Hello everyone.

It's Dennis and Leah and hi Leah.

Hey Dennis.

Welcome back for another episode of Connect & Convert

brought to you by the Wizard Academy.

Here's where you learn insider secrets.

To help small business owners grow sales faster than ever.

Hey, Leah, today, this is a topic I get a lot of questions about this.

Maybe you've had some concerns and questions.

What do you want from your next sales manager?

You're a small business owner, okay?

And all of a sudden, it becomes obvious you need to hire a new sales manager.

Maybe the incumbent isn't working out.

Maybe you've never had a sales manager.

What should you be looking for?

Okay, the sales manager position, we've all worked for sales managers.

Some of us have been sales managers.

This is one of the most crucial, and I think probably the least appreciated

job in the building sometimes.

The dreaded middle manager.

Yeah.

The sandwich manager you're in between you are caught.

The sales manager is caught in between the boss or the owner, of course, who you work

for and the clients who you also work for.

And of course your salespeople, you're caught right in the middle.

I call it the pressure cooker.

So Leah, I.

I just wondered, you've, worked for probably a lot

of different sales managers.

I have.

I have been a sales manager.

Why do you think we so often as small business owners make mistakes

about hiring sales managers?

I think a lot of the time it's because we don't really

understand the role that we're hiring for.

You're giving up a lot of control if you've never had a sales manager before

and suddenly you're going to have someone that's going to be liaisoning

between what you want to do and what you want your business, your your

salespeople to do for your customers.

And then, and it's that dreaded, are you hiring yourself?

You're hiring somebody with skills that are different than yours.

I always believe in reverse engineering this.

I have had sales managers that I love.

I have had sales managers that honestly.

It was a terrible experience.

So what made it that way?

And the people that hired them, why did they have me working for these people?

Yep, that's the question that a lot of business owners are asking.

And you put a point on it.

So let's, help our listeners try to understand this.

Sometimes you can learn about what you should do by learning

the things that you should not do.

So I'm sure, Leah, as I go through this, you will have some examples some thoughts

about some of these and chime in please.

First of all, seven things that you should not do as a small business owner when

you're trying to hire a new sales manager.

Number one, don't rely solely on just resumes.

Interview deeply.

How about don't underestimate the importance of EQ.

What is EQ?

We know what IQ is.

EQ is emotional intelligence.

Okay?

The ability to listen, to collaborate, to lead.

Is that, how does that hit you, Leah, when you think about

sales managers you've known?

The EQ level.

High, medium, or low.

The emotion, the ability to connect with people,

to not be above people, makes me think of a really good coach.

Most people have had some experience with sports, either you've played it.

You've watched it on TV.

Your kids have played it.

The coaches that really get the kids their, athletes are the

ones that are connected with them and make them want to do more.

They're not telling them to do more.

They want to do more.

Isn't that the essence of coaching?

Truly.

How about another don't do?

Don't.

Forget to take time to validate past performance, accomplishments, their

responsibilities, their references.

Boy, did I ever get burned on this.

I had a guy that I hired as a sales manager.

He had the best resume.

He had all the pedigree.

He had the education.

And he documented on the resume a track record.

I didn't do a particularly good job of verifying that information,

and it came back to bite me.

Unfortunately, he was not a capable person.

He could not lead.

He was not a leader.

He looked like a leader.

He talked like a leader, but his performance was not that of a leader.

Did that ever hurt?

That cost me time, money, aggravation, embarrassment.

Go down the list.

Right?

It could even cost you a really good salesperson because

honestly, yes, you've hired someone.

And then they're ready to leave or they're not performing.

They're upset and they pick that day to go feed the ducks because

they're not working for this guy.

It almost did.

I had to save a couple of people, but costly mistake.

Learn from my stupidity and mistakes.

Don't do it.

Don't do what I did in that case.

I learned though.

I never did that again.

Another one, get multiple perspectives in the interview.

I had a rule.

In my radio stations, I call it a round of three.

And what does that mean?

Okay.

So every possible candidate had to be in every viable candidate had to

be interviewed by three managers.

Okay.

The hiring manager, the person who they were going to work for and

two other managers on the team that they were not going to work for.

Why perspective.

So then we would all three meet.

And we would talk about, okay, here's what I heard in every case, 100

percent of the time, the other folks heard and saw something either good

or bad that I, missed the round of three worked extremely well for me.

I also once saw an interview process

and I was involved in it.

I wasn't being hired as a sales manager, but my spouse and I were interviewed

by the person I was going to be working for and you think, okay, that's kind of

weird, but really I was going to be in a position that was, it was going to be

important to know that it was supported, that who I was, what my life looked like.

And although it was kind of strange for Sean at the time, it made a lot of sense.

And this company kind of got away from that and then back to it, but it's always.

Yeah.

I mean, I would call this the round four of interviews.

It's that, okay, how are they interacting with their spouse?

Do they have their support?

Is this a position that they're going to be able to move forward

having a secure foundation at home?

That's another twist.

Boy, I never did that.

Maybe I wish I had in some cases, but that's a great idea.

Also here's one that sometimes slips by.

The small business owner.

Be aware of communication style mismatches.

Now, what does that mean?

We've done episodes here before on the four social styles, okay?

Driver, analytical, expressive, and amiable, okay?

And, I use this assessment, I just use it this week, I use it constantly.

to discover a person's social styles.

Why?

So that we can understand how they process information.

Now, you can't use that document as a pre hiring document because there's

no right or wrong social style.

It's difficult.

It's, not really useful as a pre employment, but get an

idea in the interview of, does their style match your team?

If you have a high analytical, someone who's numbers oriented, data

driven, and your team is expressive.

Which is data averse.

They hate data.

That could be a mismatch.

Unless there's high versatility.

Okay.

How about culture clashes, culture classes?

You know, our producer Boomer is an expert in the area of company culture.

One of these days we're going to have producer Boomer on this show as a

guest to talk about business culture.

Skill fit is important.

Of course it is, but make sure they share your values.

Your work style preferences, your overall business approach, that can be

a big no no for a new sales manager.

How about highly skilled top level salesperson?

That's the best candidate for sales manager, right?

Often not, often not it's a totally different skill set.

And I'm not saying that someone can't be very good at selling and

also very good at managing, but wow, that's a hard double whammy.

Then you have someone who's more even as a sales manager, more

selling versus more administrative.

These are important designations to think about as you're looking at who you're

going to be hiring because yes, you might have this fantastic team and this guy is

just blowing the numbers out of the park.

But can he help other people do that?

Is he someone that is willing to coach others or is it always

about me?

I have seen this happen in the radio industry.

I was in the industry for decades and it was very common for the top salesperson

to be promoted to sales manager.

That was the next logical step in progression and 90 percent

of the time it didn't work.

You are so right.

It's a different skill set from an individual contributor to a manager.

It does not equate.

Does that mean no one who's a top salesperson can do it?

No.

But be very careful.

Don't be blinded by the fact that they're a top salesperson.

That means they're a top sales manager.

That kind of goes back to something we talked about, the

halo effect, in a previous episode.

Don't let that halo effect fool you, okay?

So, okay, those are the things you shouldn't do.

Hey, shouldn't we talk about the things you should do, Leah?

Yes, let's be positive.

Let's, let's look at that.

Let's talk about seven things you should look for.

Number one, you said it earlier, speak to this, if you will, coaching skills.

What is the difference between teaching, mentoring and coaching?

It's different.

Absolutely.

So when you're coaching you're, in there like a dirty shirt.

Maybe on the, I'm thinking of hockey, you're on the ice

and you're you're doing it.

You are, have that ability to do it with your team, but teaching

is a little bit different.

And when you think of teaching, okay, we always go back to the whiteboard.

We go back to the, the handouts that that, teachers have.

It's the ability to transfer knowledge.

It's, there's this and away we go.

You can teach something and not be able to do it.

You know, there's the old saying, you know, those who can,

can't teach and then mentoring.

Do you really care about your team?

Are you able to put your arm around them and lead them to where they want to go?

Now that's not always the fault of the mentor.

Sometimes people don't want to be mentored.

It's like, I know this already.

Now.

Some people don't want to be bothered,

And that's where coaching comes in because if you have someone

that can't be taught is not wanting to be mentored, they're not in the student mold.

And as a coach, you got to figure out pretty quick, do

they belong on the team or not?

We see this happen in the the million dollar salaries with professional sports.

And I go back to sports because to me, sales and sports are very closely aligned.

I I love your distinction between the three,

of all of those, I think the most misunderstood is the coaching.

Okay.

I look at a good coach as being someone who.

Is not you can be a teacher and not a coach.

You can be a mentor and not a coach.

Okay, but a coach uses what's in you to bring out the best in you.

Okay, they use what's in you They bring it out by asking questions Leah

"What do you think you could have done differently on that sales call

Something you could do the next time that would give you a better outcome?"

that's the voice of a coach I'm not teaching you anything.

A coach, it's, it's a trait that it doesn't matter if that person

is, if it's one of their sales people.

Okay.

You're, hiring a coach to look after your sales team.

But that person, if they have the trait of being a coach, when you see

them in other aspects of their life.

There's someone who wants to make a difference.

There's someone who wants to help.

That will be for your team, but when they're talking to you, okay,

are they just blowing sunshine or are they talking like a coach

when you look on their socials?

Because man, if you're just looking at resumes and you're not

looking at what they're posting.

What are they posting about?

Are they coaching the people in their lives?

Are they involved in other things?

A coach is not something that you can teach.

You are a coach or you're not.

I, yeah, I think it's intuitive.

I do.

I agree with you.

You can teach somebody coaching skills, but to have that inner

coach, I think that's something that's more intuitive than learned.

let's talk about another one of the things you should look for.

How about exceptional one on one?

Group and written communication skills.

You know, every business is in the communications business.

And if you hire a sales manager who can't communicate You've just hampered yourself.

You've made a big mistake.

So check their, communication skills.

How about a strong understanding of sales process?

That's, that kind of sounds like duh, but you'd be surprised how many

sales managers get hired that don't understand the entire sales process

from prospecting to closure and client retention after the sale and follow up.

And that is critical.

That is critical because, and again, let's look at this, a strong

understanding of the process.

You're not saying a strong salesperson.

Those are two different things.

A lot of the best salespeople I've ever worked with had no idea how they

were doing it, but to be able to teach, yeah, you've got to understand it.

What do they call it at the Wizard Academy?

Unconscious incompetence, something like that, or conscious incompetence

and unconscious incompetence.

Or unconscious competence.

Or unconscious competence.

Yes.

Oh, crap.

I'm getting these all mixed up, but they're, they're all, well, I know

what you, that's another podcast.

We'll do that.

That's that.

How about strategic thinkers?

You know, sales managers that I hired back in the day, I, kind of

required them to think strategically.

What does that mean?

Well, talk to me about how you're going to manage the accounts,

our business, our clients.

How about territories or account lists or whatever you have?

How about pricing?

Pricing management?

That's critical strategic thinking.

How about negotiation skills?

How are you at negotiation?

How about creative solutions to problems?

The ability to establish and manage the key sales metrics.

These are all strategic things that my new sales manager needs to do.

But also when they're answering, sorry Dennis, but when

they're answering that question, that also gives you some insight

into what kind of person are they?

Because are they just plowing ahead with this is how they've always

done it, this is what they believe, this is what they're gonna do?

Are they open to talking with their sales team?

Are they open to your process?

Are they willing to sit back and learn?

Now, it depends where it is that you are in the hiring process, but what

you need is going to be revealed when they're talking or what you don't want

is going to be revealed when they're explaining what their process is.

And that's why we, interview deeply to find these things out.

Let's round up the last three here.

Solution focused.

Okay.

That I don't want a sales manager coming into my office with a problem.

I want them coming in with a problem that has a solution that they have figured out.

How about a winning record of performance?

Yeah.

Remember we talked about that earlier.

Verify their track record.

Verify the fact that they can grow revenue, work for previous

employers, by managing a team.

Not just themselves, but a team.

And last, number seven, technical savvy.

I don't think we can get around that this day and age.

You've got to understand the technical part of the business.

Understand data, understand how data is used to enhance sales,

understand all things technology.

So,

and not be afraid of it.

You can't be afraid of it.

And that's part of being savvy.

That's why we have Boomer, right?

Because there's stuff that he knows and we know where to find that information.

That's being savvy.

It doesn't mean we have to know everything, but we have to be open

to asking and have someone to ask.

Yeah, I'm afraid of it.

You are not.

You are not.

Let's close this out with some pluses and minuses.

Okay, let's, let's look at the upsides and downsides of

getting that right sales manager.

Let me start with the negatives.

Unfortunately, the poor leadership, lack of direction for, from a poor

sales manager, demoralize salespeople.

They're going to leave.

And I unfortunately had that happen.

Remember, people fire their immediate boss, not the company.

They fire their immediate boss.

So, the negativity leads to increased attrition.

The lack of accountability.

I'm a big stickler on accountability.

Who's responsible for what and when?

Okay?

That new that, sales manager who's not performing, who is not accountable, lacks

direction, lacks a sense of urgency.

Has low performance standards.

That's going to not only not enhance your business, it's going to take it

the other way in a downward direction.

And the third, the third negative is inconsistent customer experience.

Client management is uneven and reactive.

How do we manage our clients?

How do we retain our clients?

Those are the three negatives.

How about the positives?

How about you're the boss, Leah.

You own a business.

And you're doing a DIY sales manager.

You're doing a do it yourself sales manager.

How does that work out for you?

Here's the thing.

You want to be a business owner.

You don't want to be a job owner.

That's the whole point of getting into business.

So when you can find the right person.

to delegate that kind of authority to, to help you grow your business,

who's going to share your passion for what it is that you're doing.

My goodness, you are freeing yourself up to actually work on your business,

not work in your business, but work on it, make it grow faster, be able

to have a bird's eye view and trust the person that you're hiring.

That is huge.

That to me is one of the best points as to why you need to recruit

that, that quality sales manager work.

In your business, work on your business, not in your business.

Well said.

How about the sales manager is close if they're doing their

job, a good sales manager can identify where we need improvement.

One of the best ways, by the way, to grow your business is hiring

that effective sales manager.

That does grow business when you have an effective sales manager.

And of course, make sure that you get the right blend.

Sales leadership abilities.

Strategic skills and people skills.

Gosh, I think we just described the perfect person

that doesn't exist out there.

But you know what, there's nothing wrong

with having that perfect matrix.

And then you weigh different things as you meet the individual, there are.

It's surprising things about working for people.

With people, there's always going to be that positive and that negative,

but it can bring out incredible opportunities with your team.

It can make them see parts of themselves they've never seen before,

and it can make you see parts of your business you haven't before.

It's all in the right person, because we've said it before, Dennis.

Product, you can teach anybody product, but the type of person,

that's what you're looking for.

Do you trust them?

Do you want to take them, spend time with them?

Do you see them as someone who is as committed to your passion,

your business as you are?

Well, again, that is so true.

Easy to say, not easy to do, but give it a shot.

Okay, I hope this has been helpful in guiding your thinking

towards your new sales manager.

Connect & Convert is brought to you by The Wizard Academy.

I remember my first time ever going there, Leah, do you?

Oh, absolutely.

Absolutely.

And you know what?

You learn and you get inspired and all of a sudden you see possibilities

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Wizardacademy.

org.

Check out the courses.

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applied to yourself and to your business.

Check them out.

WizardAcademy.org.

This concludes this episode of Connect & Convert.

I hope we've given you some insider tips on how to improve your sales.

We'll see you next time.

For Leah, it's Dennis.

Bye now.