Foreign the Hoop Heads podcast is brought to you by Head Start Basketball.

Being with Coach Lanier for this is my first year here at Rice with them, but two years at SMU and three years at Georgia State, so sixth year with him.

That's another thing you want in a head coach where he has these conversations with us as assistants.

He wants us to be a head coach and he wants us to do what we feel is right for our families and he's going to help us.

And I think as an assistant, you can't put a value on that.

Someone that you're working so hard for that will do whatever he can to help us achieve that dream of ours.

So whenever it's going to happen, it's going to happen for me.

That's what I'm going to choose to believe.

I want to try to be ready.

So whether that's getting to learn the lay of the land when it comes to agents and search firms and administrators, I've been trying to get better at that and just getting to know people.

And when that time is right for me, I trust that God will open that next door.

Chris Kreider is the men's basketball associate head coach at Rice University, where he's in his second stint at Rice and his sixth season working with head coach Rob Lanier, including the last two years as an assistant coach at SMU and three seasons at Georgia State.

Kreider was selected to the TopConnect Basketball Symposium in 2022 and 2023, a networking and leadership event that includes athletic directors and some of the top assistant coaches in the country.

He was also Invited to the 2023 J Bilis coaches leadership Program, which is intended to help experienced Division I assistant coaches continue to refine their philosophy both on and off the court.

Kreider's first stint at Rice was from 2017 to 2019.

Prior to that, he worked in various roles at Virginia Military Institute, George Mason, Georgia Southern, Georgia Tech, USC Aiken and the University of Great Falls As a college player.

Crider started as a small forward at three colleges, playing one year at Mansfield University before transferring to Grove City College.

In his junior season, Kreider led the Wolverines in scoring and steals.

He finished his playing and academic career at Lebanon Valley College.

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Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads Podcast.

It's Mike Clemsing here without my co host Jason Sunkel tonight, but I am pleased to be joined by Chris Kreider, men's basketball assistant coach at Rice University.

Chris, welcome to the Hoop Headspot.

Great to be here, Mike.

Thrilled to have you on Looking forward to diving into all the things that you've been able to do in your career.

Want to start by going back in time to when you were a kid.

Tell me a little bit about some of your first experiences with the game of basketball.

What made you fall in love with the game when you were younger?

Yeah, it's.

I guess thinking back, it might be one of the more unique stories that you've had, I guess.

You know, my parents were missionaries, so I grew up in Columbia, South America.

Spent five years there and you know, in a country where soccer is king, you know, I was eight years old when I, you know, started, you know, picking up the ball and playing basketball there in Columbia, South America.

Went to a boarding school with, I want to say, 40 to 50 other American kids that were there for the same reason I was.

So, you know, it was going to class during the day and then, you know, just a basketball court out in the middle of the, I guess it's the foothills of the Andes Mountains in Columbia just Started playing on my own and then, you know, fell in love with the game there and went to a summer camp back in Pennsylvania where I'm originally from.

My parents sent me back there one summer and I guess the rest is history.

So what was it about the game?

Did you play any other sports when you were younger?

You know, played baseball.

My dad, you know, really loved the game of baseball, tried to get me in it.

I tried to play, you know, was a pitcher, first baseman a little bit, but didn't really click.

And then, you know, just once I started playing basketball, just fell in love with it and that was that.

When did you come back to the States full time?

Yeah, so I went, I want to say it was like a couple summers in a row and it was kind of a unique situation.

So I consider him a brother.

My best friend, Nate Barton now, but I went to.

His dad was the head coach at Lower Dauphin High School.

And so I went there for a camp and, you know, we just hit it off and it got to be, you know, a point where my parents, you know, long story short, with everything during the Pablo Escobar era in Colombia, you know, we had to kind of, you know, head out when all that was going down, kidnapping Americans and I guess.

So Nate Barton was just like, hey, your parents are traveling around doing what they're doing.

You know, let me talk to my dad, let me, why don't you just live with us?

And that's what ended up happening.

My parents allowed me to do that.

Looking back as a parent now, I'm not sure how they did that, but from know basically 9th through 12th grade, I live with Coach Barton, who was our high school coach there at Lower Dolphin High School in central Pennsylvania.

And my best friend Nate and you know, he was a coach.

And that's kind of where eventually the coaching bug came from as well.

You had a built in training partner right there in the house, huh?

Yeah, we had a lot of, a lot of fun tussles over the years for sure.

So when you think back to your time as a high school player, how'd you go about getting better?

What was your process for becoming a better player?

How much were you playing pickup?

How much were you working on your own?

How much were you and Nate working out together?

What did that look like for you as a high school player?

Yeah, I mean, I think not only basketball, you know, him and I push each other a lot.

You know, we were, you know, we're basically the same age and so, you know, every day we had our ritual Our routine, you know, we come home from school and we, you know, the ball handling drills and the, you know, 30 minutes of ball handling and, you know, if you weren't doing something for an hour and a half, two hours a day on your own, you felt guilty.

And, you know, we had open gym three days a week at our high school and then we find out, you know, when the other high schools were going.

So we were pretty much in the gym every day and, you know, eventually get into later in high school when AAU was picking up, you know, you tried to get on an AAU team and do all that stuff.

You know, that was pre, you know, a couple years ago, before it really got like it is now, especially in the part of Pennsylvania I was from, you know, eventually tried to jump on a team from Philly and just try to get exposed to higher level basketball.

What's your favorite memory from being a high school basketball player?

Yeah, I would just think, you know, as a player, the same reason I love coaching.

I think you just think back on all the relationships you made, you know, whether it was your high school team and AU team, you know, an all star team, you know, just pretty much, you know, everybody I stay have stayed connected with and the better friends in my life have come from the game of basketball.

It's just been kind of organic that way.

Did you know as a high school player that you wanted to play college basketball?

Was that something that you had dreamed about since you were little?

Or did that kind of come to you as you were making your way through your college career?

When did that become a reality and become something that you knew you wanted to pursue?

Yeah, I was always fixated on the Division 1 thing.

You know, I wanted to be a Division 1 player and you know, so I worked that way with those, you know, that goal in mind and, you know, got to, you know, my junior summer, going into my senior year, you know, started getting recruited a little bit.

But I could slowly, you know, there was a tournament, I forget it was somewhere in Philly and I, I want to say it was.

We were playing against John Salmon's team and I think I got matched up on him somehow.

And when I guarded him, I was just like, this is different, you know, and I just, I realized at that point, you know, there's levels to this thing and you know, so I ended up, you know, playing Division 2 basketball coming out of high school.

But, you know, that summer I was, you know, on the circuit, you know, exposed to some high level players and I knew I wasn't quite ready for that.

So what was the decision making process like for you when you eventually made the decision to go to Mansfield University?

What do you remember about the things that you weighed in on in terms of making that decision?

Yeah, I think that's, you know, I haven't really thought about that in a long time, but the first thing that came to my mind was how, just how the whole thing for me, when, when you say Mansfield, I think of Vince Alexander and Vince Alexander was an assistant coach there at Mansfield that recruited me there.

Fast forward, I end up working for Vince Alexander at usc.

Aiken.

Well, I chose Mansfield.

Why?

It was a Division 2 scholarship.

You know, thinking back, that's what it was.

So, you know, I, you know, just to get a college education for free.

That's why I chose Mansfield.

And when I went there, you know, the ups and downs of a freshman year, played started then I didn't start, you know, and kind of the ups and downs, very immature.

Looking back where there was a.

The spring came and I made the decision to transfer and Vince Alexander ended up getting that head coaching job.

You know, once Coach Hackerman stepped down and talked, tried to talk me into staying, but I didn't stay.

And, you know, just, just thinking about the, you know, zooming out now over the years, just how I didn't stay to play for him, but Coach Alexander ended up giving me an opportunity at usc Aiken to coach for him and coach with him.

And I think, you know, that's the cool part about this whole thing.

Going into school, what were you thinking about in terms of academically, in terms of a potential career?

Was that something that was on your radar at all, or were you just kind of thinking about, hey, I got to get in and I gotta, I gotta work on my game and be a player.

Where was your mindset at as you, as you entered school?

Yeah, I wanted to be the best player I could be.

That really motivated me.

And I, I knew, you know, just for me, I wasn't the most athletic dude in the world.

I had to be one of the harder workers and fundamentally sound or to the best of my ability at least.

But I wasn't chasing professional basketball or anything like that.

You know, thinking back, I wasn't even school sure what I wanted to major in.

You know, I thought international business, because I had grown up in Colombia, spoke Spanish and wanted to use that, but I took economics.

I remember that.

And I just, I said, nope, I gotta change this major.

So that's, that's kind of where my Mind was at, you know, my freshman year there at Mansfield.

After you leave Mansfield, you head to Grove City, and here's a case where our stories sort of intersect.

And your head coach there was Steve Lammy, who was a graduate assistant at Kent while I was playing there.

So just tell me how you ended up at Grove City and then what your impressions were of Coach Lammy and what the experience was like playing for him at Grove City.

Yeah, Coach Lammy was awesome, you know, at.

I've seen him a couple times over the years.

You know, whether it's a Final Four.

You know, just try to stay in touch with him the best I can.

Just a.

A great coach, but an even better person.

You know, just him and his wife there.

You know, I ended up at Grove City.

One reason Coach Barton, the family that I'd mentioned, they had attended Grove City College, so there was some experience there.

And obviously being a.

A Christian and looking, you know, for different, you know, factors when I was looking at schools, I really, you know, that part was very attractive to me.

A Christian, Christian school and with a really good basketball program.

And I'm really glad I went there, you know, was there for two years.

And Andy Blockovich, one of my roommates, teammates, we had a.

We had a room right above the.

Right above the gym.

I guess it's on the second floor.

Thinking back, right above Coach Lammy's office, I think it was like, for two years or at least one year, where we literally, we live right above his office.

But Andy wanted to be a coach, and he was very dedicated.

We roomed together.

And so we had this little routine, you know, Nate and I in high school.

But then Andy and I at Grove City, like, just really, you know, leaned into a routine, worked out together a lot.

And then I could tell, you know, he wanted to coach.

And we kind of picked each other's brains and we started talking about, you know, just ways that we were going to go about doing that.

And that was slowly, you know, in the summer, started working camps.

That was back then.

That was the way you broke in.

So he would do his summer camp in Ohio and.

And his little thing.

And I would try to get involved at some different camps to get my foot in the door as well.

What was your favorite camp that you worked at when you were a college player?

Man, there were a couple really cool ones.

I was Coach Pera, who I ended up working with here at Rice.

The first time.

It was either when I was in college or right after ucla.

I mean, that getting to meet John Wooden, you know, that was, that was a highlight.

And then working camp in North Carolina did that.

Got to see, you know, that and met a really good friend of mine, John Holmes, who's now at Miami of Ohio through that.

But just thinking back, used to try to do like a five, five to six different camps throughout the summer and just go work a week, get paid however many hundreds of dollars, hundreds of dollars they would pay and to try to eat, make ends meet, live in the dorms for a week and then drive to the next session.

And that was a way that just at the time, that was the way to get into college coaching.

So, yeah, absolutely.

I mean, it's amazing that camp circuit isn't quite to that same level that it used to be as we've shifted away from that camp model more towards playing games and AAU and that kind of thing.

And summer basketball has obviously become way more important.

And we'll talk about that as we, as we get into your various stops as a college coach and just how the recruiting game has changed over the time since, since you started.

Tell me a little bit about the decision to, to finish your, your college years at, at Lebanon Valley and, and, and then once you graduate, what the, what the job search looks like for you that first time.

Yeah, Lebanon Valley, you know, full circle, you know, went back to where I kind of grown up and went to high school and almost went back home type thing to finish my career and had a great experience playing for Brad McAllister there at Lebdon Valley for that last year.

I was pre transfer portal there, hitting three different schools.

And I, I think just thinking back, you know, I, I choose to look at it like, you know, God had a, you know, for whatever reason that path I was supposed to take because every one of those coaches that I played for and teammates that I had, I think have impacted me in a very powerful way throughout, you know, my life and my career so far.

And so getting out of college, that this is a unique story too.

Final Four, you know, that's the other way that you got to try to get in there.

So I want to say, I GUESS it was 2002.

Yeah, I think that's 2002.

It was in Atlanta.

And so my assistant coach at Lebanon Valley, Chris Rogers and Coach McAllister, they were going to the Final Four in Atlanta.

You know, I had graduated, I was done and I wanted to get into college, so I tagged along with them and on that trip to Atlanta ended up meeting my now wife, Heather.

And so, you know, that, that Final Four in Atlanta.

That's a good.

That's a good.

That's a good trip, Chris.

Yeah.

You know, went there.

Went there looking for, get my foot in the door in coaching and found, you know, the best thing that's ever happened to me.

So, yeah, that.

That was kind of.

And then from there, you know, through the camp circuit, that's kind of where I had to make one of the tougher decisions, I guess.

Mike Genesee or John Paul?

John Paul Genesee at ucla.

At the time, his dad, Mike Genesee, was the head coach at the University of Great Falls, and he needed an assistant.

And so I guess I had the choice, you know, having graduated from Lebanon Valley, was either go to Montana and take this opportunity at an NAI school in Great Falls, Montana.

I know nothing about Montana, but kind of like a leap of faith.

But that was the next thing I'd heard.

People do things like that, and I figured, okay, well, here we go.

And that's kind of where, you know, the whole coaching journey started.

So when you get out there and you start the job, do you know right away that you've made the right decision, that coaching is where you want to be?

I mean, do you take to it and you're like, man, this is.

This is it.

This is what I want to know.

Even though I'm in Great Falls, Montana, even though I'm sure you were raking in a ton of cash in that job, you know, I'm sure you were just, you know, you were running to the bank every single day.

But obviously, with those limitations, did you still feel like, man, this is.

This is the right place for me?

Yeah.

I mean, Mike is crazy.

I haven't thought about this in a long time, I guess.

Did I.

I knew that I was on the right track, but Montana, I was definitely out of my comfort zone.

And then what made it hard for me is I met this girl, and she lives in Atlanta, and I'm like.

This distance thing, and I'm like.

I didn't know how to process all that.

So, you know, looking back, I don't.

I don't think I was the best version of myself there because I was a little distracted.

And so, you know, the way that ended there, you know, ended up just at the end of the year trying to figure out, okay, what's.

What's next.

It was either go back to Pennsylvania and just go back where I was comfortable or go to Atlanta and, you know, try to start this thing with Heather.

And that's what I chose to do.

And I'M so glad I did.

And I guess that's where the story gets a little interesting from at that point, too.

All right, so you're following the girl and you get to Atlanta.

Do you get there without a job?

And then you have to start the job search process or had you already started the job search when you were in Montana?

No.

So.

And here's where when I am at.

Thought about it or talked about it maybe in this detail ever.

It's like I.

You put yourself in, however old I was 22, 23.

And just some of the decisions you make as a parent now, I think I can't wait for my daughter Olivia to go through this.

But no.

So here's what happened.

It, you know, moved there without a job, started waiting tables at Copeland's Cajun Restaurant on Wendy Hill Parkway or whatever, Cobb Parkway in Atlanta, an area that I end up spending a lot of time.

Like for the next 20 some years, I recruit Atlanta and spend a lot of time in Atlanta.

But my first job there was waiting tables and look through the classified ads, look for an interview or look for a, you know, a teaching position.

I was, I majored in Spanish, but I wasn't certified to teach and so ended up interviewing for a job at St.

Francis High School, a Spanish teaching position.

In the interview, they said, you know, hey, you wouldn't.

I see you played basketball.

Any interest in, you know, maybe coaching, too?

And.

Yeah, that'd be great too, you know.

So ended up being a throw in as a.

An assistant basketball coach at St.

Francis and, you know, ended up spending three years at St.

Francis in different capacities.

Assistant boys one year, varsity girls one year and then varsity boys.

So three years there.

But just the way it all happened, you know, God definitely had his hand in opening some of those doors.

Was there any thought after that experience of staying with the high school teacher, high school coach route?

Because obviously that's a, a career choice that a lot of people make.

And there's clearly more.

I don't know if stability is the right word, but you're certainly more anchored into a home base than you are at the college level.

Or what was the thought process to getting back into the college game?

Yeah, you know, for the first three years, no, I was, I was locked in on, just trying to get to know, you know, I, you know, met Heather, knew she was the one.

We got married quick and I.

We were newlyweds and we were having fun and, you know, just, I was locked in on her.

And the coaching was fun and the teaching was Fun.

I did like teaching Spanish.

And then we got to the third year and I, at that point I got a little itch, like, you know, hey, you know, maybe try this thing.

I didn't know how Heather was going to respond to it, so I put it in her court and so I went.

I took one of our players from St.

Francis to watch a Peach Belt game.

You know, he wanted to play Division 1 basketball and I wanted to show him what high level, division two, Peach Belt level was like.

So took him to a game and the, the game I took him to.

Vince Alexander happened to be coaching the other team, so he was at usc.

Ain ain was playing.

I want to say it was North Georgia.

After the game, I just said, hey, you know, Coach Alexander, it's great to see you.

I didn't expect to see him at, at all that night.

I mean, I hadn't seen him in years.

And he said, I said, if, if you ever need a volunteer assistant or anything, just, you know, I, I'd love to be considered.

And he said, like on the spot, he was like, yeah, let's, let's do it.

Let's, you know, pray about it and if you want to do it, let's do it.

So he ended up giving me an opportunity to do that just from taking one of our players from St.

Francis there.

So it was kind of unique how that, how that happened, but it was a, you know, that was a volunteer spot and so had to drive to Augusta and look for a part time teaching job to go with it.

And God ended up providing one of those Spanish teaching jobs there as well.

So that kind of went hand in hand.

What's that conversation like with Heather as you're making that decision together with her and trying to determine whether or not that's the direction that both you and her are on board with?

Yeah, I wasn't going to do it unless she was all in.

And you can, you can ask her, you know, you can always ask questions.

You try to read the context clues and the body language and all that.

But I, right.

I could really tell that she was, you know, all in and supportive and just wanted me to be happy and do what I felt, you know, I was being called to do.

And, and I just, I really appreciate that.

And I couldn't, you know, just.

You can't do these, this life, you know, with, with someone that doesn't understand that.

So I appreciate her for that.

She know what she was getting into beforehand?

Did she have any coaches in her family or anything that she knew about or she just kind of learned on the fly with you.

Yeah, it's.

I mean, we laugh about it now.

Like, she had no idea that first year, you know, fast forward 10th year and now, you know, now, I mean, I.

She watches games, you know, almost more than I do.

Like, she's watching games every night and, you know, I might be focused on a scout or something, and she's watching, you know, Kentucky play downstairs.

So it's been awesome.

All right.

From that opportunity at USCA again, what's next?

Yeah, so this is.

This is another interesting kind of.

To me, it's just, you know, God, opening another door.

Because I didn't play Division 1 basketball, I didn't have a.

A connection.

And so I knew how hard it was going to be.

And Coach Alexander, you know, obviously, you know, helped me out there.

And so I had worked camp at Georgia Tech for a while and, you know, in the summers and got to know some of the staff at Georgia Tech.

So, you know, being in Atlanta, you know, I was just trying to think like, okay, so what are some Division 1 schools, you know, where I can maybe just try to sneak in there?

And so Georgia Tech was one of them.

Work camp.

And I just heard through the grapevine that a GA position was going to be coming open.

And so I went after that, and I was recruiting it and really working it, like you have to do at those, at that level.

So it was like, you know, midway through the.

The summer, working the camp, and I'd heard that basically, you know, Coach Hewitt was going to make sure Anthony McHenry, a former player, came back, finished school, he was going to give that GA spot to him.

And so I, you know, I didn't want to take no for an answer, but I knew I wasn't going to get the job.

So I was working some other things, you know, like an ops job in the Patriot League.

That was an option, you know.

But anyway, I'm walking across campus, like, Techwood Drive, I want to say, like, right by the football stadium at Georgia Tech, and I pass Coach Hewitt, and he's got, you know, a thousand things going.

He's not worried about me.

And so I just kind of got out of my comfort zone for a second and I just said, hey, Coach, you know, I, I know you're going to give the.

Your GA spot to Anthony McHenry, but if, if there's any capacity, volunteer or anything, you know, I'd love to do it.

And I didn't know how he would take that or what.

And so all he Said was.

He looked at me and said, yep, sounds good, and kept.

And kept walking.

But he.

He said, sounds good.

Something like that.

So I didn't know if that was a yes.

So, you know, John O'Connor, one of the.

One of his assistants, I said, johnny, yo.

Like, do you know what this means?

Like, he didn't say yes or no.

Like, so at that level, at the time, I was so naive.

Like, I.

I knew.

I knew they were busy, but I didn't.

Looking at it now, I still don't know how I snuck in there at the end, but he's like, look, just keep showing up.

And so Persian Williams is an assistant at Georgia Tech right now, and Persian Williams was the outgoing GA And Persian and I ended up working together later at Georgia Southern.

But anyway, he was like, yeah, I'm telling you, man, like, just keep showing up.

And I had had Brad McAllister reach out to coach who had worked with him at Siena.

Like, I had the whole.

I was working it, but Anthony McHenry was hired, and I just kept showing up.

And eventually it.

It just turned into a volunteer spot.

Well, that's great, but what else am I going to do?

So Mount Pisgah Christian School allowed me to teach Spanish from, like, 9 to noon or something like that.

So that helped pay the bills in Atlanta.

Obviously, married, got to take care of my family, so I did that for a year at Georgia Tech, and then John O'Connor looked out for me.

Year two, an administrative assistant left, and he was just like, hey, why don't you just bump Chris up?

And that's what Coach Hewitt did.

So my two years at Georgia Tech, I mean, I'm just so thankful that Coach Hewitt said yes and allowed me to do that, because from there, you know, you know how hard these jobs are to get 364 of them.

Charlton Young, the assistant at Georgia Tech, when he got the job at Georgia Southern, I had worked with him for two years.

And, you know, at that point, he felt comfortable taking me with him, you know, to his alma mater.

What was your biggest takeaway from those two years at Georgia Tech?

If you think about the one most important thing that you learned in those two years that you've taken with you for the rest of your career, what would you point to?

I mean, Coach Hewitt is, you know, one of.

I mean, he's one of the best to do it.

I mean, he, you know, the Final Four run he had and just my job for the second year was just to take basically his personal assistant.

So I like, you Know, did everything I could for him off the court, but he knew I wanted to coach and so he allowed me to do a lot of things, you know, that I was able to do compliance wise, you know, around the game of basketball.

So what did I learn?

I learned that especially in the acc, but when you're a head coach, you're a CEO, and just the amount of things that were thrown at him.

I mean, he was on boards at the NABC.

You know, he's recruiting, you're talking about.

He had 13 guys, I think, when I was, you know, by the time we were done at Georgia Tech, 13 guys that had gone on to play in the NBA.

So McDonald's, all Americans, the recruiting process that's involved in that and then just how he had to, you know, orchestrate and organize his whole staff.

And I had never seen the ACC up close.

And so what I learned was at that level, you are indeed a CEO.

And when you get to that level, you better have a good group of people around you because there's a lot going on.

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, you think about the size of a Division 1 staff and the responsibilities and all the things.

And it's interesting when you talk about somebody being the CEO of a program because I've talked to so many coaches on here, Chris, that have talked about, and I'm talking about every single level of the game of basketball and so many of them talk about that ability to be a CEO where if I hire Chris Kreider, I can give you something that you're going to do and I have hired you because I know that you can do that.

And so I delegate that to you and then I step back and trust that you're going to do that thing.

And I've had so many coaches tell me that when they were younger or when they were in their first head coaching job or when they had very little experience that they wanted to sort of micromanage every piece of that.

And what I hear you saying is that at that level, obviously that's not.

It's impossible.

Right.

There's no way that he could have taken on every single piece of all the things and responsibilities that needed to get done.

And that's why you need to have a staff that, A, you got to hire well, and then B, you've got to trust that that staff, you give them the guidance and then that staff takes it from there and does all the things.

And so many coaches have said, when I stepped back and didn't try to have my hand in every single thing that.

That's when my program really took off, because now I'm taking advantage of all the strengths that my staff brings to the table, the reason why I hired them.

And now collectively, we've built this program that there's no way I could do that on an individual level.

It sounds like that's what.

That's what you were seeing there at Georgia Tech.

Yeah, but I'll just add one last thing.

I mean, but I was able to do it at a unique.

Like, I didn't.

It didn't have a lot of pressure on me.

My title was administrative coordinator, and what I did from nine to four was answer the phone.

Georgia Tech basketball.

This is Chris.

Like, that was my job.

And I had a notebook.

Everything I saw, I wrote it down.

And, you know, I just.

I tried to just be a sponge.

You know, Cy was an assistant there at the time, but he.

Peter Zaharis, John O'Connor, all these assistants, just learning from those guys.

I mean, it was.

It was an unreal experience for me.

Did you get some opportunities to sit down on meetings and some.

Some actual coaching stuff when you weren't answering the phone?

Yeah, all of that, because, like I said, coach knew I wanted a coach, and so he.

That was the cool thing about it.

He allowed me to kind of make my own job description up once he saw, you know, that I could take care of that and take care of his email and his, you know, travel and all that, but then also do that other stuff on the side.

All right, so how does the level of responsibility step up when you get to Georgia, Georgia Southern?

How does the job description change?

Yeah, it just goes from, you know, just administrative side to just.

Then I'm, you know, able to do all the things I had been hearing stories about.

It was like, you know, you hear all these things, and then.

All right, here you go.

You know, here's your email address.

Here's your laptop.

Here's your cell phone.

Ready?

Go.

And, you know, a lot of coaches, older coaches say they never really.

There's not a course for, like, young assistants and, you know, like, even hr, like, it's just, here's your phone.

Go.

And.

But the.

The.

The good thing about my, I guess, upbringing in the game is I've.

I was around some of the best to ever do it.

So, like, Cy, you know, one of the best recruiters.

You ask anybody.

And so everything.

Everything I've learned about recruiting coming up was from coach Hewitt and him, like, period.

So, you know, the staff he put together, just an unbelievable group of Dudes.

So we kind of hit the ground running.

We're in the hotel for the first two weeks and then trying to assemble a roster.

This was pre Portal, so it was a little different.

But he was going back to his alma mater, so he was helping us kind of learn the ropes.

But it was.

It was a dream come true for me because it was my first on the road assistant spot at the Division 1 level.

Getting an opportunity to get on the floor, I'm sure, and work with guys was, you know, a special thing, too, for you to be able to.

To eventually get to that point as well.

When you think about the recruiting piece of it, how do you acclimate yourself to the level of player that you can recruit and start to develop an eye for?

Hey, this guy is the type of guy that we want to go after in terms of his talent, his skill level.

He's not below us, he's not too far above us, that we have no chance.

How do you start to balance out and equalize and figure out, hey, this is the kind of guy that we can bring into this particular institution?

Obviously, every time you change jobs, you got to kind of figure out what kind of player fits the school that you're at.

So just talk about that.

Maybe not necessarily just in relation to Georgia Southern, but in terms of all your stops, how do you.

How do you figure out what level of player you want to recruit?

Yeah, there's two.

There's always two parts.

There's the actual evaluation, and then once the evaluation process is done, then the recruiting starts.

And, you know, nowadays with the Portal, it's so different, but I'm just talking like, okay, we have identified, you know, our head coach wants A, B and C, and we're in school, or, I'm sorry, league X.

And, you know, you always try to recruit, you know, guys that are one level above you.

You know, if you can do that, I mean, it's hard to sneak somebody that's two levels above you.

But if you can, you know, that's how you're going to win your league.

You want guys that can be, you know, all conference guys in your league and, you know, then it's a systematic thing, like for, you know, the style of play and who you're working for and what you're really trying to build.

But I.

That's what I've.

I guess what I learned the most early on is like, you have to develop your own set of eyes, though.

So it's like you have your recruiting rankings.

You can throw those out the window.

And you know, you need to know what you're looking at and you need to be able to project.

You know, this, you know, I could give you some, you know, situations where I've made mistakes and then ones that I maybe took too long to make the right decision where, you know, nah, he's only six one, but oh yeah, his dad's six eight.

And if you look at his face, not doesn't have any facial hair yet.

His feet, he wears big, you know, has big feet.

So he's gonna grow and, and you try to just project because I think there is a, a skill for that as well.

So.

And then once you do all that, then you need to say, you know, you know, it's like, who can you really get?

You know, sometimes you're just not going to be able to get so and so and so you need to cut your losses before you put too much time because you're going to miss out on maybe B or C waiting for A.

So the recruiting is, it's a game in and of itself.

But like, I can't tell you, you know, how much I've learned just from all those conversations at Georgia Tech, just listening to those guys, like how they recruited Derek Favors and why Derek Favors chose Georgia Tech or why, you know, Anthony Morrow, how they got Anthony Morrow to come from North Carolina to Georgia Tech and what they saw.

And so you just try to listen, collect information because you know, that is recruiting too, is collecting information and intel and, and not being emotional about it.

And if you hear something that's not what you want to hear, you can't act like you didn't hear it.

Like, you know, you just, you gotta really put that all together and then it's, it's, it's not a science, you know, you just gotta at some point go with your gut as well.

And if, you know, Cy used to always say if you bat.300 in recruiting, you're doing a really good job.

Tangibles wise.

Obviously you as an assistant coach, you're looking for the type of player that can play for your head coach.

But if you look at the totality of your time as an assistant across the programs you've been with, just for you personally, what's an intangible or two that you look for that you think have led to a player's success in the programs you've been, what's, what's the key to, to finding a player who's going to be successful?

What are some intangibles you look for?

The ones that come to my head right away, just work ethic.

Like, do they really love the game?

If they do, you know, there.

There's something to be said for that.

And then high character, you know, just, you know, coming from a good family, values.

Not delusional, you know, not a transactional deal.

Like, those are the ones that, you know, thinking back, and then you got to have it.

You know, the ones that have a trick, you know, whether it's shooting or just something that they bring to the table.

Like, I think those are the biggest things that come to my mind.

How do you evaluate a kid's work ethic?

Because obviously, if you're seeing them play, you're watching them on tape, you could tell whether the kid plays hard by watching them in a game situation.

But how do you know what that kid's doing off the floor in those unseen hours that's going to allow them to continue to develop?

Is that done through conversations with people who know them?

How do you go about determining what a kid's work ethic looks like?

Yeah, I would say all of that.

I mean, talking to high school coaches, AAU coaches workout guys, people that, you know in their league, their parents, just anybody that might know.

And.

And you have to just really listen, though, you know, because sometimes.

Sometimes you develop your own opinion, and you just want it to be true so bad that you just.

You.

You don't hear what the mom is actually saying.

The mom's saying that she needs him to go, like, work harder and go do more.

And.

And then the other thing is, like, you know, every time you call them or you text them, I mean, before texting, but, like, call them, and they're always in the gym.

Like, some guys, you literally like, coach, I'm gonna hit you back.

I'm in the gym.

Or they call you back at 11 because they left the gym.

You know, those are all clues that go into it.

What would you say are the key characteristics of someone who is a great assistant coach?

So over the time that you've been in a lot of spots under a lot of head coaches in your career, when you think about the guys that you've worked with as an assistant and you think about what you aspire to, to be what you aspire to do, what do you think are the key characteristics to somebody being a really good assistant coach?

I would say the same thing as, like, a.

As a player, you know, just a strong work ethic.

No ego.

The word I like to use is a connector.

You know, I think you got to be able to connect Whether it's connect the players with the rest of the staff, connect the GA's with the staff and players, connect a certain player with a certain GA and maybe another manager to get extra shots up.

You know, you just, and you're always thinking, you're looking at, through everything, you know, through a lens of, you know, what the head coach is feeling, thinking, seeing, what does he need?

What have you heard him say that he needs from his staff or from you, and are you doing that?

But I, I do think there's this profession is.

I, I don't want to say, like it's not cutthroat, but it, it, it can be.

It's competitive.

And so I think sometimes the, the human element, if you're not careful, if you get caught up in maybe the pressures that come with it, or just, you know, you can find yourself maybe a little out of sorts if you're not really trying to, trying to connect everyone and making it about the team.

And I just think, you know, sometimes it's just the way the whole thing is set up, whether it's getting the next job or recruiting and just if, if everybody on the staff can be all about that, the, the program, I think that's when you have something special.

All right, let me flip that question and ask you same thing about a head coach.

You've obviously worked for a number of different guys.

When you think about what makes a good head coach, what are the characteristics that allow someone to have tremendous success as a head coach and maybe what, what do you appreciate as an assistant coach?

Because obviously the head coach is your boss, and so they can make your life better, they can make your life worse.

So what are the things, what are the things that you're looking for in a head coach that, that you feel like allow a coach to have success and also allow their assistant coach to coaches to thrive.

Yeah, I like that question.

I think, I think the number one thing for me, and just, you know, friends of mine, you've.

You've come up talking about this all the time.

You know, we've all had different opportunities and different times of our life.

But I, the number one thing for me is a perspective.

And when I say perspective, we love the game of basketball.

This is our livelihood.

We're trying to win, but just.

We have a family, we have wives, and families are important to us.

And I think anytime.

And I've been so fortunate with every single, you know, head coach that I've worked for, and I think it's seven or eight now, but everyone has Been a family guy and I want to see my, you know, early on it was just Heather and I, but I do, I did want to spend time with Heather and now I want to spend time with my daughter.

So I think that number two, I would say a head coach that pushes you out of your comfort zone a little bit, you know, gives you things to be responsible for in a way that can prepare you to be a head coach one day.

You know, I've had a couple situations in my career where I have been forced to, you know, for a small segment of time, be in that chair.

And it's, it was a great experience for me.

You know, I haven't been a head coach at the, at the college level yet.

And though that experience, though it helped me as an assistant, try to reframe, you know, what I was doing on a daily basis for him.

What's your process for preparing to eventually go for a head coaching job?

Are you putting together an old fashioned three ring binder and a notebook?

Are you a Google Drive guy when it comes to collecting the things that, when you start thinking about putting together your philosophy, what you would do if you're building the program, how do you go about collecting that stuff and putting it together so that eventually, if that opportunity does come your way, you're prepared with all the experiences that you've had up to this point that would eventually lead to that opportunity?

Yeah, you know, that's, that's an area that I've always, you know, try to get better every year.

And, and I think it's not just the, the writing down or the, the documenting.

It's the, the keeping of or the corralling over the years.

You're talking about 20 years now of this.

I think a notebook a year is something that I've done, you know, so it's just whether it's a set play, a quote, something I hear on one of your podcasts, or something I like somebody that somebody said, I'm writing it down.

I'm a big Excel document guy, just old school, but I'm color coordinated some ways that I do it.

But like whether it's scheduling, whether it's recruiting, whether it's staff responsibilities, you know, a separate document for each that you can kind of, you know, I'm trying to do it now, you know, here for our program, and then just so I can just change the name at the top and have it ready, you know, but I just think staying organized like that and then, you know, just in my phone, different notes, you know, sections that I can constantly keep updated and edit along the way.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

I mean, I think today, obviously, it's a lot easier than it probably was 25, 30 years ago to be able to try to keep everything together.

And now you think about even just like a digital library of sets you like and different things that you can put together versus before your writing those out on paper or you gotta, you gotta, you gotta stack of VHS tapes or whatever.

Whatever it might have been back in the day.

So thankfully we're.

We're past that.

How about.

Let me ask you this.

When you start thinking about that, that head coaching opportunity and you look and you looking at when do you.

When do I think I'm ready?

When am I ready to start pursuing that?

How do you get your mindset right in terms of.

Obviously, you want to be focused on where you are in the moment and as you said before, giving your all for the program.

Right.

You want to be focused on what your current program needs.

But yet in the back of your mind, having been an assistant for a while, it's probably a thought process of, hey, am I ready to maybe get an opportunity to take over my own program?

What's the mindset like as you're trying to think through sort of where you're at in your career and when might be the right time to make that kind of.

Make that kind of move?

If that question makes sense.

Yeah, that's, you know, first and foremost, I've.

I've chosen the last couple years just to, you know, God.

God's in control and I'm really putting everything in his.

In his court.

If it's meant to be, it's going to be.

I truly do believe that.

And then I'm going to follow up with the last question you asked.

You know, another thing just for me, you know, now being with Coach Lanier for, you know, this is my first year here at Rice with them, but two years at SMU and three years at Georgia State, so six, sixth year with him, that's.

That's another thing you want in a head coach where, you know, he has these conversations with us as assistants, like he wants us to be a head coach and he wants us to do what we feel is right for our families and he's going to help us.

And I think as an assistant, you can't put a value on that, you know, someone that you're working so hard for that will do whatever he can to help us, you know, achieve that dream of ours.

So whenever it's going to happen.

It's going to happen for me.

That's what I'm going to choose to believe.

I want to try to be ready.

So whether that's getting to learn the lay of the land, whether, you know, when it comes to agents and search firms and administrators, I've been trying to get better at that and just getting to know people and, you know, when that time is right for me, I trust that God will open that next door.

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Download Game changer now on iOS or Android and take your coaching to the next level with Film Room on Game Changer, Game Changer Stream, Score Connect Tell me about the relationship piece with players and how important that is to you and what you've had success with in the past in building relationships.

How do you look at that?

How do you approach it?

What are some of the things that you try to do to build the types of relationships that you want to have with players?

Authentic.

I think you know from, from the recruiting process to when they come, you know, on campus, to every workout, every practice to once the game starts to they're playing, they're not playing.

The good days, the bad days, the checking on him and like all those interactions, you have to have a level of authenticity to everything that that happens, whether it's a phone call, a text or a conversation.

So I think you have to be yourself.

And I've tried to, you know, on your court as a coach you get, you develop your coaching voice.

Well as an assistant coach, you develop your relationship voice.

And it has to be authentic.

If you start trying to act like someone that you're not, be a disciplinarian when you're not, or be some kind of person that you're not, it's gonna, it's gonna be exposed because they're way smarter than you think.

And I think just when it comes to that, I just try to love them and serve them and help them.

And I know they all want to be the best players they can be.

What I've tried to do is, is take advantage of opportunities to help them with things that I know when I was a player looking Back, you know, life after basketball is just as important.

So the lessons you can help share and mistakes that you made, that you can help them learn from your mistakes, you know, you can help them along their, their journey with that as well.

So, you know, just be authentic, be yourself, try to help them the best that you can, knowing that you're going to make mistakes along the way.

What's a story from your experience that you find yourself sharing more than once with a player over the course of your career?

So something that happened to you, whether as a coach or as a player, that you shared in that desire to be able to build a relationship and to be able to, to tell a kid, hey, I've been in your shoes.

This is what happened to me.

This is a decision that I made, whether good or bad.

And then being able to relate that.

To the player, another really good one, I think, I think this will come up more now.

You know, just with the, the transfer portal.

You know, I joked about my situation being pre portal.

You know, I transferred a couple times, went to three different schools.

And when I look back on why I made those decisions, you know, I can say that I, I would probably have maybe stayed instead of leaving one of those schools.

But when I talk to the guys, you know, you just try to tell them like, like, look, you're growing up and you got to make these decisions for yourself and you're going to take advice from, you know, your coaches, your family, and I'm just going to tell you, I, when I was your age, I chose to leave this school and go to this other school for a reason that I wasn't really being honest about.

I was, I kind of made up my mind and I wasn't listening to other people.

I wasn't processing what was being said to me.

I was narrow minded or whatever you want to call it.

And so I think I could see myself having that conversation a lot more frequently now because I do think these guys have to make decisions on their own and they're sometimes now with the nil and stuff, big decisions where they're going to have to go with their gut.

And so, you know, I think that's just the story I found myself and then another in recruiting.

I say this all the time, you know, right when the, it's decision day.

You know, you get to know in the past you'd be recruiting guys for two, three years and then they'd have to break your hearts.

But I used to tell them, look, we're going to see each other at some point.

You know, 10 years, 15, 20, I'll run into you in the airport and I just want you to be able to look at me and say, hey, you know, either it worked out because you came and you played for us and what a great time we had, or I want you to look at me and just appreciate at least I was a good dude that was honest with you and transparent through the whole process and we can have a relationship like that.

But I use, I just always come back to that because it's happened, you know, you, you just run into a guy and you're like, oh yeah, I remember you recruited me when you were at vmi.

And I just want that interaction to be positive.

That makes sense.

I mean, I think that that's one of the things that I learned with my son's recruitment is, you know, he had last year with being recruited primarily by Division 3 schools and you had the delay in the FAFSA and so we ended up waiting probably far longer than we would have in other years because we were just waiting to find out what all the financial packages were going to be.

And as a result of that, my son probably spent a lot more time talking to coaches, the five schools that he was really interested in, because we probably would have made a decision three, four, five, six months, maybe even earlier had we had all the financial picture.

So that's three, four, five more months of talking to those coaches and building those relationships.

And one of the things that he and I talked about was exactly what you just said, Chris, is that, you know, when it was time to make a decision, like he picked up the phone and I give him credit as an 18 year old kid, like he picked up the phone and the guys that had been recruiting him that he said, hey, you know, you're in my final five.

And they had been coming to his high school games or whatever and, you know, picked up the phone and called him and said, hey, I've made my decision and you know, unfortunately, I'm not going to attend your school.

And I think that, you know, I'm not sure how many kids at age 18, you know, are willing to, you know, are willing to do that.

And I think for me, so much of that went back to, no, you're going to see these guys, these guys invested a lot of, you know, a lot of time and energy into, you know, into coming and watching you play and, and trying to convince you to come to their school.

And so I think you owe them enough to, you know, to have that kind of conversation.

And to your point, you want to be able to see them five years from now or ten years from now and be able to shake their hand and say, hey, coach, you know, I appreciate what you did for me back in the day when you were recruiting me.

And you know, again, hopefully the decision that he made ends up being the, you know, ends up being the right one.

And so far I think it has been.

But it's just to your point that that relationship piece and be able to look someone in the eye and know that you did right by them, I think, I think means a lot on both, on both ends of the equation from both the player and the coaching perspective.

Without question.

Yeah.

Credit to him for doing that.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Tell me how the, how has the portal affected you and the recruiting process?

I mean, we all know, we all hear about it.

You know, we know that the coaches are recruiting the portal, obviously to a huge degree and it's changed the landscape of how college basketball operates.

But just for you, as one individual assistant coach, how has it changed your day to day processes as a recruiter?

Yeah, it's changed the game in a lot of ways.

You know, just being here at Rice, our situation is a little unique.

Just be with the academic requirements, you know, here at Rice.

So our pool is always going to be a little smaller than maybe some of the other schools.

You know, VMI was similar, you know, just because of the academics there.

But the portal has basically made it speed dating, I guess is the easiest way to say it.

It's, you know, as opposed to, you know, the 2, 2, 3 year or 6, 8, 10 month recruiting processes, it's now become, you know, the window getting narrowed to 30 days now.

It's just like, it's just quick question and answer.

You know, it's cookie cutter questions sometimes, but like the authenticity still has to be there.

And I think, you know, we're all finding our own new ways to make that a reality and then also just find the best way to navigate it there.

It is a lot of trial and error.

Like, you know, it's, it's a lot of the same graphics and conversations, but they're just happening faster and quicker.

And it's like a timeline of like, send this, then talk about this, then send this and then talk about that, and then decision day.

I mean, it's really that quick.

But I think it's just going to come down to, you know, demonstrating, communicating what, what we're about here at Rice.

And then if they want to be a part of it, they're going to make the decision to come and when they come, we love them.

You know, like we had been recruiting them for three years.

So I think it's, it's just different.

And so, you know, just anytime something's different, it just maybe feels off.

But we'll all figure it out.

What's your best piece of advice for a high school player or the parent of a high school player?

Because obviously it becomes more of a challenge for a high school player to get recruited when a program, when a coach can dip into the portal and you can.

And it makes sense, right?

There's a reason why everybody's recruiting the portal, because you're looking at guys who have already gone to school, proven they can do the academic work.

In many cases you're talking about guys who have had success as college basketball players as well.

And now you're talking about taking a risk on a 17, 18 old kid who have no idea.

Again, you hope you do, but it's not a sure thing.

So just tell me, what advice would you give to a high school player, a high school parent, when it comes to recruiting and the best way to approach that from, from that perspective?

Yeah, I would, I would make sure they're like, read up on all the latest things that are going on because things are happening all the time.

You know, the, the roster changes as of today, unless, you know, more lawsuits fly in and they have to change it back the, you know, 15 roster spots at most Division 1 schools.

So that'll, that'll open up more roster spots, eliminate some walk ons potentially.

And so like the whole, you know, every staff will have to navigate this.

15, 14, 13, what do we do with the body?

Like all these new decisions.

So if I'm a parent, I'm really trying to ask, you know, what do, what does my son, what does my child want to get out of this experience?

Do you want to play?

Do you want to play early?

Are you okay?

Are you going somewhere just because of the money?

It's so great.

I mean if you have that option.

Or are you going somewhere where you, you know, you like the, the coaching staff and the plan for the, your development, like what is it you're looking for?

Because if you're looking for something and you go to another school for another thing, obviously that's not going to work out to your advantage.

So I think the, the more transparency on the front end, the better.

The more honesty on the front end, the better.

And you know, there, the, the whole go somewhere play potentially put up numbers to go somewhere else.

Like, yeah, that's another avenue.

Now, that sounds weird to say it, but if you go somewhere where you're going to play versus go somewhere and you're going to sit.

You know, a lot of people say you don't get better if you're not playing.

So I think it's just figuring out what you want and.

And how you think you can get there while not falling in love with all the bells and the whistles.

If that stuff isn't important to you.

I think there's so many factors, but that's my thought on it.

Such a tricky road to navigate and to know.

First of all, you have to think about, again, whether or not as a player, do you have a realistic view of who you are and what level can play at?

And I'm sure that you run into this a ton, right, where there's players that think they can play at one level and the reality is they probably can't.

And so you have to start, I think start there.

And then, as you said, you figure it out and navigate through the process of what is it that you're looking to get out of it.

Can you find a school that's the right fit for what you're trying to accomplish?

And if you do that, generally speaking, hopefully things are going to turn out correct.

And obviously you as a college coach are trying to find the kids, whether it's out of the portal or whether it's a high school kid that is going to fit into your program with what you need, and both positionally, but also just as a human being right in the culture and all those things that go along with that.

And then as you said at Rice, obviously you have the academic piece of it, which, as you said, narrows.

Narrows your pool of guys that you can consider with the academic requirements.

Requirements.

Tell me a little bit about nil.

What's been the best?

Everybody always wants to focus on the negative.

What's been the best part of nil coming into the college game?

What have you seen as a positive when it comes to nil?

Yeah, I think it depends on the level.

You know, we were at smu, you know, that was one situation.

Rice, different situation.

When we were at Georgia State, it was pre nil.

So just putting everything together, if you're in whatever level you're at at the Division 1 level, mostly to have an opportunity to make varying levels of money and to practice financial literacy and take some money that you potentially went out and found yourself or, you know, someone came after you.

I just think there's.

There can be really Good things that come from that.

And so I think, you know, it's a, it's a positive, it is often talked about as a negative.

But I, I think the combination of the portal with nil is what sent this whole thing haywire and just the ability to play right away.

So once some things are hopefully maybe tightened up or maybe not.

But I do think that there's, there's been great opportunities provided from this game of basketball that, you know, I'll, I'll look at it through the lens of coaching.

I mean, I'm, I've been doing something that I wake up every day loving to do, providing for my family.

What's the difference?

So I think it's a really good thing.

And there's, there's positive to us for sure.

I know when I think about my experience as a college player, and if you think about your experience as a college player, it's almost unfathomable to me just again, thinking about it from my perspective as an 18 year old kid in 1988, that I would have gotten 200 or $500 or a thousand dollars or whatever amount of money.

I remember every year over Christmas we'd get like 300 bucks of meal money to be able to go and spend when the dorm and the dining halls were closed.

And we'd be like, man, if I can only spend 150, I would try to get myself a pair of shoes.

Every Christmas out of that meal money I'd be like, I get 300, I only got to spend 200 that I can buy myself a hundred dollars worth of shoes.

And remembering just how incredibly excited I was back then just for that opportunity.

And now it's really hard for me to wrap my head around just the way that the landscape has changed.

Or you think about the Chris Mills, Dwayne Casey money falling out of the envelope back in the day and what a huge scandal that was.

And you think about the amount of money that that was comparatively to the amount of money that we see floating around at some of the biggest schools and the biggest programs, whether it's basketball or football.

It's just kind of crazy to me the way that it's changed.

And so you just talked a little bit about how we don't know really what direction this is going, but if you had to kind of think about and figure out, and I know that this is just going to be a wild prediction, so I'm not going to hold you to it.

But how do you think this thing eventually settles out?

Do you, do you have any idea of what direction five years from now what this might, what this might look like?

Or maybe better yet, the better question is what would you want it to look like?

So I don't know.

You could take that question whatever direction you want to go.

Yeah, I think, I don't know.

I try to stay up on it the best that I can.

You know, whether it's asking our administrators what they're hearing, our compliance guy what they're hearing, and following all the things, you know, every day it's just a new court case and I think whatever is going to be able to be held up in court.

You know, I don't know with, you know, the new administration, you know, if, if they'll end up, you know, Congress will, you know, throw a lifeline and maybe change some things, but something, you know, that might have to be collectively bargained, that'll hold up in court, that's sustainable, that could get us something to where, like, even at the professional level you can't, like, you know, there's contracts and whether it's multi years or not, where it's not just a different team every year.

I think that was the beauty of college athletics.

You know, building a program or some level of consistency over year, a couple years at that stage and, and helping guys, you know, kind of grow as players, grow as people.

There's the educational component that nobody's really talking about through this whole thing.

But like, you know, however the nil is going to be thrown into this revenue sharing, this new thing, if that's how it's going to be if this house settlement passes.

But just make it sustainable, make it to where it's harder to move around every single year.

So there's, you know, the fan bases or the, whoever, there can be some consistency from year to year.

I think is, is something that's important and you know, that's how I would, I would hope that it could all be resolved.

Because I do think, you know, in the world this is the only thing like it.

I mean, you know, in Europe you have the club systems.

That's a different experience.

You have people from all over the world that are coming here to participate in NCAA athletics.

And now the situation, you know, from Olympic sports to football, you know, and basketball, it's, it's become this thing that might not be sustainable.

And I just wish there was a way to keep Santa Claus alive.

If that's, if you want to look at an analogy.

But it's wild, it's changing.

But you know, what do they say?

You know, you either adapt or die.

So yeah, I would think that from everybody that I've talked to, just in terms of being able to adapt to just as you said, what you, traditionally, what college athletics has been about is players coming in and developing over the course of four years and you as a coaching staff, getting to know them as people, getting to help them to grow as players and grow as people over that four year span.

And now in so many cases, you don't have those players for that full four year experience.

And so everybody's kind of having to recalibrate of what does it mean to build a relationship over the course of one year?

What does it mean to help a guy develop over the course of one year?

And how can I still have the kind of positive impact on kids that I was able to have over four years?

How can I.

It's kind of like again thinking about the, the portal and the recruiting, right?

You're condensing a process that used to be two or three years.

In this case, you're, you're reducing a, a time span that used to go over four years.

Now you might only have a kid for a year or two, but how can you, how can you make that positive impact on those players and, and make a difference in their lives?

And as you said, it's just a matter of the situation, the scenario, the environment is what it is.

And so you have to be able to adapt and make sure that you're still doing what you need to do in order to be able to have the kind of impact that you want to have as a basketball coach on those young people, both in their lives and as players as well.

And I think that's where ultimately the coaching profession, I think everybody's trying to, everybody's trying to figure out what is that, what does that look like?

Because it certainly doesn't look like if you'd have told any of us six or seven years ago that you and I would be sitting here having this conversation and you thinking about the life that, that you're living day to day if somebody would have told you that this is what it was going to look like six or seven years ago, you know, nobody obviously would have, would have believed you in any way, shape or form.

Let's get back to, let's get back to a basketball question.

What's your favorite thing to, to teach out on the floor?

What aspect of the game do you like to be out on the floor working with your guys, whether it's offense, defense, player development, something more specific within Any of those realms.

What's your favorite thing when you're out there on the floor to work with, work with your team, or work with individual players on.

Yeah, you know, I've been the last couple of years focused more on the offensive side, but I do like the.

The defensive part.

Specifically, when it comes to scouting, the scouting process, I think, you know, there's fun.

You get in the conference season playing teams for the second time.

You know, just tweaks and changes.

How are you going to guard this this time or do here?

So I like the scouting process, but then player development, too.

You know, I think that's where there's nothing like being in a gym.

You know, just one on one with a guy and, you know, working on things, and that's where you really develop a strong relationship.

So I know that just gave you three different things, but I think there's a beauty in all of them.

And the other thing about college coaching that is really cool is you have different times of the year, the calendar, and so, like, you know, the fall and the spring, heavy individual instruction.

You're living in there.

And then, you know, get into January, February, scouting, love that conference season, you know, nothing like it.

So I think that's the cool part about college coaching, particularly, I would think.

The opportunity to work one on one again, building that relationship and helping a guy to be able to get better.

And obviously you as a coach are trying to help your players get better, but you yourself as a coach are trying to get better and improve all the time.

And obviously you're talking with guys that are part of your staff and you're studying the film and doing all those kinds of things.

Where else do you like to go outside of your program to learn?

Do you have mentors?

Do you have favorite.

Whether you're looking at Euroleague stuff, do you steal stuff from the NBA, other college programs?

Do you have a favorite place you like to go to, kind of learn the game, game, talk about X's and O's and improve your craft?

Yeah, I try to just maximize it all.

I've.

I've tried to.

One, I've tried to get back in shape.

So every morning I try to work out and then try to stack a little bit.

So, like, you know, every time I'm, you know, working out, try to read, watch, you know, whether it's slapping glass or whatever, podcasts, but YouTube and Just Diving into different things now that, you know, as you're preparing for the year, you know who you're playing.

So, like, you know, all right, they're going to trap from the baseline.

How are we attacking that?

You know, we're going to see a lot of hedging.

What are our hedging solutions?

All right, switching last year bothered us.

All right, switching package.

So all year you're just trying to figure out, you know, and then before you know it, you know, you have this.

You know, whether it was a summer project where you studied a certain program, that that happens, too.

But I do think that technology makes it to where the answer to your question is everything like YouTube, Twitter, podcasts, you know, being in Houston, I got an hour commute almost every day.

So, I mean, if I don't take advantage of that hour, I'd be crazy.

So definitely a lot of podcasts there.

So that's the cool part about being a coach in this era, too.

You know, technology is awesome.

Yeah, absolutely.

Much easier than going to meet somebody for a clandestine exchange of VHS tapes, you know, back.

Back in the day.

Thank goodness those.

Thank goodness that era.

That era is behind us.

How do you think about leadership in a program and developing leaders on your team?

What's the process for you when you think about helping a kid to become a better leader?

I mean, when I hear leadership, I just think servant leadership.

Leader, servant leadership and transformational leadership, those are the two types that come to my mind.

So whether that's myself trying to be a servant leader in our program as a coach, or that's helping our point guard, hey, you know, I know you're not, you know, maybe playing the way you want to be playing, shooting the ball the way you want.

Lean into others, get each other, get other guys going, serve your teammates.

You know, when I think leadership, I think of serving and then transformational kind of back what I was talking, you know, earlier about, it's just using this.

This game of basketball, you know, as a coach, it's just the game's going to end, you know, whether it's for a coach or for a player.

So even LeBron James, his career is coming, you know, to an end pretty soon.

So what are you going to have to show for it?

And so, you know, transforming lives along the way is something that I always.

And back to that word perspective.

Like, just always as a coach, trying to have perspective.

Win, lose, whatever.

Like, these are young men.

These are their.

That, you know, they.

They're.

They're taking classes.

They have families back home.

Like, there's so much going on, and sometimes it's easy to get in our silo of just, you know, the competitiveness of Winning and losing, but just being transformational, being a servant and then having a perspective about it, you know, whether it's players or coaches.

That's.

Well said.

All right, final two, part question, Chris, Part one, when you look ahead over the next year or two, what do you see as being your biggest challenge?

And then part two, when you think about what you get to do every day, what brings you the most joy?

So your biggest challenge and then your biggest joy.

Yeah, I mean, that's.

I like the combo of that and I'll put my answer together.

So my biggest joy is when I come home and I see my daughter.

She's nine, fourth grade.

I mean, just really starting to develop a personality.

And so her and my, and my wife, best, best time of the day seeing them.

But then also the, the biggest challenge, I just think nowadays with, in this profession, no matter what level it's consuming.

And so I think, you know, I, I used to say maybe every once in a while, I still say it, but like work life balance.

Like my wife is in, she works from home.

And in the business world, you know, people say that work life balance.

But then I heard somebody maybe, I don't know, a couple months ago now say, use the word now.

I just drew a blank.

It's.

It's not.

There's no true balance that you're going to find.

It's something that you're just going to have to manage.

So the hardest thing for me is the time spent away from family and feeling like I'm not maybe as present at home or as good of a father as I could be or whatever.

And so the balance is never going to exist in this profession.

And so knowing this is just something that I'm going to have to manage.

And, and what I've tried to do is just make sure it's quality time when I am home, step away from the phone when I can, and really try to, you know, whether it's work late at night, work early in the morning to maximize the time, walking my daughter to school, being, just being around, you know, when Coach Lanier does, you know, because he is so great with, with our time, taking advantage of that.

And so when I heard it framed, not like a balance, but more like something that you're just going to have to manage, it just really hit home.

And, and that's something that I'm trying to work on.

Yeah, that's really well said.

And I think it's something that every coach thinks about and tries to figure out.

And it's not easy, right because we love basketball, we love what we do, we're all competitive.

And yet at the same time, the, the most important team we have is, is our team at home.

And I think ultimately that's something that everybody has to, has to reckon with, has to figure out what that, what that is and how you go about doing it.

And obviously, as we talked about earlier, when you have a supportive spouse, there's nothing that can top that in terms of allowing you to have the type of, you know, the type of career that you want to have.

If you have somebody that, that understands and that's supportive and, and has your back when you're at home, there, there's nothing better than that.

There's, there's no question.

Before we wrap up, Chris, I want to give you a chance to share.

How can people connect with you, Find out more about what you're doing, learn more about the program at Rice, whether you want to share, email, social media, website, whatever you feel comfortable with.

And then after you do that, I'll jump back in and wrap things up.

Yeah, email address Easy, I guess.

C and then my last name Kreider K R E I D E R at Rice Edu and then social media at Coach Kreider K R E I D E R Anytime you're in Houston, want to come to a practice, a game, stop by Rice, stop by and see us.

Chris cannot thank you enough for taking the time out of your schedule tonight to join us.

Really appreciate it and to everyone out there, thanks for listening and we will catch you on our next episode.

Thanks.

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