Welcome back to Become a Calm Mama. I'm your host. I'm Darlyn Childress,

and I am a life and parenting coach. I'm also an

adoptive mother, and I recently shared

my whole backstory about my journey with infertility and

becoming an adoptive mom a couple of weeks ago. So if you haven't listened to

that podcast episode, I encourage you to go back just so you can kind of

understand a little bit about where I'm coming from as an adoptive

parent and why this guest is so important to me.

Because today I am talking with Jeanette

Yoff, who was our family's therapist and who

really I look at as someone who saved

my family's life and who taught me how

to become the parent I am today and really introduced me to

an entirely new framework of parenting and. And

relating to my kids and understanding that my children were

struggling with emotional regulation, and I needed to give

them those tools and those skills to

manage their big feelings in healthy ways. Jeanette

is a licensed marriage and family therapist.

She's an adoptee, and she focuses on

kids who have experienced trauma, attachment disruption,

been in the foster care system or. Or were adopted.

And I met her when Lincoln was 4, almost 5.

And I really think she was like an angel or a miracle in my life

and came right at the right time when I was so desperate

to figure out how to stop being a rageful mom, how to show

up as the mom I wanted to be without using pain or

shame or threats or manipulation or

any of those things in my parenting. So I really hope you enjoy this

episode. It is long because we not only talk about how we

met and our backstory, but also Jeanette wrote a book that

is 160 different

interventions or therapeutic exercises that

anybody can do with kids to help kids process their

big feelings. The book is called the

Traumatized and At Risk Youth Toolbox.

I swear by this book there are so many really

important and useful and practical and fun

exercises that anybody can do with their kids. So we teach

you, in this episode a bunch of these exercises. We talk

about the stress bag. We talk about the Shame witch. We talk about

Body Up Moves, which is ways for kids to ground themselves.

We do so many different tools and techniques and.

And so I want you to hang in, listen to us, get to reconnect with

each other, hear a little bit about Jeanette's story, and then

we dive into the book so you can get it on Amazon. I think it's

around $30. I promise you, it is worth every

penny. Again, it's called the Traumatized and At Risk Youth

Toolbox by Jeanette Yoff. I think of

Jeanette as my darlin. Sometimes people who work

with me, they are just so grateful that they have me in their life.

And they say, oh, you saved my family, and without you, I don't know where

we would be. And I appreciate those compliments,

but I also understand what they mean because that's how I feel about

Jeanette. She really did impact my family. We

did a lot of therapy with her. Both boys saw her

individually and as a family.

Kevin was in these sessions, I was in these sessions. And I really

attribute a lot of my work to Jeanette. And so it's just a true

delight to have her on the podcast, introduce her

to all of you, and also so you can get to know me just a

little bit more. So I hope you enjoy this episode, and we're going to

jump right in. Hi. How are you?

Good. I'm so happy to see you.

Hi. My goodness, it has been some time.

I know. Welcome to the Become a Calm Mama podcast. Thank

you so much for having me. So much

to talk about. We do. We do. I'm so happy to

introduce you to all of my audience and to catch up

and to share all the techniques you've developed.

I was telling Kevin, I was like, I'm really excited. I said, oh, I'm going

to interview Jeanette today. And he goes, oh. And

when I tell everyone why you matter so much to us, they'll understand.

But he was like, oh, that's exciting. And then I said, yeah.

I said, I'm nervous. Me, too. You're so

weird. I'm nervous, too. I'm like, why am I nervous?

Well, you're. You don't know my audience yet.

Okay. I don't know your audience. No. And they're going to love you. So

you're nervous, you know, you're like, I don't know. Am I going to do a

good job? That's true. That's true. You already did

a good job. Oh, thank you. And I think about your

boys, too, a lot because they've informed

some of these interventions. Yeah, your boys

have inspired some of these interventions. I can

only imagine. Yes. Oh, yes. I. I mean, I really

thought about all the kids I worked with and what worked.

You know, what worked. Well, let me introduce you to

the audience and tell a little bit about how we met, and

you can chime in. I have these two adopted

boys from Russia, and on the podcast, I just,

like, last episode, shared about my

story. I hadn't really kind of laid out my infertility and adoption

story in one narrative. It's not like been a secret, but it

hadn't really kind of told everybody. I shared in that episode what was

happening to me and like what it meant to have kids who were born in

Russian orphanages. And I didn't know about trauma, I didn't know about

attachment. Like, I didn't know anything.

And I was using traditional parenting methods and they were not working.

Obviously. Then I had. I met you at a parenting

workshop and you said, I work with kids five

and up at that time. And Lincoln was like

four and three quarters or something like that. And

afterwards I came up to you and I was so nervous because I'm not good

at asking for help. And I just came and I said, can you help

me? I was like so scared and I was like, he's not 5 yet, but

can you help us? I just felt like my heart was like, you

are a child therapist. You work with kids from foster and

adopt and attachment disruption. And

I just was like, I need this woman in my life. And

yeah, you said yes. Call me. No problem.

I love kids. I just love kids in general. You do.

You. You were so kind and sweet. I said, of course. Yeah,

like I'm just so passionate. Of course I want to help the next generation of

children relieve the mental health challenges that

I just were just stuck in my bones

and my soul. And I didn't have a therapist that I needed

as a child. So I really prided

myself on being that therapist that, that I needed as a child and

for the kids today that need us to be trauma

informed, attachment informed, grief and loss informed,

the layers of trauma informed. Yeah.

Yes. And I really do attribute everything in

our life to you to just. Yes, to teaching me

so much. So we did play based attachment therapy together. Your

primary focus is on kids from foster care system or

fostered up or adopt. And I learned so

much. I was in those sessions with you and I just,

I was so desperate to parent well and to

not fuck up my kid and not be a rageful mom. And

yeah, I just can. Did a great job. You did. Because I know

I'm a parent myself and I've been in family therapy with.

I'm a therapist. Like every family has

challenges and it's taking the shame out of that. It's about

growing and having a growth mindset. Even parents with

biological children, they're their own person and

you need to learn how to be attuned to them and read their non

verbal cues. And, and be curious and understand what is going

on because you're not going to know everything. Even biological parents.

No. So it's healthy to go to therapy. Yeah.

And just hear another point of view and so

that you can be and have that relationship that you want

with your child. They feel comfortable

coming to you. They're not afraid. They feel safe, seen,

heard. And you're able to soothe them because you've learned how to soothe

yourself because you know that's part of parenting a child with a

trauma history. You have to work harder. Kids pick up on that

real quick. We're not okay. They're not going to be okay. This

podcast, it is all about really learning how to

self regulate in order to show up as the

connected, compassionate parents that we want to be.

It's just this idea that you taught me early on and that I teach on

this podcast every week is that feelings drive behavior. And when our

kids don't know what to do with their big feelings, they come out

through behavior. And if you have a kid who has any sort of a

trauma or attachment disruption, those feelings are going to be more

intense and they're going to need more support to help

them. In a traditional parenting model, you

are only focused on the outside behavior. How do we change

this behavior? How do we get our kids to listen? And in

this model, it's more about like what's going on

inside. Soothing and healing that and giving some room for

those feelings to be processed and expressed and pushed through and the

nervous system be regulated and then come back online

and show up in your best self. And I think all

parents who are wanting to not do it

traditionally feel really unequipped. Whatever. Bio

kid, adopted kid, foster kid. Right. It's like, it's because

it's how our brains are wired. We are wired

to. For the pleasure principle. We want to feel good

all the time. We don't want to feel uncomfortable.

So I will tell parents it's getting

comfortable with being uncomfortable, the

discomfort and being the master of that when things

are getting intense. And one of my phrases is

what's hysterical? Really big behavior. What's hysterical

is historical and it's coming up for a reason. It

needs our attention. The leaning into the

oh, what's happening for you right now? And. And steering

clear of the phrase what's wrong with you. Yeah.

No, because that implies there's something wrong with you.

And then children will become more critical and

self judgmental and they will hide their motives from

you because now they feel that you're criticizing their

inner world. And they may have done something wrong.

And because kids do things wrong all the time, but they

need us to be patient, not assuming negative

motives. Something I want to teach is the PACE model.

Well, before you even do it, I wanted to give you a chance to talk

about your story, just how you came to this work, because we're not

focused on foster care children in this episode, but it is your

heart. And the book that you wrote, Ro is called the

Traumatized and At Risk Youth Toolbox. And it is for

therapists and professionals working with children who have had

trauma. What I love about the book is that there's so many

amazing tools, but your heart is in with those

foster kids. So tell us why. Yes.

Thank you. Like I said, I didn't get what I needed as a

child. And so that really has informed my work

with children today. And the book is for any child who's been

traumatized, any type of trauma, whether it's abuse, neglect,

attachment, separation, poverty, homeless,

incarceration, witnessing death.

So it really is a gamut of all of these different

types of adverse childhood experiences that a child

goes through. And so for me, when I started,

well, I went into therapy when I was 13 years old. Well, that

feels lucky, actually. Yeah, I was lucky that

my parents could afford therapy and thought to do it.

I went into therapy for a very big reason. I had

suicidal ideation because.

So not only was I adopted and raised in foster care for six

and a half years and had three homes. My first home was my birth

family. For the first time, 15 months of my life, my mother had mental

illness. It was deemed unsafe for me to stay with her.

She was at a crisis point in her life. There was

some neglect. Then I went into foster care six and a half years.

Then I was placed in another home to be adopted at the

age of seven and a half. So those frequent moves

had a great impact on me and my nervous system and my

ability to trust and feel secure in any relationship with any

parent. Even when I was adopted, I kept asking my mother, when are you going

to give me away? Because that's all that I knew. I mean, I just thought,

oh, this is how it works. I just keep going from one family to another,

and they end up giving me away again. And even my

father told me when they brought me to the

courthouse to be adopted, it was like eight. I

would not leave the car. I held onto the car

for dear life. I didn't know what adoption

was. No one explained it to me. That's a big concept for

a child. So My father remembers me just holding

on. And so a big part of my work is we need

to explain things to kids. We're constantly projecting adult

characteristics on children. We need to help them understand what's

happening for them, inform them. I needed somebody to tell me,

we're going to this big building, it's going to hold a courthouse, so they

understand the beginning, middle and end of the experience. You will be going

home with your family. You're not going to another family.

When I was 13, so we had two siblings. I

had two siblings and still have two siblings who were adopted.

And then we fostered another child and she

had visits with her birth mother. And this really

became, I really started quite questioning, wait

a second, where's my birth mother and why is

she not coming back for me? Wow, I must

really be unlovable. I must really be

deficient in some way. And I would tell myself, and because

kids aren't gonna talk to you about this unless they feel

comfortable, so. Or someone asks. Exactly.

Yeah. Just because they're not talking about it does

not mean they're not actively thinking about it. And you see,

I'm emotional. There's still parts of me that still

feels such compassion for my pain. I had a

lot of pain. And so she was

reunified with her birth. Oh, so you watched that

happen? Yeah, I was 12 and a half. I then

really started questioning my life, my existence.

I had depression, I had a lot of anxiety

and I didn't know what to do with all this stuff because again, no one

was. And this was the 80s, people weren't understanding of trauma

really, you know. Oh, she'll get over it. They don't remember.

Yeah, things like that. Remember I was only 15 months old.

Different babies, bodies. Remember

the, the feeling of separation. And so

when that happened, I really got down on myself

and my self esteem got worse. I felt terrible.

I had a lot of shame. And so I went into therapy. I. I

wrote a suicide note to my best friend and

I said, tonight I'm gonna do it. And I actually had codeine,

which was a medication. And I'm telling you, even doctors make mistakes.

The doctor said to me, if you take too many of these,

you could die. Oh, thanks for making that

prominent. I'm so glad. I have a plan now. Thanks. Yeah, so then I

was like coding and so

I said I was going to take the whole bottle. She told her mother, thank

God. My mother, thank God. And the

psychiatrist at the time actually was angry with me. I remember him.

Why would you do this? You have Such a good life. I mean, again, here's

a psychiatrist who was not informed. He made me feel worse

about myself that I would even do this to other people.

Not curious about why I'm acting out in this way

in such a good way. Because I need attention. That's

why it's hysterical. Hello. Hello.

Don't shame me and blame me for this behavior. Of course

you feel this way. Of course you want this part of

you. And. Yeah, so going into therapy really changed my life and

helped me really make sense of what. What happened to me. And have compassion.

That's the biggest piece for me. Once I started having

compassion for what I'd been through, I could start feeling

a sense of relief. And that's what mental health is. And

somebody heard me and. And I could cry and

cry because my adoptive mom,

I would cry a lot and that was my behavior. And she

would tell me, stop. Fear. Feeling sorry for yourself.

She got the feeling, right? Yeah. And this is where

I tell parents, when you have the feeling, right? Go, oh,

wait, what am I feeling? When my child's having a feeling, oh, she's

feeling sorry for myself. Let me name it to tame it.

I'm wondering if you're feeling sorry for yourself. And

what I really needed my mom to say to me, I'm so

sorry, honey, you're feeling so sorry for yourself. You have

a lot to feel sorry for. Yes. Just validating

is so valuable. Just saying. We say a lot. That

makes sense. That's our favorite phrase. That makes sense. Of course.

Even if, like, if. Even if I was thinking these things, I would feel the

way you're feeling. We can validate, even if the circumstance

doesn't justify it, can validate that the thought that they

have about their circumstance is

causing that feeling. And then that's also valid then.

So it's like we don't have to just, oh, well, you don't. You're not entitled

because you're so grateful. You know, you should have a good life. Or we

think to ourselves, they should not be feeling this way. There's no reason.

You had a reason. And that wasn't being validated.

And sometimes we don't even have a reason. We just feel

the way we feel because we're thinking the way we're thinking. Which is. Your

thought was an error of misunderstanding

loss. Like, how come you're. How come you weren't with your

birth mother? And she gets to be with her birth.

Yeah. And it wasn't because you're naughty or bad or something's wrong with you

circumstantial. And, you know, the way the system works. There's all these

reasons that you don't have information. So you make this

belief and that causes all this pain. Couldn't turn off

the faucet of that. It just kept

pouring out. And the more I didn't understand it and the more

my mom judged it, I would turn. I would

work really hard because we. We don't want to

disappoint our parents. We do not. We're

kids are doing the best they can, and that's being an

attachment. Important. Parent your kid,

even if it's not, you know, desirable

behavior. Right. It's uncomfortable behavior.

Right. It's saying, okay, this is what's

happening. Let me dive in a little bit. It's not

going to turn it. Like the thermostat. You're not going to turn the thermostat

up. You're actually going to turn the thermostat down. When you

just lean in a little bit and be curious and.

And listen and. Because kids just need a lot of listening.

I do too. I always say they don't have a best friend, they don't have

a husband, they don't have a wife, they don't have a partner. They don't have.

I have all those people, and I still have all these feelings, but they're

little. They don't have. They don't have that in their life. You're. That

if. If it's a privilege to be that for them.

Actually, Yeah. I mean, listen, I'm a therapist

and. And. And I still. My son was in the car one

day and he was having some really big feelings, and I went, okay,

I'm just gonna sit here. I'm just going to

sit in the discomfort. Like I tell all my families, I'm

going to be uncomfortable. And I was really uncomfortable. I didn't have the

words. I just said, I'm here for you. I hear

you. I get it. This is really hard. And we're

very much on. We're going to get through this so that he doesn't feel

othered alone. It's not about you. This is about us.

And I'm here with you. I'm your mother. I'm going to do the best that

I can. We're going to figure this out together. And this

is really, really hard. And that. That's enough. That's

therapeutic in and of itself. And then he was like, okay, bye, mom.

Like, okay. Yeah. We often think that we need to have some

kind of plan for the feelings and one of the questions

that I ask myself a lot is, what

does one do with sadness? It's this question that I. It's like

a giant question that I ask kind of frequently. It's

so hard to have a big emotion and then not to

know what to do about it and how to process

it or feel it and wait for it to pass is pretty much

the answer. Because the feelings are

clouds, and they're like the weather, and it comes and goes, and you can just

wait. And, you know, in Michigan, they say that if you

don't like the weather, wait an hour because it changes really frequently.

It's kind of like a feeling like you don't have to bypass it. You can

sit in it. And especially if it's witnessed and

seen, then the. The nervous system, the body, the brain kind of shifts

on its own. Yeah. So sometimes just sitting,

being present, being that witness. Right. Because grief is

nonlinear, and it will come out at. At

random times. And it could be just a little

tinge of something. It could even be a commercial that they just saw

that reminds them of their loss. And, like, I

talk a lot about genetic mirroring. If they don't have that genetic mirroring,

it reminds them of their loss. Like, I would go to my friend's house and

see their parents and go, she looks just like her mom.

Who do I look like? I don't have that

mirroring. And that just going to my friend's house and seeing that

triggered my loss. And I would have anxiety because I would then start

thinking about that, and then I'd have to turn it off and

push it down and repress it. Which actually, when we

repress stress, it compounds itself, and that's what

creates anxiety. And

compressing internalized anger becomes

suicidal ideation. So we want to have conversations

with kids. We want to externalize it. We want to bring

it out and go, tell me what's going on right now. You're having a lot

of big feelings and just sit and wait. And you're

a genius at externalizing. I think that's like, this book is

160 Techniques. That's right. And some are there

for therapeutic environments, for sure. But really so

much of it is just taking what's inside and putting outside in some sort of

metaphor or some sort of way you can see or experience or

manipulate or touch. And that's what you

did with my boys in our sessions. And

I was always dumbfounded. Like, your creativity, your

playfulness, just the stuff we did

in there is so cuckoo. It just was, like, so

Cuckoo. But we followed your. Your children's

leads. Like I said, we need to follow their lead. And

there's a sweet spot of being direct. Yeah. And pointing out,

like, of course you feel sad about that. Right.

Of course it's okay to have sadness and then validating that and creating a

sad bag or an anger bag or. Or of course you have stress. Stress

is a part of life. Let's create a stress bag because everybody needs

one and normalizing it and even you

having your own feeling. Snow globe. Right. Parents

to the modeling. And I think I taught you the hand model of

the brain, like you modeling that to your children. Your children

learn what they live and they'll. They'll imitate you.

Yeah. I've shared it on here that the fist model with the, you know,

amygdala in the middle and, you know, losing your top, blowing your top with the

not having access to thinking and just, you know, that. And I remember my

son during the pandemic. He was 13, and he had his

little hand model in front of me, and his fingers,

his four fingers were tipped up a little bit. And he's like, how do you

imagine I am when I'm like this, like, just, like, about to

pop up his hand? You know, and it was just. I couldn't

believe, you know, just teaching him and teaching both of them that the way

that their brain works and their stress and what it means when we

start to lose that regulation and

awareness and all the games and tools and

things that we've taught them, then they've actually been able

to emotionally coach me sometimes. That's right. Yeah,

exactly. Mom, you need time for you. For your breathing. Snow

globe. Yes. Yes. Mom, you need to go take a time out. And

it's like, oh, and even my son. And I'll go, oh, you're right.

And we need to take responsibility for sure. And give

them. We want them to witness us taking responsibility.

That's learning in and of itself. And I remember

applying, taking responsibility when I've flipped my

lid and I said one day to my son, I said, what? Mommy just flipped

her lid? And she yelled. And I. I can

see how that scared you. And I'm really

sorry about that. And I'm going to work on that.

Will you accept my apology? And my son went, no.

And I sat there and I went, I'm just going to wait. And then literally

two minutes later, he goes, I accept your apology. And then

for real, a week later, he had flipped his lid, and

he came to me and said, mom, I'm really sorry that I

yelled. I'm going to work on that. And I just went, oh my

gosh, this works. It works, it works, it

works. And what a gift to our families. Like,

while we're raising kids for sure. But what a huge gift to them. Like, my

mission is similar to yours in, like, I want to heal the next

generation in advance. This is my thought that if you.

Yeah. If you have the tools in childhood, if we don't create

trauma or we actually heal it in real time. Right.

Ruptures and, and pain and those kinds of things that happen are

inevitable. Like you talked about all those losses. And if you

have someone witnessing and processing and giving you space and then giving you

tools because that stuff will come up again, then maybe we don't have to

get to our 20s and sabotage a bunch

and then have to go into repair. And it's

like, what would it look like if we had a whole generation of kids who

came out of their childhood not unscathed, but well equipped?

Yeah. Yeah. Bruce Perry talks about this. That there

are. Stress is a normative part of

life. We stress. We will always have stress. Yeah. And we need to

accept that. It's when it becomes in this three types of

stress, positive stress, tolerable stress, and

toxic stress stress. And that's where we vacillate between the

tolerable stress and toxic stress that we want to mitigate

so that people aren't having major diagnoses and

flipping their lids and not able to function. Yeah.

Tell us about pace. And then we're going to get everyone listening.

Get, get ready with your pens because we're gonna give a

bunch of tools and it's like really like practical

strategies. But tell us about PACE because I have had forgotten and I haven't taught

it on here. And it's so wonderful. It's a great acronym. So it

is. Daniel Hughes created it. He's the father of attachment theory

other than Bolby. He's inspired by John Bolby, but he's

really done so much research and written multiple books on the

subject. And so PACE is an

acronym to pace. So he teaches it. Pace

your child. I teach it Pace yourself first. Because

we want to work on our own regulation first, then you pace your child.

So P stands for P3 be patient,

present and playful. And this is whenever you see any

behavior. Any behavior. So, and you don't have to go in this

order. P, A, C, E. But it's. It's an acronym that's easy to

remember. Next time you see behavior, you're like, okay, pace, what am I going to

do? P, A, C or E or C and E. So A

is always convey non verbally, I

accept you. I love you. And you may not accept

that they just threw their cell phone right. And crossed the

way and hit it on the wall. Or you don't accept that they threw something

and broke something special in your home or said cuss words

at you. You don't accept that. Right. There's limits to

undesirable behavior. But we're always conveying,

I love you. And that's how you would talk to them. I love it. I

love you. I don't love it when you kick the dog. Okay, so

you're putting the emphasis on the behavior, not the

child. Separating out the two. When you do that, things

will shift right away. Right away. So you're always

conveying unconditionally, I love you. You just don't love their

behavior. So separate that out. C is

be curious. Always be curious. So what's happening? I see you're

noticing you're a little stressed out today. What's going on? And you can hear in

my tone, when you're curious, it actually opens

up the executive functioning of the brain of the other person.

They feel safe because your tone is safe. We're not aware

of our tone. If our tone is judgmental or

criticizing, it's not going to feel safe. And it's actually not going to be in

your best interest because they're going to hide their motives,

hide their thoughts and feelings from you because they feel criticized.

I'll have parents go, okay, ask a question like you would. Okay,

what's going on with you? There's a tone there. Now shift

it to being curious. What's going on there,

honey? And it's a shift and it's a practice.

What's happening right now, honey? Because it's what you're not saying.

I'm safe. We can talk about this. I'm

regulated. We can do this together. I'm with you.

I'm not going to judge you. I'm not going to criticize you see the difference?

Yes. For sure. Is so crucial. This is all Dan

Hughes's work. And then E is have empathy.

Pace yourself. Go, you know what? I'm going to be playful with myself because this

is hard. It is hard, right? I was quick with the giggle,

as are you. And I think it has made parenting a lot more

pleasant for me because I don't tend to take things

that seriously, like, almost to a fault. And that's a reflection

of you and the work you've done on yourself. Yes, because I

wasn't, I was, wasn't always this way because I felt

hyper vigilant. Because I, I've talked to the podcast about my own trauma

and I.9 is my ace score. It's insane.

So I had to figure out a way to

be in the world that wasn't so on guard.

Mostly because I was raising a kid who was on guard.

Yes. Yes. And so we were just like

ninja arms up, ready to fight each other and it wasn't

gonna work. I had to disarm. That's right. And

playfulness actually releases dopamine feel

good hormone. So it actually will help you stay regulated. You're

also reading your child's non verbal cues. So if they're like looking at you

like why are you laughing at me? You're gonna stop. Stop being playful. Yeah,

true. And the non verbal cues, and this is Dan

Siegel's work, the seven non verbal cues always pay

attention to your child's facial expressions. Their.

The way they're looking at you, their tone of voice,

their gestures, their posture

and their timing and intensity of responding to you. Because

that will help, you know, the dance of attachment. Sometimes we

have to move real slow here. When things are getting activated,

it's you slowing down and being aware of your non

verbal cues. It's. It's like, it's slow mo a lot

as intense emotions. It's slow mo time.

Well, it's your. That's the goal. One of the things we say

all the time on here is misbehavior is not an emergency because

the brain will trick you to think that you have to respond. We go fix

it, change it, stop and sell it. It's an intensity and it. And when you

get regulated, it's almost like you are slowing down time. Like

you're in the Matrix. Like you're those bullets. You're like, woo. It doesn't matter.

Yeah. Yes. I love that you're in the Matrix completely.

That's what it should feel like. So pace is pace

yourself first. Go. Wow. So once you recognize. I'm starting to

get reactive here. This is triggering my stuff. Okay, what

do I want to do with me first? Let's be curious. It's hard.

This is hard for you and you're doing it. Be

accepting of yourself. You're doing the best that you can. Have empathy.

Then pace your child and go, okay, I'm gonna be. I'm

gonna convey I love you. I don't love it that you just threw

your Cell phone and now it's broken. And be aware of your tone.

I mean it's a, it's mastering this. Yeah, it is mastering it. It's definitely.

I think looking at your child's crestfallen face can be

great as a tool to be like, I'm not maybe showing up the

way that I think I am. Like I'm more aggressive than I want to be.

I'm more. You're aware of the tone of voice. Wow. I'm pushing

them away with my tone. I need to take it back. The

thermostat enough. I think about acceptance a lot with,

in this pace because we all,

we all love our kids and I think that our kids

know that. And I remember Lincoln. One of the main things that made

me get help was I was putting him to bed. He was four. And I

said, honey, another hard day, just the two of us.

He's like my best friend now. It's so funny. But we were

just, I just could not know what to do with him. ADHD 4 year

old boy trauma. I mean, just so much going on. Right. And

I said, honey, I'm so sorry. You know I love you

at bedtime. And he said, I know you love me. I just don't

think you like me very much. I remember that. That's the

non verbal communication he wasn't picking up from you.

I could imagine you were probably stressed out. He saw it in your nonverbal and.

Also really not liking his behavior but not able to separate

and getting frustrated. Yeah. And I also had, I had

conflated his behavior with him. I was so stuck in fear

and so afraid. I was like, he is going to be a,

a psychopathic killer. Like I convinced myself

because he was like somewhat naughty. I mean I was also in an

extreme trauma response myself. That's why we needed

help. That's why we came to you. I needed someone

to say your child is not your behavior in

order for me to start to separate myself,

separate my thoughts about him. Yeah, I hear you. Because

parents take their children's behavior personally. Yes.

It's a reflection of me. It's because of me. Yes, that's

right. And one of my phrases is it's not a rejection of you,

their anger, it's a reflection of what they're going

through. Separate that out, piece that out and that actually

that phrase. Because I felt. So I had a secondary rejection.

Right. I'm initially with my birth family and so I had to keep telling

myself this is not a rejection of you. This is a reflection

of his unresolved trauma, grief, and loss of losing you

and your brother and your mother. So beautiful. It's

something that we can all really take to the bank,

right? Like really learning how to take all the behavior that we experience from

others. And so especially, I mean, I coach a lot of people,

teens and boy, do parents feel like everything is a

rejection. Take very personally their behavior. That's why I wanted to share

my shame witch technique. So we talked about paste. So I

do want to say this book parents can use too,

because there's a lot of handouts. You can print things out

very easy. You don't have to be a therapist to do these

interventions. Do it on yourself first. Pace yourself

first and go, okay, yeah, I can totally do this. I can teach this to

my child. And I'm going to model that. I'm going to do this too, too.

So with the rejection piece, I do want to point out that our

brains and we will perceive anger

or criticizing our judgment as a rejection. Our brains just

automatically perceive that you don't like me when someone's

angry with you. So we want to understand that and accept that.

You're saying accept that anger feels like

abandonment, especially for kids who've experienced trauma, because they take

a lot of things personally. So kids in general

do. And then kids with trauma especially do. Yes. They

have so much shame. So the shame witch technique

also came from Daniel Hughes.

In one of his books, he was talking about shame, and I really sat with

it, and I had so much shame as a kid, and I

needed somebody to separate out me from my

shame. And so I said, what if I had, like, a sandwich?

Because I'm trying to think of. I, I. The way I create is I just

sit with myself and I go, how do I explain this to

a kid concretely? I'm always thinking in that way.

Because also when we're dealing with trauma and flipping our lids, our brain

doesn't have rational concepts. It. So we want

create something complex into something concrete,

which is what I strive to do. And I go, what

metaphor could I use separating out?

And I'll just sit there and go, what's something you separate out? This is how

I create, Okay, a sandwich. So then I said, I'm

going to create something called the shame witch. So the bread on

the bottom. So this is. You're teaching this not only to your child,

but again, doing it to yourself. The bread on the

bottom is, you're a good person. You're pulling out all the good stuff. You're a

good person. You're doing the best that you can. I love in the book you

wrote that the. It's your best friend inner voice. Yes,

yes, that. That the bread is the voice that is

so loving, so kind, so encouraging. And what

does your best friend say about you? Right. Because

a lot of the work that we're understanding in trauma is building that

self compassion. So what would your best friend say to you?

Yeah, Situation. So I thought, oh, let's bridge

that too, to get people to start

having compassion. When you make a mistake, you're

not the mistake. The mistake is the mistake. And we're gonna

have objectivity and we're gonna learn about that.

And your self esteem can still be intact.

You can still feel good about yourself. Because a lot of the kids I worked

with, they would make a mistake. I'm stupid, I'm stupid, I'm stupid. There's

something wrong with me. They would go all the way to that place.

Negative talk. So the bread on the bottom is your.

Your best friend in her voice. You're a good person. You're doing the

best that you can. It's okay to make mistakes. Then whatever your favorite

sandwich is, turkey, lettuce, pickled tomato, you're going to put all the emphasis

on all the things you're doing wrong or the mistakes you're making,

and you're going to separate that out and that turkey.

That math problem is what I'm going to work on. That math

problem makes me feel stupid. But it's the math problem that's hard.

That's really hard. And I'm figuring that out. And then the

bread on top is, you're doing the best that you can. So

we're sandwiching the shame of not being able to

accomplish something, do something with objectivity,

with compassion, with a growth

mindset. You haven't learned it yet. You're still.

I'm still learning things. There's a lot I haven't learned yet.

I'm still figuring things out. Same. Okay, so the shame,

which I use on myself a lot, I go, you're doing the

best you can. This is what you're going to figure out. You're going to figure

out this problem. Don't put it on yourself. So

the middle, the pieces of the sandwich are like the

circumstance or the situation or the

challenge or. Or some of those negative thoughts you

have about yourself. That's right. All the negative

inner voice all have an inner critic. We all do. And it's

piecing that out. And really, when you do these

interventions, the intensity, frequency and duration

of those Symptoms will lessen. You're going to find,

wow, I just did the shame, which I actually feel really good.

I actually feel good about myself that I'm actually making mistakes. And I

can still feel good because. There are things that we aren't good at.

There are things that we make mistakes. And

shame. Right. Like Brene Brown is like, that's when you think that you

are a mistake. And guilt is like, I made a mistake. You know, kind of

separating that. And I think it's the same. It's all of that

combined, like, I'm not the hard thing. I'm not my

negative thoughts. That's not actually who I am. And I did a

big series on internal family systems a couple months ago and

we have learned a lot about self led energy and self energy and like your

core self. So anyone who listens regularly will

kind of like, okay, the bread parts are like your core, like

yourself. Your parts that. Your part. Free. Free

part. Right? Yeah. You're applying those shameless to yourself. Like,

if there's something you've done as a parent that you feel ashamed about,

piece it out for yourself. So, okay, you're gonna figure that out. You're

learning. So then I had this kid, every time he

would do homework, he'd go, I'm stupid, I'm stupid, I'm stupid. I'm just terrible.

And the parent would come to me and say, I keep telling him he's not

stupid. And so I said, okay,

that's. Let's take a step back, let's look at that.

Because when we try to turn off behavior, if I

tell you, and this is mindfulness, if I tell you right now,

don't think about a white bear. Go.

Don't think about a white. Don't do this, don't do that, don't.

What are you doing? It's making it bigger. And when I learned that

concept, I was like, wait a second. We actually have to

acknowledge that part to lessen the

intensity of that part. So this little boy, I said, told

the parent, next time he says I'm stupid, you validate. I see

there's a part of you that believes you're stupid that's so

hard that leaning into the discomfort because he didn't want his kid

to feel stupid, but he feels stupid, it's what is. That's what the

child is communicating. So parents do this all the time. They are

kind of almost argue like the child's thoughts thought, trying to like

dislodge it and with the best intention, but it's

ineffective. And it's like acknowledging the thought,

acknowledging. The feeling, and that white bear concept.

If. Just really take that in because it will help you

go, oh, I can't turn this off. And that's trauma putting on the

trauma lens. It's not that they won't behave. They can't

behave because they're three, four. And we're always,

again, projecting adult characteristics on kids. They should

behave. They can't behave like other kids their age. They're

still learning. We're all learning the shame, which then

apply it to your child. So when you see your child, I see you.

You're. You're doing the best that you can. This is really hard. And you're

doing it. And the math. So take the negative. Whatever

they're saying and the math is stupid. Help them

bridge it and put it on whatever that negative critical

voice is. Put it on the. The behavior, the action

that they took or the poor choice that they made. That's the

problem, you know, going and thinking you

can just steal a pack of gum. That's not okay.

You're okay. But stealing is not okay. And there's one more little

concept is storytelling. And in that moment when you're doing the shame, which you

go, you know what? I want to tell you a little story. When I was

little, this happened. And I learned too. Like, you know what?

I thought that you could steal things and get away with it, but we can't,

because you can add a negative consequence for that. And it's just. And

that's discipline. You're just teaching. But we're not blaming and

we're not shaming. I think that's a good metaphor in our heads to

remember. Just like, am I. Am I shame witching? Right?

I mean, really. Right. It's like, can I dislodge some of these

negative thoughts? Because. Because there are. Kids do have negative thoughts and they do have

negative behaviors. They have all of that. And if we

come alongside and we don't have the parts of the bread

that say, you're not your behavior, you are this,

you are good, you are kind, you are loving, you are lovable,

all those things, then they're not going to know. They can't

separate it because that's a very abstract concept, actually.

Metacognition. It's very difficult to separate yourself from your behavior. And so we.

But we can teach kids how to do that, right? In this very concrete way.

So I'll even have cut out circles of buns, cut

out some lettuce, pickled tomato, turkey. And we Write on it.

What are some things you can say to yourself next time when you're feeling really

down on yourself? What's your best friend and her voice can say to you so

that they have it? And that's again the externalizing. They have something

outside of themselves they can look at. It's a visual

reminder of their mental health. Right. And I'm creating

toolboxes, toolkits for kids. Now I just get a little pop up

box and every intervention we do in therapy goes in their mental health

toolbox. They have it at home because kids can't hold it

all in their heads. There's so much going on up there. They

have the visual. Oh, I got my sad back. I got my anger bag. I

got my dress bag. It's right there. Yeah, let's talk about the bags

because I love it. I, I have like a calm down basket that I teach.

Right. Or like a calm basket. I used to call it a feelings basket.

You're very creative too. Yes. But a lot of them like to ideas

from you. You know, things that I've that put in it. But

it is like this concept of going to something and working through an

emotion or manipulating or showing or

you're moving your body and so talk about the stress bag, the anger bad, the

sack bad. And these are all like things that you've trademarked. Like this

is a core part of your work that's so valuable.

Yeah. Share it with us. Really helped me understand mental health

and how to help children shrink the big

feelings and have the word is containment

feeling. There's no structure to feelings. You know when you, ah,

it just, you vomit. Right. It's just really big and there's, there's no

limit to it. So what the stress bag does is it

has a place and a space and a limit to it. It all

goes here. And so we definitely want,

whether it's a stress bag, anger bag or sad bag to be visual in the

child's room. Okay. Really? It says the stress bag on

it. So the stress bag, it's your modeling. So you

have a bag with handles, index cards because we're going to

have stress busters that we write down and a variety

of stress relief tools. And you know, that could be a stress

ball bubble wrap I like to use because I, I'll explain

to kids. Like think about all the cells in your body. Well,

cortisol is a stress cell. Right. And when we're twisting

the bubble wrap, I want you to think of all the stress that you're holding

in your body and popping it one by one. And I'll have kids name it

to tame it. Like, tell me something you're stressed about. And then release

math and like my brother and

mom's work trip, whatever. Yes, right. You're. You're helping

them name entertainment. You're giving voice to it. You're giving

the releasing to it. And, and with kids who have trauma, you're

discharging trauma. And it's really important because

trauma gets stored in the body. So play doh,

bubbles, drawing paper. Um, I've even

been adding a stress tube. You know those poster

tubes so they can. Another form of containment. They

can yell in the tube, I'm stressed about this. And it

gets stuck in the tube and then they can put the end on. Oh, that's

so cute. Yeah. Right, right. Just little ways trap the

stress. Right. It's like,

because we want it out of us comfortable.

So that's the stress bag. And basically you're having all of

these items out. If you have a child who's resistant, I tell

parents, have your own stress bag too and go, you know what? Mom needs one

too. So we're both gonna do it and let's have fun

making it. Let's choose and have all the items out and you each get to

choose. Okay. And then you practice together.

And then you find a place in their room that you're going to, to put

it so they know where it is. And then a few times a week,

not. Not when they're stressed. You can use it when they're

stressed if they're able to. But we know that there's stress inside

our body, so we're going to practice releasing our stress. That's

a good point. Yeah. I do recommend that, like, you have to

practice with this stuff, like, you know, when you're not activated. Because

the idea is like, okay, I, that's why I was found breathing was

hard for me to say, okay, breathe, deep breaths.

Because I felt like my kids didn't really need to inhale. I mean, I know

it's helpful, but they almost need to like exhale.

So jump or bounce or you know, push things out

and in the moment and it's. But then if we

practice breathing at other times and just noticing how good

that felt in our body and our nervous system. Yeah, that's

how. When we're stressed and we flipped our lid, we're not receptive

to learning. No, for sure. You need to have like something you're.

You have your go tos. That's right. So the stress

bag You're. You're showing them that there are tools. We know there's

stress in there. We all have it. And we're practicing

because as we release the stress when we're not stressed, it's actually

lessening the stress because now we're giving voice to. To it because

we know this is something we could be anticipating. We're stressed about

something that happened in the past that still needs to be processed.

So it's processing the past and the future in

the present. Yeah. The anger bag. The same thing. If you have a child

who has a lot of anger, anger is the easiest emotion to have. It is.

It protects us from feeling grief, sadness, shame. Then you're going to

start with an anger bag and go, wow, we have a lot of anger in

our family. And that's okay because anger is a part of life. Right. Normalizing it,

helping them understand that this is okay. And we're gonna make

an anger bag today and have fun with this. And see the

playfulness. You're even pacing while you're doing this.

Yeah, Right. And you're showing them and modeling. You know, mom

has anger sometimes. So I'm gonna make myself an anger bag too. So here's

all the items we get to choose. Make it fun. Then we'll each take an

item out of our bag and talk about, I feel mad

when. And this is. I. I want to put it out in the play.

D'oh. Yes. And so with the Stress Buster

cards, they can write on there what they can do with their. Yeah, let's share

a couple of those. Because they're. I mean, this is what I'm saying. Like, when

I was like, I want to highlight a few strategies from the book. And I

kept going. Page 12, page 48, page 71, page 20, page

270. I mean, there's so much, right? So much good stuff. Yeah. Dress, bag.

And you'll see, like, because not everything's going to work for everybody, and

we want a variety, so we get to choose our preferences.

So, like, in the stress bag, Stress buster, stretch my body

like a cat. Stretching is good for relieving stress.

Fall on my bed backward five times. Kids like

stuff like that. Pretend I'm a statue in a museum.

Stand on my tippy toes. Walk around. Smile really big in

the mirror. Take five big, deep belly breaths.

Tighten my body and release it. Go up to someone in my house and

make a funny face. And then I have a

section on body up moves. Because

a lot of stress gets trapped in the body. And that's another intervention.

That you could actually. You could actually print this out.

Cut it out. And these are 12 cards that could be

put in the stress bag. Yeah. Let's just teach. Teach a few.

I've actually, since reading your book, been recommending this a lot in my private practice.

But like, five, four, three, two, one. Technique. And someone

mentioned it a couple weeks ago on the podcast, another guest. And then we

didn't really teach it, so I want to just make sure we teach it.

Yeah. It's a technique that helps kids get out of dissociation. If you

see them kind of spacing out, it gets them in touch with their senses

or anxiety, I think, too. Like, you get really, like, almost like a panic.

Or you're outside your body. Yep. Their brain gets hijacked, and you kind

of see them zoning out, and they're not connected

and they're kind of levitating. And you're like, whoa, I just lost him. Okay, we're

going to do the 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Name five things you can see

and make it fun. Five things you can see right now. Oh,

I see a red dot. I see a painting. I see a bird.

Four things you can touch. What are four things you can touch right now?

Three things you can hear. And stay patient, and it's

actually going to help them wind down as you do this.

And two things you can smell and one thing

you can taste. And that's so simple. And it gets tricky when

you get to taste. People are like, what? You could just say just. Just the

moisture in your mouth. Like, it doesn't. I

don't taste anything. Okay, well, that's something.

Exactly. You know, don't. We don't have to make it so complicated

that I don't smell anything. Well, that's your first smell. The first smell is nothing.

Can you smell another thing? Because they don't. They're just. Just to be silly.

That's right. And grounding also. Can

you. So you imagine your belly button is connected by a

cord to the middle of this planet, and it's a cord

that cannot be broken. And it could be made of titanium,

copper, whatever you imagine could even be an umbilical

cord. Like, that's your connection, and it's so strong and so

powerful. I want you to feel like a suction cup. And what you start

feeling is this gravitational pull, and you feel your feet

more grounded in the earth. And then if you ask someone to give you

a little push, you actually feel this

inner strength, and I call it the inner strength cord in your

body. And I'LL teach this to kids, teens and adults. Like,

whenever you're experiencing something that feels out of control and your

limbs feel like they're swaying, ground yourself like roots in a

tree. Do the grounding cord. You don't

have to do anything, but first work on your own regulation. And then

you're going to keep your lid on. You're going to be more able to

stay attuned and problem solve. Because when you flip your lid,

no more thinking, your IQ actually lowers.

It does. And if you get angry, your IQ loops too. So

you're gonna mess up. You're not gonna stay at tune. It's not even.

You may say the wrong thing, but if your tone is right,

you're therapeutic. You make up. Honey, I know we're having.

I don't know, but it's your tone.

Yeah. Soothing and comforting. So. Grounding.

Affirmation. So I really like tapping in.

Yeah. Tapping in. And it's a butterfly hug. You both put your

hands up. You cross your arms. You put your hands on your

palms on your shoulders. And bilateral stimulation

is bilaterally tapping in alternating shoulders

with a nice steady tone of tapping. This actually

integrates the brain and the body, and it actually calms the

nervous system. Just tapping. It feels so good. I've been doing it all

week, and I was thinking about those times a day,

like, say before they get in the car, you

just stand at the door and you go, okay, we gotta tap in

before you can get in. And doing that, just these, like

before school or like before homework time,

maybe even before bedtime. Bringing some of these into

your regular practice so that you can anticipate those moments when

your kids are gonna dysregulate. Pre Regulate. Something I've been talking

about a lot lately. This word I made up. Pre

regulate, everybody. So that when you then go into the

environment, the nervous system is already kind of at a

baseline. I hear the title of your new book,

Pre Regulate. And so it makes me, and

I'm share with you, what we did with Sawyer. I don't know if

you remember. I taught you. You and him

tapping in because he was having, if I may say,

some nightmares. Yeah. And I remember it

clearly. The bad guy, Wonder Woman.

And I said, this is a perfect opportunity to help

Sawyer feel a sense of security, stability,

and feel protected in his body by

internalizing the bilateral stimulation. A protective

face, figure outside of himself who's hyper,

vigilant, who's watching out for danger so that he can

rest and sleep. Yeah. Yeah. And we did. We. We

helped him tap In a protective figure. And

I remember he created sharks around his bed.

Oh, that's right. He did. Yeah. And, oh, yeah. I

remember with some kids, I'm like, wow, I see this really.

It just sticks with me. Wow, this really works. This is an intervention

that I'm gonna use. Yeah. Because yeah, if you're, like,

surrounded by sharks, you're. That aren't attacking you. You're pretty

protected. They're your BFFs. Yeah. They're gonna, like, make

sure you have. Yeah. He was definitely also a stuffed animal

guy. Like a whole army of them around him.

Yes. That gave him a sense of security, a

source of relief. Yep. He could calm his nervous system,

system and sleep. Tapping in affirmations, too.

So there is in the book, tapping in your

loving figure, protective figure, tapping in

affirmations, I am strong. I like

you messages too. Like, you can do this. Because I

feel like it kind of down downloads even deeper. Well, it's

actually. If you think about ifs, it's self energy talking to you,

talking to that part. So there is something about. I do a lot of, like,

darlin, like, I like. I talk.

I don't know who's saying my name, you know, but it's my

deeper self who's telling. Coaching me. So. Yeah, we all have

kind of these different parts of us that can talk to

each other. Yeah. And don't be afraid of that. And don't think it's

psychobabble. It's part of your mental.

Oh, yeah. It matters. Yeah. You can

do this. So. And I love it. Teaching our kids that.

That affirmations are huge. And then, like, heart

opener. I think that's really fun. Can you share that one? Yes.

Stand in the sunlight because sun is really important

vitamin D. It impacts depression or mood states.

So standing in the sun, put your hands over your heart,

take a few deep breaths in. Pour in the warm.

Imagine pouring in the warm, bright light into your

heart and to the rest of your body, it's a visualization.

Like, imagine the streams of the sunlight going into your

heart, into your body, and giving you a sense of comfort.

Working on regulating the body and the nervous system.

And, you know, you may try this with your child and go, okay, that actually

worked because she's doing it again. Mom, I want to do the heart

open. Okay, let's do it right. And if your child says that

you want to be there and you want to respond, even though you have

10 other things to do, go, you know what? This is mental health, and I

need to do it. It's in my best interest and it's in her best interest

and I'm going to do this with her. I was thinking about all like

listeners that are like about to go into winter. They're like, what are you talking

about? The sun? And I was just thinking, so sometimes we

can just imagine the sun. We can imagine pretend this, the lamp

above you. Is that I think

creativity. Not everybody thinks this way. But

if you kind of have the concept of what can I

bring into my child's body that will

feel soothing? Soothing, yes, exactly. It's

like when your babies, when you have babies and you sway them and you shush

them and you, you know, rock them. There's an intuitiveness to

that when you hold a baby, but as they get older,

you're like, I don't know what the baby version of this soothing is.

And that's what these are. Yes. And you can

use pace on any age. Don't limit it to younger kids.

Pace with your teenagers too. Yeah, yeah. As being

present, you know, the, the P's, patient present, playful.

Going into that acceptance, being curious and then having the

empathy. I wanted to say about curiosity and the

tone. So I hear parents like, why are you acting like this?

It's one of my favorite things. And I, I say let's make it not

rhetorical. Like let's actually try

to answer it, you know, and once you kind of go, why

are you acting like this? You end up in a different tone if

you, if you just get teeny bit curious

because you already are. You're like, what the hell's going on? You could be like,

what is going on? You know, just look, look for the

answer. Right. Why can feel critical

to children? Because, yes, they often don't know why. They don't

know that's why they're acting out. Correct.

They don't know why. No. They need us to help them

understand themselves, their external to their

internal. Like, I want them to be integrated within themselves.

So when I. My model is calm, connect, limit set. Correct.

And whenever I think about connection, the assumption is

that I'm connecting to my kid. That's

wonderful, but really, I don't think of it that way.

I really think empathy, compassion is how can

I help my child make sense of themselves

so that they can then have built just a massive

amount awareness of why they act the way they act and

what to do about it. That's right. That's right. That's why I teach

psycho education to children young. 7, 6. Fan

the flames. The five Fs of how we protect

ourselves when we're stressed out or overwhelmed. Fight, flight,

freeze, fawn and flop. And I have

a nice image in the book with animals helping

kids understand how animals fight flight, freeze, fawn and flop. And that's the

hand model of the brain. We all have an animal part. Yes. It's. So

once kids get it, they go, oh, I'm acting out for my

animal part right now and I need to take a break. Yeah, I

need to go to my stress bag. Go to my anger bag. I

need to do one of my body up moves like it's funny. Because

I want kids to go to therapy if they need to,

for sure. And I also think

there's not enough trained professionals to

do this much social emotional education for kids. And we can't

keep putting in the classroom either. And so where are kids

going to get it in the home? So

getting spending $30 or however much this book is, is

like one session with either of us. You know,

it's gonna cost so much more than that. And, and don't. Like

you said, do it on yourself first try. Try them out.

Just see how they feel. Exactly. It's fun,

actually. You're gonna go, wow, well, I needed this as a kid.

Now you're going to give it to yourself. And that's the gift. And once you

can do that for yourself, you're going to feel better and you're going to do

better. Yeah, you are. Yeah, you are.

So I just, I. I've said this to you already, but I

cannot believe this. This book is written and it exists in the

world with all these very. If you guys could see the way

it's written. It's so simple. Each one is like one or two pages. Pages.

The most basic information you need. You don't understand all of

why or have a whole therapeutic background.

It's just stuff to help parents. That's

right. And. And care and caregivers and professionals

get this stuff externalized. That's why I wrote. I mean.

Yeah, no, it's amazing. 160. And I think

of several of them are more than one in

one. Yeah, it's. There's, you know, like in the

stress bag, there's 10 ideas and so. Yeah,

it's just the most incredible toolbox for sure.

And I'm so glad to share, to have everyone meet

you, because I have talked about Jeanette for a

long time on the podcast and to anyone who knows anything about me and

our story, and I'm just grateful

that you, that you did the work that you did. And that you're here and

I got to know you. You're very inspiring and having a

calm mama podcast. You're helping. I know you're helping and

impacting so many mothers today, and they so need you.

Thank you for doing what you're doing. Yeah. Oh,

well, we're the best. We're. We're making

a difference. We are. We're making a difference. So thank you. You're

welcome. Thank.

You.