E04 - Chatting with a Sustainable Magazine Editor

[00:00:00] Hamish: Okay, welcome everyone to another episode of the Mindful Builder podcast. As always, I'm joined by my co host, Matthew Carlin. Maddy, how are you, mate?

[00:00:57] Matthew: Good mate, how are you?

[00:00:59] Hamish: I'm very well, thank you. Another busy day. we also welcome Anna Cummins, editor in chief of Sanctuary Magazine. Anna, welcome.

[00:01:08] Anna: Thank you very much. It's good to be here.

[00:01:11] Hamish: Anna, You started at Melbourne, well studied at Melbourne University and studied Japanese and Asian Studies and Japanese Art History, is that right?

[00:01:19] Anna: Yeah, it feels like a long time ago, but yes, that's right.

[00:01:22] Hamish: And now you are editor of a magazine. , can you enlighten our listeners of how you went from studying Asian Studies to being the editor of Sanctuary Magazine?

[00:01:34] Anna: It was a bit of a a roundabout journey. , I actually, as part of my Japanese studies program at Melbourne Uni, I did study Japanese traditional architecture. which I was really interested in.

it was part of the art history suite of subjects that I did and I was completely fascinated. And that built on an interest that I already had from childhood, in, um, basically sustainable design, passive solar design, which I wouldn't have been able to put a name to when I was a kid.

But I was aware of for example, my grandparents built our family beach house in the 1950s and it was a very tiny little modest fibro shack, but it was skewed on the block so that it actually faced north. because my grandfather designed it that way, and designed it with a veranda on the north with the eve precisely calculated to let the winter sun in and block the summer sun. And at the time I didn't understand the principles behind it, but I definitely appreciated the result. So I grew up knowing about that.

Good passive solar design, even without knowing that I knew about it, if you know what I mean. And then, studying Japanese architecture at university, I guess it just added to that part of my life, that interest in the built environment. And then I didn't do anything with that for a long time. I finished my Japanese and Asian Studies degree, I went and worked in Arts Administration, I went and lived in Europe for five years, and did various different jobs to basically to earn travel money.

And then when I was 30 or so, I came back to Melbourne and worked In an unrelated job for a little bit and then a couple of years later decided that I wanted to get into something in the Sustainability field something some sort of a green career and so I I was researching and talking to people about what that might be and what it might look like I actually started volunteering at Renew which is the publisher of Sanctuary magazine And I'm still there.

Something like 13 or 14 years later. I've been the editor of Sanctuary since 2019, middle of 2019. And before that I was the associate editor So I've been working on Sanctuary for many, many, many years. And I've been in charge for the last four and a half, or so.

[00:03:51] Matthew: so you've got Sanctuary Magazine and Renew Magazine. Do you just want to go into what the differences are between the two of

them?

[00:03:56] Anna: Yeah, sure. So Renew the Organization is the publisher. of both magazines. Renew is actually a not for profit membership based environmental advocacy organization. yes, we have two publications, Renew Magazine and Sanctuary Magazine. Sanctuary is more explicitly focused on the built environment and how to renovate or build a sustainable home.

And Renew Magazine is a little bit more technical and a bit more focused on the, , the systems involved, in living sustainable life and creating a, a sustainable home as well, but not so much from the design point of view, more from the the solar and the hot water systems and , that sort of point of view.

It's

[00:04:35] Matthew: The cool

nerdy stuff,

[00:04:37] Anna: the cool nerdy stuff, exactly. It started out as the

organisation's newsletter, back 45

years ago.

[00:04:43] Hamish: I think this kind of leads into something else. I just want to sort of circle back on something you said about your grandfather's beach house as a child, you didn't know what passive solar was, but you knew when you're in that home, it felt right.

Yeah. And I think that actually speaks to a lot of what good design is, and probably further speaks to, , some of these models, business models, where they're using the same home, and they're just rinsing and repeating the same home on a different block, and a different orientation, and how, One home that's orientated in the right way.

One particular house design can feel so much different and operate so much different to that same house being on a different block facing another way. know the houses that Maddy and I built, , all of that is taken into consideration. If you walk through them, they just feel right.

And it's not something that you can kind of put your finger on immediately, but it just, it really comes down to. You know, that amazing design and that taking the aspect into consideration during the design phase.

[00:05:44] Anna: I've got a great story that relates to that, Hamish. I'm actually working on an article for our upcoming issue of Sanctuary, which it's a house profile of a house in Townsville that was built about five years ago as a display home for a volume builder that at the time was wanting to, really wanting to push sustainability and sustainable design.

It's a 9. 5 star rated home. But then, in their infinite wisdom, when they were ready to sell it they didn't advertise any of those sustainability features. And so the guy who bought it had no idea that it was 9.

5 stars or that it had all these great design features or that it was going to be incredibly energy efficient or any of that. He bought it because he loved the way it felt. And then, after he bought it and moved in and lived in it for a few months, the original designer and builder got in touch with him and said, Hey, do you realise that, you know, this house is actually pretty special?

he didn't know, but he bought it because he loved the way it felt.

[00:06:38] Matthew: I've even noticed with my trades on site during construction that like, just, they're in shorts in the middle of winter. Like, they're inside and they're comfortable. The house is warmer, like I'm sitting in front of the glazing because it's the part that's heating up and you can feel it on your back when it's cold.

[00:06:52] Anna: Yeah, it's not rocket

[00:06:52] Matthew: really not that hard to achieve. No, it's not, it's not, it's building science, yeah.

Okay.

[00:06:56] Anna: Yeah, exactly.

[00:06:57] Hamish: What is a sustainable home to you, Anna? Like, what, what would you consider to be a sustainable home?

[00:07:03] Anna: Yeah, look, I think there are several aspects to a sustainable home and sustainable is a bit, is a word that gets bandied around a lot and is a little bit, tired sometimes, I think. So it's good to sit down and consider , what you actually mean when you use it. And for me a sustainable home.

It's to do with its size by which I mean it's just big enough for your needs and no bigger. And you're not building an extra room because you think that it'll, you'll need it for resale value down the track, whatever. You're just building what you need and no bigger. And the second part of that is that it's designed for the spaces to be flexible, multi purpose adaptable. So if you can have one space that works as a study and a guest room and a media room and maybe an extra bedroom down the track, rather than four different spaces that fill those four needs, a very small part of the time each, then that's great. so size, flexibility and adaptability, accessibility as well.

I think if at all possible, it's really important to build in as much accessibility which is part of adaptability and flexibility, really. Being able to change the use of the house and different spaces over its lifetime for the current residents, for future residents, for residents in the future who might need greater accessibility.

Even temporarily, if you break your leg, then getting up and down stairs is a pain.

[00:08:34] Matthew: Yeah, I think some people just get confronted by that whole like, oh, that would never be us. But realistically, like, people 10 plus

years. And by that time

[00:08:42] Anna: the residents that end up needing greater accessibility, if you can have mobility limited visitors and friends easily able to come over and visit you, then that's a bonus as well.

[00:08:53] Matthew: But, totally, totally agree. And I love your point on when we talk about bigger homes, that everyone complains that our building costs are so expensive at the moment. But, you know what, if you start adding the media room, you start adding the extra mudroom, you start adding the guest room, you know what, that costs money.

Like, it's

[00:09:08] Anna: money

to build, but It costs money down the track to heat and cool. It costs money, it costs time and energy to clean. there's lots of reasons why building just enough and no bigger is sustainable.

the next point of a sustainable home for is sustainable materials.

this is a tricky topic, as I'm sure you guys know, because sustainability when it comes to materials has a huge number of different elements and it's, it's, they're all trade offs. Really, between transport miles, versus durability, versus embodied energy, versus recyclability, all these different things, and then also there's aesthetics and cost as well.

Reused and recycled materials, obviously, as much as possible, and really that extends to reusing and recycling a house, by which I mean, where possible. upgrading and retrofitting an existing building rather than pushing it over and starting again with entirely new materials. It's not always possible or even the best option for an old house, but it's, I think it's always important to at least consider the possibility before you, build a whole new

house with

all new fancy new materials.

[00:10:13] Matthew: Yeah, one of our projects last, it was started last year. We actually had it cut up and taken off site and it was reused and repurposed down in I think Ballarat or Bendigo. So that existing house, we just, they cut up in pieces, put it on a truck. I was like, no fucking way, you're getting it out of this street.

And they got it. I don't know how they did it. But it's now got its second life somewhere else and our clients now have a passive house on that site. they didn't have to pay to get rid of it. So that demolition would have cost them 30 grand.

[00:10:38] Hamish: It's sort of brings up another thing too. Like, we talk a lot about, I guess the you know, embodied carbon to build a home and the operational carbon that a home uses as a, throughout its life. But we, we don't really stop to pause and think about the carbon that was used to actually build that structure in the first place.

And I know Robbie from Revival is a massive advocate for this as looking at an existing home as existing resources. And, you know, it's up to us to take, you Custodianship of these resources and either try and reuse that structure or reuse those materials back into the structure, which I think is an amazing narrative.

I love these other things you bring that you talked about like designing for flexible spaces and multipurpose spaces, but also aging in places become a really big talking point for some of our clients as well. And I just love. That one, that the homes that we're building are going to stay there for 50, 100 years, maybe multi generations of people that are going to be living in these homes, but hopefully longer.

but the fact that people are actually starting to actually consider that when they're building homes and not just sort of tick off. A real estate checklist and think, Oh, well, I need the media room and another bathroom and every bloody room has to have an en suite like, you've probably been in the sustainability space a little bit longer than me, but what I'm starting to see now is that it's becoming cool.

It's becoming more of a more wanted by the clients that are coming to us for their homes, which is incredibly refreshing. And I'm sure it is for you as well.

[00:12:13] Anna: there's also, there's a big opportunity cost in moving house a lot as well. Being able to stay where you are in the community that you're familiar with , with local connections and so forth. As your needs change, as your space needs change through your life.

I mean, of course, not everyone's going to want to do that. But I think a lot of people move because their house isn't working for them. they don't move because they want to move to a new spot, but because their house isn't working for them, that's kind of what they need to do. And that, that, that costs money.

You know, it's stamp duty every time you buy and sell a house., it's big upheaval as well. So. It's really sensible, I think, to design your house or your renovation, your extension, whatever, to, as much as possible, work for you in different stages of your life. While you've got young kids, as your kids get older, once they leave and there's only you or you and your partner at home, maybe when they come back with their kids, , to live with you and save money for their own place, whatever it is, or, or even move in and you move into a little granny flat in the backyard, for example.

You know, thinking through all that stuff as much as you can when you're doing a big project. Building or extending, renovating is very sensible because it's a huge investment of time and money and effort and materials and resources. Whenever you do a building project like that. So , why would you not, try and make it

as long lived as possible?

[00:13:39] Hamish: An emotional, emotional investment as well. I mean, that's, that's something that, we talk about a lot during our pre construction that this is a, not only are you spending a lot of money, but that emotional investment that you're going to be making, it is very tiring.

[00:13:54] Anna: yeah, absolutely.

[00:13:56] Matthew: So I just want to look back to the magazine So with Renew, who's your ready ship? Like what's your target market? Obviously these people have like a They want a sustainable home, but can you just sort of dive in that a little bit deeper? Who are you specifically targeting?

audience.

[00:14:09] Anna: is a consumer focused magazine as opposed to an industry magazine, although we do have a lot of readers like your good selves who are architects, designers, builders, generally work in the industry which is great. our main readers are, I would say, fall into two categories. They're people who are actively planning a sustainable build or renovation and want to.

Tips and advice and inspiration for products and design and so forth. And then there are people who just love good design and, glossy architecture magazines. And we try to cater to both. We try to make the magazine look beautiful and be a pleasure to flip through. to fuel people's, dreaming, even if they're not planning to launch into their own project anytime soon.

I really love it when I hear from readers who started subscribing to Sanctuary when they were building their house. Now that's long finished, that project, but they still read it. I really, really

enjoy

hearing from those readers.

[00:15:06] Hamish: where I've learned everything from Anna Sanctuary Magazine.

[00:15:31] Anna: Well, I think that is our point of difference

from

other architecture magazines, actually, is that we do really try very hard to provide not just the beautiful pictures, but the concrete information behind the projects, so that if you see a floor that you love in a house, you can actually look up what that flooring is and then go and, you know, buy it for your own project. And we also, along with the beautiful house profiles, we also about a third of every magazine is. more advice, ideas and advice articles. So it's like, articles on design topics or materials or what's going on in the industry as well. So I, try to provide as much teaching as well as education in this space for readers who might not

necessarily be across all the different elements of sustainable design.

[00:16:18] Matthew: , when you see like these sort of like, I know you just say these, like you've got these topics, like how do you sort of like identify these sort of trends for the magazines? Like how do you know, , What's next? Like, what's going to be cool? Or what are people going to pick up and read?

[00:16:29] Anna: Look, a variety of ways. obviously, we listen to feedback from readers, and we do do reasonably regular reader surveys. Aside from that, our publisher, Renew Organization, is really active , in the built environment and general sustainability space, advocacy space. So that's great for me because that's a terrific resource.

I can speak to my colleagues who are working hands on in policy and in research and hear from them about what the hot topics are. And As a publication of the organisation, part of the purpose of Renew and Sanctuary Magazines are to get those messages out to the world as well.

So be a mouthpiece for what Renew organisation is doing. So recently, for example, my colleagues at Renew were heavily involved in the campaign to raise 7 stars. Which just went through recently, finally. I've featured a lot on that topic in the magazine recently. So yeah, look, all sorts of places. , I also just keep my finger on the pulse of what's going on in the media, what people are asking about, what are the hot topics, sometimes it's really obvious. For example, I did A big pivot last year to flood resilient design for obvious reasons when half the country was underwater and uh, that closely followed, pretty topical articles on bushfire resilient design and particularly bushfire resilient retrofitting.

So not just when you're building new homes or, , in the sad situation of having to rebuild a home lost to bushfire, but what can you do to you with your existing home to make it a little bit more resilient. So yeah

[00:18:10] Hamish: So is that like a recipe that you use for setting up the magazine? I mean, it when I read through it now, I kind of, I actually think some of, some of my favorite parts are like the little sort of bite sized articles you have at the end, like particularly around gardening and, , horticulture and permaculture and stuff like that.

I love that kind of thing. So I think there's such a important relationship between the home and outside and that connection. So is there like a particular recipe that you follow when you're setting up the magazine?

[00:18:38] Anna: Yes, it does. I've got quite a lot of flexibility to do what I like, which is quite nice. But I do have a bit of a formula, and it's usually about two thirds house profiles. half of those will usually relate to , a theme, and the other half Not so much, but I just aiming to cover off on a geographical spread and a good and interesting spread of different sorts of projects.

So different scales, different budgets, different locations in terms of, , urban versus regional, that sort of thing. And then the rest of the magazine, I always include something related to outdoors or gardening or the relationship between the,, built environment and the surrounding environment.

I try to have, so there's sort of a feature article which is often quite design focused, and I usually try to have a more product focused or material focused article as well. So yeah, there's a little bit of a formula, but there's also lots of scope for things up, depending on comes in.

[00:19:37] Matthew: How long does it take you to publish like a whole sort of issue?

[00:19:41] Anna: So it's a quarterly magazine so essentially each issue takes about three months to put together, although there is some overlap, so I've definitely got a pipeline happening. Some articles I work on for six months, others, three weeks before print deadline. I've

[00:20:00] Matthew: So is there like one particular article or like piece of research that's ever sort of out to you that you're like still to this day remember? Like is there one that you're just like, that is the one that I love

the most?

[00:20:09] Anna: Oh, there's not one. I was having a bit of a think about this question before we started recording. There are a few that sprang to mind, but I wrote an article myself, about three or four years ago on co housing models, which I just totally loved researching. It's such an interesting and big topic.

Uh, there's so many different ways to approach a co housing model. development project. It was really impossible even to cram them all into one article, but I had it, I gave it my best shot. And it was just fascinating talking to people who were doing it. And I love the idea of that sort of community, intentional community living in all the different formats that it comes in.

So that, I love that. I also loved working on the article that we ran in the flood resilient design issue last year, which was because I wasn't aware of the difference between designing for wet proofing and designing for dry proofing, whereas you think flood resilient design, you think, keep the water out, right, that's dry proofing.

[00:21:13] Matthew: Do you want to run through those

two? Can you

[00:21:15] Anna: Yeah, well, so dry proofing is

basically keeping the water out. Wetproofing on the other hand is just a different design approach altogether which involves area of your house that might flood.

Designing it with water resilient materials. and design elements such as no lips at doorways and that kind of thing, with the idea that you can, if you know floodwaters are coming, you move the furniture. So it also involves, if you have a kitchen down there, for example you might have built in benchtops, but all the cupboards underneath are removable, so you can actually just pull them out and take them upstairs.

And then the idea being that you let the water in, And then you, the design is such that you can easily hose it down, sweep out the mud, and so forth, let it dry, really, so get it to the point where it can dry really quickly, without damaging the materials, and then you move back in. And that's wet proofing.

[00:22:10] Matthew: Which all actually makes

[00:22:11] Anna: I didn't even know that was a

thing.

[00:22:13] Hamish: Wow.

[00:22:14] Matthew: like, , why wouldn't you do that? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:22:16] Anna: Another article that sprang to mind, , was one that we ran maybe about four or five years ago, pre COVID on, sustainable volume builds and what you can do if you are a volume build client, , what you can do within the realms of possibility, working with a volume builder to make your home as sustainable as possible.

So that, I think that sort of article, I was just really proud of that one because that's going to give some, a lot of useful tips to people who are not in the market for the kind of houses that we usually profile in sanctuary that are a bit more bespoke. They're in the volume build market.

That's the deal. It's still possible to end up with a more sustainable home if you know what to ask and what to push for.

[00:22:57] Hamish: Again, in my opinion, sustainable volume build, I think

[00:23:03] Anna: on the, it's on the drawing board.

[00:23:05] Hamish: it's a quick one. What kind of trends have you noticed in the last few years and what do you think the future holds for sustainable construction?

[00:23:13] Anna: The main thing that I've noticed is that, , the number of readers getting in touch with us saying, Okay, so I've got a sustainable designer, sustainable architect, got that sorted, but how on earth do I find a sustainably minded builder? We used to get that question all the time, and it's dropped off quite a lot recently, which is really encouraging.

So I think it's clearly that there's just, that there are more builders. Getting on board and, making a point of advertising that as a selling point, that , they're across things like waste minimization and, efficient building, attention to detail when it comes to. Air tightness and insulation and all of those things that actually because I'm not sure whether hopefully your listeners are aware But there's a different the star rating system is actually rating the design. It's not writing the build

[00:24:06] Matthew: Yeah.

[00:24:06] Anna: Passive house is a little different. But yeah, if you've got an eight star house, for example That's not necessarily an eight star house.

It's an eight star design So it has the potential to be an eight star house, but the key thing that you need is a builder who's going to build it to the design and build it

well with attention to detail.

[00:24:24] Matthew: yeah, Hamish and I are big on this. Like, just check your work. It's not hard. Like, just making sure the insulation is installed properly. I actually can't believe that we have a frame inspection, and the next inspection is the final. Like, why aren't these

things checked?

[00:24:38] Anna: So you asked what

I think the

future holds for sustainable construction. I'll tell you what I think it should hold. And that is way more during and post build checks and tests. And people being educated enough to ask for them. Or insist on them. And, a builder that knows their stuff will be totally on board with those checks happening.

you know, it won't be an issue.

[00:24:58] Hamish: want to jump in and just, like, hijack the conversation just for 1 second. And hopefully by the time this goes to air, it will be available as a free resource. But, on the Sustainable Builders Alliance, Website, there will be a free downloadable thermal performance checklist that anyone can grab and use any builder can do it.

It's really, really simple. It's like just a checklist that you follow. And it's something that comes, quite intuitively to Matt and I, because we've been doing it for a while, but, , there are some really, really simple things that builders can do to make sure that the as built form is actually meeting what it's, you know, the design intention.

[00:25:37] Matthew: But I think it comes down to architects and also clients writing that stuff into contracts. Like, make the builder do it. Don't give them a choice. It's like, there's builders out there who are going to hate me saying that. But, if you're saying that you're a sustainable builder, what have you got to hide?

Just do it.

[00:25:50] Anna: Exactly. If you're a good builder, why would you hate it? You wouldn't care. It's not going to make any difference to the way you do things, right? So,

[00:25:58] Hamish: what does the future look like for sustainable construction? Transcription

[00:26:01] Anna: Well, hopefully,

it's going to involve more informed clients who are pushing for sustainable designs and really great builds. I think we need to get more people, just the, just people. people, the general population on board with building small, designing for passive performance, maximum energy efficiency, all electric, renewable energy.

If that's what people expect as a minimum, then we'd go a long way to achieving more sustainable construction, more sustainable builds. That we also need to, as we were talking about before, push that into the volume build space. That awareness, those

[00:26:40] Matthew: And it's really, it's really, when you've got like the, I know the VBA then reducing or delaying the seven stars. It doesn't help this sort of case either. It does become super frustrating because that just means that what in the next week, and we want to build all these new houses.

What are we going to build another 500, 000 houses a year or something crazy, which means there's 500, 000 houses we now need to fix to get up to a better

performance.

[00:27:01] Anna: not so frustrating, isn't it?

[00:27:03] Matthew: Why would you? Yeah, it just, it actually just makes no sense. We're just delaying the problem for someone else in the future to

solve the

issue.

[00:27:10] Anna: Yeah, and I forget what the dollar figure, someone calculated a dollar figure of every year of delay in terms of extra energy use requirements built in that wouldn't have been built in if those 500, 000 houses or whatever had been built seven stars instead of six stars. Anyway.

[00:27:30] Matthew: And the hardest thing is we're around people who, we're all like minded, we all think the same. So, everyone around you has that same belief and same idea. So, sometimes we're also in this little bubble, which does

make it hard to sort of understand.

[00:27:41] Hamish: just having the

[00:27:42] Anna: Yes, it is, it is hard to remember that there was an awful lot of people outside that bubble who just don't know yet. And those are people that we are trying to reach with Sanctuary and that's challenging because quite a lot of the time it feels like I'm preaching to the converted a little So getting out to new audiences is one challenge that, that I've got for sure.

[00:27:59] Hamish: Yeah, I was actually just thinking to myself before that, in my little echo chamber on Instagram I talked to, like, this is just all normal conversations, you know, even conversations I have with the other directors of SBA. , yes, it's great. We're getting pats on the back by people who are already doing it, but we need to look at ways, like, what Sanctuary is doing to us to try and reach a broader audience.

And I think this is why it's really great to do things like this, that, you know, we might have a different audience to what you might have, and you might have a different audience to what we might have, and actually getting that out to broader part of the community can only be a good thing.

[00:28:37] Anna: Yeah, I mean sometimes there's I think people talk about being a niche publication or something with sort of pride, but actually I don't want to be a niche publication. I want to be a mainstream publication. I want to be the one that people pick up when they're considering building a new, a new house.

I want them to not be prepared to embark on that endeavour without reading Sanctuary first, you know.

[00:28:57] Hamish: Um,

[00:29:08] Anna: there are a couple that really stick in my mind that I totally loved. One of them was a house in country Victoria that was designed to be recyclable.

As in completely dismantleable, with all its component pieces recyclable. Which was so cool to get your head around. So no glues, no nails, all screws, and other, you know, um, fixings that could be easily unfixed. And no, um, composite materials. So no tiles glued with tile adhesive to backing, for example. Because you can't pull that apart.

[00:29:48] Matthew: How does that then all start to comply with, like,

standards and

[00:29:51] Anna: Really tricky! But possible.

The hardest bit was the bathroom. from memory they had a A formed sheet metal shower base.

[00:30:01] Hamish: Wow, yep, that would make

[00:30:03] Anna: uh, Can't remember the details, but the concept was really, really cool, And another one was, um, was an architect, Julie Borgelt's house in Brisbane, which she built, she and her partner built over 20 years or so, starting with three relocated buildings, three buildings that they relocated from different places and arranged in a horseshoe and then kind of turned into a house, formed it into a house, and that's just was really a really

[00:30:27] Hamish: , were they three homes, were it three houses or three structures?

[00:30:31] Anna: There was one house, one small square house, and then there were two structures that were from a decommissioned military base of some sort So they were timber, two timber, small timber buildings. And they, yeah, they transported them all to their block and arranged them and then connected them with decks and verandas and outside spaces.

And it's just was really a terrific result. the other houses that I absolutely love are the ones that have the great material use. So my current favourites are Hempcrete homes, including one near me in Country Victoria here in Lionville, which was on the cover of our Hempcrete

issue, which again, small footprint,

[00:31:15] Hamish: that the Ulta Eco

[00:31:16] Anna: that's right. Yeah,

[00:31:17] Hamish: Yeah, I, I absolutely loved that project. I think the lime render on the

inside is

[00:31:23] Anna: just a beautiful. house.

[00:31:24] Hamish: Yeah. Yeah. And a really great story and narrative too.

All right.

[00:31:28] Anna: was able to visit that, that house, and that was an owner built house, they did it themselves, and it's just got the most lovely, calm, quiet feel inside. It's quite a windy site, and it was windy the day I was there, but it was quite nice. It was quiet peaceful inside, and it was just a lovely, lovely feel.

Partly because of the terrific windows, but also the hempcrete material

[00:31:52] Hamish: Was that in situ, Ham?

[00:31:53] Anna: Yeah, they did do it in situ, yeah, formwork.

[00:31:56] Hamish: Now, I've got a very topical question for you. Passive house versus passive solar. If you were to build one of

them,

the million dollar

question would be, Question.

[00:32:06] Anna: I think it's a myth that they have to be, well, it is a myth that they have to be mutually exclusive. the basic, basic is passive solar. You get your passive solar right? And you can go a long way to a really fantastic house. Passive house with a capital P, capital H absolutely love the concept.

I think that for more extreme climates. and on sites where passive solar just isn't going to work it's pretty much a no brainer. Whether I would do it myself, maybe? I think it would depend on the site. would either go passive house or I would I would go almost passive

house.

APH.

[00:32:44] Hamish: I think you hit that on the head and I'm glad you brought that up because really for a successful passive house needs good solar gain. Like it really does need to have the principles of passive solar wrapped in it. anD again, I might be a bit controversial here because I'm a passive house builder.

I personally don't believe every house needs to be a passive house. recipe and the methodology is good. And I think what it does do is it Helps the client make informed decisions during the design phase as far as what level of performance that they want to have in their home, and how much money they want to invest in that.

Because sometimes it is cost prohibitive and that doesn't make any sense. The buyback to invest another 30 grand to get a plaque on the wall, in my opinion, is not worth, it's not worth it.

Okay.

[00:33:50] Matthew: house in

Australia.

[00:33:57] Anna: And thinking that you can, um, if you build a passive house, then you can throw passive solar design out the window is a mistake too, I think.

it's still important

to, you know, Yep, have the sun coming in when you

can. I mean, except on sites where, you know, maybe you've got a three story building on your north boundary, and you can't, that's when Passive House really

[00:34:16] Matthew: in inner cities.

[00:34:17] Hamish: it's been amazing chatting with you today, Anna, it's always great to talk to like minded people and, people who have been, I guess, championing that space in the industry. . And I would say that probably hitting your head against the wall for many, many years, and I'm sure it's quite refreshing now that there seems to be a bit of groundswell around people, clients, builders, architects, everyone wanting to build healthier, comfortable, more energy efficient homes.

And I think, you can take a lot of credit for that and where we are now. And, As I said, I've been reading Sanctuary Magazine many, many years and it definitely was a big feather in my cap when one of my projects got put in your magazine. So thank you very much for all the work that you do and I've no doubt will continue to do moving forward.

Jim.

Silence.

[00:35:18] Anna: bit special to make the cut because there's just so many more projects to choose from out there, which is excellent.

And that's a credit to you guys in the industry as well. And look with the Sustainable Builders Alliance. I think that's a terrific initiative and I hope it goes from strength to strength and pulls in everybody in the industry who really needs to be on this path with us.

[00:35:39] Matthew: thank you for having us and hopefully it gets harder to get into your magazine as well.

[00:35:43] Anna: Yeah. Thanks, Matthew.

[00:35:44] Hamish: All right. Thank you very much. And I will we'll catch everybody next time. Cheers.

[00:35:49] Matthew: Thanks guys.