[00:00:00] Hannah: Hello and welcome back to the Awfully Quiet Podcast. Thank you for tuning into this episode. I am still buzzing from the conversation I just had. It's what I've been wanting to have for a while. Today is all about human design. Specifically human design projectors. Now, I know that the topic of human design is still quite new and we could do a whole episode on what human design is, the four different energy types, but I appreciate there is already a lot of content and podcast episodes out there that do that job for me.

I wanted to have a conversation about human design projectors selfishly because I am a projector and I see a lot of parallels between being a projector in corporate and being an introvert in corporate. So no matter your type. I feel like there is something to take away from this interview for everyone.

Now, projectors in human design are people who have a special way of using their energy. Instead of being naturally action oriented like some other types, projectors are better at guiding and directing others. They often excel in areas where they can share their wisdom and expertise. However, projectors need to wait for the right invitations And recognition to fully shine.

If they try to force things or initiate action without being acknowledged for their talents, they may face challenges. Overall projectors thrive when they're invited into situations where they can offer their unique insights and guidance. Oh, that really resonates with me. And you can almost see how this can become tricky in corporate.

Especially early on in our careers where we're not just being paid for our advice. But for our work output and the amount of time and effort we visibly put in, that is exactly what I wanted to chat about. And I found the perfect guest to do this with Nadia Gabrielle is the creator of projectors invited and helps projectors thrive in their business.

And it work. She does such a good job of bringing. The projector challenges life visually on her platforms and explains things really simply for everyone to understand. I have taken so much away from this conversation and I could have gone on and on and on so without further ado. Let's dive into the interview. All right, Nadja. Well, thank you so much for joining me today and welcome to the Awfully Quiet Podcast.

[00:02:52] Nadia: Thank you for having me.

[00:02:54] Hannah: I am really excited about this conversation. As I mentioned earlier, ever since I found out I'm a projector, I've been looking for resources and ways to educate myself on how to deal. So, I found your account. You're the creator of Projectors Invited. And you teach projectors how to align their work with their personal design and strategy.

And so before we dive into the specifics of what it means to be a projector, that's what I want to spend the majority of our time today is let's just quickly dive into human design. And for anyone who has not heard about human design yet, what are the four energy types and what is important to know before we dive into projectors specifically?

[00:03:39] Nadia: Sure. So, the way that I use it and the way that I would explain it is that it's a system that gives us deeper insight into who you were truly designed to be before all the conditioning, all the stories, all the role modeling, all the input you've received throughout your life, even actually in utero. We say it starts

[00:04:00] Hannah: Hmm.

[00:04:02] Nadia: and you beginning to make all that effort to conform to what you thought you needed to be.

And the way that works with at sort of the basic level is with the aura. So we differentiate between 4 different aura types

[00:04:18] Hannah: Hmm.

[00:04:19] Nadia: where we have the manifestor with 1 of the types we have the generator manifesting generator. We sort of. Put them together, we have the projector and we have the reflector and they all differ, in terms of their aura and aura is just the way that you're, you're showing up in the world and the way again, you're designed to be.

So, with the manifesto, their aura, if you're seeing it visually, and I always say, like, you can just Google, you know, human design or a types and if you go on Google images, you'll find there's going to be a visual somewhere where you can really see it. Depicted visually, which I think is really helpful to see.

So, for the manifesto, for example, the, or is quite tight and quite small. So that already just by seeing the visual gives you a little bit of an understanding of what that type is going to be like oracle. Because they're not so

[00:05:13] Hannah: Silence.

[00:05:24] Nadia: strong word of choice, repelling aura where. it's not so easily penetrated, let's say, then we've got the generator and manifesting generator or that is much larger and more kind of enveloping. It's easier to penetrate.

It's sort of, it's kind of like a hug, kind of like a cloud. Like, you can kind of just. Get in there. You're welcome. Like there, there's capacity for that. so that gives you a little bit of insight into those types. Then with the reflector, you know, the aura, we, we call it sampling. So the reflector, which is also the, the most, The least common type, so there's the use of reflectors out there. They're kind of here to sample from the outside and have a little bit of this a little bit of this kind of like, a little amuse bush here a little amuse bush here and that's reflected in the aura. And for the projector, what you'll see is that the aura is actually shaped more like a triangle.

that goes from the, from the person outward. So that gives us insight into wherever the projector focuses their attention, their aura, it's going to culminate in that. In that arrow, almost in the tip of the triangle, so it goes from you to the other or outward and it's a really focused little arrow that that you're pointing towards someone.

So we want to be really, really. Mindful and specific with where we point that and I, and I find in my work with projectors, a lot of our grievances and a lot of our little, you know, dramas and the things that cause us grief, find their root in the way that we use our aura. day to day, I hope that was I

[00:07:18] Hannah: Yeah, no, I love that. And it leads me into my next question is why do you focus your work specifically on projectors and what stands out about the projector type for you?

[00:07:31] Nadia: mean, I have a personal interest of course, being a projector myself and I do want to say, while I have the projectors invited account and it is a big brand, it's a, you know, part of my business or half of my business and I do work with all types and I would never want it any other way. So, in my. Main business, where I work with people on strategy and capacity, I work with all types, which actually has projectors, you know, we do say we're here to guide energy types, energy types, being manifesting generators and generators and I find those relationships to be so fulfilling when they're right and when they're correct and when they're invited so that I would never want to give those up.

So, I do work with all types. However, of course. Being a projector and having this having built this platform many years ago now, of course, you know, I want to say about 80 percent of my clients and students are projectors overall. And I just find us. Fascinating, and I love us and I, I really, I see, I don't want to say the most return on investment, but I feel like with projectors, the system gives you so much because in most cases, the way you were designed to be and to move and to work and to relate is so different from what you were conditioned to do.

Whereas the way. Or I want to say an energy type, because they do make up 70 percent of the population. that 70 percent has also built a world that sort of works for them. I'm not saying energy types don't have their own grievances and their own things because they certainly do. you know, all all of us have have our own things and our own hang ups and so on, but with projectors, because they're.

We're not necessarily being taught how to be in a way that is truly aligned with our aura. I find that when a projector finds the system, and I'm lucky that often I get to be a witness to that it's. Like, the changes that happen in a very short amount of time, and they're just that feeling of being understood the hope, the renewed hope of.

Oh, wow. So maybe there is another way. So maybe I'm not going to be miserable for, like, 10 hours every business day until the end of, you know, until retirement or whatever it is. If, if it's your personal professional life, that's, that's causing you a lot of stress.that is so fulfilling to me. That is it.

There's just so much that it can give you. So, I, I really enjoy that. And as we've talked about earlier with the aura, that is 1 of the things that I think is so specific and intriguing about projectors and that. If it were up to me, I would want all of us to understand and then you can choose yourself.

If you want to apply that in daily life, or you want to play with it and see what happens, but at least to have that understanding and then you do with it as you as you please. Basically,

[00:10:37] Hannah: Yeah, I really like that. Now, when I 1st, did the human design assessment, you know, it's always when I do a personality type, you could just kind of look at the different types and you almost like, make up your mind of, oh, I want to be this 1

[00:10:50] Nadia: I want to be the best 1,

[00:10:51] Hannah: and so which 1 is the best of them? So I had, I looked at the projector and I was like, oh, that's the best 1, because

[00:10:59] Nadia: did you

[00:11:01] Hannah: well, I always go for the, for the underdog types, like the types that are not prevalent in a society.

Like, the 1st thing I noticed was that projectors were, not the, Not the smallest type, but one of the types where it's the only 20 percent of the population are projectors and it's also quite a new type. And then I really resonated with the aspects of the projector is the seer. The projector is the visionary.

They can see into other people and they see patterns that, not everybody sees. And so it always felt like that resonated very much with me in terms of like, yeah, where, where I feel like I'm at from a, work perspective. Most of the time, I really love to look into the future. I like to look at. you know, at something that's chaotic and bring, structure to it, optimize it, improve it, make it better.

And, that really resonated with me. So I really liked, the projector type going in, but then the more and more I found out about what it means to be a projector, I also saw some of the downsides of it.walk us through. So what it means to be a projector, especially when it comes to your work life and what are some of the things that are really great and what are some of the things that can trip us up?

[00:12:25] Nadia: I think once more, it goes back to aura. So, actually, any relationship, but professional relationships very prevalently.

Just imagine the aura visually, right? It's that arrow shape that goes from you outward. So that's where your attention flows, where your energy flows, where your focus flows, which is also basically your energetic currency as a projector. Ideally, that's what you would be recognized for and invited for. So the ideal scenario, like the dream TM is that someone sees what you've got to offer, what you bring to the table and they come over and they're like, Hey, could you come over and do that for us? So, oh, I'd love to and it's real yet. Right? And then you go and you do the thing and then everyone's like, oh, amazing. Like, that really helped us out. Let us now build on that because then your job is done. You're not actually there to really concern yourself with the, like, you know, the, the little detail.

You're like, as you said, right? The thing that you want to do is you want to bring order. You want to bring structure. You see a system that is. In upheaval, or a bit of a mess, and you can see which puzzle pieces need to be realigned and you can go in and do that thing. Whatever it is. Right? That can be any, any area of of, Whatever job or professional field it is, and then. That has a big impact. So 1 of the things that's really important for projectors and it's actually, it's quite specific. I guess it's just, because it's something I work on with a lot of my clients that it's top of top of my mind. It's actually not so much in the hours you put in.

So, for often for a projector, it's like, you, you might put in 1 hour, like, you'll come in and you'll do that. Rearranging that restructuring, but it's the value that this hour provides. So, there's often a mismatch between, you know, how sort of we're conditioned or just how we're societally and culturally valuing work where it's still very much.

You know, how many hours have you put in? Are you present all day? Every day? Do you have, like, a, whatever 9 hour workday? What is it? Whereas for projectors, it's much more the value that comes from. Maybe a very short time span seeing that value. Does that make sense?

[00:14:55] Hannah: Absolutely. And I think I read that somewhere, along the lines of, A projector can do, you know, the work that other people would do in an 8 hour day in a much shorter span of time. And it's often, you know, being seen as a negative, because you somehow want to, you know, especially in a 9 to 5, you want to somehow fill that time,

[00:15:15] Nadia: And you will, and then, you know, what happens because that's when when my clients find me, they will do 3 9 to 9 hour work days because they, they will just do it times 3. So, they think that they just have to fill and then they get exhausted and burnt out and they're like. I cannot, I mean, that's where I was certainly my story and it's really so that's another thing that I would wish we're all projectors, especially in a corporate environment to have that understanding and I know it's hard because right now there's a discrepancy, right?

We're in that kind of threshold space where the, the old is kind of on its way out, but it's still making a lot of noise and the new isn't quite ushered in yet. So, you know, maybe there are some more progressive work environments, but very many environments are still quite traditional in that way. So, you know, you with your aura are designed to do things differently, but is your, is your environment supportive of that?

And very often that's not the case. So I understand the difficulty.

[00:16:20] Hannah: Yeah, how do you work with your clients in a situation like that when they feel like they can do the work much faster, but then they're still part of an organization or part of a corporation that, just kind of, you know, values, you know, the doing the work. Doing a lot of the output. is it just an understanding and embracing that we can do things much faster and that, we may not need as much time or is it also to a certain extent educating our environment and just kind of showing that, you know, we've delivered, but in a much shorter span of time.

[00:17:00] Nadia: I think it really depends on the environment. So for me, right, the loyalty is always to my client. I don't know these people they work with, but, you know, in most cases, right. And also, I will say I do work mostly with business owners themselves. So it, but I do also work with people who work in corporate environments.

And we certainly look at these things. You know, if you, if you saw my desktop, it's like I have my client's charts and then I have like their bosses chart, their coworkers chart. Like, we look at all of them. We're like, oh no, of course you always feel this way with this person because they have a defined, you know, heart and you don't, so we wanna understand the environment they're in, and just make it so it's.

Depending on what, what the status quo is, and what the goal is, if someone is coming to me and they are just exhausted, our goal, our primary goal is to just get them to a place where they can deal as you say, right? Where they can survive like survival is our is our primary goal. We're not we're not so worried about educating anyone else right now.

Because, like, let's get you to a point where you're not dying at 5 PM every day, but let's do that. so we might need to just really. Implement I remember this 1 client she had. She had this job and she bless her. She was. Just what a powerhouse what a powerhouse projector, but completely living as a generator, like, completely conditioned and I get it.

Both my parents are energy types. I'm an only child. I, I certainly have never been modeled the projector way and how would I have right? and so for this client as well, she's just, she was basically a better generator than any generator would be like, She would show up, she would do the thing. She, she was like, she had drives, she kept going, and she was exhausted.

She was really exhausted. So she kept changing jobs. But it would never change because, of course, it's her own inner capacity. So that's something I work on with clients. I call it capacity in terms of where is your capacity for. Valuing there's different capacities, but in this case, the capacity to value what you do not just value 1st of all, identify what it is that you do and then see the value in that.

And just let that stand on its own instead of keep Delivering, which she felt she had to do. And of course, no company, you know, is ever going to tell you. Oh, actually, Susan, you're fine. Do less like, you're you're like, yeah, let's keep going. Right? Even though you're like. Producing top notch output and I was this person, I was this person.

[00:19:47] Hannah: that feels very familiar. Yeah.

[00:19:49] Nadia: Right you would tell me, like, oh, this is like, this is not quite an a plus. I mean, we don't use a that system, but basically this is like an a minus. I'd be like, yeah, say no more. Let me do it again.

[00:20:02] Hannah: Silence. Bye

[00:20:06] Nadia: and it will be perfect. Like, right?

There's different configurations. It's not specifically just projectors. I would look at again and under a heart. Definition or lack thereof. so we would look at that. And with this client, I remember we really, we had to get really playful. And we had, we basically just this persona for her. It's like, I don't know if you know this.

I feel like anyone who works in a corporate environment has a co worker like this. I certainly had co workers like this. It's like the dude who's just, just flowing, just breezing through the day. Right. Just whenever you see him, he has a cup of coffee in hand. He's always like, you're in your office, you know, typing away and he's just standing just like, relaxed and casual in the doorframe, just chatting and you're like, dude, like, okay, are we done?

Because I need to keep working. He has all the time in the world and never stressed, you know, the guy

[00:21:04] Hannah: I do. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:21:22] Nadia: we need to channel this guy for you. Like, this is our 1st step. We can work on other things later, but you're going to have to channel this guy because otherwise you will work yourself into the ground. And it's just basically the idea is like.

You're doing 500 percent right now. Let's, let's tone it down. 70 percent is what we're aiming for. in her cases, you know, 200 would be an improvement because she was doing so much.but we really, like, we literally came up with this persona that she had to put, like, the minute she walked into the office, she had to, like, put it on, like, a costume. and I remember, because she had just changed jobs, so she just started working at this new company. So we're like. This is an opportune moment, because what happens when you change within a, a matrix or,gefüge, you know what I mean?

[00:22:20] Hannah: Yeah, yeah,

[00:22:21] Nadia: That that already knows you is there's going to be a lot of resistance because people are like, why are you no longer doing the thing you were doing?

Why are you no longer over delivering? excuse me. What are you doing? Where if you're coming into a new, you're just like. That's that's just what you can expect for me and it's still enough. It's still more than enough. Like, that wasn't, you know, I wouldn't necessarily tell this tell anyone to do this.

But for this client, in particular, I knew that if she were to tone it down, it was still going to be surpassing any expectations,

[00:22:57] Hannah: Yeah, yeah, I, what I'm taking away is that it is a lot about the inner work and our own expectations of of what this is going to look like and what our work output is, and there is a recurring theme here with a lot of what I try to work through with this audience specifically, and that is, you know, The projector types seem like they are not the most prevalent type in society in a corporation in the workplace.

And therefore, those structures are more prone towards the types that, are just kind of, you know, standing out more as, as you say, the generators, they are the ones who work, constantly, who have a lot of Energy and who have a constant energy to work on, their projects. So it's almost like the energy always replenishes where he is for projectors.

we, there is an amount of energy that we have, and once we are out of it, we need to replenish and it, it just looks differently and it feels like. That's, very similar to, being an introvert in the workplace, which is, what I work through with my audience along the lines of the corporations and, in most companies are made for extroverts because there are a lot of extroverts in corporate.

And so it feels like career advice is made for them. anything along the lines of how to become more visible, how to stand out in the workplace is all. Kind of made for extroverts and for types that are, yeah, very easily connect with others who would be standing in doorways holding a cup of coffee and just kind of doing casual conversations and being promoted along the way.

[00:24:36] Nadia: They're fine

[00:24:38] Hannah: They're good.

[00:24:38] Nadia: designed. They're good.

[00:24:40] Hannah: Yeah. But so what we're missing is, advice on how to deal or how to, you know, how to become visible in a way that is more introvert friendly, that doesn't, involve us, you know, being making ourselves awkward or pretending to be something that we're not. And it feels like the business around projectors is very, very similar in that we just need to understand the way we operate.

And, how to, you know, deal with that, how to do the inner work

[00:25:09] Nadia: And be a little

[00:25:10] Hannah: a way that is more conducive to our energy.

[00:25:15] Nadia: Exactly that and then I think the understanding step 1 and then secondly, build the capacity to be a little bit audacious with that to get to a point where. And I know it's really hard. I, I certainly, I haven't been able to do it. In fact, in a corporate, that's why I'm self employed. It's why I built my own company because I never, I never found that.

And I was always quite miserable being employed, but. To get to a point where it's just how it is, like, there's an, there's you're unapologetic about who you are. And I remember very distinctly. I was at uni. I think it was, it was 1 of my management seminars with my professor and he was saying. If you're not extroverted, you might as well give up on the notion of leadership and I just sat there and I remember looking around and going, like, you know, like.

Surely everyone is like, everyone is feeling this way right now. Like everyone is like sitting there with their mouths open, but everyone's just like, Oh, okay. Yeah. Like, yeah, sure. And it just really made me think, like, I have this background in classic business that is also merged with more progressive fields in the realm of tech and design.

So I'm lucky that I, I, I did get to broaden my views with some more creative approaches to business, but I will say a lot of it was and continues to be taught in an incredibly old school and incredibly conditioning manner. And that's where. I, I just think there's, there's really a lot of space and actually, you know, to be filled with, with, with a different approach.

It's part of the reason why I created my schools and my service design school and product design school, which give you a solid business. But yeah, I would think I'm actually curious. Do you find with your work around being an introvert I would think that that is more readily accepted or more like. You know, in Germany would say. If you're a. Like, it's received by open ears. You know what I mean? rather than coming with something as woo woo sounding as human design.

So what's your experience been with that?

[00:27:45] Hannah: Yeah, I feel like, it is definitely more accepted these days.it feels like there is a lot more content out there on, introversion versus extroversion, not so much, though, in the, in the corporate world. Like it always depends on how open corporations are with. Personality type leadership, I feel like the organization that I am with, there's a lot of work on MBTI profiles, which naturally touches on introversion versus extraversion, but still, a lot of the career advice that I perceive and have been given throughout my career.

Was, was really not something that I could, use as an introvert. I've tried and I've made myself really miserable in trying to play the extrovert and doing all the things as I've been told, but then I've sort of had to find my own way of dealing with it in a more subtle way, which is essentially how my business was created.

and why I now help introverts succeed in the workplace and do things slightly differently. But I think the next version of that is almost going deeper into energy types and human design. Because if we're honest, there are probably at least, there are many different ways to go about. Building a career and, be, you know, becoming successful, but, yeah, we only see that when we're only being taught that one way.

So I feel like, yes, definitely. There is a lot of people in corporate who are willing to have a conversation about personality and introversion. I feel like we're a long way off from more, spiritual grounds or, human design type thinking. Definitely.

[00:29:24] Nadia: And then also, I would think, or in my experience, at least, but again, it's it's a while back. It's like, okay, let's, let's do this fun personality test. And then you have the information, but the information is still just information, right? It's just insight. And then what do we do with that? Like, do we actually, are we actually willing to change things around and to change, Are structures of merit and value, based on that, or is then the advice for the more introverted type still going to basically be, be more extroverted, like, just be different.

[00:29:56] Hannah: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:29:58] Nadia: I still get it. I. When I was still, like, in a more corporate environment, I was employed. I was I used to get up at 4 am. I've told the story before so that I could be in the office by 7 every morning so that I could have 2 uninterrupted hours before everyone else would come in

[00:30:17] Hannah: I feel you.

[00:30:18] Nadia: telling yesterday and.

I was really at my most miserable. It pains me to think back to that time because I mean, it's I can tell it in a kind of comedy way now where it's like, I was literally depending, you know, these, like, energy clearing mists, like, like, or a sprays and stuff I would go to the office at 7, spray them around the entire office and open all the windows so that no 1 would smell a thing. And then I would have crystals everywhere, like not openly, but like, I would have like, crystals in my back in my pockets, and I had this big pendant. That was kind of a little bit ugly, but, you know, the guy at the store was like, yeah, this is going to protect you. And I had, you know what I had, I had cacti, like cactus. Plants on desk to literally fight off people because energetically cacti are said to have that kind of keep out and energy, right? Because they're these thing. So I had them on my desk, but then people would come over and be like, they're so cute. I'm like, no,

[00:31:21] Hannah: know. They're meant to keep you away.

[00:31:24] Nadia: please. Please step back, ma'am. And it's so hard when you're so sensitive to the environment, like.

I'm a feeling cognition. Do you happen to know your cognition, human design?

[00:31:35] Hannah: I don't.

[00:31:37] Nadia: Your super sense, it's 1 of the senses that's going to be vision, smell, feeling, something like that. That

[00:31:43] Hannah: would be interesting.

like generally I'm very, very sensitive to my environment. Like, I will tell people, Oh, the music is too loud. Oh, that smell is too strong. And I can literally feel in my body when there is a bad vibe in a room. or when I'm surrounded by, you know, by conflict, it's just, it's just kind of feel it in my own, but I can't really describe what it is, but it's just heightened for me. Taste I'm just, I'm just taste. I just,

[00:32:12] Nadia: so you

[00:32:12] Hannah: reading through my chart. Yeah.

[00:32:14] Nadia: you actually have the taste. You're like, oh, this doesn't taste good. Like, I don't want this. Like, they're very discerning taste technicians. I have a feeling. So, we're very sensitive and actually also get extremely affected by tech and having too many devices around you. So, it was just all around miserable, and I remember at the height of this misery is again, kind of like a tragic comedy thing.

My mom got me a present for my birthday or something, and it was a book literally called Hiding in the Bathroom. Do you know it?

[00:32:44] Hannah: I don't, but that sounds like.

[00:32:48] Nadia: about being an introvert in the workplace. so I think you might find this helpful, you could, you should have the author on the pod.

That would actually be really cool.

[00:32:57] Hannah: that is an excellent idea.

[00:32:59] Nadia: I remember really, it's, it's giving me some actionable input and more. So, at the time, just some plain old solace during a time where I thought that I would never find my place. And as I said before, that I would just always be miserable for, like. All business hours of every day.

[00:33:19] Hannah: Yeah, and you mentioned that at some point, you've done the corporate experience, but at some point, you felt like, you rather wanted to run your own business, which I feel like a lot of projectors end up doing now. For those projectors who are still in corporate, what, what is your advice? What would you, advise them to do in order to feel more aligned?

How can we protect ourselves or embrace our projector beings and thrive in corporate?

[00:33:49] Nadia: I think it, I don't know if you can even say this in English, but it stands and falls with with the people around you. So, for projectors, it's just really, really important that we're surrounded by the right people. People and not surrounded by, but, enter into relationships with the right people, because there's this, I don't know if you've, if you've heard or who, who's the creator, I want to say of the system. If you've ever heard him talk on a recording, he says this really eloquently much more eloquently than I ever could. But I remember him saying as a projector when you're. Entering into alliances, collaborations with others in a way that is not correct in a way.

That is not correctly. Correct? it's like, you're, you're pouring the wrong oil into your car. Like, it's really that's the key quality. and. But it's inside your aura, and then it's really hard to clean that back out. So it's extremely important whether you're in corporate, whether you're self employed, even in romantic relationships, friendships, what have you to to be with the right people, because the right people are going to either bring it out of you.

Or everything is going to be. Very much more difficult than it needs to be

[00:35:11] Hannah: Yeah.

[00:54:51] Hannah: I love that. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:54:59] Nadia: this? Like, yeah, I might have some input on this and this, but is this what they hired me for? and I will still ask, like, basically, from this preparation I did yesterday, I have, like, 1 entire page of handwritten notes on 1 aspect of their website and I prepped it, but in the session itself, I will ask this person.

Hey, I've got some notes on this and this. Would you be interested in going over those if not totally fine as well. So it's. It's up to them and some things I just never share, like, we all as projectors, we see a lot more and understand a lot more than we let on. I think it's just, I really, I ask myself, am I hired to, to share this?

Has this person hired me to give me this to give my feedback? Because if not, it will not be received. That's the other thing. Like, it's not going to go anywhere. And it's, it's, it's hard because you do sometimes think. And it's sometimes accurate that you could save them 5 years of misery, or, you know, egging around to translate from German where it's like, we can really get a move on here and, like, get you to a better place.

But if I'm not hired, essentially, and it doesn't have to be, you know, it's more like a, like a metaphor. Like, are you, are you invited? It's not worth it almost because you're leaking your energy where it's not invited and, you know, what always helps me a little trick. You, and all of us will have had this, you will have been on the other side of this. Of this exchange where a projector or someone that you strongly suspect to be a project. Dumping their stuff on you, or they're just there, or is just coming in really hot and strong and you never invited it. And it feels so jarring, I, there is almost nothing as jarring as having that projector or a full focus on you and you're just like, oh, no, but like, I

[00:57:07] Hannah: wasn't ready to hear that. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:57:11] Nadia: this a few times where it happened to me with other projectors and. It is. So jarring and I always tell myself, I never want to be perceived this way. Like, I would hate and I'm sure I surely have been like, I'm not mindful all the time. You know, I'm human. Like, these things happen, but. It helps me, like, it's a little a little paradigm shift where I go.

Okay. Do you want to be that person right now? Because I know you don't. So, then it helps me, it helps me keep it in because I'm like, no, I don't want people to ever feel this way.

[00:57:47] Hannah: what I, what I'll take away is you're leaking your energy when you're not invited. Yeah.Nadia, I'll have 1 more question before we wrap for today. All around the aspects of projectors are the guides, the advisors, the mentors, and I feel like you've certainly made a business out of that. and it's where I feel most aligned for somebody who is early in their career and, feels like, you know.

It always feels like you need a lot of on paper experience to be considered an advisor and a mentor to be considered somebody who has all the answers. And to me, I always felt like that came naturally to me. I felt like I always had advice before I ever had. The on paper experience, talk to me about how you would go about, stepping into that role of being a guide and an advisor, even early in your career when you don't have as many years of experience yet.

[00:58:43] Nadia: well, I think that is a part that actually often gets forgotten or glossed over a little bit in the projector. Space, which is that there is a part, a path towards mastery. So there's always a lot of talk about guiding others. And, I think in order for that to be correct and to be invited and to be recognized, there needs to be some kind of mastery.

So we do put in our time learning. Gaining experience so that eventually we can master a system. I do think that the seeds are there early on. but I, I personally, personal opinion. I do think there is something to be said for cultivating that skill and set and you will, because, you know, the. What is your profile?

Is it a six? so, yeah, I remember the six. So for you, right? The role model, like, the goal eventually is going to be, you will go, you're going to be sought out for that. Like, you're going to be in that role model position where people look at you, how has she done it and you're going to be able to inspire through that.

So that's a lifelong journey. Right? and sometimes. And that's just life, right? And also our, our, our culture where we want everything right now, but I think there's merit in doing things step by step and really building a skill set or a skill that in order for then for you to then really be sought out as the expert.

Of that field, where then you really will get that real recognition and that genuine invitation. So, yeah, in my experience, there's still, there's mastery still required. So it's not so much that, you know, I was just born with this. Maybe I really was born with, with skills and with, like Anlage, right.

It's already there, but it's.

[01:00:38] Hannah: like the traits are

[01:00:40] Nadia: it needs to be cultivated and. Experience, I mean, I, I literally, I made up my own job. Like, I didn't exist. I had to create it. I mean, created it out of thin air. but then wow, like. You know, with years of experience with years of actually working with, say, projectors, the experience that I've gained now is so much more than I ever could have understood when I 1st started out, because now I have 100s of case studies of students and clients are like, oh, this is how I've seen this.

Play out in real life or like, oh, you know, there's always like, oh, I have another client who has this or like, oh, you have a similar chart to this. Interesting. Oh, the open head. It works out this way and that happened with experience. And I think the more that you build on that and really invest in that, the more you will be sought out.

And the more the genuine invitations will come your way, and as I said before, people will move mountains to work with you

[01:01:40] Hannah: That is a really important aspect for me, in terms of like, it's a lifelong journey. Yes, you are born with, this specific design type and with this energy and with this aura, but it takes you a while to really get there and then to reap the benefits of it. I think this is really, important for everyone to take away.

Certainty for me. Yeah.

[01:02:01] Nadia: and for me as well. But, yeah, I think that the concept of mastery, mastering a system, it just takes time. And I know that's something that's in our short lived culture, like, we have this kind of notion that everything has to be quick and right now, and we have very short attention spans. And, and there's a lot of, you know, there's.

Like, it's an industry, like making money off of the promise of everything being easy and quick and no effort or low effort. And I. I personally, I could never stand for that. It's not how I want to communicate. I always think anything that I put out there. I want to be able to still stand behind that in 10 years from now, 20 years from, you know what I mean?

[01:02:51] Hannah: Yeah,

[01:02:52] Nadia: I'd rather say it as I see it and I might change my mind at some point, but today that's how I see things. And yeah, it's maybe not what everyone wants to hear because of course, mastery takes time, takes effort. It's not so easy, but I think it pays off.

[01:03:08] Hannah: Yeah, and it's definitely consistent with everyone. I heard speak about this and everyone who in our minds is successful. They've they've worked their way there. And it's never just the overnight. It's never just the, the shiny thing that we see on social media. It's, it does take effort and it is a journey.

Yeah.

[01:03:29] Nadia: there's good that you have that you innately have and then there's the cultivation and then there's the hard work and I've worked with some extremely successful projectors in their field. They're all hard workers. They're not maybe, you know, at this point. Hard workers and like a generator would be a hard worker, but still they have put in the time again.

It goes back. It's actually a nice bookend for this conversation goes back to what you do in that hour. The value of what you do, you've cultivated over a decade or any decades with through mastery of the system so that you then can go in in an hour and fix the thing.

[01:04:09] Hannah: Yeah, I

[01:04:11] Nadia: has there's. Behind that scene, behind the scenes, there's There is a lot of work and a lot of effort that has gone into that.

[01:04:25] Hannah: could go on and on talking to you about this. I've got, you know, so many questions and you have so many case studies of people that you've worked with. Maybe we'll do this another time, but thank you so much for sharing your wisdom for talking to us about projectors in corporate and in the workplace.

Now, let my audience know where everyone. Can find you and work with you, what to work with you on specifically and yeah.

[01:04:55] Nadia: Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed this conversation. It's a departure from, like, the usual things I talk about. It's really fun. And I thought your questions were so, like, nuanced and, been really thoughtful and. Yeah, it's just really fun to kind of go down these different alleys.yeah, you can find me at Nadia Gabrielle dot com.

That's my general business where I work with all types and I work on strategy. So that's business service design, product design, design thinking and capacity, which is more the internal. Aspects that we've talked about today, so building capacity to show up, building capacity to speak up, building capacity to set boundaries, all these things that we talked about.

And then I'm at projectors invited dot com, which is for my projectors only projectors and those who love us who I think, which is everyone right.

[01:05:47] Hannah: absolutely.

[01:05:49] Nadia: And, and there's a meme account on Instagram at projectors invited where there's. Laughs for days, if you have a sense of humor, and then there's a projectors newsletter, you'll find that on projectors invited dot com as well.

I do recommend that. I kind of structured it like a little curriculum. So when you sign up it, you know, you. There's an automation, you'll receive an email every once in a while. Not too much. It's not overwhelming, but there's going to be a little, a little bit of education popping into your inbox every now and then just little bite size about what it means to be a projector projector at work and so on.

And I have a personal newsletter as well, which is basically just me talking about books. I've read and TV shows. I've watched and that's pretty much it.

[01:06:38] Hannah: I love that well, and again, thank you so much for joining me today. And, yeah, I'd love to do this again sometime.

[01:06:46] Nadia: Thank you. Absolutely. Tell me when and I'll be there.