Welcome back to 2020 cosmic context on the Maya Games.

I'm really excited to release this episode.

Being inside of this conversation with John, there was something about it that really felt like the spirit of this project was taking off.

And yeah, it's interesting to think about that because the way that I used to, whenever I would think linearly about transits and forecasting in the past, I would always start with the slowest moving planet.

I would start with the drone of Pluto.

And I didn't want to mandate that this time around.

I wanted to leave it to what I referred to as the oracle of 10 person scheduling.

11 person scheduling.

I don't know.

And yeah, I'm trusting everything to unfold exactly as it is in the five conversations I've now had.

This is the fourth to be released, but I've recorded five.

I have definitely when I've revisited the convos, I've really felt the spirit of each planet coming through.

I felt really initiated by Mars, by Chiron, by Neptune, in each of those convos I was having.

And yeah, there's something to having that initiation moment with Pluto in Aquarius in conversation with John where, because Pluto in Aquarius is the drone that's really holding the mutation, the transformation, the evolutionary unfolding for this period of time, for collective consciousness dropping into its influence to its essence, really did something, I think, for me in giving me a more both embodied but also conscious awareness sense of what the container of this particular series of conversations is as a representative for.

For all of this, all the things we're talking about moving through our consciousness and our bodies this year.

I think there's also something to John's frequency on its own, and then also John's frequency paired with mine that gives this feeling of takeoff.

I really feel like I'm in this project now.

After recording and listening back to this convo, I'm like, okay, the 2026 cosmic context series and the collaborative matrix of woven perspective and parts of a whole and hive mind and individual individuation and individuality and how it contributes to hive mind.

Some of the stuff that we talk about in this episode and in other parts of this series too.

I really feel at this point that I'm in it like I'm being initiated by this project and by everything that is being brought up in it.

I'm really feeling it move through my system.

I'm being shown what the impact of this particular project is really about.

And yeah, as I was starting to say, that feeling of taking flight, it makes a lot of sense to me in retrospect that that's the experience I had talking to John and listening back to this convo.

John is an Aquarius sun.

Aquarius is the air sign that sextiles the fire signs that are really, really predominant in my chart, Aries and Sag.

And I've often thought about the air sextile to fire signs as fanning the flames.

And I just love going off with air.

I have a lot of strong air influence in my chart as well, having my Aries and Sag placements ruled by Mars and Jupiter in Gemini.

And as John reveals at the end of the call, all three of John's big three are air and fire as well.

And so, yeah, there's a lot of fanning the flames in this conversation.

The flames representing maybe mutation and individuation.

And then the air, the fanning being about how knowledge and awareness and mind has a role in ushering through this experience of transformation.

And I'm just thinking about all this now as I completed my listen through and I'm back to frame the conversation and talk a little bit about my experience of it in the intro.

So these are pretty fresh thoughts, but it does really track with how I've always thought about and experienced fire air synastry in the past.

There's like.

This is an incredibly expansive conversation.

And it's expansive in a way that is like.

I don't know if I want to say grounding, but it doesn't require me.

It didn't require me.

It didn't result in me also leaving my body.

Like there was a real gravity to my felt experience that I remained centered in something and yet felt really free to just go off into the ethers of air and space and fire.

Air and fire.

Are these upward moving signs yang or masculine?

And so being really in the energy of what a lot of mine and John's frequency is, it can be ungrounding, it can be chaotic.

And there were times that I felt centered in myself, but I felt really surrendered into whatever my mind, wherever my mind was taking me, wherever my open head was drawing me.

And there were some, some times throughout the conversation when we were first having it that I wondered if I was making any sense at all.

But I just kept going with it.

And John was catching the threads and John was taking me to some really.

Yeah, like I want to say out there, but also in here places.

So yeah, I'll be curious to hear how this lands for other people.

But ultimately it felt super resourcing for me to have and it felt it Feels valuable.

It feels really valuable.

I referenced mine and John's synastry via astrology, fire and air stuff.

And from a human design perspective, we both have open heads, undefined AJNAs with significant placements in our AJNAs.

So an orientation to mind, but in a really unfixed way.

And then the capacity with our open heads to be really inspired in lots of different directions.

It's one way to put it.

And then we Both have defined GS and egos and I have a lot of other centers defined as well.

We're both undefined in the sacral.

And yeah, just I kind of am feeling as I'm.

This is me having realizations in real time as I'm recording this intro I'm having.

I'm feeling like this sense of us being really centered in our hearts together through the 2551.

I have other G channels and ego channels too, but this real like centering in the heart and then this real openness in the sacral, openness in the head, openness in the mind.

And that feels similar to me to what fire and air synastry feels like in astrology.

And there's this other thing that really resourced, I think, us being able to go to some of the places that we went to while staying centered in our individuality and centered in our bodies, which is the technology of the language of astrology and human design and the technology of the language of global cycle keys in the 2027 Human Design Key change.

Rabbit hole.

Yeah, John, I guess buried the lead on this a little bit eight minutes in, but John was my first human design teacher.

I took living your Design &Rave ABCs &Rave Cartography with John and Amy of the Human Design Collective quite a while ago at this point.

And so John is.

Yeah, somebody that's like.

I think most of the other people I've talked to about human design on this podcast series are people who are like peers, friends and.

Or have kind of come through my own teaching of human design.

And it's reversed in this dynamic.

John is my human design teacher.

So there's just like a real depth, a real fluency with that system.

And John is also an astrologer.

And as John and I get into at one point in the convo, neither of us have a lot of experiences with being able to just really go off into contemplation, into curiosity, into embodied exploration of the intellect with other people who are as fluent in both of these systems as us.

Not that I'm quite as fluent in human design as John, but Yeah, just that sensation of where we were able to go within ourselves and together in this conversation, I think was really resourced by our love for both systems.

So, yeah, I just love Aquarius energy.

It feels a little prickly in this era, Aquarius Energy with Pluto there as the backdrop.

But generally speaking, I love the way that the Aquarius energy supports the mutation, the fire burning through me.

That's always happening with my Aries and SAG placements.

So it was so fun to get to have John and his essence and his awareness and his mind leave a mark on this process and a really substantial mark with it being this focus on Pluto, which Pluto's stuff might not always be the thing most at the foreground of our process as we're looking at the astrology of the year, especially because this year, Pluto doesn't move at all.

But it really is, in so many ways holding down the essential process that is unfolding.

It is representing the essential process that is unfolding as we attune to the other planets in this series.

And yes, wow.

It's just a real honor and a blessing for me to have been able to invite John onto this podcast and benefit from his deeply embodied awareness, which in the conversation you'll listen to, as well as early on in my human design studies, has had such a.

Such a profound impact on me.

And, yeah, I think that impact is going to ripple through the grid with listeners to this conversation.

That being said, ripple through the grid.

I have more to say on that.

I have more to say on the role of grid work and relationality and interdependence in the inner orbit of this podcast, of this podcast series with those who are a part of the conversations with me, as well as a more peripheral orbit.

Those of you tuning in, who your consciousness, your awareness, your energy, your attention is part of this too.

I have a few things I want to say and invite about that.

I'm gonna do that on the tail end of the convo, though.

I'll come back for an outro because I think.

Yeah, after you've been calibrated through the dialogue and energy exchange between John and I, it'll.

Yeah, it'll.

It'll just feel more right for me, I think, to share some of these other thoughts I have.

So enjoy the conversation and I'll see you on the other side.

All right.

Welcome back to the Maya Games.

Hi, John.

Hey.

Thanks for having me.

Yeah, thank you for being here.

I've talked about you and Amy quite a bit throughout the years because I'll reference the two of you andor Alok and like kind of the origin points of certain discoveries in my own deconditioning process since you all were my first human design teachers.

So I don't know if listeners have clocked that, but I regularly mention my teachers, John and Amy of the Human Design Collective.

So it's exciting to actually have you here today.

Yeah, it's great to be here.

Yeah.

So I took lyd and rave ABCs and rave cartography with John and Amy.

And then you two introduced me to Alok, who you were auditing, I think the Lyd Guide training when I took that class with him.

And yeah, I'm excited to be rejoining your tutelage this spring.

I'm gonna take John and Amy's Art of Seeing class, which you'll talk about at least at the end.

I don't know if you feel like talking about it sooner, go for it.

So, yeah, John, to begin the introduction, is my first human design teacher and fellow hermit.

24 ego projector.

Fellow.

2551, right?

Yep.

Yeah.

Share that ego channel.

And yeah, I reconnected with John, recently booked a call.

It was really, really nice to be back in that side of the equation of seeing through human design, of being witnessed and reflected back.

And I can't remember why.

There was a logical reason in my head at one point that inviting you on to talk about Pluto in particular felt right.

I don't remember what it was.

Perhaps it was just that you're an Aquarius sun and you're dealing with Pluto quite a bit now.

But anyways, long on ramp to say welcome, John, thanks for coming.

Is there anything you feel compelled to share about your astrology or your design besides what I've already doxxed?

Yeah.

Well, it was interesting when you reached out and invited me to come on and said that you were thinking about Pluto as the planet to focus on.

Because as you mentioned, I've been right in the middle of a big Pluto sun transit for about the last year, about halfway through.

So I'm still very much in the middle of it.

I've got another year, but it's been, it's been on my mind and in my experience.

And so, you know, coming on today is an interesting exercise and trying to put some words to.

To what I've been going through, what I've been feeling and how I've been looking at this, this, you know, planetary force just in general and astrologically.

Mm.

Yeah.

And there's something really specific to Pluto this year too.

Being in gate 41 as the sun entered gate 41.

So being in that rave new year chart, which I'm very novice when it comes to honestly looking at transits via human design at all, that's like a piece of the study that I think early on I expected myself to deep dive into.

And I'm just like six years in now and I just haven't really felt compelled to pay super close attention to transits.

To transits, to.

I guess I should say to the template of the body graph.

Like, I still utilize astrology a lot more for my contextualization of cycles and transits than human design, but yeah, just bringing that in because it does feel like intuitively relevant.

Yeah.

And also that reminds me.

Yeah.

One of the reasons I was excited to invite you to join this group of folks that I'm looking at the astrology of the year with in this strange way, is because you are.

I feel like you're one of.

I don't know.

I don't know if this is just in my head.

I don't know if this is based in reality much or not, but I feel like a lot of people that are really deep in the study of human design either never went there with astrology or kind of abandoned astrology once they got there.

And I always wondered if that was gonna happen to me.

And I remember, I think I voiced this at some point in class with you that I had this fear that I was gonna drop astrology and I was pre grieving it.

And you shared that you are still pretty in process with your own astrology practice.

And I've watched kind of from afar, but I've watched you utilize both systems and that's been comforting for me to see.

And also it does feel kind of rare to be able to talk with people who are so deeply fluent in both systems and paying attention to both systems.

So, yeah, that was part of why I was excited to talk to you as well, because there's a real solid foundation of both systems.

Yeah, I think you're right.

It is somewhat rare, more rare than one might expect in human design to see, I guess, an equally deep interest in both systems and both frameworks.

I know there are some teachers and people who are into human design who have a long background with astrology or came into human design from astrology, which is the case for me.

I had started looking into astrology in my early 20s, decades ago, and had kind of been in and out of it over the years, studying different systems and different techniques, tools and approaches.

And then human design came into My life, I think it was early 2015, so a little over 10 years ago.

And at first I think I took it as an astrological system in general, but I think I just dove straight into it and set astrology aside for a while.

And I really wanted to immerse myself into human design and see what it had to say as a unique system and framework.

But then over the years, I realized that it really is just another form of astrology.

I think there's this, in a way, a false distinction that's sometimes made in the human design community, that there's human design and there's astrology.

And over the years, I've maybe reframed that for myself, which is that human design is a type of astrology.

It's a specific application of the same patterns that we're looking at when we look at astrology.

The same bodies and movement.

Yeah.

Juxtaposed onto the rave mandala in the body graph instead of the tropical or sidereal zodiac explicitly.

Yeah, yeah.

I talked about this a little bit.

I think I did, in the intro episode to this series with Amalia.

And maybe we were voice noting about it before and it might have made its way onto the actual recording a little bit or not.

But we were kind of making fun of the tendency that you'll sometimes see in human design spaces where people will, like, look down on a certain methodology as being 7 centered.

And we were.

And people.

I've heard people in human design say that about astrology.

It's a seven centered practice.

It's outdated.

And yeah, my take on it at this point is like, you can look at any tool, any modality in a 7 centered, overly analytical, limited way, or in a 9 centered, more extra dimensional, multidimensional, spirit consciousness way.

And I do feel like when I discovered human design, it did really feel like it filled a gap that I had started to notice was present in my work with astrology, but not necessarily in my work.

Well, I was gonna say not necessarily in my personal practice, but in my practice sitting with others using astrology.

But I do think looking back, I can see human design did also fill a G gap in my own personal practice.

The gap being like practicality, like somatics and practicality.

And I remember I felt I, like, relaxed a lot when even before I had studied human design much.

There was something about just having the basic tools in my toolkit of definition and openness and strategy and authority that made me feel more relaxed to sit with someone because it, like, took the pressure of needing to be able to translate what I see in their natal chart and then tell them what that means or what's relevant about that or what to do with it.

It alleviated me of whatever internalized pressure I think as a fifth blind mind that I had around trying to make it practical.

It gave me a way to point them in the direction of their own sovereignty and their own authority as the practical point.

And then it totally from there eviscerated my mind.

And I continue to sort of re negotiate my relationship with astrology through the lens that human design has sort of attuned me to.

But I also think vice versa in a way.

There's kind of like a poetic softness to astrology that I think primed me to be able to take in human design in a way that was not terribly dogmatic.

And yeah, you know, you'll he.

I feel like I've witnessed a lot of people sort of my age or my like cohort, like came into human design around the same time as me, have to do a lot of making and breaking bonds with the system because it got to their mind.

And I don't feel that I experienced that.

I mean, in little ways, yes.

But I think part of why I'm going on this trajectory right now is there's two points that I'm wanting to bring in that I didn't intend to bring in when I started this side quest, but this is what wants to come through.

One being that I think astrology and other modalities of spiritual contemplation and energy work that I came into before human design really primed me to take in the transmission of human design in a way that was not very dogmatic and mental.

And I also think call it luck, readiness, whatever.

Like you and Amy being my first teachers, I did not really have to weed through a whole lot of shitty mental seven centered dogmatic versions of the transmission.

Like I came right into like a really embodied, knowledgeable, aware container to learn it in.

So yes, I also just want to throw that recognition your way.

Yeah, thank you.

Yeah, I really appreciate that.

And I can relate to what you're saying personally as well.

I think having a background in astrology and having already gone through cycles of maybe over identifying with aspects of the system being a little bit too rigid or being able to, like you're saying, break bonds and kind of walk away and come back.

I had already done many cycles of that over the years with astrology.

And so when human design came in, I was very excited about it and very immersed in it and continue to be But I think it resulted in me holding it a little bit differently than coming in and then trying to frame everything through human design and taking it to almost an absolute kind of level where if it's not in the map, if it's not in the system, or if raw didn't say it, then it's not a value.

That was just never something that really appealed to me or was natural to me.

And, and so over the, over the years, you know, my relationship has evolved with both systems.

And I remember when, when human design came in in 2015, I was doing astrological sessions with people and using astrology and I'd been working for a while and kind of like you were saying, I feel like human design was something of a missing kind of puzzle piece in the whole, in the whole kind of understanding of these cosmic influences and timing and cycles.

And it seemed to be addressing something that was like more practical, like you said, more deep and more essential about our energetic nature that I wasn't really able to see in astrological systems.

And then, you know, that's pretty cool to explore and study for a while.

But then over time I kind of zoomed back out and started looking at where it fit in relationship with astrology and these other things that I was studying.

And it does seem to be describing something more fundamental and essential.

But it's just one frame of reference, it's one lens and it can be a fascinating lens that you can study for, you know, for years and decades.

But I don't think everything is in the human design body graph.

It is in the shape of a nine centered human form and we have the design of other forms.

But there are certain things that human design speaks to and does well and then there are things that astrology speaks to and does well.

And now I'm at a point where depending on what I'm looking at, depending on the person I'm working with and what the needs are of the situation, I'll pick one up and put one down and I can kind of move between them pretty fluidly.

And I find like that that just works a lot better for me.

Now can you, what is your leftness, Rightness set up?

I'm.

I lean pretty far on the strategic side, so I'm three parts left.

I'm left minded, left in perspective and left in environment, but right in the, in the design center body?

Yeah, just curious.

I'm left top arrows, right bottom arrows.

And I've kind of tracked that especially early on.

I would be kind of in a phase of, I'm either really focusing on chewing on astrology or human design, and I would almost alternate one at a time.

But I do feel like lately it's all a bit more blended, which is actually making it difficult sometimes to talk about it, which I think is part of why I've been feeling more nervous in these conversations than I've gotten used to.

I've entered an era where I'm pretty comfortable just being vulnerable and speaking from my heart in any context and allowing people to listen to that.

But there's a particular vulnerability that's been showing up in these calls for me, and I think it has to do with old narratives about how you're supposed to talk about astrology.

You know, like, okay, I'm gonna try to translate all these things I'm sensing and feeling in my system and pull from my own brewing emotional awareness, but I have to try to fit it into the language of astrology.

And that's feeling harder and harder for me lately.

So that's like a little initiation I'm going through in real time with this series, which I think is probably not unrelated to me having Neptune just within a degree of my Mercury as of its ingress.

But hold on.

Okay, wait.

There was another question I had for you.

Oh, right.

Okay.

How long had you been studying astrology before you found human design?

Do you remember?

I think you said human design in 2015.

That's when I found astrology.

So there's a fun little pattern.

You were finding human design as I was finding astrology.

Well, this is.

This is going to date me, but I think astrology came into my life around the age of 21, 22.

And that would have been.

Let's see, that would have been around 1992, 93.

So we're talking like 17.

Did I do that math right?

17ish years.

Yeah.

And my mother is an astrologer, and that's how it originally showed up in my life, is that she had been studying it and had books around and had a local astrologer.

We were living in Houston, Texas, and I was pretty resistant to it early on, just out of kind of ignorance, I think, and just being young and kid a kid and having a lot of growing up to do, I think.

But, yeah, I ended up going to see her astrologer.

My brother went first, actually, I have a younger brother.

And my mom couldn't convince me to go.

I was not interested.

But then my brother went because she bought him a session, and he came back and said, I think you really should go talk to this Person.

Wow.

And so I went in there pretty skeptical, kind of defensive.

And it was just like, okay, what's this?

I don't, you know, it was, it was a little bit arrogant, you know, and, and by the end of that session I was asking, asking the astrologer for books recommendations.

I ended up taking, taking their courses at that point.

And so yeah, that kind of, that just changed everything.

And, and I remember specifically what it was that grabbed me and I felt like, how does this person have such insight into, into my inner world?

And having just met them today, how do they know what's been going on generally for the last year or so?

And, and I remember thinking like, I really think having access to this knowledge and this understanding would be helpful for me in my life.

This, this could be a valuable tool.

And ego authority value.

Yeah, I love moments like that.

Like I got chills listening to specifically the, you describing at the end there.

Like when something switched for you when you were like, how does she have her person?

I'm assuming, I don't know why I assumed those pronouns because I think I just like, I, I just like integrate shit so quickly and then move on and like forget about who I was before I integrated that.

That I take, I think I take so for granted the magic and the value and the access of these languages that it's like, it makes me undervalue my own knowing.

It makes me undervalue these systems and how beautiful and cosmic and otherworldly and other realmly, other dimensionally they are.

So I just like really appreciate those moments where I'm reminded of like, oh, yes, some people are raw, dogging reality without this awareness.

And also like, I didn't always have this access either.

And it has been so powerful.

Yeah, thank you for that story.

I had asked about the timeline because for me, finding human design was right at my first Saturn square with my astrology practice.

And it sounds like it was maybe the closing Saturn square for you.

About 21 years or so into using astrology, you found human design.

And I remember it feeling like that.

I remember it feeling like, okay, Saturn Square with astrology, this language is like in my bones now.

It's like in my cells now.

And it's gonna be challenged now with this other framework.

And like I said earlier, yeah, human design really has, yeah, changed, I think cellularly, you might say, to invoke Pluto, perhaps my orientation to astrology, but in some deeply felt in my body way that I probably could articulate.

But that doesn't feel like the point.

I feel like My approach to astrology has morphed into in kind with how human design has helped me renegotiate a relationship with my mind, which is largely how I'm thinking about Pluto in Aquarius.

Overall, this renegotiation is probably too light of a word.

It's hard to find words for Pluto.

My one of the day, I guess, is evisceration.

But yeah, I'm kind of playfully orienting to Pluto in Aquarius on a collective level as evisceration of the mind.

I really love to go down to those I am statements of the signs.

Aquarius being.

I know.

And Pluto coming in to really, on a collective level, challenge humanity's conscious awareness of what it knows and maybe even what knowledge is.

And yeah, kind of feeling into Pluto in Aquarius as the backdrop for the 2027 shift as well.

And there's a lot there, but some of the 2027 stuff being in relation to this mutation that's happening and humanity's evolution of consciousness from being primarily mental to being this spirit consciousness of the solar plexus.

Yeah.

Just throwing a couple thoughts into the pot here about how I'm feeling into Pluto in Aquarius.

Yeah.

Do you have a sense, like, how are you thinking about Pluto in Aquarius on the collective level?

Yeah.

And I think that you do bring up something really interesting too.

And what you were just sharing that.

I think there is an evolution and there's a mutation going on, at least as I'm experiencing it and seeing it.

And one of the things that's happening is.

And I think it's for all of us to varying degrees in our own unique ways, but our relationship to things are changing.

Our relationship to.

To the world, to each other, to our minds, to knowledge, to the collective.

And.

And I think Pluto is, you know, in being kind of the final word in the solar system.

Right.

It's like, if you want to kind of look at it through that context, you know, it's.

It's the slowing, slowest moving planet that we're tracking, you know, major planet at least.

And.

And it tends to kind of represent these larger collective, almost like tectonic shifts that are running under the surface.

And then if you have a sign like Aquarius, which is an air sign, it has to do with ideas, knowledge, relationship on a larger societal level when people.

Pluto moves through Aquarius, it's going to, I would say, both kind of strip things down in a way.

Maybe that's the evisceration part of just kind of like stripping it down or distilling it down to some either undeniable truth, which is a keynote that human design uses for Pluto.

But it's also, I think, signaling a kind of a rebirth or regeneration process, you know, that's happening on a, maybe even on a deep cellular level if we're, you know, looking at it from an embodied, you know, point of view or a psychological level.

And so I feel like that's, that's what we're, we're moving into.

And I mean, there's a lot more I could probably say about it.

But yeah, those are my initial thoughts.

Yeah, the recalibration to just what even is collective reality.

There's so much.

When you look at, I'm sure there's people who see this just through astrology too.

I'm not one of those people.

But when you look at the global cycles, key changes, and you look at the cross of planning and cross of Maya keys going out and the cross of sleeping Phoenix and cross of penetration keys coming in, it's just like, is overwhelming to see the shift from a collective orientation to a individual orientation.

And yeah, it's kind of interesting because the mind is like, the mind is always putting everything into binary, right?

So it's like, okay, now we're moving into an individual era, so the collectivism is out, but it's not that it's out.

Like all the collective gates and channels in the body graph are still there.

You know, like the template of the Zodiac, the template of the Rave mandala, the template of our circuitry is all still there.

It's just we are shifting as a collective consciousness in orientation to it.

So yeah, that's what's coming alive for me after hearing your introductory thoughts.

There is like, what even is collective reality?

Like what role does the collective reality play in the experience of self reflected consciousness?

And I feel like where I've been guided in my own process to orient more and more is towards the like granular, local experience of self reflected consciousness.

And like I'm an Aries, right?

So this is inherent to my nature.

This is the program I'm running in this life.

I also am like extremely individual in my circuitry.

Six individual channels, one tribal, one collective.

And yeah, so like it's, it feels very natural for me.

The more I decondition, the more I become myself, the more granularly focused I am, the more like permission I give myself to relax into my strand of passenger consciousness.

It's difficult for me to parse that out from this collective shift.

I'm also learning about intellectually through the study of global cycles, changes and also watching happen on the planet.

Also, the Chiron in Aries transit kind of completing itself right now and in 2026 is like.

Yeah, I've just really been seeing and witnessing and teaching and experiencing in my own system this really intense codependency clearing, which I think early in the Chiron in Aries Transit, I saw it as relational codependency primarily, but now I'm seeing it as society collapses.

And as I have the added context of the new keys coming in now, I'm also seeing it as codependency with external reality.

Yeah.

Wow.

And, yeah.

So that feels like Pluto in Aquarius in words that I hadn't really found, but inspired by what you just shared, what role does collective reality play in the individual's experience of passenger consciousness as a fragment of this whole consciousness's experience of itself?

Yeah.

What a sentence.

Yeah.

Wow.

Thank you.

I think the way you're describing it, it really does feel like the essence of Aquarius in a way.

This question of how do I fit in as a unique individual within this larger collective framework structure within society at large?

And what does it mean to either play a part in that or to find your place in it?

And what part of that do we hold for ourselves?

And I can't help but reference Leo as, like, the polarity of Aquarius, because when I look at the polarities in the signs, it gives me a little bit more insight into both of them.

And so Leo is essentially saying, I'm unique.

I'm special in a way.

I am sovereign as an individual.

And then there's obviously the kind of the creative aspects of Leo.

But I think of all the signs, it's the most uniquely individual in the zodiac.

And then you look at the opposition with Aquarius, and it's the most collective before things start kind of breaking down, dissolving, and merging in Pisces.

Right.

So we've got.

We've gone all the way around the wheel to get to this point in our society.

And Pluto seems to be one of the markers or timekeepers with this process as it slowly is going around the wheel.

And so it's raising these questions about our relationship to the whole.

Our relationship to ourselves.

I feel like Pluto brings in these questions of power or ownership as well.

And it tends to surface things.

From what I've seen, I think there's something kind of a hidden quality about Pluto when it's working.

There's something unseen or under the surface, and there's something evolutionary about it.

And at some point it's like the truth or whatever has been going on under the surface emerges and comes up and then we're faced with our relationship with it.

We're faced with, all right, what is my relationship to the collective?

What is my relationship to myself?

And.

Or what's the truth of it?

And do I have a sense of power and agency in it as a.

As a unique being and as a collective being?

And so all of those things I think are up for us right now.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah.

I too am obsessed with polarity and opposites and understanding the essences of the sign.

I sometimes find myself saying the signs are just each other in drag.

Like, you know, the way Aquarius will insist so intensely on that it doesn't need any special recognition such that it becomes a real grasping at special recognition through its resistance of it.

And yeah, like Leo being fixed fire.

You said the most distinctly individual.

To me, the fire signs are about individuality and Leo being fixed fire.

Yeah.

I found myself reflecting too on Pluto's time in these two Saturn ruled signs.

Yeah.

And if we think about Pluto in Capricorn as the preceding transit to this current pluto in Aquarius 1 and just, yeah, kind of feeling into these two different terrains of Saturn and Capricorn, Cardinal, Earth, Saturn, when Pluto was moving through Capricorn, we saw like, I don't know, I don't feel that solid in this statement.

So disclaimer that I'm offering this playfully, more so than this is my final universalization.

But we saw in a more physical felt on the planet in physical reality way.

We saw like a crumbling, a decimation and evisceration of our systems collectively.

And it feels like, yeah, this Pluto in Aquarius time feels like surreal, you know, like there's a.

Like we wake up and we look at collective reality these days and we're like, what, like Trump shit his pants on national television?

Like Deepak Chopras in the Epstein Files?

I saw yesterday this thing I'm describing that people are very familiar with of.

We look at the news and it's just like, what?

It's a circus.

I'm kind of feeling into this Pluto in Aquarius transit being the echo of the Pluto in Capricorn transit where the teeth that the old systems, the physical manifestations of collective reality had on the planet, like it doesn't have teeth anymore.

Like people aren't bought into.

I mean, some people are, but many people aren't bought into the physical systems and structures of the old reality, the old collective reality.

But we're still like living in this mental like residue of it that's.

I don't know exactly where I'm trying to go, but I'm just kind of like feeling into Capricorn, having more weight.

Like both Saturn signs telling us a bit about the constructs of our shared collective reality, the boundaries of our shared collective reality.

But the Capricorn piece of it having this physical manifestation and then the Aquarian piece almost being like, if we follow just thinking about the process of zodiacal order and Capricorn being the final Earth sign and Pisces being, as you mentioned, where we completely absolve into the stew of oneness.

There's no boundaries, no spacetime time there.

Aquarius is like the in between.

It's like the passage that must be transited through to get between the final stage of concrete physical reality and then the goo of nothingness, everythingness in Pisces.

So yeah, just kind of feeling into Aquarius right now is the place where, I don't know, we deal with like the mental residue of or something.

So like we're not in the physics.

The last cause of planning is gone, essentially.

Like it's gone physically gone, but the new thing's not here yet.

And maybe the new thing won't even be here for quite a while.

You know, like if we think about Pluto still having to go through Pisces after this and still having to go through Aries for something new in regards to the weight of Pluto to be born.

Yeah, no punctuation perhaps, but I just am enjoying feeling really zoomed out in the Zodiac and the way that you've oriented, oriented us towardsI mean, this is obvious, but I'm thinking about it in a new way thanks to how you shared of just like if we are looking at the process through the Zodiac as the process of life over and over, spiralic life, then Pluto is really the ultimate in a way, measure of that over time.

And so we're really at the edge of something as Pluto transits this penultimate sign.

Yeah, yeah, I think you encapsulated it really well and I'm glad you brought that up because I was thinking about that earlier, just about Pluto's movement through Capricorn and Aquarius both being traditionally Saturn ruled signs.

Right.

As you said, Saturn represents limits, boundaries, constraints.

I kind of see Capricorn a lot about material achievement and structures and kind of the things that we build that are supposed to be long lasting.

And I see Aquarius as being collective, being relational, social, but also having to do with human Psychology in a way.

And maybe this is the residue that I think might have been pointing to.

It's like we seem to have gone through a.

It's almost like the tree in the forest has been cut, but it hasn't fallen completely yet.

You know, it's like I feel like Pluto's movement through Capricorn and through Gate 60 in human design.

It's like the demolition has already been done, it just hasn't fully surfaced yet.

But there's this kind of collective psychological residue and this is the mind aspect of the air signs and of Aquarius coming in, that we're going to have to.

There's a reckoning in a way we're going to have to deal with.

Like you were saying earlier, this, this element of our own self reflected consciousness, our relationship to, to what's going on.

And if you look out in the world like you're saying it for me, sometimes I'm looking at like I don't even know what's true or real right now and.

And I even hesitate to jump to any conclusions.

I'm just like watching it all most of the time.

But I feel like, you know, we're now in this deeply psychological time period and Pluto seems to be surfacing things and there's this deeper process of regeneration going on.

I have this metaphor I sometimes use for, and it's loosely related to Pluto, but it's of a beach ball or one of those inflatable balls that you might have in a pool or at the beach that's multicolored.

And when I was a kid I would often like get one of those balls in the pool or in the ocean and float on it and play with it and play games with it.

And I remember like, if I kind of lost my grip or something, or it slipped, it would shoot up to the surface.

And I feel like that's like kind of a, somewhat of a metaphor right now about, you know, if there's something under the surface, if there are things that are hidden, or if there's a deeper truth or a process is going on.

I feel like that we're looking at a collective surfacing in a way.

And maybe we're at the beginning stages of it.

It kind of seems like we're already well into it.

I don't know, it does seem that way.

Yeah, that's kind of how I've been holding on.

I love that metaphor.

Yeah.

Just shortly after you mentioned beach ball, that's what I started, like remembering the feeling of trying to keep a ball underwater.

And I knew exactly where you were going.

And that's such a good, good somatic memory for Pluto and what it's making me think about in this moment, coming back to the Leo Aquarius axis.

Okay, this is, like, very unbaked, but this is stuff I've been thinking about for a while.

You know, we talk about, like, ego, mind, and I'm often, like, looking at the body graph and reflecting on my experience of the body graphics having in my system.

And yours, I think, defined ego, undefined ajna.

Right?

Yeah.

And, like, I see the way, okay, there's gonna.

There's gonna be a lot of side quests in here.

I see the way that undefined ego conditioning shows up for other people.

And I see it feeling so similar in my undefined mind.

Like the voices of not self or the undefined ego.

Like, yes, defined ego.

I do feel a sense of fixed connection to, like, worth.

I do feel that.

And the shit that's like, shows up for me and my deepest layer of programming because for me, the AJNA is the highest on the not self hierarchy.

It's like, just as existential as what I imagine other people are experiencing with the undefined ego.

And it feels like cousins or siblings, like, it's so closely related.

I just think a lot about, like, the way we talk about mind and mind's role and the grasp that the mind has on us, the way that we, like, position that in.

In the study of human design and the practice and the deconditioning according to human design.

And basically, like, to put it simply, I wonder a lot about the relationship between ego and mind and.

Cause they are kind of one when you're looking at things from a certain angle.

But then, like, via the body graph, you can separate them.

And I've had a. I've done some contemplating around how they both have such proximity to the throat and how mind and ego together have a lot to do and separately have a lot to do with control and narratives of control and how the throat is like the portal to physical reality.

And we try to direct or control our physical reality.

And like I said, lots of unbaked thoughts.

But in the last few days, as this full moon in Leo has occurred, and as I've been like.

I haven't had the nodes or the Jupiter convo in this series yet, but Jupiter ingresses into Leo this year.

The nodes are shifting into Leo Aquarius this year.

It's dawned on me that one way that I haven't yet but perhaps could look at the Leo Aquarius axis is the Axis of ego mind.

Right.

Leo has so much to do with heart and ego that ruled by the sun, the fixed fire sign, like the centrality of the self.

There's a lot of ego themes in there.

And then Aquarius, fixed air, like fixed mind, fixed intellect.

So I don't.

Again, no punctuation here, but I feel myself going like, oh, I think there's something here.

Like I think this years long curiosity I've had around.

When I say ego mind, what exactly am I talking about?

And how does what I've learned about the ego and what I've learned about the mind in human design and in my own somatic experience of life, how does that translate to this bigger concept of ego mind that I talk about in passing?

I'm just kind of curious to come to more specificity in my own understanding of that.

And I wonder about the transits of this year and so much being highlighted across the Aquarius Leo axis.

I wonder about there being some kind of uncovering of like the mechanisms of ego mind and more specificity about what is the relationship between ego and mind.

Yeah, for me it opens up a pretty big, pretty big question and area of exploration.

And one of the things that comes up for me that I've been looking at lately along these lines is in human design we have the rave mandala, which is basically the human design version of the zodiac, you know, through the 64 hexagrams and then the four quarters.

So we have a, you know, a division of four in the overall wheel.

The first quarter is called the quarter of initiation and it's referred to as the quarter of mind, which I've always found curious.

It's like, well, you know, wait a minute.

What mind are we talking about?

We're talking about the Ajna.

We talking about, you know, Mercury in a chart or the moon in the chart, or, you know, there's a lot of different ways we can talk about mind or, you know, like kind of the different, different ways of framing it.

But when I look at this rave mandala question, this is kind of the starting point, is that it seems to be suggesting that in a way that everything starts from mind.

You know, everything is initiated through mind.

And that's why I think overly reduced reductionist takes on human design.

Like, if the mind's involved, it's bad.

Or if, you know, the mind can never make a decision.

It's like, well, how do you separate the mind from anything?

Because if I, if I go a little bit further with it and, and this I think is something that's been coming up a lot in.

In the collective and coming up in either people who are doing psychological research or neuroscientist is.

There are certain.

In physics, there are certain perspectives that are emerging.

That basically everything is operating in a.

In a large field of consciousness.

That.

That the baseline and the.

The substrate is.

Is consciousness.

And if we start framing things that way, it starts making a little bit more sense of, like, well, everything is emerging from this sea of consciousness.

Consciousness just is.

And then, you know, when we.

When we come into the world, we are basically coming in as a.

A single point of consciousness that's taking on form within a separate human body.

Right.

And then we start developing a.

Of reality and worldview based on that.

And this is going back, I think, to the Aquarius.

Leo.

Polarity is like this question of recognizing how unique each of us are.

And yet we are still part of something much larger that cannot really be separated.

And then we were talking earlier about this movement from Aquarius into Pisces next.

But we're at this stage of it where I feel like a lot of us may be waking up to a kind of almost remembering or knowing, like, what we actually are.

That we are more than just these forms, you know, and we are connected with the whole in a way that maybe we haven't always been thinking about or maybe it wasn't in our education, you know.

And so that's where it goes for me.

And then this kind of the death of the ego mind is, in a way, I think, a letting go and a dying to these.

These old ways of thinking.

These.

This.

This maybe the sense of, on one end, like, complete separation and aloneness and, you know, the alienation that can come from, you know, being an individual or being completely sucked into a collective structure and framework that.

Where there's actually a loss of individuality with oppositions and polarities.

There's usually some balance in the middle.

There's some reconciliation.

I think at some point that happens.

And I wonder if Pluto moving through Aquarius is setting the stage, in a sense, the backstory.

And then you've got these transits like Jupiter moving into Leo and then the node shifting to Leo and Aquarius.

And then all of a sudden, we're gonna be working this out for the next couple years, which then sets the stage for something else.

Yeah, I feel like, okay, one of the attunements of this conversation for me so far is I feel like you're attuning me or.

And.

Or Pluto is attuning me.

Pluto through you.

While Pluto's on your sun right now.

Is attuning me to time and slowness.

I'm thinking about like, you know, next year is 2027.

So those of us looking at kairos time unfolding through the lens of this global cycle shift, we've been looking to 2027.

We're like, we're there, it's here, it's coming.

From an astrological perspective, there's a lot of emphasis on Saturn, Neptune at 0 degrees, Aries.

That really feels like new beginnings.

And then take all the cosmic language systems out.

Just look at what's happening in the collective reality right now.

And you can feel like we are on the cusp of something.

And I feel like through attuning to the zodiac and the process of the zodiac and specifically that Pluto, this really deep under the surface slow pulse is an Aquarius.

It's pulling me into a different vantage point on the scope of everything where like, yes, I think this year momentum is gonna happen.

Maybe on a more 3D surface level.

Things are moving fast.

This we arrive to 2027 next year.

And on the slower, more unconscious scope of the pulse of karmic evolution, it's still in Aquarius.

And I'm thinking about what you bring in about the quarter of initiation and that being about mind.

Pluto in Aquarius feels like death, rebirth of the mind.

Like, yes, all the air signs are mind, but Aquarius is fixed air.

Like, it's like the depth of mind it makes me feel.

It gives me a sort of a sense of peace and calm and readiness to endure Pluto in a Saturn sign.

To endure what this year will be, what the rest of our lifetimes will likely be.

Which is that I don't think physical reality and collective reality are going to catch up anytime super soon to the like deep under the surface cellular level, karmic unconscious transformation that's happening.

That's kind of where I've found myself in this moment.

And one way that I've felt a similar attunement to this is in my study of global cycles.

Listening to the way that Ra talked about how the cross of planning is the last era for our species and that those of us alive today, we are kind of the doulas, the midwives for the new era.

But it's not for us like it is not for this iteration of human consciousness, the new era.

So there's something about that that feels like.

I don't know if like humbling is the word.

I think it kind of does feel humbling because the other side of Aquarius Leo can feel very like we were just talking about this on one of my community calls last night, like saviorism.

Almost like I'm here to do it differently this time around.

And there's truth in that, right?

Like no one side of the polarity is ultimately more true than the other.

The truth, as you mentioned is like through the integration or maybe even the transcendence, like being able to see the limitation of the polarity from a dimension outside of the third dimension where solar plexus consciousness, there's more nuance to it.

But yeah, with the south node moving into Leo this year and Pluto working its way through this slow process of some kind of unconscious shift on a very long term scale.

Yeah, maybe it's time to pause.

There's more percolating, but I feel myself straining to make it come together.

So I'll just pause instead of falling privy to my open head pressures, Scope, release of saviorism.

That's.

There's something in that feeling, like freshly relevant.

Yeah, yeah.

Like none of us are doing this.

None of us are controlling it.

We don't need to save the planet.

I recently came across that phrase, we blame society, but we are society.

Which I guess is popular, but I don't think I had ever heard it before or remembered it.

And that feels very Pluto in Aquarius.

It feels very like when I think about the South Node moving through Leo, it's like at the end of the South Node in Leo transit there will be this potential to be really in tune with the truth of our egocentric nature, which feels related to like passenger consciousness, but in a way that's been stripped of all of the like.

Yeah, control and lore and saviorism.

Maybe that could come with that.

Yeah, yeah, I think I know what you mean.

I think I know where you're going.

Or I can relate in a way.

I feel like there's this question of ownership in this and maybe this is somewhat due to my Pluto sun transit going on right now.

It could be the way I'm holding it.

But I feel like this question of the savior, at least for me personally, because when I came to my car on return, one of the big themes was I was looking around and I realized that most of my life I thought something outside of me was going to, to take care of it.

You know, maybe in the early life it's your parents, you know, if, if.

Or it's some other authority figure or it's going to be this, the company or this institution or you know, something, something outside of us is going to save Maybe it's the aliens.

You know, it's going to come at some point and it's going to save us.

But for me, there was a real reckoning that kind of hit around that time.

And I think I'm still kind of settling into that with this Pluto sun transit, where there's a kind of ownership or responsibility that's been coming up in terms of owning my life choices, my decisions, and then realizing through that, tapping deeper into my own personal power in terms of my own sense of agency.

And so that's the first thing that comes up, is I feel like there's something in the mix of all of this that's causing us to really turn back towards ourselves if we can't.

And this is very much in line with Ra's whole take on inner authority and the breakdown of outer authority.

And we were talking about Pluto going through Capricorn earlier.

I think it's become harder and harder to put any trust in things outside of ourselves.

And so human design comes in and says, hey, you've got it inside.

You look inside.

You've.

You've got either a process or a center or some point of reference in your own experience that is true for you.

And, and so I think that's, in a way, that's what's coming up for us is a kind of ownership.

And also, the.

The other thing that I was thinking, and I won't go too far with this, but I'll pause here, is a kind of inevitability in it all with Pluto where, you know, if we continue to do things this way, well, we're going to hit a limit.

We're going to hit the end.

It's going to break down.

You can't keep, you know, insisting on a certain way of doing things without getting the consequences of that.

You can only hold the beach ball underwater for so long.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

I was.

I was like, making this connection to what you were talking about with the.

The mind initiating things, the mind being first.

And.

Yeah, there's something with.

So I'm a SAG rising.

So Aquarius is my third whole sign house.

And so I think there's a lot of my own subjective orientation to Pluto in Aquarius being in the third house for me, which I sometimes think about how, according to the Sibley chart, the United States is also a SAG rising.

And so how the transits are hitting my life are also how they're hitting SAG rising, America's life.

So perhaps there's some relevance on a national level here.

I've been thinking a lot about compulsion versus spontaneity.

And I recently had Saturn and Jupiter both go through my third house as well.

And I felt like my Saturn transit in the third was so much about me having to take a hard look at all the ways that I had built habits to try to distract myself from whatever uncomfortable alchemy wanted to happen.

And so I think, yeah, that's like part of my subjective orientation to Pluto in Aquarius is it's a continued and even more deeper excavation of my third house.

Like my unconscious thoughts, habits, patterns.

And there's this like, Agency piece.

I don't know if I'm going to be able to make the connection here to translate it, but there's this Agency piece.

Agency.

I've been thinking about agency a lot.

In the Virgo Pisces axis of the nodes, which is my nodal axis.

I have south node in Virgo, north node in Pisces.

It's the transiting axis right now.

But I see it another evolution of it.

If we're thinking about nodal transits, at least there's an evolution of what I sometimes call the Surrender vs Agency binary on Virgo Pisces, in the Aquarius Leo axis.

Like that superhero savior energy that could be ascribed to Leo.

And I think the way the Scope thing is tying into me in this moment is if spirit is reborn out of Pisces when it reaches that 0 Aries point.

In some ways we're there this year.

And in other ways, in a larger scope way, we're not there yet for another several decades.

We've still got.

Is it like Pluto's in aquarius to like 2038 or something?

And then it's gonna have its 20ish years or whatever in Pisces.

Like there's a Scope.

I haven't even attuned to it.

Cause it just feels so far away.

But there's something kind of comforting to me in that it helps me feel a little more relaxed out of a way that I perhaps, you know, we're all on the precipice of having the south node in Leo.

So there's a collective assignment coming up to release our grasp on our own centrality, our own saviorism.

Like that.

We're due for that as a collective.

And so what you and I are talking about today and the Scope thing that I keep mentioning.

I feel like it's helping me relax.

Because it's helping me see what little control I actually have in.

And this dawns on me regularly.

This is something I think about A lot.

But what little control I actually have in that, it's just not gonna be time for the actual manifestation of a new something on this huge collective Plutonian level for quite a while.

So what are we reckoning with?

Where is their agency right now?

And if we come back to Pluto in Aquari and this excavation or this evisceration of fixed air.

To me it really feels like just intense mindfulness.

It feels like awareness.

It feels like awareness is where the agency lies.

And it feels like, yeah, I was talking about this when I was talking with Jonathan about Chiron and Aries, that it's been like.

It's taken quite a leap of faith, I think, for many people to continue to calibrate back to the self, back to this singular point of experience.

But that is where we actually have agency.

And on the world stage, on the collective consciousness stage, things are gonna continue to unfold very slowly.

But okay, here's the thing I keep missing is I'm thinking about if Aries is new life, if 0aries is the beginning of a new cycle with Pluto in Aquarius.

We're in the closing sextile to that.

So what is being excavated right now is like resourcing that decades away.

New life in a way that we don't yet understand.

Yeah, but it's the sextile too.

So it's like the singularity, the locality of Aries and the willingness to.

The willingness the courage to pull some Aries phrases into it, to like, tend to it through this, like, very singular, localized, granular thing that is my life and my consciousness and my awareness.

All of this, like, hard to yet understand, hard to yet dissect.

Hard to know how it's going to resource the next thing.

On a collective level.

It is.

I guess that's where I'm going.

It's just I'm feeling into a renewed sense of trust that by focusing on mind Aquarius in this very localized Aries way, we are in this closing sextile relationship.

It's like the balsamic moon phase, right?

It's like at the edge of something, distilling something.

And in the 3D world this year, a lot of things are gonna move.

But if we reorient to something beyond the 3D world, something having more to do with consciousness and karma and the evolution of consciousness.

Yeah, we're not there yet.

Like, the pulse is slower.

I don't know.

I keep dancing around it and missing it.

But yeah, you know, what it brings up for me is this is something that comes from.

Are you familiar with The Hawaiian spiritual tradition or practice.

Ho'.

Oponopono.

Yeah.

And so there's this kind of idea or concept in it that it's not my fault, but it's my responsibility.

And I think about it astrologically in terms of perhaps the rulers of Aquarius and Leo.

So we've got the sun and Saturn.

And I feel like part of maybe what you're touching on or you're getting at is in this.

This emerging awareness that, yes, all of us as unique individuals have a certain power.

We have a certain responsibility for our minds, for ourselves, how we're interacting with the world, how we're perceiving it, what we put our attention on.

And that, in a way, is going to play into this.

This larger societal shift that's happening.

And like you're saying, maybe we're not even able to.

To even to know or to see where this is going down the road at this point.

You know, it's something that's, you know, obviously just kind of coming in and coming up now, and we're in this big transition.

But, you know, it certainly makes sense that it would be setting the stage for something that emerges, you know, 20, 30 years from now.

And that this is.

This is a very critical time period for that.

I think it.

But.

But that's where I've been with it.

I've been looking at just this kind of relationship of myself to the whole.

And, you know, what do I take ownership for?

What am I responsible for?

What can I do?

And everything that comes with that.

Yeah, it makes me think about.

I use this metaphor a lot to talk about what human design experimentation has been like for me on the relational and interdependence scale of contact improv.

Do you know what contact improv dancing is?

I don't know at what point it crossed my mind that way, but as I started to have experiences where I permissed myself to live in the body, that I have to resist it less to live in the aura that I have.

I started to see that, like, in many cases, the ways that I'm afraid of my impact and I'm afraid of my closedness by, like, performing openness or when I perform openness and when I try to do things in response or according to other people's timing and other people's preferences, I started to see that the less I do all of that, in many cases, I see that my timing is the right timing for everyone in relation to me, at least.

Right.

Like me being in a position of integrity according to my own inner Authority is the foundational condition that allows for even the potential of us to be in integrity together.

And I started, I found myself starting to explain it as it like kind of felt like contact improv.

Like if everybody is just relaxed, trusting their body, then we just touch off each other in all the right moments, in all the right ways and it just can become this very relaxed dance.

And that's like, I don't, I don't.

This is not how I experience life all the time, every day.

But I do feel like I've gotten to see some really cool examples in many different arenas of my life.

In my day to day house life with my family, in situations with more extended family that I see less.

And I point those out to say, not only with other people who are experimenting with human design, I see that when I tend to my own system, the quality of exchange improves in all directions.

And yeah, this kind of brings me back to something I was bringing in earlier of like, what even is collective?

What even is collective reality?

And you know, the idea that it's all a simulation and collective reality is just a mirror starting from the mind of the individual.

And thinking about polarity again and how, you know, duality is a part of the illusion on this plane.

Right.

Like I like to say reality or the illusion is built on binary.

It's when we believe that Leo's truth and Aquarius's truth are at odds with each other, that we're trapped, rather than when we relax into curiosity around how they are these two different ends of the same like thread of reality.

So I've gotten a little, I feel like I've gotten a little space, Mindy here, but essentially like, you know, change yourself, change the world, I guess is the cliche, the cliche present here.

Yeah, yeah, that feels very Leo Aquarian to me.

And I also think about the, you know, when you, you touched on the global cycles earlier in human design.

And most of the time the focus gets put on the cross of planning to the sleeping phoenix.

Right.

But there's two other crosses that are running in the background.

There's Maya into penetration.

And I wonder if part of what you're saying and what's coming up is in relationship to our experience of the Maya of the duality of the program, of the this and that and the measuring everything and the material aspects of it and, and you know, then trying to get to the truth of it.

And maybe at the end of that cycle that relationship shifts or it starts kind of fading and we come into a new relationship with it.

Or we're able to penetrate more deeply into the nature of our, our being and our reality through the program.

Yep.

Yeah, I think I'm being like largely consciously and otherwise influenced by my study of those eight receding keys and the eight coming in.

And also I think a lot of.

I haven't, I don't understand this piece of it, but I think I'm also being influenced by what I have sort of retained and assimilated in my own subjective understanding around the rave.

And like penta consciousness, that feels like the improv contact metaphor feels there.

Right.

Like there's kind of an interesting seeming contradiction around shifting into this era of Sleeping Phoenix and penetration that has five individual keys and one collective versus the last had I think four collective and one individual.

There's this seeming contradiction where, okay, this new era is for rave consciousness.

It's for the next evolution of consciousness, which is penta consciousness, which is in some ways less individual.

Right.

Like the raves are going to.

Yes, People who know what I'm talking about, that will make sense.

And if you don't, don't worry.

But it's like, like through real surrender to the truth of the individual consciousness moving through the individual form that raves will relax into the penta form.

Okay, that's the piece that I was also thinking of.

Like, I also don't really understand what the solar plexus mutation is, but I feel into it as like Homo sapiens intransitus.

As Ra referred to us, this iteration of the human species as like we are gaining access to solar plexus awareness, other dimensional awareness in real time, which I felt kind of primed to receive and believe that information on some level, I think because of what I had learned re modern astrology.

And like Uranus, Neptune, Pluto, discovery being correlated to this like extra dimensional awareness in the human form.

Okay, sorry.

I do have a sense of where I'm going with this.

My understanding of like Homo sapiens and transitists is that we're getting access to this other dimensional knowing, solar plexus awareness.

But we in these forms still are bound to time and space.

The third dimension, where that awareness center is still also a motor center.

So we have to experience like the heaviness of the wave, the actual energized awareness.

We have to move through the process of the wave over time in order to access that emotional knowing, that other dimensional spirit consciousness.

Where my sense, I'm sure I'm not right because this is all just me speculating in my mind, but it feels connected to things I also like splenically solar plexusy wade through is that the next iteration of human consciousness evolution is gonna have access to that spirit knowing in the now without having to have moved through the time and space nervous system activation process, somatic thing that we have to.

And so Pluto in Aquarius, how does it connect?

Yeah, just like imagine being able to have access to Pisces, knowing like the Akashic records without having to do passenger consciousness, without having to get hurt, without having to deal with Saturn.

You know, like imagine having access to the knowledge that one the assimilated multi elemental, multidimensional knowledge without having to also feel tethered to both the limitation of mind and also the limitation of time.

And I think like, I think what I'm sort of what I'm like feeling into here is we can't imagine that now.

But I wonder about the role that this Pluto in Aquarius transit plays in a complete reimagining of mind and also I guess kind of bringing it back to what we were talking about with Aquarius being the second of the two Saturn signs.

When we reimagine what mind is.

To me, mind, Maya, materiality, physicality, they're all different ways of talking about the same thing, which is like the construct of the third dimension.

So I think there's something with Saturn here too.

And Pluto moving through the second of Saturn's two signs and this renegotiation of what is materiality, what is real.

Yeah, thanks for going there with me John.

And listeners.

I'm not really sure what that was.

Well, I think I'm following you or it's bringing up some interesting insights perspective for me in that this is where I think going back to a human design lens can maybe shine a little bit more light on this transit that Pluto's doing through the early degrees of Aquarius.

If you look at the early degrees of Aquarius, you've got really.

It's starting in gate 60, at the very end of gate 60, then it goes into gate 41, then it goes into gate 19.

And so we've had for about the last four or five years Pluto was spending most of its time in Gate 60.

And Gate 60 is part of the channel, the 360, which is channel of mutation.

It's in the root.

Gate 41 and 19 are also in the root, which is kind of interesting.

But with Gate 60, Pluto's transit through there for the last four or five years, I feel like it was a lot about kind of the limitation.

Like things are starting to almost to constrict almost, which is what really Gate 41 is about the gate of contraction.

But I feel like the old order of things which Gate 60 represents went through a very deep mutation and transformative process.

And this was kind of what I was saying earlier when I feel like the tree's been solid, it just hasn't fallen fully yet.

It's still kind of up there leaning.

And there was a really deep mutation that I think we all went through, through Pluto's Transit through gate 60.

That kind of kicked this whole thing off, getting us in touch with just things as they are, the old things that are no longer working, and the real potential for something new to emerge, for this evolution to happen now that's gone into gate 41.

Gate 41 is the beginning of the human experiential way in human design.

This path that kind of goes up through the abstract circuitry from the 41 to the 30 to 36 to the 35.

And it's also the gate of imagination, fantasy, the pressure to have a new experience or to recognize an experience.

Gate 30, which it's looking at, is called the Clinging Fire.

And it's the Gate of Fate as well, which is an interesting side note.

But now that we have Pluto in Gate 41, I feel like we're in a way being asked to get into touch with the power of our imagination or the power of dreaming in a way which kind of sounds a little bit, I don't know, New Agey or woo.

But I think we're there now.

I think we're there now as a species.

And.

And this goes back to this question I think, that you were getting at about the relationship of our minds to our experience of reality, our experience of the collective, whatever that is now.

And we're really looking at, I think, a new beginning of sorts, in the same way as you could see Aries as a new beginning.

And the movement through the Zodiac 41:1 is the new beginning, and the movement through the rave mandala and the wheel.

And we're all, in a way, being asked to tap into that power of imagination or dreaming.

And I kind of see it as like this imagination piece is sitting in between fact and fiction in a way.

We're so used to looking at things through this Saturn lens of this is what it is.

This is the material reality.

These are the limits.

Scientific materialism.

Scientific materialism.

And I think that's starting to break down and it's overdue and it's time.

And then if you wanted to look a little bit forward what happens next because we're dealing with shorter time periods when we're dealing with the gates compared to the sign.

So the next step in Aquarius is gate 19, which is the gate of Approach, also the gate of Needs.

And I don't know if I can quote it exactly exact.

I love the tagline on it.

It's about the interconnectedness of all things and it has to do with our relationship with like the animal world, with resource.

And I don't know if, if you've seen this video that that's, it's.

It's been out for a while, but Amy and I recently found this video on this woman who's an animal communicator.

And I can send you the link, but it's pretty amazing and I think it's pointing to this gate 19 that Pluto is looking at.

It's got a ways to go, but I think it's what, 20, 28?

I think it moves into gate 19.

I'm not sure exactly, but I feel like this kind of very materialist kind of constraint and these structures and these limitations that we've been all operating on that, that they're starting to unravel in a way.

And we see things like the telepathy tapes coming in or Ross talking about the raves, as you were saying, and this kind of group penta consciousness.

I think it's also going to probably apply to our relationship with the other species on this planet.

And we're going to realize when we approach something new, when we are going into anything in life that there is this fundamental reality that we have to recognize that everything is interconnected, everything is interrelated.

And like you were saying earlier, if we can take responsibility for our part in it, our role in it.

Yeah.

It probably will have an effect on the whole.

It's just the nature of things.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's beautiful.

Thank you.

I'm feeling excited and maybe this is the moment I get into transits via human design.

Looking at Pluto through these few gates.

Yeah.

Well, that feels maybe as complete as I non sacral will feel.

Do you have any.

Yeah.

Is there anything still simmering on Pluto in Aquarius that feels unspoken for you?

No, I don't think so.

I think we touched on.

Touched a lot.

Yeah, we went somewhere.

I went somewhere and I think a.

Lot of it is just kind of where I've been with my, my own process in transit.

And so it's actually really cool to be able to have this conversation and to look at this stuff together.

It's not every day that you get to talk about it like this and like you said, with someone who's fluent in both systems.

And so it's been really fun.

Well, part of.

Maybe at risk of going back into some kind of weird, inarticulable, swampy place you mentioned like the telepathy tapes and yeah, a lot of people I think, who've heard Ross speak about raves listening to the telepathy tapes are like.

Well, like there's.

Okay, there's something here, I think along with Pluto in Aquarius and 2026 astrology having so much to do with.

With the Leo Aquarius axis.

There's something that's been coming online for me around ownership, but not in the way you were bringing it up.

Ownership in like a recognition piece, like a ego piece of wanting to be resourced in whatever way for one's contribution to the whole.

I see stuff around that coming up in me more lately and I see it coming up in my relationships and my community.

And yeah, there's something there that feels connected to me to the telepathy piece because it's like the more that I. I'll try to speak for myself rather than overly universalized, but the more that I feel relaxed into the flow of life, the more like dropped into my innocence motivated way of conceptualizing reality that I am.

The less I actually like, need.

The less codependent I am with, with my external reality, the less I need people or money or whatever it is to validate for me that I am as a sovereign, unique, separate being contributing to this like contact, improv dance of the whole.

I can't remember how I started that sentence, but I.

The more awake I am and relaxed I am, the less I feel reliant on external reality to validate for me that I am A Part 1, 3740 My, my design nodes.

That I'm a part of the whole.

Right?

That I'm a part that is just inherently part of the whole.

And I think there's something here with like I'm noticing the, the way that I used to see like the idea of intellectual property, I guess, you know, and just like credit in general.

I feel like I used to see more dialogue about like credit, credit, give credit where it's due, pay homage to your lineage.

And like I still, I'd like to do that.

You know, I'm always, like I said, referencing you and Amy and Alok, whenever there's like a piece of my own awareness that I can trace back to a seed that it started as Consciously for me, like, it feels natural and good for me.

Maybe that is a little bit of a defined ego thing too, to say, like, to share the context of how this came alive for me and honor and recognize is an individual source of it as another part of the whole that brought this to me through the grid work of it all.

But, okay, where I'm trying to go is I think I'm seeing in my own system.

And I feel like I'm hearing this be reflected back to me from other folks that I'm in communication with right now that, like, a lot of us are just, like, thinking about the same thing at the same time.

And it's getting harder and harder to discern what was the origin point of that, like, realization or that awareness or that impact.

And I remember thinking about this years ago where I was like, well, yeah, when we're utilizing, for example, the technology of astrology, transits even, it's like, attuning us to be able to be more, like, focused on what's actually unfolding in the collective consciousness.

So if more and more people are wearing, I call them, these cosmic language goggles and watching reality and knowing that, well, Pluto's in Aquarius right now, and the sun's in Aquarius, and everything's in Aquarius right now.

All these planets are in Aquarius, then we're like, we have a clearer line of sight through the assimilation of this technology as to what's actually happening.

And so we're going to be like the hive mind.

You know, the collective mind is going to be.

And that's like.

Like, now I'm back to, like, individual awakening, collective awakening.

They're the same thing.

But, yeah, that's just.

I think maybe on like, a slightly more superficial level, I anticipate that being a theme moving forward this year and beyond.

Like, maybe that south node in Leo, too.

Like a little bit of a humbling around, like, oh, did that even originate in me?

And also, like, is that even relevant?

Does it really matter?

Because I feel less and less like I'm teaching anyone anything.

And I think this is also CrossFit planning in Maya Keys, like, 61 and 62 going, right.

And I feel more and more like I'm just, like, attuning to myself and becoming a tuning fork and being like, okay, you do that too.

Let's all just be us.

Let's all just be honest.

Let's all just be real.

Let's all just be relaxed and change is happening that way rather than through, like, a dissemination of knowledge.

Yeah.

So those Topics have felt very alive for me lately, and obviously they're connected to this drone of Pluto in Aquarius.

But there were some moments throughout this conversation where I started to feel into the telepathy of that and the interconnectivity of that in a different way.

And that is also like a possibly surface level, more practical example of what I mean when I say our entire orientation to what is knowledge and what is mind and what is collective reality is enduring some kind of really deep renewal right now.

Yeah.

And I think it also brings up just the question of what these frameworks, astrology and human design are.

In a way, I feel like, like, more and more I'm seeing them as these are basically a kind of lens or map that we can look through to see and better understand nature's patterns and timing and principles.

I mean, literally, if we're tracking the movement of the planets in the solar system as they relate to us here on the Earth, that's pretty fundamental to me.

It's like, where people say, I don't believe in astrology.

And I'm like, well, which part?

Yeah, like, how deep do you want to go with that discussion?

What do you not believe in?

Yeah, yeah.

I don't believe in the sun and the moon.

It's like, okay.

And I don't believe there's a relationship between me and the sun and the Moon.

It's like, okay.

But I think that's part of what's breaking down.

It's like it's becoming, I think, more and more difficult to hold that position.

And then at the same time, I'm also having some of these experiences I think you're pointing at, which, you know, like, yeah, where did this thought originate?

You know, and, and is this mine?

Is this just something that's moving through my completely open head and my.

My undefined Ajna?

It's like, yeah, I'm not always sure.

And I wonder if some of it.

Of what you're talking about is that cross of planning, going away where, you know, if you look at the 4037 in the background frequency, I know, you know, you carry it as an individual.

A lot of people do.

But, you know, I think the shift is happening in the background frequency where the.

The question of ownership, you know, through like, the material and the, the tribe and the egoic, you know, kind of frequency that's, that's dissolving and, and it becomes like, what do you mean?

You know, it's not even the right question anymore.

Right.

And so, yeah, I feel like that's that's probably part of what's going on.

And then.

And you know, and the exchange and the bargain and this you.

And I'm really struck by that phrase.

It's.

That's not even the right question anymore.

Like, that feels like such a simple potent.

I shouldn't lean back away from my.

That's how, you know, I'm getting into it.

I start disregarding the microphone proximity to my face.

Um, that.

Did you say you have an open head or an open Ajna?

Open head and undefined Aja.

Yeah, same.

And yeah, I find myself framing that things a lot lately as like that question isn't even relevant.

And I'm wondering about that being a result of my doing more and more clearing away of my own conditioning in my completely open head.

But I really like the way that you brought in that phrase as it feels quintessential to how I'm thinking about Pluto in Aquarius is like the questions we've been asking for ages are no longer the relevant questions.

Right?

Like the questions of the cross of planning getting down to the first line sub era of 61 and 62 keys, you know, like of.

And the.

Those are.

Those are gates in the Cross of the Maya.

I think.

Yeah, like what is physical reality is.

No, that's not the question anymore.

Like we've gotten to the bottom of that as much as we're going to.

The whole game is changing.

The questions are becoming irrelevant.

And yeah, that feels like the thing I want to underline and punctuate.

I think about how I'm orienting to Pluto in Aquarius is like we still have minds and us as homo sapiens and transitists.

Like I said, Ra taught this next era is not even for us.

So the cross of sleeping Phoenix is not coming to save us from late stage capitalism, I think is one way.

I'm thinking about it again.

South Node maybe moving through LEO and clearing away Savior complex.

So we have to be with the questions as they are now.

Cause these are just the questions we have.

But the awareness that these questions may not even be relevant when we zoom out to a certain scope.

There's something in that that feels really powerful for me and like a helpful anchor perhaps to this next bit of time.

As I think, yeah, reality as we know it will continue to unravel get trippier.

I don't know.

Yeah, it's getting weird.

I don't.

One last thought on that, which is.

I don't know if you've noticed, but I've been having this experience of you know, the algorithms on our screen, you know, we, we've got our, our feeds and we've got, you know, whatever serving up our content.

And the algorithms that, you know, are increasingly kind of managed by, by AI and, and it's almost like they're, they're, they're jumping out of the devices now.

I like, they're, they're.

It's kind of hard to talk about because.

And it sounds a little crazy, but it's like I'm having this experience of like, seeing almost the algorithms and these, these certain patterns show up in, in my daily lived experience, whether I'm looking at a screen or not.

And, you know, so one example, if you're, you know, if you're working with people regularly or looking at a lot of charts, you'll see patterns, you'll just see these patterns where, and Amy does too.

We will often come out of like a session, say, yeah, I just had this 6, 2 cross of the Maya.

She's like, oh my gosh, I just read a cross of the Maya.

Or I've had cross of the Maya all week.

And that's just one example of, you know, of many.

But it feels like the distinction between.

I don't mean the hard lines of Saturn are kind of again, dissolving and breaking down.

And it's bringing me into a different relationship with myself and with reality.

And it takes a moment to sometimes center in that and to be able to hold it or process it and move through that.

Yeah, it's ungrounding.

Like, yeah, now I'm feeling, how did it take this long for AI to enter the chat?

I don't know.

That's interesting.

But, yeah, feeling into Uranus, going into Gemini this year, and the Trine to Pluto and the ungroundedness of it all.

For as much as I really do think the way forward is embodiment and attuning to physical local presence in the now.

So it's like, yeah, I think the last bit of time that some of us have had, maybe this is the closing of the door sentiment, but the last bit of time that some of us have had to receive this information and integrate it into our system so that it just becomes our new mode of operating that is gonna be such an asset moving forward as reality becomes more and more airy and mental and ungrounded.

I don't know if this is entirely related, but I've been watching my own orientation to kind of dualistic takes on AI and seeing how a past version of me from a place of a lot of undefined Ajna wounding and fear would have felt like I need to have some kind of stance on AI or like feel clear on how I want to position myself in regards to it.

But I think what I see, what I trust in my subjective experience of it, is that there's no need to be any more scared of AI than we are of our own minds.

And it's just an extension of mind.

It's just an extension of Maya and I understand and the potential.

Illusion of it, the potential danger of the illusion of it.

But I also feel like that same potential delusion lives in my own system.

And I've been looking at that and learning how to navigate that for the last many years.

And so once again, the questions that most people are asking about AI are not even the relevant questions moving forward.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, thank you.

This was cool.

My head hurts a little bit.

Thank you very.

Like mental, intellectual, but in a fun, low stakes way.

That's what this felt like to me.

Okay.

It's fun to explore it the mind.

When I understand the context of the mind in relation to the all.

Yeah, yeah.

And on some level it's all mind.

I think so.

True.

Just thank you for that reminder.

Aquarius embodied.

It's all mind.

Yeah, tell us about whatever you want.

The Art of Seeing, the podcast.

Where can people.

Yeah, tell us about the Art of Seeing.

So, yeah, the Art of Seeing is a series of courses that have been put together by myself and my partner Amy Lee, through the Human Design Collective.

And it's a practicum format that takes a particular area of human design as a system, like individual analysis or looking at a chart and being able to kind of read a chart, interpret it and then practicing it in a live setting.

It's.

The classes are on zoom over a period of about 10 weeks and then we move on to, I think the next one is Timing and Cycles and that's another 10 week module.

Then we do one on relationship and connection charts.

And the last one, I think we're going to do an intro astrology module which is a little bit new for us, but we've done a little bit of that before and really like teaching some very basic astrology.

But that's something that we're offering starting next month and information is up on our website courses humandesigncollective.com we still are teaching foundation courses.

So the fundamental human design courses, Living youg Design, Rave ABCs and Rave Cartography, which are intended to provide a solid foundation in that system and that knowledge.

And what else are we doing?

We're getting our podcast going again.

It's been a little bit of a slow process for us over the last year, but we're starting to get some new episodes out.

And that's podcast humandesigncollective.

Com.

Cool.

Yeah.

I love your podcast.

Such a great resource.

It's been nice to be able to sort of a little bit, even if you haven't put that much out through it, stay connected to you all through that as I've not been in classes the last couple years, but I'm also excited to be in class again.

Yeah, we're excited to have you.

Yeah, I think it'll be a lot of fun.

I just want to remind people that I have a 2027101 workshop that's free on my Patreon.

I was like, yeah.

Noticing that I was censoring myself a lot with 2027 stuff because I realized it's this whole language that the majority of the people.

It's gonna sound like weird gibberish.

Prophecy too.

So I felt moved recently to just make that free.

It's not crucial information and it's not for everyone.

But anybody who's now possibly four episodes into listening to me and my convo partners riff on 2027 stuff, there is that resource available.

And if people want to go deeper, Jessa and I taught a really long six part course on it over the summer that's also available.

I'll put links to everything John mentioned and everything I'm mentioning in the show notes too.

And then also a new.

Except it's actually a resurrected offering I'm going to be doing this year through Patreon is I'm bringing back Ascendant Assemblies.

I've been wondering what your rising sign is, John, as you've been sharing today, feel free to tell me or not.

Libra.

Libra rising.

Okay.

Aries moon.

Aries moon.

What degree's your moon at?

It's at nine.

Don't we have a sun moon conjunction?

I guess so.

Yeah.

I was gonna say my Sun's at 8:37 Aries.

So 17.

Is it in 17.6?

Yep, it is.

Yeah.

Cool.

Wait, no, that's my.

My node.

That's my design north node is 17 6.

Okay.

Where's your moon?

Moon is 21 1.

Okay.

In the heart sign.

So it's more than a line away from my sun.

Then my 17.5sun.

Fun.

I like when the astrology and human design, like chart mental math collides.

But yeah.

So Ascendant Assemblies is something I started years ago with a group of other astrologers.

It started as just me wanting to talk to other Sag Risings specifically as the South Node eclipses were in sag.

That was hard.

And I was like, I need to process this with fellow Sag Risings.

So I started meeting with other Sag Risings on the Internet to talk about how the transits were hitting our whole sign charts.

And it was so cool to be able to dissect and witness and experience the astrology with others who are consciously witnessing it juxtaposed onto the same whole sign chart.

And so after meeting with Sag Risings in this way for a bit, I was like, well, this needs to be available to everyone.

And I worked with a team of astrologers to arrange meetings of this kind for all 12 rising signs for a while.

And that project was amazing, but it was also too behemoth of a project for me to sustain.

Now I'm a bit post Saturn Return and I'm revisiting it with a bit more discernment.

And so the resurrection of Ascendant assemblies this year is gonna be by Elemental Rising Signs.

So we'll meet just quarterly, a little bit before each solstice and equinox and just do a quick breakdown of what some of the major transits have been, what they will be in the next quarter, and then just create some space for discussion and reflection on how those transits are hitting those elemental whole sign charts.

So Libra Risings, Aquarius Risings, Gemini Risings will meet together to discuss the ongoing presence of pluto in your 1 5th and 9th houses.

Sort of like self identity houses.

And Uranus moving from what would Earth be for y' all is Earth.

From the 4th, 8th, 12th, I think.

I don't know, I can't my chart brain math.

But yeah, we experience the transits in a similar kind of arrangement if we have shared Elemental Rising signs.

So.

So for folks who yeah, want to witness 2026 with fellow astrology minded people and like everybody in my orbit these days for the most part are also people pretty deep in their human design experiments.

So I'm sure human design awareness and experimentation will be part of those convos too.

So yeah, I just wanted to plug that and like I said, all the links to things will be in the show notes.

Thanks again, John.

Yeah, sounds great.

Thank you.

All right, we're on the other side.

I hope that was fun for you.

That was really fun for me when I was recording this conversation when I was inside of it, I remember feeling Like I was talking some gibberish and you can hear me reference that at times throughout.

I like kind of go off, drop something into the field and then return.

And I'm not quite sure what I said or if it made any sense.

And in listening back, the whole thing makes a lot of sense to me.

I think John and I were really connecting some extremely relevant and out there, but also like right here threads, and we were following each other's unique and distinct awareness in a really expansive way, which is my fave.

And like I said in the intro, there was something about my experience of having and listening back to this conversation and also receiving some feedback from my convo partners in this series who have had access to these conversations before I've released them that really made it feel like the spirit of this project was taking off.

And so I want to talk a little bit about the spirit of this project, which if you've been listening to me over this last six, seven, eight months or so, you've heard me talk about this before.

I've been experimenting with these different ways of collaboratively podcasting and I love it if this series is the first time you're dropping in.

Some of the other projects that have fit under this theme of collaborative podcasting have been the Lab Partners podcast, which is a limited series I did with folks who were working with me last fall in the summer and fall of 2025.

And you can stream that wherever you listen to podcasts.

Lab Partners and I also have a podcast called Quality Time that's exclusive to my patreon.

And yeah, there's one of the things I've really loved about the collaborative podcasting is the ability to actually feel and see and know and appreciate the connectivity of my unique mind with others.

I've loved getting to have the experience myself, being a part of the conversation, part of the conversations, and like feeling the influence of other people's minds and other people's awarenesses and other people's uniqueness and other people's mutation and the way that other people mutate me and feeling that be a part of this contact, improv, dance that I am also a part of, that I am also impacting, that I am also contributing to and holding.

I love the way that getting to be a part of these somewhat contained collaborative matrixes of conversations is giving me a real like, felt in the now sense of connection to being a part of the whole.

And having that sense of felt connection to reciprocity to connection to the whole is giving me more context around some of the things that don't feel exactly quite right and resourcing and inflow for me around podcasting, like for instance, that for many people the way of relating to me through this medium form is parasocial.

And that's fine.

I don't have a problem with that.

I'm excited actually about experimenting more with maybe finding the secret third non parasocial thing in being in relation to folks who are just listening to what I'm putting out and to what we're putting out.

But I do feel like I have a little more nuance of an understanding of, of what's missing in that purely parasocial dynamic and in why it feels so good to have any bits of evidence that folks are feeling the mutation and folks are on the other side of the headphones feeling connected via resonance, via their own hearts, via their own knowing to what's being explored and expanded in my experience of conversing with people and sharing my own voice and sharing my own process.

And so I just want to, yeah, I just want to name, I think first and foremost that you all are part of this too.

And that I've loved watching the unfolding of the knowledge of the awareness of the integration of the evolution through the little bits of connectivity and evidence of that that I've gotten with listeners as well.

And I want to invite you if something strikes you as deeply resonant, true, relevant, clarifying, I want to know, I want to feel that connection to you.

It's really resourcing to me to feel that sense of connection to the whole, to listeners, to the grid.

And this is, you know, if you got to the end of this conversation with, this is not unrelated to a lot of what we talked about.

On a practical note, I'm currently deep in a metamorphosis around how I want to be structuring my work and my visibility and my communications with people nearby and peripherally in my orbit and how resource as representation of impact and value and contribution to the whole might look for me in this next season.

So, yeah, up to this point, I think I felt really clear and relaxed in what I wanted to share.

And right now I feel a little less of that clarity because I can feel that I still have a lot that I want to gestate with before I communicate anything with a lot of confidence.

But I did just want to include listeners in my process of this a little bit as it continues to unfold.

And so, so I'm gonna be talking more once I have more clarity, more assurance in my own system about how I wanna be experimenting with bridging the parasocial gap and structuring containers for energetic and financial exchange.

So that's coming.

But a couple things that I do wanna invite for now are I want to invite any way of reaching out and touching me.

So if that's like a podcast rating, if you're listening on Spotify, you can leave a comment.

Those have felt really good to receive when people have been fresh to listening.

I think I might put up a post in the Patreon and maybe in the Discord too, for those of you that have access to the Orbit Field Discord service.

Or I might Discord Orbit Field Discord server.

I might start a channel where people can just chat about these episodes and this series in particular.

We have that for the Quality Time podcast.

So I think I might make one for the Maya games in the cosmic context.

So if you're on the Patreon as a paid subscriber in the Solarium $15 or the more devoted involved tiers, you'll have access to that channel.

So I'd love to hear from folks there as you're listening.

And yeah, like I said, podcast readings, podcast comments, podcast reviews are really, really mean for me.

Tags on social media, obviously joining the Patreon, like, if you feel a sense of connection to the kind of inarticulable thing that's unfolding, maybe other people can articulate it, but for me, I can't quite articulate the thing that's unfolding that's being created through not only this podcast series, but also the other work that's taking place in my orbit lately.

If you feel the value of that, if you feel that it is facilitating something, if you feel the distinct part that it is playing in the whole of your own process of mutation and deconditioning and evolution and in communal and collective processes, I just, yeah, I want to invite you to make that known in a more tangible way as well.

Yes, through these comments, et cetera, through tuning in.

That, like, really does mean so much to me to just.

Just connect to other voices and hear how it's hitting you.

But also if you have the means, then please do support financially as well.

The thing that I'm sitting with that I'm not ready to quite fully inform about and invite you into is that I think at some point I'm going to have a really direct invitation to contribute to this type of work.

Moving forward, I think I'm just gonna straight up be like, hey, if you wanna resource this work and the continuation of work, like this, here's how.

But for now, the way that exists to do that is through the Patreon.

So I can feel that I need another way to receive resource from folks who are being impacted by and valuing this work that is not so exchanged based the way that my Patreon kind of is.

So that's uploading.

And also Patreon is a way that I have that exists right now where resource can be sent my direction and it's needed.

Yeah, I'm really loving giving freely of my time and my attention and my voice to this podcast and to all of my work that I love to do and like would do and am doing for free.

And also, yeah, this is my actual work, this is what I do.

And this project in particular is requiring so much time and attention.

So yeah, I just want to invite you to be a part of it in whatever way feels right to you.

Send back some energetic resource through acknowledgment that you've listened.

Send some words my way in the various places that are available for that.

And if you have the means, if you feel called to, if it feels correct in your body to help to resource it financially, listen up for a more direct way to do that.

And for now, Patreon exists.