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On this episode of the Dudes and Dads podcast, we talk with our good friend Norm Dyle about the lessons we've learned from our kids.

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You're listening to the dudes and dads podcast show dedicated men be better dudes and dads

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by building community through meaningful conversation and storytelling.

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And now here are your hosts Joel DeMott and Andy Lehman

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Andy Joel.

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Hi.

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We're back.

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No, we are back.

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We are back.

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The sun is shining.

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It's we're recording a little bit earlier in the evening.

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That is a new thing for us.

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only we record it at eight thirty.

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We're on like six now. Yeah.

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Which means I'm bringing extra energy, Andy.

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I'm not bringing the eight o'clock energy.

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I'm bringing the six o'clock energy.

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You have half a cup of coffee instead of a full cup.

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Hold on to your seat.

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Oh, hey, everybody.

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Welcome to the Dudes and Dads podcast.

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Glad, glad, glad and grateful that you.

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Yeah. That we're here together.

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All all three of us.

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I'm glad.

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Yes, we've got a great, we're going to introduce our guests here.

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They'll be coming up in just a minute.

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But Andy, let's real quick, anything exciting going on in your life right now that you want

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to tell us about?

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I just did a whirlwind tour across the state of Ohio and Pennsylvania for work and I'm

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back and oh, I'm tired.

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Yeah, you were cramming a lot of work into a little amount of time.

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What's the latest you had to stay up there on that?

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10 o'clock or so.

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It wasn't terrible.

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Not terrible.

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1130.

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You kick some late nights as far as work is concerned.

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We did.

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Usually you're not working that late.

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No, I do.

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I usually work until 11.

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We've, at our age, we've made it a real habit to not be working that late, of course.

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Right.

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You're just sleeping at that time.

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Yeah.

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Which would be the right, which would be the good call.

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Yes.

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And what have I been up to?

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Thanks for asking, Andy.

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Hey, Joel, wait, wait, wait, wait.

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Hold on.

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What have you been up to?

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I missed it.

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Sorry.

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I'm kidding.

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Great friend I am.

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Yeah, no, no, no.

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What have I been up to?

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Well, you know, just kids.

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just kid, a lot of the kids stuff, Andy and little, you know, some, some baseball games.

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Jackie is, she's fixing to leave me for the great state of Texas this week for a few days.

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Well, that'll be hot.

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It's going to be so hot, so hot down there.

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And so when she does that, I'm calling reinforcements also known as the grandma's, the grandparents.

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That's a good call.

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We got some camps and things to go to and unfortunately I can't clone myself.

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So we're gonna need some help.

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But we are looking forward.

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The summer is off and rolling.

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We're out of school.

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We're doing a few of the things, doing some camps.

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Sweet.

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So I'm looking forward to that.

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And yeah, we're looking forward to a lovely June.

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So now everybody's caught up.

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Andy, we've got our guest.

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We do.

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But before we talk about our guest, let's talk about this little...

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But not at little. This significant endeavor that you've undertook in, undertaken, undertaken.

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So this episode is brought to you by my other podcast, the podcast answers podcast, which

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is where I help people start and grow their podcast. We answer any podcast questions that

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I'm available for one-on-one consulting and would love to help you start your podcast.

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So if you would like to do that, podcastanswers.com.

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If you want your voice to sound as velvety as this one does, give Andy a jingle.

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He'll set you up right.

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All right.

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Well, Joel, we want to welcome Norm to the show.

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Norm, welcome to the show.

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Hey, thanks for having me guys.

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Oh, Norm Dyle.

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Hello.

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Hello.

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Hello.

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Hey, guys.

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Norm and I go, we go way back.

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I don't know how far back, but Norm is, he's an upstanding fellow.

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the kind of person we want on this show because he's going to make Andy and I look like we're

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basically just barely getting through life because Norm Dial is an upstanding. He's a

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dude. He's a dad. He's all the things and he does a great job.

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Norm and I don't go back very far, but I do work with his mom. I discovered this week.

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Interesting.

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After I was talking to you. So, yes.

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So good. So your mom works out this way, Norm. I didn't realize that.

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Yeah, she does. And she's good people too.

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So that would make sense. I mean, it's probably it's in the DNA, clearly, obviously.

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Yeah. So Norm, we were just before the show started, I asked Norm because I had lost track of time.

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Norm, Norm is a pastor. He's he's also a youth worker, which makes him a super special guy in my book.

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And which, you know, he's the grayest setting in. And quite honestly, Norm, I'm surprised it took this long.

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So congratulations.

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Congratulations on that.

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So, Norm, tell us, as we always like to dive into the dad stats, as we like to say, tell

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us a little bit about you, about your family, your kiddos, your wife, what you do, and any

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other special information that might endear our listeners to us.

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Listen, endear our listeners to you even more.

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All right.

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Yeah.

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Well, hey, I grew up in Elkar actually.

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And pretty normal life, I guess, middle America, and ended up meeting my wife, Tara, at Youth

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Group, which I guess is why I wanted to be a youth pastor.

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I could help kids find their future.

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And that's not it at all.

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I do that in yours.

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Norm, do you have...

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I need to ask you the question because Jackie and I, my wife now, we started dating in high

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high school, I wonder if you ever have the conversations with your youth about like,

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"Hey, you're probably not going to find that forever person in high school or in youth

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group."

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And then they throw it back at you like, "Well, you did."

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And then you say, "I always say, well, I'm the exception that proves the rule.

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So don't take my advice, I guess.

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I don't know.

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I don't know."

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But does anybody ever give you a hard time?

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Do you ever have that conversation with the kids?

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Yeah, we're just mostly hush-hush about that.

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That's right.

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That's right.

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That's right. See, we were honest and that's why we suffered. Norm just

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sees why, just keeps that, keeps that on the download. Although it is now out on the podcast,

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so hopefully none of your kids listen to this. Okay, keep going, Norm. Tell us more. All right.

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Yeah. So moved to Coons Lake 16 years ago to become the youth pastor here at Coons Lake

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Missionary Church and been here ever since. Doing student work still, but worship leading as well

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and doing a lot of, I guess, associate pastor kind of duties. And we love it here. This is a place

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that has been home for us. And yeah, we're just super excited to raise our kids here. Two kids,

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Brayden and Landon, both of them are dudes. And so, yes, we are mostly excited to see

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we're gods leading us next. But sometimes I think, you know, we can think of next too much. And so

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living in the current reality is where I'm trying to keep my head, you know, 11 and 9 years old.

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and the first 11 and nine years went so fast for my kids. And so trying to live present every

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single day here in the consulate. Yeah. Let's see. So you and Tara have been married. How long

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have you guys been married? Yeah, 17 years. 2006. So you started, so as one does, starting in

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vocational ministry and marriage together at the same time. I mean, wow, look at you shine.

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That's great.

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Yeah, it hasn't been trying in the least.

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Absolutely not.

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Zero, zero.

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Yeah.

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A little, little in fact, I decided to get fired from a church internship just before

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I got married.

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So a different career path between Norm and I, but you know, again, it all worked.

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But similar.

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Fired and married at the same time.

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Yeah.

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It's, you know, it's nice.

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Life's a little twist and turns.

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So, yeah.

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Yeah, so Norm, this is, when we were talking about this show, Andy and I were talking about

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this idea of kind of the general theme, and I think it'll wind through our conversation

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here.

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The general theme of things that we've learned from our kids.

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And Norm, I feel like you, from some conversations that we've had, and please feel like you don't

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have to remember every conversation that we've had.

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But in my mind, from some of the conversations we've had in the past, what has always struck

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me about you and likely Tara, I guess if she were here to share this too, is that I feel like you

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in your dude and your dad responsibilities in life, that you've always been a learner,

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but that you learn from your kids. You've always like things that it feels like you've seen,

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you know, even how God has used your children to grow you, build you, teach you things along the

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way. And that's something that Andy and I like we're always trying to remain, I think,

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present and open and aware of like it's not just me, the parent to my kid, like, Hey,

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here's a list of things you need to, you know, you need to know and learn and all of this,

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but rather something that they're teaching us to. Yeah, that they're like actually shaping

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like our kids are shaping us to a certain degree and not in a, you know, and I think

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that can be entirely healthy. It's not that I'm, you know, asking Aaron at night, like

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for a life advice often, my oldest son.

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But so that's kind of, that's kind of where our general theme is,

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is like having a conversation around the learnings,

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the things that you've been learning on this,

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this dude and dad journey of yours.

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So I guess first, you know, I started,

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I did some big swing questions here, Andy,

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as you were saw on the show notes here, because it's like, you know,

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not every guest is ready for the deep philosophical deep dive.

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Right away.

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right away, but like I didn't hold back with Norm because I knew he was here for the time.

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So, one of the first questions that came to my mind is that when you think about your

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journey as a dude, what kind of life did you hope for?

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So this is the early days, the 20s, college days, all of that, like hopes, dreams, goals,

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what did you start off in that time of that kind of formational time of life when you

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were thinking about the future.

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Yeah, actually, if you don't mind, I'd like to go back to my teenage years just a

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little bit. Even better.

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And actually, even before that, when I was a kid, I wanted to be a missionary

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and an NBA star at the same time.

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Yeah. Wow.

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And I did not possess the physical nor the natural talent for basketball.

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Or I didn't have the grit and determination, you know, to make sure,

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to will my way into the NBA.

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So I was stuck, I guess, with the missionary work.

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And honestly, I didn't know what that meant.

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Um, when I got in high school, I wanted to own a car dealership with my dad.

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He was a car salesman and, uh, the guys that owned the dealership that he worked at, um,

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you know, they were wealthy.

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They owned part of an island and the Caribbean, you know, they, they had everything you could

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want.

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Um, you know, as far as possession goes and, um, and so I just kind of had that dream like,

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Hey, we're just going to own a car dealership and become rich and wealthy.

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And I was eating, you know, as all good conversations come from eating a meal at McDonald's as a

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sophomore in high school.

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And I was eating with one of my good friends and he said, "Hey, have you ever thought about

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ministry?"

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And honestly, I never had before that moment.

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I never thought about going into ministry.

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And there was an instant affirmation in my soul.

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Like when he said that, there was like, like something just kind of leaped inside of me

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and said, "Oh, that's exactly what God is calling me to."

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And it changed the trajectory of my entire life.

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And so from that point on,

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going into my late teen years, early 20s,

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I just wanted something stable, steady,

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a wife, 2.3 kids, white picket fence,

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just kind of the American dream.

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And other than that,

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I didn't have too many hopes and aspirations

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when I was young.

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hopes were become famous and then rich. And then I just wanted to live kind of a normal

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life. And that's sort of what we've built and kind of what we do here is trying to live

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as normal, I guess, as possible while having the call of God on our life to do some extraordinary

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things.

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Yeah. So, and I think, you know, when we, I don't know, I think all of us to some degree

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reflect about on what we thought life would be like when we were younger, right?

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And usually that's not the case.

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It's not the case.

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And sometimes you really have to have a good laugh with yourself about, you know, because

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it's like, you realize how little of an understanding you had about what it was going to take to

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even get to even a fraction of what you were aspiring to be.

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So moving from that, like once, as a distant for so many of us, getting married and becoming

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a father shifts those goals often in a pretty significant way.

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So what shifts occurred for you as you were like really, you know, really starting to

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get into the adulting phase of life?

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Yeah, really what shifted for me was sort of my perspective on what normal and steady

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means because when I was younger, I thought normal and steady was just kind of easy.

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You know, like I was just going to do this thing and it was just going to kind of come

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easy.

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You know, I watched my parents when I was young and I just thought that things kind of

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came easy to them.

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And if there was something that I saw as maybe a mistake or a shortcoming on their part,

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it was really easy to become, I don't know, I guess judgmental about those things.

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And so becoming a husband and then a father has really shifted my perspective into what

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I thought was normal and steady.

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Is not so easy, at least not as easy as I would have liked it to be.

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There have been a lot of challenges along the way.

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There have been a lot of days and seasons and months where I think it was Adam Grant

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that coined the phrase, or he didn't coin the phrase, but he talks about languishing.

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Sometimes in life, we just kind of are languishing a little bit, but honestly, it's just so much

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more rewarding now to be a dad to live this steady life, though not easy.

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up making the kids breakfast, you know, stuff like that is so much better than,

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than what I thought it was going to be. And yet it's challenging at the same time.

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You know, we, I get, uh, as, uh, as Andy and I both know,

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so I'm, I'm approaching 40. Andy has, I'm well past.

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He's past, he's past the dollar, the, that mark. Uh, but, you know,

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we talked about the quarter life, the quarter life crisis thing norm where,

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or excuse me, you know, midlife crisis thing. Um,

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And oftentimes it, there's probably that, I think that languishing component to it.

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And it's often depicted as kind of a boredom that sets in with, with normalcy, with, with the

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routine. Like you just kind of wake up one day and you're like, what, what am I, yeah, where am I,

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what am I doing? What is my life, what is my life amounted to? And, and I'm part of that.

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If I could say maybe in the negative term is, is a, there's kind of a, there could be a contentment

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issue there. When you think about life right now, and we're going to, as with the next

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couple of questions that I ask about your kids specifically, I think this can tie in.

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What has contentment looked like? How do you feel like you have fostered that

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within life, within your marriage,

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within going from the aspirations of NBA, NBA...

283
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- NBA missionary.

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- Missionary sales dealer, car dealer, Megastar.

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What would you identify there for you personally?

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- You know, I went through a season a couple of years ago,

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but I was really searching for that,

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searching for contentment,

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And I thought that to be important

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was going to bring me contentment.

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And so I said yes to everything I could ministry wise.

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I was leading three different committees or events

293
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on larger scales as well as what I was doing here

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at the church.

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And nothing satisfied what I was searching for.

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And so I actually had to get real with myself and say,

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man, I'm gonna burn out if I just keep going at this pace.

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And so I saw professional counseling.

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And there's one thing that really stuck out to me

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that my counselor talked about.

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He talked about the difference

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between responsibility and concern,

303
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that there are certain God-given responsibilities

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that we have.

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And then there are things that we can be concerned about,

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but they aren't necessarily our responsibility.

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And so as we started looking through the responsibility

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that God has given me, really most of that is,

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is God's call on my life.

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What is, what has God called me to be?

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And he's called me to be a husband.

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And he's called me to be a father.

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And almost everything else in my life

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is simply a concern that I have,

315
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but I don't need to take all of that on his responsibility.

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And so as I've began to say no to other things in life that I thought were going to bring

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me contentment and I learned quickly that they didn't.

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And I started to relieve myself of some of those duties.

319
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I found more joy in just the simple things, the everyday things.

320
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And it's not perfect.

321
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I'm still learning this lesson.

322
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But yeah, I would say that that's really been helpful for me in the last couple of years.

323
00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,560
Yeah, creating space for joy.

324
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Um, there's, uh, yeah, there's something very, very powerful to that.

325
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And, uh,

326
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well, and just recognizing that you need to do that too before you burn out.

327
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That's important.

328
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Cause I think a lot of people don't realize that they're,

329
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they need to carve out that space for joy and then they burn out.

330
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And then it's really hard to come back from that.

331
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And for those of us that are highly like,

332
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because Norm's got the pastor's heart, like the highly conscientious,

333
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like just concerned for all things, you know, so many things,

334
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So many things can cause concern and can draw us in and like, how can I, you know,

335
00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:33,360
how, you know, how can I help?

336
00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:38,400
It's the, uh, I was watching a recent episode of, uh, of Ted Lasso.

337
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And the joke was that Ted, like Ted, like Ted, the character of Ted Lasso is

338
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this very like, he's just concerned about everybody, right?

339
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And the problem is, is that he, uh, he lacks, you know, personal concern for himself.

340
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And that's what was coming through the show.

341
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Ted's mom goes, yeah, he was, he was born.

342
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And the first thing he did was look at the doctor and said, Hey, can I get you anything?

343
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(laughing)

344
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And that's like, some of us identify with that very,

345
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very closely.

346
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:11,280
Norm, here's, this is the good stuff here too,

347
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because obviously you've talked about your family

348
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and we've kind of introduced them,

349
00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:20,640
but I would love it if you could tell us about your boys.

350
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,480
- Yeah.

351
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:31,640
Well, we were blessed with Brayden 11 years ago. And honestly, it was...

352
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:42,680
So much joy has come out of being a father. But then also, there's been a lot of pain

353
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:51,320
associated with fatherhood. And so a lot of it was around Brayden. When he was one, we found out

354
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that he has cerebral palsy and I totally didn't expect it. We were getting sort of a scan done

355
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on his brain because he was having trouble with his eyes just tracking things. And so,

356
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they wanted to make sure there was no tumor or anything on his brain pushing against an optical

357
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:14,280
nerve. And what they found was that he had a stroke and utero at some point probably within the last

358
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week of pregnancy. And so there's been so many questions and so much need that he has that

359
00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:32,920
comes with his disability. It really affects his gross motor skills the most. I mean, there's a

360
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:41,240
developmental delay with everything. But just the most basic things in life, you know, getting dressed

361
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:46,740
in the morning going to the bathroom, even some like feeding, eating routines and stuff

362
00:21:46,740 --> 00:21:56,120
like that. We have to help him with. And he's very frustrated with his condition. And he'll

363
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ask questions sometimes about it. He is wheelchair bound. And so, that frustration comes out

364
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:08,200
often because he just doesn't know what to do with his body and his mind and it's just

365
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:16,280
not working. But I've learned through Brayden how to persevere when things are difficult

366
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because he has no other option. I mean, he just has to push through it. And so it's been

367
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:28,600
just an amazing lesson as I've watched things in my life have kind of come easy to me until

368
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:38,520
in and nothing comes easy for him. On another note, because he is wheelchair bound, it means

369
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that he requires more assistance with mobility kind of things. And so we were in the process

370
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of getting a van converted. And so we had to buy a new van. The conversion itself is more

371
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:56,760
than money than we thought. Then we would spend on a vehicle for our family and getting our

372
00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:02,440
detached garage kind of converted so that he can have indoor access to transfer from

373
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the van into the home. And so we had a lot of needs come up and we're not the type to

374
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:14,120
ask for anything, but our church learned of our needs, our deacons learned of our needs.

375
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And they just put a note out that said, "Hey, if you guys would be willing to help."

376
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And so sort of a side thing that I've learned from through Braden, really through his condition,

377
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is that there are so many people that are, if they understand if they know of a need and there's

378
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:37,560
a clear call for something that can be done, people are just so generous. And I am just floored

379
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:45,320
and brought to tears often of how generous notes, prayers, financial assistance. I mean, it's just

380
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:54,600
amazing to me how much people are willing to meet our needs when honestly on our great pastor salary.

381
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We wouldn't be able to do it on our own.

382
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:05,960
So, where's the thankful and blessed fire community and all that's through Brayden.

383
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:09,160
And so, we see the blessing in that.

384
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:17,520
So, obviously, here it is that you have Brayden and for some families, I mean, it would seem

385
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:24,040
like, man, the responsibility and the task of raising a child with that disability would

386
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:29,080
be like, Hey, that's going to max kind of max us out. But then, but then you had, you

387
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:37,160
had another son and, uh, and so it's like, Hey, choose a party. Uh, so what, uh, what

388
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:42,240
has it? Well, I mean, first talks about, talks about land and I'd love to know what he's,

389
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:46,860
what he's into and what he likes. And I should say, if, if you get to know Norma, if you

390
00:24:46,860 --> 00:24:50,200
fend for him on Facebook, you're going to see a lot of pictures of the boys and you're

391
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:57,140
going to see that they look like pretty doggone, well, adorable children, but pretty happy

392
00:24:57,140 --> 00:25:02,140
kids too.

393
00:25:02,140 --> 00:25:08,020
What has Landon's story been like and what is it like too?

394
00:25:08,020 --> 00:25:13,700
And I think for many of us, we have listeners on here that have children with disabilities

395
00:25:13,700 --> 00:25:17,420
and what the family dynamic looks like out of that too as far as siblings and all of

396
00:25:17,420 --> 00:25:18,420
that.

397
00:25:18,420 --> 00:25:20,340
kind of what that has looked like for you guys.

398
00:25:20,340 --> 00:25:27,220
Yeah, landing early on, we thought landing was more like Terra and he does possess a lot of

399
00:25:27,220 --> 00:25:34,820
Terra's qualities and traits. But what we've discovered is that he picked up all of my bad

400
00:25:34,820 --> 00:25:38,340
habits and my bad tendencies. Perfect.

401
00:25:38,340 --> 00:25:44,340
For instance, I'm, yeah, I'm perfectly comfortable living, you know, in a minor chaos disaster

402
00:25:44,340 --> 00:25:49,220
kind of situation. You know, I don't I don't see messes the way that my wife sees them.

403
00:25:49,220 --> 00:25:54,180
She can out of mess and land in like a tornado could hit his room and he wouldn't even notice.

404
00:25:54,180 --> 00:26:02,260
But he likes all the things that that boys like. He likes gaming. We started a YouTube

405
00:26:02,260 --> 00:26:08,980
channel together. Yes. And we we dropped it for a little bit as some responsibilities we're picking

406
00:26:08,980 --> 00:26:12,460
up in our lives, but he just got Zelda tears of the kingdom.

407
00:26:12,460 --> 00:26:16,420
And so we just recorded our first two episodes

408
00:26:16,420 --> 00:26:18,460
and we're going to be putting those out soon.

409
00:26:18,460 --> 00:26:24,060
And and yeah, he's he's just a bundle of joy and energy and brains.

410
00:26:24,060 --> 00:26:29,580
And yeah, and we will we'll definitely be sharing the link to that show notes

411
00:26:29,580 --> 00:26:31,900
because you guys should you guys should check that out.

412
00:26:31,900 --> 00:26:35,140
I I feel like I would do something.

413
00:26:35,140 --> 00:26:36,660
I maybe I would try to do something like that.

414
00:26:36,660 --> 00:26:42,620
But like, I just know that my kids could severely school me in any game whatsoever.

415
00:26:42,620 --> 00:26:43,120
Same here.

416
00:26:43,120 --> 00:26:45,420
Like, I'm just so far behind anything that they would.

417
00:26:45,420 --> 00:26:46,920
Joel, that means you're old.

418
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:48,020
That's what it means, you're right.

419
00:26:48,020 --> 00:26:49,360
Yeah, that's right.

420
00:26:49,360 --> 00:26:50,560
That's right.

421
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:57,320
So what is it been like is the because I think this is an interesting dynamic where the young

422
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:04,120
the younger brother is what is the dynamic between between the two brothers?

423
00:27:04,120 --> 00:27:04,620
Like, how is that?

424
00:27:04,620 --> 00:27:05,460
How is that played out?

425
00:27:05,460 --> 00:27:09,220
What have what have what have they had to learn to to work together?

426
00:27:09,220 --> 00:27:12,260
I know what my kids are like, you know, you two boys are

427
00:27:12,260 --> 00:27:15,460
are close, are reasonably close in age, just like my two eldest are.

428
00:27:15,460 --> 00:27:18,460
And I also know the.

429
00:27:18,460 --> 00:27:23,220
How shall we say the various frictions that are also, you know, also accompany

430
00:27:23,220 --> 00:27:25,260
your brothers like that at that age.

431
00:27:25,260 --> 00:27:28,580
What what does it look like for them as they've kind of been growing up here?

432
00:27:28,580 --> 00:27:32,860
Yeah, they they still fight like any other brother would.

433
00:27:34,700 --> 00:27:43,420
they like to annoy one another, pick on one another. But there is just such a great joy in

434
00:27:43,420 --> 00:27:50,140
watching, especially Landon, you know, being a younger brother, you know, usually it's the older

435
00:27:50,140 --> 00:27:55,580
brother that is kind of watching out for the younger brother. But there are times when Landon

436
00:27:55,580 --> 00:28:02,060
is at his best that he really does kind of watch out for Braden and looks out for his needs. And

437
00:28:03,820 --> 00:28:12,140
But one of the most difficult things that at least I have, I'll speak for myself is, you know,

438
00:28:12,140 --> 00:28:18,940
land in as a kid with needs like any other normal kid, you know, needs for relationship with his

439
00:28:18,940 --> 00:28:27,740
parents need needs for care and for time spent with. And he's a super independent kid. He's

440
00:28:27,740 --> 00:28:33,500
really smart. He can do it all on his own. And so one night I was putting land into bed and

441
00:28:33,500 --> 00:28:36,700
And we're going through a particularly tough season with Brayden.

442
00:28:36,700 --> 00:28:42,420
And, you know, a lot of our energy and time is going into Brayden and his needs.

443
00:28:42,420 --> 00:28:46,180
And I just started a conversation with Landon about what it felt like.

444
00:28:46,180 --> 00:28:50,660
You know, that we had to spend so much time with Brayden.

445
00:28:50,660 --> 00:28:52,380
And there is some sadness there.

446
00:28:52,380 --> 00:28:59,260
There is some just a little bit like, you know, he's sad that

447
00:28:59,580 --> 00:29:04,620
that sometimes it means that we take time away from what normally would be his time.

448
00:29:04,620 --> 00:29:08,820
And so that's something that we've been trying to be really intentional about is having time

449
00:29:08,820 --> 00:29:15,700
for both of our boys. And man, it's not easy just because of the obvious and physical needs

450
00:29:15,700 --> 00:29:23,300
that Braden has. Yet it's something that we're trying to be really cognizant of.

451
00:29:23,300 --> 00:29:31,700
So, obviously, you and Tara, something like this could definitely drive a wedge between

452
00:29:31,700 --> 00:29:34,980
people, you know, when the kids have special needs.

453
00:29:34,980 --> 00:29:38,180
How, what have you guys learned about each other, your relationship with each other,

454
00:29:38,180 --> 00:29:39,660
and how you guys parent?

455
00:29:39,660 --> 00:29:45,100
Yeah, it can be so easy to lose one another.

456
00:29:45,100 --> 00:29:48,940
I think just in parenting in general, you know, just take out the special needs.

457
00:29:48,940 --> 00:29:54,500
I think it can be really easy to be hyper focused on your kids that you kind of lose

458
00:29:54,500 --> 00:29:55,500
one another.

459
00:29:55,500 --> 00:29:57,700
And I hear that story so many times.

460
00:29:57,700 --> 00:30:03,540
And we've experienced that in seasons where we're just hyper focused on what we're doing.

461
00:30:03,540 --> 00:30:06,660
When I was in college, I had a marriage and family class.

462
00:30:06,660 --> 00:30:11,260
And one of the things that the professor taught in that class was, one of the best things

463
00:30:11,260 --> 00:30:17,700
that you can do for your kids is to have a really good relationship with your spouse.

464
00:30:17,700 --> 00:30:23,900
And so it's, it's, you know, something that I'm trying to be conscious of, you know, is

465
00:30:23,900 --> 00:30:26,740
on my best days, you know, just really simple things.

466
00:30:26,740 --> 00:30:30,460
Like the first thing I do when I come home from work and, and the boys are there and

467
00:30:30,460 --> 00:30:35,380
Tara's there is I kind of, and sometimes I feel like a bad dad, but I kind of bypassed

468
00:30:35,380 --> 00:30:37,820
them and go straight to Tara.

469
00:30:37,820 --> 00:30:42,460
And you know, even though, you know, out of the five love languages touches probably her

470
00:30:42,460 --> 00:30:45,180
seventh or eighth love language, I still,

471
00:30:45,180 --> 00:30:47,260
- Surprise, surprise.

472
00:30:47,260 --> 00:30:49,700
(laughing)

473
00:30:49,700 --> 00:30:53,660
- I still go give her a hug, give her a kiss,

474
00:30:53,660 --> 00:30:57,140
show that I'm happy to see her.

475
00:30:57,140 --> 00:30:59,660
Just trying to do some really simple things

476
00:30:59,660 --> 00:31:03,420
to put our relationship even as bad as it sounds

477
00:31:03,420 --> 00:31:05,340
above our kids because that's the best gift

478
00:31:05,340 --> 00:31:07,420
we can give them is a strong marriage

479
00:31:07,420 --> 00:31:10,380
and a strong partnership when it comes to parenting.

480
00:31:11,820 --> 00:31:16,300
Yeah, there's a, I really, I mean, the way you said that and lose,

481
00:31:16,300 --> 00:31:21,060
lose each other, which seems, uh, seems, it seems strange.

482
00:31:21,060 --> 00:31:25,300
Like you're in such close proximity to each other as, as parents and living in

483
00:31:25,300 --> 00:31:28,700
the same home. Um, it seems like it'd be like, well,

484
00:31:28,700 --> 00:31:32,660
the last thing that you would do is would be lose, losing each other, but, um,

485
00:31:32,660 --> 00:31:37,220
it, it absolutely happens when there's, there's so many conversations.

486
00:31:37,220 --> 00:31:41,340
I know Andy, you've probably experienced it too, where I just,

487
00:31:41,340 --> 00:31:46,520
where you stop and you go, when is the last time that we sat down and number one had a

488
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,320
conversation that wasn't about our children?

489
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:51,960
Let's just try that.

490
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:53,460
And it wasn't reactive.

491
00:31:53,460 --> 00:31:57,440
Like it wasn't a reactive conversation of like, oh, this thing happened today and we

492
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:02,900
got to adjust or we got to, you know, whatever or and actually had them, you know, it's easy

493
00:32:02,900 --> 00:32:09,560
to get busy in the life and just have like, like those investment, those investment conversations.

494
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:17,320
And you know, and I'm assuming Norm that, you know, Tara, you know, she's got a full

495
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:18,320
plate all day.

496
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:22,600
She's got a lot of things that she's working through as well.

497
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:29,320
And you know, it's, you've reached every one of us, she's been doing all of her stuff

498
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:31,120
by her, you know, by herself.

499
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:33,200
You've been doing your things.

500
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,480
And we, it's so easy at the end of the day.

501
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,280
I know I'm numerous times guilty of it,

502
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:39,980
mostly because the moment we get home,

503
00:32:39,980 --> 00:32:43,540
it's like, hey, we're off to the next thing sometimes.

504
00:32:43,540 --> 00:32:48,640
It's just easy to not ground ourselves back

505
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,360
kind of together to make that contact point,

506
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:53,680
just like you were saying in the midst of it,

507
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:57,440
and just to kind of keep being alone together,

508
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,200
so to speak at the end of the day.

509
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,320
So those are good words,

510
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,380
important things to think about.

511
00:33:04,380 --> 00:33:13,500
So, Norm, as you guys are on this journey and you're still early on the journey, I

512
00:33:13,500 --> 00:33:19,700
think about some other families that I know who have between a special needs child and

513
00:33:19,700 --> 00:33:22,860
just knowing the age of your boys in general.

514
00:33:22,860 --> 00:33:28,660
You're not super far in.

515
00:33:28,660 --> 00:33:33,380
There's a lot of parenting and a lot of things that are left ahead.

516
00:33:33,380 --> 00:33:39,900
When you think about your dreams for your boys, for your kids, like what the future

517
00:33:39,900 --> 00:33:47,240
could hold for them, what does that look like?

518
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,380
What do those conversations look like?

519
00:33:49,380 --> 00:33:51,980
Do you and Tara...

520
00:33:51,980 --> 00:33:56,340
I know it feels like sometimes my wife and I, we have these powwows about like, we'll

521
00:33:56,340 --> 00:34:00,340
observe, like, kind of like scientists, we'll observe our kids doing the things that they

522
00:34:00,340 --> 00:34:04,960
do academically in sports, kind of in their relationships. And then we sit down and we

523
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:10,720
go, okay, do we feel like there's a trajectory here, good or bad or whatever that we're noticing

524
00:34:10,720 --> 00:34:16,840
and then do what are what are the interventions? If any, what are the encouragements? But yeah,

525
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:23,260
just just what where you see the where you see the future and obviously we're not we're

526
00:34:23,260 --> 00:34:26,960
not we don't get so invested in the future that that becomes our worry and that we're

527
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:30,920
like we're not living in the present as you've said, but in terms of dreaming for the future

528
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:34,440
of your kids, what does that look like?

529
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:39,800
Yeah, I think, I mean, Tara would honestly have some really good answers for this because

530
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:47,880
she is someone who is always thinking about the future and thinking about what's next.

531
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:53,840
And I'm someone who's just really, you know, content with living right now.

532
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,560
Sometimes Tara would tell you it's for the worst.

533
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:57,400
(laughing)

534
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:58,240
- Sometimes.

535
00:34:58,240 --> 00:35:03,600
But really, it's very different for both boys.

536
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:08,680
For Braden, we know that there's gonna be a lifelong need

537
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:12,680
there for care for him, and we hope to be there for him.

538
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:18,840
It's something that as I think about my health,

539
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:20,560
and I'm about to enter 40 as well,

540
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:22,560
I'm just about a year and a half from that.

541
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,800
And I'm not content with where I am health-wise.

542
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:28,320
And it's like, I've got to do some different things

543
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,440
because I want to be healthy as I take care of him.

544
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:33,600
I want to be healthy into, well,

545
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:35,880
into my advanced stages of life

546
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:39,080
as I consider how to take care of him.

547
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:43,200
And for Landon, the sky is the limit for this kid.

548
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,000
I mean, he is so bright.

549
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:46,640
He was doing division in first grade.

550
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:48,840
I taught him one time the concept of division.

551
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:50,520
And he was just doing it.

552
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,240
He's got like an engineering mindset

553
00:35:53,240 --> 00:35:56,920
And so someday I hope he's taking care of us, honestly.

554
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:58,440
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

555
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:00,160
No pressure, son, but seriously, get your act together.

556
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:02,840
- Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.

557
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:07,840
So no, honestly, I just wanna see him begin to dream

558
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:13,520
as well for himself and begin to realize some

559
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:16,560
of his own goals and learn how to make those goals.

560
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:20,840
And so yeah, whatever we can do to be there

561
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:22,320
in the process, that's--

562
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:29,600
Yeah. Norm, and I won't even wonder like for Braden, like, is there goal setting there

563
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:33,880
for you guys? I mean, is that is what is that look like? Because that's obviously a very

564
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:42,400
different process. But at the same time, I would imagine that there are milestones that

565
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:47,360
you're looking that you're looking to make. And there's some, you know, goals and may

566
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:53,360
maybe various categories. I'm curious to hear from you and just how that works for you guys.

567
00:36:53,360 --> 00:37:01,760
Yeah. Oh, man. That's such a hard thing because when he first got his diagnosis,

568
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:10,080
we didn't know what that meant. He was one. He was just starting to learn how to sit up at that

569
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:15,680
point. He was... And he could walk for a while before he was wheelchair bound. And now,

570
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:24,360
know, he can't even really take one step forward. And so if we look at the physical, you know,

571
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:28,960
his physical body, there's so many things that feel like not, not progress, you know,

572
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:34,200
the opposite of progress, like, like there's regression there. And yet most of our goals

573
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:41,440
around Braden are about surrounding him with people who love him, who, who he genuinely

574
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:50,580
feels like care for him. And so we do have goals. He has an IEP at school. He does physical

575
00:37:50,580 --> 00:37:56,280
therapy, occupational therapy. And so we do set goals for what he can do physically, what

576
00:37:56,280 --> 00:38:02,040
his mind is doing. But really the goals, and I think it's probably good for both of our

577
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:09,920
boys to have this goal, is that they would feel something from us, feel something from

578
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:16,720
growing up. Often the memories that we have, that we create, aren't so much the physical

579
00:38:16,720 --> 00:38:22,960
things that you do, but how you felt during those things. And so for both of our boys,

580
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:30,920
we just want them to go into adulthood feeling like they were cared for. Like we did everything

581
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:36,720
we could. One of my hopes, one of my goals is that they wouldn't have to spend too much

582
00:38:36,720 --> 00:38:41,840
money in therapy. They're 20s and 30s from the mistakes that we made.

583
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:51,440
But really, one of our greatest goals of parenting, and I learned this from another pastor,

584
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:58,080
is that when our boys are grown, that they would desire to be near one another, that they would

585
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:02,080
desire to come back together with one another, that they would have that sort of relationship

586
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:09,760
with each other and with us. And there's a lot of work to do there. But honestly, that's the

587
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:14,960
biggest goal that we have for them is that they love one another and love us in a way that

588
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,760
the desire to be together is not a chore to get together.

589
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:28,640
That's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah, there's just a really important... I love what you said about

590
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:37,680
a goal for surrounding your kids with a community. I think that's, we would all say yes and amen to

591
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:43,200
that. But like really thinking about the intention, you know, the intention of that. We have felt,

592
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:49,040
we have felt so fortunate and blessed in our lives because we've had, you know, Andy and Julie,

593
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:53,440
and we've had, you know, two other couples, Brian and Kim and Matt and Courtney, there's the four

594
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:58,480
of us four couples that for the past 16 years, I really raised our kids together. I've had

595
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:04,720
lots of time to get. Oh my gosh, lots of times. The major, like a significant,

596
00:40:04,720 --> 00:40:10,240
significant loss, significant grief, significant ups, ups and downs. But, but I,

597
00:40:10,240 --> 00:40:16,240
you know, I think to myself, it's like boy, oh boy, though, my kids get to see a community

598
00:40:16,240 --> 00:40:20,960
like that. And then that kind of sets the, like sets the bar for them, you know, which, which,

599
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:27,920
you know, I certainly hope that, that, uh, that the friends that they have in those,

600
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:32,720
in those couples, because when we get together now, there's a lot of kids, all 15 of them together,

601
00:40:32,720 --> 00:40:36,720
which is like, feels like we're, you know, it's like a pot. It's like a Baptist potluck. Uh,

602
00:40:36,720 --> 00:40:44,560
we, uh, but just as you said, Norm, like my hope would be that they would, that that community,

603
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:48,240
that they would know that they are loved, that they are, and actually for us to be actually

604
00:40:48,240 --> 00:40:52,080
somewhat strategic really about surrounding them with that resource.

605
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:55,760
Andrew, that was just beautifully said. That was really, that's just a,

606
00:40:55,760 --> 00:41:03,360
like it's a simple yet very profound thing, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Well, Andy, are we,

607
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:09,440
are we to the, because Norm answered everything so beautifully and it's just been like this very

608
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:14,800
like intense reflective thing. We also now have to do the fun stuff. Oh yeah. Now it's time for

609
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:19,200
dudes and dads. Pop quiz. Thank you, Aaron James. All right. All right. All right. So the pop quiz is

610
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:24,640
anytime we just ask our guests random questions that have nothing to do with the topic and they

611
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:29,040
can't prepare for it. You know, normally when we do this topics Joel, we give them a little bit of

612
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:33,120
rundown what we're going to do like on the topic wise. We don't do that for the pop quiz. Absolutely

613
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:40,320
not. Just give them a random question. That's correct. With that, I will go ahead and ask you

614
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:42,120
What is your favorite gadget?

615
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:45,420
Oh, my favorite gadget.

616
00:41:45,420 --> 00:41:50,120
Well, I'm not really a gadget guy, but

617
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:56,760
one of the things that have, it's not really a gadget, but it's really

618
00:41:56,760 --> 00:42:00,220
intrigued me is, you know, we just did get a new van and

619
00:42:00,220 --> 00:42:03,560
it connects automatically with my phone.

620
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:04,580
I've never had that.

621
00:42:04,580 --> 00:42:06,840
I've never owned a vehicle past 2007.

622
00:42:07,240 --> 00:42:10,640
And as soon as I get in and I push my profile, like it's all there.

623
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:12,440
It's beautiful, isn't it? Oh, gosh.

624
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:13,840
Yeah. It's such a wonder.

625
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:16,540
And it starts to play whatever I was listening to on Spotify last.

626
00:42:16,540 --> 00:42:19,840
And it's just a great thing, which was definitely the dudes and dads podcast.

627
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:20,840
Well done.

628
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:22,840
Well done.

629
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:24,240
Yes.

630
00:42:24,240 --> 00:42:27,640
Okay. Here now.

631
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:31,340
This is a risk because in case Tara ends up listening to this episode,

632
00:42:31,340 --> 00:42:32,840
this could go either way.

633
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:35,840
In a zombie apocalypse norm,

634
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:43,440
Who dies first? You or Tara? Oh, me 100%. Yeah. That's not even a question.

635
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:46,960
Okay. So tell us. So why do you think she has the upper hand on this?

636
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:52,480
I don't know if you guys are any gram type. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. We're deep. Yes. Deepen.

637
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:57,520
So I'm an, I'm an any gram nine. She's an any a gram one. Yeah. Yes. So she's absolutely gonna win.

638
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:04,320
I get it. Yeah. She's got, she's got all the exits marked even before like I even know where we're at.

639
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:06,920
She, yeah, she's got a plan.

640
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:10,480
She's got a plan for every possible scenario that could go wrong.

641
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:12,560
She's probably got one for the zombie apocalypse.

642
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:15,080
Okay, we're looking for when you get home tonight, you need to ask her.

643
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:17,000
Yeah, we want to see what's there.

644
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:18,640
Zombie apocalypse plan.

645
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:21,760
All right. So I see behind you that there's a bookshelf.

646
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,680
What book belongs on everybody's bookshelf?

647
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:26,880
Oh, there we go.

648
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:30,040
Oh, my goodness. What book belongs in not everybody?

649
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:31,520
Not at all. You know, let's say the Bible.

650
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:32,360
We'll just take that.

651
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,360
Let's say the Bible. Oh, that's a good one, though.

652
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:36,640
Yeah, it is, but it's obvious. So.

653
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:41,160
So OK, can we do confession time for a second?

654
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:43,640
Yeah, absolutely. Four here for.

655
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:48,400
Um, I'm so I'm not much of a reader outside of like ministry books.

656
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:52,440
And so it's hard to say a book that should be on everybody's bookshelf,

657
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:55,800
because I haven't read that many books outside of ministry books.

658
00:43:55,800 --> 00:44:02,480
And, you know, every single one I've tried to start, I have not finished, basically.

659
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:09,360
So, but I am, I am listening through for any leaders out there.

660
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:10,920
I'm listening through Brene Brown.

661
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:13,040
I listen to books more than I read them.

662
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:15,200
Listen to some Brene Brown right now, Dare to Lead.

663
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:18,840
And that is just so, so challenging for me.

664
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:21,000
Talking about vulnerability and leadership and stuff.

665
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,360
And so, yeah, so good.

666
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:24,880
Bingo, mango.

667
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:26,880
OK, Norm.

668
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:29,440
Let's, let's see here.

669
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:33,280
You're you're you're on an airplane.

670
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:39,600
And you are next to a fellow, you know, a fellow passenger.

671
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:44,440
And they ask you would be as you would fellow passenger.

672
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:48,200
It's no empty unless you're in those tiny little airplanes that have the one C.

673
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:48,800
No, MTC.

674
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:55,480
Next to the person next to you and the person asks you what do you do for a living

675
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:59,800
in his succinct way as possible?

676
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:02,600
Well, badly explain your job to us.

677
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:09,720
Badly explain my job. Oh, that's hard.

678
00:45:09,720 --> 00:45:14,040
Badly explain my job. I.

679
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:20,120
I I perform stand up weekly.

680
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:36,020
Yep. Religious. I badly perform bad religious stand up on a weekly basis. And one could

681
00:45:36,020 --> 00:45:42,320
argue, don't get directly paid for that. That's like, it's the stand up part is it's like,

682
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:44,880
yes, that's for free. That's a free, that's a freebie, right?

683
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:47,760
Depending. Absolutely. Got you. Okay. All right.

684
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:51,120
All right, Norm, if you had to teach a class on one thing, what would you teach?

685
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:55,040
Oh man.

686
00:45:55,040 --> 00:46:04,400
See, one would have to feel like they were actually an expert in something to desire to teach one thing.

687
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:08,720
Okay, so make up something that you would ditch.

688
00:46:08,720 --> 00:46:14,160
Okay, make up something I would teach. Honestly, I would love to teach history. Okay.

689
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:19,600
I love the idea of history. I'm not a history buff, but every time I hear or learn of history,

690
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:23,760
I love it. So like high school history would be like, yeah, I think that'd be fun.

691
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:24,240
Okay.

692
00:46:24,240 --> 00:46:25,200
Julie, your last question.

693
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:29,120
My last question. Thank you so much. Norm, please tell us about your most embarrassing

694
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:30,400
youth group experience.

695
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:30,720
Oh.

696
00:46:30,720 --> 00:46:34,000
Like when I was in youth group or when I was leaving youth group?

697
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:39,920
Whenever. You and I either won. Either won. I'm just looking for deep embarrassment. Either way.

698
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:42,960
Deep embarrassment. Oh my gosh.

699
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:49,360
Okay. So this wasn't terribly embarrassing, but it could have gotten me into a lot of trouble.

700
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:56,560
Oh, even better. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So back in the old cell phone days, when you used to do like

701
00:46:56,560 --> 00:47:04,320
the T9 texting, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I texted all of our students and parents

702
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:10,160
that were all going on a retreat. And it should have been an email. It was like one of those

703
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:18,160
really big block texts on T9. It took so long to write. And as I was after I sent the message,

704
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:22,120
a parent responded back with just simply "Bring what?"

705
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:27,160
Question mark explanation, you know, and I went back and re-read my text and it was,

706
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:31,880
I intended to say, "To bring your bed and shower linens."

707
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:35,280
And the T9 somehow changed it to "Bring your beer and shower linens."

708
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:36,280
Oh, wow.

709
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:37,280
And, um...

710
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:42,000
What kind of camp are they going to?

711
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:43,000
Yeah.

712
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:44,000
Clearly reformed.

713
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:45,000
Clearly reformed church.

714
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:46,000
Yeah, clearly, clearly.

715
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:47,000
I'm so glad that.

716
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:50,000
I'm so glad that none of my students took me up on that.

717
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:52,240
(laughing)

718
00:47:52,240 --> 00:47:53,640
That I know of anyway.

719
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:54,960
(laughing)

720
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:56,560
- I would feel embarrassed about that.

721
00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:57,400
- Yeah, that's embarrassing.

722
00:47:57,400 --> 00:47:58,760
- That's reasonably, yeah, it's a little embarrassing.

723
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:00,040
- Yeah, it's a little embarrassing.

724
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:01,240
- That's super funny.

725
00:48:01,240 --> 00:48:03,000
Hey Norm, congratulations.

726
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,860
You have successfully passed the dudes and dads pop quiz.

727
00:48:06,860 --> 00:48:08,240
Well done, well done.

728
00:48:08,240 --> 00:48:09,080
- Thank you.

729
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:10,680
- If we had an award, we'd give it to you, but we don't.

730
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:12,120
Now this is a low budget operation.

731
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:12,960
(cheering)

732
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:14,320
Oh, there it is, okay.

733
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:15,480
(cheering)

734
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:16,440
- That is reward enough.

735
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:18,800
- Right, the claps from all of our studio audience.

736
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:23,800
- The claps, that's our new AI function, the claps.

737
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:26,440
They're cutting edge, cutting edge.

738
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:29,480
Oh gosh, Norm, thanks for coming on.

739
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:30,880
Thanks for hanging out with us.

740
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:32,500
Thanks for sharing.

741
00:48:32,500 --> 00:48:35,280
Just at a personal level, Norm,

742
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:37,560
I'm just so grateful for the ministry that you're doing.

743
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:39,560
I'm grateful for the investment that you've made

744
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:43,920
not only in my life, but in the lives of other people.

745
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:49,400
even though you and I are a distance away and we don't see each other nearly as

746
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:51,760
much as I would like to. I'm just super grateful for you.

747
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:55,280
So I just want to let you know and say that in front of the bajillion people

748
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:56,120
they're listening right now.

749
00:48:56,120 --> 00:49:03,680
And make sure we say also Tara, thanks for giving Norm some time. That's nice.

750
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:07,200
Yeah, it's always good. Appreciate it. Well, hey everybody,

751
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:11,680
as always can head over to dudesanddadspodcast.com for all the show notes.

752
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:16,340
We're going to make norm embarrassingly easy to find over there with the social

753
00:49:16,340 --> 00:49:19,800
medias and all of that. So hey, feel free to check it out and any of our other

754
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:24,600
episodes. And if you have feedback, you can email feedback, add dudes and dads

755
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:29,480
podcast or 57421380702 is our voicemail number.

756
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:33,040
We love hearing you guys. We do. Leave us a leave us an audio message.

757
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:38,440
Guys, it's been another great time spending this little segment of your day

758
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:45,160
with you with us. Thanks for hanging out. We wish you all the best. And until next time, we wish you grace and peace.

759
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:47,740
(upbeat music)

760
00:49:47,740 --> 00:49:56,020
[Music]