1 00:00:05,500 --> 00:00:09,025 Hello everybody and welcome to Crowd Church. My name is Sharon and I'm hosting 2 00:00:09,025 --> 00:00:12,550 tonight alongside the fabulous Mike. Hi Mike. 3 00:00:13,099 --> 00:00:17,940 Hi Sharon, uh, good to be here. Um, it's, um, yeah, real privilege, looking 4 00:00:17,940 --> 00:00:22,780 forward to it. Um, shall I introduce Dave? 5 00:00:22,839 --> 00:00:23,149 Yes. 6 00:00:23,809 --> 00:00:28,169 Um, so we have Dave Connolly. You've practiced that. We have Dave Connolly, um, 7 00:00:28,169 --> 00:00:32,530 speaking to us today I've known Dave for about 25 years, which is a long, long 8 00:00:32,530 --> 00:00:36,890 time. Dave, how are you? 9 00:00:37,079 --> 00:00:38,799 I'm really good, thanks, Mike. I'm really looking forward to sitting here this 10 00:00:38,799 --> 00:00:40,520 evening. 11 00:00:40,859 --> 00:00:42,530 Fantastic. And can you tell us, what is it that you're going to be speaking on 12 00:00:42,530 --> 00:00:44,200 today? 13 00:00:44,609 --> 00:00:47,344 Well, we're doing the series Jesus the Revolutionary. I can't say that word, by 14 00:00:47,344 --> 00:00:50,079 the way. 15 00:00:50,179 --> 00:00:51,149 You did it really well. 16 00:00:51,549 --> 00:00:56,134 I know, I've been practicing all week, been anxious. And I'm going to speak on 17 00:00:56,134 --> 00:01:00,719 probably one of my best favorite verses. I am in Matthew 11 where it says, 'Come 18 00:01:00,719 --> 00:01:05,305 to me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.' It's 19 00:01:05,305 --> 00:01:09,890 just amazing. 20 00:01:09,939 --> 00:01:13,975 Yeah, we look forward to getting into that. So again, welcome if you're one of 21 00:01:13,975 --> 00:01:18,012 our regular members, whether you're part of the community already. Welcome if 22 00:01:18,012 --> 00:01:22,048 you're new. If you are new, just so you know how this works, we are an online 23 00:01:22,048 --> 00:01:26,084 church And as we've just said, Dave will be speaking to us on this passage. And 24 00:01:26,084 --> 00:01:30,120 then unlike a church where you go to in person, we actually get to discuss it 25 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:34,155 together. So after the talk, me and Mike are gonna chat together with our 26 00:01:34,155 --> 00:01:38,191 thoughts, but we also want you to join in, be part of the conversation. So as 27 00:01:38,191 --> 00:01:42,227 Dave's talking, as any of us are talking, put your thoughts and comments in the 28 00:01:42,227 --> 00:01:46,263 comments and we will try our best to pick up on them. Um, yeah, so Over to you, 29 00:01:46,263 --> 00:01:50,299 Dave. 30 00:01:52,459 --> 00:01:58,079 Wonderful. It's such a privilege to be able to come and just share, a crowd, and 31 00:01:58,079 --> 00:02:03,699 then, as the folks say, just to hear from you guys what God is saying to you and 32 00:02:03,699 --> 00:02:09,318 any questions that you have. And as I said, this evening, the main verse is 33 00:02:09,318 --> 00:02:14,938 taken from Matthew's Gospel. Matthew 11:28. And it says, 'Come to me'—this is 34 00:02:14,938 --> 00:02:20,557 Jesus talking—'all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.' 35 00:02:20,557 --> 00:02:26,177 Um, you know, if you would just take a moment to let those words just sink in, 36 00:02:26,177 --> 00:02:31,797 they, you know, if you're—especially if you're feeling exhausted and weary and, 37 00:02:31,797 --> 00:02:37,416 you know, come to an end of yourself, You know, these words could totally— not 38 00:02:37,416 --> 00:02:43,036 my words, these words, this Scripture— could totally change your life this 39 00:02:43,036 --> 00:02:48,655 evening, or whenever you're watching this. We live in a generation, we live in a 40 00:02:48,655 --> 00:02:54,275 time where people are just exhausted. It's like we live in a culture of hustle, 41 00:02:54,275 --> 00:02:59,895 and that seems to be a buzzword with everybody I'm talking to. Everything's a 42 00:02:59,895 --> 00:03:05,514 hustle. I don't really understand what it means. Or busyness or productivity, 43 00:03:05,514 --> 00:03:11,134 achievements, um, constant pressure, whether it be at work or at home. And you 44 00:03:11,134 --> 00:03:16,753 know, the result for some folks, maybe you, is that you're suffering from 45 00:03:16,753 --> 00:03:22,373 burnout. And you know, for some people, they use burnout almost as a badge of 46 00:03:22,373 --> 00:03:27,992 honor. And hopefully this evening we can actually address that And it's a need 47 00:03:27,992 --> 00:03:33,612 that's been created in you. It's like a wound, you know, being autistic is a 48 00:03:33,612 --> 00:03:39,232 wound. It's not a positive thing. And hopefully we'll just be able to see some 49 00:03:39,232 --> 00:03:44,851 hope come into our lives and into our minds and invite the Holy Spirit to come 50 00:03:44,851 --> 00:03:50,471 and speak to us. You know, this passage, it's very clear. It's an opposite 51 00:03:50,471 --> 00:03:56,090 message to what we hear in what I would call the world. And the world is 52 00:03:56,090 --> 00:04:01,710 relentless, you know, guys, on saying work harder, try harder, push further, 53 00:04:01,710 --> 00:04:07,330 don't slow down, keep improving yourself. As if you've been around any period of 54 00:04:07,330 --> 00:04:12,949 time, self-improvement is very limited, you know. It's when God is at work in 55 00:04:12,949 --> 00:04:18,569 us, and we call that transformation, that real change comes. Sadly, some of 56 00:04:18,569 --> 00:04:24,188 these expectations have crept into church, and you may be aware of them if 57 00:04:24,188 --> 00:04:29,808 you've been around church any period of time. There's far too many Christians 58 00:04:29,808 --> 00:04:35,427 going about their day and they're actually exhausted, emotionally drained, 59 00:04:35,427 --> 00:04:41,047 mentally overwhelmed. They're trying to serve God whilst running on empty. Now, 60 00:04:41,047 --> 00:04:46,667 coming here this evening, um, I had to call in the petrol station because, um, 61 00:04:46,667 --> 00:04:52,286 yesterday morning, um, the fuel light was on and I realized it's been on for a 62 00:04:52,286 --> 00:04:57,906 couple of days. So this evening as I was driving, I think, am I going to get 63 00:04:57,906 --> 00:05:03,525 here or I'm going to break down on the motorway? Am I going to have to ring Matt 64 00:05:03,525 --> 00:05:09,145 to come and get me, rescue me? But you know, again, again, yeah. But it's like 65 00:05:09,145 --> 00:05:14,765 we almost get used to running on empty and we're not designed to run on empty. 66 00:05:14,765 --> 00:05:20,384 We don't need to run on empty because God wants to fill us, and not just fill 67 00:05:20,384 --> 00:05:26,004 us, but fill us to overflowing so others receive the goodness of what he's doing 68 00:05:26,004 --> 00:05:31,623 in our lives. We learn to stay busy. Now sometimes I say, 'Well, I'm busy for 69 00:05:31,623 --> 00:05:37,243 God.' And I would say to you, you might want to just check that out because 70 00:05:37,243 --> 00:05:42,862 sometimes when we think we're busy for God, we're just busy about stuff. And 71 00:05:42,862 --> 00:05:48,482 we've put God down somewhere, and it's a bit like saying, 'Holy Spirit, you can 72 00:05:48,482 --> 00:05:54,102 have today off. I've got this covered.' We need to stay fresh and we need to 73 00:05:54,102 --> 00:05:59,721 stay focused. We need to know why we do what we do. And this verse where it 74 00:05:59,721 --> 00:06:05,341 says, 'Come to me,' that is an invitation. And who's it to? It's an invitation 75 00:06:05,341 --> 00:06:10,960 to all. Come to who? Come to Jesus. Don't come to a method. Don't come to— and 76 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:16,580 we're not even saying come to church. We're saying, 'Come to Jesus.' He's the 77 00:06:16,580 --> 00:06:22,200 one you need to come to and sit at His feet and receive from Him. And He goes on 78 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:27,819 to say, 'And I will— He will give you rest.' And, you know, you can count on His 79 00:06:27,819 --> 00:06:33,439 word because He always honors His word. You know, there's a couple of things 80 00:06:33,439 --> 00:06:39,058 Jesus and God can't do. They can't lie and they can't fail. There's a clear 81 00:06:39,058 --> 00:06:44,678 promise. You come, That invitation to come requires a movement. It requires us 82 00:06:44,678 --> 00:06:50,298 to move from where we are to where he is in our thinking, in our heart, in our 83 00:06:50,298 --> 00:06:55,917 minds, whatever terminology you use. There needs to be a move or a surrender. I 84 00:06:55,917 --> 00:07:01,537 like to say I have to align myself to God and what God is saying. That's, that's 85 00:07:01,537 --> 00:07:07,156 for me, that's the key thing. I just want to emphasize, when he says come, he's 86 00:07:07,156 --> 00:07:12,776 not saying come and join a club or come and join this group or come in. He's 87 00:07:12,776 --> 00:07:18,395 saying 'Come.' We're invited into relationship, right into the presence of God. 88 00:07:18,395 --> 00:07:24,015 And that's the difference about knowing somebody and knowing about somebody. He 89 00:07:24,015 --> 00:07:29,635 doesn't want you just to be a good person. He wants you to find a rest. He 90 00:07:29,635 --> 00:07:35,254 doesn't want you to do anything for Him. Okay, hear that. He wants to do 91 00:07:35,254 --> 00:07:40,874 something in you that what you live after that just speaks of His goodness. Our 92 00:07:40,874 --> 00:07:46,493 lives become a testimony, a living story of God's goodness. You know, and you 93 00:07:46,493 --> 00:07:52,113 might be thinking, 'Oh, that's all good, you know, for Jesus, perfect, you know, 94 00:07:52,113 --> 00:07:57,733 Son of God, da da da, you know, or it's okay for you because you're this or 95 00:07:57,733 --> 00:08:03,352 you're that.' Let me just tell you, Jesus himself who spoke these words, he 96 00:08:03,352 --> 00:08:08,972 knew. Jesus knew what it was to face rejection. As we read through those gospel 97 00:08:08,972 --> 00:08:14,591 stories, Jesus They rejected him with a passion. They criticized him with a 98 00:08:14,591 --> 00:08:20,211 passion. You know, they could celebrate him and then criticize him in the same 99 00:08:20,211 --> 00:08:25,830 breath. He lived under constant scrutiny. He was rejected by whole cities. 100 00:08:25,830 --> 00:08:31,450 Religious leaders, Luther, pulled their notes together to accuse him and to trap 101 00:08:31,450 --> 00:08:37,070 him. Jesus knew. I love this, you know, that He knew what it was to be tired. He 102 00:08:37,070 --> 00:08:42,689 knew what it was to be hungry. He knew what it was to be busy. Because we hear 103 00:08:42,689 --> 00:08:48,309 that He comes aside. I love the fact that He knew what it was to be hungry. The 104 00:08:48,309 --> 00:08:53,928 amount of food that is in the New Testament that we read about. And it's just to 105 00:08:53,928 --> 00:08:59,548 show His humanity. So He knows what He's talking about. We see Jesus comes 106 00:08:59,548 --> 00:09:05,168 aside. Why? To sleep. Well, partly, but also to be in the presence of God. When 107 00:09:05,168 --> 00:09:10,787 we get busy and overwhelmed, where do we go? And you know, I just want to say, 108 00:09:10,787 --> 00:09:16,407 many of us go to the wrong places when we need just to come aside and seek His 109 00:09:16,407 --> 00:09:22,026 face. The story goes on and it talks about being wary. And I think we could 110 00:09:22,026 --> 00:09:27,646 probably have 20 different versions of what wary means, but let me tell you what 111 00:09:27,646 --> 00:09:33,265 Jesus meant. When Jesus uses the word 'wary,' he means more than being tired. 112 00:09:33,265 --> 00:09:38,885 You know, I was with some guys a few weeks ago, and they were talking about how 113 00:09:38,885 --> 00:09:44,505 tired they were. And I'm like, 'I don't understand what you're saying.' And 114 00:09:44,505 --> 00:09:50,124 they're saying, 'We're tired. We're tired with work.' And I'm like, 'Yeah, and 115 00:09:50,124 --> 00:09:55,744 you're supposed to be.' You know, in 21st century living, it's like everything's 116 00:09:55,744 --> 00:10:01,363 got to be a buzz. You know, but when you work hard and you give yourself, it's 117 00:10:01,363 --> 00:10:06,983 natural that you are tired. You are supposed to be. I don't know if that makes 118 00:10:06,983 --> 00:10:12,603 sense, you know. I mean, people think that they have to enjoy everything that is 119 00:10:12,603 --> 00:10:18,222 going on in their life. It's like, it is my right to be happy. Somebody said 120 00:10:18,222 --> 00:10:23,842 this to me yesterday, and I'm like, where do you get that from? Because you 121 00:10:23,842 --> 00:10:29,461 won't find that in the Bible. That's your flesh that's telling you you have the 122 00:10:29,461 --> 00:10:35,081 right. It's not about our rights, it's about our obedience and our 123 00:10:35,081 --> 00:10:40,701 responsibility. When Jesus talks about the word weary, he's speaking about more 124 00:10:40,701 --> 00:10:46,320 than being tired. He's speaking about— let me give you a list of things— deep 125 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:51,940 exhaustion. Um, I don't know if this is even a real phrase, but it's one I used 126 00:10:51,940 --> 00:10:57,559 recently. Soul fatigue, you know. And I know what it is like to be fatigued. You 127 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:03,179 know, and people say, 'Well, you're just a bit fatigued,' and they write it off. 128 00:11:03,179 --> 00:11:08,798 And I'm thinking, 'Only you don't know. Oh, you've obviously never been 129 00:11:08,798 --> 00:11:14,418 fatigued.' Um, emotional depletion, you know, it's just like somebody's come 130 00:11:14,418 --> 00:11:20,038 along to your petrol tank. Like, I've just filled up, as I've said. You come 131 00:11:20,038 --> 00:11:25,657 along and it's like somebody put a screwdriver into the tank. It will drain 132 00:11:25,657 --> 00:11:31,277 rapidly. Did I fill it up? Yes, I did, but I've got a hole in it and I need to 133 00:11:31,277 --> 00:11:36,896 pay attention to that damage. It's about carrying burdens, and life can be 134 00:11:36,896 --> 00:11:42,516 tough. You can be doing all the right things as a Christian with all the right 135 00:11:42,516 --> 00:11:48,136 people and life be challenging. But you know, we've raised so many people in 136 00:11:48,136 --> 00:11:53,755 church to do the Star Trek thing. Every time a difficulty comes along, it's 137 00:11:53,755 --> 00:11:59,375 like, 'God, get me out of this.' That's why we have so many Christians who are 138 00:11:59,375 --> 00:12:04,994 superficial. There's no real depth because every time God is trying to 139 00:12:04,994 --> 00:12:10,614 strengthen them, and establish them in something. They're asking for an exit 140 00:12:10,614 --> 00:12:16,233 rather than standing and taking their ground and seeing God come in power and in 141 00:12:16,233 --> 00:12:21,853 might. And you know, I'm not— I'm just saying, you know, um, if you read 142 00:12:21,853 --> 00:12:27,473 Scripture, try reading the book of Acts, my friends. I tell you, you know, the 143 00:12:27,473 --> 00:12:33,092 church isn't doing a whole lot until persecution comes. Then it scatters, and 144 00:12:33,092 --> 00:12:38,712 the church grows phenomenally. It doesn't happen in times of, um, you know, 145 00:12:38,712 --> 00:12:44,331 where everything is good. And, um, I just— I'm talking about seasons here, I'm 146 00:12:44,331 --> 00:12:49,951 not talking about a lifetime where, you know, um, we're on, you know, our backs 147 00:12:49,951 --> 00:12:55,571 against the wall, as it were. Um, so, you know, this evening, you know, many of 148 00:12:55,571 --> 00:13:01,190 you might be in that place where you're feeling weary, tired, worn out, and It's 149 00:13:01,190 --> 00:13:06,810 not necessarily because you've done anything wrong. It's just life. It is just a 150 00:13:06,810 --> 00:13:12,429 part of life, you know. But there's also all these voices talking to us, and 151 00:13:12,429 --> 00:13:18,049 they're saying, well, the answer to this is more success, you know, achieve 152 00:13:18,049 --> 00:13:23,668 more, more productivity, more this, more that. And God's saying it's not. It's a 153 00:13:23,668 --> 00:13:29,288 case of rest, resting in him. It's not about our performance, not about trying 154 00:13:29,288 --> 00:13:34,908 to appear to be more spiritual, or trying to keep everybody happy, or trying to 155 00:13:34,908 --> 00:13:40,527 earn— listen to this— it's not about trying to earn what Jesus has already 156 00:13:40,527 --> 00:13:46,147 freely given to each of us. That's called his grace. He says, 'Come to me.' 157 00:13:46,147 --> 00:13:51,766 Requires movement. Come to him. This story goes on, and, um, I'm just going to 158 00:13:51,766 --> 00:13:57,386 try and draw this into a bit of a close here, but this is a really important 159 00:13:57,386 --> 00:14:03,006 piece. He says, take my yoke upon you. Take my yoke upon you. Don't just look at 160 00:14:03,006 --> 00:14:08,625 it and know what it's for. Take it upon you and learn from me. It's very hard to 161 00:14:08,625 --> 00:14:14,245 learn if you spend your life mourning and complaining. Take my yoke upon you and 162 00:14:14,245 --> 00:14:19,864 learn from me. In the first century church, in that first century culture, a 163 00:14:19,864 --> 00:14:25,484 yoke was a wooden farming, um, implement. And the one I'm thinking of is one 164 00:14:25,484 --> 00:14:31,104 that is created for two oxen, um, and a well-made yoke Um, because you wouldn't 165 00:14:31,104 --> 00:14:36,723 want to put rubbish on your ox because you damage them, you know, they're of 166 00:14:36,723 --> 00:14:42,343 value to you. Um, they would be made specifically and for a purpose and for two 167 00:14:42,343 --> 00:14:47,962 oxen, and one of them would be a bigger, older, mature ox. And then they put in— 168 00:14:47,962 --> 00:14:53,582 I don't know what a young ox is called— anyway, you get a young one and you put 169 00:14:53,582 --> 00:14:59,201 it in and You know, it's like, that sounds like discipleship. Bingo! Oh, can you 170 00:14:59,201 --> 00:15:04,821 say bingo on Sunday? That's right, you've got it. That's what it is. It's 171 00:15:04,821 --> 00:15:10,441 walking, you're connected. And what happens, you know, that young ox comes in 172 00:15:10,441 --> 00:15:16,060 and thinks he knows everything. You know, he's saying, you're looking a bit old, 173 00:15:16,060 --> 00:15:21,680 you're looking a bit pasty, you know. And all that happens is it's not long 174 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:27,299 before that young ox has got a sore neck. Because it's pulling and it's trying 175 00:15:27,299 --> 00:15:32,919 to get its own way and trying to, you know, use its own strength. The big old ox 176 00:15:32,919 --> 00:15:38,539 who's been a bit wiser because he was a young ox— I don't know if my 177 00:15:38,539 --> 00:15:44,158 illustrations aren't very good, just go with the flow, you know. I'm sure you've 178 00:15:44,158 --> 00:15:49,778 never been here, so— but you know, sometimes we pull and we pull against God 179 00:15:49,778 --> 00:15:55,397 rather than walk with him, you know, using the discipleship concept. We when you 180 00:15:55,397 --> 00:16:01,017 walk with somebody you can learn so much, but it's no good walking without 181 00:16:01,017 --> 00:16:06,636 learning. I know for a number of years I used to meet with a number of men and 182 00:16:06,636 --> 00:16:12,256 we used to have our discipleship time and that wasn't them coming and listening 183 00:16:12,256 --> 00:16:17,876 to me give my Bible study. I would turn up and one year I gave Matt and the 184 00:16:17,876 --> 00:16:23,495 guys, I gave them a diary and they're like, 'We don't journal.' I'm like, 'Well, 185 00:16:23,495 --> 00:16:29,115 learn.' Because sometimes you just got to, if you're hungry, you just got to do 186 00:16:29,115 --> 00:16:34,734 it, aye. And I remember one guy, a guy called Danny, was phenomenal. And Danny 187 00:16:34,734 --> 00:16:40,354 always used to bring his diary, and I used to say to Danny, what's God saying to 188 00:16:40,354 --> 00:16:45,974 you, Dan? That's discipleship. What's God saying to you, Dan? What do you do 189 00:16:45,974 --> 00:16:51,593 with that? How has that impacted your life? And it was wonderful. You know, 190 00:16:51,593 --> 00:16:57,213 that's what older, bigger oxes do. They get the best out of the younger ox by 191 00:16:57,213 --> 00:17:02,832 walking with them. And then we can move it to Jesus. We need to know what it is 192 00:17:02,832 --> 00:17:08,452 to walk with Him. Discipleship and the Christian life is about walking with 193 00:17:08,452 --> 00:17:14,071 Jesus, following Him, listening to Him, learning from Him. How are you with 194 00:17:14,071 --> 00:17:19,691 learning? Are you at the place? I'm sure you're not. This bit is obviously for 195 00:17:19,691 --> 00:17:25,311 another group who will share this with us on stage. Because not everybody wants 196 00:17:25,311 --> 00:17:30,930 to learn. We live in a society where everybody knows everything, and I want to 197 00:17:30,930 --> 00:17:36,550 be a learner. You know, when I read that, um, about those oxes, you know what I 198 00:17:36,550 --> 00:17:42,169 see in that little story? I see an amazing picture of the grace of God, that 199 00:17:42,169 --> 00:17:47,789 grace of God that is freely given to me and is freely given to you. We're not 200 00:17:47,789 --> 00:17:53,409 supposed to carry all this stuff on our own. Wherever God calls you and I to be, 201 00:17:53,409 --> 00:17:59,028 he gives us the appropriate grace to be able to walk in it. It may not be 202 00:17:59,028 --> 00:18:04,648 pleasant, but he is with us, always with us. You know, and sadly, many of us in 203 00:18:04,648 --> 00:18:10,267 difficult times, and we were carrying stuff, we turn to religion or church or, 204 00:18:10,267 --> 00:18:15,887 or to programs. Just turn to Jesus, turn to his word. Listen to his word. See 205 00:18:15,887 --> 00:18:21,507 what his word has got to say to you in this season. My friends, you need to 206 00:18:21,507 --> 00:18:27,126 really grab a hold of— don't live a life of pressure without knowing the grace 207 00:18:27,126 --> 00:18:32,746 of God. Don't be busy with activity without knowing intimacy with God. Don't 208 00:18:32,746 --> 00:18:38,365 settle for performance, doing everything and doing it well, without encountering 209 00:18:38,365 --> 00:18:43,985 the presence of God, those things will totally transform your life. You know, we 210 00:18:43,985 --> 00:18:49,604 are— God is not trying to crush you and destroy you. He's trying to raise you up 211 00:18:49,604 --> 00:18:55,224 as a man and a woman of God who is walking with him. We're talking about 212 00:18:55,224 --> 00:19:00,844 seasons. Acts 3:19 says this, it talks about times of refreshing shall come. 213 00:19:00,844 --> 00:19:06,463 From the presence of the Lord. That's where this refreshing comes. It flows from 214 00:19:06,463 --> 00:19:12,083 the presence of God. It's not from a program, it's from him. You're not meant to 215 00:19:12,083 --> 00:19:17,702 live day by day dry and barren. You're called to walk with him and he meets our 216 00:19:17,702 --> 00:19:23,322 needs. Let me close with a couple of phrases. You don't have to do this on your 217 00:19:23,322 --> 00:19:28,942 own. It's great that we're able to fellowship with each other, whether we're 218 00:19:28,942 --> 00:19:34,561 around this table or whether we're seeing each other during the week. You know, 219 00:19:34,561 --> 00:19:40,181 when we fellowship with each other, we want to operate in truth and reality and 220 00:19:40,181 --> 00:19:45,800 in faith. We need to be able to share where we are and what we're walking 221 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:51,420 through. And honestly, you know, don't just say you'll pray for somebody. Pray! 222 00:19:51,420 --> 00:19:57,039 If somebody's sharing their heart and their situation for you, you know, I would 223 00:19:57,039 --> 00:20:02,659 say, 'Can I say a wee prayer for you?' And they may be thinking that I'm going 224 00:20:02,659 --> 00:20:08,279 to go away and do that, but I'm going to be doing it there and then. And you may 225 00:20:08,279 --> 00:20:13,898 say, 'Oh, you might embarrass them.' Yeah, they may just encounter God as well, 226 00:20:13,898 --> 00:20:19,518 so I'll risk that, you know, because I want them to encounter God. Not just my 227 00:20:19,518 --> 00:20:25,137 good thoughts, etc. So in closing, let me say this. Galatians 6:2 talks about us 228 00:20:25,137 --> 00:20:30,757 bearing one another's burdens and so fulfil the law of Christ. Listen, my 229 00:20:30,757 --> 00:20:36,377 friend, I want to say this as of the word of God. He says, come to me. Don't try 230 00:20:36,377 --> 00:20:41,996 and fix yourself up before you come. 'Come weary, come burdened, come exhausted, 231 00:20:41,996 --> 00:20:47,616 come overwhelmed.' You can start— you can throw your own in here. I'm sure you 232 00:20:47,616 --> 00:20:53,235 could add to that list. 'Come angry, but come.' But that requires movement on 233 00:20:53,235 --> 00:20:58,855 your part, my friend. And Jesus says, and from Psalm 55:22, 'Cast your burdens 234 00:20:58,855 --> 00:21:04,474 on the Lord.' That's Psalm 55:22. You know, um, we can't earn rest. It's a gift. 235 00:21:04,474 --> 00:21:10,094 We just have to receive it. And my prayer for each of us is that we will know 236 00:21:10,094 --> 00:21:15,714 what it is to come and align our lives to the Word of God. Don't ask God for a 237 00:21:15,714 --> 00:21:21,333 word. It's right there in the Word. I want to encourage you, get into his Word 238 00:21:21,333 --> 00:21:26,953 and stand on the Word of God. Ask somebody to go through it with you. Like that 239 00:21:26,953 --> 00:21:32,572 Ethiopian eunuch, stuck on the backside of a desert, but God had gone before him 240 00:21:32,572 --> 00:21:38,192 and he had called Philip to track him. Philip moved away from a revival town to 241 00:21:38,192 --> 00:21:43,812 the backside of a desert where he bumps into an Ethiopian who sat in his chariot 242 00:21:43,812 --> 00:21:49,431 reading his Scripture. And Philip said to him, 'Do you know what you're 243 00:21:49,431 --> 00:21:55,051 reading?' And he said, 'How can I unless somebody tells me?' 'Let's do that.' 244 00:21:55,051 --> 00:22:00,670 You know, we're not called to be experts, we're called to be followers and 245 00:22:00,670 --> 00:22:06,290 lovers of Jesus. And when you're full of him, it's hard to contain him. You just 246 00:22:06,290 --> 00:22:11,910 want to let him overflow. Ooh! 247 00:22:14,059 --> 00:22:19,050 I think that's the Lord saying stop. Wow, it's great that you've got such a 248 00:22:19,050 --> 00:22:24,041 direct line by phone to the good Lord. Thanks for that. Before we get into the 249 00:22:24,041 --> 00:22:29,032 discussion, I just want to say hi to the people in the comments, although, um, 250 00:22:29,032 --> 00:22:34,022 as Matt's, um, comment suggests, we've kind of got two streams going on, a 251 00:22:34,022 --> 00:22:39,013 vertical and a horizontal. Don't really get it, and I can only actually see one 252 00:22:39,013 --> 00:22:44,004 of them, so I'm relying on Matt to kind of tell me who else is around. Thank 253 00:22:44,004 --> 00:22:48,994 you. So all at the moment I can see Alicia. Hi, and Matt. And I think— are you 254 00:22:48,994 --> 00:22:53,985 sending me other bits through? Yes. Okay, cool. Uh, oh, we've got Alice as well. 255 00:22:53,985 --> 00:22:58,976 I'm sure there are others out there that I'm not aware of yet, but hi, welcome. 256 00:22:58,976 --> 00:23:03,967 We will try and pick up your comments as we go. So let's get into discussion. So 257 00:23:03,967 --> 00:23:08,957 I actually wanted to start off because, Dave, you— well, started off with a 258 00:23:08,957 --> 00:23:13,948 question When you first started your talk, Dave, you mentioned about burnout. So 259 00:23:13,948 --> 00:23:18,939 I just wanted to ask you guys whether you've experienced burnout, and if so, 260 00:23:18,939 --> 00:23:23,930 why? What led up to it? 261 00:23:25,819 --> 00:23:33,599 Well, I can answer in the affirmative. Yes, I've experienced burnout. So I was a 262 00:23:33,599 --> 00:23:41,379 secondary school teacher for 15 years. Say no more. Say no more. I found that I 263 00:23:41,379 --> 00:23:49,159 ended up doing too much, taking on too much, too much work, and eventually, 264 00:23:49,159 --> 00:23:56,940 yeah, started getting unwell. And I, you know, only because of the grace of God, 265 00:23:56,940 --> 00:24:04,720 and the very small amount of faith that I had and the community of people who 266 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:12,500 were around me encouraged me to leave, basically, and to do something else. And 267 00:24:12,500 --> 00:24:20,279 I did that, and so I left, and, you know, I now work for myself. I'm now a 268 00:24:20,279 --> 00:24:28,059 gardener. But I know, you know, I remember having Matti just like, just stressed 269 00:24:28,059 --> 00:24:35,839 and just sad and just not knowing, you know, feeling trapped and all of those 270 00:24:35,839 --> 00:24:43,619 things and feeling responsible and yeah, just, just, it was a really hard time, 271 00:24:43,619 --> 00:24:51,400 really difficult. And, you know, just so, so grateful to God for walking through 272 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:59,180 it with me, carrying me through, and, you know, bringing me out the other side. 273 00:24:59,180 --> 00:25:06,960 Yeah, definitely, 100%. Cool. What about you, Dave? 274 00:25:07,869 --> 00:25:13,933 Yeah, I think I, um, probably realized what was coming my way. So before it 275 00:25:13,933 --> 00:25:19,997 really crunched into my life, I just became aware of why I was feeling, you 276 00:25:19,997 --> 00:25:26,060 know, having these, like, say, symptoms or signs. And, um, it was because of my 277 00:25:26,060 --> 00:25:32,124 pride. 'You know, I was very blessed, I was going here, I was doing this, da da 278 00:25:32,124 --> 00:25:38,187 da da.' But I was in automatic pilot. You know, I wasn't tuned in, I wasn't— it 279 00:25:38,187 --> 00:25:44,251 was too much about me, really. And it was about pride and when I seen what was 280 00:25:44,251 --> 00:25:50,314 coming, I'll be honest, you know, I sat there and wept. And I just said, 'Thank 281 00:25:50,314 --> 00:25:56,378 you, God,' I just became really aware of where that could have led to. And 282 00:25:56,378 --> 00:26:02,441 there's a book called 'Running on Empty' and it's a book that Julie gives or 283 00:26:02,441 --> 00:26:08,505 recommends to lots of people. And it's about a pastor of a huge church and 284 00:26:08,505 --> 00:26:14,568 everything's great in his life, blah blah blah. And he doesn't realize that he's 285 00:26:14,568 --> 00:26:20,632 running on empty until he finds himself a little bit where you were, sat on on 286 00:26:20,632 --> 00:26:26,695 the pavement one day, wondering, where am I? Why am I here? Yeah. You know, and, 287 00:26:26,695 --> 00:26:32,759 um, but he was damaged. I have to say, I'm so thankful that, you know, God 288 00:26:32,759 --> 00:26:38,822 convicted me of my pride. Otherwise, I think I could have escalated into being a 289 00:26:38,822 --> 00:26:44,886 boro. You know, I do want to say that it was my pride. It wasn't God trying to 290 00:26:44,886 --> 00:26:50,950 teach me something. It was just me being unteachable and self-sufficient. 291 00:26:51,319 --> 00:26:56,250 Yeah, I've definitely experienced it as well, and I think for me it was a 292 00:26:56,250 --> 00:27:01,179 similar scenario, but of where I think I'd taken something that was good from 293 00:27:01,179 --> 00:27:06,109 God's Word and twisted it. So that whole thing of, you know, the Bible talks 294 00:27:06,109 --> 00:27:11,039 about us partnering with God and seeing— helping see his kingdom come and 295 00:27:11,039 --> 00:27:15,970 reaching you know, helping people who are really lost or really struggling. Um, 296 00:27:15,970 --> 00:27:20,899 but somehow I twisted that into it's all my responsibility, like the whole 297 00:27:20,899 --> 00:27:25,829 world. And it's like, you're never finished with that job, are you? So it's 298 00:27:25,829 --> 00:27:30,759 like, I can't take time off because there's all these people out here who need 299 00:27:30,759 --> 00:27:35,689 to hear. And it honestly got to the point of just being totally exhausted. But 300 00:27:35,689 --> 00:27:40,619 again, it's like that underneath, um, it's the underneath driver Yeah, so it's 301 00:27:40,619 --> 00:27:45,549 not necessarily the— for me, not the external situation, it was all the 302 00:27:45,549 --> 00:27:50,480 internal. And I think sometimes a lot of our burnout can be from the internal 303 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:55,409 drivers, can't it? Like you've said, like the pressure to perform, or, um, you 304 00:27:55,409 --> 00:28:00,339 know, you've got to be a high achiever, or, um, yeah, yeah. 305 00:28:00,789 --> 00:28:05,130 We're not immune from that, are we, in church? No, no, no. 306 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:11,738 I, um, one of the verses that that helped me see where I was. It was in the book 307 00:28:11,738 --> 00:28:17,556 of Jonah, and it was in the first chapter. And the book of Jonah, I'm not gonna 308 00:28:17,556 --> 00:28:23,375 describe it perfectly, but Jonah ends up in the boat, running away from God, 309 00:28:23,375 --> 00:28:29,193 ends up in the boat, and the sailors quickly establish that the problem here is 310 00:28:29,193 --> 00:28:35,012 that the creator of the universe, the God who Jonah worships, 'Who is in control 311 00:28:35,012 --> 00:28:40,830 of everything, the wind, the waves, the water, the sea, has brought this storm 312 00:28:40,830 --> 00:28:46,649 in order to punish Jonah.' And Jonah said to them, 'Look, the answer to this is 313 00:28:46,649 --> 00:28:52,467 to throw me over.' So they know, they've drawn the lots, they know it's Jonah, 314 00:28:52,467 --> 00:28:58,286 they know it's about God, all of that. And the decision that they make, it says 315 00:28:58,286 --> 00:29:04,104 in Jonah 1, I think it's Verse 13, it says, knowing all of this, they tried even 316 00:29:04,104 --> 00:29:09,923 harder to row, and they couldn't do it. So knowing exactly what the situation 317 00:29:09,923 --> 00:29:15,741 was that they were in, that this was the Creator of the universe who caused 318 00:29:15,741 --> 00:29:21,559 this, they decided that what we need to do here is try even harder. And I just 319 00:29:21,559 --> 00:29:27,378 thought, That is me right here, right now. What I'm trying to do is work is 320 00:29:27,378 --> 00:29:33,196 getting harder and I've just got to work harder and harder and harder. And it 321 00:29:33,196 --> 00:29:39,015 was just really convicting that, you know, it was all about pride. It was all 322 00:29:39,015 --> 00:29:44,833 about, I can do this. I can get myself out of this. You know, I got myself to 323 00:29:44,833 --> 00:29:50,652 this position, I can get myself out of it. And I think one of the things with 324 00:29:50,652 --> 00:29:56,470 this burnout is that what— by the time you get to that place, because you've 325 00:29:56,470 --> 00:30:02,289 believed for so long that this is all about you, you've, you've isolated 326 00:30:02,289 --> 00:30:08,107 yourself from people who are around you, and you've, you've pushed away any help 327 00:30:08,107 --> 00:30:13,926 that you want because you're so convinced that, that it's all about you. And so, 328 00:30:13,926 --> 00:30:19,744 you know, I think that's like— it almost compounds the problem, doesn't it? 329 00:30:19,744 --> 00:30:25,563 Because you're not then around people who you can be vulnerable with, who you 330 00:30:25,563 --> 00:30:31,381 can say, you know, I'm not doing well, and, and, and talk to and things like 331 00:30:31,381 --> 00:30:37,200 that. And just compounds the problem, doesn't it? True. 332 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:42,380 Um, yeah, but talking of help, Ellis has put in the comments, um, is asking for 333 00:30:42,380 --> 00:30:46,759 advice. So he says, I find it can be difficult when you're asking God to take 334 00:30:46,759 --> 00:30:51,140 the lead, as it were, but it doesn't feel like he's doing it. Any advice? 335 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:56,960 Great question, I think. Great question. I would, for me in that situation, I 336 00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:01,960 ask the question and I'm just in the Word of God, you know, and I expect, you 337 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:06,960 know, people hear from God in lots of different ways. For me, God will never 338 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:11,960 speak beyond his Word. Whatever, you know, people say, 'God said this,' it won't 339 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:16,960 be contrary to what you'll find in the Word of God. And I think, you know, the 340 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:21,960 key thing to moving ahead is just to open up the Word of God. Ask God to speak 341 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:26,960 to you. Ask God to come into your situation. Ask God to come and bring rest. 342 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:31,960 Because, you know, when our lives are a bit chaotic and we're stressed and we've 343 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:36,960 got anxiety, it's very hard to hear him because you've got all this background 344 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:41,960 noise. You know, some of it is self-induced, some of it's by other people, some 345 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:46,960 of it is circumstantial. But I would really encourage everybody, you know, as 346 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:51,960 you develop your devotional life in the Word and in prayer, God speaks. You 347 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:56,960 start thinking, 'Hmm, I think God just spoke to me,' you know, either through 348 00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:01,960 his Word or it might be, you know, through pictures or whatever it is, however 349 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:06,960 you hear from God. But I think we have to lose the McDonald's thing when we 350 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:11,960 pray. Drive around to the next window. That's just fast food, and God doesn't 351 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:16,960 want us— or dare I say junk food, if you're allowed to. You know, God wants to 352 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:21,960 do something significant in our lives, and he wants you to be part of the 353 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:26,960 process. 354 00:32:28,420 --> 00:32:33,535 Yeah, I think I'd pick up on that as well, because, Dave, you used the 355 00:32:33,535 --> 00:32:38,651 illustration of the oxen with the yoke that goes across them, and that's 356 00:32:38,651 --> 00:32:43,767 definitely, you You know, I really like that imagery, but the imagery is also to 357 00:32:43,767 --> 00:32:48,883 do with rabbis that— the different rabbis of the time had the teaching which was 358 00:32:48,883 --> 00:32:53,999 also called the yoke. I guess it was to do with the oxen, wasn't it? Because 359 00:32:53,999 --> 00:32:59,115 it's— but so the teaching is the yoke. And so Jesus is saying that my teaching 360 00:32:59,115 --> 00:33:04,230 is— what was the words? Uh, uh, yes, he says like, take my yoke, take my 361 00:33:04,230 --> 00:33:09,346 teaching on you. 'Learn from me because I'm gentle and humble in heart, and 362 00:33:09,346 --> 00:33:14,462 through that you'll find rest.' So again, yeah, I totally agree with Dave that 363 00:33:14,462 --> 00:33:19,578 it is, it's this process of, um, over time learning from Jesus, like from his 364 00:33:19,578 --> 00:33:24,694 teaching in the word, but the Spirit bringing life to that. And over time, that 365 00:33:24,694 --> 00:33:29,809 changes how you view everything. Definitely changed for me. 366 00:33:30,289 --> 00:33:35,616 Yeah, yeah, yeah. What about you? Well, I think it If my memory is so poor, but, 367 00:33:35,616 --> 00:33:40,942 um, I think the, like, the question about, you know, waiting for God's leading. 368 00:33:40,942 --> 00:33:46,269 I think one of the things, uh, a guy who I, uh, was discipled by a long, long 369 00:33:46,269 --> 00:33:51,595 time ago, guy called Gareth Cowles, um, star guy who we all know and love, um, 370 00:33:51,595 --> 00:33:56,922 he said to me right at the start when he first started getting to know me, he 371 00:33:56,922 --> 00:34:02,248 said, Mike— I wrote it down here— what he said, don't run ahead of God, and you 372 00:34:02,248 --> 00:34:07,575 need to walk with him. And he could see in me straight away there was a tendency 373 00:34:07,575 --> 00:34:12,901 for me to run ahead and to get impatient and to run ahead and get into pride and 374 00:34:12,901 --> 00:34:18,227 all of that. And he just, you know, right from the beginning, almost the first 375 00:34:18,227 --> 00:34:23,554 the first time he met me, he was like, 'Mike, you need to not run ahead of God. 376 00:34:23,554 --> 00:34:28,880 You need to walk with him.' And I think when you're waiting for God to lead you, 377 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:34,207 you know, just wait. You are, you are in the right place and you just need to 378 00:34:34,207 --> 00:34:39,533 wait. And sometimes it's in that waiting that you learn that this isn't about 379 00:34:39,533 --> 00:34:44,860 you. 380 00:34:45,079 --> 00:34:50,027 Yes. And it, it's being part of that process. Like Kowalski, as we fondly know 381 00:34:50,027 --> 00:34:54,975 him as, you know, I'm sure my And when he was saying this to you, you could 382 00:34:54,975 --> 00:34:59,923 almost see those things in him, him working those things out in his own life. 383 00:34:59,923 --> 00:35:04,871 Yeah, yeah, you know, and learning that discipline because we're not having to 384 00:35:04,871 --> 00:35:09,819 do it on our own. We are to learn from each other. The rabbi stuff, really, 385 00:35:09,819 --> 00:35:14,767 though, that illustration— we live in an individualistic society where 386 00:35:14,767 --> 00:35:19,715 everything's about me and mine and da da da. That doesn't work with the rabbi 387 00:35:19,715 --> 00:35:24,663 thing. You know, you go and you walk with him. And the reality is, um, is that, 388 00:35:24,663 --> 00:35:29,611 you know, if you— the rabbi picked you, you didn't pick your rabbi. Yeah. And 389 00:35:29,611 --> 00:35:34,558 you would— he would pick you and you would start to walk with him and live with 390 00:35:34,558 --> 00:35:39,506 him. And what would happen is you only shared what you learned from him, you 391 00:35:39,506 --> 00:35:44,454 know, and you would And this always gets a negative thing, but you hear what I'm 392 00:35:44,454 --> 00:35:49,402 saying? You mimic your rabbi. Yeah. You know, in the good things. So you would 393 00:35:49,402 --> 00:35:54,350 have picked things up from Kowsy. Yeah. That you think, I really learned a whole 394 00:35:54,350 --> 00:35:59,298 lot. You know, my life's been so blessed by being around people I've learned 395 00:35:59,298 --> 00:36:04,246 from, you know. And it's that rabbi thing, humbling yourself to learn. Yeah. 396 00:36:04,246 --> 00:36:09,194 We're, you know, 21st century is we know everything. Yeah. Who are you to tell 397 00:36:09,194 --> 00:36:14,142 me that? Why should I be listening to you? Well, that's probably pride, and 398 00:36:14,142 --> 00:36:19,090 we've used that word quite a lot. 399 00:36:19,139 --> 00:36:23,178 Yeah, yeah, yeah. On a slightly funnier side on that one, so one of our oldest 400 00:36:23,178 --> 00:36:27,216 sons had done quite a lot of editing for a lot of Matt's podcasts and stuff, my 401 00:36:27,216 --> 00:36:31,255 husband's podcast, his dad, and it got to the point where he could like do a 402 00:36:31,255 --> 00:36:35,293 really good imitation because he'd listened to so much stuff that he could walk 403 00:36:35,293 --> 00:36:39,331 like him, talk like him, everything. But yeah, so it's kind of like that only on 404 00:36:39,331 --> 00:36:43,369 a deeper level. 405 00:36:43,610 --> 00:36:46,685 But it really is that. Yeah, you know, they would have dressed together. If you 406 00:36:46,685 --> 00:36:49,760 watch The Chosen— 407 00:36:49,969 --> 00:36:51,980 I'm not doing a podcast for 2 years, just— 408 00:36:51,980 --> 00:36:57,317 he's doing them for you. You think you're happy, but you are. But you know, if 409 00:36:57,317 --> 00:37:02,654 you've watched The Chosen, and I haven't seen all of them, and I know it's a 410 00:37:02,654 --> 00:37:07,992 dramatization, I do love it, but you, you pick up these things where they just 411 00:37:07,992 --> 00:37:13,329 embody their rabbi. Yeah. You know, and it's just beautiful to see. 412 00:37:13,380 --> 00:37:15,519 It's a great visual, isn't it, of how it works. 413 00:37:15,639 --> 00:37:19,407 There's no, there's no room for self-will. You know, I feel really blessed to 414 00:37:19,407 --> 00:37:23,175 live in the 21st century, but I'm just aware there's so many people wanting to 415 00:37:23,175 --> 00:37:26,942 do it their way, etc., rather than just saying, I'm following Jesus, I don't 416 00:37:26,942 --> 00:37:30,710 want to do the Jesus way. Yeah. 417 00:37:31,500 --> 00:37:36,256 And that's costly. Got a few comments from Alicia. She said this 'Talk is 418 00:37:36,256 --> 00:37:41,013 exactly what I need at present.' That's great, fabulous. Yeah, brilliant. Um, 419 00:37:41,013 --> 00:37:45,769 she also said, 'Burnout for me is almost always precipitated by overcommitting. 420 00:37:45,769 --> 00:37:50,526 I often misjudge what I can do in my waking hours, and when something seems like 421 00:37:50,526 --> 00:37:55,283 a worthy endeavor, I can be too hasty to say yes.' I think a lot of us can 422 00:37:55,283 --> 00:38:00,039 relate to that one. Um, and also she says, 'I'm most successful when I take the 423 00:38:00,039 --> 00:38:04,796 time to pray about what's being asked of me first instead of being afraid of 424 00:38:04,796 --> 00:38:09,553 offending someone by asking them to wait. Those who love me tend to be patient. 425 00:38:09,553 --> 00:38:14,309 All great thoughts. Yeah, fabulous. Wonderful. On the back of that, I just 426 00:38:14,309 --> 00:38:19,066 wondered, have you got any, um, examples of where— like, specific examples of 427 00:38:19,066 --> 00:38:23,823 where getting into God's teaching, like, into Jesus' teaching, has lifted that 428 00:38:23,823 --> 00:38:28,579 kind of burden, given you that rest, given you that freedom, as it were? 429 00:38:30,510 --> 00:38:36,999 Well, I am— me and another friend of mine, I've only got two, a guy called Joe 430 00:38:36,999 --> 00:38:43,488 Evans, introduced me to a book called The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry, a book 431 00:38:43,488 --> 00:38:49,978 called Brilliant, book by John Mark Comer, a really good book. And he talks 432 00:38:49,978 --> 00:38:56,467 about lots of things, but one of the things that he talks about is The Need to 433 00:38:56,467 --> 00:39:02,957 Sabbath. And so I suppose the way John Mark Comer talks about it in this book 434 00:39:02,957 --> 00:39:09,446 is, is it's, it's really important for us as human beings to do what our Creator 435 00:39:09,446 --> 00:39:15,936 tells us to do. And he knows how we work best, and he knows that we work best 436 00:39:15,936 --> 00:39:22,425 when we're submitted to him. And so by doing this Sabbath thing, which is, you 437 00:39:22,425 --> 00:39:28,915 know, for those who don't know, it's just taking one day in your week and 438 00:39:28,915 --> 00:39:35,404 choosing to not work for the whole of that day. And, you know, and to take that 439 00:39:35,404 --> 00:39:41,894 time out. And it's just as much to train your imagination to say, I am not my 440 00:39:41,894 --> 00:39:48,383 own provider. It is God who provides for me, and I, in faith, I'm going to not 441 00:39:48,383 --> 00:39:54,873 work for this day, and I'm going to trust that God is going to provide for me. 442 00:39:54,873 --> 00:40:01,362 And I think, you know, over time— and it has taken time— doing that practice, 443 00:40:01,362 --> 00:40:07,852 um, has helped to remind myself each week that I'm not in in control. Um, and 444 00:40:07,852 --> 00:40:14,341 just also just to like, yeah, just to train my imagination. I suppose it's the 445 00:40:14,341 --> 00:40:20,831 same with, with when we take the bread and the wine, isn't it? It's that 446 00:40:20,831 --> 00:40:27,320 constant retraining of our imagination. That's one thing that I found quite 447 00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:33,809 helpful. 448 00:40:33,969 --> 00:40:36,904 It's great to have that day to actually enjoy the stuff that we do have that 449 00:40:36,904 --> 00:40:39,840 we've been blessed with, isn't it? Because sometimes we can be so busy, like, on 450 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,775 to the next thing that we don't stop and just go, 'Oh yeah, thank you.' That's 451 00:40:42,775 --> 00:40:45,710 such a wonderful book. 452 00:40:46,159 --> 00:40:51,391 Um, John Mark Comer's great. Being a bit older than my— um, John Mark Comer's 453 00:40:51,391 --> 00:40:56,623 discipler is a guy called Dallas Willard. All right. And he is just— he died a 454 00:40:56,623 --> 00:41:01,855 couple of years ago, but what John Mark has done, he— it's the same teaching as 455 00:41:01,855 --> 00:41:07,087 Dallas, so literally, but he has brought a 21st century view of it. And, and 456 00:41:07,087 --> 00:41:12,319 it's a separate piece of work, but I mean, I've compared them, they are exactly 457 00:41:12,319 --> 00:41:17,550 the same. And, and that doesn't take anything away. Yeah, it just shows you the 458 00:41:17,550 --> 00:41:22,782 value of mentoring, or, you know, the rabbi thing. John Mark Coleman is 459 00:41:22,782 --> 00:41:28,014 phenomenal, it's far too clever for me. Um, Dallas Wheelhouse was psychology, 460 00:41:28,014 --> 00:41:33,246 um, I can't remember what he did, but you know But it highlights this thing 461 00:41:33,246 --> 00:41:38,478 about we're not God. Yeah, yeah. Removing ourselves from being God in our own 462 00:41:38,478 --> 00:41:43,710 lives. Yeah. 463 00:41:43,789 --> 00:41:48,336 John Mark Comer has also written a book called Practicing the Way, which has got 464 00:41:48,336 --> 00:41:52,883 the bits about— he starts off talking about the rabbi and learning from the 465 00:41:52,883 --> 00:41:57,430 rabbi. So also a really good book if you want to kind of— yeah, might be a great 466 00:41:57,430 --> 00:42:01,976 place, Alice, for, for you as well to start with that. But same question to you, 467 00:42:01,976 --> 00:42:06,523 Dave, which was, is there a specific teaching of Jesus that, as you followed it, 468 00:42:06,523 --> 00:42:11,070 has brought that freedom and that rest for your soul? 469 00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:17,419 Yeah, I am— I need to give it context that a few years ago I got really sick 470 00:42:17,419 --> 00:42:22,998 and, um, and I haven't been healed of that yet. Um, but what it means is that I 471 00:42:22,998 --> 00:42:28,578 have horrendous insomnia. And, you know, I had a whole season lying in bed 472 00:42:28,578 --> 00:42:34,157 going, 'Ahh,' did everything But then I decided I would get up and I would start 473 00:42:34,157 --> 00:42:39,737 to pray and I would start to resource, you know, for a big chunk, you know, 2, 474 00:42:39,737 --> 00:42:45,316 3, 4 hours an evening. Mostly that's what I do. And it's just the Word for me 475 00:42:45,316 --> 00:42:50,896 and prayer, the importance. Like, I am very fortunate, you know, I regularly go 476 00:42:50,896 --> 00:42:56,475 away for the day just to pray. I regularly, maybe once a term, go away for 2 to 477 00:42:56,475 --> 00:43:02,055 3 days just to pray. But this doesn't come. This will hinder you hearing from 478 00:43:02,055 --> 00:43:07,634 God. This honestly will rob your time, will distract you. And I love the phone, 479 00:43:07,634 --> 00:43:13,214 but again, John Mark— I don't know which book it's in, but he's got a lot of 480 00:43:13,214 --> 00:43:18,793 stuff that he says about getting this distraction out of your life. But for me, 481 00:43:18,793 --> 00:43:24,373 it's Just slowly, just, God, what are you saying through your word? I'm wanting 482 00:43:24,373 --> 00:43:29,952 to take that on board. And I, for me, I see a lot of people during the week, if 483 00:43:29,952 --> 00:43:35,532 I'm not reading the word of God, I have nothing to say. Because they certainly 484 00:43:35,532 --> 00:43:41,111 don't need to know my personal wisdom, that's for sure. Yeah. You know, but I 485 00:43:41,111 --> 00:43:46,691 want to operate out of rest. Not pressure, because I hear lots of great things 486 00:43:46,691 --> 00:43:52,270 and I hear some quite disturbing things. But when rest, it's about, it's about 487 00:43:52,270 --> 00:43:57,849 God. They need to hear, they don't need to hear from me. 488 00:43:57,900 --> 00:44:02,619 Yeah, that's great. Alicia says, 'The Sabbath really is a gift. I sometimes 489 00:44:02,619 --> 00:44:07,339 don't realize how overloaded my mind has gotten until I reach the one day where 490 00:44:07,339 --> 00:44:12,058 I get to let it all go.' Yeah, yeah, that's great. It's also a great time to 491 00:44:12,058 --> 00:44:16,778 actually, like, if we are busy because some people actually, you know, the jobs 492 00:44:16,778 --> 00:44:21,497 are really busy, aren't they? And to have that time just to actually see what's 493 00:44:21,497 --> 00:44:26,217 going on and like a restock each week and just go, yeah, okay, process all this. 494 00:44:26,217 --> 00:44:30,936 Yeah. I think I've got so many examples from my own life about— I think it's 495 00:44:30,936 --> 00:44:35,656 just, it's the more I get into God's Word, it's like the more freedom and rest 496 00:44:35,656 --> 00:44:40,376 that you find. I think a big one is to do around identity because there's so 497 00:44:40,376 --> 00:44:45,095 much about that at the moment, isn't there? There's that— I think in the world 498 00:44:45,095 --> 00:44:49,815 there's that sense of you have to make your own identity, which is a lot of 499 00:44:49,815 --> 00:44:54,534 pressure to put on someone, because then you always have to be— feel like you've 500 00:44:54,534 --> 00:44:59,254 got to be better than someone, or at least as good as, or it's almost like a 501 00:44:59,254 --> 00:45:03,973 competition. Whereas when you know who God's made you, that you are made, that 502 00:45:03,973 --> 00:45:08,693 you are adopted into his family, that you're loved not because of anything 503 00:45:08,693 --> 00:45:13,413 you've done but just because he's made you and he's got a purpose for you, it's 504 00:45:13,413 --> 00:45:18,132 like okay, you can let go of all that. Yeah. And you can like live out of that 505 00:45:18,132 --> 00:45:22,852 place of rest and then do what you're called to do from that, rather than, yeah, 506 00:45:22,852 --> 00:45:27,571 trying to grasp some sort of sense of identity or to be as important as someone 507 00:45:27,571 --> 00:45:32,291 else. Or— and it also means that you can do any type of job without, um, needing 508 00:45:32,291 --> 00:45:37,010 to be at the top, you know, to be seen as worthwhile or whatever. Yeah, yeah. 509 00:45:37,010 --> 00:45:41,730 That makes sense. Yeah, that's great. Okay, I'm just aware of the time. Um, 510 00:45:41,730 --> 00:45:46,449 yeah, any last thoughts from either of you? 511 00:45:47,789 --> 00:45:52,867 I remember I, um, my brother works in a barber's, um, and, um, with Benjamin 512 00:45:52,867 --> 00:45:57,945 Hoffwaite in Liverpool. And, um, on the wall they used to have that verse, 513 00:45:57,945 --> 00:46:03,023 didn't they? They used to have it backwards so that when you were looking in the 514 00:46:03,023 --> 00:46:08,101 mirror you could see see it behind you and it had that, that verse, the, the 515 00:46:08,101 --> 00:46:13,178 Matthew 11:28. Um, you know, I do always remember going in and looking in the 516 00:46:13,178 --> 00:46:18,256 mirror and reading it, and it's just such a powerful verse. I think that's like 517 00:46:18,256 --> 00:46:23,334 one of my reflections, just it's just good to hear that verse again and to hear 518 00:46:23,334 --> 00:46:28,412 that, you know, spoken over me. I know, um, I think what you were saying about 519 00:46:28,412 --> 00:46:33,489 identity is really key and really because it's so hard to build your own 520 00:46:33,489 --> 00:46:38,567 identity. And I know, like, when I was teaching, you know, people would— they 521 00:46:38,567 --> 00:46:43,645 wouldn't say they were boasting about their busyness, but they were proud of the 522 00:46:43,645 --> 00:46:48,723 fact that they would say to you, 'Oh, I'm just so busy, just so busy.' And it 523 00:46:48,723 --> 00:46:53,801 felt like a boast. It was like, 'I'm busy because, and therefore, I am 524 00:46:53,801 --> 00:46:58,878 important, and therefore I am someone.' And if you're not busy and stressed and 525 00:46:58,878 --> 00:47:03,956 out of your mind, then it's because nobody's trusted you with enough work to do. 526 00:47:03,956 --> 00:47:09,034 And, and you— and I bought into that, you know, I bought into that. And I was 527 00:47:09,034 --> 00:47:14,112 keen to say to people, oh yeah, just really busy, until I got burnt out. And 528 00:47:14,112 --> 00:47:19,190 then I was like, well, that didn't work well for me. 529 00:47:19,420 --> 00:47:24,571 Yeah, but we weren't like a bad Giovanna. Yeah, yeah. You know, um, and I think 530 00:47:24,571 --> 00:47:29,722 that the whole thing about I am being busy. I've had so many conversations with 531 00:47:29,722 --> 00:47:34,874 people who are busy and doing X, Y, and Z, and not necessarily bad things, but 532 00:47:34,874 --> 00:47:40,025 they're still waking up at 2 o'clock in the morning, 3 o'clock in the morning 533 00:47:40,025 --> 00:47:45,177 with a void. And, um, you know, you said about identity, knowing that there's— 534 00:47:45,177 --> 00:47:50,328 I'm not gonna shape me into my identity. Um, you know, God's the one, he's our 535 00:47:50,328 --> 00:47:55,480 creator. And I remember when we first moved into the tab, we went downstairs and 536 00:47:55,480 --> 00:48:00,631 there's a kiln and there's a potter's wheel and everything. And again, I don't 537 00:48:00,631 --> 00:48:05,782 know anything about anything, but I just, I'm gonna think, you know, I wonder 538 00:48:05,782 --> 00:48:10,934 how you do this, because all the supplies were there. I wasn't brave enough to 539 00:48:10,934 --> 00:48:16,085 have a go, but what I do know is simply this, that when the potter gets his 540 00:48:16,085 --> 00:48:21,237 clay, the clay has to be wet and he has to stay wet. To be shaped and moulded. 541 00:48:21,237 --> 00:48:26,388 When the potter— I get technical now— throws the clay onto the wheel, he knows 542 00:48:26,388 --> 00:48:31,539 what he's looking to shape and form. He's not making a watchamacallit or a 543 00:48:31,539 --> 00:48:36,691 thingymabob. He's making a vase or whatever else you want, cup or saucer, 544 00:48:36,691 --> 00:48:41,842 whatever it is. But he's not making a hope and see or a hope so or a thingymabob 545 00:48:41,842 --> 00:48:46,994 or watchamacallit. He knows what he's looking to shape and to form. And then 546 00:48:46,994 --> 00:48:52,145 he'll do that, and he may even have to reshape it, and then he'll do all the 547 00:48:52,145 --> 00:48:57,297 other bits on the process, which I don't know, um, besides going to a very hot 548 00:48:57,297 --> 00:49:02,448 oven. Um, it's his hands on us. That's how our identity is formed. Yeah, not by 549 00:49:02,448 --> 00:49:07,599 our efforts. 550 00:49:07,699 --> 00:49:11,789 It's making me chuckle. You're talking about pottery because me, a few years 551 00:49:11,789 --> 00:49:15,879 ago, me and my daughter Zoe went and did a, like, a one-lesson pottery thing 552 00:49:15,879 --> 00:49:19,969 with just She's— and mine was definitely a wait-and-see. And we never actually 553 00:49:19,969 --> 00:49:24,059 got around to picking them up, and we were just like, was it pride? Possibly. 554 00:49:24,059 --> 00:49:28,149 Yeah. So I'm still waiting to see. But anyway, yeah, I've forgotten what I was 555 00:49:28,149 --> 00:49:32,239 going to say now. 556 00:49:32,789 --> 00:49:38,496 Well, I've just had another thought come into my head, which is I think my 557 00:49:38,496 --> 00:49:44,204 favorite verse in the Bible is, um, in Romans 8, and it says that, uh, verse 29, 558 00:49:44,204 --> 00:49:49,911 and I'm going to paraphrase, but it basically says that God is changing everyone 559 00:49:49,911 --> 00:49:55,617 who, who loves him, calls him Lord, into the likeness of Jesus. Um, and I just 560 00:49:55,617 --> 00:50:01,324 think, you know, that's, that's his purpose in your life, is to mold you and to 561 00:50:01,324 --> 00:50:07,032 morph you into the likeness of Jesus. And, you know, I I would just say, you 562 00:50:07,032 --> 00:50:12,739 know, don't be like the sailors in the story about Jonah. It's not about you 563 00:50:12,739 --> 00:50:18,445 trying harder. Um, you are the clay, um, your job is just to, to pick the sails 564 00:50:18,445 --> 00:50:24,153 up and jump overboard and, and, and just let God, um, be God. And yeah, that's, 565 00:50:24,153 --> 00:50:29,860 that's it. 566 00:50:30,420 --> 00:50:34,958 That sounds like a great thought to finish on. I think, um, I think we could 567 00:50:34,958 --> 00:50:39,496 like just keep rolling on, but I'm aware of time, and we do want to try and 568 00:50:39,496 --> 00:50:44,034 connect with you in Live Lounge after. Um, it's just— Live Lounge is just where 569 00:50:44,034 --> 00:50:48,572 we— it's very informal chat, just for a few minutes, just so we can connect a 570 00:50:48,572 --> 00:50:53,110 bit more. Um, and hopefully the link will come up in the screen that you can 571 00:50:53,110 --> 00:50:57,649 join us. Lovely, fabulous. Yeah, so yeah, do come and join us, come and say hi, 572 00:50:57,649 --> 00:51:02,187 have a quick chat. It'd be great to meet you. So, um, I I can't actually 573 00:51:02,187 --> 00:51:06,725 remember what's happening next week. Uh, just looking at my husband for 574 00:51:06,725 --> 00:51:11,263 inspiration. Oh, he's going to— he's looking it up. It's going to be good. It's 575 00:51:11,263 --> 00:51:15,801 going to be fabulous. Speaking. Okay, we've got Aid speaking, carrying on in the 576 00:51:15,801 --> 00:51:20,340 series of Jesus— what was it? Jesus the Revolutionary. 577 00:51:21,309 --> 00:51:24,489 So well. I just wanted Dave to say it. 578 00:51:24,650 --> 00:51:24,929 Okay. 579 00:51:25,150 --> 00:51:27,960 No amount of success can fill the place that belonging was meant to fill. 580 00:51:28,219 --> 00:51:33,005 Uh-huh. Okay, so in case, in case you didn't hear that, no amount of success can 581 00:51:33,005 --> 00:51:37,789 fill the place that belonging was meant to. Sure, that's very good. Anyway, very 582 00:51:37,789 --> 00:51:42,574 good. Great. Um, thanks for joining us tonight. I'm going to say goodbye now and 583 00:51:42,574 --> 00:51:47,360 hope to see you in Live Lounge.