[00:00:00] Eric Goranson: It's around the house. Today's episode is brought to you by Root Quencher and root quencher.com. If you wanna save those trees and save water at the same time, visit root quencher.com and put the water right at the roots. Today's episode is an encore presentation from last October about exterior tile that you don't wanna miss.

[00:00:27] Eric Goranson: We wanted to replay this one cuz we've had so many people out. Asking about it, and this is a great conversation with William White on how to tile

[00:00:35] William White: outside rx. The company that I worked for, RX Tile and Stone actually developed some exterior drainage systems. Now, this is really unique because we are actually able to do tile on exterior decks and, and that's where most people have shied away from because decks move, wood structures move when it comes to remodeling and.[00:01:00]

[00:01:00] William White: Renovating your home. There is a lot to know, but we've got you covered. This is our round the house.

[00:01:08] Eric Goranson: Welcome to the Round the House Show. This is where we talk everything about your home every single week. Thanks for joining us today. We've got a special guest in the studio, William White from Rx Man.

[00:01:19] Eric Goranson: Welcome back to Around the House.

[00:01:21] William White: Thank

[00:01:22] Eric Goranson: you, Eric. Good times, brother. Having you back on. And this is been a minute, this could be a good time. I wanted to talk about something that we haven't actually ever tackled on around the house and being that I've been on the show for coming up on, geez, what, eight, nine years now.

[00:01:36] Eric Goranson: That's not a lot of topics, so this is a fresh one. All right. What I think is cool about this is that we have not ever talked about exterior tile, cuz we dive into the inside stuff. But we're seeing more and more exterior tile out there, and it is something that, much like a bathroom, you really have to plan this out for it to work

[00:01:58] William White: correctly.

[00:01:58] William White: I agree [00:02:00] 100%. And I would add to that, that you know, With Covid, some of the things, the outcome of Covid was people weren't going on vacations. Suddenly, they did have, you know, money that they'd maybe slotted away for vacation, but you couldn't go. They were stuck in their houses and all of a sudden you saw this surge in the D I Y.

[00:02:21] William White: I'm stuck at home. I'm finally gonna start tackling some of those projects that I've put off forever. And one of those outcomes was investing into that outdoor space, that outdoor entertaining. Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah. There's the barbecue. Yeah. You might mount a TV outside. Yeah. You might, you know, do this, do that.

[00:02:38] William White: Add some lights. And then tile really finishes off that space. Yeah. Unfortunately, tile exterior is one of the most difficult installations because there's a lot of factors that you have to think about. It's funny,

[00:02:55] Eric Goranson: I just saw today on a social media site, I'm in a bunch of [00:03:00] different home improvement groups.

[00:03:01] Eric Goranson: Yep. And there was a contractor in there trying to advertise his wares in the Colorado market down there. Okay. And this guy's like, Hey, I do perfect tile work. This is great. I look at the picture. He's got Home Depot concrete board up on the wall. He has that blue foundation waterproofing on the joints

[00:03:23] William White: only.

[00:03:24] William White: Okay. Only on the joints. Okay. On

[00:03:26] Eric Goranson: the scenes of the backer board. Yep. Seam of the backer board. That's it. And I can only see the mast stick cuz it's half installed. You can tell he's in the middle of it. I can't see the MasTec above the one tile, so you know that it's, is he dabbing the back? What's he And I'm like, okay, this is some professional and I'm gonna use big air quotes for professional.

[00:03:49] Eric Goranson: Exactly. That is out there selling his wear, going. I do perfect tile and I'm looking at this thing going. Man, you got a tiled bench. You have all these places, they're gonna be water intrusion problems and [00:04:00] you buddy aren't even getting the shower

[00:04:02] William White: right? Yeah, yeah. Showers can be tricky and some of those same.

[00:04:09] William White: General practices of doing tile in a shower, which a lot of, you know, a lot of contractors, whether you're a general contractor or remodeler, as well as homeowners, have tackled, you know, a shower. Yeah. And as long as you follow the process and, and do everything involved, especially waterproofing. It can, you know, most of the time there can be a fair amount of success there.

[00:04:33] William White: Yeah. As we transition to outside, you know, there's, there's kind of two different applications, right? You've got horizontal and vertical. Mm-hmm. So depending on if you're maybe tile in. Maybe around the barbecue or something like that. Sure. That's one place that, you know, it's a little easier, but as soon as you start going horizontal and now you're having to deal with rain, sun expansion, [00:05:00] contraction, waterproofing, I mean, all these things come into play.

[00:05:05] William White: That's where it starts to get a little tricky.

[00:05:08] Eric Goranson: And even more so if you're on a floor that has any kind of flex on it as well. Movement. Yeah, movement de any kind of movement deflection. And you know, people don't many times design that outside deck to not move. Like the surface in inside your home is, for instance, so.

[00:05:26] William White: Exactly. And there are approved ways to install tile on wood interior. Yep. The only approved way per the T C N A Handbook Tile Council of North America, the only approved way per that handbook to install tile exterior is a floating mud bed. So you're talking two and a half inches of mud waterproofing on top of that, waterproofing below it, tile on top of that, I mean, you're, you're talking about a massive amount of material, some incredible skills to be able to pull that off and make it flatten and have [00:06:00] proper pitch.

[00:06:01] William White: And just the amount of weight that that adds to a structure. So that's technically the only approved method. Now, interesting, RX does have some options that, that get away from that mud bed and mm-hmm. And can do some things. Um, but that's where you're getting a little more advanced. Um, I think the place where most people start is maybe like a front porch or an inch away or something like that.

[00:06:25] William White: That's, that's where a lot of people will start. Dabbling and taking their, taking a stab at doing some tile. Yeah. And you know, you're typically direct to concrete. Mm-hmm. You know, most front, front porches are concrete. Yep. Generally speaking. Yeah.

[00:06:40] Eric Goranson: If you're a tile, yes. I mean, otherwise it's just a wood, you know, it's just a wood porch or something like that.

[00:06:46] Eric Goranson: But yeah, I

[00:06:46] William White: agree. You know, and a lot of times that entryway is fully covered or semi covered, so you're not talking about. Necessarily a lot of direct exposure. Mm-hmm. And in that situation, as long as you get [00:07:00] really good coverage, and when I talk about coverage, what I'm saying is, is the amount of mortar, when you've combed it out on the substrate and set a tile down, you have to pick that tile back up and look at the bottom side of it.

[00:07:12] William White: And you want to see 95% coverage. Let me tell you that's a minimum is 95% coverage for exterior tile. That means really, really good. So yeah. Where I see a lot of people make mistakes in that instance is that they're using a $10 bag of mud that they go down to the box store and buy, and you're

[00:07:33] Eric Goranson: leaning on that way too heavy,

[00:07:35] William White: and you're relying on a $10 bag of mud to do something really special and it just doesn't have the ability.

[00:07:43] William White: And that's where stepping up and buying a really premium product is going to help out a lot. And also understanding. Asking some questions, I'm going to be using this application exterior. What's, what's the best product? [00:08:00] And you know, depending on where you live, that may play a factor too. Yeah. Are we talking about sunny Southern California or are we talking about, as you mentioned, Colorado, where?

[00:08:10] William White: You're a hundred in the summer, but you're

[00:08:12] Eric Goranson: negative whatever in the winter. You know, you've got these massive, she's seen 50 degree swings in Colorado in an afternoon. So, yeah. I mean, and that's crazy. But that's, that's what happens. And what's ironic is, is people go, traditionally, they pick out the tile cuz they go, oh, that's pretty, how do I install it?

[00:08:33] Eric Goranson: But they even forget about, okay, what happens when this tile gets wet? Maybe it's damp. Maybe you're in a beach area and it gets sand on it. I mean, what you gotta think about what's gonna be on the surface of that? So you pick the right tile before we even get into setting it.

[00:08:53] William White: True and understanding slip coefficient.

[00:08:55] William White: So some tiles are rated to be in, in wet [00:09:00] environments, you know, because they're, they're gonna help to eliminate that slipping and falling hazard, which, you know, heaven forbid. You know, you've got the grandparents coming over to to visit and one of 'em takes a dive on the front porch before they even hit the house like that.

[00:09:16] William White: That kind of ruins the day for everybody.

[00:09:18] Eric Goranson: Maybe that's how you get rid of the door-to-door salesman out there. As you put the palace carra, marble, and a little bit of a sprinkler out there. You turn on as you see 'em heading up the driveway, and then I'll talk to you if you can make it to the door.

[00:09:32] William White: That's true. It's true, but you know. Think about those things like, like, and is a tile exterior rated? Is it freeze thaw rated? You know, and you, you mentioned Carrera.

[00:09:45] Eric Goranson: If you're not taking notes, don't worry. You can always catch the podcast on any podcast player around the house will be right back after these important messages.

[00:09:53] Eric Goranson: Don't go.

[00:09:57] William White: What's up? This is Dick Hand Satchel from s. [00:10:00] Steel Panther and you are listening too, around the house with Eric G. Yeah. We love Eric G and you should too.

[00:10:16] Eric Goranson: Welcome back to The Round the House Show. If you wanna get ahold of me, it's really easy. Head over to around the house online.com and you can catch me over there just to contact us, Paige. And that lands in my inbox and I'm there to help. Now let's get back to our conversation with William White. We're talking everything about doing tile outdoors for your outdoor kitchen patio or front

[00:10:37] William White: steps.

[00:10:39] William White: You, you mentioned Carrera. You know me personally, I would. I would really. Question somebody putting natural stone outside. Amen. Um, especially with the porcelain tile that we have nowadays, that, I mean, when I can be fooled by some of the products that are manufactured in porcelain and I have to walk up and touch them to see, [00:11:00] is that really a stone or is not?

[00:11:03] William White: I mean, they've gotten so good that honestly, why would you want to put something outside? I see people put slate. Outside all the time, and I'm like, no. That is like the worst material to put outside in my personal opinion. Sleepy,

[00:11:19] Eric Goranson: nasty. It's just so hard to take care of. Get a little

[00:11:23] William White: water underneath of it and those layers start shaving off.

[00:11:27] William White: Yep. I mean, it's also so porous that water absorbs right straight through. It gets underneath of it soaks the mortar, and then what happens when water expands or when it freezes, it expands and. You start popping tiles. I mean, it's just,

[00:11:44] Eric Goranson: yeah. Why would you wanna lean that hard on your waterproofing anyway and sit out there and on your ceiling, go, okay, I sealed this a year ago.

[00:11:52] Eric Goranson: By the time you realize that you should have sealed it, you're again just you're, yeah, you're putting another one in there and let's go to Lifetime more sealed. No, [00:12:00] it doesn't, you just wore the top of that soft thing off. You know, it's, there's only so far that's gonna go.

[00:12:05] William White: Exactly. Exactly. That's, that's one of the big mistakes I see people make is selecting the wrong material.

[00:12:12] William White: You know, that that plays a huge part in it, you know, and sometimes that's where stepping up to a dedicated tile distributor is gonna be able to provide you with a little better. Guidance than say, you know, like, like the box store. Yeah. You know, cause they may not be experienced enough to be able to answer those questions specific to an exterior application.

[00:12:36] William White: That's where going to, you know, a, a design center or something like that where, where they specialize in flooring. Typically those people can steer you the right direction. They can say, okay, well stay away from here. These aren't the right ones. You want to, you wanna be looking at these. That can be helpful.

[00:12:52] Eric Goranson: Well, and on top of it, the box store doesn't have too many products in that building that are even rated for what you want to [00:13:00] do.

[00:13:01] William White: Uh, you know, it it, it's hard to say with all the difference, you know, across the nation. Who knows? Maybe there is one that has it, but from what I see around it could be, but I'm just saying

[00:13:10] Eric Goranson: it's, it's a fine, it's a big ask

[00:13:13] William White: from what I find around here.

[00:13:14] William White: You're correct. No. They, they don't have the education and they also don't have the products. Yeah,

[00:13:20] Eric Goranson: absolutely. Yeah. So we'll go back to that front porch as an example. If you're sitting there in that front porch, you got the tile picked out, okay? This isn't gonna, you know, grandma's not gonna break an arm or get a head injury with this.

[00:13:31] Eric Goranson: Okay? So this is safe and I've got this, you know, kind of. Maybe it's an old 50 year old concrete or a hundred year old concrete front step that you want to put tile over. I know so many people get out there with the broom, they brush it off, they mix up the mortar, and off they go. There's a little more to that sometimes on the prep work than what you might think.

[00:13:54] William White: I'm gonna say it starts a day. Before that, I wanna go out there with a pressure washer. The [00:14:00] day before I'm gonna start my installation, I'm gonna pressure wash 50 years, a hundred years of grime and Yep, moss and whatever else out, you know, blast that off the surface Also, that's gonna blow off any latency, any, any flaking, concrete, anything like that.

[00:14:19] William White: It'll ness. Yeah. Chalkiness, it'll, it'll. Show me if there's any places I need to make some repairs, possibly beforehand. Cause there are products that can go in and patch that. Sure. And then you gotta let it dry. So maybe, maybe it's a couple days before, who knows? Maybe it's the weekend before and you, you know, do all your pressure wash and get things nice and clean.

[00:14:40] William White: That way you know, when you start the project next, the next, uh, Saturday, all you do have to do is sweep.

[00:14:48] Eric Goranson: There you go. Now I know I've dealt with repairing foundations and when I would put, you know, uh, like a high strength mortar mix in there to patch that, we'd always [00:15:00] wet that down beforehand so it wouldn't pull the moisture out.

[00:15:04] Eric Goranson: How do you deal with that when it comes to tile? Cause I know this is a whole different subject we're talking about versus putting on a high string concrete versus. You know, some kind of mortar that you're dealing with, actually, you'd be

[00:15:16] William White: surprised that that, you know, giving that surface just a damp sponge.

[00:15:21] William White: We don't want standing water. Yep. We actually call it S S D Surface Saturate Dry, so we wanna. Rub the surface a little bit with some water. Mm-hmm. But we don't want any cuddling, so we do want it to be dry when we apply our mortar. Yeah. So that's never a bad idea because like you said, the thirsty concrete or foundation wants to rob that mortar, the water from the mortar.

[00:15:44] William White: And it'll make it dry and difficult to work with. So if you can, you know, help that out and, you know, give the, give the concrete a drink first. Splash some water on there. Just make sure you don't have puddling. That's a great way to start.

[00:15:57] Eric Goranson: There you go. There you go. So, of course [00:16:00] you're gonna sit there and start laying tile after you get all that prep work.

[00:16:03] Eric Goranson: You know, you've got things taken a look at you, of course, gotta check out to make sure that that. Coverage porch slope in the right way. Oh, oh, okay. Yeah. You know what I mean? Just to make sure that it's not tipping back towards the house. So you've got, you know, all of a sudden you're creating a swimming pool up there versus a, a front porch.

[00:16:19] Eric Goranson: You know, make sure that's all going the right way. And I

[00:16:22] William White: guess you're right because you can't really, I. Assume right? We, we all know what our father's taught us about. Assume

[00:16:30] Eric Goranson: so. Yes. Oh, you know my dad, so you're right.

[00:16:34] William White: So throwing a level on there and just making sure that maybe things haven't settled, you know?

[00:16:39] William White: Yeah. Maybe it did have pitch and now it's dead flat. Well, dead flat isn't gonna be good. We we're gonna have to add some slope back in there and, and you know, there are products that are designed for exterior use. That can create that sloping. Mm-hmm. Because you're right, you do want water going away from the structure away from the house.

[00:16:57] William White: And that's how we keep, you know, things [00:17:00] dry and keep rot away. Just shed that water off, you

[00:17:04] Eric Goranson: know? And for our listeners, so you understand that concrete, especially when you have that big front porch stoop out there, you're putting thousands of pounds out there. And guess what? That foundation in many cases was dug out.

[00:17:16] Eric Goranson: So did they and backfilled, you know, and backfilled and so out where the end of the steps are, that's Virgin Earth that doesn't have a lot of place to compact, but the stuff up against the foundation, maybe they didn't get in there and compact that correctly. So that's why that tends to lean back towards the house and now's the time to fix it if you

[00:17:34] William White: need to.

[00:17:35] William White: Absolutely. Absolutely. And then

[00:17:38] Eric Goranson: so once we get into that, really we start getting into starting to lay tile.

[00:17:45] William White: Yeah. Yeah. Then it is time to start laying tile.

[00:17:48] Eric Goranson: So when it comes down to it, you gotta sit there and lay your tile out first. Figure out where you're gonna start and stop before you even start.

[00:17:56] Eric Goranson: Ripping that bag open.

[00:17:57] William White: Yeah. Layout is king, right? So we [00:18:00] always, when we're looking at tile installations, we want centered and balanced. That's kind of the, the guiding principle to tile is centered and balanced. And when we lay out, we want to have our cuts so that we. Typically have more than half of a tile if we have to make a cut.

[00:18:17] William White: So that's the general rule of layout is, is centered and balanced. And if there are cuts that they're over half of a tile now if you have like some funny L shape or something like that and you have a couple little slivers here or there, that's okay because you're not gonna hit everything all the time.

[00:18:32] William White: But just as guiding principles centered and balanced. And then your cuts. Any cuts that you have are larger than half of the tile now.

[00:18:41] Eric Goranson: That's great advice around the house. We'll be right back after these very important messages. Don't go anywhere.

[00:18:59] William White: Hey, this is

[00:18:59] Eric Goranson: [00:19:00] Ron Keel, the metal

[00:19:01] William White: cowboy from Keel, the Ron Keel Band, and Steeler. We are rocking. Around the house with Eric G, raise your fist.

[00:19:13] Eric Goranson: Welcome back to The Round the House Show. If you wanna find out more information about us, head over to around the house online.com. Now let's get back to our conversation about exterior tile with William White Hill, itty bitty on the edge and, and if you've got a step baby that's got a couple different stairs, you don't want that little itty bitty on the edge cuz you're gonna roll that thing right off of there.

[00:19:31] Eric Goranson: There's only so much you can do. Exactly. So you wanna make sure you got enough material to hold that on there?

[00:19:35] William White: Yep. Yep. And then once you've got your layout established, you know, I personally like to use a straight edge or I'll even put my level down and then put a couple boxes of tile on that. And I use that as a straight edge.

[00:19:50] William White: And then I'll actually set my tile up against that, that nice straight level or, or l screed or whatever I'm using. Um, and that just makes sure that [00:20:00] everything stays nice and straight on that, on that course right in front

[00:20:03] Eric Goranson: of the front door. There's nothing worse and coming up and going, wow, that's hooking to the left by three eighths of an inch.

[00:20:10] Eric Goranson: And man, it's gonna look worse than what you started. Yeah. Cause it's just gonna mess with everybody walking up

[00:20:15] William White: to the front door. And that's why I like to use a straight edge as opposed to just maybe snapping a chalk line, um, and trying to stack off of a, of a chalk line. I like to use that straight edge.

[00:20:24] William White: Yep. A lot of times if I don't have a straight edge, like I said, I just throw my level down there, put a couple boxes of tile on it, holds it nice and in place, and then I tile on the other side. Very good. Yep.

[00:20:33] Eric Goranson: Yeah, then you're good. Okay. So now that we've got layout figured out, we're gonna start laying some tiles down.

[00:20:40] Eric Goranson: Of course, I'm gonna, I've learned, well, I'm gonna throw the R decks down, but really what are you starting to look out there as far as the right material for an

[00:20:49] William White: exterior application? So there are some specifics when it comes to exterior rated mortars. Um, and if you look on the bags of mortar, look for something that says it's an [00:21:00] antsy.

[00:21:00] William White: 1 1 8 0.15 a 1 18 15 mortar means that it's a high performance polymer modified cement based mortar. With it being that high performance, it goes through some rigorous testing that says that it will survive in an exterior application. Now, like I said earlier, that's not a $10 bag of mortar. You're gonna have to jump up considerably in price.

[00:21:26] William White: But think about it. This is your investment. You're wanting to do tile outside, you have to pay the price.

[00:21:34] Eric Goranson: Exactly. So you go through, get all your tiles set, you got the mortar mixed up. Right. You're set, you're go. You're good to go. Now the world, the, you know, the world of grout comes into this and exterior, you're asking a lot out of a grout.

[00:21:49] Eric Goranson: So

[00:21:49] William White: I, what are your recommendations there? Yeah, there's actually one step that comes before that though. Before the grouting. And this is gonna sound odd to you. I know, but before grabbing is all [00:22:00] of our expansion joints. So because the sun tile is just a covering over top of the, let's use this concrete as an example.

[00:22:09] William White: You've got a, a concrete block poured in place. It's two feet thick or whatever it is by, you know, 10 feet long. That's a solid, monolithic mass of concrete. It is. It is dimensionally stable. It doesn't move very much. The tile, oh, I picked some. Pretty black porcelain to put out there, or the wife did. Now that tile covering is going to expand and contract at a different rate than the, than the substrate below it.

[00:22:41] William White: So to counter that, mm-hmm. We have to put in what are called expansion joints and expansion joints are simply just a silicone caulking joint completely around the perimeter, because we don't want the tile, we want the tile to be able to have the ability to move [00:23:00] as well as, mm-hmm. Occasionally we may have to put them in the field.

[00:23:03] William White: So there are, there are standards out there that tell us how often those have to be. Typically it's not to exceed like eight to 10 feet, um, in either direction for exterior tile. And that's, so what I like to do personally is I like to take care of all of my expansion joints before I grout. And that's because once I get going, grouting.

[00:23:26] William White: Sometimes I forget about those expansion joints. I get grout down in there. Then I'm trying to dig the grout back out. So if I just think about that beforehand, do it the day that I, you know, set that last piece of tile. Then when I go to do my grouting, I'm also not getting dirty grout water into those joints, which would then be a bond breaker for the silicone.

[00:23:46] William White: Yep,

[00:23:48] Eric Goranson: that makes sense. And that way you don't forget. You still go through. Exactly. And, and, and brainlessly keep grounding. Right. That's what all of us do. I've done it. I've learned. Oh yeah. Same. You know, you're [00:24:00]

[00:24:00] William White: in grout mode cause I want get done.

[00:24:03] Eric Goranson: Yeah, I mean, you're, you're, you're wrapping it up. The, the mental math there is, I gotta get this box checked and let's get it done and get it done, right.

[00:24:11] Eric Goranson: Yeah. So, so that, that ends up having a, you know, you get it in there, cleaned up, you got a really nice pro product there. The grout though, what are you gonna use for a grout, because I know I don't want people going in and buying that $12 box from the. From the home center and expecting it to perform for them.

[00:24:27] William White: Again, just like we were talking about with the mortars, there are the inexpensive mortars that, that you can buy at a box store or buy anywhere. I mean, you can even go to a tile distributor and buy a $10 bag. Sure. Well, the same thing goes for grout. You know that these, anytime you're doing exterior, you, you're going to have to step up and get better products.

[00:24:47] William White: And that goes for the grout as well. Um, so. Typically I'm looking for, again, back to use these NC standards, A one 18.7. Yep. That means it's been industry tested to be a high [00:25:00] performance cement-based grout. Um, and what that does is, again, they've tested it against porosity, freeze thaw stability. So, and, and as an added bonus out of that, a lot of times you can actually pick up some stain resistance as well, which is never a bad thing to have in your GR as well.

[00:25:18] Eric Goranson: Especially on an exterior application. Absolutely. Where it's gonna get beat from

[00:25:21] William White: everything. Yeah, absolutely. So look for,

[00:25:24] Eric Goranson: so I know people go ahead. I know people like to jump in and go, oh, I'm gonna go epoxy, or something like that on that. Is that something that they should think about doing outside? I know there's gonna be pluses and minuses

[00:25:34] William White: to that.

[00:25:35] William White: You know, typically epoxy's outside, I, I'm not necessarily a fan of exterior epoxy. Um, It's a little one, it's a little overkill. You know, is it, is it truly necessary? I use epoxy when I want the maximum in staining chemical resistance. Now, is that what I'm really facing on my front porch? Not really. No. So, and it [00:26:00] epoxy grouts require, you know, a little more dent attention to detail, maybe some more experience.

[00:26:07] William White: This isn't gonna be your first, first time taking a stab at epoxy grout on your front porch, so, exactly. You know, I really do think that these high performance grouts are honestly over time gonna hold up much, much better than epoxy grouts in that type application.

[00:26:26] Eric Goranson: I always worried about epoxy and uv. Am I gonna get a color change outta that?

[00:26:30] Eric Goranson: With UV is something, if I've got a lighter grout, is that gonna yellow with time? You just don't know sometimes with, with some of those products that anytime you use something that's got any kind of composite in it out there.

[00:26:44] William White: UV can be your enemy service. Absolutely. And you know, there can be yellowing that can occur.

[00:26:48] William White: Now, does that typically break down the epoxy? No, it's typically just an aesthetic thing. Um, but again, why go through all the effort and then, you know, two years [00:27:00] down the road have it turned yellow on you? I wouldn't be very happy, and that's why I typically tend to steer away from those kind of products.

[00:27:08] William White: Yeah. Makes

[00:27:09] Eric Goranson: sense. Yeah. All right, so let's go to another part of the house. Let's say we're gonna do that big back patio that's going to the pool. Okay? Okay. And I have seen some new systems out there. Maybe you're using the larger format tiles, maybe you're using even the bigger porcelain format tiles. I have seen some cool pedestal systems and stuff out there that seem really cool, but.

[00:27:37] Eric Goranson: I haven't ever used them before. Okay. So it's something that I look at and go, Hey, that's sexy. Cool. I don't know how I haven't played with yet,

[00:27:44] William White: so, you know what I mean? Yeah. They look sexy. Cool. Are they really? Um, yeah. So with pedestals, so these are plastic pedestals that typically are adjustable in height in some way or fashion, and they, mm-hmm.

[00:27:58] William White: You'll have four tiles share [00:28:00] one pedestal, so the, the corner of the tile just sits on there of each of four tiles, and they can be. There's a time and place for 'em. I wouldn't say that it's all the time and every place. Um, where I see pedestals being very, very successful are rooftop decks where you've already got existing air conditioning lines, things like that, that are running across the roof.

[00:28:24] William White: And so if you elevate. Up off that roof deck, you can still have all those electrical and refrigerant lines running across there, and your tile is suspended above it. Also, a lot of times on rooftop decks, they're pitched in such a manner that you, you don't wanna follow that pitch in the substrate. You wanna have a flat deck,

[00:28:43] Eric Goranson: so don't go anywhere around the house.

[00:28:45] Eric Goranson: You'll be right back.[00:29:00]

[00:29:01] William White: It's the end of the show.

[00:29:03] Eric Goranson: Welcome back to the Round the House Show. Now let's get back to our conversation with William White from RX as we finish up talking. How about exterior

[00:29:10] William White: tile? No. You actually want an angular surface to that, to that aggregate. Um, and that helps the Portland cement actually get a bite to the edges of it and hold it all together.

[00:29:19] Eric Goranson: So don't use river rock in your concrete. No,

[00:29:21] William White: no. Fencepost holes fine foundation. No. Well,

[00:29:26] Eric Goranson: that's fascinating, man. And you know, it's one of those things that I think that tile outside is beautiful. You know, and maybe it's not where you put the Saltillo tile out there, but. At least in our climate, depending where of course, course climate than you

[00:29:40] William White: can do depend.

[00:29:40] William White: Yeah. If you're, if you're in Arizona, there's nothing wrong with doing TLO tile outside.

[00:29:45] Eric Goranson: Right. If you're in, in our area, ain't gonna work,

[00:29:47] William White: folks. Yep. Ain't gonna work. Yeah. If you're, if you're above the frost line, that's a no-go. So cool. And,

[00:29:53] Eric Goranson: and I've seen so many exterior tile applications before we head out here.

[00:29:59] Eric Goranson: I'd love [00:30:00] what we're starting to see on wall surfaces. Now, exterior as far as using large format pieces of tile and some of the decorative stuff outside, it's really coming back

[00:30:12] William White: style wise. Well, and what I like about it is that, um, on some high rises, now they're doing. These gauged porcelain panels, which a single piece of tile can be five foot by 10 foot.

[00:30:24] William White: The cool thing about these, oh yeah, these giant porcelain tiles is the way that they're making them, that you can, they're literally graffiti proof. You can spray paint on 'em and. It'll pressure washer hang, gonna air pressure wash right off. And it's like, it's like, because I know everyone deals with graffiti, especially in downtown type situations, and having some of these products that, that are just aesthetically beautiful because like I said, they're getting porcelains to the point now where I have to walk up and touch it.

[00:30:57] William White: To know if it's real or not. It could be

[00:30:58] Eric Goranson: steel, it could be [00:31:00] wood, it could be

[00:31:00] William White: anything. Anything. And they've got these patterns that repeat, you know, it'll take, you know, a gauge porcelain, and by the way, they flip it and turn it and flip it and turn it, and the several different series, I mean, you may be able to get 6, 6, 8 tiles away before you have a repeat and a tile.

[00:31:16] William White: And if these tiles are 10 feet long, you're talking 60 feet away, you're not gonna see that repeat in a pattern. Yeah. I mean, just where they're going with with some of this. Tile cladding is, is just amazing to see. It is,

[00:31:30] Eric Goranson: yeah. It's super cool. So I saw here at, uh, my old radio station, they were redoing the lobby.

[00:31:36] Eric Goranson: Mm-hmm. And so they were doing the, I think they were like five by nine Okay. Panels on the floor. Okay. Okay. Which I was watching him set it and I was going, oh man. Oh man. Cuz I was walking up the elevators, getting in and looking at that and going, uh oh. I walked by it the next day when they'd opened that up.

[00:31:57] Eric Goranson: Uh, And I could feel every lip on about [00:32:00] four of the panels.

[00:32:01] William White: Oh, yeah. See, and now this is where we're definitely out of and they had to bust those things up. Yeah. Yep. This is where we've definitely left the D I Y zone. When you're talking about tiles that are five foot by 10 foot, this is, this is where even professionals, yeah.

[00:32:15] William White: I mean, I was at a. Five day training last week where all they were dealing with was these gauged porcelain tiles, these five foot by 10 foot, and, and now they're, the manufacturers are even pushing to get bigger than 10 foot. I mean, it's gonna, I think I, the, the largest tile now is 164 inches in length, so we, we've definitely that slab countertop

[00:32:39] Eric Goranson: material larger than

[00:32:41] William White: the Excel slabs.

[00:32:42] William White: Yeah, we've definitely left the DIY zone, but. Some of the advantages are just so amazing and contractors are now starting to buy in. I mean, like I said, I was at a five day training last week where there were contractors coming from all around the country to attend this training, to learn how to work [00:33:00] with and fabricate and move and install these really ginormous tiles.

[00:33:06] Eric Goranson: But you're, like you said though, there's nothing more durable than that in that application if it's set.

[00:33:10] William White: Absolutely. Absolutely.

[00:33:11] Eric Goranson: It's, it's just gonna be super durable. You don't have grout lines and, uh, it's just one of those things that works. These here, they had to go in and bust a couple panels out and I was just like, I came by, I caught with my shoe and I went, oh, that's

[00:33:23] William White: ugly.

[00:33:23] William White: That's not gonna work. That's well, and, and with even on a commercial job and with this gauge porcelain, it also lends itself to showers and bathroom applications. Ally just as well, because think about if you could have your shower wall in one piece of porcelain for the entire back wall. One for the side wall, one for the other side wall, I mean,

[00:33:44] Eric Goranson: huh?

[00:33:45] Eric Goranson: Kinda like my

[00:33:45] William White: house. Right. Kinda like your house. I mean, it, it suddenly, it takes maintenance down to nothing. Nothing. And that's where using Gage porcelain on the walls, epoxy grout on your floor with a mosaic. And [00:34:00] now you've got something that I wouldn't say maintenance. Just describe my shower. I wouldn't say maintenance free, but I would say that's the lowest maintenance you can ever get right there.

[00:34:11] William White: Man,

[00:34:11] Eric Goranson: I tell you what, and you're right cuz you know I've got the, the slab porcelain more of a countertop material, but it's the same thing. Yep, yep. And I've got that, the side panels, my ceiling pieces in there too. I tell you what, that was a, that was a dance that you were there for. William.

[00:34:30] William White: I'll gladly uh uh, Not be there when putting 12 millimeter porcelain on a ceiling, half inch porcelain on a ceiling.

[00:34:39] Eric Goranson: Yeah. That was not fun. Yeah. That was pushing my, my, and I had two, I had two professionals there that were, that were helping and that was their project and I was helping them to be honest. And that was all, I mean. When you're trying to get the back panel in and I have to take the light bulbs out of the light bar just to be able to [00:35:00] swing it around and get it in.

[00:35:01] Eric Goranson: Yeah. Over our heads it's not a good day.

[00:35:03] William White: Yeah. So, I mean, big tiles, they, they can prevent or present some, some really interesting challenges. Uh, but I think some of the benefits that they provide are, are going to be really fun to see what guys do with 'em in the future.

[00:35:18] Eric Goranson: Yeah. Like in my house, we actually created the template.

[00:35:21] Eric Goranson: And we actually did a walk in the door, up the stairs, around the corner, around the other corner to see if we could actually get that in the room. A practice

[00:35:34] William White: run with just the template.

[00:35:37] Eric Goranson: Just a template. Yeah, because I wasn't sure if we were gonna get that in the bathroom or not. We, it was

[00:35:41] William White: close. And that's taking the bathroom door off, taking the bedroom door off, right?

[00:35:44] William White: I mean door off. Oh

[00:35:45] Eric Goranson: yeah. It was, it was stripped down. I mean, it was like, okay, I'm gonna have to take drywall out cuz I'll patch drywall if I gotta get this in there.

[00:35:51] William White: Yeah. Yeah. So there are some interesting challenges to it, but, uh, it, it'll be fun to see where, where tile

[00:35:58] Eric Goranson: goes. Yeah. Hey, one thing [00:36:00] before we go, I don't know if you caught the episode with, uh, our friend Amber.

[00:36:03] Eric Goranson: She was challenging you to get down and, uh, get down to Colorado Springs and teach her, uh, how to do a shower in her

[00:36:10] William White: other bathroom. That's right. She has one more bathroom to finish up. And, uh, I did, I made Amber a promise that, uh, that I would teach her how to tile her own bathroom so that she could show up that very shoddy contractor who came into her house and did some bad work.

[00:36:26] William White: And then, Everything ensued from there. But, uh, yeah. So that's, you mean that

[00:36:31] Eric Goranson: convicted felon contractor that went in there? That I could say that, yeah.

[00:36:35] William White: That guy. That guy. Yeah. Um, you know, that, that whole project really, it hit home with me because I thought about my mom and my sister, and if, if somebody did that to them, like I, I would be, I.

[00:36:49] William White: I'd be incredibly upset. I mean, that's, that's where my defensiveness kicks in. And, and all I wanted to do with Amber was just, uh, I mean, inviting someone to work in your house is the most [00:37:00] intimate space, and, and he took advantage of that. And I just, I felt strongly, and I'm glad that my company, RX America's backed us, provided all the materials and we were actually able to go in there and, Fix her shower and, and put things back together.

[00:37:18] William White: In fact, my buddy Jason McDaniels, is actually in Memphis, Tennessee doing another bathroom rescue where some contractors did some shady work, some shoddy work. Oh, and he's actually fixing another bathroom right now as we speak. Man, here

[00:37:35] Eric Goranson: we go again, right? Yeah, yeah. But we'll close with this. The problem is, is there are some, Absolutely stunning people out there doing beautiful bathrooms, and there's that small percentage out there.

[00:37:47] Eric Goranson: That gives such a bad name to all the skilled professionals out there doing it.

[00:37:52] William White: Yeah, I would say if you're ever hiring a tile contractor, ask for references. And, and the thing is, is that looking at [00:38:00] photos may not always tell the entire story, but when you talk to somebody who's actually had that contractor in their house, it tells much more of a story.

[00:38:09] William White: And I always viewed, when I was a tile contractor, I viewed my customers. As friends when I left that project mm-hmm. I was friends with nearly every single one of 'em, and that's just the kind of relationship that I like to develop with my customers. So, you know, ask for references. I think that's the best thing that you can do.

[00:38:29] Eric Goranson: And if they've got a C T I number, right? That doesn't hurt c t

[00:38:32] William White: I also check with a contractor's board if, if you have one in your jurisdiction, check with a contractor's board, see what their standing is like with the construction bureau. You know, there's lots of things that you can do. Absolutely. And

[00:38:44] Eric Goranson: listen to the hour one episode of the show that just aired before this as we talk about how to hire a contractor, if you miss that hour.

[00:38:54] Eric Goranson: There we go. There you go. Absolutely. All right. William Wyatt, my friend, [00:39:00] Artex Americas. Thanks for coming on today, man, and giving me a load of information for all of our listeners out there that have been tuning in today. Thanks for coming on again, brother. Always a good time with you, my friend. All right, well thanks for coming on brother, and uh, all the information for him.

[00:39:14] Eric Goranson: We'll be in the show notes on the podcast here, or you can catch it over at around the house online.com. All right, I'm Eric G. And for William White, you've been listening to around the house.