one verse doctrines are a cancer to the body of Christ. and they're so prevalent.

Welcome back to Revelation Revealed. I'm kind of titling this, everything you've wondered about Revelation and what it really says. The dragons, the bowls, the mark, the trumpets, and of course that ominous 6, 6, 6, that, people have heard about and used and thrown around. Revelation is full of symbols and questions that can confuse people, but what if those images made perfect sense? Mostly perfect sense to the people who first heard them. In this episode, Leo de Sequeira is back. He helps us walk through Revelation the way the early church did with eyes on Jesus and confidence in his kingdom. Let's look at what Revelation really says. And what it doesn't. Our guest is Leo d Sequeira, theologian, and author of a three-part commentary series on Revelation that sinners around first century context, the Aramic language, and the victory of Christ. If you missed the first episode, make sure you go back 'cause that's where we kind of went over the foundation. In this episode, we're gonna be actually diving into Revelation. I highly recommend you go back, but this one will stand on its own too. Leo, welcome back.

Hey, good to be back, Tim.

So one thing I think we missed, maybe in this first one that I wanna kind of get started with as we get started with some of these exciting topics like The Beast and Babylon, and might even throw in a little bit of rapture and, you know, talk about where that is in Revelation. And so you could point to those scriptures for us. Tell us about the language. I didn't get into this in the first one, but Aramaic, you kind of consider yourself somewhat of a linguist and the language that this was written in or spoken in or was shared in is kind of important. Talk a little bit about that before we dive into some of these exciting topics.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. So, just by way of of clarification, I did have the opportunity to study, Hebrew and Greek in Bible college or seminary. And, Aramaic is very similar to Hebrew. So I was able to you know, what I'd learned and start to learn how to, go through the Aramaic version of the New Testament. And, thank God for, bible translation software as well. That certainly helps. And so, you know, I'm, by no means a teacher, but certainly have been able to learn enough to go through the text. I really became obsessed with just trying to unearth and dig as much as possible, and I'd say really felt like an Indiana Jones experience. Just, I just wanna unearth as much as I can. I don, I, you know, I have no regard for theological camps or trying to uphold a specific view. It's just like, I just wanna know what what's there, and then I'll wrestle with whatever I discover. One thing. Never really sat with me is, you know, modern scholarship is convinced that everything is Greek, that Jesus spoke Greek, everybody spoke Greek and everything was written in Greek. And okay, perhaps, there's too many tell signs even in the New Testament that suggests otherwise, you know? And I just wasn't convinced of that. so just started to do some digging. Realized that we have. an Aramaic New Testament that still exists today. It's not the original, right? like the Hebrew Bible that we read today is not the original Hebrew, right? That's a eighth and ninth century edition. Right by the Maites. That's why it's called the ma text. And you know, the Greek that we have today is not original, so we have to accept those things. And the Aramaic too. But it certainly is, it points back the earliest manuscripts, which I do believe were, were, composed in Aramaic. You know, maybe not every book of the New Testament, but certainly a lot of them, I believe would've been composed in Aramaic. And if anything, the apostles, that was their first language. Right. And we have a lot of contextual evidence. We have a lot of historical evidence for this. That whole region, Aramaic was the lingua franca, Is the primary language of that region. And you know, even you read through the Gospel of John, it's like, and then he came to this place, which an Aramaic was, and then, you know. He was crucified here, which in Aramaic was called. It's like, well, why would you mention that it's in Aramaic if nobody spoke it or referenced it. Right? So it's just really fascinating, little tidbits. And what I found is going through the Aramaic text is that there's really some subtle nuances to the Greek were actually quite enlightening. for instance in Revelation 11, the Greek Bible talks about, outside of the temple being destroyed, but the Aramaic actually talks about the inside of the temple, being destroyed. And that was really fascinating because that's kind of the key event of 70 ad is, you know, at this time it was Titus that they went right into the holy place and they sacked it. They took all the gold, and then tragically a Roman soldier set it all on fire. And that's why the holy. Of holies burned down and all the temple burned down. But it's like this prophecy of John actually calling out the fact that that was gonna happen. You only find that in the Aramaic, not in the Greek. Right. So there's some really interesting, subtle nuances there. the other fascinating thing, and this is less to do with Revelation, but more to do with soteriology, the doctrine of salvation is The Greek talks about salvation. You know, what must I do to be saved? Right? That famous question that somebody asked Jesus, the word saved in Aramaic is, is not the word saved at all. It's not soso, it's actually the word life. And if you swap out every instance in the New Testament where you see the word saved for life, takes on a whole new meaning. So the man who comes to Jesus, he says, what must I do? In order to have life, which is so much deeper than, you know, how do I get my fire insurance? Which is how we read that today. And you look at the gospels, especially John a Life is a central theme, death life. John, in fact, has an entire doctrine his writings, including revelation of a first death. And a second death of a first resurrection and a second resurrection. This is unique to John, and if you string everything that he's written together, you see thematically, he talks about a first death, a first resurrection, a second death, and a second resurrection, which is quite fascinating. These are very central, central themes, and again, the Aramaic really highlights those themes in a way that the Greek not.

It is fascinating. I believe it was about 10, maybe 12 years ago, my wife Gloria and I, we kind of decided we need to learn Hebrew.

Hmm.

And so we signed up for some online class and we started, we like to think we're okay. Smart. We found out we're not. It was tough. It was hard. and we unfortunately quit shortly into that process. but I do think all that you're saying, Leo highlights, while some of this. There's a simplicity to the story of the Bible. I don't like to oversimplify, but it does make more sense when you understand, but there's also these barriers that kind of keep us from really digging in. I love what you brought up. I don't wanna get off track with what I really wanted to cover in this episode. Maybe this will be episode three, but the mindset that many people currently have that we will put in the Christian camp. Is, like you said, fire insurance, that Jesus did what he did, just so we could accept that, have salvation and get to heaven. That's it. that is the ultimate story of the Bible and that that's not accurate. Correct.

You know, it was like a, um, it was, um, a minister slash scholar, about 150 years ago. I'd asked these questions like, where was the instruction manual in Genesis warning, Adam and Eve of Hell? Where was the instruction manual to Moses? Warning The Israelites of Hell. Right. And so it's fascinating and people think, oh, you know, Leo's talking about the fact that everybody dies. and goes to heaven, and you can live inconsequentially

Universalist. Oh, he's a universalist.

a universal list. And it's like, no, it, it's, we don't, we don't swing the pendulum from one end, one extreme to the other. That's simply ignorance. And that's not at all what I'm suggesting, but what I'm suggesting is our binary notion in or out, turn, or burn. Does not fit the biblical framework. There's something much broader at play, and so again, we have to just very simply ask ourselves if what I believe today is central to my faith, should be very clearly outlined instructions in the Bible from the beginning. Oddly you can't find it. While that's quite unfair then all those people who were living in that time. Right. So Adam and Eve went to hell not even being told that it exists. Hmm. That's

Didn't have a chance.

I digress.

Yeah, we digress and, and there's so much there that I don't know, we'll, maybe we could pick this up in episode three of, I believe that we don't quite grasp the concept of the writers of the New Testament, specifically Paul and others when they talk about life and death. I think we're so binary in that life and death. You know, when they talk about the second death and the, and the first and second. Anyway, that I think that might fit in a little bit to our episode three, which is where are we and where are we headed? But let's, let's dive into Revelation and, and what you did in your three book arc, which I do wanna say here again, how much they impacted my, my Wife and I's Journey. There were a number of books and we were reading hundreds, if not thousands as we've been on this journey, Totally go against what I believe is accurate and true. But I was reading it just to, I wanted to get it all, you know what I mean? I was really digesting a lot of stuff. I still have this chart on my computer where someone laid out the entire history of revelation and laid it out over the last 2000 years of history. You know, Catholic church being the antichrist and all that kind of stuff. Not accurate, but I just sort of keep it as a memento just to, you know, maybe might blow it up and put it on the wall or something like that. But, You've put together the, the books two and three is where you walk through what we would say the, you know, book two, I think you got up to chapter 12, and then in book three here, for some reason I don't have book two here with me for whatever reason. But you go through chapter 12 to 22 in, in the final book, which we'll talk a little bit about in episode three, but be before we go into some specifics. I want to say a few things that are observations of mine, and I want you to either pick 'em apart, agree, disagree, expound on them or whatever. As I read Revelation in the early sections and I just read it again kind of in one sitting morning before last in preparation for this conversation. To me, after you get through the. Churches list, it sounds like a courtroom type judgment scene early on, and I bring that up to ask, is there a general way we could look at what the revealing of Christ. Is as we kinda step into Revelation and, and you could tell me that doesn't make sense or a little bit or whatever,

You

is that too much?

the incredible weight of prophetic writings is that they are immediate and timeless. I mean, how often have you, even gone to like Jeremiah or Ezekiel and found comfort in some of the verses, right? It's like thousands of years later. How is that possible? And that really is the weight of prophetic literature, is that it is both for an immediate context, and that is consistent throughout the Bible. Every prophetic book had an immediate audience and yet timeless, and I think that's certainly the case for the book of Revelation. And so it would be ignorant to dismiss either side of that. There is an immediacy the sense of Christ is revealing himself as true and faithful to his word. Christ is revealing himself to be the one that he proclaimed himself to be. Christ is revealing himself as the one to fulfill what he spoke. To those where he said, this generation will not pass away. Heaven and earth may pass away, but my words will not pass away. He's revealing himself as the one who is true and faithful. He's revealing himself as the one who's told his churches, who are being persecuted, who are persevering as the one who is coming. There's the revelation then of the fact that he is the high priest, right? It what's really amazing is John sees Jesus walking through, and again, the Greek says he's walking amongst the stands. The Aramaic actually says he's walking amongst the menorah. So we have this temple imagery of the high priest. In the, we'll call it the heavenly tabernacle. The heavenly temple, high priest is walking through as the one. And then what do we immediately see? The high priest is also the sacrifice, the lamb, who was slain and as victorious. He's revealing himself to beek, right? And then what we start to see is the revelation of. The unfolding, the unwinding of the end of this mosaic age and the tragic consequences that are brought about. And then we also see a revelation of the age that is at hand and to come, which culminates in heaven earth becoming one, one.

Hmm. Gosh, I wanna dive into that. but because that's not the way a lot of people read Revelation,

Yeah.

they read it line by line. They're often looking at headlines and things like that. If you look at, we've, discussed in the first episode, Matthew 24, Jesus words. You know, if we go back to the origin of the mosaic covenant and the blessings and the curses, you know, back in, I guess Deuteronomy, I think is where those those are. And then we look at what is revealed in these. Chapters of Revelation and then also what we know about history Josephus. Do do all of those kind of start. Coming together. Do, does that make any sense? You know what I mean? Because I read some of the warnings. See, I came from a prosperity gospel. I've shared this with the listeners before. And so all I did in Deuteronomy was just, grabbed those blessings and I, shouted them, quoted 'em, wrote 'em on. I never looked at those curses. But when you look at those curses and then you look at what Josephus talks about actually occurred. And then you look at some of the things that we can look at in verse by verse. In Revelation, you weave Jesus words into it. To me, it just like explodes in my mind. All this is related.

Yeah, it is. the incredible thing is that God actually shows Moses what would happen. ultimately the people would go astray, right? and then the blessings and the curses, like you said. if you read those curses, it's verbatim, you see those curses echoed in Jesus' prophecies in Matthew 24. You see those curses echoed throughout the book of Revelation. then you see curses actually manifesting in real life as Josephus is chronicling what he's seeing. it's incredibly sobering, but it's all pointing to that event. you go back to Paul, right? You go back to the apostles understanding that they were living in a time where they're gonna start to see the curses of Deuteronomy come to pass. That's the sense of urgency. That's the heartbreak that they're feeling for their people.

Hmm. What can you say, I know you wrote a book on this and this was one of your books I have not been able to read, but what can you tell us about the seven churches in the beginning of Revelation that we might need to know?

Yeah. Whew. You know, seven churches are both timeless. there's incredible, mystery of how these seven churches and the themes are woven and the sequence of churches, you know, and what is discussed. I mean, again, there's timeless aspects to it. There's prophetic aspects to it that touch all of us. at the same time, those were real locations. I mean, you can visit them today if you book a tour, right? A Holy Land tour. And, those places remnants. And you have to think of a time where there's no local church, right? You're not turning on the radio and listening to a preacher. You're not going to, you know, going to the local bookstore and, and you have like 35 versions of the viable to pick from. you, you had an encounter. That you cannot deny, and there's a small group of people who've had the same encounter and you congregate together. That was Christianity at that time. Nobody was walking in there with a Bible under their arm for Sunday morning church. I mean, was, there was something that was undeniable that they went literally from the Kingdom of darkness. In, in this pagan society or if you were a Jew, right? You have your, your mosaic context, but you had an encounter, you had an experience, you have the Holy Spirit, and you're hanging, you're hanging onto this, you know that this is true and this is what you have, and you are, you are facing heavy, heavy opposition from your countrymen. Again, early church was predominantly Jewish, right? So your countrymen are adamantly per persecuting. you Like you are in error. are exactly the type of person that Moses says we need a stone. Like there's heavy opposition. This is why Paul got stoned so many times. Like they're just following scripture and, you're like, Jesus, like we know that you are true. How long is this gonna last? And so Jesus comes to these pinnacle churches that were under John's pastorate to bring both. Correction and comfort, and we think that, you know, there's a level of intensity. You're like, wow, Jesus. You don't really feel like a, you know, that tender shepherd right now when you're talking to these churches, and I would suggest is, you know, when the stakes are high, right? let's say you take your kids hiking and you're, you've, you've hit the ridge of the mount. I'm, I'm, I'm near the Rocky Mountains. If you're near the Appalachians, maybe you have an understanding as well. But when you hit that ridge, there's parts along that ridge where it's, it's like life or death on either side. And so if your kids are following you and, and your their lives are on the line, you're gonna turn around and be like, don't go that way. We're not kidding around right now. And it's like, wow, dad, you're being really harsh and intense. It's like, yeah, I, I, I can see falling right now. Like, not the time for tenderness. Like this is real. This is happening. This is the narrow path right now. And that's the intensity that Jesus has. Why? Because those people. We're gonna witness their whole world turned upside down. So the, the people that were persecuting them were gonna fall by the sword or be sold in a slave trade. Right? Very, very heavy stuff. even in the Roman Empire, the Roman Empire went through incredible turmoil and ne nerom commit suicide. There's three different coups of different people trying to vie for power nations that were under the Roman. started to rebel, right? There was, there was squames and stuff like that. it just became And literally it was the year of chaos that happened. It was called the year of the four emperors. And so you're living in those times and you're like, it's the end of the world. What's, what's gonna, and so Jesus is like, this is the path forward. And so he

Mm.

Because of the intensity, what's gonna be going on around you?

We also know there was quite a bit of turmoil within Jerusalem and within the leadership of Israel, correct? I mean, weren't there coups and all type stuff going on there? So there was a shaking, I'll use that word.

yeah. Huge.

of the end of days that we look back and go, oh no, it wasn't the end of days. No. If we were there, we would have felt it. So, do you believe that the churches were literal or symbolic or Both.

Both

Okay. Good.

percent both.

Okay.

there were real, real congregations for sure. Right. We have early church evidence for that as well. and we have early church fathers that succeeded John and the pastor of those churches. Right. So we have a lot of early church evidence for that. But there were also, they're symbolic.

Yeah.

I find comfort in reading through what Jesus says to those churches. Even today.

Right.

many who would be listening right now do as well.

Yeah, in the last episode we talked about the dating of Revelation, and I'll let people go back and listen to that, but one of the things that you see in Revelation is some very clear, I don't wanna say timing and, and I know we have to be careful about literal versus symbolic, but in both the beginning and the end, there is a. This is soon. This is going to happen soon. maybe you have some insight into the Aramaic if it's different, but was there the thought that this was going to happen 2000 years from now, or was it going to be soon? What? Tell me what soon means.

Yeah, I mean there's seven time posts mentioned, and all relating to the urgency, right? So this is about to take place, this is about to take place. This is about to take place, you know, so whether you wanna translate it as soon or quickly or swiftly, none of those words mean long distant delay, right? So it's really nuances, but. can't escape the fact that there is an immediacy and an urgency. And, you know, the envelope of revelation is that it begins and ends with pastoral exhortation. So there's the pastoral, like it's, now it's happening, and then in the middle is like, here's the prophetic significance of why. And that's the middle of Revelation. That's the core. So on both sides, there's the immediate boots in the ground like, I see you, I'm with you. I know you. Right? Jesus talking to his church at that time. then at the core of Revelation is this is the prophetic explanation of what you are about to see.

Hmm. It's interesting to me how people will say that Jesus, in what he said in Matthew 24, was symbolic, but in the same breath, they will say that revelation verse by verse is literal. What would you say to someone that is going to attempt to take verse by verse by verse in Revelation and literally attempt to interpret that?

Yeah. You know there there's two things. Two critical flaws. So first of all, we've inherited, know, ever since the scientific revolution, people decided to take a scientific approach to the Bible. So the Bible, if you look at church history, always embraced as a corpus, a corpus of scripture. Jesus embraced the Old Testament as a corpus of scripture because on the Emmaus Road walk. It, it says like, from Moses of the prophets. He showed how he was revealed in that. And then all of a sudden we got into this mindset of dissecting verse by verse. So we've already missed it in, in our approach. Scientific revolution destroyed, biblical scholarship, and that's the first flaw. So we have to understand how our fathers those who went before us actually approached scripture. Going all the way back to Jesus, Jewish sages as well, have that outlook on the Bible. And the second thing is, we don't understand the law of Moses. We don't understand the law and the prophets nearly enough, and we don't understand first century history nearly enough. You can't talk about the book of Revelation without having at least a decent grasp of the law and the prophets. A lot of my footnoting to try to fast track the reader's baseline understanding in order to comprehend. In other words, I'm a first century Jew from John instructions. What would I have known as a first century Jew? That's the gap that we must fill if we're to approach that book.

Hmm. Okay. So

it around you. You take

yeah.

century Jew and show 'em an Instagram feed, they're, they're gonna be, what the heck is going on here? So what context would they need to understand what we take for granted? You're flipping through your feed. There's technology references, there's government references, right? There's political stuff going on. There's new cultural norms, like where do you even begin to contextualize somebody so that they can understand what you take for granted? It's very simple, so you just flip it around and you're like, oh yeah, you know what? I have to recreate an entire world. In my mind to then understand how that person might have received this information.

And, I think it's so dang arrogant. this was my experience in Bible school. Gosh, I love them. I really do love Christians. I'm critical of them at times, so I wanna qualify that. I really do love Christians, but hanging out with them in the environment I was in, I really was getting frustrated with the plucking of a scripture. To attempt to apply it to something politically or in our world today. I do believe we can learn from it and glean from it. We have to, but without any context of the overall biblical narrative or the biblical story. And that's one of the things I think that's been driving me. I believe we're going to get into that a little bit in our final episode, but what I'd love to do now, Leo, I think this is a hangup for a lot of people, and that is some things that they have had drilled into them. Brainwashed would be another good word that are biblical, that are in Revelation that exist. I know that you're a deeper thinker and I know that from your writing and from our talking, you like to expound on things. But I think to wrap up this episode, I would almost like to do some rapid fire questions about some hot topics. That nag at people every time we bring this topic up, because they've been taught it over and over again. You know how Lindsey Little Lake, great Planet Earth, one of the most widely sold books, they've seen it in that they thought that Henry Kissinger was the Antichrist or Bill Clinton or whatever. They read all the left behind books like I did. Sorry about that. But, but let, let's hit some topics. I know you go, you go through Revelation in your books, and so for people that want something that goes through, that's what the books are for. But let's hit some things real quick. Where in the Bible or Revelation will we find the description of the rapture?

You won't there.

What? Okay. How about other parts of the Bible? Maybe not Revelation, maybe Thessalonians, there's a scripture somewhere in Thesal. I'm being sarcastic for those that can't pick up on it. Where? Come on now. I've built my whole world around that. I'm gonna escape from all of this stuff.

yeah, yeah. First Thessalonians talk about being caught up. Right. And, and the coming, coming of our Lord and isolating that verse and just, you know, stopping there is, is what took place. Right. And again, in ignorance because it, again, it's the corpus of scripture, not the isolation of verses. I mean, one verse doctrines are a cancer to the body of Christ. and they're so prevalent. What, that, what Paul is talking about. And again, go read 1st Corinthians 15, which Paul also wrote, which I will call perfect ex eschatology. By the way, If you want a Cole's Notes version of the book of Revelation or, or End Times or anything like that. Just read first Corinthians 15. That one chapter sums it all up. It's fascinating. So what Paul talks is talking about is being caught up in the air. To not then continue to float away. Now we're now we're adding stuff in. He's talking about, he says to receive our Lord, we're actually ushering in the king. So this, the symbol of being caught up is so as to receive. In the same way that in, in ancient times across almost every culture, if your king returned from battle victorious, by the way, or if your king returned from a long journey, the people of that kingdom would come out of their gates in adoration, in admiration, and celebration to receive back their king. That is the image that we have. Look at Revelation 21. The new Jerusalem comes down from heaven to the renewed earth as a bride adorned for her bridegroom. the bridegroom? Jesus. So where is the consummation of matrimony taking place? It's right there in the book. on the ground that you're standing on, but renewed, made new like in Genesis two, and three before the fall, Eden restored here. and Earth won. So first the Thessalonians in isolation. You can deduct whatever you want, that's ignorance because you're missing the corpus of scripture, right? One Corinthians 15 talks about the great resurrection and receiving earth suits, Paul's like, Hey, you know how Jesus received this new body when he was raised? He could like eat fish and walk through walls and disappear from plain sight, but they could also touch him. And the holes were there. That body, we're getting that body the great resurrection takes place. Why? Because we're gonna be in a realm where heaven and earth are one. Powerful, powerful, Stu. It's in the book. You just gotta read it.

Yeah, we'll look at that more too. 'cause that's that.

That's to

That's that. What's coming and what's next? We'll look at here. All right. Couple other things. the beast. 6, 6, 6,

Yeah.

the beast where, what's up with the beast?

Yeah. so there's two wild animals. That's what the, that's what the word is. Two, two wild animals. one's a leopard, one's a ram. they're not Godzilla, unfortunately. It's, it's, you just gotta read the woods. You know? It's, it's just

That'd be kind Cool though.

funky

I visual. I.

A funky looking leopard and a, funky looking bighorn sheep. it's what they represent that matters, the leopard representing Rome and I talk about it at length in, book number three. 'cause that's chapter 13 of Revelation. 6, 6, 6. the first beast is Rome. Second beast is Apostate Israel. very key to understand beasts in Revelation 13. Rome, apostate, Israel. 6, 6, 6. emphatically, neuro, using Hebrew letters. As numerical values, which is very commonplace. And to even take that a step further, um, some, if you've ever done a really deep dive in 6, 6, 6, you've come across the 6 1 6 variant as well. there's some very early Coptic writings and these were like Egyptian Christians, they wrote 6 1 6. Why? Because in Coptic language, neuro, values in their translation worked out to 6 1 6. there's no way of escaping the fact that this was pointing to a very specific person.

Hmm. Okay. Gosh, let me think real quick here. The two witnesses that people talk about and try to project into future, what can you tell us just briefly about the two witnesses?

Moses and Elijah Law on the Prophets law. On the prophets testify there. it's what was written there that is coming to pass the

Right.

of breach of covenant.

Okay. Um, to sarcasm alert here, let me just go ahead and preface where in Revelation does it talk about the rebuilding of the temple, finding the red heifers, getting everything together so that the temple can be rebuilt, so that we could prepare for the next coming and all, and the nation of Israel being restored.

no more, and in, in,

On Leo.

in fact, you know, I, I'll, I'll be perhaps even crass enough to say that, you know, you're, you're getting, you're, you're almost tinkering with like, you know, a opposing the gospel at this point. I don't know how you can read the book of Hebrews. And then think that there's gonna be a rebuilding of a temple. Like it, it's the, the ignorance required to be seduced into that worldview, right? Is like you're dismissing sections of the New Testament to support a doctrine that is inconsequential. To God's story and what he means to accomplish with humanity. Inconsequential. It is astounding how many people have bought into that in ignorance. they might be well-meaning they are tragically deceived.

Yeah, it's very discouraging. For me to hear that there are Christian groups and churches, well-known ministers that are raising money right now to contribute to a temple being rebuilt in Jerusalem. I'm just going, what are they teaching, preaching? it does make for keeping people coming back every week.

Yeah.

you know, some of the messages that we're speaking about here, I don't wanna say it's one and done. We could keep talking about it, but it doesn't create something exciting. Every time there's an event that occurs in the world, it's established. one last thing on this episode I have in my mind, I don't know if I've been oversimplifying it, but this will kind of prep us for our final episode that I believe we have time to get in, before we're finished our time together today, I have been looking at the first 19 chapters of Revelation as being roughly. Already occurred or occurred in and around that 80, 70 time period. I think a lot of people are too.

Mm-hmm.

Is that somewhat accurate? And we're gonna look at 2021 and 22 in this next episode, but talk to me about that as we finish up this episode two.

Yeah. the first few verses of Revelation 20, were fulfilled in that seven 80 D event. Yeah,

Yeah, and it really helps to look at that and we didn't talk about the storytelling and the code. I think that maybe John May have written it in, but I think just knowing that those first 19 chapters occurred.

Yeah,

Around 80, 70 really kind of helps people with their understanding. Would you agree with that?

A hundred percent. I mean, put yourself in the shoes of a, of one of the handful of Gentiles that would've converted right in the first century. And you're reading Book of Revelation. I mean, you've not studied the law, right? you don't, you're not familiar with the culture revelation's just gibberish before you, right.

Yeah.

Revelation is simply every verse almost. from Revelation five onward is just hyperlinking some sort of prophecy, some sort of event, some sort of Old Testament theme. if you had a mouse, you'd be scrolling over the verses and it would just be giving you scripture verses scripture verse like, it's, there's hundreds, hundreds. Of Old Testament references as you read through, chapters five to 19. So how could you have expected somebody was not a Jew outside of the law to be able to understand what was happening? Meanwhile, somebody who was brought up in that culture and environment would've immediately picked up on the illusions in the illustrations. Like the Song of Moses makes no sense to. Somebody in Rome, right? A first century Roman in Rome. What does he care about? The Song of Moses. But as a Jew, I know that the song of Moses was a prophecy that God gave to Moses, saying, when the time comes in the future, when this people group goes astray and the curses of the law come to pass, you will sing this song, or they will sing this song, and then God gives Moses this song basically saying like, this is why this is happening to us. That's right in book of Revelation. So that's only gonna make sense for somebody who grew up in that environment. 'cause they're gonna be like, and then the song of Moses was sung. It's like, oh my goodness, the calamities of Deuteronomy are happening. Right? It, it's like immediately you understand if you knew the context.

That's good. Well, we busted up a few things here by, throwing. In that rapture out and no red heifers. I hate to disappoint people. We'll see if that's gonna still have people listening in. But here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna stop now and next time what Leo and I are gonna do. 'cause I, gosh, we had a conversation a while back and I love where he goes, especially with his third book, Dawn of Eternity. I'll go ahead and share with you at the early part of this next episode how it nest with me a little bit. But we'll look at things like the millennium, the Dragon, Satan's short time, and possibly what the future holds based on scripture, not based on. Fake timelines and different things like that, maybe the most important conversation about how we live today. Leo, I appreciate you. This has been awesome. thanks for joining us here at Seek Go Create for this episode two and make sure you come back for episode three, which is kind of a, where are we now? The final vision in that short time of Satan. Until next time, thanks for joining us on Seek Go Create.