Excited to take you around the world to England. We are chatting with Sam

Sethi. He is the CEO of True Fans, and this is a

really, really fascinating platform that is trying to help

podcasters. But it seems like even beyond that now, more than just podcasters

really get compensated for their work. He also does some work with Pod

News, our friend James over there. So, Sam, thank you for joining us today. Hey,

Matthew. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure. So

you've been in the IT industry for a long time. How did you

kinda weave your way into getting interested in the podcasting space?

Oh, through large corporates into startups of my

own. I was running TechCrunch Europe. I,

I then started on the radio, and I I, you know, scratch

an itch. Right? I didn't I'd never done radio. I used

to be Microsoft's professional presenter at the big events they used to do. Hello.

Good morning. Welcome to Microsoft. Let me tell you about the latest version of

Office. It's amazing. That was my job for a while,

and I was a techie. So, when somebody said, let's do radio, I said, well,

yeah. Never done it. Try it. Radio led me

into wanting to interview because of my TechCrunch background

a lot of people. So I was into eating the heads of various

big companies, and that was fun. And that finally led me to doing

a podcast festival with Cara Swisher and James

Cridland and various others. And then

lastly, I said to James, hey. Fancy doing Pod News Weekly together,

a longer version of your Pod News daily? And he said, yeah. And I was

surprised, but I was happy. And 3 years later, here we

are. I mean, you do not waste time.

Kara Swisher is one of the titans of the tech industry. I

used to work with her a little bit when I was over at Dow Jones,

and so that is a fantastic person to have started your

podcasting journey with and then to be working with the amazing James Cridland. I mean,

you're just, swinging for the fences every time, you step up to

the plate. I think I think it's called ignorance. Just ask, and and and they

they just happen to say yes. It was like, great. Thanks.

I love it. The it's sort of the, ask for forgiveness, not

permission, philosophy. Just go for it and see what happens. You'll see

more of that coming up when we talk about True Fans.

Excellent. So tell us exactly how the True

Fans platform came to be and why

this is a platform that podcasters should be paying attention to?

Okay. I really wasn't gonna do one, and then

somebody else approached me to do a branded advertising

based platform. And I was like, no. Not interested. Not interested. And then, actually,

I got into podcasting 2.0, listening to Adam and Dave

on the Podcast Index show, and I was like, this is

quite interesting because of my technical background. I like tinkering.

So started to add things, and then it was like, oh, you know

what? This is really cool. And then the more and more I got into it,

the more and more I wanted to do my own thing, so I did.

And today, yeah, we are the number one platform

that supports most, if not all, the podcasting 2.0

tags. We are pushing the boundaries of what I think

podcasting is, because I think there's so much more

to come from podcasting, but I think, you know, you have to get to

the bleeding edge of it and then pull back from it a little bit to

allow people to catch you up. But we're at the bleeding edge right now, and

it's great fun. For those who don't really

understand, what is podcasting 2 point o? What are some

of the features that are starting to really

power podcasting or I should say, like, really supercharge

podcasting now? Well, first of all, it's not a unicorn. It's not a

mythical creature. It is actually very simple. It's just taking

what is podcasting and trying to fix some basic

problems. I think there's 3 basic problems,

discovery, interactivity, and monetization.

Discovery is not, you know, I want to be Joe Rogan.

No one's discovered me. No. Discovery is I've got a brand new podcast. How do

I get out of the 4,000,000 people who've produced another

podcast and at least get above the parapet and a 100 people to hear me

or a 1000 people to hear me? And so discovery is

1. Interactivity, how do I leave a comment back to

the creator if I'm the listener, and monetization

beyond just advertising or host read ads or DAI. So

with discovery, the first couple of tags are really cool. The person tag,

hey. I don't know what Matthew looked like. Now I've got an image of him

with the person tag in the RSS feed, and that's displayed

in the app. Oh, okay. Some people will go, I wonder what Matthew looks

like. I know what he sounds like. Now I can see it. Second

one could be, this is a really long podcast like James and I do

an hour an hour and a half podcast. We break it down into sections. And

now with chapters, which is another tag within the podcast in 2 dot

o, we can then say, hey. Look. You might love to hear what

our top story is. You might love to hear what events are going on, but

you've got no interest in all the tech talk that we do. Just skip it.

But now you have a index that you can

visually see of the structure of the podcast.

The third one that you might be interested in is transcript. Hey. I want

to follow along. Actually, I found a section that I found really interesting. I'm

gonna cut and paste this, and I'm gonna share it with my friends on social

media. So person tag, chapters, and

transcripts are 3 really low hanging fruit examples of what

we're doing with podcasting 2.0 to extend the discoverability

of podcasts. So

the more information in the RSS feed, interesting. Right?

Helping with the discoverability. But I think right. Let's talk a little bit

more about the monetization piece because I think that also kinda

lends to the second part, which is interactivity. Right? For the

most part, podcasters interact with their fans

through a third party platform. Right? Whether it's getting a rating or review

through Apple or now comments on Spotify or, you know,

whatever sort of communication box they might make available

on their website or through digital media. But now it seems

like communication be a little bit more direct with podcasting 2.0.

Is that Mhmm. Is that an accurate statement? Yeah. I mean, I think look. Let's

be fair. YouTube's had comments for a long while. Spotify's just added them.

There are other ways of adding interactivity back to the

creator, but I think what you're seeing there is

siloed comments. So if your podcast is both

in YouTube and Spotify, you've now got 2 comment silos

that you have to go to to respond to. The

goal of what we're trying to do with Podcasting 2.0 is

the fabled cross app comment. So the idea is that I leave a comment

in true fans to this podcast, someone else on fountain leaves a

comment in truth, to this podcast, and someone in Podcast Guru

or Podverse leaves a comment. But, actually, those comments

cross fertilize into all of the podcasting 2.0 apps.

So you pick the app you want, but, actually, as the

creator, the conversation from all of your fans is in

one app and then visible in all the others as well, not siloed

like you'll find in Spotify or YouTube.

Right. And it's interesting you bring that up because we had guests

recently who talk about, you know, one place where podcasters really do struggle

is they think this is just a one way street. They think they talk to

their audience, and that's it. But the most successful podcasters, the one who are

really excelling in the space, they are conversing with their audience.

So having that ability kind of making that communication

easier, will certainly make it a lot easier for people to be successful with

the space. Now the next piece of this is the monetization. And, again,

that's a form of communication. Right? You are if you pay somebody to listen to

their show, you're communicating to them. I like your show. So how does true

fans enable that? Okay. So

let me just take one step back to go 2 steps forward. One step back

is when I was at Netscape, we Mark Andreessen was

my boss and he never invented a micropayment system on the internet,

a way of sending small amounts of money.

Why why don't we just do it with PayPal or Stripe or or credit

card, right? Because the fees taken by those monetary payment

gateways is just too high to send small micropayment amounts.

So in the absence of a micropayment system in web 2.0, we

invented likes, hearts, thumbs up, and those were

the way that, people like fans or

listeners could give sentiment back to the creator and say, I liked

what you did. That's great. But none of that was useful to the creator.

They couldn't monetize it in any way. So

fast forward to today, what we've come up with is a a mechanism

that, yes, it uses Bitcoin, but that's because it's a digital

currency. But the core goal of it is I can

say, Matthew, I really liked what you did there. Here's a

1000 sats. Here's a 100,000 sats even. The amount is

irrelevant. I mean, a 100,000 sats is about £20, but a 1000

sats is about a pound, right, or a dollar. So you you really what

you're saying is I want to do the same as I did in web 2.0.

I wanna give you a thumb up or I wanna give you a heart or

a light, but I wanna attach a micropayment value to that as

well, which you can then take to the bank. Because in the aggregate, if you've

got a 100 listeners or a 1000 listeners and they're all giving you some

small micropayment, that might be 10 or $20.

But when you aggregate it altogether, which is probably more than you

could get being a a long tail podcaster like most of

us, from advertising. So it's, again, a way for

your fans, as you said, to to give you back sentiment, but also to

give you back value. So how does that

work if I'm a podcaster? Right? How do I engage

with true fans, get set up so that I can start to receive

these micropayments? And then, I guess, importantly, if I'm a

listener, what's the incentive to

to do this when my content is still pretty much available for free in

other places? Sure. So let's let's take that in 2 parts.

Let's take the last part first. So yes. Content's free on

Apple. If I pay a subscription to Spotify, I don't have to pay anymore.

Right? The reason that you want to do that is we

don't want our favorite podcasters to pod fade. Now

if you're a podcaster, you have basic costs. It's

the cost of hosting, the cost of kit, the cost of

time. Now if you then go, oh, you know what? I'm just making

no money from this. This is taking me 3 or 4 hours each week. I'm

wasting my life. I I I give up. Now you might have an

audience who loves you, but they've not been enabled to give

you any form of value back. You can't qualify for

advertising of any significance. And so you go, I'm going away and

everyone's gone, oh, if only I could have supported Matthew, he would still

be here today. So it's a choice to support you. It's not

a need to support you as in I have to pay. It's a

I choose to pay model. So now the second part of

the model is how do we do that right.

Up until now until about probably even a week ago,

it was really difficult to get money into a

wallet. Now a wallet is a physical entity that

just holds micropayments. So you take your dollars and you convert them to

micropayment. Think of them as Fairground tokens, and you put them in

a wallet. And then when you come to listen to a show, you can choose

to listen and pay on a streaming per

minute basis. So I'll give you a 100 sats per minute, or I can give

you a one off payment, a boost. So those are the ways that I

can pay you. Now up until last week, you

would have had to have opened a bank account with something like MoonPay,

done a know your customer, so give your passport, your driver's line.

No. Nobody in the world was gonna do that. It was too many hurdles

to cross just to make a small micropayment. So with

Trufans, what we did last week, we gave you the option to

onboard literally 2 clicks. You get an account, and you get a

wallet for free. You then can top up that wallet

with one click Apple Pay or Google Pay. So you say

I want $10 click, put your thumb or put your face whatever mechanism

you do for validation, and we put that money into your wallet.

Equally, when you join Truefans, we give you 5,000

sats to play with. We say, hey. You know what? We know this isn't all

new. We know this is a little bit early doors. So here's some money

anyway just to get you started. Now 5,000 sats is

$2. Right? It's not gonna break my bank. It's not gonna make you

retire. So it's funny money. It allows you to

understand. And the way that we do it we use gamification to give you that

money. So we don't just give it to you. We say, look, do your first

boost and we'll give you some value back. Do your first

streaming episode, and we'll give you some money back. So we're

teaching you how the platform works while valuing

your time and attention by putting money into your wallet.

Now the way the money works is, when you choose to

support a podcaster that you like, the money

is peer to peer. It goes from your wallet directly to their wallet. It

doesn't go through a third party gateway. It doesn't go through a bank account. It

doesn't go through any other mechanism. It goes from

yours to theirs, and that's it. It's a direct peer to peer payment, and

that's what's beautiful about it. It's that you are giving the

money, and you know all the money you give goes directly

to that podcast creator. So that is going

to beg the question, how does Truefans

make money if you're not taking any piece of that

action? That seems to be one of the primary ways that a lot of these

supporter podcast support, you know, platforms

seem to work. No. We we we take 1%. Oh, and, you know, just to

be totally transparent, we take 1% of every transaction. And I think, you know,

we're not charging you for the app. We're not charging you for the wallet. We're

not charging you for anything else, and we give you some money to start with.

I think if you if you choose to give money, we take

a 1% transaction. That's what keeps the lights on. I think that's pretty

fair. That's 100% fair.

So okay. What other features can

podcasters or or, frankly, podcast listeners enjoy

while they're on Trufans besides just being able to

support their show, you know, with these payments?

Look. You don't have to pay to come on to Truefans, by the way. So

for example, if you didn't wanna pay, don't pay. Just

turn up. We've got all the podcasts that are in the podcast index. Just

play away. We've also added though music,

audiobooks, films, online courses.

And so, again, we're not really restricting it to a

100% just podcasting. We've gone broader. Now why? Because all

of those are delivered via RSS, and they are

fundamentally, we're an RSS marketplace. We we aggregate content

that's delivered via RSS and allows you to play it back in

the form you want. So if I wanna watch a film, I click

the the play button on the film, and I can watch it as a,

stamp or I can watch it as full screen. I can then choose to pay

to stream that or I can watch it for free. So, again,

whether you're watching, listening, or interacting,

yes, there's multiple forms of content, digital content available in

Truefans. It's so interesting that you're bringing

musicians onto the platform. Why are they

finding this an intriguing proposition? And is this

kinda helping them skirt some of the limitations of the music marketplace?

Spotify is the dominant player right now in music as we all

know, and they keep changing the rules on

musicians for the number of plays they have to do

in order to qualify for a payment. The number is just going up and up

and up, and most independent music artists who are starting out in the industry

just don't qualify. A bit like podcasters have to, you know

people say, you have to have 10,000 downloads before you qualify for an

advert. The bar is just too high for musicians that are starting out.

So what they realized and recently learned so

actually the cover art can be the album art, the episode can be the

track, and they can deliver it in a structured data format

using RSS. That can be played out on podcast

apps just as a podcast would. And so they go, okay. Step

1, I get that. I can reach a new audience. And now step 2, this

new value for value micropayment model means I get paid

directly by my funds. Now this weekend or last

weekend in Nashville, they did a concert, a live concert, and you had

several artists there, and they generated 4,000,000

sats just around $3,000 from people on

podcasting2.0 apps around the world watching

live to these artists through a video playing a

concert and say, yeah. Love that boost boost boost

stream some more sats boost. And in the aggregate

from everyone around the world they made 4,000,000 sats. Now

you know, again, these are early examples, but let's go

fast forward 3 or 4 years when the mass market does understand this and

gets on board. Wow. That 4,000,000 could be 40,000,000 or

400,000,000 because people haven't got a mechanism they

understand today to reward or incentivize or

value content. But once the mass market understands this

model, who knows what the numbers will be?

I mean, it does sound like you're playing a real long game here. This isn't

the we're gonna overtake Spotify in the next year No.

Execution. No. Okay. So as I said, my background was

in the browser wars with Netscape. Right? The the thing was

I remember saying to people when I first joined Netscape when I left

Microsoft, hey. It's called a browser. It's the web. Yes. It

starts HTTP. No. Colon forward slash forward slash

www blah blah blah. And everyone went, oh, you know,

you're kidding me, Sam. No one's gonna understand this rubbish. It's

Swahili. Go away. Go away. Alright? And I said, no. This is

the future. And can you imagine, Matthew? So of my friends who I was

trying to get to convince them to come on to this thing called the web,

the problem we had was even when they jumped through all the hoops of

finding a browser, getting on board, there can you imagine? They ended up with

this gray screen with flashing lights, and I said, yes. That's the web. It's

amazing, isn't it? And they went, no. No. That's not amazing,

Sam. And it took HTML 2345,

CSS 123. It took the crash of the web 1

dot o. It it took Amazon and Google to arrive.

The web did not arrive day 1 fully born, fully formed,

fully working. And the same is true now. When I

say to you, it's a wallet. You need micropayments. They are

micro tokens that you exchange. It's a peer to peer system. People look

at me and go, no, Sam. Never gonna catch on. You're talking

Swahili again. Like, I look, bear with me because

the business need or or the critical need is there. Right?

There is a problem, and this is the way to fix it. It may take

time for us to make it simple. It may take time for

adoption, but those two things will happen, and it could be 2

years or 3 years from now. But, you know, early

adopters are on the platform now, but then we'll get the next group.

It's gonna happen. It's just a case of when, and it won't be tomorrow.

But, yeah, it will be soon. Well, given

your track record so far, I will definitely be paying close attention, and I will

try and learn Swahili. It's actually working out so well for you.

So if I if I pull up my podcasting tech page here on

Trufans, we'll we'll have a link to it in the show notes below so you

can check it out as well. There's a feature on here called the pod roll.

What is that all about? Okay. So,

historically, when people used to do blogging, they used

to put a recommendation of other blogs that

they would love. Right? Oh, I love Matthew's blog. I love James

Cridland's blog. You should if you like my blog, these are the ones you should

read. But we wanted a similar thing in podcasting. If you

like this podcast, how about these

podcasts? And therefore, the creator can recommend

other people's podcasts. And that's where we got to. It was

lovely. It's very simple, and a lot of hosts now

support it. A lot of apps support it. You know, True Fans was the first

one to do it. But it just means that your fans

can say, yeah. I trust Matthew. I listen to Matthew every week, and now he's

recommending me these other ones to listen to. Sure. I'll give it a

go. And some of those will convert to fans of other podcasts, and some of

them are going, no. Gave it a try. Not my cup of tea.

We also did that for music artists where it's

like this music track you like, these are the other

places that you might wanna hear. Other shows that played that music track because

you might like the other shows that played it. And the last one

we did was called a publisher feed, Matthew, where I like

Smartlist or I like this podcast. It happens to be also

part of a bigger group of podcasts by podcast network.

You know what? I didn't know that Smartlist was part of

Wondery. Click. Now I can see the whole of the Wondery group.

Oh, right. I might try a few Wonderies. So we're trying to use

this as another form of discovery. You know, we go back to that early problem

of discovery. Pod roles and publisher feeds are

examples of technology to help us discover other

podcasts. Is there a plan, or are you seeing

where podcasters are monetizing that suggestion space? You know,

if if you're a big enough podcast, you've got thousands of fans. I can

imagine being that recommended show would be a a big

boost to your audience and valuable. I'm sure that people will

start to do swaps and charge for those swaps. That's gonna be the nature. But

that's actually, thankfully, something that True Fans doesn't wanna get

involved in. We don't have any plans to get in between what

podcasters and podcasts wanna do. Right? That's that's up to them because

why would we, and what's the point of trying to police that? That's your choice

to your fans of your recommendations. If if they

feel that you're selling them a pub, you

know, and it's a bad recommendation, guess what? That might have

other issues for you further down the road. So it's it's your trust with

your fans If you feel that the,

recommendation is worth giving and you still wanna charge for it, that's fine. That's

up to you. But, yeah, we won't get involved.

Okay. So for the podcasters listening who are like, okay. I'm intrigued.

What should they do? Well, thank you. Please come to

true fans dot f m. Sign up. So you put in your name, validate

your email. Boom. You're into the system. You've got a wallet.

We then ask you to complete a number of tasks that teach you how to

use the system, and then you can then simply

take the money that we've given you and start playing, or you

can then top up your wallet using Apple Pay or Google Pay. We added

one other option as well because we saw, users,

you know, don't want to be constantly topping up their wallet. So we've

added a recurring payment model. So if you wanna put in

$5 or $10 or whatever amount you want as a recurring

payment, And we do it through Stripe. So, you know, it it's validated through

Stripe. It's not just my personal bank account giving you money.

So you basically say, yeah. You know what? My my podcast budget

is $10 a month. Just re top up my wallet

every every month with $10. And after that $10 is gone, I'm

not gonna be giving any podcasters any money, but at that point, I'll wait

till the next month. Or you can manually top up if you feel like you

really want to. So we're trying to make this

a totally simple fit and forget

solution where don't even worry about the fact they're called

Bitcoins and SaaS. Think of them as just fun tokens that you're

giving just as you would a heart or a like, but this happens to be

a token with money. And you were just giving that to your favorite podcasters

if you want. As I said, you don't have to give anything to listen to

podcasts on Truefans. It's a choice. Okay.

So as a reminder, we've been chatting with Sam Sethi. He is the CEO

of True Fans, and he's also the host of

the weekly show for Pod News where he talks to James about what's been

happening in the space. As a reminder, then like you just said, make sure you

head to true fans dotfm to claim your show. Or even if you're

not a podcaster, go on there just to become a listener so you can support

your favorite show in the podcasting space using all their cool features in the

podcasting 2.0 ecosphere. So, I mean, this is

probably an obvious question, and you you're obviously working on it.

But are there other places maybe in podcasting where you'd like to see some

improvement, whether it's from the content creator side or

from the listener side? One place I'd love

to see an improvement is hosts validating the content that they

publish on behalf of creators.

We this week had a host allow

a 14 megabyte cover art image in the RSS

feed. Yeah. So they

uploaded 40 megabytes to this host. This host is

now distributing that through Apple, Spotify,

Podcast Index. No validation on that at all

because 40 megabytes on an app is just gonna

crush the app, right, in terms of loading that page. That was

not just at the cover art. That was at every episode cover art

level as well. So this one podcast was over

300 meg in size. Now there was no validation being

done by the podcast host at all, and that just blew my mind.

So we have to anyway, by by the very nature of of

Truefans, we compress all images because we need to make

sure they're fast and quick loading. We also need to validate

the RSS feeds to make sure there's no empty missing

titles, which we often get, or duplicates. Or there's so many

errors within RSS feeds that could be killed at

source by the host by saying, hey. You know, you filled that

field in, but you filled it in wrong. Or you know you've got an empty

field here. Before you click publish or before we send it out,

why didn't you just go back? You know you forgot to put the season one

number in or you forgot to put something in this field, But none

of that's being done by hosts, and it just blows my

mind that we have an industry that is not taking just a

one step validation before publication.

I I can't even imagine, though, as the host, what that's doing to their bandwidth

cost, putting 40 megabyte artwork in there. And and I'm

honestly surprised that it's not getting flagged. I I know

with other platforms, they won't even let me proceed if my artwork is too big

or or or the wrong size even though bad artwork can absolutely

break your show on Apple. I don't want to name it because I'll

Matthew, I'll tell you offline, but I'm not gonna name it here in shame. Right?

But but, fundamentally, you can then go afterwards, and you can go and have a

look for yourself. It is crazy. Just crazy.

What about technology wise? Is there a piece of gear or a piece

of software, something that is on your podcasting wish

list, whether it's something that's out there that you just haven't, you know,

pulled the trigger on and bought or something that you wish somebody would create?

In terms of technology that I haven't bought, gosh, that would be, no. There

isn't. I'm just a geek. I

mean, I'm I'm running a Rodecaster 2 here. I mean, yeah, just I love I

love geekdom. I'll tell you about one piece of

technology I recently bought that I do love, and I bought

my Meta Ray Ban sunglasses, and I just

absolutely love them. They have a camera and a video in

them. They have AI built into them. They look super cool like

Ray Bans, and I everywhere I go with them, I

just have them on. And if I wanna take a photo, I just go, hey,

Matt, to take a photo. Hey, Matt, to do a video. I wanna take a

call. I can answer it. If it's a WhatsApp or Instacall, I

can basically also show you video of my first

person view from my glasses. It's just the coolest thing. And then the

last bit is I can ask when I look at a building or an

object or a cup of tea or whatever it may be. Hey, Meta. What's that

object? And they're all dang. Go and use the AI and tell me what it

is. Maybe give them some history about it. So while I was in Greece

recently, it was great walking around and asking MET to tell me what

was going on, what this building was, and just I can hear it in my

own ears. And it's not interrupting anyone else, and I just think

it's such a cool piece of tech. And I basically walk my dog with Mohs

sunglasses on listening to podcasts, and it's you know, nobody has to

worry that, you know, I've got 2 things stuffed in my ears, and there's a

car about to run me down. So, yeah, Meta's Ray Ban

sunglasses are pretty cool as a new piece of tech. I'm

gonna have to check that out. I I gotta tell you, when I get bored

with podcasting, AR is the next space that I wanna jump into. There's

so many fascinating things that could be done over there, that I'd love

to to be a part of all that. I think I

think the the the way that glasses will evolve will

be the entry point technology into AL. Yeah. Yeah. I

mean, the VisionPRO are incredible.

Just I I tested them out and the experience is just mind

blowing and I can't describe it. You know, you really just have to experience it,

but they're not practical. Once everything that they're doing is

practical into a frame like this, it's a

total game changer. You know, we won't have to carry around these

phones anymore. No. Well, you know, it may be that the phone is still in

your pocket as the the primary primary driver. But

I think if you look at Apple, they've got a a, I think it's

an m one or maybe it's a a separate named chip in the

AirPod Pros. You have a chip within your phone. You have a chip

within your, Apple HomePod. You have a chip within

your m one or m four chips.

Apple has secretly built their own

microchip platform in in

public, but nobody's talking about it. Now add glasses to

that. Add the watch to that, and you suddenly see a wearables market

where suddenly the glasses is an extension of your phone. It's an

extension maybe of what's on your wrist, an extension of what's on your laptop.

Only think they know that they will be able to shrink that

technology down from that big visor. I mean, if anyone remembers

the first mobile phones, you carried a battery around, and they were massive.

Right? And now look at what we carry around. You know? So I think it's

just, again, a time thing, but you can see the evolution of technology,

and it's super cool, and I love it. And I'm with you on AR. I

will say that's the 4th wall that I'm waiting to happen.

I can't wait to see what you come up with then. Last question. And, you

know, this is probably a tough one because of what you do and the platform

that you run. But do you have a favorite podcast or 2 that

you know, I'm sure you listen to a bunch, but is there a few that

when they drop, you're stopping what you were doing or you are, you

know, stopping what you're listening to and going straight to that show?

My my personal hobbies are politics, sports,

and technology. Right? So there are several technology shows like

Adam and Dave's on a Friday night. I drop everything. To my wife's

disgust, on a Friday night, 7 o'clock, for 2 hours,

I'm still listening to podcasts while cooking dinner. And she's like, will

you just stop? You've been doing it all week. I'm going, no. No. No. It's

live. I have to listen now every Friday night. We can't go out on a

Friday. We can't go to parties. We can't go to theater. It's

just awful. So that's one. And I love

politics shows. Like, in in the UK, there's one called Newsagents. There's,

the rest is politics. There's the American ones. I'm fascinated

by American politics, so I listen to a lot of American

politics shows. So, yeah, politics, sport,

and technology. They're my 3, go tos. Sir, are

you having a grand old time with the Olympics on? Amazing. Yeah.

I mean, again, I I it's not the most

exciting Olympics, I think. I don't know if you agree, but I

not the named characters that we used to have in the past. You know? There's

not a Karl Lewis. There's not a Usain Bolt. There's not a, you know, Mark

Spitz or or or, you know, whatever. There's nobody that I

feel that wow. I mean, I think, Simone Byers

is the the biggest name in the Olympics. Right? It's a name that

everyone would know. But I couldn't name the rowers. I can't name any of the

sprinters. I can't name any of the long distance runners. They're just not on my

radar, and they're not as well known. So I'm watching it because I'm

a sports addict, but I'm not watching it because I'm going, I must watch that

100 meters. Usain Bolt's gonna be in it. Right? Just not doing it because

of that. And it's interesting with Simone Biles. I she's an

incredible athlete, right? I've will not not say a bad word about her, but part

of her fame is a result of what

happened 4 years ago. Right? If if she had just competed and did her thing,

you're right. I don't think we'd having be having the same conversations around her.

But that being said, she's been incredible and deserves

everything that she has earned, during these Olympics. So, but, yeah, I

agree. It's it's, you know, it there are more

names, but none that are really as popular.

That being said, the Turkish shooter meme is probably the closest thing to

a superstar that have come out of this Olympics, thus far.

Yeah. I think I think there will be names

that we will get to learn, but I just watched the

men's 100 meters, and I I just didn't know anyone in that race. It was

and it's a great race, and it was very fast, and it was on the

line splits, but I was like, yeah. Okay. Well done, America.

Unlucky Jamaica. I mean, he did they were I had no

interest in any of the runners particularly. I just I watched it

very objectively. Just, yeah, it's a great race. Whereas when I

watched Usain Boltzk, yes. Win that 3rd gold. Go on, mate. Break

a world record. I felt more passioned. Let's see what

happens when breakdancing, starts to starts there. We have

been chatting with wonderful Sam Sethi. He's the CEO of true fans. Make sure you

check out your show at true fans. Fm and and frankly, go on there and

try checking out your favorite podcaster and see if there's a better way you

could support and communicate with them there. Sam, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so

much for joining us today. Oh, Matthew, thank you so much for inviting me. It's

been a pleasure too.