Gift biz unwrapped episode 324.
I Had so many people asking where did I get them?
How could they get one?
And that was that light bulb moment.
And I said,
okay, let's do this Attention.
Gifters bakers,
crafters, and makers pursuing your dream can be fun.
Whether you have an established business or looking to start one.
Now you are in the right place.
This is gift to biz unwrapped,
helping you turn your skill into a flourishing business.
Join us for an episode,
packed full of invaluable guidance,
resources, and the support you need to grow.
Your gift biz here is your host gift biz gal,
Sue moon Heights.
I'm thrilled that you're joining me for this episode.
Today, this past weekend I attended our community fine arts festival.
This is a juried show attracting artisans from all over the
world, even some international entries.
And it's really honestly,
one of my favorite shows of the whole year to go
to as an attendee.
But I wasn't sure what to expect.
Would attendance be down?
Would there be fewer booths because there's residual fear of traveling?
I just didn't know.
Well, I'm happy to report we're back normal as the days
of old normal can be.
At least that's the report from my neck of the woods,
north of Chicago.
I want to remind you that doing events like craft shows
and farmer's markets offers great photo and posting opportunities for social
media. We talked about this in one of our tips and
talk episodes in the podcast just a couple of weeks ago.
And I bring this up because you've told me you're discouraged.
When you don't see any of the time and effort you
put into social media,
moving the needle on your sales.
So given the time we're in right now,
take this as a changing point to do something different,
putting in more time posting in the same way isn't going
to magically bring you results.
You need to change the way you're posting and what you're
posting. You don't need to put in more work.
You need to put in the right work.
That's when things will change.
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access. Right now,
our guests today,
I originally met at the Chicago,
one of a kind show several years back now.
So I got to see her in action before I got
to know her on a more personal level.
And let me tell you my friend,
Debbie and I spent a lot of time in her booth
since then,
she's been an exhibitor at the at-home craft and gift show,
and also reports to be back on the road at face-to-face
shows. So that just reconfirms what I was talking about at
the top of this podcast,
you're going to love Sue's origin story,
a business that started through a laundry mishap,
even more you'll hear her growth plan,
her wins and struggles and things that have kept her in
the small business game for over 25 years.
Let's get to our conversation right now today.
I am so excited to introduce you to Sue burns of
Baba Zuzu.
Sue started her craft 26 years ago,
due to a laundry error.
You heard me write a laundry error retreat reduced sous beloved
sweaters to a pile of carnage.
What would've brought most to tears became a light bulb moment
for Sue blending,
her graphic design with her sewing skills.
She refashioned the sweaters into new wearables and launched Baba Zuzu.
The grant has grown into hats,
mittens scarves bags,
and more for men and women all made from post-consumer woolens.
The last 25 plus years have been a whirlwind of growth,
excitement, challenges,
and brilliant ideas that have tested Sue's patients as well as
rewarded her efforts.
Sue says she's grateful for the learning curves that are part
of the journey as an artist and an entrepreneur.
And today we get to talk to her Sue,
welcome to the gift biz on wrapped podcast.
Hi, thank you for having me.
I'm excited to share our story Today.
I know it's such an original creative way you got into
your business.
So I can't wait to share it with everybody as well.
Plus you already know,
I love your products.
I do know that.
Thank you.
But before we go any further,
I want to have you introduce yourself in what's become a
more creative,
traditional way here on the show.
And that is through a motivational candle to share with us
what your candle would look like by color.
And quote,
Color is hard.
I would say to narrow down to one color simply because
I work with color all day long and I really am
sort of forced to use everything.
It doesn't mean I love them all,
but I do find that I gravitate toward the warmer fall
tones. So I would have a color that would kind of
roll through,
say olive greens and chest temp Browns and some deep oranges
and golden yellows.
But if I had to choose one,
I would go of green.
And I don't know why,
but I just really am fond of olive green.
Do you feel like your favorite color will change over the
course of years?
No, because I've been doing this so long and that still
is what speaks to me.
The loudest,
I will say the one that I really can not resonate
with ever is Navy blue and I don't know why,
but we sell an awful lot of it throughout our product
lines. So I really do embrace all of the colors.
They just don't all go home with me.
That's a good way of saying it.
And that's so interesting.
So because I never wear Navy or any shade of blue,
really, maybe an Aqua from time to time.
But I also am not a blue girl.
I'm a total black girl,
for sure.
But anyway,
so that's interesting.
There were wardrobe,
I would say black is just practical and easy.
Yes, I agree.
Okay. So we've got your really warm,
toned otomy color candle and what would be the sane on
the candle?
Okay. So this is a favorite.
If you shoot for the moon,
even if you miss,
you'll still be among the stars,
love it.
And what does that mean to you?
It means to go for it,
go all the way.
And even if you don't get,
as far as you think you've still gone somewhere,
it was worth the while and wherever you've landed,
there was some merit for being in there in that moment,
in that place for you.
So that's What I take from that.
So taking the chance and shooting for the moon,
you gotta,
yeah. I love that.
The big fear I have with people,
especially within this community of makers is someone who thinks and
thinks and thinks about starting a business and just never does
because they're afraid they're standing in their own way.
And so your quote reminds me of that.
That's very drew and I would have to say,
even throughout the progress of business,
growing a business,
each product,
each time you try a product,
you're back in the saddle.
Again, you're still shooting for the moon with that one product
that may or may not be well received.
And it still is putting yourself out there and hoping that
it is successful and the other people also gravitate toward it.
So even every day in everything we do,
I think that this little quote still applies.
I would agree with you.
I'm going to ask you a question a little bit later
because it'll then be in more context,
but I'm going to prepare you for it now of what
product did you put out there that didn't work,
but we're going to do that later.
So that's a little teaser for me and everyone who's listening.
Cause you probably already know your answer might be more than
one. Okay.
Well that's okay too.
All right.
So I shared with everybody the start of your business,
but tell us the story a little bit more in your
own words,
the light bulb moment of your sweaters that were now like
the size for a doll.
Right? So my husband who was being helpful and chipping in
to help with the laundry happened to scoop up all of
my wool sweaters and throw them in with a normal load
of laundry.
Like we all have done.
However, it wasn't one favorite sweater.
It was a lot.
And of course they come out exactly.
Like you said,
Dallas thighs when nine years ago,
our daughters were then three and six.
So tiny.
I grew up behind a sewing machine,
literally. And graphic design was my background throughout college and a
short stint with that.
So I kind of blended the two.
I took my graphic design,
my visual skills,
my sewing skills and the concept of the fact that they
were little and looked like they'll fit little kids,
but they're never quite right.
I started to think if I just dismantled them and made
the sleeves a little shorter,
the fit would be better.
Then I got to thinking that sleep,
didn't have to go back on that sweater.
And that's where our blend of color pattern and texture started.
So it was really an evolution just to trial error.
Absolutely. Yes.
And the creations I made for our young daughters,
then I did not plan to start a business with.
It was merely to salvage what was ruined.
And I had so many people asking where did I get
them? How could they get one?
And that was that light bulb moment.
And I said,
okay, there's a calling.
Let's do this.
Okay. So story check,
you took that pile of sweaters after a few tears were
probably shed,
maybe some words spoken.
I don't know.
It's been so long.
Yeah. So then you thought,
well, you know,
he didn't do it on purpose,
but still the result is the same,
all your sweaters that you liked.
Right. So then you thought,
okay, well they are the size that could fit my daughters.
So let me see what I can do with them.
That's when you got to making,
piecing things together that would work,
then people were asking you for them,
which is because you were getting product validation before you were
even thinking about any type of a business.
And clearly nobody was doing this before.
That's right.
Yes. And that's just exactly where we started.
So I had so many people asking and I thought,
okay, well I think we have something here,
a children's line naturally.
And that's what I started with.
And then that very first year that I was out marketing,
these children's creations,
I had so many adult women saying I would wear something
like that.
I don't have young children or grandchildren,
but I would wear that.
And I thought,
okay, now I have a really big audience,
an even bigger calling right now.
However, what I'm shrinking now has to be supersized.
Right? That's right.
That was my first hurdle maybe.
Oh my gosh.
So before we get too far along and I know you've
been in business for quite a while,
so let's see how far back memory goes.
Okay. Okay.
When you decided you were going to start your business,
did you see people interested in the product and it started
promoting the idea for you?
Or did someone come up and say to you,
man, you should start a business.
I would buy this from you.
No, it really was people asking for it.
And then kind of putting that together,
like, okay.
There appears to be a market for this.
And I really liked what I had created.
So I was all gung-ho to go ahead and chase That.
So go for it and see what happens.
That's right.
Okay. And so then what was the very first step you
did? So we've talked about,
okay, so now the concept is here,
people are interested and then you started talking about how now
it wasn't just children,
it was adults,
but what did you actually do in that very beginning time
to get your business started?
So a couple of things.
So with my business,
I started my business.
It didn't take a lot of startup money or space.
So I started in my home in my basement and I
just needed a sewing machine and I needed to buy used
sweaters. Right.
So that was pretty easy to do.
I didn't have to go out and get a loan and
set up a building and buy a lot of equipment and
hire people on.
So I started,
it was just me with a little bit of equipment just
shopping. And it started to grow kind of quickly in that
first year of the children's,
like I said,
morphing that into women's one of the first things I did
that kind of validated the fact that I was going into
business was that I was approached by a rep.
So a sales rep out of Chicago.
And that was the first thing that made me feel like
I was really like,
this was real.
So that was my real connection with selling to a retail
stores in boutiques.
Okay. And so where did this rep see your things?
Were you doing shows already that first year I was Doing
shows? However,
it was somebody locally that had a boutique that thought that
my product was really,
and she thought this person would be a great rep for
what I was producing.
So it was a connection.
So in the beginning,
were you always thinking that you wanted to sell wholesale and
have people stock your product in their shop?
No, I really didn't.
I probably didn't even know that that was a thing I
was direct to consumer because the consumer approached me first.
As soon as that notion was put in my head,
my world got a little bigger and at the end we
kind of just never stopped at the wholesale,
you know,
that became really a focus for us.
So you did make a switch at some point then from
direct to consumer too wholesale,
We really did to the point where,
you know,
we blended the two types of marketing for quite some time,
but we fell away from the direct to consumer just because
our wholesale business girl lie.
And we were plugging ourselves into a lot of venues over
the years.
We started to really push ourselves in that way.
And I just feel like it really validated us as a
business. However,
we've morphed back into a lot of retail again,
and we're back to blending both worlds and it's been good
for us.
All right.
So it sounds like over the course of the 25 or
more years or so that the sales channel has changed,
like first it was retail,
then it went more to wholesale.
You were blending,
then now you're back to retail.
So you've just kind of gone with what the signs are
that feel right for the business based on where you're getting
the business and probably also what feels right in terms of
combining it with your production,
whether you want to travel all of those things.
Would that be a correct statement?
Yeah. They're all big considerations.
You know,
when you span almost three decades and business things change,
you have to roll with that.
So we've made those adaptions along the way,
according to where those markets have maybe slimmed out or new
opportunities. Like when we started,
there was no worldwide web.
And so we've just kind of plugged ourselves into places where
we've needed to.
And in the end we feel like there's merit to all
of these venues.
For instance,
my wholesale stores.
So many people know who we are because they found us
in his store.
I can't deny that that's a great way for us to
continue to do business.
And we continue to nurture those accounts and grow that area
of our business.
However, there are lots of places,
little corners of the world that there aren't stores that carry
us and people have heard of us or their friends wearing
us, but they can't get it down the street so we
can become available to people in other ways when we cannot
be in your backyard.
Yeah. I mean,
that's the huge benefit that exists today.
I'd say,
because you've got the web,
you can still go out to shows and you can still
do wholesale and all of them somewhat play into each other
and help each other.
It's not just a one and only,
all right.
So I meant to ask you this way in beginning,
and I have to ask you this,
cause I don't think I ever heard this from you,
but where did the name come from?
It is so creative.
Ha that is always a question.
Zuzu is my nickname for SU and Baba is for the
wool because everything we make is from reclaimed woolens.
So it always is part of our conversation,
which is great.
I don't think that we really thought that would be,
but it doesn't matter if we're at a show or someone
walks into my little retail store here off the beaten path
or you and I are talking,
it's always part of our conversation and it's pretty neat.
Yeah. It's very cool.
All right.
So I think to help our listeners and for them to
get as much out of the conversation as possible,
let's talk about two different things.
Let's talk about the retail side first,
and then let's talk a little bit about wholesale and then
I have a couple of just random questions for you.
All right.
So direct to consumer.
So that was what you started with way back when,
before there was website,
before you even knew about wholesale and the potential of getting
your pieces into local boutiques,
bigger, small,
how did you start selling way?
In the beginning,
We would do a lot of holiday markets.
A lot of like junior lewd shows,
holiday markets at a point art fairs,
that sort of thing,
because we are an art full product.
So that's really how we started.
And that's kind of all that was available in terms of
being direct to our consumer being right in their space.
Did you have a good feel for who your consumer was?
So in terms of being able to select the right shows
or was there some trial there?
I don't think so.
Well, I think that we had a product that was so
unique that people gravitated toward it.
I feel like we had success no matter where we went,
because we were pretty eye-popping we were artful in handmade.
So certainly our price reflected that.
So that might've been one thing we had to keep in
mind is the types of shows we were doing.
What was the consumer that would be strolling the show.
Right. For sure.
And so how has the evolution of the shows gone over
the course of this whole time?
Well, we still do a lot of holiday and art fairs.
It just kind of depends on what our schedule is.
Like. I mean,
we really pack it in we're a fourth quarter business.
We start in January making our product to sit on a
shelf for a good eight to nine months and then rolling
it out in the next three months is pretty challenging.
So while we're in our busy,
busy time of stacking our stores and maybe restocking our stores,
it's also the time that we're doing those markets that are
travel. So I sometimes don't know how we do it,
but somehow we do.
Yeah. So how many shows a year do you do approximately?
Gosh, I'm looking at my chalkboard here.
I still do a chalkboard.
Don't look at last year.
It was just,
let's looking at this year.
This is current.
No. And they asked her,
we packed some into honestly,
so, oh,
I'm looking at 10 that are pretty local with the exception
of a few that are out of state.
So those are those art fairs and a few of the
holiday shows there.
In addition to that,
we do the wholesale trade shows.
So typically we would be in New York for the New
York now and give show twice a year.
That would be January and again,
August we also do the Philadelphia used to be the buyer's
market of American craft.
Now all these shows have changed names so many times.
And so recently American handcrafted.
So that's the Philly show that's always in February.
And then we've always done the American craft council,
Baltimore show,
which also lines up with that.
So essentially the month of February,
we go to the east coast and we stay out there
for a month and we do all of those shows.
You are one travel donkey,
For sure.
Yeah. You could say so it's part of it.
And you know,
we enjoy that as much as we enjoy staying right here
and creating.
So, so your year is made out of going to the
shows. Then when the shows aren't in progress,
you're really producing and creating,
but then the real big sales thrust is at the end
of the year and of third and fourth quarter.
You're absolutely right.
Yes. Talk a little bit about the shows in terms of
tips or things that you've seen work best in your booth.
Well, I Obviously your presentations,
so your booth design is really important and I think accessibility
to your product for us,
everything has to be able to be touched,
maybe try it on a mirror,
like making it easy for people to fall in love with
what you do.
Half of that is being able to touch it and maybe
try it on.
So I think those two things are really important.
I love my customer base.
I absolutely love interaction with my customers.
So I just love the platform of being able to talk
directly to my customers.
So I think attitude and just some confidence,
which I wouldn't say I had in the very beginning for
anybody. Who's just starting.
It's hard to put yourself out there and hope that everybody
receives you as well as you want them to.
Probably they will.
But in the beginning,
it's a hard place to throw yourself,
but don't let that scare you.
No, no,
no. Well,
I will tell you that it's very apparent that you enjoy
people. You enjoy talking,
sharing what I'll say,
quote, unquote,
working your booth.
You're not showing up as if it's your job.
You're showing up that you really enjoy it.
But I'm also going to say for people who have a
product like yours,
where you're talking about,
like they have to make a selection,
they want to try it on.
They want to see how it would fit.
Mirrors are really important,
as you said,
because you can see that it fits,
but you want to see how you look in it.
Why I was starting to talk about all of that is
it makes someone who feels like they are an,
and that it would be harder to talk.
It gives you something to talk about because with you you'll
say, well,
you gravitating more to the autumn colors or do you like
bright colors?
Or do you like more of the black,
white, gray blend?
Like you're talking about a product which makes it so much
easier to interact with them.
Yeah, I would agree.
And I think also now you're taking the focus off from
you and you're putting it onto the customer.
Like what color do you like?
Or we have five hit styles here,
which one speaks to you?
What are you looking for in a hat for fit?
Or this is a really feminine style.
This one's a little sportier.
Like suddenly you can get the customer talking about themselves and
you can take that information and apply it to your sales
technique in which product you would sell to that person.
Right. Is there anything that you've learned over time and working
in your booth,
that would be a key tip.
Like I'm thinking signage or something about displays or how much
inventory you have are like,
are there any tips in that arena again,
We've been at it so long and we've changed so much,
I guess,
because some things don't work as well as others,
but yeah,
signage is really important.
There were periods of time where we didn't have signage or
we didn't have good signage And signage with what the product
is or pricing.
Or when you say signage,
what are you thinking there?
I guess I'm talking about our brand because after a while
we did become a brand and people knew our name.
And so we felt it was really important.
If someone were walking down an aisle that from a distance,
they could see our logo and our name.
So that became important to us.
Oh, To make that very visible within the booth,
you mean?
Yes. So a customer who is familiar with your brand and
maybe your logo and your name sees that and says,
oh my gosh,
they're with their friend.
Oh my gosh,
those bounces that we got to go down there or here's
the thing I'll tell you,
like, not booth,
but like I said,
we have a retail store.
We're off the beaten path here where we are in Northern
Michigan. And we have some of the pure Michigan signs that
are out on our highway,
beautiful and 22 corridor.
And it's a directional sign that tells you where we are.
Lots of people will go by that sign.
And they're like,
oh honey,
there's that?
Barboza that had I bought in Des Moines,
Iowa, they're up the road here.
No idea.
Or we get people who pass our sign and go,
what is that?
We have got to go find Out because the name is
so new,
unique. Yeah.
And whether,
you know it or not,
whether you know the name and you can connect with that
or you don't,
and they're curious about who you are because of your name.
I think that's been important for us,
the signage.
And then as far as you were asking,
maybe about like signage for styles or pricing,
we always do pricing because you know what,
when you're busy and you have 30 people on your booth
or whatever,
nobody wants to wait to ask.
So we try to make things like that,
a parent.
And then I feel like I do want to interact with
my customers.
Maybe we leave a little bit of things to question like
the hat styles.
I expect to engage with my customer all the time.
So if there are some questions laughed or because I haven't
put signage or something,
like, I think it's important to have the interaction with the
customer. So do you intentionally leave a little bit of something
out so that they'll talk with you?
I don't know that I leave anything out,
but maybe our product does take some explaining.
So we have like a half dozen hat styles.
We have three different types of mittens down to different types
of fingerless gloves.
We have,
I don't know,
a half dozen different scars.
I feel like they all take some explaining and you've maybe
you got well mittens or mittens.
Well, there are things that are different.
Maybe about our mittens are two types of fingerless gloves.
And I couldn't put all that into written words.
I feel like it takes some explaining.
And the other thing is demonstrating.
There were some of our products that I can sell hand
over fist all day long because I put it on.
And I think you have to be willing to do that.
I was going to get to that.
I'm so glad you said that because you always are wearing
something of yours.
Yes. And you know,
I mean,
that's tough because if I made an indoor venue,
I can't because we're outdoor,
but I will take anything and put it on.
If I'm at an art show and it's 90 degrees out,
I will put a hoodie scar fun because somebody's asking about
it. And all I have to do is show how it
works and I'd probably have a customer.
Yeah. I think that's true.
But demonstrate,
I mean,
that's almost signage in and of itself,
you know,
actually wearing the product.
Yes. The thing like a website,
you don't have the opportunity to do what I was just
explaining. So when you're in that place and space where you
can do that,
you had to take advantage of that.
I agree with you totally let's stick with direct to consumer
for a second.
What happened when you had an opportunity now to go online,
enter in the game,
changing worldwide web.
Sue's going to share with us how she integrated this into
our business,
right after a quick break to hear from our sponsor.
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in the beginning,
our Wholesalers,
our stores that we sold to were especially unhappy about that.
It was a really challenging transition.
And as you can imagine,
because it's been really tough for the retail industry to go
to battle with online sales.
So it was tough for us to kind of mollycoddle our
customers and go into this new way of selling though.
We absolutely had to,
we could not ignore that there's a customer over here.
And we had to be part of this evolution and this
new way that our old way was still so important to
us. So the first thing that we did was we put
our website on our hang tags one year,
that year that we had a website.
And I remember some of our stores were really pretty outraged
and oh,
they would come back to me and they'd say,
I'm going to tell you right now that the second we
get your product in,
we cut that part of your hang tag off right away.
So I knew it was a tough road,
but it also was a new time for everyone.
So in that period of time,
and there was all this resistance here,
we are fast forward now,
15 years or 20 years.
And there isn't anybody in the world that wouldn't have a
product without a website.
Right. It was kind of some rough water there.
Yeah. I mean,
you could see,
I mean,
there are definitely feeling that it's threatening their ability to sell
your product too.
But I would imagine like once they actually got going,
I mean your product,
because they're all one of a kind for the most part
and every one of them is just a little bit different.
There is such an advantage of picking out that exact one
that you want in person.
And that was our selling point.
That's what our kind of rebuttal was.
Look, I understand your frustration,
but I will tell you that the 12 pair of mittens
that are coming to your store September 15th are the only
12 pair that looked like that.
So I think that smooth things over a little bit for
us and other people didn't have the same luxury,
but it piece some and not so much of those.
And then time softened that.
Yeah. And you're right.
Time did soften that and now we're all used to it.
I mean,
it's just accepted,
but it's a good example of the way business changes and
evolves and you have to accommodate and adjust with it,
I guess I'd say.
Yes. All right.
So you have also been an exhibitor at the at-home craft
and gift show.
That's right.
So this whole new segment of opportunity,
and I'm actually calling this too.
I don't know if you,
and I've had this conversation,
maybe we have,
but I'm really feeling like these virtual shows are a category
unto themselves.
So there obviously it's a direct to consumer.
So it would either be instead of going into someone's store
or going to a show or online,
like I'm looking at this as not just an option as
a different version of a craft show,
I'm looking at it as something entirely different.
I'd love for you to share with us your experience.
You were in the December show,
the holiday show,
cause you already told us you're a seasonal product with all
of that wall.
And it would be great to hear because you've had a
lot of experience with all different types of shows.
So share with us a little bit about what happened for
you at the at-home show.
Okay. So the highlight of that show for us was the
fact that there was a live portion of the show.
So I'll just have to back up a little bit to
COVID and what that did to us as far as shows,
which is no surprise,
they were all canceled and immediately some of the art fairs
that we would do,
and especially all of our wholesale shows started to offer virtual
shows, which we thought was a great,
I mean,
what are we going to do?
It's all there is.
And one of the venues for a wholesale virtual show,
they have been in the tech,
I guess,
tech, digital marketing for quite some time.
And I was sure they would have a live portion of
the show.
I was so disappointed when they didn't,
all of those shows have yielded little to no results.
And I was so excited about the at-home show because of
that live portion.
And it just felt like all the things I've been talking
about about being able to interact with our customer became available.
Again, even though we had to be remote,
we could be in touch with people.
So I had people call during the show.
They came into our booth,
virtually came in.
So they're live on my screen.
They bought my product for years.
They were from out east,
but they've never met me.
They've never been to a show that I've been at now,
suddenly somebody who knows me because they bought my product maybe
at a store and they're loyal to my product.
They love it.
They bought it off my website.
They were so delighted to be able to meet me as
if we were standing in my 10 by 10 booth somewhere.
I think that that is such a valuable tool to any
digital marketing and digital shows that will happen or virtual shows
that will happen.
That live portion is just it's essential.
Yeah. It's really key.
It was so fun with you and your product specifically too,
because of course I did my share shopping and we could
go through and I could say,
oh, for my son.
And then you could ask me,
and then you could show me,
like you just held up because remember,
and I'm talking to people who are listening now,
not used to obviously,
but all of Sue's products look different.
You can hold up then Sue,
like, okay,
well, do you think he'd like this pair and you show
me the left and the right hand glove or this pair,
right. Left-hand glove.
And then I'd say,
oh, I like the ones on the right.
And you say,
okay, so olden,
you would start making me my pile of things.
Yes. So it was a really experience,
you know,
how we talk about how retail shops now it's all about
experience. This was kind of like being in an online retail
shop combined,
because I was looking at you,
you were showing me pieces that were available.
I was making decisions was kind of like that.
Okay. You were putting them at the checkout counter.
For me.
It really Was the closest thing to being in a store
or a booth for me as well.
It just really,
really did emulate that experience.
Wonderful. And I know you're going to be there this coming
year too.
Right? The holiday show.
I am yes.
One more time.
So anyone who wants to see Sue's things it's going to
be end of November,
December, you'll definitely want to come.
That's the at home craft and gift show.
We're looking forward to it.
Yeah. We've already talked a lot on the podcast about that
show. So we're not going to go into more of that.
Now. I want to continue on with your story because I
see my list of questions and I see the time going
by. So let's talk a little bit just to address your
wholesale portion of the business.
So at what point did that enter in,
if you were thinking number of years in,
when did you start selling wholesale?
So Probably two years in,
we hooked up with that rep out of Chicago,
as I explained to you.
And then we had a friend in a local store,
he had a gift store and he attended what was then,
as I said,
the buyer's market of American craft in Philadelphia,
which was all handcrafted American made products.
And we thought that would be a good fit for us.
So we put that on our list.
I guess we juried in,
we got into that show and I always say that show
was the gateway to wholesale business for us.
We just had immediate success.
All of the top galleries in the country attended that show.
And it was,
oh my gosh,
those were the days like they say,
I mean,
it was shoulder to shoulder buyers,
the enthusiasm and our product was just so fresh and do,
and there was nothing like it.
Like I said,
our success out of the starting gate was pretty immediate.
We were lucky for that.
You know,
we continued there for years and then we started to add
things like the New York now.
And we would be in their American made handcrafted section.
And we just grew into other formats or venues that catered
to that as we grew our production About any adjustments you
had to make in the business to accommodate wholesale,
like pricing or production,
anything on that end because We started with our children's wear.
And then we almost,
at the time that we morphed into the adult,
we had started off with our connection in Chicago and we
had our wholesale pricing we started with right away.
So I think that that's always hard though.
I think that pricing your own product is very hard.
I think you get scared of pricing yourself out of the
market. You want your cut yourself.
We deal with it.
Even still today we go,
how much can you sell a pair of mittens for?
So the price of polar tech going up like crazy,
our liner,
you know,
that labor is always going up.
We have employees that have been here for a good long
time. We have to reward them for that.
So I would say pricing is always really hard,
especially when you have to jump your price for the same
product that gets tough.
I'm not the only one.
I mean,
everybody has to do that.
I think that's a hard place in wholesale,
but again,
the number of years we've been at it where you get
wiser and you do what you have to do.
Yeah. You know,
it sounds like you didn't have too much of a struggle
cause you were instilled a little bit product development because you
were also now creating an adult line,
correct me if I'm wrong,
but you weren't having as much of a comparison to past
products because you didn't have a full established line of adult
yet you were still in the develop,
right. You're exactly right.
Yes. Yeah.
But it's something that I think everyone,
if you're thinking about eventually your interest is doing wholesale because
some people,
it isn't,
you know,
it's a whole different animal.
It's a whole different way of running business.
It puts different pressures on different areas of the business.
You know,
employees with production.
If you're running a lot,
the pricing is different.
It's just a different animal.
You can do one or the other or both.
There's lots of options there.
Yeah. You know,
we wouldn't dream of omitting either.
I just think that we see value in all of the
ways that we market and sell our products.
That's good input,
really good.
But having that plan and thinking about that and considering those
different avenues upfront,
and then you don't get caught with pricing.
Like if you price too low,
direct to consumer,
and then you have a wholesale opportunity,
then your pricing is going to be way off.
If you didn't plan for it initially.
Yes. And obviously you don't want to undercut your retailers.
And I know some people make the mistake of doing that.
Maybe some people starting out.
So it is really important to set your price so that
if you expect to get into wholesale,
you have the buffer to do that.
Right. The other thing I would say that's really important with
wholesale business is on-time delivery.
We just have never not delivered on time.
I mean,
you will burn a bridge so fast.
I mean,
you are better off saying you can't have those for three
months, then you can have at one month from now and
not until the ring.
So be really fair to yourself about what you will promise.
And if you can deliver that promise,
that's Really good input for sure.
So what role does social media play in your business?
So I would say a lot and I am not a
big social media fan.
Like the tone of your voice when you said that.
Well, You know why?
Because I feel like it's a big time consumer and I
don't have that kind of time.
So honestly I pay someone to do mine and it's not
inexpensive, but I feel like we cannot live without it for
a while.
This is why I said that the way I said it
for the longest time,
I feel like we spend money and there's no way to
what it does for us.
So what that you get likes or do you know what
I mean?
So what that you have followers,
does it transfer to dollars?
And it is really hard to say that it does or
doesn't. So for me,
the girl that I use or the marketing team that I
use, she does a lot more than that for us.
So not only does she post on our Instagram and Facebook
is what we use.
Not only does she does our post three times a week,
she actually comes and chooses the product.
She finds models,
she styles shots in the models.
And so if it were me and I were directing my
own social marketing,
I would be the girl in every shot because where am
I going to get a model every three days?
And I would be in front of the red barn,
outside of my facility.
So I just felt like even if it didn't turn into
direct dollars,
I was getting something over here.
And then I had this beautiful photo library that I could
use for lots of other marketing.
So I feel like I had to make it work for
me in more ways than just what we know to be
Facebook and Instagram postings.
And then last year,
again, with all of our crazy changes,
I had her do a Facebook advertising campaign for us that
was super successful.
And if you want to details for me,
I couldn't tell you because I don't understand all of that,
but I feel better about social marketing than I used to
in terms of money spent.
So I'm more of a believer,
but I think it's hard to throw money at that and
feel okay about it in terms of what will come back
at you for that.
Well, when you start doing ads,
then you're able to measure much better.
Correct? I think it's the evolution of social overall too,
because social initially was free.
You know,
all you did was post.
You could get a lot of attention for nothing and all
of that has now changed.
And so now you have to do ads,
but before social media,
we would put money in promoting through newspapers years,
talking about outdoor,
that you do all different types of things.
So it's just another version of that.
And once you spend start doing ads,
then you can track.
And like you,
I see success with Facebook ads and you know,
and I just look at it as it's just a different
way to promote your business.
You've got to get people out there seeing what you're doing
before they can even think of making a purchase,
whether it's driving them to your website,
driving them to a show you're going to be at selling
directly through the platforms,
all of that.
Yeah. In the last year we switched over to the Shopify
website platform.
My favorite there's So much information behind the scenes there about
where your sales are coming from and or your visitors on
your site.
And so again,
we were able to track our Facebook or Instagram sales or
website visitors,
and I felt more comfortable about throwing money at it when
I could really see what it was doing for us.
Right. I mean,
this has been a common challenge,
even through the huge brands that spend millions and millions of
dollars, you know,
and people trying to justify their positions in the beginning,
when there'd be social media departments,
it's like,
okay, we're spending all this money.
We've hired you,
you're spending weeks.
How do we track it back?
Like what portion of the sales is attributable to that?
And I mean,
it continues to be a challenge.
So I agree with you you're right on with your assessment
with that.
Yeah. I'm happy to be a little bit on the other
side of it because yeah.
You heard me start out with the hesitation and yeah,
No, it was cute.
I had to call it out cause it was just so
cute. It was fun.
I mean,
when The girl that we work with,
when we approached her,
I just said flat out,
I was like,
I just have to tell you hands down.
I am a skeptic,
but here I am sell me Well.
And she clearly did that.
So that's awesome.
All right.
We have to approach this one other question that we were
talking about earlier,
I'm dying to know and one or two or whatever you
want to respond to this,
let's talk about one of the products that you put out
in the market that you saw,
just wasn't going to get traction.
Give us one of those stories.
Okay. So I probably did this,
not once,
not twice,
but three times a spring line.
So we're all winter.
And I actually,
I mean,
yesterday I had a phone call from somebody.
Do we make a spring jacket?
And I tried it three different ways and failure,
failure, failure.
So, you know,
I just couldn't find things that would resonate with what we
are known for,
which is wool,
winter, and recycled.
And I tried recycled kimonos.
I tried recycled upholstery sample fabrics.
It just didn't resonate with our customer.
I mean,
it was a flop every single time.
And I,
at this point and not really unhappy about that,
I'm thrilled because I never have to say yes to that
again. Right.
You could ask me all day long to do is bring
nine. And I would tell you no with ease.
So I'm happy to be in that place.
And that's sometimes what failure or little non successes that's sometimes
what they're for is to get you back on track or
I'm happy to say I tried it and I don't have
to go there again.
Yeah, strategically it would make sense if there is a hole
in your year of selling and you could fill it with
a product with your existing audience,
why would you not try and do that?
Absolutely. If people had loved it,
if they had eaten it up,
I would be so happy to be turning.
I say,
I wouldn't be happy though.
I didn't love doing it as much as I love what
we do,
but I would do it,
but you're absolutely right.
I would do it if people were clamoring for it.
But now,
you know,
I mean,
people are very clear in what you offer,
right? There's no question about what you offer.
And if you had a spring line,
it would a little bit dilute the brand that you have
now, You know,
and honestly it did.
It took us away from that.
And you know,
in hindsight it wasn't the best direction for us to go
in. But like I said,
we had to try it more than once.
And the results not working was probably the best thing for
you. As you said,
you tried it now.
You can be very clear that that is not a direction
for you.
So now you can be true,
solid, streamlined,
focused on what you're doing.
Absolutely recognizing exactly what time of the year is for sales.
What time of the year is for more production.
What time of the year is going out to trade shows
to get your product into the stores in time for your
sales period?
Like all of that is so clean and clear.
Yeah. Yeah.
You're right.
The breakdown of how you put that as exactly how we
break down our time in a calendar year.
So yes.
Beautiful. Wonderful.
So give us peek into what you think the future holds
for you.
Oh boy,
It's not a spring line.
I can tell you that.
I think just Expanding our markets,
I feel like we have a pretty good product line size,
so almost 50 products.
And I would like to see us in more markets and
I'm not really sure with the wholesale industry is pretty challenging
right now,
as far as growing into that.
Not sure how to do that,
but I know that in our digital marketing and sales will
continue. We put into place some new tools last year that
were really successful for us.
I'm excited to see those take off and drive more website
traffic to us.
If you recall,
the Bernie Sanders mittens.
Yep. That Thing did wonders for us.
Paperwork, Googling sweater mittens,
and our girl that monitors our website does our SEO does
a great job.
And she has us out there front and center and people
landed on our site and I'm telling you our sales in
January and February and half of March were like December all
over again.
And I know that's where they stemmed from.
So we grew our audience.
Most of those contacts,
they were first-time buyers.
And four days later we were shipping to them again.
And seven days later,
they be taking another shipment.
So I love expanding our customer base and getting our product
out there further.
We probably don't have any new products this year.
We had a couple of pieces last year that we didn't
get a chance to throw out there.
So they're a little bit new to our customer base this
year. It's tough for us to come up with completely new
product. When we are breaking down the post-consumer sweaters that we
use, we have a lot of limitations.
So we're cutting around arm holes and side scenes.
And it's not like yards of fabric on a roll.
The sky's not the limit.
So when we kind of tool a way to break down
those sweaters into our new product,
it takes a lot to get that product or that process
into place.
So completely new product is tough for us.
We try to come out with one or two things a
year. We hardly retire anything every,
and then something is slow and we'll take it off from
our list of things.
But then our line grows pretty big and it's kind of
hard to continue to make an all of our color ways
and right.
No, I mean,
what I'm hearing from you is you're staying in your lane.
You know,
you know what you offer,
couple of style variations are fine.
Still every single piece is unique unto itself.
Anyway, even if it's the same basic pattern of how the
size is and everything.
So you almost have a built in uniqueness.
Every single piece is different.
Yeah. I mean coffee,
cause we want to stay fresh with our customers.
However, there are things like,
okay, so they are fingerless gloves,
which is our number one seller alongside of our mittens.
People will come into our store and say,
oh my gosh,
I'm buying my sips pair of these.
And we feel like,
oh, we need to offer a different styles.
So we do,
we have a second style.
But with other things it's tough.
Like our mittens,
you can't add a second thumb and call it a new
style, but we've done little things like we offer our classic.
Woman's now with the option of a buckskin Palm for driving.
And that's another thing a lot of our customers ask for
something. And when we hear it enough,
we know it's go time to maybe try something or it
spawns a new idea.
So we get a lot of our ideas from customers that
we run with.
And that is one of them.
The other thing is we have a nice little men's line.
Guys were coming in all the time.
What about us?
And we're like,
what about them?
Why don't we do so we can make some small,
like you said,
adjustments to some of our products to expand our line without
it being too much of a challenge,
Right? You're staying true to the product and what people know
you for.
You're just making some adjustments within the whole product range.
Correct. And you know,
I would say over the course of our time,
our practice has just gotten better,
more better made.
And our quality is just really top notch.
And not that we didn't always sell a good product,
but we're always looking for ways to tweak the quality and
the fit.
So even little things like that,
little changes that don't make it a completely new product,
we feel we've made it a better product.
Well, I can endorse the product quality for sure.
Thank you.
If people who are listening want to go check out your
products, where would you send them?
So we are@babazuzu.com
and that's B a B a Z U Z u.com.
You can check in with us right here and ask if
there's somebody who sells our product in your backyard.
We had to do a little zip code check here,
but we're having to do that for you.
We also have an Amazon store and an Etsy store,
so you can find us there under as well.
Well, Sue,
thank you so much.
I really appreciate you being on the show,
pulling back the curtain a little bit and letting us see
what goes on at Baba Zuzu from start to where you
are now.
That's the opportunity.
Good stuff.
Yes. I talk in my makers MBA program about,
you need to make sure that your product and business practices
stay relevant with the times Sue's leadership and direction of the
bapa Zuzu brand is a perfect demonstration of this next week.
I'm taking you to the movies,
think the Sundance channel and HBO,
any ideas on what the topic is.
Find out.
First thing Monday morning,
when this episode goes live,
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So it's a great way to pay it forward.
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