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We got all these all-star athletes
on our team, we're saying,

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why the heck are you always
three steps behind me?

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Why are you always waiting for me to make
the next decision or hand out the next

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task or come up with the next idea?

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We get so frustrated and what we realize
is actually we haven't told them where

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they're going.

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Well, hello and welcome to another edition
of the E-Commerce Evolution podcast.

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I'm your host, Brett
Curry, CEO of OMG Commerce.

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And today we're talking about operations,

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operational constraints,
operational bottlenecks,

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issues that you need to
fix if you want to scale.

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Because here's what I believe
most agency owners like me,

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most brand owners like you,
you're really good at product,

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you're really good at
marketing or scale or growth,

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but operations, maybe that's
a part of the business.

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You don't want to think about a
whole lot, but I guarantee you,

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without operational systems,
processes, the right people,

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all of that good stuff,

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you will hit a ceiling and we're going
to bust through that ceiling on this

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episode today. So want to welcome
to the show, Ms. Jonna Lee,

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she's the founder of Spy Glass
Ops. More on that in a second.

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Jonna, how's it going?
And welcome to the show.

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Thanks, Brett. I'm really excited
to be here. It's going fantastic.

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It's spring here in Salt
Lake City. No complaints.

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Springtime in I love.

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I know. I'm ready for it. Love.

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Springtime.

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And so John and I got to hang out at
an event recently hosted by one of my

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business partners, Tom
Shipley, called Deal Con.

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Jonna was rocking the stage talking
about how to form good integrations if

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you're doing m and a, but it was all
around ops. And so your company, John, us,

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by Glass Ops,

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you guys help with your transformational
operations company, right?

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So you help with consulting,
recruiting, coaching.

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You help seven and eight figure
brands and businesses get

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unstuck and scale from
an operation standpoint.

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Can you talk a little more about that,

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a little more about your background there?

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Yeah, I think you covered it beautifully.
So my background is as a COO,

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I was in that second in command
operator position for multiple different

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successful startups, and that's where I
really learned the tools of the trade.

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And then I had the opportunity to be
an operations coach in this coaching

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program that had hundreds
of startup owners in it.

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And that was really the
big unlock for me, Brett,

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because I had hundreds of businesses
pulling back the kimono, so to speak,

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and just showing me the reel of
what's going on behind the scenes,

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what's not working, what's breaking,

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where are they struggling as they're
scaling through 7, 8, 9 figures.

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And so I got to just compile all this
data around what are the common patterns

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and themes that hold startup
founders back from achieving,

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not just the revenue and the profit
goals that they have for the business,

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but also the lifestyle, the freedom goals,

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creating a version of their company that
can actually run without them. And so

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that is really what I
became passionate about.

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And four years ago I started the company
to help entrepreneurs go through that

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critical stage of growth so that the
company can start to become an asset,

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a machine that is going to
run with or without them,

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and they're able to take that to a
successful multi eight figure nine figure

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exit. They're able to take that to a
lifestyle business that produces passive

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cashflow,

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but ultimately it's around unlocking the
founder so that they're able to achieve

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the best version of their business
and the best version of their life.

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It's so great. And yeah, allowing
the founder, the visionary,

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you've got brilliant ideas. And
again, you're a product person,

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a marketing person, salesperson, whatever.
For me, I'm all about setting vision,

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forming partnerships. I like sales,

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I like solving interesting marketing
problems. I'm not an ops guy.

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I can respect a good system.
I can spot a good system.

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I'm not going to sit down and design one,

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and at least I'm not
going to do it and enjoy.

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Myself.

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And so I've had the privilege of working
with two amazing COOs throughout the

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journey of OMG commerce in our path to

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multiple seven figures.

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So I see the value there and I'm really
excited to unpack this and give some

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insights to our listeners,

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but would love to hear from
you what are some of the

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mistakes, bottlenecks,

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issues that you see founders
running into when it comes to ops?

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Oh my gosh, how long we got? Okay,

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so I would say that statistically, right?

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So we start all of our
client relationships with
a company-wide operational

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audit.

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So we've actually looked at the data and
we've run these numbers and about 80 to

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90% of the time,

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the key and critical bottlenecks holding
startup founders back fall into one of

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four categories. The first
category is strategic vision,

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meaning they don't actually know where
they're trying to take the company or how

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exactly they're going
to get to their revenue.

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Profit goals. We want to growth is.

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Our vision exactly more better.

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That's hot strategy.

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Strategy doesn't offer your
team a direction to run in,

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and it ultimately leaves the founder
pretty directionless in terms of what

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decisions to make and
what to drive towards.

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So a lack of strategic vision or what's
an interesting one that we see, Brett,

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is that they'll have a strategic vision
that is totally out of alignment with

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their personal goals.

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So my personal goal is that I want a
lifestyle business that's going to run

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without me,

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but the version of my company that I'm
building is one where the product is

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totally reliant on me. Nothing
can move forward without me,

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and I want to double revenue
in the next 12 months.

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It's like these things are
at odds with each other.

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And so we often have to
hold up the mirror and say,

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which do you want more? And then let's
build a roadmap to get you to that and

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let's adjust your business and your
plan for growing your business.

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So it actually gets you to the goals
that you have outside of just work and

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revenue. So that's a big one
that we see fairly often.

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The second big one is
a lack of an operator,

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which should not be a surprise to anyone.

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And this is why we layered in operations
recruitment as one of our core offers

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because either you've got somebody
who's been in that role and is now no

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longer cutting it,

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in which case we have to figure out can
they grow and can the business afford

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the time that it's going to take for
them to grow into the COO that you need,

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or you do not have that person.
Maybe you think you do, right?

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Maybe it's your wife, maybe
it's your best friend,

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maybe it's a actual COO that
we hired off on LinkedIn,

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but are they actually the person
that you need in the role? Yes or no?

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And we need to go out and find that
person because like you said Brett,

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you can respect operations,

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but you respect it enough to not touch
it and to know the value of having

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someone who is an expert who
can actually do the work.

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And if the goal is getting
that building, that machine,

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that machine that consistently
produces results and spits off

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cash, you got to think about ops. And I
really liked the way you laid that out.

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And I think it's one of those
scenarios where we all do want more.

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We all do want to grow,

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but what will get you there
is not what got you here.

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What got you here won't get you
there. The title of that famous book,

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and I think that's true both in terms
of your systems or lack thereof,

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your processes, but also
that operator, right? Yes,

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the COO or the operator that got
you to 5 million or to 10 million

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is probably not the same operator that
will get you to a hundred million. And

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maybe because people can grow
and people can change and evolve,

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but generally speaking,

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you're going to have to either
upgrade that person and upskill them

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or find someone who can grow
you to 20 million, 50 million,

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a hundred million and that
type of thing. So really great.

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So I love the way you identify that.
So as you kind of lay that out,

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where do you see people in that,

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let's call it 10 to 50 million range?

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I know it's going to be different
depending on the business category,

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brands that can still be a pretty lean
team agencies, that's a pretty big team.

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What are some of the hurdles
that they have to overcome?

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What are some of the systems they need
to put in place or people they need to

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put into place to really become
that operational machine?

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So this really comes down to
a couple of core categories,

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and the big one that I see in that 10 to
50 million range is that it comes down

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to leadership and not just
can you as a CEO founder

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become a bigger,

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better version of yourself and the leader
that your company needs next from you?

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Can you step fully out of our executive
coach calls the three levels of

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entrepreneurship. The first level is
producer where you're just showing up,

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you're doing everything. Okay, we
probably got out of that a while ago.

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We stepped out of that level.
The next level is leader. Great.

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So now can we be a leader that
is able to delegate tasks,

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action, align a team, drive them towards
a vision, that's the leadership level.

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And then the third level is visionary.

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Can we actually hand off day-to-day
leadership of our team to

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managers,

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to department heads to people who are not
only able to manage tasks but actually

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make decisions on our behalf? And
when we're able to create that,

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we get to step into the third
level, which is visionary,

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where our role,

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our highest value work is to
make decisions and set strategy

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on behalf of our company and to
have the vision, to hold the vision,

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to keep the team aligned
around the vision,

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but to then to hand off the actualization
and the execution of that vision to a

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team that we've put in
place that we trust.

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So hard to do, man, so
hard. As someone who I do,

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I am a visionary, I'm not the integrator.
And so I do setting the vision,

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casting the vision,

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but giving up control
the vision or delegating

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decision-making can be quite difficult.

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Before we get there though,

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I do want to maybe step back for
a second and talk about how do you

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clarify,

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and I've got some thoughts here on what
we've done as an agency and some work

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we've done even recently internally.

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But you talk about the strategic
vision and the strategic vision is not

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more do it better, do it more. That's
not it. That's not clear at all.

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How do you coach people or what
advice do you give them to say, okay,

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it may be clear in your head,

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but the way you're saying it
is not clear to your team.

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How do you coach people in
making that vision clear?

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Yeah, a hundred percent. So the first
thing is that we have to clarify. Two,

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we have to answer two questions and how,

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what does success look like? What is
the finish line for this business?

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What are the north star goals and metrics
that we are going to drive towards?

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So what looks like
revenue, looks like profit,

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looks like a target valuation
that you want to exit at.

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It's the finish line of the
race that you are running.

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If you don't have a finish line, how
the heck are you going to run the race?

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And so what we often see challenges
around the, what is that?

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I talked to a dude at a mastermind
who exited for 50 million million.

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So now I want to exit for 50 million.
The challenge is that's the vision,

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50 million, that's the
vision. I did it right?

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But the problem is is that
50 million means nothing.

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That is a totally arbitrary number.
It's not attached to any deeper meaning.

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It's not attached to any quality
of life you're trying to create.

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It is throwing a dart at a dartboard,
picking a number and saying.

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That's not good or the value,

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value you're going to be generating and
offering to the marketplace to be worth

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50 million. It says nothing.

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A hundred percent.

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So we pick these arbitrary finish
lines and then what happens?

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It gets hard to run the race.

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And so we end up just switching the
finish line and picking a different race,

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and we end up just pivoting and pivoting
and pivoting and creating all these

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different sets of goals because we don't
actually have fundamental and intrinsic

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conviction or attachment to those goals,

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or even we end up hitting those
goals and then we feel nothing

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because it didn't mean
anything to begin with.

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And so that's the existential crisis
that we have to coach our clients through

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where they're like, wow, I really
wanted to get to seven figures.

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I really wanted to get to eight figures
and now I'm here and I'm more trapped by

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my business than ever. I'm falling
out of love with my business.

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I've never felt less free.

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I'm not doing any of the things that I
wanted to do or that I thought I could do

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by the time I reached this,

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why the hell am I doing this and do I
need you to just burn this thing down and

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walk away? So strategic
vision again is like,

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let's define the what and let's define
the what against what actually matters to

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you as a founder, as an
individual, as a human,

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and not just as an entrepreneur.

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And then let's make sure that the target
you're setting for your business is

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actually going to get you what you want.

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So that's the first part
of strategic vision.

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So good.

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I'll share a couple of insights from
some work we've done recently here at OMG

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because I really believe that setting
the mission and vision and things like

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that, it really shows the team,

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this is who we are and how
we're going to show up.

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And this is very clearly
where we're going.

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And so I'm a big fan of statements and
simple statements that carry meaning

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and that can help make
decisions and help guide you.

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And so a couple that we've
leaned into as an agency,

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and then I want to talk about
the thing called the V two Mom.

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I'm curious if you've heard of
that, talk about that in a second.

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But the first thing that we've leaned
into here over the last couple of years is

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we want to be the most trusted,

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most loved digital marketing agency
that feels like an in-house team. Now,

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that may seem a little bit like a
strange statement, most trusted,

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most love that feels kind of mushy,

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but here's what I believe
that is tied to that trust

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piece that ties back to
competence in the agency world.

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People want agencies they can trust and
that they trust your expertise and they

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feel like, Hey, if I'm getting your
feedback on something, I can count on it,

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I can believe it, I can take it
to the bank, that type of thing.

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The most loved piece is when I figured
I would get a lot of pushback on.

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But actually as I've showed this to PE
firms that I know and others are like,

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dude, I actually kind of like it
because, and we've heard this,

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we've heard this even from clients
that are leaving OMG, they're like,

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we love you guys. We love your team,
but we're leaving for this, that,

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or the other. Our team
is we sold or whatever,

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but then also feels like an in-house team.

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And so it feels like an extension of the
team. We've had people say to us, Hey,

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your team feels like my team.

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And so we crafted that in such
a way that that should guide.

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How are we going to respond to emails?
How are we going to show up to meetings?

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How are we going to respond in
Slack because of those things?

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And so that's one of the statements.

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Curious how that strikes you
Or anything that

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sparks there.

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I love that so much.

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It is a reminiscent of an exercise that
we walk our clients through EOS calls it

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the three uniques. We
call it the golden triad.

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And it is the three core
characteristics that you from

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your competitors, why would
somebody choose to work with you?

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And the example I always give is think
about McDonald's versus a five star

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Michelin restaurant, right? Here's the
vision statement. I so often hear Brett,

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and especially in the agency space,
oh my gosh, we want to be the best.

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We want to be the best
agency for e-com brands,

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but what is the best?

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That.

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Means nothing to me.
McDonald's is the best,

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but STO is a Michelin star restaurant.
McDonald's is the best at

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being fast, cheap and easy.
Those are their three uniques.

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A Michelin star restaurant is the best
at being a luxury white glove experience,

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farm to table, whatever.

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So what are the three uniques
that guide your business,

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that differentiate you from others?
What I heard you say was loved, trusted,

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feels like an extension of
your in-house team. Cool.

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What's amazing about that is that now
we get to go through our entire client

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happiness journey and anything
that does not directly drive

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love, trust, or seamless
integration, we don't do it.

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We don't do it.

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We don't have to do it because it's
not why clients choose to work with us.

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And we get to become the best at those
three things because we're not trying to

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be the best at everything
else. Everything.

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And that's where most agencies and brands
get stuck is that we're too diluted in

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who we serve in how we
serve them uniquely well.

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We try and be everything for everyone
and then we end up being nothing for no

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one.

297
00:16:26,570 --> 00:16:31,400
Yeah, it's one of those things where
you can do anything. You can be anybody.

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Your company can be anything, but it
can't be. Everything can be everything.

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You've got to choose. You got
to select. So I'm curious.

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00:16:37,370 --> 00:16:38,600
We actually went through this process.

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00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:43,250
Actually our current COO is the one that
turned me onto this called the V two

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00:16:43,250 --> 00:16:46,490
mom vision, values, methods,

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obstacles and measures.

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00:16:48,350 --> 00:16:52,820
So I think this was actually designed
by Salesforce and marketing off there.

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00:16:53,510 --> 00:16:55,940
It's really cool though.
So set your vision.

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So this is where we're going clearly
what we just talked about, your values,

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00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:02,360
so this is what we believe about ourselves
and what we will or won't do to get

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us there.

309
00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:05,510
Then your methods are these are the
things we're going to do in all these

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departments, high level obstacles,

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these things are standing in our way and
then measures. These are clear targets

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that we're setting for ourselves
in all these key areas.

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So it's been really great as we crafted
that, shared that with the team,

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I think it's, I've already heard it
sparked some interesting discussions,

315
00:17:21,950 --> 00:17:23,150
especially around the measures.

316
00:17:23,630 --> 00:17:27,680
We've got this 50% profitability
target within each department and it's

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00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:30,020
triggering everybody to look at like, Hey,

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00:17:30,890 --> 00:17:33,620
how is that going to impact the
profitability of the department, right?

319
00:17:33,620 --> 00:17:35,210
Because I know we got this 50% target,

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so I don't know that the actual
structure of the strategy really matters.

321
00:17:40,940 --> 00:17:44,450
It's way more about do you
have it? Does it make sense?

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And is it guiding the team?

323
00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:50,310
Yes, a hundred percent. And that's such
a key. That final piece is the point,

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00:17:50,340 --> 00:17:51,840
right? Because what you just said, Brett,

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00:17:52,230 --> 00:17:54,540
you've got this incredible
vivid vision in your mind.

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You as the founder know exactly what that
finishing line is exactly how you want

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to get there.

328
00:17:59,250 --> 00:18:03,900
But if you haven't shared it with your
team in a way that they not only see it

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as clearly as you see it,

330
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but also understand how they can
uniquely contribute towards it.

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What.

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You end up doing is disempowering your
team to be proactive. Because now again,

333
00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:19,170
no all-star athlete can run a race if
you don't tell them where the finish line

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00:18:19,170 --> 00:18:23,310
is. And so we got all these all-star
athletes on our team. We're saying,

335
00:18:23,460 --> 00:18:25,530
why the heck are you always
three steps behind me?

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00:18:25,890 --> 00:18:29,790
Why are you always waiting for me to make
the next decision or hand out the next

337
00:18:29,790 --> 00:18:31,500
task or come up with the next idea?

338
00:18:31,500 --> 00:18:36,060
We get so frustrated and what we realize
is actually we haven't told them where

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00:18:36,060 --> 00:18:39,120
they're going. So how the heck
could they help us get there?

340
00:18:39,150 --> 00:18:43,650
How could they walk alongside us as
opposed to behind us if they have no idea

341
00:18:43,770 --> 00:18:46,980
what to be proactive and
what to drive towards? So no,

342
00:18:46,980 --> 00:18:50,970
the framework really doesn't matter.
EOS has a great one, V two, mom love it.

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00:18:51,090 --> 00:18:53,190
We have our own right? We call
it the navigational chart.

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00:18:53,310 --> 00:18:57,420
It's less about whether it's the right
framework and more around are you being

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00:18:57,420 --> 00:18:58,800
consistent with it,

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00:18:59,130 --> 00:19:03,930
and then are you repeating it and
coming back to it constantly with your

347
00:19:03,930 --> 00:19:04,320
team?

348
00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:08,160
It takes the average person seven to
12 times of hearing something before it

349
00:19:08,190 --> 00:19:12,750
actually sinks into their brain. So we
say it once and then we're like, cool,

350
00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,690
did that. Everyone's got the vision.
Everyone knows where we're going.

351
00:19:16,470 --> 00:19:19,470
Our job becomes to be the
chief repeating officer.

352
00:19:20,220 --> 00:19:20,430
We.

353
00:19:20,430 --> 00:19:22,410
Say this again and again.

354
00:19:22,470 --> 00:19:26,820
We articulate the vision and the values
and the goals and the metrics and all of

355
00:19:26,820 --> 00:19:29,310
these things again and
again and again. And to us,

356
00:19:29,310 --> 00:19:33,090
we feel like crazy people because we've
repeated ourselves a hundred times and

357
00:19:33,090 --> 00:19:35,760
how can they not get it?
And when you feel that way,

358
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:40,200
I can promise you your team is
only just starting to get it.

359
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:41,220
Keep going.

360
00:19:41,220 --> 00:19:45,450
So good, so good. And I've heard
that forever in the marketing world,

361
00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,780
just about the time you're sick of
hearing an ad or hearing a message.

362
00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,170
Only then is the market even
beginning to pay attention, right?

363
00:19:52,170 --> 00:19:52,470
Totally.

364
00:19:52,470 --> 00:19:54,530
And it's sort of similar with
internal communication as well.

365
00:19:54,870 --> 00:19:59,070
You got to repeat it and repeat it and
repeat it before people even start to get

366
00:19:59,070 --> 00:20:01,050
it. And so
Really great. Well,

367
00:20:01,050 --> 00:20:03,780
let's talk people for a minute
because I'm a firm believer.

368
00:20:03,780 --> 00:20:07,260
This is true in the agency space, also
true in the brand space. Any business,

369
00:20:07,500 --> 00:20:10,170
you're only as good as the
people that you have on board.

370
00:20:10,170 --> 00:20:13,860
And I was listening to a podcast
founders podcast that I love,

371
00:20:14,250 --> 00:20:17,580
and they were talking about Steve Jobs
and maybe Elon Moss, maybe somebody else.

372
00:20:17,700 --> 00:20:22,020
They were talking about how they don't
worry about overpaying for great talent

373
00:20:22,020 --> 00:20:25,890
because what they've found in certain
industries may be a little bit different

374
00:20:25,890 --> 00:20:29,940
depending on your industry. But Steve
Jobs said, Hey, the best talent,

375
00:20:30,420 --> 00:20:34,110
they may be two or more times,
two or three times more expensive,

376
00:20:34,110 --> 00:20:38,160
but their work isn't two or three
times better. It's 10 times better,

377
00:20:38,220 --> 00:20:41,610
a hundred times better, the output.
And so I don't worry about that.

378
00:20:41,610 --> 00:20:45,690
I am getting the absolute best of my team
now. Everybody's on their own journey.

379
00:20:46,050 --> 00:20:50,440
And so finding the right person for you
isn't going to be what Steve Jobs was

380
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:51,280
necessarily looking for,

381
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:55,900
but how do you coach
people on finding the right

382
00:20:55,900 --> 00:20:59,050
people when to identify
that they need to hire,

383
00:20:59,230 --> 00:21:02,200
and then also would love to hear
any hiring tips that you have.

384
00:21:02,290 --> 00:21:05,290
I think this is something that scaling
businesses are often pretty bad at.

385
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:07,480
Yeah, a hundred percent. Oh my gosh.

386
00:21:07,510 --> 00:21:12,010
So this pillar of team is
probably where we do the

387
00:21:12,010 --> 00:21:14,890
most amount of work with
our clients because again,

388
00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:18,940
it actually becomes the deal breaker
systems, not the deal breaker strategy,

389
00:21:18,940 --> 00:21:19,773
not the deal breaker.

390
00:21:19,780 --> 00:21:24,760
Do you have the right people in the right
roles executing the right things and

391
00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:26,860
running in the right
direction? Without that,

392
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:31,420
your business will never be
able to scale you without that.

393
00:21:31,540 --> 00:21:33,730
You will be that point of escalation.

394
00:21:33,910 --> 00:21:37,270
You'll become the system where
every decision has to be yours,

395
00:21:37,270 --> 00:21:38,680
every idea has to be yours,

396
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:43,540
every sign off and every right task
needs your eyes on it and every

397
00:21:43,540 --> 00:21:44,373
quality assurance.

398
00:21:44,590 --> 00:21:48,460
If you are feeling stuck running the
day-to-day of your business right now,

399
00:21:48,460 --> 00:21:53,200
I can almost guarantee you a root cause
bottleneck is team. Now to be clear,

400
00:21:53,260 --> 00:21:55,600
that doesn't mean the
solution is we have to go out,

401
00:21:56,050 --> 00:21:59,560
fire everyone and then just double
all of our salaries and that will.

402
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:00,820
Fix the problem. Exactly.

403
00:22:02,260 --> 00:22:07,180
What we most often see is that clients
will have incredible team members

404
00:22:07,420 --> 00:22:08,410
on the bus,

405
00:22:08,860 --> 00:22:12,790
but what we haven't done is
created a player environment.

406
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:17,860
We have a players,
But we haven't invited them to bring all

407
00:22:17,860 --> 00:22:19,810
that they are capable of to the table.

408
00:22:20,350 --> 00:22:24,040
We haven't given them a clear strategic
vision that they can be proactive and

409
00:22:24,070 --> 00:22:26,080
innovative and creative and run towards.

410
00:22:26,470 --> 00:22:29,710
We haven't empowered them so that they
feel confident in solving their own

411
00:22:29,710 --> 00:22:32,260
problems. They have the critical
thinking skills to do it,

412
00:22:32,260 --> 00:22:35,440
and they know what they're authorized
to make decisions around versus not.

413
00:22:35,890 --> 00:22:39,610
We haven't given them the right systems
and technology so that they can be

414
00:22:39,610 --> 00:22:41,410
efficient and effective in their role.

415
00:22:41,410 --> 00:22:45,400
We're having them run around chasing down
information, picking up dropped balls,

416
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,770
putting out fires that didn't
need to exist to begin with.

417
00:22:47,980 --> 00:22:52,300
And so we're wasting all of their time
playing defense and doing all this low

418
00:22:52,300 --> 00:22:54,700
value work instead of doing
the really high value,

419
00:22:54,700 --> 00:22:57,100
high leverage things that
you actually paid them for.

420
00:22:57,820 --> 00:23:02,770
So my number one pro tip around team
is that before you go out and just get

421
00:23:02,770 --> 00:23:03,970
better people,

422
00:23:04,930 --> 00:23:07,780
make sure that you have created an
environment where your current people are

423
00:23:07,780 --> 00:23:09,910
able to bring their best to the table.

424
00:23:10,120 --> 00:23:14,530
And what that fundamentally comes down
to is us as leaders, us as the founder,

425
00:23:14,530 --> 00:23:18,340
and then the leaders that we put in place
to again, manage that frontline team.

426
00:23:18,730 --> 00:23:23,290
Do our leaders know how to build and
manage a players and manage a high

427
00:23:23,290 --> 00:23:24,370
performance team environment?

428
00:23:25,930 --> 00:23:29,350
Sometimes you don't have a players on
your team, you're not ready for them.

429
00:23:29,740 --> 00:23:34,540
You've not done the work to make your
company attractive for a players or

430
00:23:34,810 --> 00:23:36,550
where a players can shine.

431
00:23:36,550 --> 00:23:39,340
And I actually was thinking about
football while you were laying that out.

432
00:23:39,370 --> 00:23:44,230
Honestly, I'm a chiefs football fan,
longtime chiefs fan from Kansas City,

433
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:49,430
and they've had several
situations over recent years where

434
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,100
they'll have a wide receiver that'll
leave and go somewhere else and they don't

435
00:23:52,100 --> 00:23:55,250
do very good and they come back and then
they're on the chiefs. They're amazing.

436
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:59,150
And it's because you got Patrick Mahomes
as your quarterback and you got Andy

437
00:23:59,150 --> 00:24:03,500
Reed who's helping call plays. You
got a system that's a winning system,

438
00:24:03,500 --> 00:24:07,130
and so maybe a receiver that
really sucks for another team.

439
00:24:07,490 --> 00:24:10,160
You put 'em in the chief's environment
and they're going to shine because of all

440
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,520
the things around them. And so I think
that's one of the things we got to keep

441
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,850
in mind. It's not the key is
not just paying more for talent.

442
00:24:16,850 --> 00:24:20,360
That just means you're guaranteed to
have more money going out the door.

443
00:24:20,630 --> 00:24:24,350
It could work. It's not
just about hiring a talent,

444
00:24:24,410 --> 00:24:27,370
it's about having the system where
they're going to shine and the environment

445
00:24:27,370 --> 00:24:30,050
where they're going to shine.
So what are some of the things,

446
00:24:30,050 --> 00:24:34,760
some of the tips you lay
out there for business

447
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:36,620
owners, founders to say,

448
00:24:36,950 --> 00:24:40,910
am I ready for A players and if not,
what do I need to do to get ready?

449
00:24:41,540 --> 00:24:45,980
Yeah, great question. So
I would offer a reframe,

450
00:24:45,980 --> 00:24:49,340
which is you probably
already have a players.

451
00:24:49,610 --> 00:24:54,440
The question is what are you lacking
that's inviting them or not to bring it to

452
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:55,160
the table? The.

453
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:57,170
Top may be you, not the team in place.

454
00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:57,860
Correct.

455
00:24:57,860 --> 00:24:58,640
Correct.

456
00:24:58,640 --> 00:24:59,810
Yes. So right,

457
00:24:59,900 --> 00:25:04,850
there are four core HR processes that
I think every team needs to have to

458
00:25:04,850 --> 00:25:07,760
be able to consistently attract
and retain a player talent.

459
00:25:08,120 --> 00:25:12,230
You need your hiring process,
your onboarding process,
which is absolutely key.

460
00:25:12,290 --> 00:25:15,680
Do not skip onboarding. You need
your high performance management.

461
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:19,760
So that's ongoing management and growth
coaching for the people on your team.

462
00:25:20,090 --> 00:25:21,110
And then you need firing.

463
00:25:21,380 --> 00:25:26,000
How do we systematically either manage
people up if there's underperformance

464
00:25:26,180 --> 00:25:29,210
or manage them out where we determine
they're not the right fit and we get them

465
00:25:29,210 --> 00:25:32,690
off the bus? These things
need to happen systematically.

466
00:25:33,050 --> 00:25:35,720
What I often see happen is
they're happening organically.

467
00:25:36,380 --> 00:25:39,950
We're hiring by dropping a job description
on Facebook and then hiring the first

468
00:25:39,950 --> 00:25:42,530
person that comes along because we
needed this person three months ago and I

469
00:25:42,530 --> 00:25:44,960
really just need this person.
And you seem smart and competent,

470
00:25:45,860 --> 00:25:46,940
not a proven system,

471
00:25:47,060 --> 00:25:50,270
not going to get you the A player.
Most of the time onboarding,

472
00:25:50,270 --> 00:25:51,290
we skip entirely.

473
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,200
We just throw 'em in the deep end
and we say they're an A player,

474
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:55,700
they should learn how to swim.

475
00:25:56,420 --> 00:26:01,340
Truly a strong onboarding process
will three x your average employee

476
00:26:01,340 --> 00:26:05,300
retention and increase your average
employee productivity by 72%.

477
00:26:05,570 --> 00:26:08,750
And that has nothing to do with the
caliber of people that you're hiring and

478
00:26:08,750 --> 00:26:09,380
onboarding.

479
00:26:09,380 --> 00:26:13,760
That just comes down to whether you
are onboarding them effectively or not.

480
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,140
Hiring, onboarding, growth,
coaching, right? Managing.

481
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,350
This is the area where we get to
turn our B players into A players.

482
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:26,000
This is where we're creating
an environment that invites
them to be their best

483
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,510
or not. Are we tapping into
their intrinsic motivators?

484
00:26:29,780 --> 00:26:33,680
Are we creating an environment of clearly
defined accountability and radical

485
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:38,060
ownership? Are we paying our people
fairly with scalable compensation plans?

486
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:43,040
Have we defined clear and exact roles so
people know what is my job and what is

487
00:26:43,050 --> 00:26:45,150
not my job? There's a
whole checklist, Brett,

488
00:26:45,150 --> 00:26:47,820
I could even send it to
your group. I've got.

489
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:48,713
That'd be amazing.

490
00:26:49,260 --> 00:26:53,640
Eight core pillars of what goes into a
high performance, a playing environment.

491
00:26:53,850 --> 00:26:57,750
And I'm happy to share that with everyone
because just by implementing those

492
00:26:57,750 --> 00:27:01,080
eight things within your existing
business, your existing team,

493
00:27:01,140 --> 00:27:04,200
you don't even have to pay them any
more than you're currently paying them.

494
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:04,860
They.

495
00:27:04,860 --> 00:27:09,030
Promise you you will get a productivity
increase of a minimum of two x because

496
00:27:09,030 --> 00:27:13,050
that's just how big of a deal it is when
you start turning on a high performance

497
00:27:13,050 --> 00:27:13,883
environment.

498
00:27:14,490 --> 00:27:19,080
Yeah, it's so good. And I want to go
back to something I said a minute ago,

499
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:20,490
just to clarify.

500
00:27:20,940 --> 00:27:25,470
The reason I shared the Steve Jobs of
I don't care if I pay two or three x

501
00:27:25,980 --> 00:27:28,650
times for an employee, they're going to be
10 or a hundred times more valuable.

502
00:27:28,830 --> 00:27:29,700
That wasn't about salary,

503
00:27:30,990 --> 00:27:34,500
that was more about the right
person can unlock things.

504
00:27:35,010 --> 00:27:39,960
But what I think is also
really interesting about
this environment right now is

505
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:41,940
that there's a lot of A-players out there.

506
00:27:41,940 --> 00:27:44,250
There's a lot of great talent out there,

507
00:27:44,730 --> 00:27:48,750
and you can get them for a reasonable
rate, like a good competitive salary.

508
00:27:48,750 --> 00:27:53,070
It's not the insanity that
was kind of mid pandemic

509
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,770
when everything was just off the rails.

510
00:27:56,010 --> 00:27:59,070
It's kind of more of a normal
job market to a certain degree.

511
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:03,540
And so there is good talent
out there that you can find.

512
00:28:03,540 --> 00:28:07,170
So would love to have that checklist.
We'll put in the show notes,

513
00:28:07,170 --> 00:28:09,930
we'll share that with everybody, but
I also like the way you laid that out.

514
00:28:09,930 --> 00:28:13,650
So hiring, onboarding, ongoing
coaching, and then firing.

515
00:28:13,650 --> 00:28:16,500
It's got to be systematic.
That's to follow up process.

516
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,560
But I think what most people will
do are like, Hey, you're good.

517
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:23,040
So come on board and figure stuff out.
Watch this person. Watch that person.

518
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:23,873
You'll get it.

519
00:28:24,390 --> 00:28:24,810
Yes.

520
00:28:24,810 --> 00:28:27,780
Imagine if going back again,
going back to a football example,

521
00:28:27,780 --> 00:28:31,110
imagine if that happened there. That
doesn't happen. You bring on a player,

522
00:28:31,110 --> 00:28:32,850
you get 'em indoctrinated and what you do,

523
00:28:32,850 --> 00:28:35,490
they immediately go to their position
coach, they go to all these practices,

524
00:28:35,490 --> 00:28:39,600
they're watching film, they're
constantly being evaluated, everything,

525
00:28:39,660 --> 00:28:40,530
everything is thought of.

526
00:28:40,530 --> 00:28:44,190
And obviously we're not quite
like a professional sports team,

527
00:28:44,190 --> 00:28:47,940
but we need to be more like one, right?
If we want a performance-based culture,

528
00:28:48,270 --> 00:28:51,750
we could probably learn a
lot from that structure. So.

529
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:53,010
Yeah, I love that. I love that.

530
00:28:53,460 --> 00:28:57,510
I want to talk a little bit about hiring
just because I think that's something

531
00:28:57,510 --> 00:28:58,080
that.

532
00:28:58,080 --> 00:28:58,490
It's a big one.

533
00:28:58,490 --> 00:29:01,680
Is intimidating to people.
We screw it up so often.

534
00:29:01,740 --> 00:29:06,000
I can think about a couple of really bad
mistakes that I've made as a business

535
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,910
owner when it comes to hiring, but
what are some of the, yeah, yeah,

536
00:29:08,910 --> 00:29:12,630
I mean we all do, but what
are some of the hiring tips,

537
00:29:12,930 --> 00:29:15,840
insights, processes you recommend?

538
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,030
Should I go with a
recruiter or no recruiter?

539
00:29:18,030 --> 00:29:20,190
How am I going to find the right talent?

540
00:29:20,820 --> 00:29:23,910
Yeah. Okay. So a couple of best
practices when it comes to hiring,

541
00:29:24,180 --> 00:29:27,370
especially because for some
positions or many positions, Brett,

542
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:31,080
your clients are hiring remote
team members, which is amazing.

543
00:29:31,110 --> 00:29:34,530
It means we get to tap into international
job markets and all of these things.

544
00:29:34,770 --> 00:29:39,570
And also overwhelming because
when we launch our average ops COO

545
00:29:39,570 --> 00:29:43,870
hiring funnel, we can get from
500 to a thousand applications.

546
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,090
So how do we whittle that down?

547
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,830
I always say that a strong
hiring funnel is like a magnet.

548
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:53,860
What does a magnet do? A magnet attracts,

549
00:29:54,250 --> 00:29:57,910
it attracts your ideal candidate
avatar, right? You're a marketer.

550
00:29:58,450 --> 00:30:01,120
If we wanted to build a marketing
funnel, what will we start with?

551
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,840
We would start with our ideal
client avatar. Who is this person?

552
00:30:05,260 --> 00:30:07,840
What do they think about at night?
What drives them? What motivates them?

553
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:12,640
What do they want? Let's build
that for our ideal candidate.

554
00:30:12,700 --> 00:30:14,890
I call the tool that we use
for this, the job scorecard.

555
00:30:15,490 --> 00:30:17,980
We have to define success in the role,

556
00:30:18,340 --> 00:30:23,320
and then we build a hiring funnel that
is messaged towards that person and

557
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:27,850
is designed to be a magnet
that will attract them
through our process so that by

558
00:30:27,850 --> 00:30:29,950
the time they get to the
end of our hiring process,

559
00:30:29,950 --> 00:30:32,860
we have COOs who have 20
years experience being like,

560
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,110
this was the most incredible
hiring process I've ever gone.

561
00:30:35,110 --> 00:30:35,680
Through. Wow.

562
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:37,840
I'm so excited to work with your client.

563
00:30:38,020 --> 00:30:39,850
When do I get to have my next interview?

564
00:30:39,940 --> 00:30:42,070
Do you guys have any other
job opportunities available?

565
00:30:42,610 --> 00:30:47,530
You want them to be so excited
because you have built this just

566
00:30:47,530 --> 00:30:51,640
for them? What else does a
magnet do? A magnet repels.

567
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:57,190
So this funnel should be so
specific and so fine tuned

568
00:30:57,430 --> 00:31:01,900
that someone who is not your ideal
candidate will self-select out.

569
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,260
They literally will just stop. They'll
stop going through the process.

570
00:31:05,590 --> 00:31:09,910
So while we may get 500 COO applications
on our average job description,

571
00:31:10,150 --> 00:31:14,260
by the time our process is done and we're
actually looking like we're looking at

572
00:31:14,260 --> 00:31:16,240
applications, we're looking at resumes,

573
00:31:16,510 --> 00:31:20,260
we're looking at the top 20 to 30 for
that role because we have such a robust

574
00:31:20,260 --> 00:31:25,120
process that it will literally take out
95% of the candidates that apply because

575
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:26,290
they're not the right fit.

576
00:31:26,650 --> 00:31:30,730
And it would literally be a waste of me
and my team's time to have any sort of

577
00:31:30,730 --> 00:31:34,390
conversation with them or to spend
a minute looking at their resume.

578
00:31:34,750 --> 00:31:38,470
So if you're going for a remote job
market where you're getting overwhelmed by

579
00:31:38,470 --> 00:31:41,740
just sheer volume, rely on the process,

580
00:31:41,860 --> 00:31:46,720
let the process kick out 95% of people
so that you're only focused on the

581
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:50,500
5%, that could really be that
ideal candidate you're looking for.

582
00:31:51,490 --> 00:31:53,140
That's so good. That's
so good. I love that.

583
00:31:53,140 --> 00:31:57,700
The job scorecard and really thinking
about how am I going to position this

584
00:31:58,030 --> 00:32:02,260
so they get the job done so that it meets
its objectives so that I'm attracting

585
00:32:02,260 --> 00:32:07,030
the right person, repelling the
wrong person, really good. And again,

586
00:32:07,030 --> 00:32:10,780
I think a lot of us that listen to
us are marketers. If you own a brand,

587
00:32:10,780 --> 00:32:12,070
you're probably good at marketing,

588
00:32:12,580 --> 00:32:15,940
but you don't really put your marketing
hat on when you're crafting that job

589
00:32:15,940 --> 00:32:20,110
scorecard or looking at attracting
talent, but you kind of should be, right?

590
00:32:20,530 --> 00:32:23,350
There's quite a few parallels there.
It's the same thing, isn't it? It's the.

591
00:32:23,350 --> 00:32:26,950
Same. Humans be humans, and
it's a marketing funnel.

592
00:32:26,950 --> 00:32:30,190
Your hiring funnel is a marketing
funnel for your ideal candidate.

593
00:32:30,700 --> 00:32:32,470
Yeah, it's so good. So good.

594
00:32:33,070 --> 00:32:35,800
Any other specific tips you
can give on the hiring process?

595
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,650
What should that look like? Should
you outsource it? Should you do it?

596
00:32:39,650 --> 00:32:41,240
How many interviews should you have?

597
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,540
And I know there's all kinds of
conditional statements there,

598
00:32:44,540 --> 00:32:47,390
but any other tips on the hiring
process that you'd recommend?

599
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,320
So we have a eight step hiring process.

600
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:53,270
I can walk through it very
quickly if you would like,

601
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,630
but not to get too deep
into the weeds. Essentially,

602
00:32:56,630 --> 00:33:00,050
our proven hiring process is we launched
the job description on the front end.

603
00:33:00,350 --> 00:33:03,260
The job description will take them
directly to a written application.

604
00:33:03,260 --> 00:33:07,280
So the application is going to take them
off of whatever job forum they're on,

605
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:11,480
indeed or LinkedIn. We will
drop JD into these huge, again,

606
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,510
these huge ponds of
candidates, hundreds of people.

607
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:16,610
Thousands of people will
see that job description,

608
00:33:16,790 --> 00:33:19,970
but only hundreds of them will click
on the link and apply through our link.

609
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,570
So that's a huge filtration system
that kicks a lot of people out.

610
00:33:24,050 --> 00:33:27,140
Then we take 'em to the
written application. The
written application is quick.

611
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:28,550
It's easy for them to fill out,

612
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,730
but the written application takes
'em directly to a skill assessment.

613
00:33:32,090 --> 00:33:37,040
The skill assessment is where we generally
see 80% of candidates plus stop the

614
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:37,850
process.

615
00:33:37,850 --> 00:33:41,210
They literally just won't submit it
because the skill assessment is hard.

616
00:33:41,540 --> 00:33:44,360
Back to marketing here, Brett. One
thing we know about marketing funnels,

617
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,990
the greater the friction in the
funnel, the higher the quality of lead,

618
00:33:48,230 --> 00:33:52,650
right? Yep. Same thing with
hiring. So we make it hard.

619
00:33:53,270 --> 00:33:54,050
It shouldn't be.

620
00:33:54,050 --> 00:33:55,910
Hard to, what does that
look like? I know sometimes,

621
00:33:56,270 --> 00:34:01,250
so it was one thing we do as an
agency is we give them a fake project.

622
00:34:01,490 --> 00:34:04,670
Here's an made up client, and
here's a bunch of scenarios.

623
00:34:04,730 --> 00:34:06,380
What are you going to do in
those scenarios, right? Yes.

624
00:34:06,380 --> 00:34:09,890
How are you going to optimize this?
And then we grade those answers.

625
00:34:09,890 --> 00:34:11,510
Is that what you're recommending here?

626
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:16,070
Pretty much, yep. It's two to three. I
call 'em crunchy questions that again,

627
00:34:16,190 --> 00:34:20,660
your A player ideal candidate will
have no problem answering why?

628
00:34:20,930 --> 00:34:23,480
Because they've done this at
three other companies already.

629
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,750
This is as natural to them as breathing,
and in fact, they fucking love it.

630
00:34:27,020 --> 00:34:27,853
Such a nerd.

631
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:28,730
They.

632
00:34:28,730 --> 00:34:30,890
Get to the end of the skill assessment
and they're like, oh my God,

633
00:34:30,890 --> 00:34:34,340
that was so fun. I cannot wait
for this job. Most people,

634
00:34:34,430 --> 00:34:37,850
80% of people will say, this is
hard. This is going to take too long.

635
00:34:37,850 --> 00:34:40,910
I don't know how to do this. I don't
want to do this. And they will, again,

636
00:34:40,910 --> 00:34:42,050
self-select apps.

637
00:34:42,110 --> 00:34:42,943
Perfect.

638
00:34:42,980 --> 00:34:44,030
So that's the skill assessment.

639
00:34:44,180 --> 00:34:44,330
See you.

640
00:34:44,330 --> 00:34:48,140
Yep. It's a big one. From
there'll then start interviews.

641
00:34:48,470 --> 00:34:51,230
So we'll do a culture interview, a
skill interview, reference interviews,

642
00:34:51,410 --> 00:34:53,090
and then we'll finally
close them on the job.

643
00:34:53,390 --> 00:34:57,170
That's amazing. That's amazing.
Really, really helpful.

644
00:34:57,170 --> 00:35:00,920
So we've kind of set our
vision, our strategic vision,

645
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,640
and kind of mapped that out. And
we're now talking about hiring.

646
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:09,620
And let's talk a little bit about what
that environment looks like that allows a

647
00:35:09,620 --> 00:35:11,570
player to shine. I know you've
touched on a handful of things,

648
00:35:11,990 --> 00:35:14,060
but if we want a
performance-based culture,

649
00:35:14,420 --> 00:35:18,830
what are some things we need to
have in place for that to be true?

650
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,370
So I'm assuming you got the job
scorecard for when you hire somebody,

651
00:35:23,300 --> 00:35:27,320
probably a scorecard ongoing where you
can show someone how are you doing and

652
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,780
how can you do better type of thing.

653
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:32,150
And again, it comes back to onboarding.

654
00:35:32,150 --> 00:35:34,040
So we take that same exact job scorecard,

655
00:35:34,190 --> 00:35:37,100
and then on the very first day of
that new person starting their job,

656
00:35:37,380 --> 00:35:40,950
I still personally do a
culture onboarding call, right?

657
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:45,870
How important this call is in this
culture onboarding call, we cover vision,

658
00:35:45,930 --> 00:35:47,580
mission, right? Your V two mom,

659
00:35:47,580 --> 00:35:50,250
this is when you would share that
this is your vision, your mission,

660
00:35:50,250 --> 00:35:53,610
your core values. This is the team
they're going to be working with.

661
00:35:53,820 --> 00:35:54,990
This is the lay of the land,

662
00:35:55,230 --> 00:35:58,260
and this is your performance
and cultural expectations.

663
00:35:58,860 --> 00:36:02,250
So I'll say things like show up on
time to meetings and be on camera.

664
00:36:03,540 --> 00:36:07,530
Do I have to say that most of clients
would be like, no, they're a players.

665
00:36:07,530 --> 00:36:10,980
I shouldn't have to say
that. Set expectations.

666
00:36:11,490 --> 00:36:15,660
This is client. Think of your team
onboarding. Again, like client onboarding.

667
00:36:16,350 --> 00:36:18,360
We know how important it is.

668
00:36:18,810 --> 00:36:19,110
For.

669
00:36:19,110 --> 00:36:22,200
Successful client onboarding, to
have an incredible experience,

670
00:36:22,410 --> 00:36:25,500
to set realistic expectations
and to understand,

671
00:36:25,500 --> 00:36:28,350
especially in a service
industry like agencies, Brett,

672
00:36:28,590 --> 00:36:32,340
what do they need to bring to the
table in order to be successful in this

673
00:36:32,340 --> 00:36:36,450
partnership? That is exactly what
you're doing on day one. Here's us,

674
00:36:37,350 --> 00:36:40,620
here's what success looks like
in your role, job scorecard.

675
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:45,060
And then the third and critical component
to this conversation is a transfer of

676
00:36:45,060 --> 00:36:45,893
ownership.

677
00:36:45,900 --> 00:36:49,710
The single greatest characteristic
of high performance teams is radical

678
00:36:49,710 --> 00:36:54,510
ownership. So here's your job
scorecard. This is yours. Now.

679
00:36:55,590 --> 00:36:55,770
These.

680
00:36:55,770 --> 00:36:58,620
Are not my targets.
These are your targets.

681
00:36:58,860 --> 00:37:02,790
These are not my challenges to
solve my daily tasks to fix for you.

682
00:37:03,030 --> 00:37:06,840
These are your tasks, your
challenges, your growth opportunity,

683
00:37:07,260 --> 00:37:08,190
your level up,

684
00:37:08,460 --> 00:37:11,970
and in fact that the next two weeks of
training that we're about to launch into

685
00:37:11,970 --> 00:37:13,590
for you, that's yours as well.

686
00:37:14,010 --> 00:37:18,660
You are responsible for becoming the
version of you for gaining the knowledge

687
00:37:18,660 --> 00:37:23,550
that you need to hit these targets and
achieve success as measured by this

688
00:37:23,550 --> 00:37:24,810
job scorecard. Welcome to the.

689
00:37:25,050 --> 00:37:29,370
So good, so good. And some people
would hate to hear that message,

690
00:37:29,730 --> 00:37:33,180
but the right people, it will
light them up. They will love that.

691
00:37:33,510 --> 00:37:36,180
So even kind of you hint
about some of those things,

692
00:37:36,180 --> 00:37:38,910
I would assume in the hiring process
as well to kind of weed out the wrong

693
00:37:38,910 --> 00:37:39,743
people.

694
00:37:39,750 --> 00:37:42,600
Yeah. Again, the hiring process
is built for that ideal candidate,

695
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:44,550
the person who should get lit up.

696
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:46,710
When we then deliver that
message in onboarding,

697
00:37:46,980 --> 00:37:50,670
if by some reason somebody has snuck
through the hiring process and pulled a

698
00:37:50,670 --> 00:37:51,503
fast one on me,

699
00:37:51,990 --> 00:37:55,740
the onboarding is also
intense from the culture call.

700
00:37:56,220 --> 00:37:59,010
We launch 'em into what we call the
14 day bootcamp, and I tell 'em,

701
00:37:59,340 --> 00:38:02,130
the first 14 days on this rollout
are going to be intense. Why?

702
00:38:02,460 --> 00:38:06,090
Because I want to stress test you
because the person that I met in the

703
00:38:06,090 --> 00:38:08,640
interviews is not the person I'm hiring.

704
00:38:08,820 --> 00:38:13,650
That is a shiny blow up
version of the person that I

705
00:38:13,650 --> 00:38:14,460
just hired.

706
00:38:14,460 --> 00:38:18,630
The person I actually hired is a person
who's six months from now whose kid is

707
00:38:18,630 --> 00:38:21,300
sick and they left the stove
on and the mailman is here,

708
00:38:21,390 --> 00:38:22,860
and there's a client fire exploding.

709
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,950
And how do they show up to the
team meeting? That's the person I.

710
00:38:25,950 --> 00:38:26,783
Hired.

711
00:38:26,940 --> 00:38:28,890
I want to know who that person is,

712
00:38:28,890 --> 00:38:31,260
and I don't want to have to wait
six months to figure it out.

713
00:38:31,860 --> 00:38:35,800
Tell me more about that.
That is great because, well,

714
00:38:36,100 --> 00:38:40,840
we've made the mistake in the
past of making the first two weeks

715
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:42,100
month just so easy,

716
00:38:42,490 --> 00:38:44,740
and part of it's like we want to be
a great place to work and we want to

717
00:38:45,220 --> 00:38:47,860
challenge people. We want to coach
people. And sometimes we made it just way,

718
00:38:47,860 --> 00:38:51,760
way too easy, almost boring.
That has since changed.

719
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:55,900
But how do you stress test in those first
two weeks? What does that look like?

720
00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:01,240
So I want to draw a difference between
hard and disorganized. What does an A

721
00:39:01,240 --> 00:39:04,540
player want? An A player doesn't
mind a high pressure environment.

722
00:39:05,470 --> 00:39:09,520
A player doesn't mind drinking out of
a fire hose in terms of learning new

723
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:13,420
information. An A player doesn't mind
throwing themselves into something,

724
00:39:13,420 --> 00:39:15,040
getting their hands dirty
and figuring it out.

725
00:39:15,370 --> 00:39:17,500
What doesn't set people
up for success though,

726
00:39:17,650 --> 00:39:19,420
is again kicking them into the deep end.

727
00:39:19,750 --> 00:39:24,520
So we're just throwing you into things
with no structure, with no organization,

728
00:39:24,730 --> 00:39:27,430
with no guidance around what
you should be looking at,

729
00:39:27,460 --> 00:39:30,070
what you should be focused on
or what success looks like.

730
00:39:30,460 --> 00:39:34,570
So our responsibility as leadership
is to develop that structure.

731
00:39:34,570 --> 00:39:36,550
So that's what we call
the 14 day bootcamp,

732
00:39:36,820 --> 00:39:39,460
and it's that blow by blow
of for the first 14 days,

733
00:39:39,670 --> 00:39:42,100
you're going to train on these
things with these people.

734
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:44,710
You're going to watch these
meetings, shadow these client calls,

735
00:39:44,710 --> 00:39:49,540
read these books. We're going to give
you all of the information that you need.

736
00:39:50,260 --> 00:39:52,720
We're going to front load it.
And at the end of two weeks,

737
00:39:52,720 --> 00:39:55,600
the goal is that you are functional,
not that you're exceptional,

738
00:39:55,690 --> 00:39:57,520
that you're functional in the role,

739
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:01,510
and I'm going to download any and all
information into your brain that you need

740
00:40:01,510 --> 00:40:04,720
in order to become
functional. It will be hard,

741
00:40:05,290 --> 00:40:06,580
but we've got your back.

742
00:40:07,450 --> 00:40:10,900
Also included in that 14 day bootcamp
is daily check-ins with their manager,

743
00:40:11,350 --> 00:40:15,820
end of week check-ins with me, a 14
day check-in around, where are you at?

744
00:40:15,850 --> 00:40:18,160
Where are you struggling, how are you
feeling after your first two weeks?

745
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:22,570
So there's structure to it, but
that doesn't make it not hard.

746
00:40:22,780 --> 00:40:25,150
It just makes it hard with support.

747
00:40:25,810 --> 00:40:28,270
Yeah. Yeah, man, it's so good.

748
00:40:28,270 --> 00:40:31,030
So we are running out of time a bit,

749
00:40:31,030 --> 00:40:33,130
but I do want to talk
about the final two things.

750
00:40:34,210 --> 00:40:38,500
How are we coaching someone and
helping them really grow and reach peak

751
00:40:38,500 --> 00:40:41,410
performance? And then when
do we fire people as well?

752
00:40:41,410 --> 00:40:42,730
So let's talk about both of those.

753
00:40:43,330 --> 00:40:46,480
What tips or insights can you share on
the coaching and helping someone level

754
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:47,313
up?

755
00:40:47,500 --> 00:40:51,520
So the first thing is if you want a
high performance team, coach them.

756
00:40:51,940 --> 00:40:55,990
Every high performer has a coach.
Michael Phelps has a coach,

757
00:40:56,140 --> 00:40:58,630
and I hear clients say a lot,
if I'm hiring eight players,

758
00:40:58,810 --> 00:41:01,690
why should I have to
manage them? Management is.

759
00:41:01,690 --> 00:41:03,070
Coaching the best. Want a coach? Yeah.

760
00:41:03,310 --> 00:41:05,110
Correct, correct. Right.

761
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:09,580
And so I have not just coaching as in
an end of quarter performance review.

762
00:41:09,790 --> 00:41:13,870
We do active growth coaching on a
weekly or biweekly basis with our team

763
00:41:13,870 --> 00:41:17,620
members. So every week for new team
members, every other week for veterans,

764
00:41:17,860 --> 00:41:21,520
they are sitting down with their direct
manager. And what I am working on,

765
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:23,380
again, included, I'll just send Brett,

766
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:26,860
I have SOP and tools and templates
for literally all of this.

767
00:41:26,860 --> 00:41:28,360
I'm just going to give it to
your people. Does that work?

768
00:41:28,660 --> 00:41:29,500
Amazing. Amazing.

769
00:41:29,500 --> 00:41:30,730
Thank you so much. Yeah.

770
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:34,520
So that includes in there a script and a
one-on-one template for how I run these

771
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:35,353
meetings.

772
00:41:35,420 --> 00:41:38,750
But essentially I am taking the last
one to two weeks of their performance in

773
00:41:38,750 --> 00:41:42,320
the role, and we're using it
as data. Where did you do well?

774
00:41:42,500 --> 00:41:44,120
Where could you have done better?

775
00:41:44,300 --> 00:41:46,310
What are you going to do
differently moving forward?

776
00:41:46,310 --> 00:41:48,230
What are you struggling
with? What's blocking you?

777
00:41:48,620 --> 00:41:52,850
I have a lot of clients who have a
lot of fear around giving constructive

778
00:41:52,850 --> 00:41:55,910
feedback,
But you're a coach.

779
00:41:56,450 --> 00:41:59,030
Constructive feedback
is literally your job.

780
00:41:59,180 --> 00:42:01,970
What you're afraid of
is demotivating someone.

781
00:42:02,270 --> 00:42:04,280
What you're afraid of
is making them feel bad.

782
00:42:04,490 --> 00:42:07,520
But that must to do with the
culture, not the feedback.

783
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:12,650
If the culture says that
you getting feedback means
you've done something wrong,

784
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:16,070
then yeah, I'm going to be afraid to
give feedback or receive feedback.

785
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:17,240
If instead,

786
00:42:17,450 --> 00:42:22,220
feedback is an act of service
and coaching to help every single

787
00:42:22,220 --> 00:42:24,890
person on this team level up all the time.

788
00:42:25,550 --> 00:42:27,500
I have team members coming
into those meetings being like,

789
00:42:27,650 --> 00:42:30,260
what could I do better? This
is what I struggled with.

790
00:42:30,470 --> 00:42:33,260
How would you tackle this? I feel
like I really botched this meeting.

791
00:42:33,410 --> 00:42:35,360
They're looking for it.
They're leaning into.

792
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:36,140
It.

793
00:42:36,140 --> 00:42:38,890
Because they recognize it for what it is
Better,

794
00:42:38,890 --> 00:42:42,440
which is an active level of service,
and they want to get better. So again,

795
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:45,830
this is where we get into the less
tangible side of team development,

796
00:42:45,860 --> 00:42:46,250
which is like,

797
00:42:46,250 --> 00:42:51,110
what's the culture that you've built
around growth and feedback and failure?

798
00:42:51,590 --> 00:42:54,530
How does your team respond to failure?
How do you respond to failure?

799
00:42:54,860 --> 00:42:56,960
If we can control the cultural context,

800
00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:02,000
then every single day my team is showing
up, looking for an opportunity to grow.

801
00:43:02,240 --> 00:43:06,470
My job is to just hold up the mirror
and say, Hey, here's your next gap.

802
00:43:06,710 --> 00:43:09,620
Here's your next
opportunity. Grow this way.

803
00:43:11,180 --> 00:43:13,940
Yeah. Yeah. It's so good. Well,

804
00:43:13,940 --> 00:43:17,900
let's talk a little bit
about the F word firing.

805
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:22,880
So when is it time to fire
and move on from somebody?

806
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:25,160
What insights can you share with us there?

807
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:29,180
Yeah, so if we've done all the
rest of this stuff correctly,

808
00:43:29,510 --> 00:43:33,920
then firing becomes actually a pretty
easy process. We've got a job scorecard.

809
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:35,390
We gave it to them on day one.

810
00:43:35,660 --> 00:43:38,000
We transferred ownership
over those targets to them.

811
00:43:38,240 --> 00:43:42,410
We aligned their goals with company goals.
We've coached them every single week,

812
00:43:42,410 --> 00:43:46,160
and we've established a regular rhythm
where if there's a gap in performance,

813
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:49,490
we're immediately calling it out, offering
feedback and trying to correct it.

814
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:53,810
What then happens if that person
is still not able to perform?

815
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:55,550
We have an immediate conversation,

816
00:43:56,240 --> 00:44:00,620
and it's a very simple conversation that
says, Hey, this is the job scorecard.

817
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,970
We covered this on day one.
This is your job score card.

818
00:44:04,190 --> 00:44:09,080
We covered that on day one, and you're
performing down here. Help me understand,

819
00:44:09,710 --> 00:44:12,410
what do you need for you? Again,

820
00:44:12,410 --> 00:44:16,130
radical ownership stays with
them for you to close this gap,

821
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:20,210
and what do you need for me
to be successful in that?
So it's a growth coaching

822
00:44:20,210 --> 00:44:24,920
conversation to start where I call that
the pep, the personal elevation plan.

823
00:44:25,820 --> 00:44:29,450
And that is, Hey, as soon as I see
a gap, I'm going to call it out,

824
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:34,320
and we're going to co-create a game
plan for you to close that gap and take

825
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:35,640
radical ownership for doing so.

826
00:44:36,180 --> 00:44:39,990
Then if I don't see that they've closed
that gap, then we'll escalate to a pip.

827
00:44:40,380 --> 00:44:43,410
That's the last warning conversation
of like, Hey, to be clear,

828
00:44:43,890 --> 00:44:48,810
you cannot have this job if you're
not meeting the expectations outlined

829
00:44:48,810 --> 00:44:50,640
in the job scorecard. So again,

830
00:44:50,970 --> 00:44:54,810
help me understand why haven't I seen
the change and what needs to change in

831
00:44:54,810 --> 00:44:59,220
order for you to be successful, because
we both want you to be successful here.

832
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:02,840
So the PIP, that's the personal
improvement plan, right? Correct.

833
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:05,280
This is where you got to improve
here else. This is going to fit.

834
00:45:05,580 --> 00:45:06,540
And my guess is, John,

835
00:45:06,630 --> 00:45:09,960
if you are a company and you're leading
someone through this process after the

836
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:12,300
pip, some people are going to make it a
lot. People are going to be like, yeah,

837
00:45:12,300 --> 00:45:14,340
this price isn't right. Correct.

838
00:45:14,340 --> 00:45:17,880
The firing is not going to be a
surprise to anybody at that point.

839
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:19,080
You go through that process,

840
00:45:19,380 --> 00:45:22,860
it's going to be a pretty natural next
step for you and for the person you're

841
00:45:22,860 --> 00:45:23,610
firing.

842
00:45:23,610 --> 00:45:24,690
It's not a surprise.

843
00:45:24,690 --> 00:45:28,050
And what you'll actually see is
people will just quit that phrase,

844
00:45:28,050 --> 00:45:32,070
manage up or manage out. Credit to
Layla Hermo for teaching me that one.

845
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:35,130
When you've done a great job
of building a high performance,

846
00:45:35,130 --> 00:45:40,110
high pressure environment, people who
don't like that, who don't want that,

847
00:45:40,290 --> 00:45:44,580
who don't want to be held accountable
to constant growth and constant targets

848
00:45:44,850 --> 00:45:47,550
will leave. They'll literally just leave.

849
00:45:47,790 --> 00:45:50,730
Which is akay even better,
right? Than having to f.

850
00:45:50,730 --> 00:45:52,530
Fire, which is best
case scenario. Exactly.

851
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:56,820
Exactly. This is so good,
and one thing I'll share too,

852
00:45:56,820 --> 00:45:59,880
and we've had our ups
and downs as an agency

853
00:46:01,380 --> 00:46:03,630
when it comes to ops and hiring
and firing and things like that.

854
00:46:03,630 --> 00:46:05,220
But what I've also found too,

855
00:46:05,220 --> 00:46:08,910
because I think there's this fear that
business owners have too, about firing.

856
00:46:09,570 --> 00:46:14,520
I can't think of a single time
that we fired someone at OMG where

857
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:18,060
I've had outrage from the team.
Almost always it's like, yeah,

858
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:21,060
I saw that coming, right?
Or yeah, we got that.

859
00:46:21,240 --> 00:46:25,290
We did have to go through a couple of
rounds of layoffs as an agency about 18

860
00:46:25,290 --> 00:46:27,450
months ago. That sucked,
and that sucked bad.

861
00:46:27,870 --> 00:46:30,750
A lot of agencies and a lot of
e-comm brands had to do that.

862
00:46:30,900 --> 00:46:33,990
So I did get pushback there. People were
like, how could you let this person go?

863
00:46:33,990 --> 00:46:37,380
I'm like, I know. I know. It
sucked. But the firing piece,

864
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:42,390
I've never had anybody. How could you, I
mean, maybe the person's getting fired,

865
00:46:42,390 --> 00:46:45,570
but everybody else was like, yep, yep.
Saw that Maybe you're a little bit late.

866
00:46:45,780 --> 00:46:47,820
Do you want me to offer you a
reframe so that even that person.

867
00:46:47,830 --> 00:46:48,570
Please, please.

868
00:46:48,570 --> 00:46:51,090
Is on board with it? And
guys, this is, again,

869
00:46:51,090 --> 00:46:55,920
this is coming from me messing this
up so many times because I really

870
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:58,650
care about my team. I do. And
so I don't want to fire them.

871
00:46:58,650 --> 00:47:01,200
I don't want to hurt them. Oh my God.
Maybe they're going to get better.

872
00:47:01,350 --> 00:47:03,210
I'll give them just another
month. Just another month,

873
00:47:03,420 --> 00:47:05,010
and then we all know
where that ends. Anyway.

874
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:05,993
Right?

875
00:47:06,180 --> 00:47:07,560
Here's the reframe. I will offer you,

876
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:12,660
your job as a business owner is to create
a vehicle for growth. Growth for you,

877
00:47:13,110 --> 00:47:15,150
growth for your clients,
growth for your team.

878
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:19,290
People deserve to be
successful in their roles.

879
00:47:19,650 --> 00:47:23,250
They deserve to be able to
grow with your business.

880
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:27,870
And if they are in a role
where they cannot be successful
or where their pathway

881
00:47:27,870 --> 00:47:30,310
for growth had diverted from yours,

882
00:47:30,850 --> 00:47:35,770
then it is an absolute act of
love and service to let them go

883
00:47:36,070 --> 00:47:40,750
and find the other opportunity where they
will be successful that does get them

884
00:47:40,750 --> 00:47:42,400
to their goals. They deserve that.

885
00:47:42,910 --> 00:47:47,830
It is in fact selfish to
let your own emotional

886
00:47:47,830 --> 00:47:50,650
discomfort at the conversation,

887
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:54,040
keep them in a place where
they cannot be successful.

888
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:59,200
So when I show up to a
firing conversation, that's
the lens that I bring.

889
00:47:59,860 --> 00:48:00,400
And guess what?

890
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:04,240
I still get coffee every month with half
the people I've fired because they're

891
00:48:04,240 --> 00:48:07,240
so grateful and I'm so grateful,
and we love each other so much,

892
00:48:07,240 --> 00:48:10,330
and they've found another job
opportunity or started a business,

893
00:48:10,660 --> 00:48:13,570
and they've become these incredible
next level versions of themselves.

894
00:48:13,750 --> 00:48:16,810
And all we did when we fired
them was determine that, Hey,

895
00:48:16,810 --> 00:48:21,490
the next version of you can't
be unlocked here. That's okay.

896
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:24,450
That's so okay. But it's
time for us to part ways.

897
00:48:24,910 --> 00:48:29,590
And understanding that people
desperately want to be successful.

898
00:48:29,590 --> 00:48:30,040
They do.

899
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:32,950
They know that they're not
being successful with your
company if they're in this

900
00:48:33,130 --> 00:48:33,730
position, especially if you've got.

901
00:48:33,730 --> 00:48:34,360
A job scorecard.

902
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:36,360
Especially if you've going through
this, measur them against that process,

903
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:40,210
then they really know and they really
know. Right? And one story that I heard,

904
00:48:40,210 --> 00:48:41,470
this was in the book, radical Candor,

905
00:48:41,470 --> 00:48:46,150
which is one of my favorites because
I'm not naturally a candid person.

906
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:47,680
So that book really helped me.

907
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:50,710
But I love the story between
Steve Jobs and Johnny.

908
00:48:50,710 --> 00:48:52,900
Ive and Steve would ask Johnny like, Hey,

909
00:48:52,900 --> 00:48:54,550
did you give this
feedback to your teammate?

910
00:48:54,550 --> 00:48:56,920
Did you tell them this isn't good
enough? And Johnny would be like, well,

911
00:48:56,920 --> 00:49:00,580
I don't want to hurt their feelings
or whatever. And Steve would say, no,

912
00:49:00,580 --> 00:49:02,140
Johnny, you don't want to be nice.

913
00:49:02,140 --> 00:49:04,690
You're just vain and you want
people to like you, right?

914
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:08,560
It's like you've got to give
people the feedback. And of course,

915
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:13,600
we don't have to put on our Steve
Jobs and show up just the way he

916
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:17,470
did, not our personalities. But it's
one of those things that say like, yeah,

917
00:49:17,470 --> 00:49:20,920
the frame you gave, it's actually
not kindness. If you are,

918
00:49:21,580 --> 00:49:25,810
and maybe it's actually selfish if you're
holding onto somebody when you need to

919
00:49:25,810 --> 00:49:29,980
let them go so they can go not be
miserable somewhere and be successful

920
00:49:29,980 --> 00:49:30,813
somewhere.

921
00:49:30,940 --> 00:49:34,060
Or you're holding onto
that piece of feedback that
you're unwilling to tell them

922
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:37,060
when it's actually just depriving
them of the opportunity.

923
00:49:37,060 --> 00:49:37,480
To.

924
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:39,580
Know what the gap is so they
can do something about it.

925
00:49:40,030 --> 00:49:44,800
Yeah. Yeah. So good. We could keep going.
You've got me fired up for operations.

926
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:47,650
I'm not even operations guy. This is
amazing, John, this, I can't believe it.

927
00:49:48,010 --> 00:49:52,990
So good. So definitely share with
us the SOPs. I'll get that out.

928
00:49:52,990 --> 00:49:55,660
We'll put that in the show notes.
Anybody can get that. But also,

929
00:49:55,720 --> 00:49:57,910
I'm confident there are people
listening that are just like,

930
00:49:58,090 --> 00:50:01,750
I don't need the SOPs. I just want
to work with Jonna and her team.

931
00:50:02,020 --> 00:50:05,320
So how can people connect with
spyglass ops? What does that look like?

932
00:50:05,380 --> 00:50:08,680
Who are you right for? Talk
to us about working with you.

933
00:50:09,100 --> 00:50:10,450
Yeah, beautiful. So guys,

934
00:50:10,450 --> 00:50:13,360
the best way to connect with
me is actually on Instagram,

935
00:50:13,630 --> 00:50:16,180
and if you will add it
into the show notes.

936
00:50:16,180 --> 00:50:18,970
But I'm just going to give you
guys my entire resource vault.

937
00:50:19,210 --> 00:50:23,050
So DM me the code word vault, click
on the link in the show notes,

938
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:25,870
DM me on Instagram. It's the
best way to get in touch.

939
00:50:25,870 --> 00:50:27,160
What Instagram handle.

940
00:50:27,740 --> 00:50:30,020
That is at the Jonna Lee.

941
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:33,710
So J-H-A-N-A-L-I, Jonna Lee.

942
00:50:34,490 --> 00:50:37,040
Awesome. And so DM you the word vault.

943
00:50:37,430 --> 00:50:37,760
Correct.

944
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:42,140
You'll get the whole thing there.
The whole all the goods, man. Okay.

945
00:50:42,950 --> 00:50:47,000
That's amazing. Jonna,
this has been fantastic.

946
00:50:47,240 --> 00:50:50,480
I can't wait to review this, share
this with my team. Really, really good.

947
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:54,680
I know this is going to
create transformational
change for people that listen

948
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:58,910
and apply and especially those that get
your details and or work with you guys,

949
00:50:58,910 --> 00:51:03,140
but you guys are really, you're geared
to work with brands, work with agencies,

950
00:51:03,170 --> 00:51:05,960
work with just service-based companies.
You can work with just about anybody,

951
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:06,380
correct?

952
00:51:06,380 --> 00:51:09,620
Yeah. We work with online based
startups, right? So eCom brands,

953
00:51:10,010 --> 00:51:13,250
given that you're running your
business off technical systems,

954
00:51:13,250 --> 00:51:15,860
remote team building, that's the
stuff we really specialize in.

955
00:51:16,610 --> 00:51:18,980
Awesome. Jonna Lee,

956
00:51:18,980 --> 00:51:23,750
ladies and gentlemen at the Jonna Lee
on Instagram, connect with her there,

957
00:51:23,750 --> 00:51:26,630
DM her at the word vault and
you'll get all the goods.

958
00:51:26,630 --> 00:51:30,710
Also put stuff in the show notes
as well. So with that, Jonna,

959
00:51:30,770 --> 00:51:32,810
thank you so much. This was amazing.
Thanks for bringing the energy.

960
00:51:32,810 --> 00:51:34,070
Thanks for bringing the insights.

961
00:51:34,220 --> 00:51:34,760
Thank you, Brett, it.

962
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:36,080
Was fantastic.

963
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:37,393
Appreciate it.

964
00:51:37,580 --> 00:51:41,450
Awesome. And thank you for tuning in
as always. We'd love to hear from you.

965
00:51:41,690 --> 00:51:44,900
What would you like to hear more of
on the show? If you've not done so,

966
00:51:45,260 --> 00:51:48,650
please leave us a review on iTunes and
if you know somebody who's struggling

967
00:51:48,650 --> 00:51:53,510
with ops share, share with them
this episode and with that,

968
00:51:53,510 --> 00:51:55,280
until next time, thank you for listening.