we had the whole Janet Street Porter with, you know, fruit and smoothie sugar that was in a shaky position. 221 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:09,000 That business then, do you not remember the bottling thing? 222 00:11:09,005 --> 00:11:09,690 Yeah, well, exactly. 223 00:11:09,780 --> 00:11:11,520 This is what I mean, and people don't, but you know. 224 00:11:11,810 --> 00:11:16,250 If you've got other founders alongside you, it's easy to share that, I dunno how people do it on their own. 225 00:11:16,310 --> 00:11:19,340 And I, as you say, I don't one thing, one person can have all the skills. 226 00:11:19,340 --> 00:11:19,341 Yeah. 227 00:11:19,430 --> 00:11:19,580 Yeah. 228 00:11:19,580 --> 00:11:27,200 And some of my clients who, I could think of a few in my head that I say to them, you need to find your, your, your, all your other, your yin and yang. 229 00:11:27,230 --> 00:11:27,350 Yeah. 230 00:11:27,350 --> 00:11:27,650 You know? 231 00:11:27,655 --> 00:11:27,760 Yeah. 232 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:27,920 Yeah. 233 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:29,030 It's like dating. 234 00:11:29,030 --> 00:11:29,960 It's like, well, how do I find them? 235 00:11:30,290 --> 00:11:32,570 But that, that's what Sandy, that's, that's what also I talk about. 236 00:11:33,645 --> 00:11:43,785 You know, let's, you know, and lemme give you a great example of someone like, you know, PIP, it's a Pip Murray, who's Pippa Pippen Nut, which is probably one of the top five most talked about brands and food and drink Pippen Nut, which is the nut butter spread. 237 00:11:44,535 --> 00:11:46,574 Pip's the most beautiful person in the world, right? 238 00:11:46,574 --> 00:11:48,405 I, I can't talk hardly enough about her. 239 00:11:48,405 --> 00:11:49,484 And she's done an incredible job. 240 00:11:49,484 --> 00:11:54,405 Sh if anybody wants to be the benchmark for B Corp business people not is definitely, you know, that business. 241 00:11:55,245 --> 00:12:00,420 Um, but we got a situation where, She was definitely just throwing ab everything into the business. 242 00:12:00,540 --> 00:12:07,500 And the other thing I also say to, to the founders, I don't care how busy you are, a lot of investors want, want their, you know, want, want the founders to sweat and sweat. 243 00:12:07,500 --> 00:12:08,040 I'm like, no, no. 244 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:09,270 It's about balance. 245 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:11,430 Hip used to do loads of marathon running. 246 00:12:11,430 --> 00:12:14,790 That's one of the reasons she got into it and she stopped it all because the business is becoming all consuming. 247 00:12:14,790 --> 00:12:15,270 I'm saying, right. 248 00:12:15,275 --> 00:12:15,630 Stop. 249 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:21,420 You need to now carve out times in the week, go away, get back to doing your endeavor because you need escapism. 250 00:12:21,420 --> 00:12:25,560 Because if you're escapism and that's why you laugh about, I can go out on the bike for four hours, right? 251 00:12:25,560 --> 00:12:29,340 And I'll be out on the bike for four hours, drives people mad because I get back and I'll send about 20 emails. 252 00:12:29,340 --> 00:12:30,440 Cause that's my thinking time, right? 253 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:30,560 Yeah. 254 00:12:30,560 --> 00:12:30,680 Yeah. 255 00:12:30,900 --> 00:12:31,740 And it clears the air. 256 00:12:31,740 --> 00:12:39,960 And I think that's the big thing, which is, um, you know, getting a balance and making sure that founders have got an escapism or got a. 257 00:12:40,575 --> 00:12:49,965 You know, a pursuit outside of, outside of work, you know, take your frigging holidays cuz you know, it's like virtually all of my businesses, none of them have contracted hours or minimum work hours, or else a number of holidays. 258 00:12:49,965 --> 00:12:53,415 If you wanna take 50 days holiday a year and do a great job, go for your life. 259 00:12:53,595 --> 00:12:56,475 And that's, you know, for me, that's, that's what's important. 260 00:12:56,475 --> 00:12:56,685 You know? 261 00:12:56,775 --> 00:13:00,960 And just to finish on Pip, You know what I'm loving about Pip at the moment is Pip's just had her first baby. 262 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:08,550 Um, beautiful little girl and I'm so pleased cuz actually she's taking some time out and you know, she's working herself back in because you don't get that time back. 263 00:13:08,550 --> 00:13:08,850 Right. 264 00:13:08,910 --> 00:13:14,910 And, you know, it's, it's really important and I know she'll come back into the business fresher and, and deliver a lot more value. 265 00:13:15,060 --> 00:13:23,069 And I think that's just the big thing for me, for anybody setting up a business and founders founder today, just make sure you need an escapism, you need to have some sort of hobby outside of it. 266 00:13:23,069 --> 00:13:25,080 Cause otherwise it will just be all consuming. 267 00:13:25,349 --> 00:13:29,250 On the more than one founder thing, you know, it can go horribly wrong, right? 268 00:13:29,250 --> 00:13:29,251 Yeah. 269 00:13:29,256 --> 00:13:29,829 We'll we'll see. 270 00:13:29,860 --> 00:13:30,150 Yeah. 271 00:13:30,155 --> 00:13:30,420 Yeah. 272 00:13:30,420 --> 00:13:33,329 And it doesn't matter whether it's two of you or three of you or whatever. 273 00:13:33,719 --> 00:13:36,689 Like two of you, you fall out, it's complete disaster. 274 00:13:36,719 --> 00:13:40,709 Cause the whole business is gonna go, three of you is normally two of you going up on the other one. 275 00:13:40,949 --> 00:13:42,120 It's also miserable. 276 00:13:42,209 --> 00:13:42,750 Like it happens. 277 00:13:43,020 --> 00:13:43,709 Yeah, it is tough. 278 00:13:44,099 --> 00:13:44,579 You're right. 279 00:13:44,579 --> 00:13:44,880 Yeah. 280 00:13:45,180 --> 00:13:49,770 But I do think that having a co-founder kind of rubs the crazy off. 281 00:13:50,115 --> 00:13:52,695 You know, cuz you can end up going down a massive rabbit hole. 282 00:13:53,775 --> 00:13:56,985 What do you do about climate change then with all of these businesses? 283 00:13:56,985 --> 00:13:58,365 What are you asking them to do? 284 00:13:58,815 --> 00:14:04,805 Uh, so I'm, I'm gonna flip around the other way, which is I think we are so far behind. 285 00:14:06,075 --> 00:14:12,495 In terms of putting in the right measures to make sure that the planet is around for as long as it should be in the state that it needs to be. 286 00:14:12,885 --> 00:14:15,105 I think we are so far behind. 287 00:14:15,105 --> 00:14:21,555 It is frightening and, and whilst I do think the businesses have a responsibility to kind of be self. 288 00:14:22,150 --> 00:14:24,219 Initiators of putting in more stringent measures. 289 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:31,480 I believe that policy has to come in and government policy has to come in with much more stringent targets, much earlier, and there were massive sanctions. 290 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:35,510 So they're not met, I hate to say it, but you and I both know that there's probably. 291 00:14:36,105 --> 00:14:41,985 10 or 20 or maybe 30 com companies globally that will probably have 60% of the impact worldwide. 292 00:14:41,990 --> 00:14:42,015 Yeah. 293 00:14:42,314 --> 00:14:44,595 You've gotta go after those guys and you've gotta be really clear to them. 294 00:14:44,655 --> 00:14:46,334 They're also the only ones who can afford it. 295 00:14:46,340 --> 00:14:46,515 Yeah. 296 00:14:46,515 --> 00:14:52,875 And it may mean PN l's horrible, but without being rude, these guys have got balance sheets that have just got, you know, telephone numbers sitting on them. 297 00:14:52,935 --> 00:14:58,395 And yeah, PNLs and share prices might be hit for a while, but the, if these adjustments aren't made, ramifications are much bigger. 298 00:14:58,655 --> 00:15:06,635 Yeah, I mean they brought in the plastic packaging tax, which I vaguely understand, and it's, you know, I think, I'm trying to remember if it's a hundred million tons a year or something, you know. 299 00:15:07,145 --> 00:15:11,765 Well, that's the other thing as well, trying to get any, any sort of, you know, what is, how do you measure it? 300 00:15:11,770 --> 00:15:11,885 Yeah. 301 00:15:12,345 --> 00:15:13,265 Cot this sort of thing. 302 00:15:13,265 --> 00:15:19,565 It's just madness and they, they're trying to, obviously trying to find a way to have a unified system that goes onto Nate labeling, particularly on food and drink labeling and light. 303 00:15:20,385 --> 00:15:20,984 It'll be 10 years. 304 00:15:20,984 --> 00:15:21,584 So we'll sort that out. 305 00:15:21,935 --> 00:15:27,135 I just kind of, you kind of want to rewind the whole, everything's gotta be in a plastic package, you know? 306 00:15:27,135 --> 00:15:27,194 Yeah. 307 00:15:27,285 --> 00:15:28,094 It's gone now. 308 00:15:28,094 --> 00:15:33,814 But I remember getting very depressed, and I'm sure I've complained about it on this podcast, going into MNS and finding an orange appeal. 309 00:15:34,064 --> 00:15:35,266 It still, still in a plastic box still? 310 00:15:35,535 --> 00:15:35,805 No. 311 00:15:35,805 --> 00:15:36,464 Fuck you. 312 00:15:36,469 --> 00:15:47,415 Because I was thinking like, what are they saying in the factories when they arrive for the first day and they're like, right when you unpeel this orange and put it in that box, and you're like, or you get the four apples in a tray with the plastic over the top. 313 00:15:47,834 --> 00:15:49,275 Let be my best example now. 314 00:15:49,364 --> 00:15:55,939 So, Um, bio and Me, which is a gut health brand that I'm involved with, which is John and mek and the founders of that. 315 00:15:55,939 --> 00:15:58,010 So it's basically gut health, cereals and yogurts. 316 00:15:58,670 --> 00:16:02,240 Everybody says to me, what an incredible brand, amazing pops on the shelf. 317 00:16:02,870 --> 00:16:04,070 Why are you in such small boxes? 318 00:16:04,610 --> 00:16:07,160 Because you, you know, you, you, you, you're impacting your shelf presence. 319 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:11,729 And I'm like, because open the box and actually it's the right size box. 320 00:16:11,729 --> 00:16:12,959 The amount of product is in there. 321 00:16:13,589 --> 00:16:19,560 Everybody else is doing what a marketeer does, which is let's have 40, 50% air, make it look bigger. 322 00:16:19,564 --> 00:16:21,969 So consumer thinks they're getting more and stuff like that, but. 323 00:16:22,949 --> 00:16:24,089 Everybody just keeps saying to me, you're mad. 324 00:16:24,089 --> 00:16:25,079 Just put, you're stitching yourself up. 325 00:16:25,079 --> 00:16:25,740 Said, I'm not mad. 326 00:16:25,740 --> 00:16:29,370 Because you know, the bigger issue is why aren't all those other brands saying, right. 327 00:16:29,610 --> 00:16:36,209 You know, if I was a supermarket today, I'd be going across every product and say, right, we look at your product and they'll all have arguments about our, of the way that our machines fill. 328 00:16:36,209 --> 00:16:38,219 We need to have certain amount of gap and all that sort of stuff. 329 00:16:38,224 --> 00:16:42,250 But I'd be saying, right, you've got 40% air by this time next year. 330 00:16:42,329 --> 00:16:44,400 That product needs to be less than half, 10% air. 331 00:16:44,459 --> 00:16:49,319 And you could take out 30, 40% of packaging usage straight away there, and it just drive you mad. 332 00:16:49,319 --> 00:16:50,310 But that's the world we live in. 333 00:16:51,090 --> 00:17:01,410 And now a quick word from our sponsor, business Without Bullshit is brought to you by Ari Clark, straight Talking Financial and legal advice since 1935. 334 00:17:01,860 --> 00:17:04,319 You can find us@ariclark.com. 335 00:17:05,655 --> 00:17:08,024 What are you most excited about for your portfolio? 336 00:17:08,024 --> 00:17:10,875 Is there something coming up within the portfolio at the moment? 337 00:17:10,875 --> 00:17:11,744 I definitely, I've just mentioned it. 338 00:17:11,744 --> 00:17:13,425 Second Bio me is doing really well. 339 00:17:13,425 --> 00:17:15,915 I've also got another cereal brand involvement called Surreal. 340 00:17:16,335 --> 00:17:23,295 So if it's surreal, so this is this kind of, um, high protein, zero sugar, very low, very low carbs plate, like a keto type thing. 341 00:17:23,885 --> 00:17:27,165 If you want to see the example of what I think is. 342 00:17:27,795 --> 00:17:31,305 The best marketed product and the best marketing in the industry at the moment. 343 00:17:31,545 --> 00:17:33,585 Just follow surreal on LinkedIn and Instagram. 344 00:17:33,645 --> 00:17:34,665 Absolutely brilliant. 345 00:17:34,665 --> 00:17:38,835 Their marketing is so refreshing, not taking themselves seriously, completely. 346 00:17:39,045 --> 00:17:43,095 Taking the Mickey out of the, the big serial guys and stuff like that and just getting so much traction. 347 00:17:43,155 --> 00:17:44,805 Did you transcend that in America? 348 00:17:44,810 --> 00:17:46,335 I mean, we've got so much humor in this country. 349 00:17:46,525 --> 00:17:47,505 Yeah, they do. 350 00:17:47,535 --> 00:17:48,615 There's a few brands doing it. 351 00:17:48,615 --> 00:17:49,215 Not, not as much. 352 00:17:49,215 --> 00:17:49,455 Sorry. 353 00:17:49,690 --> 00:17:50,980 Those products are doing very well. 354 00:17:50,980 --> 00:17:55,810 So for example, in the, in the US there's a brand called Magic Spoon, which is similar to surreal, and that's doing well. 355 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:57,760 Their humans are, they're humans. 356 00:17:57,760 --> 00:17:58,360 A bit different though. 357 00:17:58,360 --> 00:17:59,620 They're doing it, they're not doing it. 358 00:17:59,710 --> 00:18:02,260 So we, ours is typical tongue in cheek that British love. 359 00:18:02,260 --> 00:18:06,610 I mean, the thing about those kind of key brands and things like that is they're so effing. 360 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:07,590 Earnest. 361 00:18:07,595 --> 00:18:08,130 Yeah, yeah. 362 00:18:08,130 --> 00:18:08,610 About stuff. 363 00:18:08,615 --> 00:18:09,120 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 364 00:18:09,570 --> 00:18:12,450 It is that little bit cleek stroke, you know, or that CrossFit type thing. 365 00:18:12,450 --> 00:18:14,100 Well, the earnest brings that thing. 366 00:18:14,100 --> 00:18:18,570 It's like, why does, you know, what, what's the problem with, you know, the vegan community and stuff? 367 00:18:18,575 --> 00:18:20,220 You make other people feel bad. 368 00:18:20,220 --> 00:18:22,830 You know, you, it's very patronizing and that's what surreal, trying to break that down. 369 00:18:22,835 --> 00:18:25,592 It's just trying to be accessible to everybody and you know, have a bit of fun with it. 370 00:18:25,597 --> 00:18:27,030 Not take yourself too seriously. 371 00:18:27,090 --> 00:18:28,500 But there's, I mean, there's other things that excite me. 372 00:18:28,500 --> 00:18:30,480 Like what's really interesting is I've got a. 373 00:18:30,535 --> 00:18:39,055 I've got a really nice, um, healthy soft drinks brand called Dawson's, which is pure, it says just sparkling water and then real fruits like that's been around for about six, seven years. 374 00:18:39,205 --> 00:18:43,645 That's absolutely flying again now because two main reasons kind of healthy, right? 375 00:18:43,645 --> 00:18:47,305 So health healthy fruit carbonates is actually the fastest growing section, the whole of soft drinks. 376 00:18:47,725 --> 00:18:53,395 But also what's happening is, and this is why I I laugh to talk about a little about bullshit bus busters, is that everybody's talking about this kind of, 377 00:18:53,965 --> 00:19:00,750 everybody moving away from alcohol and everybody's saying, well, it's because they're all trading into like, Non-alcoholic, it beers, non wines and stuff like that. 378 00:19:00,750 --> 00:19:04,830 And things like seed lip and stuff like that, which by the way, totally get and they're all gonna fly. 379 00:19:04,830 --> 00:19:15,750 But actually what's happening is, you know, a lot of people are actually switching into things like traditional soft drinks, again, because they'd rather, rather than have like a fake beer, they actually want something that tastes like a, you know, like one of the Dawsons. 380 00:19:15,750 --> 00:19:18,810 So actually that's why Dawson's having a big recent, you know, big research. 381 00:19:18,810 --> 00:19:23,040 No, I find if I, I'm trying to not drink at the moment, just for a, a week or two and, yeah. 382 00:19:23,305 --> 00:19:24,805 Well, my, what is happening to you? 383 00:19:25,015 --> 00:19:26,695 No swearing stomach problem. 384 00:19:26,695 --> 00:19:27,385 No drinking. 385 00:19:27,385 --> 00:19:28,645 I know, I know, I know, I know. 386 00:19:28,705 --> 00:19:29,515 Well, you may have noticed. 387 00:19:29,515 --> 00:19:31,045 I he just totally different person. 388 00:19:31,045 --> 00:19:33,295 I just, uh, yeah, he's a quick fix, isn't he? 389 00:19:33,295 --> 00:19:34,555 He'll find like, that's it. 390 00:19:34,555 --> 00:19:35,125 I need that one. 391 00:19:35,125 --> 00:19:36,925 That's got CocaCola was energized. 392 00:19:36,930 --> 00:19:37,435 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 393 00:19:37,435 --> 00:19:41,125 You know my mind when I'm like, sometimes I'm in a thing and you've ordered the beer or the wine. 394 00:19:41,130 --> 00:19:44,845 Your friend gets the Coca-Cola and I just stare at it and think, I just want a coke. 395 00:19:46,155 --> 00:19:49,095 Uh, so Charles, what do you think your biggest fuck up in business is? 396 00:19:49,455 --> 00:19:56,145 Biggest fuck up or mistake that I've made in order to see a number of businesses commonly make is building a battalion of people. 397 00:19:57,120 --> 00:20:05,280 When it's not needed or else before the revenue comes through and then the revenue doesn't come through and they've got this massive overhead around their neck and they can't make any money, and then it becomes a real problem. 398 00:20:05,285 --> 00:20:08,760 So that's I, to be honest with you, I did that via, I did that at Via Coco. 399 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:10,860 I put way too many people in too early. 400 00:20:11,610 --> 00:20:16,740 We now have, you know, so not we, they now have a business today in, in, in Europe, which is a very successful business. 401 00:20:17,010 --> 00:20:21,840 It's got half the people that I had in it when I was, when I was doing it, and it's three times more productive. 402 00:20:22,135 --> 00:20:23,155 And just, just surround yourself. 403 00:20:23,155 --> 00:20:25,225 Have less people, but have amazing people. 404 00:20:25,465 --> 00:20:27,415 It's a very difficult equation, isn't it? 405 00:20:27,420 --> 00:20:31,195 Because hiring people takes time, but you've basically always gotta run hot. 406 00:20:31,254 --> 00:20:39,535 I mean, we get this in this, in our business, that you people are most efficient and actually happiest if they're busy, but you don't want them breaking down at their desks kind of stuff. 407 00:20:39,540 --> 00:20:45,264 You wanna say, go home, you know, if you can't get it done, and it's sort of people, but it also comes down to it's a bit more difficult in your area because you are. 408 00:20:46,125 --> 00:20:48,165 You know, you've got clients and you've got certain things you do. 409 00:20:48,165 --> 00:20:58,845 But if you take my area, one of the, one of the, one of the biggest achilles heel of the business is that consuming consumer goods is that particularly in marketing, they'll do a load of marketing activity and then they'll try and do more. 410 00:20:58,845 --> 00:21:00,525 And it's just layer upon, layer up and layer. 411 00:21:00,525 --> 00:21:07,545 And where the leadership need team me to step up is to say, well, look, it's as much about what you stop doing as what you continue and start doing. 412 00:21:07,575 --> 00:21:09,795 And there's just people just assume. 413 00:21:09,795 --> 00:21:11,115 And that's what we did at Vita Coco. 414 00:21:11,115 --> 00:21:11,835 We took out. 415 00:21:11,845 --> 00:21:17,785 Probably 40% of meetings and 40% of marketing activity and people like, um, you know, the brand's gonna really suffer. 416 00:21:18,285 --> 00:21:19,005 Didn't suffer. 417 00:21:19,005 --> 00:21:22,245 It actually did better because people are focused on the stuff that actually worked and did well. 418 00:21:22,815 --> 00:21:24,165 Time management, all of that. 419 00:21:24,165 --> 00:21:31,485 But you, but you, but to be fair, that's where you've gotta have a leadership team who can look at it and help guide the rest of the team to try and make those difficult decisions and say it's okay not to do that sort of stuff anymore. 420 00:21:31,875 --> 00:21:32,145 Yeah. 421 00:21:32,150 --> 00:21:38,775 Plus if it hap, I'm sure it happens in your, you know, I'm so busy that I don't know how good my time management is. 422 00:21:38,775 --> 00:21:41,865 I sometimes think not so cuz I get a bit ruled by my email box. 423 00:21:41,865 --> 00:21:47,355 But the truth is, when you're at that level of busy, I have to do what is really important and it is. 424 00:21:47,590 --> 00:21:50,590 Incredible how much I can do when I'm focused. 425 00:21:50,590 --> 00:21:52,850 I'm not trying to big myself up, but how long I can say, but how? 426 00:21:52,870 --> 00:21:53,470 But how do you work? 427 00:21:53,470 --> 00:22:03,770 Cause I know, for example, I purposely don't do a lot of stuff because I know the only way for me to be accessible is to let a lot of people down every day because I focus on a few things that are important, important to the business or the founder or me. 428 00:22:04,740 --> 00:22:05,640 That's all I need to worry about. 429 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:10,140 And I know there's be another 20 things that people would be like, really effed off the jars, hasn't done that. 430 00:22:10,140 --> 00:22:10,470 Whatever. 431 00:22:10,470 --> 00:22:13,980 But I know that that isn't, and then tricky with clients, I can only be successful. 432 00:22:13,985 --> 00:22:14,400 I know it is. 433 00:22:14,405 --> 00:22:20,580 And that's what I was gonna say with the client, you guys, it's difficult, but it's also that whole, if you want something done, ask a busy person. 434 00:22:20,730 --> 00:22:21,000 Yeah. 435 00:22:21,300 --> 00:22:24,360 And it is true that like when you've got loads of shit to do. 436 00:22:24,365 --> 00:22:24,940 Yeah, yeah. 437 00:22:25,980 --> 00:22:28,470 You just kind of have to get through it quick when you do stuff. 438 00:22:28,475 --> 00:22:28,770 No, no, no. 439 00:22:28,770 --> 00:22:31,300 I mean I've really, I've You sure lost a lot fast. 440 00:22:31,370 --> 00:22:32,220 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 441 00:22:32,220 --> 00:22:34,080 But you know, we were talking yesterday about. 442 00:22:34,530 --> 00:22:36,090 Like being ruled by our inbox. 443 00:22:36,090 --> 00:22:39,660 Like when an email comes in, the first thing I do is reply to it. 444 00:22:39,660 --> 00:22:41,700 Even if it's just to say, I'll take a look tomorrow. 445 00:22:41,730 --> 00:22:41,970 Yeah. 446 00:22:42,300 --> 00:22:43,140 And then flag it. 447 00:22:43,140 --> 00:22:43,980 That's our job. 448 00:22:43,985 --> 00:22:45,210 That's my biggest bug bet. 449 00:22:45,300 --> 00:22:47,820 Even if you're freaking busy to say, look, I'm really busy. 450 00:22:47,820 --> 00:22:48,660 I'll come back to you, whatever. 451 00:22:48,660 --> 00:22:51,390 Rather than I leave it, sat there for God knows how long, and somebody said, did you get this? 452 00:22:51,395 --> 00:22:51,810 What's going on? 453 00:22:51,815 --> 00:22:53,760 Well, I, we have to train everyone here, but I didn't know the answer. 454 00:22:53,760 --> 00:23:03,419 But I do have clients who will, they'll send me an email and literally I'll, I'll look at it and think, just finish this off and reply to it and I'll get a text saying, I just sent you an email, just haven't come back to me. 455 00:23:03,510 --> 00:23:04,620 You said the right thing. 456 00:23:04,620 --> 00:23:06,360 The, it depends on the business. 457 00:23:06,389 --> 00:23:13,620 I think if it with professionals it is incredibly important if you are paying us 300 pound an hour that we fucking respond. 458 00:23:13,620 --> 00:23:13,831 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 459 00:23:13,837 --> 00:23:15,810 And just exactly I have seen it. 460 00:23:15,929 --> 00:23:16,650 I am aware of it. 461 00:23:16,656 --> 00:23:16,919 Got it. 462 00:23:16,925 --> 00:23:17,340 I'll come back. 463 00:23:17,344 --> 00:23:18,241 I will come back to you. 464 00:23:18,245 --> 00:23:18,379 Yeah, yeah. 465 00:23:18,510 --> 00:23:21,389 You know, and then you don't care if it takes a week cuz you're like they're on it. 466 00:23:22,379 --> 00:23:24,360 Uh, what's the worst advice you've ever been given? 467 00:23:24,719 --> 00:23:25,530 Not necessarily what I'm gonna. 468 00:23:25,949 --> 00:23:26,550 Twist us a little bit. 469 00:23:26,550 --> 00:23:33,810 Not exactly advice, but it was, I remember I was at Koch and I was, I've always wanted to go to that entrepreneurial sort of business. 470 00:23:34,469 --> 00:23:37,860 And I'll never forget, um, was he my boss? 471 00:23:37,860 --> 00:23:40,679 He might, he was either my boss or he had been recently my boss. 472 00:23:40,739 --> 00:23:42,959 And I told him, I said, look, I'm thinking about going to innocent like that. 473 00:23:43,439 --> 00:23:45,929 And he just turned around to me, says, um, are you sure? 474 00:23:45,929 --> 00:23:46,290 I said, why? 475 00:23:46,290 --> 00:23:47,729 He says, yeah, because just be real clear. 476 00:23:48,270 --> 00:23:50,340 You only get one chance to work for a bit like Coca-Cola. 477 00:23:50,340 --> 00:23:50,969 You realize that. 478 00:23:51,239 --> 00:23:55,425 And I just sat there and I went, I now know why this is the best decision I've ever made. 479 00:23:55,425 --> 00:23:55,754 Yeah. 480 00:23:56,475 --> 00:24:07,215 How arrogant And like actually the re the way that in my mind I was working was saying, look, I think I'm acceptable and good enough that the worst scenario here for me is of a jump ship. 481 00:24:07,665 --> 00:24:10,815 I can get back into a corporate role of a similar level again. 482 00:24:10,815 --> 00:24:11,595 So that's my fallback. 483 00:24:12,555 --> 00:24:12,855 Yeah. 484 00:24:12,855 --> 00:24:14,085 Pep, I'm going to Pepsi. 485 00:24:14,085 --> 00:24:14,504 Exactly. 486 00:24:14,504 --> 00:24:14,685 Yeah. 487 00:24:15,075 --> 00:24:21,750 So, and that was a, you know, that was the, that was the thing that's always stuck with me, that somebody said that to me and I just thought, Wow. 488 00:24:21,810 --> 00:24:23,010 What was Coke like to work for? 489 00:24:23,010 --> 00:24:23,820 Is it a good place? 490 00:24:23,820 --> 00:24:25,770 Great business, amazing, amazing people. 491 00:24:25,770 --> 00:24:27,630 By the way, I had such a laugh there. 492 00:24:27,630 --> 00:24:31,230 I think it's a bit, being a bit curtailed these days, obviously entertainment, budgets, all stuff like that. 493 00:24:31,530 --> 00:24:34,860 I think it'd be dried up a bit, but just a great set of people. 494 00:24:34,890 --> 00:24:37,321 Amazing people, massively passionate about it. 495 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,035 And I, you know, Some of the assets you got to work on. 496 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:44,625 You know, you can imagine every, every year you used to have like an Olympic cycle or the, you know, the World Cup football. 497 00:24:44,625 --> 00:24:48,495 And of course my course a major sponsor and it was just something amazing. 498 00:24:48,525 --> 00:24:52,275 5 billion servings a day madness. 499 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:52,335 Wow. 500 00:24:52,935 --> 00:24:53,685 Of all their products. 501 00:24:53,690 --> 00:24:55,875 Yeah, it's, it's a great business full of great people as well. 502 00:24:55,935 --> 00:25:03,735 When I qualified at the firm I used to be at, after six months, I hated, I was in licensing and gaming and I hated it and I got another job. 503 00:25:04,155 --> 00:25:10,755 And the managing partner, I got a job out of London and the managing partner said to me, You go out of London, you'll never come back to London. 504 00:25:10,965 --> 00:25:11,415 That's it. 505 00:25:11,875 --> 00:25:12,165 Yeah. 506 00:25:12,615 --> 00:25:15,765 And you know, six years later, whatever they rehired me. 507 00:25:15,805 --> 00:25:18,705 I was working in sl No, I was working in Redding. 508 00:25:19,035 --> 00:25:23,295 Can I, I gotta say one quick story that that same person who was at Coke, bless him. 509 00:25:24,105 --> 00:25:24,855 This is what I meant. 510 00:25:25,155 --> 00:25:35,325 I was in a customer meeting and this customer literally was like, hung a real moment saying, right, I know that you are selling this product to this supermarket a lot more cheaply. 511 00:25:35,895 --> 00:25:37,155 You're not giving me a good enough price. 512 00:25:37,515 --> 00:25:39,135 And this was a lot smaller retailer. 513 00:25:39,555 --> 00:25:48,795 This the same bloke came out with this answer to this, so still an important customer, no disrespect, but that customer probably spills more in a year than you sell, so you're not gonna get that price. 514 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:48,865 Oh 515 00:25:51,915 --> 00:25:52,485 yeah. 516 00:25:53,235 --> 00:25:55,155 I literally, I tried to go into the table. 517 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:56,925 I was like, I can't believe he's just, it worked though. 518 00:25:56,925 --> 00:25:57,345 I bet. 519 00:25:57,679 --> 00:25:59,240 It did well, it did well, I'll put it this way. 520 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:05,629 The only thing it worked on is that the meeting was over there and then, and actually, do you know what that that customer did? 521 00:26:06,020 --> 00:26:12,110 They went and sourced Coca-Cola from outside of the UK and brought it in more cheaply that way just to piss, piss off the co uk. 522 00:26:12,110 --> 00:26:13,070 Oh, did the Gray Market Cola? 523 00:26:13,070 --> 00:26:13,270 Yeah. 524 00:26:13,500 --> 00:26:17,000 Yeah, dad, because that's the thing with Coca-Cola, isn't it? 525 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:17,060 Yeah. 526 00:26:17,060 --> 00:26:21,110 It's like you have this incredible brand that people go, well go get. 527 00:26:21,450 --> 00:26:24,600 Um, something, you know, there's Pepsi, but no one ever asks for Pepsi. 528 00:26:24,889 --> 00:26:26,430 You ever, ever, no one ever. 529 00:26:27,050 --> 00:26:28,379 No one ever says, can I have a pep? 530 00:26:28,379 --> 00:26:29,370 I've never met anyone in life. 531 00:26:29,375 --> 00:26:30,450 Pepsi, well, India, Pepsi, you will. 532 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:36,780 If India, it's, you know, it's amazing when you around the world, some, you know, some markets like Cokes, not, not in all markets, India, it's Pepsi, everywhere. 533 00:26:38,370 --> 00:26:40,620 What's the best piece of advice anyone's ever given you? 534 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,290 Uh, just follow and do whatever you're passionate about. 535 00:26:43,290 --> 00:26:43,380 Nice. 536 00:26:43,620 --> 00:26:44,970 Make sure you enjoy what you're doing every day. 537 00:26:45,570 --> 00:26:47,550 And what advice would you give your younger self? 538 00:26:48,270 --> 00:26:49,650 This is a really CRAs answer. 539 00:26:49,650 --> 00:26:52,760 I generally, I wouldn't change anything because I. 540 00:26:53,145 --> 00:26:54,375 The way it's worked out, it's been great. 541 00:26:54,375 --> 00:26:58,125 But also, you know, there were a lot of mistakes and you learned from those mistakes and have done well. 542 00:26:58,304 --> 00:27:07,215 The only thing I would probably say to myself would be take time to kind of enjoy the journey more because I was just running 20, you know, like million miles an hour the whole time. 543 00:27:07,215 --> 00:27:07,216 Yeah. 544 00:27:07,216 --> 00:27:07,804 And I probably didn't. 545 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,890 Step off the carriage way and just enjoy and take in some, some time. 546 00:27:11,890 --> 00:27:14,830 And there's that piece of advice to give you if you have a wedding. 547 00:27:14,890 --> 00:27:16,900 It was, I, I did do it at my second wedding. 548 00:27:17,090 --> 00:27:23,710 Uh, but they, they, they say to you at the wedding, at some point you and your wife walk away from the wedding. 549 00:27:23,770 --> 00:27:23,920 Yeah. 550 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,270 And just walk, just walk down the road somewhere. 551 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:27,070 You could still see it. 552 00:27:27,070 --> 00:27:31,210 And just, and there was this, and actually there's a photo of it, but there was this real Yeah. 553 00:27:31,210 --> 00:27:31,720 Weird moment. 554 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:33,970 We went to the end of the field and we just sort of sat there and looked. 555 00:27:33,970 --> 00:27:36,024 Back at the thing, and it is a real moment. 556 00:27:36,024 --> 00:27:36,145 Yeah. 557 00:27:36,145 --> 00:27:37,945 Your brain still, otherwise it just goes, fuck me. 558 00:27:38,064 --> 00:27:39,745 Actually, you know, it's like you're over and you're in the car, right. 559 00:27:39,745 --> 00:27:40,135 You're off. 560 00:27:40,735 --> 00:27:41,125 Yeah. 561 00:27:41,185 --> 00:27:44,004 Not having sex, you know, it's just a disaster. 562 00:27:44,004 --> 00:27:45,115 The honeymoon, you always, what's that? 563 00:27:45,175 --> 00:27:45,715 Yeah, exactly. 564 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:47,995 You're so exhaust, you're so exhausted. 565 00:27:47,995 --> 00:27:50,814 On the honeymoon night, you're like, aren't we supposed to, can we just go to bed? 566 00:27:50,965 --> 00:27:51,145 You know? 567 00:27:51,145 --> 00:27:51,655 It's like, yeah. 568 00:27:51,655 --> 00:27:51,896 All right. 569 00:27:55,524 --> 00:27:59,215 Any recommendations of what to listen to, watch, read? 570 00:27:59,304 --> 00:28:00,205 Uh, do you know what? 571 00:28:00,205 --> 00:28:00,985 I'm one of these people. 572 00:28:00,985 --> 00:28:02,604 Cause people often ask what books you read. 573 00:28:02,754 --> 00:28:03,864 I'm not a big reader. 574 00:28:03,895 --> 00:28:04,794 I'm not a big listener. 575 00:28:04,794 --> 00:28:07,614 The only thing I do is just surround yourself by. 576 00:28:08,220 --> 00:28:10,530 People who can help and support you as a founder. 577 00:28:10,530 --> 00:28:13,230 And when you're doing startup stuff, how do you find Right. 578 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:14,310 You know, I'm a founder. 579 00:28:14,310 --> 00:28:15,630 I'm 25 years old, haven't you? 580 00:28:15,630 --> 00:28:17,280 Build up a, you build up a network, right? 581 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:19,500 I dunno if you know, but I mentioned Jamie Mitchell earlier. 582 00:28:19,505 --> 00:28:25,260 Jamie, um, created an amazing initiative called Altogether, which is a pro bono advice, uh, business. 583 00:28:25,380 --> 00:28:34,530 And basically, um, I'm one of the advisors there and basically people can get in touch with it all together and, um, you get free time with, with different people in different sectors. 584 00:28:34,530 --> 00:28:36,060 So for example, I'm like a food and drink. 585 00:28:36,419 --> 00:28:37,620 Um, startup expert. 586 00:28:37,620 --> 00:28:42,810 There's somebody who's in property, there's somebody you know who's in, you know, finance or whatever it is. 587 00:28:42,810 --> 00:28:46,679 And that's, that's been a really good help for a lot of people in the last two, three years during covid. 588 00:28:46,950 --> 00:28:48,480 That's been real, I've enjoyed doing as well. 589 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:48,870 And do you know what? 590 00:28:48,875 --> 00:28:50,760 I've actually learned a lot from the people I've spoken to as well. 591 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:51,870 It's given me a few thoughts. 592 00:28:53,850 --> 00:29:01,290 So that was this week's episode of Bwb Extra, and we'll be back tomorrow with our finale for the week, the Business Versus Bullshit Quiz. 593 00:29:01,530 --> 00:29:02,399 Stay tuned.