Kassaundra 0:00

Hey, guys, I am so excited to bring you this episode today because not only is it our first guest episode for schools and socials, but we are chatting about a hot topic right now in social media, which is SEO and its use with social media. And I'm so excited to have my friend Stephanie Royer here to give you all the details because Stephanie Royer is a former special educator who has been supporting business owners with Pinterest and blogging for over five years. And the current focus of her business is helping teacher authors just like you get more eyes on their products through search engine optimization for Google and Pinterest. She is a strong believer that cohesive keyword strategy will serve your business in all areas, including in social media. So teacher authors, go ahead and reheat that cup of coffee, because I'm your host, Cassandra Foster, and we're about to get schooled in socials. Welcome back to schooled in socials, I am so excited to be doing my first guest interview today with Stephanie Royer and we are talking about a hot topic right now in the social media world, which is SEO and keywords when it comes to your social media content. But before we jump in, I'm going to turn it over to Stephanie so she can introduce herself and let you know what she does. Yes,

Stephanie 1:27

hi, Cassandra, I am so excited to be here. Like you said, my name is Stephanie Royer, and I am a former special education teacher. I worked in the schools for about 10 years. And then, um, you know, life priorities change, I had cancer and went through treatment successfully. But it was just like life is too short to be so stressed all the time. So Pinterest management just fell into my lap. And that's where I started writing services for TPT authors. And so from there, it just kind of changed from well, I still do Pinterest. But I also do SEO blogging for teacher authors who like to have blog posts that soft, sell their resources. And

Kassaundra 2:06

I remember that I learned just recently that you are also a special educator, because I come from a special educator background to which was really cool for me to learn about you. And so because you are in the world of Pinterest, you are in the world of blogging, SEO and keywords really run the content that you are creating. So you are the perfect person for us to chat about why we should be using keywords over on social media now. But for my listeners who don't have a lot of background with SEO and keywords, can you kind of talk about what SEO is what keyword research is just as like a general overview.

Stephanie 2:45

Absolutely. And so you know, me, my love language, is speaking in analogies. So when it comes to SEO, it can seem really overwhelming, especially for people who don't blog, you're thinking Google is scary. I don't need to know how to do this. I'm not a blogger. But really any platform that has a search bar is a search engine. And you want to optimize your content for that. And so if we think of these platforms as basically one big filing cabinet, so in order for these platforms, and search engines, to quickly and efficiently find your stuff to show it to the people who are looking for it, they have to index it, they have to put it into a file of some kind so that they can quickly access it. And so what you're doing as a content creator, is you are making it easy for them to file it away for future use. And so one of the ways that we do that is with keyword research. And so with keyword research you're looking through and finding the right terminology to use in your content to make it easy for it to be filed away and use later. But the problem also is that you you need to take into consideration how many other people are trying to squeeze their content into that same folder. So competition, how competitive your keyword is, is a factor. And then the other factor and keyword research is also what are people really wanting to find when they're searching for that term. So you might think, oh, I want to I want to target this keyword. But really, they're not looking for that type of content when they're searching for that. So that's kind of, in a nutshell, what keyword research is when it comes to SEO.

Kassaundra 4:36

I love that filing cabinet analogy. It's so good. It's like thinking about that finding the sweet spot right when you open your file cabinet. You don't want to be shoving your content in a folder that is like overflowing. But you also don't want to put it in an empty folder. Right? You have to find that sweet spot where there's a folder with a little bit of stuff in there. so that you know that people are actually looking for it. And I think this also really speaks to knowing your audience. Because if you're going to do effective keyword research, and you're going to use keywords effectively, you need to know what they need and what they're going to be looking for. So I think those things definitely go hand in hand. And for those of you creating content on social media, you have probably spent more time kind of focused on how you can serve your audience. And that comes into play here when we're talking about SEO for sure. So that's keyword research and SEO in a nutshell. But what makes keyword research for social media so unique, versus if you were doing keyword research that was based around Google for like a blog?

Stephanie 5:47

Yes. So we've got to go back to that filing cabinet system. And let's think about the person who is standing there putting the files away, putting the content away and pulling it out. Okay, Google is going to be that long time, person who knows exactly what their system looks like, they know all the nuances. They're like, Oh, you want to know about this? Well, you might want to look over here in this folder, like Google is just like really sophisticated in that way. Because that's what Google that's its sole purpose, is helping people find what they're looking for, very efficiently, very quickly, and kind of reading your mind, kind of not creepy way. But just in order to help you find what you need. Now, if we look at Instagram, and Facebook, their primary purpose is not search engine. And so it was actually kind of a secondary thing. They started a social media. And then after a while, they're like, well, we've got a lot of content, and people might want to be able to find what they're looking for. And so they're trying to improve user experience by having a search engine. But the problem is, is the person putting the content away and finding it is a newbie, really, they're going to be very literal. So Oh, you're looking for this keyword. Let me see if there's a folder for that. And let's go to the drawer. And look. And we talked on live on Instagram, you and I, Cassandra about this, that one time, I had seen a real for a guy that I was like, wow, I really liked his stuff. But I forgot to save his profile and follow him. So I went back to try and find him. And I was like, well, he definitely uses Canva tips. So that's what I searched for Canva tips, couldn't find him. And so then I eventually was able to find him under graphic Canva design. And just that one word change made it where I couldn't find him. And if I had been searching him on Google and added a few other little words, like here, Google, this is kind of what I'm looking for, they would have been able to tell me, because that's what they do. That's their primary purpose. But on social media, it's just not quite as sophisticated. And you have to be way more mindful of the of the words that you use. So with social media, their Facebook, Instagram, their primary purpose, when they came to be was not to be a search engine. And it it has kind of evolved in order to improve user experience. Because when you think about it, it's not really in Instagrams best interest for you to immediately find what you're looking for, and then leave. I mean, they love when you scroll aimlessly on their platform. But they also want users to have a decent experience. So they have the search engine. And so I think of this as a newbie, standing in front of a filing cabinet, and they don't have they haven't like mastered that filing system yet. So when someone is looking for something, they're like, Oh, you're looking for X, Y, and Z. Well, let me go to my folder and see if there's a folder for X, Y, and Z. Anyway, so social media keywords, definitely, you have to be more mindful of the phrases that you use.

Kassaundra 9:11

Yeah. And I also found this actually recently, with someone who I was helping with their bio when it came to that like title that they gave themselves. They hashtagged their title. And so I went in because I said, I don't think you're gonna pop up. If someone just types that title in and I was correct, they would have had to put the hashtag I said, so you probably want to take that out of your bio, because people are getting more and more used to going into that search bar and just typing things in. It used to be you could only search by people's handle, so their account names and hashtags, but now people have come to know that Instagram and Facebook are becoming more and more like search engines. And so people are trending towards the way of just putting those keywords in. And so I kind of did that well. experiment I said, I don't think it's going to pop up here. And that that really kind of goes along with what you're saying with the newbie, right? You have to get it just right. And we did chat a lot about this in our live, which I will link in the show notes for everyone. So if there's anything we don't cover here for you that you still might be interested in when it comes to SEO and social media, it's probably in that live, so I'll make sure to link that as well. Okay. So social media is unique, because it is a search engine newbie. And we need to be really specific. So how can we make sure that we are being specific enough to get people to our page and get the content that we need?

That's a really good question. Um, I think it's going to be trial and error. Sometimes, I also think, like you did with your experiment, you really need to physically get on there and search for things and see what comes up. That gives you a lot of clues for user intent for keywords. And it gives you an idea of what Instagram is associating. When Facebook with those keywords, like these are the types of accounts that are really helping people in this area. Or if you go to the top posts, or recent posts, like it gives you an idea of what Instagram is associating with those keywords. And so if you search for that, and your content is kind of far off, from what Instagram views as like, this is the content for this keyword, then you probably want to look for something else, maybe adjust a little bit. Awesome.

Okay, so we know that keyword research is unique for social media. And we really got to test out that search bar in order to get it right. But where should we be using and putting these keywords that we find kind of really connect with our account and our audience for like, maximum optimization?

Yes, there is. There's a list of all the different places where you can put your keywords. And so first, we've talked about it in the name, your name, your nickname, what see I'm not the social media expert, I don't know what they call that the one you can change not your handle. Yes, the name field, okay, in the Name field. So definitely, that's number one, make sure you have your, like your big niche keyword that you want to be known for back in that live, we talked about the trunk of your tree. And so what do you want to be known for? That's really where you want to hone in on the keyword phrasing. And then definitely use some related keywords in your profile description. The other one is that people talk about a lot is in the alt text fields for your content. The only caution as you know, we're both special educators. So we understand. It's not a place to keyword stuff. It is for users. And it needs to be functional. But sometimes those keywords are helpful to include an alt text, so make sure that as appropriate, you add your keywords in there as well,

I'm so glad that you gave that caveat, because I was definitely going to give that caveat as well. And for anyone listening who isn't using alt text right now, I would definitely suggest doing it. It's a better user experience for people on the other end, because if you don't, Instagram just tries to figure out like what your graphic looks like what it's trying to say. And so if you can be more specific there, you're going to help people understand your content even better and access it more people will be able to easily access your content. Okay, that's my little plug on all text.

No, I'm glad you shared that, because that's what I was going to say next was definitely please be using it. Because, again, it's all about serving our audience. And that is one way that you can definitely serve a large portion of your audience, people that rely on alt text. And hashtags are still a thing. I mean, they're not they haven't completely gone away. And you can still utilize those. And so we'll we'll probably talk about this in a little bit. But there are ways to look at hashtag volume. And that gives you a lot of good clues for keywords to use in your content, what are people actually looking for? So definitely use relevant hashtags. But the one thing I would caution you though, is to use hashtags that are relevant to your content, not throw in every possible hashtag, really choose the things that are relevant to that content, because you want Instagram to associate with those keywords. And when you're choosing a lot of vague, slightly related hashtags It's just not serving your content at all.

Yeah, I think you had a great, also a great analogy for this to earn example, I think when we did our live where you were following someone who does like family content, and she had posted something, and you were looking for like crock pot recipes, but like what she had posted wasn't a crock pot recipe, even though she does crock pot recipes on her page, but it showed up on the crock pot recipe page, but it didn't have to do with crock pots. And you're like, well, that's that's not helpful, right? So if you get into that, right, people who see your content are like, well, that's not what I'm looking for. And they're just going to pass over it and you're going to miss out on that opportunity. And so I always suggest for people is to think about basically three categories when you're picking your hashtags. So one your audience that you're trying to target with those hashtags, and using a few hashtags that are relevant to the audience of that post that you're doing thinking about your content pillars. And so what content pillar does that post fall under and using a few hashtags that have to do with that, and then getting very specific on the exact topic of that post, and using a few hashtags that have to do with that piece. So you're really focused in on that one piece of content. And when you're adding those hashtags to your caption?

Absolutely, that's just a great way to look at hashtags. And the other thing, too, is that when it comes to SEO, and I know Instagram, and Facebook, they are definitely getting more sophisticated with user interaction, like how are users interacting with your content. And so if they're deciding to serve up your content for crockpot recipe, because you use that hashtag, and they're scrolling, right, by, like you said, Instagram is gonna start saying, Wow, her content is not hitting with the crock pot recipe crowd. So I'm gonna start showing her stuff less. And so it's definitely, if Instagram or Facebook give you a shot for a keyword, you want to make sure you're hitting it out of the ballpark. And so don't put in hashtags that really aren't relevant to that content.

Yeah, we're kind of moving away from the days of where you just shoved like 30 Semi relevant hashtags in your caption in order to like, maybe be found, because you're giving information to the algorithm, right? Like you said about who is going to see that content, and you want to make sure that it's targeted, and you're not hurting the future potential of your content to be found by those people who really want and need to see it. Yeah.

And so then, you also want to use your keywords on your text overlays your real covers, because if you think about it from that search bar perspective, when people are searching, and they have that list of results. And those images you want to stand out as this content is answering this question or this content is related to this keyword. And so so when you have it front and center on your graphic on your cover, it's more likely that someone is going to click through. And then I do think that another great place to put keywords is when you are replying to comments. Because if you think about it, that is all text that Instagram and Facebook can analyze, we know they're analyzing what you're writing on Instagram and Facebook. And so why not use that as an opportunity to add some more keywords and related keywords. So when you're replying to a comment, like oh, that's a great tip. And you can say, Oh, thanks for you know, thanks for your comment. I really do love this keyword, or whatever it is like and, and don't be like spammy about it, definitely make it natural. And definitely use keyword variations so that it doesn't look so like robotic. But definitely look at your comment replies as an opportunity to just continue to solidify what your content is all about.

I love that that is one place that I had not considered and thought about using those keywords, I think I've really been focused on like getting them in to the bio and the name field and the captions and even with like the text overlays, but that is a great little tidbit. Now I have a follow up question that I don't know if you'll know the answer to but I want to pick your brain on it since you're the SEO expert here. So I know with my very little limited knowledge of blogging, it's important to use the keyword that you're targeting within like so many like characters are like within that first paragraph to really solidify it correct? Yes. How does that translate when you're like writing a caption like, in that hook? Should we be using that key word that we want in our hook? Or is it okay if it comes later? Or are we not sure yet? Because Instagram and Facebook are SEO newbies. I just wanted to kind of get your idea your take there?

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I don't know that it's as essential. But if I look at it from a user perspective, like, let's not bury the lead, let's get right to it. Let's confirm for them that reading this caption is going to be worth their time. Because sometimes for me when I'm scrolling through, and there's like a clever little one liner, I don't open it, because I feel like that's probably all they wrote. But if I can tell that you've written something of substance, by using my keyword in the first sentence or two, like I'm more likely to open it up and see what you have to say. And so just from a user perspective, I think it would be a good idea to use your keyword early on, just to show them that, you know, my content has substance.

Yeah, and I think for me, what I've been trying to do, too, is like, within that hook, addressing my audience, like who I'm talking to, like, instead of just saying, like, check out these great SEO tips. It's more like teacher printers, these SEO tips are for you, you know what I mean? So like getting in that, like, audience based keyword and letting them know like, ding, ding, Dang, this is for you. This is not generic advice. You know what I mean? So I've been like, trying to work that in as well. Yeah, I love that. So any other tips or tricks you can give us when it comes to SEO and social media?

So we had talked about, you know, how can you find these keywords? And what tools do you use? And yes, there are tools out there to help with keyword research. Most of them surround Google. But I still think that those tools can give you a good idea of search volume. Because if a lot of people are looking for this keyword on Google, chances are, that's the phrasing they will use on Instagram as well. So there's definitely some carryover there. So some free tools that you can look at are like key search, Uber, six suggest, I like Keywords Everywhere, there's a small cost, but that's a great tool as well. And so definitely, you can kind of browse those. If you have a social media scheduler, I know tailwind, it gives you I think it gives hashtag volume. So anyway, most of the social media schedulers have hashtag volume, so you can look at those. But the one I kind of wanted to focus on for today, because I think this is a really sticky area for teacher authors, especially because we value community over competition, but you really do want to look at the keywords that competitors are using. And it's not because you're going to set up your profile is exactly like them. It's not because you're going to copy their content. It is purely for the practical reason of Instagram associates this account with the keyword I want to be associated with. And that is huge on Instagram, and Facebook, when you go to search for an account. Have you ever noticed, the first accounts that they bring up are usually in the sphere and space that you are. So when I start typing in a name, like sometimes I try to find a family member or something that they are not related to TPT. And I can almost type their full name. And Instagram is still giving me TPT authors because they're like, we know this is your space. We know these are your people. So that's who they're giving to me in the search results. And so it's really important that you stay within your sphere of keywords. And so that's why competitor analysis, competitor research, whatever you want to call it is essential when it comes to keyword research. And again, it's not to be spammy or sneaky. It's just to be practical. Instagram knows that these people are really doing this keyword well. And so take a look, what keywords are they using? What hashtags are they using?

For sure, this is definitely a great strategy. Like if you are trying to get established on Instagram, just going and looking at like some of the top like TPT accounts you already follow and just seeing like what they're doing. And again, you're not taking away anything from them by like using the same keywords using the same hashtags. The likelihood that if they're more established account that their content will probably show up first for people over your content is probably Billy's still very large, but you're going to be able to get into that same like folder that they're in, and people are going to be able to see their stuff along with your stuff. And everyone brings something different to the table. I tried to, like, always let clients know this, like, you are a unique person. And even though you might be making, you know, second grade math resources, just like this person over here, making second grade math resources, how you approach things, your experience, it's all different. And so the content you create, whether you're using the same hashtags, keywords or not, it's going to be different. And so that's why it's it's okay to do those things and like, not feel bad about them, essentially. Absolutely. I am so glad that you joined us for today. This is very insightful around seo keywords and everything related to now using that on social media platforms. I'm definitely going to link for everyone our live so you can go and check that out that we did on Instagram, if you want to where we kind of talk about the same topic, lots of amazing, amazing analogies from Stephanie, if you don't know, Stephanie, she loves analogies, and they are always on point, I love them. And I'll also link those keyword search tools that you were talking about in the show notes too, so people can take a look and access them if they want to. But before we go, Stephanie, where can people find you and connect with you.

So Instagram is definitely the best place to follow me over there. And I also have a course coming out. It's, it's been a labor of love, I tell you what, but I will be announcing that on Instagram. When that is ready to go. I'll have a waitlist and some goodies for you. So just be sure to hang out with me over there and stay up to date.

Awesome. And we'll make sure that we get the link to Stephanie's Instagram in the show notes. And if her course waitlist is ready. By the time this airs, I will make sure that is also there for you guys as well. And actually 70 Do you want to tell us a little bit about what the course is going to be about? Because it definitely plays off what we talked about here today? Yeah, absolutely.

As I've been supporting teacher authors with blogging and Pinterest, there's this common theme of I have people wanting to hire me, because it's so complicated to do Pinterest and blogging. In reality, it isn't as complicated as everyone makes it seem, you don't have to be an expert in Pinterest, you don't have to be an expert on Google SEO, in order to get found and to get more traffic. And so my course is called Bring Your Own traffic. And it's basically just taking all of my knowledge and putting it into a digestible course so that you can move forward with confidence. You can create blog posts, if that's your goal, you can create blog posts that will get noticed on Google, you can create pins that will bring you traffic to your products. And so I just really wanted it to be a digestible resource for teacher authors that they don't have to buy five different courses in order to know what they're doing. We're just going to get going. Because Pinterest and blogging are not. I mean, yes, they're complicated. And there's a lot going on, but you don't have to be an expert or hire out in order to see results.

For sure, and bringing your own traffic is a really big conversation happening in the TPT world right now. Right. So making sure you have a way to get your audience to to your resources. So I'm super excited for this to come out for you.

Thank you.

So I'm so glad you joined me today, Stephanie. Thank you so much. And we'll have all the links for you guys in the show notes. All right, cool. Coffee friends. Thanks so much for listening. If you're loving getting schooled in socials, make sure to subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Also, I would love it if you left a review so that other teacher authors like you can start getting schooled in socials too. All right, I'll see you in the next episode.