Sarah Perugia (she/her): Hello

and

welcome

to

the

whole

truth

leadership

stories

with

Sarah

Perugia,

I'm

delighted

to

say

that

in

every

episode

of

this

podcast,

I'll

be

speaking

to a

values

led

leader

who

will

share

their

vision,

their

mission,

their

purpose,

and,

of

course,

their

unique

leadership

story.

I'm

Sarah,

I'm

your

host.

I'm a

whole

person,

leadership

transformation

specialist,

executive

leadership

master

coach

and

keynote

speaker,

and

I'm

on a

mission.

My

mission

is to

help

leaders

and

teams

operate

at

their

best,

fulfill

their

potential

and

enjoy

the

journey

too.

I've

spent

20

years

helping

organizations

all

over

the

world,

helping

them

to

develop

their

top

talent

and

build

inclusive,

connected,

collaborative,

gender

equal

teams.

What

I've

noticed

over

the

last

two

decades

of

doing

this

amazing

job

is

how

much

we

benefit

from

hearing

other

people's

stories.

When

I

host

events,

I

often

hear

the

feedback

that

the

audience

listening

to

leaders,

share

their

personal

stories

share

their

mission

and

their

vision,

their

passions,

but

also

their

vulnerability

and

their

challenges,

has

been

really

inspiring

and

energizing

and

educational

and

really

help

those

people

in

the

audience

find

their

vision,

their

mission,

their

passion,

and

understand

that

they're

not

alone

in

their

challenges.

So

that's

what

we're

hoping

to do

in

this

podcast,

to

share

that

energy

and

that

inspiration.

So if

you're

a

leader

or an

aspiring

leader,

and

you're

in

search

of

your

career

vision,

perhaps

you're

wondering

what

your

mission

is.

Perhaps

you're

looking

to

enhance

performance

or

find

your

unique

voice,

or

perhaps

uncover

the

joy

in

your

career

journey.

This

podcast

is

for

you.

I am

so

happy

and

delighted

to be

welcoming

Andrea

bright

to

the

podcast

today.

Andrea

is

such

an

accomplished

leader.

She

has

worked

all

over

the

world

in

all

kinds

of

different

organizations

and

has

led

hugely

impressive

business

transformations.

She's

held

roles

such

as

CEO

coo

Director

of

Professional

Services

and

Andrea

is a

powerful

advocate

of

women

in

tech.

She's

a

passionate

believer

in

supporting

other

women

on

their

journeys,

helping

them

along

the

way,

and

being

a

strong

voice

and a

strong

ally

as we

hopefully

move

ourselves

further

towards

gender

equality

in

tech.

Andrea,

welcome.

It's

lovely

to be

on

here.

Sarah

and

yeah,

it's

always

good

to

talk

about

this

stuff

as

well

and

bring

forward

some

of

the

challenges.

So

yeah,

for

me, I

am a

woman

in

tech,

and I

have

been

for

quite

some

time.

I

mean,

I

actually,

I

started

as an

accountant

many,

many

moons

ago,

and

did

finance,

and I

was

offered

a

project

back

in

the

day,

back

in my

early

20s,

an IT

project

to

essentially,

as we

called

it,

then

computerized

the

finance

department,

right?

I

mean,

nobody

calls

it

that

anymore,

do

they?

So

ultimately,

I

went

and

did

the

project.

It

took

about

a

year

and a

half

to

do,

and

then

it

came

to

coming

back

to my

sort

of

original

desk,

and I

didn't

want

to do

it,

so I

broke

out

into

tech

at

that

point.

So

that's

how I

got

into

the

role.

But

it's

funny

how

it

turned

from

a

project,

right?

I

think

that

that's

quite

one

of

the

key

things

as a

woman

as

well.

So it

wasn't

about

my,

you

know,

I had

a

development

background

or

anything,

or,

you

know,

it

was

more

about,

perhaps

my

organ

organizational

skills

and

how,

you

know,

I

could

be

very

structured

possibly.

But

there

was a

lot

of

years

ago

now.

So,

you

know,

moving

forward,

I've

worked

through

lots

of

roles

in

the

IT

profession,

sort

of

consulting

type

roles.

I

have

dabbled

into

the

more

technical

stuff,

and

really

isn't

me.

It's

not

my

bag

early

on.

But

one

thing

you'll

find

out

about

me is

I

jump

in to

a lot

of

things

feet

first.

And

the

idea

is

you

fail

fast

and

move

on

and

get

on

with

something

else

that

you

absolutely

do

enjoy.

And

that's

kind

of

how

I've

led

my

life

up to

now,

actually,

to be

perfectly

honest.

So

yeah,

so

all

of

those

sort

of

roles

coming

through,

but I

do

have

a

real

interest

in

governance

controls,

how

things

are

structured,

how

you

get

the

best

results

these

days.

It's

also

about

how

you

get

the

fastest

results,

right?

I

mean.

I

know

it

always

has

been

that,

but

that's

that's

definitely

more

what

drives

today.

And

so

I've

worked

through

those,

those

delivery

roles,

and

then

I got

into

my

management

experience,

and

have

moved

through

sort

of

middle

to

senior

management.

So I

sort

of

see

myself

coming

from

those

early

days

that

I've

just

explained

to

being

the

CEO

for a

business,

a

tech

business,

which

happens

to be

in

the

Microsoft

space.

You

know,

obviously

texts

in a

lot

of

different

spaces,

but

that's

where

I

happen

to

be,

and

I've

been

within

that

space

for,

gosh,

over

20

years

now.

It's

quite

frightening.

So

I've

seen

a lot

of

change,

not

just

in

the

industry,

but

in

how

we

resource

in

the

industry,

and

that's

been

really

interesting

for

me.

And,

you

know,

really,

I

think

that's

the

bit

that

people

struggle

to

keep

up

with

as

well.

I

know

I do.

I

struggle

to

keep

up

the

technology,

but I

have

a

complete

base

of of

how I

attack

these

things.

So I

think

I'm

quite

lucky

to

have

been

through

the

experiences

been

through

but,

but,

yeah,

that's

where

I

started,

and

that's

where

I am

now.

Amazing,

Sarah Perugia (she/her): amazing.

Thank

you.

That's

really

interesting

to

hear.

And

the

thing

that

kind

of

particularly

popped

out

to

me,

Andrea,

as

you

were

talking,

was

jump

in

feet

first,

fail

fast.

I

absolutely

love

that.

Tell

me

more

about

how

that

served

you.

Okay,

yeah.

I

mean,

it's

a

scary

thing

to do

sometimes,

and

sometimes

you

have

to be

pushed

right,

let's

be

honest.

And,

and

I've

had

some

great

people

behind

me

over

the

years

that

have

done

the

shove

right.

They

know,

they

know

that

you

want

to do

it,

yeah.

And

I've

just

been

really,

really

lucky

to

have

a few

of

those

over

my

career.

So

look,

I

think

everything

you

do

for

the

first

time

is

going

to be

tough.

It's

going

to be

difficult.

I

mean,

everybody's

read

it in

project

management,

which

is

actually

my

trade

and

profession,

I

guess,

governance

and

controls.

Everybody

says

your

first

project

is

going

to

fail,

right?

That's

just,

it's

written

down.

It's

in

the

books.

That's,

that's

how

it

goes.

And

it's

all

the

things

you

have

to do

to

prevent

that

from

from

happening.

And

actually,

I

think

whenever

I

think

of a

thing

to

jump

in

feet

first.

Now

that's

where

my

mind

goes,

right?

It

absolutely

goes

there.

And I

guess

that's

my

training

or

something,

I

don't

know,

but I

really,

really

encourage

people,

you

know,

to

try

things

you

absolutely

can't

sit

back

and

regret

it

later.

Yes,

you

might

need

to

ask

for

help,

you

know,

reach

out,

or do

a

course

correct

or a

bit

of an

adjustment,

and

I've

certainly

done

a lot

of

those

over

the

years.

And

you

know,

I

just

think

it's,

it's

seen

me go

between

my

roles,

particularly

in my

sort

of

latter

part

of my

career,

actually,

that's

that's

sort

of

seen

me

move

from

that

middle

management

to

senior

and

then

into

the C

suite.

And

let's

face

it,

you

have

got

to be

in

it.

I'm

not

bigger

myself

up

here,

but

you've

got

to be

quite

brave

to

jump

into

that.

Because

that.

Because

myself,

I'm

usually,

usually,

I say

not

always.

At

the

moment,

I'm

not.

There's

two

of us

women

at

that

level,

but

you

know,

quite

often

you're

the

only

one,

right?

And I

think

that's

one

of

the

things

that

you

know.

It

makes

you

jump

in

feet

first.

And

it's

not

always

in

our

nature

as

women

to do

that,

right?

I'm

aware

of

it.

It

almost

does

break

a lot

of

what's

been

published

relatively

recently,

you

know,

forms

of

various

publications

have

said

that

women

simply

won't

apply

for a

role

if

they

don't

qualify

for

100%

of

what's

listed

in

the

job

itself,

whereas

men

will

apply

for

it if

they

only

really

have

60%

of

the

skills,

right,

right?

So

unless,

unless

you're

prepared

to

jump

in

and

say,

I can

do

this,

or

I've

got

these

brilliant

attributes

over

and

above,

you

know,

I've

got

some

Slim

areas

that

I've

not

covered

here,

here

and

here.

As a

woman,

you

naturally

want

to

say

it,

let's

face

it,

we

do.

These

are

the

things

I'm

deficient

in.

But,

you

know,

people

will

take

a

flyer

as

well

on

you.

It's

one

of

those

things

to

really,

you

know,

keep,

keep

the

whole

council

and

going.

It's

Sarah Perugia (she/her): really

fascinating,

isn't

it?

So as

a

woman

in

leadership

coach,

I see

the

same

thing.

I see

that

perfectionism

so

much.

And

actually,

you

know,

there's

an

expression

in

leadership

coaching,

what

got

me

here

won't

get

me

there.

And

so

that

perfectionism

often

gets

women

to a

certain

level,

and

they're

really

successful,

and

they're

brilliant

at

what

they

do,

technically,

really,

really

strong.

And

at

some

point,

I

think

we

need

that

bravery,

that

that

openness

to

failure.

So if

there

is a

woman

listening

to

you

Andrea

and

thinking

about

this

challenge,

what

advice

would

you

give

her?

How

would

you

say

she

could

build

up

that

courage

to

leap

more

and

more

quickly?

Yeah,

do

you

know

what

fight

find

allies,

right?

I

think

this

is a

really

key

thing.

In my

early

career,

I had

a

brilliant

lady

that

that

came

out

of

one

of

the

big

four

into

a

business

that

I was

in

which

was

in.

And

she

really

was

an

inspiration

to

me,

and

that's

followed,

right?

I've

tried

to be

that

for

other

people.

So I

say

reach

out

and

build

some

alliances.

Question

with

somebody

like

that.

What's

going

to

happen

here?

What's,

what

is

the

absolute

worst

that's

going

to

happen

here?

Right?

I

think

that

that's

one

of

the

key

things.

It's

about

your

core

values

and

how

you

choose

to

react

to

them.

And

it

really

is

that

mindset

shift,

reach

out,

find

the

alliances,

get

get

some

people

on

side

and

put

you,

put

yourself

out

there,

right?

Apply

for

that

role

that's

got

something

in it

that

you

know

ultimately

you're

a bit

uncomfortable

about,

and

have

those

people

that

you've

got

as

alliances,

give

you a

shot,

right?

I

mean,

I

love

doing

that

with

with

particularly

women

in

tech,

because

that's

my

background.

I

mean,

I'd

struggled

to do

it in

an

industry

I

didn't

know,

but

I'd

still

encourage

a

woman

in an

industry

that

I

didn't

know

to

give

it a

go,

right?

And

it's

funny

how

many

alliances

you

can

build

and

networks

you

can

tip

into

that

you

may

not

know

are

out

there,

right?

And I

think

LinkedIn

is a

fantastic

source

of

finding

those

and

on

LinkedIn,

right,

there

was

absolutely

nothing

to be

afraid

about,

to

reach

out,

let's

face

it,

right?

That's

the

whole

point

of

it,

and

building

and

getting

involved

in

those

groups.

And I

think,

you

know,

the

minute

you

take

one

of

those

leaps,

you'll

be

completely

out

of

your

comfort

zone.

I

mean,

I

feel

it

quite

frequently.

Yeah,

kind

of

breathe

it

through,

right?

Just

Yeah,

time.

And

do

not

be

afraid

to

say

hey,

that

that

doesn't

make

sense.

Explain

that

bit

to me

again.

Or,

you

know

why?

Why

is a

woman,

wouldn't

I

speak

up

like

you

see a

male

dimming,

questioning

things,

right?

So

always

question

as

well.

And

don't

be if

you,

if

you

make

it to

an

interview

for

something

that

makes

you

feel

a

little

uncomfortable,

right?

It's

going

to be

quite

hard

not

to

show

some

of

that,

because

that's

just

our

nature,

but

question

it,

right?

Put

the

pressure

back

on

the

other

side,

right?

I

mean,

I, I

often

fall

into

that

with

people

questioning

me,

and

then

you

realize

what's

going

on.

You're

like,

that's

brilliant.

I'm

really

happy

that

people

are

doing

that

because

we're

not,

we're

not

always

right,

although

we

have,

you

know,

an

experience

in

the

the

industry

that

we're

in.

So

just,

just

question