John Diehl: [00:00:01] Hi, I'm John. [00:00:02][0.8]

Julie Genjac: [00:00:02] and I'm Julie. [00:00:03][1.3]

John Diehl: [00:00:04] We're the hosts of the Hartford Funds human centric investing podcast. [00:00:08][3.4]

Julie Genjac: [00:00:09] Every other week. We're talking with inspiring thought leaders to hear their best ideas for how you can transform your relationships with your clients. [00:00:18][8.7]

John Diehl: [00:00:19] Let's go. [00:00:19][0.3]

John Diehl: I've worked with Nannette for a long time, but never would I have guessed that I'd expect to see her pick up, pick up a guitar and start playing in a band. Right, so it's but what's always

amazing to me, Julie. I don't know if you've experienced this or not.

I think some of the most creative, some of the most intelligent people I've met are also have an amazing musical talent. Now that should be saying something about me because other than when I played clarinet or saxophone in elementary school, I have zero musical talent, so I always admire people that do. [00:02:38][36.1]

Julie Genjac: [00:02:40] I wholeheartedly agree. I was. I was going

to laugh and say, Well, that I am not intelligent or creative because I have zero singing voice. And what what our conversation about music led me to think about was the importance of sounding boards in our life. I think I sound phenomenal. I love to sing, and I think everything that comes out of my mouth is just spot on. But the sounding boards will tell me in a very open, honest conversation is I'm so bad. I make the people around me sound bad. So please zip it. So I think that again, in all seriousness, seriousness, though personally, professionally, those people that we can engage to bounce ideas off that will share with us feedback, even if it's not exactly what we want to hear, but it's what we need to hear. I do think that also helps keeps us balanced and as high functioning of people and professionals as we can possibly be.[00:03:37][56.8]

Julie Genjac: [00:08:53] We're so excited to welcome Nanette, Oberhof, Jacobson today. She's managing director and multi-asset strategist at Wellington Management Company and global investment strategist for Hartford Funds. With over twenty five years of

experience in the capital markets. Nanette has held a variety of roles spanning the major asset classes as the global investment strategist. She analyzes and interprets markets and investment opportunities for those mutual funds that are sub-advised by Wellington Management Company. And shares those views with Hartford Fund Sales Organization, the financial professional community and major broker dealers and distributors. She also advises Wellington Management's institutional clients, including pension funds, insurance companies, endowments and foundations and central banks, consulting on strategic asset allocation issues to develop multi asset investment solutions. Welcome, Nanette. [00:09:53][60.8]

Nanette Jacobson: [00:11:48] Thank you, Julie, it's a pleasure to be here. [00:11:50][2.0]

Julie Genjac: [00:11:52] Before we dove into a lot of the questions that I know so many are hoping to hear, hear your thoughts on today. I'm curious, obviously, having heard you present and speak over so many years and articulate, really complex topics in such an easy to understand way. What led you to your profession today? How did you get started and how do we have the pleasure of being here with you today? [00:12:17][25.1]

Nanette Jacobson: [00:12:19] Wow. Well, thank you, Julie. I appreciate the question because it makes me reflect and think about like, how did I get here and what was the path? So a couple of things. First of all, you know, from my bio that my background is computer science. And so I definitely have a penchant for the geeky stuff, like analyzing data and figuring out what it all means. So

there's that part of my brain. And then there's the other part, which is that I love communicating. And so being able to communicate dense, analytical topics in a clear, understandable, accessible way is

really creative for me, and I love doing it. So that's one piece of the second piece is that I come from a family of teachers. Both my

mom and my dad were teachers, my dad at the college level, and my mom taught in the public school system. Fifth graders for thirty five years. So I think I have that little bit of teacher in me, which is maybe a genetic trait. I don't know. [00:13:40][81.4]

John Diehl: [00:13:44] Well, then it's great to see you again, by the way. Question I have for you, as you mentioned teaching and often times when we're teaching, we're talking about things that have already happened. Right. But you're in this unique role of not only reflecting back, but oftentimes I'm sure the questions you get are where do we go from here? And so if I could ask you just to think about client portfolios for a moment and reflect back on where we've

been over the last year or so or maybe even longer? And where do you see things going from here? What should financial professionals have on their minds as we get ready to enter a new year and be thinking about, you know, kind of where portfolios are positioned these days? [00:14:27][42.8]

Nanette Jacobson: [00:14:29] So first, thank you, John, it's great to see you again. And let me start by a quick flashback to this past year, which has been remarkable because we have, from an economic standpoint, come out of the depths of the terrible, terrible health crisis and recession, and we've come back with flying colors in most parts of the economy. But I would say that all of the measures that policy implemented, the fiscal measures, the monetary measures really did support the economy tremendously in a crisis that was a

completely exogenous event, a pandemic. No one could have prepared for that. But we've come through it, you know, relatively quickly. And consumer demand is coming back. The unemployment rate is coming down. You know, we're headed toward we're around four and a half percent now, just coming up to an employment report. And so, you know, the economic backdrop has been incredibly good. Now the other thing is that even while there have been dealt a variance, we have had some hiccups along the way. Granted, but markets really haven't

stopped hitting records. We've had momentary slips in equity markets, but generally it's been an incredible year, with returns so far

around 25 percent in the US equity markets and not far from that in non-U.S. markets as well. So to your question, what do we do now? You know, I can't talk about the future without bringing in a key risk which we're dealing with right now, which is a new variant called Micron. And we at as we're sitting here right now, we have so little data to analyze. We need to respect the fact that this could be a

risk to the recovery not only in the United States, but all over the world. Hopefully, we will find in a week or so more about the contagion and, more importantly, the virulence of the disease, because we really don't know if this particular variant could escape vaccine effectiveness, and that is really key. this variant will not derail the economic recovery and that markets in equities and non

global equities will continue to do well and continue to benefit from the liquidity in the system. The accommodative stance by the Federal Reserve, the fiscal support and consumer very strong consumer demand. Now the one and I know you'll get to this, John, but I will put one caveat out there, which is inflation, which we really were not thinking about a year ago. So let me leave it there and turn it back to you. [00:18:24][234.7]

John Diehl: [00:18:26] Well, yeah, and I guess then I guess I think about it, you know, it seems that long ago we were talking about the risks of deflation, but now we're talking about inflation. And I guess my question is for for folks that have been around the markets

for quite a while when markets start setting new highs and new highs, new highs, even if we don't boldly say so, I think there's a little part in the back of our mind that says, should we be waiting for that next shoe to drop? And I guess my question to you, man, it is, as you consider inflation going into next year, is that the other shoe

that's going to drop or is it something that you think we just have to be more cognizant of and perhaps, you know, shift allocations in some way? Or how do we deal with this? How big of a problem is it in your mind at this point? [00:19:14][47.5]

Nanette Jacobson: [00:19:16] Right. Well, I'm sure all of us have experienced some form of supply chain disruption. You ordered something and you thought it was going to come in a few days and it's taken months and months. I can give you a big list of items on my shopping list that have been delayed for months. So, you know, the causes of inflation are twofold. One is these supply chain disruptions, which are coming from very high prices and commodities. It's coming from labor shortages and also the issues of the freight issues that we're having at ports all over the world, which have either shut down because of COVID or are just incredibly congested.

And so that's the supply side. The demand side is that consumers are, you know, they're back in force and they want to buy stuff and they want to do stuff. And so consumer demand is very, very strong right now. So on balance, John, I don't think that inflation is going to, you know, be a shoe, the next shoe that drops. However, when I look

at client portfolios, what what I see is that portfolios are not positioned for inflation particularly well. The assumption is that if I own equities, that should take care of my inflation protection. And I think to some extent it will. If you are in cyclical types of sectors, if you're in businesses that have pricing power and they can and those companies can raise prices and consumers will accept that. But you know, if inflation, which is right now over five percent for the past several months and was just six percent in October, if we're going to be looking at inflation for the next year or so at around five percent, then portfolios need to be positioned quite differently from the way they are right now. [00:21:38][142.1]

Julie Genjac: [00:22:18] Nanette, it's interesting we've only been together for a few minutes today, yet you've mentioned at least a dozen or more variables, obviously, that you're wrapping your arms around every moment of every day and for the financial professionals

with us listening today. I would imagine that that's the world that they're living in. All of these variables, their clients have access to such a velocity of information, namely from these devices. How do you engage your team on a day to day basis to take in all of this information, process it and then make sense of it in order to help guide all of us? I'm thinking that the financial professionals with

us might love to hear some of the tricks of a seasoned expert such as yourself in terms of how you manage the velocity and information flow day in and day out. [00:23:05][46.3]

Nanette Jacobson: I do think it's the biggest challenge that we face because the amount of information flow is just it is and I'll say it, it's overwhelming. And there's no possible way that anyone can cover and absorb the amount of information that's out there. So you know, how I how I do my own job and how the advice that I give

professionals on my team is to really be selective about what you read and figure out where is are the sources of really value added information? And it probably I mean, you can read whatever News Feed you want. I think it's really important to get different points of view. So, you know, I generally I try to read the Financial Times, which has a more global perspective. I read The Wall Street Journal

for us, a perspective and somewhat global. I read Barron's. You know, you have to just immerse yourself in the in the market's narrative.

But then you need to select the, you know, the creators of content that have something different, something unique. Something insightful to say. And just limit yourself to three to five content providers. I really mean that because otherwise you'll just spend all your time reading and never come to any conclusions. You know, at Wellington, I have the good fortune of working with an incredibly talented group of people. And that just creates like just this very rich source of material and non consensus thinking. That's what I always try to encourage. All the team members to do is speak up and speak up, especially if you have a different point of view. [00:25:28][140.7]

John Diehl: [00:25:32] Now that if I could jump back to the conversation, we were just having a moment ago on allocations and obviously growth has ruled the day for years now. But when I hear you talk about potential risks out there, it sounds like you're saying that financial professionals need to at least respect the risks that are out there.

Nanette Jacobson: [00:26:20] Yeah, definitely, John, and I'm glad you didn't leave us on that cliffhanger of inflation, and we got back to it so I could share some thoughts and changes that advisers might consider. So first, I just want to emphasize that I do think we're in

a new regime and it's so easy to attach oneself to the old regime. And you're absolutely right, John. The regime that we're coming out of is one where disinflation, falling prices are strengthening China economy and and also fairly slow growth in the United States and elsewhere which and very low inflation. And so the trades, the

allocations that worked since the financial crisis in 2008 may not be the same allocations that work for the next 10 years. So the allocations that worked in the past 10 years have been growth and technology all the time, every day. And what we started to see happen this year was a rotation from growth into value oriented strategies. And I put value in. I speak to value as a big umbrella. And in that umbrella, I would include traditional value sectors like financials and energy, but also other cyclical sectors like industrials, materials, even deep cyclicals like travel and leisure and in

consumer discretionary. I would also put under that umbrella investments outside the U.S., so specifically European and Japanese equities. And actually, and this was sort of, you know, these have been stealth performers, but Europe has done has been very competitive with the U.S. in equity space. And Japan is starting to pick up also. So underneath the surface, we're seeing this rotation into more cyclical sectors, more sectors that are less sensitive to higher rates. And I'll get back to that and a rotation out of the

U.S. into international equities. And I think it's important to look at your clients portfolios and look at what their exposure is to the old regime, which was slow growth and low inflation, and how that portfolio was set up for the new regime, which is stronger growth and higher inflation. So part of that calculus is to change, modify your equity exposures. But the other part, John, is to look at an asset class and sector weights in the commodity sector, which is going to

be most sensitive to an increase in inflation. Now in that bucket, it could be straight commodities. Obviously, that's not for everyone because they come with a lot of volatility. But it could be natural resource commodities, equities, miners, and it could even be in inflation linked bonds like TIPS. So lots of things to review and look at and to discuss with clients. [00:30:26][246.6]

Julie Genjac: [00:30:29] Then at a moment ago, you called it a health crisis, and I love how you phrased that as opposed to the global pandemic or some of the other words that have been maybe more frequently used. My my personal mantra during so much of this time has been structured yet flexible. I know there oxymorons, but I sort

of feel like that's the world that we're all living in and especially financial professionals as they talk to their clients. From your perspective, what are one or two themes or areas that might most surprise clients in twenty twenty two? And how might financial

professionals start having those conversations now in order to combat those surprised situations in twenty twenty two? [00:31:10][40.8]

Nanette Jacobson: [00:31:12] Yeah. So thanks for that question, Julie, I do think that what financial advisers will find when they look at their clients portfolios is a concentration in the mega cap stocks and mega tech stocks. And I'm not saying that you should get

rid of that exposure. I still think that having growth exposure makes sense, but you at least want to make sure that your clients

portfolios are exposed to a different environment than we've been in. Again, moving from a slow growth, low inflation environment to a stronger growth, higher inflation environment. And the problem with all that concentration and growth and tech is that if yields rise.

Those sectors are likely not going to perform very well. And we've seen this in various episodes. And the reason is that the multiples, the valuations that are supporting those companies are really based

on earnings that look out 10, 20, 30 years and almost like a bond. If you are paying a multiple based on those future cash flows and then discount them at a higher yield, the value of those cash flows are going to go down. So that is the idea behind tech stocks and growth stocks acting more like a bond than other equities. And so, you know, my advice is just to make sure that you've got balance in your portfolio because inflation really could surprise both to the upside and be more persistent than the markets think. [00:33:09][117.0]

John Diehl: [00:33:12] Well, then given given that outlook, let's kind of change gears a little bit in the portfolio and look at fixed income, so obviously fixed income remains an important part of the average client portfolio. But would you be setting expectations differently with clients as we head into next year, given what you just said about the risk of inflation and rising rates? And then secondly, for the financial professionals out there as they review fixed income positions, kind of what are you recommending now that people take a look at in the fixed income area? [00:33:45][33.1]

Nanette Jacobson: [00:33:47] Yeah, you may see my gears turning in my brain because fixed income is not the most popular asset class these days. You know, not. We saw yields go up this year. Not terrific returns. But what you can see is that returns to shorter duration sectors did better. So my thoughts for the future and fixed income is no one remembered the role that fixed income plays. So even though yields are low, they still do provide some diversification benefit relative to equities. So if we suffer a major setback in the equity market, I would still expect high quality fixed income to do better than equities, and that's all we can ask for. When yields are one and

a half percent or lower. So you have some allocation to high quality fixed income that will cushion any sell off that we have in the equity markets. Number two, since we're in an environment where growth looks to be, you know, fairly robust, the I certainly would include credit instruments and my fixed income portfolio. But specifically with an eye toward valuations. So, for instance, a lot of spreads right now are very tight. But I do think that default rates are going to stay low. And so, you know, there is a terrific value in credit. But to the extent that interest rates are rising because growth is strong, spreads should be fine and maybe even

tighten a little bit. And then the third piece of the third insight I have is to look at floating rate structures. So these are going to perform better as the Fed embarks on. Beginning to hike rates. So we haven't talked much about the Fed, but they've already signaled that they are going to start tapering their bond purchases and sometime in 2022 hiking rates. And because that affects the short end of the

yield curve most that will probably benefit floating rate instruments that are pegged to a short term benchmark. So just to summarize, that keeps some allocation to high quality fixed income have some spread exposure for return and focus on floating rate credit. And I would be remiss if I left at munis. I think municipal bonds play a very specific role, particularly in individuals portfolios that need some kind of tax relief and muni bonds are about one of the few games left in town. So to provide attractive tax adjusted returns, I still think munis play an important role. [00:37:23][215.5]

Julie Genjac: [00:37:27] Thanks, Nanette, for that guidance, and I'm confident that the financial professionals with us today certainly appreciate that and narrowing that list of conversation topics, at least in the near term with clients. I know that one of the most frequent inbound emails and calls that I receive from financial professionals is around how the health crisis over the last 20 or 21 months has obviously changed systems and processes and the way that we communicate so significantly and in so many ways, it was almost unimaginable. I'm curious for you and your team. How has the remote

work setup changed the way you communicate? What impact has it had on you and and what are your thoughts on on that process going forward? [00:38:21][53.7]

Nanette Jacobson: [00:38:25] Yeah. No, I think that, of course, working from home has been a huge change. The good news is that from

a productivity standpoint, we have really not missed a beat. In fact, I would say we're all maybe more productive working from home. You know, if you have the benefit of not being distracted by so many things that could be distracting from the lawn mower to, you know,

pets. But I think, you know, the thing that I've tried to be more aware of is what's going on in people's lives. And when you're in the office and you have more spontaneous interactions with with people, it's easier to know what's going on and, you know, at home or in someone's life or something they're struggling with. It's a lot

harder to do that remotely. And so I try I don't do a good enough job, but I do try to reach out to people separately from work topics and just see how people are doing and how they're managing and if they're facing any challenges. Because I did have a case of someone

where a colleague, he wasn't returning my emails. And, you know, when you start thinking like, what's going on? And then it turns out there was a problem, a health problem in his family. And I didn't know

about it. And he wasn't that upfront about sharing it, but certainly came at our relationship differently once I understood that. So, you know, I think it requires outreach and sensitivity. [00:40:21][115.4]

Julie Genjac: I think focusing on the people side of your team, especially during this time, is is so important and probably has been a great reminder for all of us that, you know, we're talking about whether it's our background that we're seeing on video or trying to replace what I call the the doorjamb holding the cup of coffee conversation that we used to have and we all took for granted. I

think it's so important, especially as we we approach year end and that reflective time of year or so. I love that guidance. Nanette, thank you for sharing that. [00:41:04][31.6]

Nanette Jacobson: to the extent that you can take a walk outside with somebody, you know, I don't know what everyone's situation is at at work or but I've been doing that where either the couple, if there are days that I am at work, I make sure that I schedule coffees or lunches with people. And if I'm at home, I reach out to people in my neighborhood to ask them if they want to take a walk. And that I think we all crave relationship. So anything that you can do to nurture that, I think is a good thing. [00:41:43][36.7]

John Diehl: [00:41:46] So on a related topic, then it's kind of an informal question, I like to ask a lot of people, but where would you say you do your best thinking? We talked earlier about being surrounded by information and you know, I've visited the war room at Wellington multiple times, as I'm sure many of the financial professionals listening have, where there's all kinds of opinions and outlooks and insight. But do you do you do your best thinking in the midst of that data or are there other things you do where you have those aha moments? Because I think it's important for all of us to think about how we think and where we think. [00:42:21][35.2]

Nanette Jacobson: [00:42:23] Yeah, it's a great question, John, and

so my experience is that you need to let your brain rest and you need to have space to think creatively and think outside the box. So and whatever that is, you know, we could be on a run exercising. For me, music is a great escape. And so it's either listening to music or actually making music. And I find that it's a great way to just completely again use different parts of my brain. And then I find

that that relief just opens up a channels of creativity.

John Diehl: [00:43:41] So Nannette, I have to I have to ask. You mentioned making music? Do tell. Is that something that obviously it's something you do? Let's hear it. [00:43:52][10.3]

Nanette Jacobson: [00:43:54] All right. So I started playing guitar when I was seven years old and I've been singing for as long. And then, you know, life gets in the way. I got married, I had kids and I really. And I was working, you know, intensely for many years. And so I backburner that for quite some time. Recently, well, a few years ago, I decided to pick up my guitar again and and pursue a different style of music. I used to play and sing folk and pop and that those kinds of genres and I've been in a jazz ensemble. So I'm playing jazz guitar, I'm singing jazz standards and, you know, scatting even, dare I say so. And you know, please don't ask for any. Don't ask for any demonstrations. [00:44:56][62.1]

John Diehl: [00:44:59] But it's okay because Jack is a very jolly Jandek is a very, very popular, heavy metal singer. You may not have realized that, but yeah, that's her thing. [00:45:09][10.1]

Nanette Jacobson: [00:45:10] I did not insist that discovery.

[00:45:12][1.8]

Julie Genjac: [00:45:17] If we wanted everyone to log off immediately, I would start singing. That's all I'll say. [00:45:21][4.2]

Nanette Jacobson: [00:45:25] Well, we share a passion that's great to know. [00:45:28][2.4]

John Diehl: [00:45:31] Well Nanette, when we think about that portfolios and the conversations that financial professionals are going to be having with their clients coming up, I mean, this is probably something many of us are thinking about right now, which is what changes do we need to embrace? How do we communicate those to our clients? I may be asking you to rehash a little bit, but if if there's a couple of things you would tell financial professionals to

keep in mind as they approach their clients coming up here in the next month or two? What's one or two things you would tell them is very important to get across? [00:46:07][35.4]

Nanette Jacobson: [00:46:09] Well, the first thing I would do is make sure you set up a meeting with each client and that the purpose of the meeting is to take a step back and to look at your portfolio allocations and to see what those portfolio allocations imply about your view of the economy and markets over the next year or so. And then, you know, tease out of that discussion, oh, this portfolio really is saying that I'm expecting growth to be slow and inflation to continue to be running at two percent. And if that's the case.

Start thinking about ideas, do you want to shorten the duration of your fixed income portfolio? That could be one fairly easy move to do. You want to rotate into some sectors of the equity market that are more cyclical and more value oriented? That could be commodity type exposures or cyclicals or financials or energy. And three. Do you want to own some equities outside of the US? You'll notice I did not include emerging markets. I think there are some deeper issues there for emerging markets to recover from a health standpoint and

infrastructure standpoint, but certainly in other developed economies like Japan and Europe, the there are better valuations and opportunities in the equity markets. And then finally, direct inflation protection, which would be either through commodities or inflation linked bonds. And of course, just overarching

recommendation that I know a lot of strategists say that municipal bonds are expensive, but I still think that they play a very important role for better tax adjusted yields, particularly in an environment when government bond yields are so low.

Julie Genjac: [00:48:30] I know we haven't touched on the institutional work that you do. I'm curious are those conversations that you're having with institutional clients similar to what you're having with private clients and financial professionals? Are there differences? Could you share some insight with us, please, on that topic? [00:48:48][17.4]

Nanette Jacobson: [00:48:49] Yeah, sure. So I would say there are three trends. The first one is definitely more activity on the commodities and inflation protection side. So clients looking for more direct inflation protection through either commodity related

assets or infrastructure, anything that looks like a real asset could be real estate. Also again, so long as the real estate investment is adjusting for higher inflation. So that's one conversation. The

second one is definitely along the lines of ESG. So environmental, social and governance and institutional clients are really, I mean, they're most active overseas. But even in the U.S., there's much, much more focus on moving into strategies that are focused on decarbonization. And then the third trend is in alternatives, where clients, institutional clients continue to look for private investments that will give them superior returns relative to the public markets, which at least from a valuation standpoint, look on the expensive side. [00:50:31][102.1]

John Diehl: [00:50:35] So I can't let you go, Nannette, without asking, because every time I try to read about crypto currencies, I start to get a headache. But I have had more individual clients, some of whom are relative novices in investing. Ask me about crypto in the past six months than probably ever. But, you know, at the same time,

I as a as a financial professional, have a hard time grasping how these things work and how I should think about them. Well, where does Wellington stand on crypto? Is it time that advisors really ought to be thinking about crypto as a as a separate asset class to be allocated to in a typical client portfolio? Are we still too early

for that? How should financial professionals be thinking about it?

[00:51:22][47.3]

Nanette Jacobson: [00:51:24] Yeah, you know, we are looking at what the features are of bitcoin and how it meets the criteria for a separate asset class. I think right now we as a firm are certainly keeping on top of the area and indirectly we are making investments in companies that offer bitcoin as a form of payment or an exchange that is dealing with bitcoin transactions, though we don't have any specific fund that accesses cryptocurrency. My own view is that the technology is fascinating. I do think that the technology will serve a long term purpose. But right now, for any individual, investor or client that an advisor speaking to, I think the first thing you need

to look at is the volatility of the asset class. And we know that the volatility has been upwards of 80 percent annually, 80 to 100 percent in bitcoin. So the first question if a client is interested in cryptocurrency is, can you whether that kind of volatility because

you need to be prepared for that? And because of that volatility and the extent to which cryptocurrency has appreciated this year, I certainly think that it has speculative qualities. And so it's very difficult at this stage to separate what role bitcoin plays in a portfolio because of the extreme volatility and the fact that it has behaved like a speculative asset. So for now, you know, it's all based on your risk tolerance. I do think the technology will evolve and look, you know, regulators are involved, the government is

involved. So that's a sure sign, as any, that the technology has

legs. What form it ultimately takes? I don't know, but it's certainly something that we want to keep a close eye on and and monitor because it's part of the financial landscape and it's a huge innovation which I fully respect. [00:54:03][159.6]

Julie Genjac: [00:54:07] I think that's great guidance, Nanette. Thank you for that. And before we wrap up today, I'm curious, how do you plan to change the way that you work after after the remote work environment that that we've all experienced? As you look forward, I my operative word is to have maybe a more balanced world, whatever that may shake out to be in twenty twenty two. What changes will you make to your systems and processes and communication based upon what you've learned in the past? [00:54:34][27.1]

Nanette Jacobson: [00:54:38] Yeah, I you know, I go back to my comment about relationships and communication. I I have found this past year that the power of the team is so much greater than the sum of the individuals. You just get so much better output and it's

energizing and you end up with a better recommendation if everyone is speaking openly, honestly challenging each other in respectful ways. So I think that would be my parting thought and what I will try to hold on to as we return to the office and have more human interactions, which I'm looking forward to is to just, you know, keep communicating, keep building relationships because the sum of the parts is really not as valuable as the entire team. I may have gotten that expression a little wrong, but I think you know what I mean. [00:55:47][68.8]

John Diehl: [00:58:14] Well, Nanette, those are some great closing thoughts, and I just on behalf of Hartford Funds and all of the financial professionals who are listening or watching to the podcast, Julie and I just want to say thanks for being with us today. Always appreciate the insight. And you've given us a lot to think about, not just about the markets, but also how we relate to one another and maybe how we can all do some of our best thinking in the months to come. [00:58:38][24.5]

Nanette Jacobson: [00:58:41] It's my pleasure, John and Julie, really appreciate being able to share my thoughts and wish all of your clients well and a successful New Year. [00:58:41][0.0]

Julie Genjac: [00:24:37] Thanks for listening to the Hartford Funds. Human Centric Investing podcast, if you'd like to tune in for more episodes. Don't forget to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and follow us on LinkedIn, Twitter or YouTube. [00:24:50][13.4]

John Diehl: [00:24:51] And if you'd like to be a guest and share your best ideas for transforming client relationships, email us a guest booking at Hartford Funds dot com. We'd love to hear from you. [00:25:01][10.2]

Julie Genjac: [00:25:02] Talk to you soon. [00:25:02][0.0]

Spreads are the difference in yields between two fixed-income securities with the same maturity, but originating from different investment sectors.

Duration is a measure of the sensitivity of an investment’s price to nominal

interest-rate movement.

Past performance does not guarantee future results.

Important Risks: Investing involves risk, including the possible loss of principal.

•Fixed-income security risks include credit, liquidity, call, duration, and interest-rate risk. As interest rates rise, bond prices generally fall. •Loans can be difficult to value and less liquid than other types of debt instruments; they are also subject to nonpayment, collateral, bankruptcy, default, extension, prepayment and insolvency risks. •Municipal securities may be adversely impacted by state/local, political, economic, or market conditions. Although municipal securities may be exempt from federal income taxes, investors may be subject to the federal Alternative Minimum Tax as well as state and local income taxes. Capital gains, if any, are taxable. •The value of inflation-protected securities (IPS) generally fluctuates with changes in real interest rates, and the market for IPS may be less developed or liquid, and more volatile, than other securities markets. •Foreign investments may be more volatile and less liquid than US investments and are subject to the risk of currency fluctuations and adverse political, economic and regulatory developments. These risks may be greater, and include additional risks, for investments in emerging markets. •Investments in the commodities market and the natural-resources industry may increase liquidity risk, volatility and risk of loss if adverse developments occur. •Investments focused in specific sectors may be subject to increased volatility and risk of loss if adverse developments occur. •Integration of environmental, social, and/or governance (ESG) factors into the investment process may not work as intended. •Focusing on investments that involve sustainable initiatives may result in foregoing certain investments and underperformance comparative to investments that do not have a similar focus.•Different investment styles may go in and out of favor, which may cause an investment to underperform the broader stock market. •Diversification does not ensure a profit or protect against a loss in a declining market.

The views expressed here are those of Nanette Abuhoff Jacobson and Wellington Management’s Investment Strategy Team. They should not be construed as investment advice. They are based on available information and are subject to change without notice. Portfolio positioning is at the discretion of the individual portfolio management teams; individual portfolio management teams and different fund sub-advisers may hold different views, and may make different investment decisions for different clients or portfolios. This material and/or its contents are current as of the time of writing and may not be reproduced or distributed in whole or in part, for any purpose, without the express written consent of Wellington Management or Hartford Funds.

Mutual funds are distributed by Hartford Funds Distributors, LLC (HFD), Member FINRA. Certain funds are sub-advised by Wellington Management Company LLP. HFD is not affiliated with any fund sub-adviser.

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