Welcome to Gear and Beer, the podcast for gearheads, beer buffs, and adventurers with discerning tastes. I am your host, Justin Houseman, editor, professional gear reviewer, certified Cicerone. Call and tell the folks what that means again, please.

It means that I'm Colin True, and I work for brands and makers in the outdoor industry for over 20 years.

Right, well, I meant cicerone, but that's also. That is. Yes, yes, yes, that's fine. Cicerone is a beer expert.

It's a beer overlord, I feel like.

Yeah, well, we don't like to use that term anymore. That was. There was a kind of a big, like.

Is that canceled Overlords canceled?

Yeah, we're not using that term anymore. So, yeah, you know, we're. We're trying to be safe. Safe in the ciceronic world. It's.

Wait, wait, is Overlord really canceled?

No, I meant the beer Overlord. No, you can still say overlord.

Oh, good. Okay. I was worried.

Yeah. How else will we talk about Normandy? Wasn't that Operation Overlord? Yeah, I believe it was.

I do not have a master's in history, so.

Okay, great. So this is an outdoor gear love fest advice show, safe space for honest discussion of gear and whether we need it or not. And of course, we chase all that lovely gear talk down with beer, because after all, we are just two outdoor dorks who'd pretty much always rather be sitting around a campfire talking about gear and drinking beer. Even though Colin doesn't really like camping. He loves campfires, though. Isn't that right, Colin?

Yeah, I have a love hate relationship with camping. Like, I like camping, but I don't really seek it out. And oftentimes I'm thinking maybe I should not be here right now. But, you know, you. I like to combine those two words and to say that we're outdoor.

Well, Colin, before we get into straight up judging some outdoor gear, a couple things for our gear and Beer listeners. This is where you talk, Colin.

Oh, I code out. Okay, sorry. Hey, listen, Are you listening to the show? You are? Because you're hearing the sound of my voice.

Yeah, I am calling. I'm on it with you right now.

Okay, Justin, what I need you to do is take your phone out of your pocket and follow Gear and Beer wherever you're listening. And that goes for our listeners as well. Please follow the show. Please rate the show, helps us out, grows the show, makes it so more people can follow and rate the show, and then we get to keep making more episodes of Gear and Beer. So click that. Follow on your favorite podcast app. That five star rating. If you're on Apple podcasts written review, really awesome. That would be great. And also, why don't you check out our other show that we have here on the Rock Fight podcast network. It's called the Rock Fight. It's a great podcast. If you like outdoor stuff, you'll like listening to that and you get more time with Justin and me and who doesn't want that? And now Justin, my wife. Justin will tell you if you want to reach out to us because that's an important part of what we're about to talk about on gear and beer. You want to reach out to us? He's going to tell you how to do it.

You sure do. You sure do. Because without your emails, we don't have a show, folks. You can email us. Send your emails right there to myrockfightmail.com you can follow along on Instagram where our handle is Rockfight company and you'll get some fun little videos there every so often when we feel like making them. But more importantly, you can also sign up for our newsletter right there at Rockfight Co. Click there on Join the mailing list. Call Colin. Really honestly, he kicks ass at the newsletters.

Thanks, bud.

He's really, really good at it. It's kind of something that I do professionally and I haven't even once offered to do it for him because he's doing a really great job. Anyway, speaking of emails, we got one this week. Colin, I'm going to rustle through the mailbag here.

I'm using my fingertips like it sounds like fucking paper, like an idiot.

Okay, so this is, this is representative. This email is certainly a conversation I've had with a lot of people. It's. I fielded comments about this on things. Shoes ever. Well, there's the cat out of the bag. Shoes. Shoes I've reviewed before. You know, people will talk about this on social all the time. People just around town will ask me about this. It's something that we talk about a lot. And this one, this one comes from. Well, somewhere in the, in the Pacific Northwest. But they're kind of cagey about where. So I don't know. There maybe it's like Spokane. Who? Where? If you're Pacific Northwest, you don't want to admit it. Where would you say you're from?

I think you just say pnw. I think you just kind of keep it like this person did, you know?

Anyway, here it goes. Deer gear and beer. I've been noticing ads and reviews for trail running Shoes that are wildly expensive. I thought Justin's beloved Hokas at 185 bucks or so were a lot, but brands out there are selling 300ish shoes. Now I'm looking at you. Speedland. That's them, not me. What gives? You guys love to gush about low tech solutions to outdoor problems. So what are we to make of these crazy expensive trail runners? And that's from expensive shoeless in Seattle. So I guess they're, I guess they're from Seattle.

That's where they're from. In the Pacific Northwest.

Yeah, that's where they're from. Well, shoeless. It just so happens I become a convert to pricing. But worth it. Trail runners myself specifically. Nor does. Which I know we've talked about on the show though frankly I do not remember if we did like a full on review about it. But I know I've mentioned them before.

No, we haven't reviewed them yet.

Okay, great. And Colin has recently started strapping on a pair of those Speedlands that you ask about. So we're going to hit the trail, as it were, to talk about our experience in the stratospheric realm of shoes.

I believe it's pronounced Speedland.

Speedland. Speedland. Superman. Spider Man. Yeah, could be. I mean we, we, frankly folks, we don't know. Could be Speed Lane.

Can you pronounce your last name for me?

Houseman. Yeah, yeah.

It's not House Man.

Some people will say that.

Yeah, that's true.

I, it's, I gotta think it's Speedland.

I think. No, I think you're right.

Colin likes to say speedless. I mean either way, whatever. That's what it's called. Either way. They're 300 bucks. So we're gonna talk about them here in a bit. But, but before we get to that main event, we're going to get really thirsty I think, talking about all this running. So I think it's time that we dive into the beer segment of the show. Colin.

So what do we do? You want to play Stump the Cicerone first or do you want to talk about your beer first?

I want to play Stump the Cicerone. I'm one for one. I want to keep that rolling. So if we missed last week's, I just fricking nailed it. He gave me like two clues and I just jumped on top of it.

It was impressive in stock. We did not stump the Cicerone last week. And at the end of last week's episode, if you missed it, we announced we were going to be doing a trail running Episode and that Justin said I needed to find a beer that embodied being active. Something maybe you'd want to drink after you went running or were active and maybe also had a bit of an active vibe to it. So you kind of. You referenced the Michelob Ultra. I didn't go that way. I went with a beer that actually, I actually do. If I'm going to sit, usually if I. If I'm active, I'm not. You know, this is not the parking lot beer. This is the. All right, you finish your activity. You're going to get a burger, and you're having a beer with a beer. Right. So more on that lens. All right, so first clue. I'm looking at the can right now. Well, first I'm gonna tell you that this brewery is about 70 miles from your hometown of Los Osos. Okay.

Okay.

The brewery started in 2010.

Okay.

It has four.

Bay is my hometown, by the way. But Loso.

Oh, sorry. I was thinking Loso. I was gonna say slow, but I figured I'd go a little bit more.

That's fine. That's fine.

A little more Housman centric.

That's good.

They have four tap rooms in the Central Coast.

Okay. Okay.

And yeah. So Central Coast Brewery. The can. I mean, we're. Now there's. There's the brewery and then there's the beer. This beer features a bird in flight on the can. Do you have any guesses so far? Maybe the brewery. What do you think the brewery is?

Is it Topa Topa?

Nope. Gotcha. All right, Streak is over.

I really thought for sure it was Topa topa. 70 miles ish has a bird on the can. Okay, Bird on the can. Bird on the can. A flying bird in flight, you said?

Yes. If I can cover up the brewery and show you a picture of it.

Had you heard of it?

I'd heard of the brewery. I have heard of the brewery. I don't know if I had any other beer before. Yeah, I have heard of the brewery.

Is it from Figueroa Mountain?

That's the brewery. Second guess.

So good at this. Okay.

Justin dispatched his microphone out of joy, forgetting nailing the brewery.

It's not Hoppy Poppy, is it?

Hoppy Poppy is not happy Poppy, are you pretty familiar with the beers from Figaro?

I don't know all of them. Okay, I'm going to give myself. I'm going to go ahead and give myself a win on that because that's pretty. That's Figaro Mountain is pretty good. I don't know all their Beers. Hoppy Poppy is their most famous one and I dearly love it.

All right, so the beer, the beer is the Hikers High Hazy ipa.

Cool. Yeah, I don't think I've had that one. Yeah, that's a cool name.

It's a great can.

I've seen that can. Figaro Mountain is one of my favorite breweries, by the way.

Yeah, I went with this one because, you know, I tend to be. I'm not really running much these days, so I tend to hike more. So like, oh, it's a hiking beer. It was active. It was named after the mountains. The little description was about. It was an outdoorsy beer, so that's why I went with it. But nice job, man. Yeah. Second guess. You got the brewery on the second guess.

The. That's probably a phenomenal beer for exactly what you described. Like you've just done something gnarly.

That was what I was thinking.

You're going to get a burger or like tacos. Yeah, like, that's, that's a such. That's probably such a good burger beer. But if you folks, if you haven't had Figaro Mountain one, I'm really glad to hear you can get a total wine. It's very, very good. They're. They're actually, if I'm not mistaken, I think they started in either Los Olivos builtin or like Santa Ynez.

That's right. That's where I did the mapping from to Los Osos. All right, should we open these up?

Well, I haven't talked about. Oh, yeah.

What are you drinking?

Good Lord. So I, I'm almost. I know last time I kind of did. When we've already done. I'm almost positive that we haven't done Tremor. Have we done Tremor?

No, I don't think we have not done Tremor.

Okay. Tremor Light Lager, California. This is also near me. This is Santa Rosa. This is. We've talked before about Sufferfest on the show, which is. Which I believe was. Was that the one that was bought by Sierra Nevada and they just like. I think so they misreranched it. Yeah, they just, they just, they just got rid of it.

They all yellered it.

I loved Suffer Fest because they kind of. They excelled in making low alcohol beers that. Well, that's it. Low alcohol beers. And it was geared. Sufferfest, obviously it's geared toward like athletic endeavors.

Right.

Tremors. Really big around here. It's a light lager. It's, it's. It's not organic, I don't believe, but it's all. It's like they call it sustainably brewed, so I'm guessing they probably, like, offset their, you know, carbon and all. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, it's a 4.2% alcohol. Really, really light. How many calories does it have? 120 calories. So this is like, right in that vein of, like, you know, you can have one of these after a run and you don't feel like you're, like, counts, you know, canceling out that you just went for a run.

Right?

So.

Right.

Really good, really crisp. Really, really, like, you could just down three of these if you're thirsty real fast. Hopefully not going to do that here, but let's. Let's fire these up. All right, buddy.

All right, you ready?

Three.

Three, Two, One.

One. Oh, there it is. There it is.

Okay. I'm just giving it a little smell. My hope with this is I'm like, this could become like, one of my favorite beers. I feel like I've had it will be.

I don't think I've had that, but I'm gonna. I'm sure it's good.

I'm optimist. This is really good.

It's really good.

I really like this beer.

Figaro Mountain is very, very good. I hope to God that if they're in total wine, that doesn't mean they've been bought by Anheuser Busch.

Yeah. Brewing can by Figaro mountain brewery in Builton, California. Beauty.

Yeah. Beautiful. Well, mine's delicious. You know, I forgot every time I drink, every single time I drink one of these, I'm like, this is a baseball beer. Like, this is exactly what you want in a baseball game.

I thought you're gonna say every time you drink one of these, an angel gets their wings.

That also happens. Also happens. Let's get into the. Let's get into the expensive shoes conversation. Yeah, so you say. I've never talked about Norda on the show.

I think we maybe in passing have mentioned that you've started running them, but we've not actually talked about in any depth whatsoever.

Okay, so I'll give you a brief rundown. Norda is a Canadian brand. It's a husband and wife team. I think they're around Montreal, but I'm not positive about that. They're both. The founders are both like, longtime shoe industry people or. Or at least the husband is for sure. I think his wife was too. I don't remember where they came from. I met him at a Vibram event where they. That was the first time I'd ever seen their shoes. I'd heard of them before, but I had not seen them. And so I met with him at the Vibram office in Boulder, Colorado and he kind of went through the shoes and that's where I first tried them on, went for a run. So, yeah, they cost 200. I think these are 285. Other models in their line are 295. And 99% of that cost is coming in the Dyneema. So Dyneema, which I'm sure we've so one, this is the. I don't know how many other shoes have used Dyneema before Colin. You might know that better than I, but I don't know. This is the first shoe I'd heard of that was that used.

Yeah, I'm not sure.

This doesn't actually just use Dyneema. It uses Biodynema. Now Dyneema, I know we've talked about on the show before, Dyneema is a synthetic fiber that's like crazy strong. It's like 15 times stronger than steel, I think, or 10 times stronger than steel. It's a really strong material. Hyper light kind of really brought it to most people's attention with their backpacks and rain shells. And I think they make a tent out of it. You can get it now in like lots of high end tents are made of Dyneema. Very strong, very lightweight, naturally hydrophobic. It's not usually waterproof by itself, but I bet it can be. I don't know if there's, you know, it's woven so it's probably not going to be like straight up waterproof, but you can obviously treat it so that it will be. But it's a pretty revolutionary material in terms of like strength to weight. And so one of the things that's really unique about the Norda is the uppers are all Dyneema. And I'm fairly certain it's like one piece. Right. Like there's no seams.

So this is for all models, not just the one.

And they make what, four or five? I'm not on the their website right now, but they make like four or five. And Colin, they, you know, you're, you're, you're the naming convention bugaboo guy. They, they're all named with numbers. So I'm rocking the double O ones. There's a double O2, there's a double O3. I think there's like a double O3 plus. What do you think about that?

My gut was, I started shaking my head when he said That I didn't love it, but frankly, the simplicity of it, when you compare it to some of this, like the one I'm going to review from the Speedland, which is the GS, I guess it's ra or if it's rar, I don't really know.

I'm already confused.

Exactly. So the fact that you're like, hey, this is the double O2, okay. You know, it's simple.

I mean, it's fine.

It could be better, but that's definitely not the worst.

Well, if you go to their website, it would make sense. Like, they. It's a very like, hyper modern, like, stripped down aesthetic. Like, it looks like something you'd wear in space. You know, it looks like. It looks like they belong in a world in which we've stopped using names or we're just using numbers, like, for better or worse. That's kind of what. That's kind of what it looks like. Style wise, I think they look really great. Mine are the. I think they're called like, cinder, and they're mostly white with green laces. I should mention the laces are also made from Dyneema, which is pretty cool. And so I guess what you really need to know about Dyneema is just that already I said that it's 15 times stronger than steel, but it like, theoretically will just last like forever. Right. It's an incredible material. And so it's a. It's really smart to use it in a. In a shoe. In the uppers especially. The thing that I really love about these shoes is they're so freaking thin. The uppers are so thin. Like, it almost feels like you're putting on a pair of like. I don't even want to use the word stiff, but like more subs, like stronger socks, right? That have a nice, like a really nice meaty mid and outer sole to them. And the. The now they tout. This is like something they did on purpose. I'm sure they. They did, but they. The founder describes the way that they like, lace up as. I forget what he called it, but like some kind. Like they have like a. I think of like a proprietary term for like how it like grips your foot when you lace it up. But he described it as like what it feels like when you put on like, cross country ski boots.

Oh, interesting.

Like where it really just like grips your foot in there really nicely. So the. So even though the material is really, really lightweight and so the uppers are so thin that like, the laces, the uppers and the sole are all Acting in one to, like, really, like, hold your foot in. And so that's the thing I really love about these shoes. Like, you. You hold them and they're light as hell, and you're like, well, these like. You know, my issue with trail runners normally is I hate that my foot moves.

Right.

These don't really allow that they feel extremely secure on your foot, especially considering how thin they are.

Well, that's my question, because I know how thin Dyneema can be. I was actually. Just. Because there's boas on the shoes, I'm going to review. So I was doing. Looking some work on. Looking on YouTube for some reviews on some boa stuff, and I found a Ginger Runner video where we reviewed the. The Ultra Mont Blanc, which had boa. But his complaint about that was it wasn't Dyneema, but it was a very thin, stretchy sort of material in the upper. And he's like. It just. It didn't give me any support. It kind of collapsed, like, all that kind of stuff. So I was wondering.

But doesn't. Dyma doesn't stretch? So that's probably.

That's right. There you go.

And so it's. It's. It's. It's thin and it moves, but it's light or. I'm sorry, but it's. It adds a. It's stiff. So at no point, like, when I put them on, we ran from the office up some, like, hellish. I was so mad. This is where they sent us on the.

You're at altitude too, right?

Yeah, I'm at altitude. And it's like. It was hot and it was like, up this, like, pretty extreme trail. And it. And the up. The up part is not that big of a deal in a. In a shoe that might move a little bit. But I was already kind of concerned coming downhill. And then the route that we went uphill was like, pretty much dirt. Downhill was, like, pretty burly, like, bouldery rocks sharp with, like, off camber and a lot of, like, roots. And I. So confident with these. Like, really, really confident. Um, and so, yeah, I would just. I was just blown away by how they performed. They also. The ba. They. They use the. The Vibram light base, which is like. If you know anything about Vibram, that's like the. That's like the creme de la creme of their. Of their. Of their outsoles. Like, just like super lightweight, super high performance. Everything about this shoe. And we've. I talked about this a bit with Hoka's is more so with this one where you put them on and you want to run. Like, I don't know how to explain it other than that. Like, they just make your feet feel bouncy and alive and, like, I don't love trail running, but I've gotten into it in the last year, like, more than I've probably ever done before.

Yeah.

And, like, you get stoked to go for them when you put these on. Like, they perform that well. And so we'll get into whether or not it's worth 300 bucks in a little bit. But one of the neat things about the shoe was that when I was there, he had a pair in the. In the office that had a thousand miles on them. They looked dirty, but that was it. A thousand miles. I mean, they looked fine, and, like, the V room looked fine. And now I would have sworn that he said, you could resole these, but I can't find that anywhere on their website or anywhere else. So maybe I was wrong. I swear to God. He said that you could, and maybe you can, but they don't tout that. I'm not sure. That might be what it is, but.

I had the same questions with the Speedland. I got confirmation from their PR folks. You cannot. But I don't know if that's. But I also didn't call a cobbler.

You know, do they use Vibram?

It's not. It's a Michelin outsole.

I mean, that could be part of it, because, like, Vibram can. Vibram, you know, if you. I didn't realize they were still doing this, because they don't really advertise it, but you can send anything to Vibram, and they'll put a Vibram sole on it.

Right.

And so maybe that's that kind of a thing where they can. They could figure out how to cut it off and reattach it. I don't know. I swear to God. He said that you could.

Yeah.

But the longevity is, like, a huge part of why the shoe costs so much. Performance wise, it's great, but the longevity is really what you're paying for.

So they said that you saw a pair that went a thousand miles. Do they have a sort of public number that they try to stand behind or that they would say they tell you what it is?

No, not really. Like, they say that, like, most shoes need to be replaced after, like, 500 miles. Right. And which I think is kind of standard, although I don't. I mean, that's a lot.

No, that's. That's Higher. I mean, most. Like, if you're like regular running shoes, they'll tell you like 300 is kind of where that. But. But even then that's low. That's just kind of like them covering their own ass. I always felt like.

So, yeah, so, you know, their website will say like 500 is about standard. But like, they've seen obviously some that go. That go a thousand. And like I said, all it was was dirty.

Yeah. We'll talk about the speed limits too. But it's. It's the come to me for the speed lands. Excuse me, that. That comes out to me at the outsole because, like, even my. All my trail running shoes that I've worn recently, like, you know, I'm sure there is, like, I've beat up the midsoles, but usually I stop wearing them because there's no lugs left. You know, I've likes. Right.

So, yeah, 100. And like, you know, obviously having Vibram, I mean, Michelin is great. I've been impressed with all the shoes I've had that I've had Michelin outsoles. But, like, I mean, like, there's a reason that every. But he uses Vibram, you know, and like I said, the light base is there. Like, that's. That is their, like, flagship. That adds a lot of expense as well.

Kind of a through line from tires last week to talk about Michelin this week, you know, it is.

I'm surprised that Michelin hasn't made more inroads in the. In the, like, shoe.

I agree.

Category. I mean, I've had quite a few that have had them, but it still seems when you see them, you're like, oh, Michelin interesting. You know, it's not super common.

I wonder if that's just it, because if I'm. If you're a footwear designer and you want to put a branded outsole on, you're just going to go, Vibram. It might just be one of those, like, yeah, Michelin.

You know why? Because you and I would buy it.

I would see it and go, oh, they have Bieber mouth souls. And I'd be excited. Yeah.

To me that means, oh, this is like, they care about the outsole works. I feel like I've seen Goodyear outsoles too. Probably could be wrong.

I think on Under Armour, did they do Goodyear and they may be different. It may be Michelin, maybe I might be, but that sounds right to me for some reason.

I'm pretty sure I've had a pair with Goodyear also, but that's been. So again, we'll talk about whether or not it's worth it to you in a minute. Yeah, but that's been my experience with the shoe. I, I, I went from, like, this is not targeted toward me. I'm not like a hard. I, I like to trail run when I, when I think of it. Right. And I enjoy it. I'm not a trail runner. I'm not, like, doing it every day. I'm not, certainly not competitive. You know, I was really, really happy with the hokas I've had. But so, again, this is not something I would normally gravitate toward. I don't like paying that kind of money for, for shoes that's really expensive. I mean, that's more expensive than a lot of my favorite boots that will last a really long time. Um, and, like, the aesthetic and the vibe is not exactly me. It's very, very urban, very clean cut. Like, they make, they make like, a laceless one. And the founder said this is what he loves to wear, like, to the airport. Right. Like, they kind of looked a little like all birds to me. And so, like, I'm not the target market, really. But I was just, you know, really, really surprised by how much I like these shoes. Just mostly considering I want to roll my eyes at the cost. Yeah, you were, you were like, okay, I get it. So, all right, well, talk to me about your. What's your. What's your. What's your speed. Speed land experience.

So kind of same thing like you told me about the Nordas. Those were cool. I'd heard about Speedland. So Speedland is a, they're pretty, pretty recent brand, founded by two guys who have, like, fast footwear backgrounds from teams like Nike and Puma and Under Armour. I think Kevin Fallon, I don't know if he's a co founder, but he's, he's kind of known for his time at Under Armour. And it's kind of similar to the Nordis story, largely speaking. And it's like, hey, you know, we just don't like what's out there. We want to provide an op. We want something better. You know, we want a better mousetrap for the Trail Runner. And now they're really kind of cagey about how you get give out. They don't do a lot of seating styles. Right. It's a little different from, like, you went to a media event that's crossed a lot. They do. But, you know, I heard from a PR rep, he's like, yeah, they're like, hey, do you Want to try speed? What do you want to know about Speedland? I'm like, well, I'd like to try them. Like, ah, we don't have a lot of shoes to send out. I'm like, well, how am I supposed to know if I like these or not if I don't get to wear them? And then luckily they were able to kind of get me a pair of poly because I wear a size 13. And like, oh, yeah, we have these 13s kicking around here.

You get these. No one's ever going to buy these.

Here you go. Clown foot. And so. And I gotta tell you, you know, I was dubious. I'm. I'm more kind of similar to how I approach bikes, you know, And I have had my times wearing barefoot style shoes. I kind of tend to think, like, less is more, that you typically don't need much. As long as you're getting some protection from the trail or what's underneath you, it's probably fine. These shoes kind of like The Nordis, you know, 275 brace. I tried the. It's the GS RAR, which is the. Sounds like the main difference between this model and the others is these were inspired by Cam Haynes, who's a pretty famous hunter and ultra runner in Alaska. And these have a little bit more kind of weather resistance to them. There's a coating on them. They're not waterproof, but they put some DWR on it to kind of like give it some water resistance, which actually I did notice it kind of kept my foot a little bit warmer, but not too bad. Anyway, so that's the model they sent me. It's a $275 base. It does come with. This is actually a pretty interesting feature. There's carbon fiber plates that are removable and don't come with the shoes. If you want to. If you want the plates, it's an extra 35 bucks. Now my. They sent me the plates with the ones they sent me, and I've tried them with and without the plates. I'll talk about that in a second. They're designed with ultra marathoning in mind. Definitely like long distancing in mind. And just to kind of, you know, if you're. This is your first time listening to gear and beer. So. I used to run ultra marathons and I pretty much have since retired from running because I had a couple of knee surgeries and just didn't want to do it anymore. So I intended on just only hiking in these to try them out. These shoes are heaven. Wearing them. I loved them immediately and kind of started running a little bit in them. Started doing kind of a mix of, like, on trail, because I haven't run in so long. Run and hiking. The fit is outstanding. I will say they look terrible. Part of that is the fact that they do have two BOA closures. That's how you close. And there's no laces on the shoes. I don't think that matters anymore. And again, I'll talk about that in a second, too. About the shoes themselves, though, you know, the. So the upper is a mesh. They don't say it's a type mesh upper. They don't talk about specifically what the fabrics are. Like, we mentioned a Michelin outsole. I only haven't had them that long, so the jury's out on how long that will last. Really interesting midsole combination, though. So the sort of. The midsole is a removable midsole that's inside the upper, basically. And it's a. Like, there's. Obviously, there's still like, foam on the outside as well, but you can pull a very thick midsole out. That's where you put the plate. And it's also means it's not compatible with custom insoles. So you want to make sure that you. If you do have custom. You have to have your orthotics or whatever. They may not work with a pair of Speedlands, but it kind of creates this. And so it's kind of a. I don't know, like, there's. It reminded a little bit of the hokas I've worn, but with a lot more stability. Just there was that you still got that kind of real, kind of like maximalist. It's not quite as high as a maximalist shoe, but real good squish. And this midsole that's removable within the midsole that's built into the shoe itself and then the boa. So I, you know, I will say that I'm like 50, 50 on boa. They scare the hell out of me, but God damn, does it work great.

What do you mean they scare you?

Because, like, I just. I'm nervous. Like, you bang that thing into a rock when you're like, you know, if you're. They're saying, tell me this is for ultra marathons. What if you're like, 25 miles into a run and you break your shoe? I don't know enough about BOA to tell you, like, oh, here's how you handle that. Maybe it's fine. Maybe the cord doesn't slip. But dude, it is so sick to put that on and just dial in the fit. It's terrible. It does not look good. I do not think these are good looking shoes.

They do not look good.

No. And my children made a lot of fun of me. But this is kind of the point I wanted to come back to. There was a time. Well, the time is still now that, you know, whatever. There's a really obscenely high percentage of running shoes that are worn that never get run in. Right. Running shoes are a casual style that most people just wear around. And there was definitely a time where if you made a funky looking shoe, good luck. And this reminded me I put in our outline. There's. When I was tech prepping for Timberland in the early 2000s, we had a style called the Timberland Snow lizard. That was a sick shoe. It had kind of a trail runner with a sort of internal lacing system and a built in, sort of soft shell zip up gaiter that was sewn into the shoe. And for either trail running or snowshoe hikes in the wintertime. It was awesome. But you looked like a freaking idiot with these things on. They're terrible looking shoes from a casual point of view. And they never went anywhere. Nobody bought them. Or any stores that did buy them didn't sell through because I think people saw them and like, no, thank you. Yeah, this is the opposite where it's like, look, I'm going to spend, you know, $300 in a pair of shoe. That is. These shoes are for running ultra marathons and going out and getting out on trail and getting the dirty. I don't really care what they look like.

I mean, theoretically they'll last longer that way. Right. Like, I wear my nordas all the time. Like, they're so they're really comfortable. And I'm like, you know what? Like the. I trust the Vibram enough to wear, like wearing them around. I also wear them if I'm going to run on pavement. Yeah, I don't. Not always. I'd rather wear my hokas because I'd rather sacrifice the hokas. But. But at the same time, like, I will. So, like, I would probably wear through these way faster than you'll wear through your speedlands. Because if you're only using them on dirt, I mean, that's great. But I will say I hate boa. I hate it. Like, I get, I get why I get that it works. I hate it in any. I don't care what I hate. Boa.

Snowboard boots is like the thing that I'm like, okay, that makes sense. I'm into that, like with no questions asked. This is one where I really do like it. I like putting them on and they feel great. But if I were going to spend money on it and there was a non boa option, like a regular lace, I would 9 times out of 10, 9, 10 times out of 10, probably buy the regular lace up version of it. Yeah.

I mean, these already look weirdly the way that these shoes look. If you don't, if, I mean, if you're not looking at the web, obviously you're listening to podcast. Probably not listening, looking at the website, but they almost look like they have Velcro already because they have these like, like strap things that go across the top. Like, couldn't we do that? Like, can we figure out Velcro again? Like, I'd rather use that. Something about. But I don't like, I don't like that you have a giant half inch knob sticking out. Whatever it is, whatever it is, I, I'd never trust it.

If it was like Back to the Future where you pushed a button and it just like, then I would be probably more into it and like it.

Feel like it probably isn't. But like the plastic knobs feel so brittle to me. Like I have, that's what worries me. My favorite pair of snowshoes are boa. And it's like, I would really rather it was just some kind of ratcheting system.

Right. I'm with you on that. I think now the fact that they made these camo because it's like a white, a gray on white kind of camo print on them.

So they're just kind of, you still see the boa.

Yeah. And it's overall just kind of an ugly shoe that is like, this is your, this is your running shoe. Or for me like hiking running shoe. And like, there you go.

Yeah. Oh, there are people that will think they look cool. I mean they definitely are straight, are unusual. But you know, but I, but I.

Just tell you the fit is amazing. It has a little bit more of a traditional kind of running toe box while still maintaining the wider toe box that I like in Topo and in Altra. I was just really impressed with the performance of this shoe. Kind of like you said about the nordas. You know, I, I, I was just walking on like a, like a gravel, like bike path with my dog and I'm like, I'm gonna start running a little bit. I haven't run in two years. I'm gonna start running A little bit like, this is awesome. I just wanna run. And then even then I was up on the little mountain. I talk a lot about behind my house, which has very loose terrain. It's a lot of really loose, chunky rock. And just was trying to like, you know, get. Put myself in like different steep sections and like, how do I kind of move around to kind of like see how these things perform? They're locked on my feet. The grip was great. When I would get to some packed dirt, I would try to like just, you know, run it a little bit on there. I, you know, I'm just, I'm really. I was, you know, I have my concerns about the boa. I don't think they look great, but in terms of performance, like 10 out of 10. I mean. Incredible shoe. Incredible shoe.

My next door neighbor is a like a competitive trail runner, like a cross country star when he was at Georgetown. And he has some and he loves them. But he also says the same thing. He's like, I wouldn't wear them unless I'm running. You know what? They might be his wife's, who's also like a badass runner. Either way, who I forget which one is, I've talked to about it, but they're like.

I used to say that about Ultra and that was mostly though because I wear a size 13 and the toe box was so funky looking. But even then they still. Who was really going to notice how bad?

I wouldn't even. I wouldn't even look twice. You wouldn't look normal.

These are like. No, these are like. These are like Buck Rogers shoes.

They definitely are. And like, one thing I didn't mention about the nordas, it doesn't look quite as extreme here, but the nordas don't have that wide of a toe box. But I would say a bit wider than like normal than like a standard runner would be.

I don't know why you don't have it. I mean, we're traditional pointy toe boxes that just don't make sense anymore.

But no, unless you have like pointy feet, I guess I'm ready for another sip of this.

I cannot wait for this. You know, I hear we have a sponsor for our second sip here.

We sure do. We sure do. Let me take a sip and then I'll. I'll get right into that. Oh, that's good.

My hope for this beer is coming true. I really love this beer. This is one of my favorite beers we've had here on gear and beer.

Well, our second sip is presented today by FuelGoods. And if there's one thing that unites every member of the outdoor and active community, it's that no matter what your favorite outdoor activity activity is, we all burn calories and we all need fuel.

That's true.

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No.

Mr. Fusion. Mr. Fusion.

Oh, from Back to the Future.

We're talking about Back to the Future. Yeah, yeah. That's where Fuel Goods comes in. Fuel Goods is the ultimate curator of nutrition for active people everywhere. Because no one knows more about how you should fuel your adventures or how to get that fuel in your hands than they do. And right now is prime time for fueling. Over the next month, we have Turkey trots, Santa runs, and frosty 5Ks, along with the temptation to refuel using all the desserts and holiday staples that will no doubt be in your home for the remainder of the year.

You might be doing side notes. I was going to say in those shoes, you know, but.

Yeah, I haven't. Yeah, you will.

Probably.

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Those are sick.

Like the, like the famous Ryder box or the one that started it all, the runner box. Which you probably will. If you're listening to this episode, you should. And when you're done shopping for yourself, order a Feel Goods monthly subscription as the perfect holiday gift for that calorie deprived adventurer in your life. Look, I'm hungry. Aren't you hungry? Head to. You are. I could tell. Colin, head to fuelgoods.com and start shopping today.

I'm also kind of thirsty. Hold on.

Okay. All right, so they're great shoes. Both of us. Both of us love these shoes. You haven't worn Nordis. I haven't worn Speedlands, but we both really like these shoes now. Caveat. Neither of us paid for these shoes. So, you know, that's a. That's a big. You know, that means that matters, you know, Like I don't know that I would have. I actually, I do know I never would have forked over 300 bucks for a pair of these shoes. I guarantee you I wouldn't have.

Would you now?

Yes, but let's, but like, so let's talk about why though. I mean, so like I have, I don't know, three pairs of Hokas, all of which run from between 160 and 190.

Right.

And like, and I mean this with no disrespect. What's over to Hokas. I really love the performance of all of these shoes. They're extraordinarily comfortable. They're very easy to run in. Like, it's great. Before I tried the Nordas, I was like, well, these are amazing. They do kind of feel like toys compared to the Norda. And a lot of that is going to be the Dyneema. Like, you can feel that these shoes are quality. Yeah. Practically bulletproof quality. And like, they spared no expense. I mean, these shoes are not $300 for no reason. Right? Like a brand. Like a brand like Hoka, frankly, could probably get away with like dropping $300 shoe and not really doing anything, and people would still buy it. These, These. You can. Every facet of the shoe feels like it's worth 300 bucks. It also comes. I don't know about yours, but the Nordis come in a really nice, like, bag. So, like, you know, which. Which, you know, I keep. You know, it's a nice, sturdy bag. And so, like, I put my shoes in them when I'm done. Like, it doesn't get. They don't get dirt everywhere, which is like a nice little bonus. But there's just every little part of it is, like, really well thought out. Like, it's. It's a. It $300 shoe, and you don't feel like you're getting, like, ripped off in any way, shape or form. Now here's my thing, though. Is it worth it? Technically, no question about it, right? Like, these shoes, if you get. If you get anywhere close to a thousand miles on these shoes, you know, you've made up the difference right there because you would have had to buy two, three. Two or three pairs of hocos, no question about it. But my thing is that, like, I. And I worry about this with Norda and Speedland. I don't. Like, that's not how Americans work, right? Like, Americans get bored and we want shiny new things, right? Like, it's. It's. I mean, like even. Even you and me, who profess to, you know, I mean, we used to be a big part of the show was like, does this need to exist? Right? And like, so we're hyper conscious of things, of overconsumption, of buying things we don't need of buying things just because we're bored or whatever. But I mean, fact of the matter is people do that, right? Like, people. You said it yourself. Most running shoes Are probably not really run in. They're. They're worn around town. They're flying shoes, whatever.

Yeah.

So I. I mean, there's. Having said that, there's certainly a market out there for people that are going to drop 300 bucks on a pair of casual shoes without even thinking about it. So, you know, fine, but that would be my only thing. I mean, it's certainly worth it. But, like, you have to ask yourself, I guess, like, am I going to get tired of this? And I hate to say it, but, like, this is how people are. Like, am I going to get tired of this colorway in eight months?

Yeah.

I don't know. You know, that could be the case. So, like, that's the kind of thing you have to think about. Like, if you. If you tend to get bored with a pair of sho. For whatever reason, the, you know, or like a lot of people there's. Their sneakers get dirty and they want new ones. Yeah. It's just how it is. And so that's something to think about. But in terms of durability or whatever, like, I have no doubt that I'll have these nordis when I can't even run anymore. Like, I'm not going to put a thousand miles on these shoes. I mean, I'm. I guess I might, but I mean, like, I would be shocked if I don't have these in 20 years. I would be. I would be shocked just because of.

How much you actually run and what you'll use them for. I think you're right. If you're buying it, you know, even if you have more disposable income than anybody, why are you spending $300 on a pair of shoes just to wear around? There's lots of other options. Frankly, even the nordis look better than the speedlands. But there are probably still better options in the more traditional space. I did look around online. The average trail running prices right now are between 140 and 170. That's what you see, a lot of it. But even the ultras and the hokas all had models that were over 200 bucks, usually around 240. So these, both these shoes, kind of putting that as comparison, Aren't that exorbitant when you look at, like, hey, there's this seems like a trend in the trail running space, But I'm with you. I mean, like, look, if this is. Is it worth it? It's worth it as long as the shoes last, you know, two to three times as long as $140. Paratro Running Shoe then sure. Then you could totally make the case. I do want to ask, and I thought of this to your point about, like, we should talk more like we used to, about, you know, the kind of the, the need for a lot of the products we talk about on the show. Is there a more disposable category than running, Than running shoes? Running shoes specifically. I mean, in all of the sports that we talk about, there really isn't nothing else that we will talk about. We talked about, okay, tires last week. That might be the exception because eventually you're going to run out of tire. Your tire tread.

Yeah, you have to. They're really disposable. You just have to.

I mean, we're going to talk about what, like headlamps next week. We're going to talk about. There's a whole bunch of stuff where it's like, if you take care of it, even most of the clothing we're going to talk about, if you take care of it, it's going to last you decades.

And that's what we're supposed to be striving for.

Right?

I mean, and we. I do. You do. I mean, that is, that is like a huge part of like making better choices about things and reducing your impact. I mean, that's one of the cool things about the Nordos, Right. They could have just used regular Dyneema and people would have bought these shoes. And you could easily make the argument that regular Dyneema is the environmentally conscious choice because it lasts so much longer. But they use Biodynema, which is like 90% less in terms of its carbon emissions than regular Dyneema is to make. But we get all the same strength and it's blue sign approved. I don't know if I mentioned that, like they, you know, they went out of their way to use far more environmentally friendly products when they're making it. And so, you know, like, there's no argument against it.

Right.

Like, there's no argument against spending good money for something that's going to last. We're all supposed to be striving for that. But you're right. I mean, it's like, I think it's.

The category more than anything.

Yeah, that's how. I mean, it's like it's made. Stuff made with foam is going to break down.

It's going to break down.

Soft rubber that's really comfortable is going to break down. Like, that's just the.

And in the grand scheme of shoes, these are probably some of the, the best made shoes. They're going to Last the longest and the price tag reflects that, blah, blah, blah. But it's also like there is nothing else that we talk about where you're like just accepting that. Like, yeah, that's, you know, that's a lot of money that I'm going to have.

That complicated six months.

I'm going to throw it away.

Everything else I'm going to. I, like that's one of the reasons. And we talk about this all the time that I love boots because like I form an identity with boots.

Yes.

And I guess you don't with trail runners I feel like people probably do, but then they just don't last long. Shit. I loved these shoes and now I got to get new ones.

Like it makes so ultra right now is kind of like think on a downward trend. Like I'm not happy with where they're going. The lone peak was my go to shoe for a decade. Every iteration of it worked for me. Like they would have like, oh, here's the new and fine. I'm like, I'm a lone peak guy. I figure I'm going to always wear lone peaks. That's what I'm going to have. And so. And now they. I don't think they're as good as they used to be. But all that being said, all of those different lone peaks, how long did each of them. I will go through when I was running a lot with three pairs in a year was an average year, maybe more.

Dude, I don't even run that much and I go through at least at. I will. I will run, run through a shoe. No question about it. Less than a year. Right. And I'm not, and I'm not like a dedicated runner.

The topos that we reviewed that. I love the topo pursuits but I guess what I must have gotten. I don't know if I got a little hole in the toe box or whatever. I tripped on a route a couple days ago just hiking. Ripped the entire toe box open.

See that would never, that would honestly, that would never happen.

That would never happen with the nordis.

Like, like Dyneema is so abrasion resistant. I mean it'd be. Actually I should try it. It'd be kind of curious to see how I could cut it.

Go kick some rocks, see what happens.

Like I don't, I don't know what would do it. You know, like that's. And that's really important to think about. Like the, the sole will fail before anything else, which is standard in most shoes. But like it was. The sole will fail and the uppers will literally never fail.

Right.

So, I mean, is that worth 300 bucks to you? Like, it probably should be.

Yeah. I think all of our sort of like, this is a category problem, less than these shoes problem. I think if, and especially since. And I, I think it's worth both these shoes sounds like they're worth the price tag. I mean, they're gonna last as long as you want them to. You'll probably will buy fewer pairs. This is kind of how sustainability starts, right? With like, you buy the thing that's gonna last the longest. Well, these are the things that are gonna last the longest. And you know, if I were gonna buy two to three pairs of $150 pair of shoes, whatever it cost per pair of shoes every year, well, now I only have to buy one. And it's probably gonna last me all year long. So it's probably putting you on a better track. And it seems like that price tag is more accepted that maybe. I thought it was going to be going into this because I heard $300 trail runners. I'm like, come on, that's ridiculous. Then you kind of like start wearing it and understand what the products are like, what your experience is, what mine is. And being like, yeah, it makes sense. So. Yeah.

And you know what, here's the thing, folks. Buying new pairs of shiny, like brightly colored shoes make you happy for five minutes and that's it. I mean, like, you could. I'm sure there's people listening right now. They're like, yeah, yeah. But I also buy two pairs of shoes once for the same price, and I got different, you know, maybe they're slightly different grip or slightly different like style or whatever. Yeah. And now I got two shoes for the price of one of these. And I can. That will last me a long time because I got two. But you know what? Like that. The thrill of that goes away real fast.

It certainly does.

Yeah.

But there you go.

Well, there we go. I'm going to have one final sip.

Oh, my God, I can't wait for the final sip. Here we go. Here.

I don't know. I'm sure it's not down in the Southern California desert in which you live, Colin, but we're having a really nice, like, sprinkle that's only lasting for like a couple of hours. That means it's hero dirt time, which means I'm going to go for a ride. Although having this conversation now, I kind of feel like I should go for a trail run.

Yeah. My wife, just before we start recording, has got Back from walking the dog up, up the hill and it was plenty warm and sunny out. She said she started too late. The dog was like about to die.

All right, well, let's wrap it up there.

Yeah, we did another podcast.

Yeah, we did another podcast next week. What are we talking about next week? I know I'm supposed to be remembering this now.

No, I forgot, I forgot that we're doing.

Oh, oh, oh, are we doing headlines lamps next week?

Oh, yeah, the coast. The, the, the dude, the coast head lamp, folks.

This is going to be fun. This is going to be a fun one. We've been playing around, we played around with these a little bit at Outdoor retailer and remember that that's why we even have them now. Because we're like, you know what, we made fun of these on the show and then we tried them out. We're like, these are dope. And I'm not, I'm not going to say why or what makes them unique until next week. But I was, my, I was annoying my wife with mine last night and freaking awesome coast. Good, well done. And also, also just like another episode. Hold on. Just also another well made product. Just like, we'll talk about it, but like really, really stoked on how, on how well they were made. So we'll figure out a bearded pair with it.

Well, no, no, you gotta, you gotta assign me. What, what do you want to get?

Oh, that's right. Okay, so, so obviously it's a headlamp. So I, I mean, I, I gotta think something light and bright. So to me. And I'll give you some styles if you're, if you don't know. Yeah, please. Yeah, I mean, I, I think this opens up the floodgates right here. You could go to a sour if you wanted to because there's going to be a real bright, like acidic like, like, like there is it a Goes. A Goes is it Goes is a kind of a sour beer. Although it's not usually. Weirdly, it's not usually considered a sour beer, but it is. Tastes just like a sour beer. It's hard to explain.

Gotcha.

But yes, a Goes. Or, or one that just calls itself a sour. Or you could also go with like a super. I mean you could go with like a, like a, like a lager, like a light bright lager. You could go with something that has any kind of like, like citrus kind of to it. But I would, I, I also think you could potentially even go with like maybe like a seltzer or a cider with this. Anything that's really, really light and bright, I think.

Light and bright.

Light and bright or light bright? Put on the magic of colored lights. Light bright. Wow.

Remembering the jingle. That's amazing.

Wow. Yeah. Some dude or woman wrote that 40 fucking years ago.

Probably dead now, hopefully.

And that's in my. Cause it's in my head. Good point. Maybe not hopefully. Anyway. All right, well, that'll do it for us. Gear and Beer is a production of Rock Fight LLC for Colin True. I'm Justin Houseman, and he is here to take us out. He's just back from a trail run himself, probably. He is the voice of the Rock Fight podcast network, Christa makes. He's gonna perform the Gear and Beer theme song and be. That's not him. That's you. You're not Christa makes. I know you love less than Jake, but you're not. Krista Makes. We'll see you next time.

We have experienced lots of tales to tell. Just like you're with your pals. Out on the trail, we review outdoor adventure gear. Pair it with the perfect beer. Now, let the games begin. So glad that you're here. The pudding. The trailhead. We're going to crack open the cooler and in five, a beverage where we can celebrate our wins. Those losses we hold so close. The bottom line here is you'll get the berries that matter most. Gear and beer. Kiran be.