Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the We Are Already Free podcast. It's a pleasure to be here with you. And today I'm here with a question for you, a quite a simple question, which is do you ever feel like you are faking it? Trying to fit in to life into communities, into friendships, into businesses, into places that you really want to belong, or you feel like you're supposed to belong, but it kind of just feels off? Like those corporate team building exercises where everyone's pretending to have the time of their lives. Right now, across the world, we are drowning in surface level belonging in just floating along the surface of our connections and missing out on the incredible depth and value in finding true belonging. And this is a term that we're gonna unpack in this. What does it even mean, true belonging? What does that mean? What does it mean to be true? What does it mean to belong? And today you will discover how each of us has a unique belonging archetype, how each of us can move in the direction of authentic connection. And again, what does it even mean to be authentic? As I talk about a lot on this podcast, authenticity, I'm wondering, what do you think that means? I'd love to hear from you, your thoughts there. So our wonderful guest today is someone incredibly experienced in this area who's going to help us and support us on this path. Dan J. Berger is the author of the Quest, the Definitive Guide to Finding Belonging. He's the founder and CEO of Assemble Hospitality Group, a boutique chain of corporate retreat centers. Berger previously founded and led Social Tables, an event planning software platform which he sold to Blackstone, owned C Vent in 2018 for $100 million. He's won a bunch of awards. He holds a BA. He's basically a rad dude and he knows what he's talking about is what I'm trying to say to you right now. So thank you so much for being here. On another episode of the We Are Already Free podcast, where those of us highly sensitive, conscious misfits, change makers, weirdos and wonderful humans remember that we are already free and learn how to embody our authentic selves so that we can show up more fully and bring the medicine this world very sorely needs. When you hear the words we are already free, what comes up for you?

Acceptance. Change. The shift in awareness. Human beings are so powerful.

There's so much more. Everything is love behind it.

Breaking the chains of your own mind.

That which remains Nature getting out of the matrix. We're sitting on the treasure and it's already unlocked. We are already Free.

You're free.

You are a walking man. Have always been free. You are always free.

Already free. We are already free.

Hey, Dan, thank you for being here. Welcome to the podcast.

Thank you so very much.

I'm always curious around people who have gone deep into a particular topic. Like, the first question I always want to ask is, why you, you know, what is it that inspired you to care so much about something and do such a deep dive that you would write a book about it and like, really bring this forward in such a powerful way? Like, what happened in your journey around belonging and even could take that into what does belonging mean for you? But I'm really just curious to hear your kind of personal hero's journey.

I think the best types of people who become experts on something are the people who never had it. And not having belonging is what made me interested in belonging for myself and then for other people. I would say that my life, my early childhood, is littered with belonging traumas, which I know the word trauma is thrown out around a lot. For me, anybody's trauma is valid. Whether you grew up on an estate with horses in the English prairie or whether you grew up in the inner city. We all had different traumas and we all had different levels of pain that are actually the same across the board because we haven't experienced other people's experiences. So me poking you is the same as me cutting you if you haven't experienced being cut. So the point I'm making is that I just never had belonging my whole life. I'm adopted. So from day zero, my biological mom said, you don't belong in me. You don't belong in my family. When my parents divorced When I was 2, they said, we don't belong as a family. My dad just abandoned me. We have a. We don't have a relationship, you know, 40, 40 plus years later. And then I immigrated to the United States when I was 8, so I didn't speak a word of English. I came from here, from Israel, and I didn't belong in this new and strange land. And I was kind of negotiating my identity at that time. So for those reasons, I've always felt belongingless and I always chased it. And I then realized I need to do the work to find it.

Wow, that is a huge. That is a well summarized sort of. Well, I guess a summary of something that sounds actually really deep, really intense and really gnarly. And. And I. I'm curious if there was a single turning point or if there was a slow. Like, how did you make that Shift. Because for some people, that kind of gnarly trauma, that kind of experience of, like, well, I just don't belong. Clearly, I'm not wanted. That could be. That could be destructive of a life. And so I'm wondering for you, what enabled you to move beyond that, to move through that and to integrate that so that you can now show up in the way that you do?

Yeah, fantastic kind of question. And I think, like most things, it becomes obvious when you kind of look in the rearview mirror and you're like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. For me, it was. It was definitely a story weaved by many, but by a lot of fakeness and disingenuous behavior by myself. I would say that it probably started feeling that way when I moved to the States. And, like, I got. I saw snow or I heard English and all this other stuff. But when I realized I need to do something about it is when I had time. Because after I sold my business, I think I and Covid happened. So it was like a double whammy. It was like, time and resources are available. And then suddenly I was stuck, realizing I now have all this time in the world, I have all the space, and I don't even know where to start. You know, I don't have that safety net that I have. I've observed many people have, whether it's spiritual, whether it's interpersonal, whether it's familial, whether it's interests, communities, whatever. Everything was based on my professional life. And then I realized that I was just alone, empty and belongingless again, because I was constantly, you know, putting a lid on it. I was like. I was not exploring it. So I would say that time, the availability of time, made me realize I should focus on it. But when I dig, dig back, I've always needed it. And I remember specifically one. One scenario when I was in fourth grade in the US and I. I walked into a class with 25 kids, and there was clearly one leader and everybody hanging out with him and everybody kind of laughing at his jokes, and me obviously, sitting on the sidelines not knowing what dodgeball is. And I don't know if you guys have that in South Africa, but the. The point I'm making is I kind of was like, whoa, this is not the place for me at that time. And I worked to start changing it.

Wow. It's so interesting because I think for just a bit of context of my own story, is that I. I grew up in a house with two parents, grew up in a very beautiful part of the World really blessed in. In so many ways. So blessed, like, just so abundant. And yet I came in highly sensitive. I came in with this deep desire to just show up as myself, to just be me and be connected and be kind of in a. In a state of flow, creativity and joy with people. And I can. I'm saying these words now. I didn't have the words then, but I remember it very clearly. That feeling of, oh, should we just. Should we hang? Should we just do this life thing? And just getting totally battered, man. Like, just bullied at school, put in lockers. I mean, I. A distinct memory I have was there was some of the bigger kids at the school I was at had a rugby ball that they were kicking around and they. It kicked up onto a roof. And I looked at it and I was like, I'm a good climber. I know I could climb up the. The drain pipe and get it for them because I'm. And. And I, I've got that skill. So I was like, hey, I'll get it for you. So I did. I climbed up, got it, threw it down. And as I was climbing down, one of the guys who was playing the game grabbed me by my trousers, pulled me off and walked me around giving me a wedgie, like. And everyone was laughing. And I remember so distinctly in that moment just feeling like, this is not my. These are not my people. Like, this is not my.

I don't.

I don't understand. This does not make sense to me. How could someone, how could this be part of my reality? But what happened to me is I took all. And that was just one of many, many things related to family, religion, school, all the rest. And what I took it as is, okay, I guess there's something wrong with me. I guess I'm the one who's wrong. And so I need to push these feelings down and I need to show up in a different way. And that way for me that I chose was like drinking and women and becoming this sort of player who was very light and funny, but really causing harm, actually. And so it's interesting to me, I'm wondering, did you use ways of dealing with it initially? Were there sort of patterns that you had in place that were destructive but that were serving you at some time? Or was there always this awareness of, like, I want real belonging and I want to get to that.

Oh, my dude, Nathan. I don't even know where to begin with that. I'm literally have chills in my body. So. Okay, I'm going to start speaking fast because I'M activated. I mean everything you said really resonates. But let me kind of really drill down. So I think when we're young and we're children, we have an intuition to do these kinds of things to belong and we don't really know how. So we start kind of doing things that may make sense at the time, but may not necessarily be what we want to do. So for example, you're, you shared your situation. I'm curious to hear, you know, while I gave you that desire, did you actually do something about it? Like what did you, what did you end up doing?

You mean around like wanting to be. Show up as myself or. Oh yeah. I mean the thing that I just shut down, man, I went numb and I just refused. Like I actually. And I have several. There were several other moments where I can remember. Although it was subconscious, it wasn't like I actually said this to myself, but my. There was a body sense of like, I'm never going to feel this again. I'm not available for this. And so I just shut down. I locked down. I had times where like girlfriends would be. I literally remember a time and I feel so, so sad about this. That a girl, a girl who I just started seeing, we were, we were like 16 years old. There was this whole thing going on and something triggered me and I just switched off. Literally switched off where she was lying on the bed crying and she's like, how can you. You're just sitting there. And I was like, I can, I literally can't feel anything right now. I don't feel a single emotion related to what's going on. And it was just so brutal. And it ended up having years of issues based on that relationship. But, but it was that, that's what happened. I just shut down. I numbed out. And then I started to try to self medicate with again all these different like ways that kind of worked, but didn't really work.

Yeah. So what I'm hearing you say is that your response was a real kind of blow to the self esteem and your coping mechanism was shutting down, isolation, solitude, whatever. And I think that that's very common. It was so for me, my response when I experienced what I shared around like the gym thing was like I'm going to, I'm going to frickin one up these, these guys. So I organized a birthday party and invited my. This arch nemesis I had and we actually became best friends. So the way. So I used my superpower at that moment of bringing people together. And that was my constant. That was One of my coping. I'll touch on a few in a second. But one of my coping mechanisms was to create belonging, to create environments that I thought would be good for me. They necessarily, when they may. They may not fit my belonging Persona, which we'll discuss later. But at the time, intuitively, I felt like this is what I needed to in order to feel belongings, take a leadership role and create my spaces. And I did that from a very young age as it relates to coping. I mean, the lack of belonging definitely took me down many dark roads. I'm in. I'm a sex addict. I'm in. I'm in sex addiction recovery. And I've been for. I'm having. I'm sober for eight months. I've started in. In June of last year, 2024. So it started out with a love addiction, um, where I would emotionally manipulate women to, you know, have feelings for me, and then became a sex addiction where I would emotionally manipulate women to sleep with me. And then it became. And then, just as any addiction that's not managed, it became worse, worse and worse, moved into drugs, pornography, and so on. So, yeah, that my coping mechanism for not feeling belonging was going after the most intimate thing and intimate feeling, which is love and sex and intimacy, which was fraudulent in the way I. In what I. In what I experienced. And that was me trying to fill in the void.

Yeah, man. Well, thank you so much for. For your vulnerability and for sharing so openly and. And yeah, for doing the work on yourself, for really showing up and making these changes. And I kind of want to move this into that space of. Of tapping into your expertise because you shared a little bit before we went live around belonging and true belonging. What does that really mean? And I'm so, so curious to hear what is. What does belonging really mean? What are we getting wrong about belonging in our society that people should really know?

So a wonderful question that usually people should ask before they talk about anything. With some. I wish. My point is, I wish more people tried to define things before they responded to them. I think that for me. Well, not for me, the science tells us, and there's many different definitions, and it has evolved since the 90s when it became kind of first became a psychological construct. But today, the community generally agrees that belonging is a feeling and an experience that is a fundamental human need, a social construct that one feels and experiences when they are seen, valued, and accepted in the environment that they're in. So more specifically, it's basically being able to show up as yourself wherever you are, being Able to contribute yourself and then being feeling valued for your contributions.

Thank you. I appreciate the succinct definition. And I'd like to just get another definition from you so that we're kind of on the same page here, but the same around authenticity. You said a moment ago in the previous definition, belonging. A part of belonging is being able to show up as yourself wherever you are. And so then that made me think of authenticity. But I'm curious, I just want to see or just understand what, how, what is the definition of authenticity that you understand that you could bring to us today?

Yeah, I think authenticity is showing up as the current version of yourself in the present moment and what that means. For me, I love to think about the analogy for some listeners, they may be aware of, or I'll just quickly walk them through something called the Johari window. It's basically on the X axis is what. And basically the top quadrant of the four quadrant matrix is the things that you know about yourself and the things that other people know about yourself. There's some things you know about yourself other people don't know. There's some things that other people don't know about yourself. But, you know, and there's things that nobody knows, either you or other people. So for me, that top right quadrant is, well, it's referred to as the arena. So for me, it's about making that arena as big as possible so that everybody knows everything about you and you know everything about yourself. And there is no discrepancy as to who you are and how you're showing up between what you feel, what you think, where you are, and how. How you present like that. So I always. I try to live my life in the arena. I try to make sure my arena is bigger and better every day. I think life's goal is to, you know, show up like that. And, you know, being of Jewish faith, what we believe is that the body is a vehicle for the soul. And your job in this mo, in this life is to work on that soul, work on the neshama, which is the Hebrew word for it, so that when it leaves your body, it's in a better place. So to me, you showing up authentically today is going to be different than showing up authentically tomorrow, since we're constantly evolving.

Yeah, it reminds me of the. The Four Agreements, the book by Don Miguel Ruiz.

Right.

He says, do your best. As the fourth agreement, do your best. And I. And what I love about that, he's like, the best is going to look different on different days. And it's by the same token, what is authentic today? Like I was being my authentic self in a different state, in a different time, doing the best that I could with what I had. But now if I were to behave in that way, it would be completely inauthentic in this moment. At least that's what I'm hearing from you. It's like acknowledging that change.

And I would also add that being authentic, you know. So one thing that comes up to me when, when we just spoke is like, well, if I would have been authentic during my addiction, I would have been cheating, manipulating, using drugs, putting myself in dangerous situations. Okay. I'm not sure that actually if I dug down deep inside, that would have been authentic. I was doing my best, but my best was not, not kosher, you know. So I think a key part of authenticity is, you know, this is so like trite but like what the Stoics said of like know thyself and the only way to know thyself is, is to, you know. And this is where I really kind of have an ax to pick with. A lot of the self help kind of community is not just like going on a, you know, mushroom retreat in the forest or vipassana retreat, whatever. Like that's a part of it. It's actually a part of like not just reading and intellectualizing stuff, not just going deep, but actually, you know, doing things that can help you figure that out. And a lot of folks don't do that last part. And there's a lot of kind of gaslighting happening in the industry that you'll just figure it out, you know, by leaning in or going deep or running around naked or whatever. So yeah, I know that's a little bit controversial, but that's my opinion on, on, on where we are going wrong in so much of our self help industry.

Okay, well, I mean I'd love to hear more about that from you in terms of what, what does that mean for you? So what is the. So we're missing it in many ways. And as someone who does sometimes run around naked in forests having wonderful experiences with psychedelic substances, I, I can say.

That you find that by the way.

Yeah, yeah, it totally helps up to a point and it also doesn't up to. But there's, there's so many layers and so much context and so many, so much nuance. And I'm very curious to hear for you what is an. What is a way that is really effective, that really works, that helps us to move towards that what you've expressed belonging and authenticity.

Yes. So what I tried to do is I try to take over 100 academic papers and journals and books, 120 to be exact, and try to distill what do we know today based on the research that we can do, and then lay that out in a, in a palatable way for the average person. Because I'll give you a very tiny example. The research talks about communal relationships. Okay, what does that mean? Nobody like. And that's just like heady. It actually means interpersonal relationships where there is no tit for tat, no transactionality. You do it out of love, not out of kind of expecting something. So we got to distill what the research actually says in order to understand. But anyway, my point is I created a process. It's a very simple process. And it starts by, first of all, understanding where you are presently. And I like to use the analogy of a fuel tank. And the fuel tank basically takes. And this, unlike your car's fuel tank, this fuel tank takes a bunch of fuels, whether it's ethanol, canola oil, positive energy, whatever you want, it goes in there. And basically I came up with like 30 to 40 belonging activities. And we fill up that tank. You know, we have maybe for you, for example, Nathan, you know, maybe one way you find belonging I think is, you know, having an audience, sharing your message, having this one to many relationship. That's a beautiful thing that a lot of people find belonging that way. And that's one tactic. Another tactic is contemplative practices, you know, like being in nature, like stargazing. Absolutely. These are all ways we find belonging. So we throw it all in the bucket in the tank and then we see, okay, well how much do we have? So each one's got as a percentage, and we're like, okay, I'm at 70%. Okay, I have 30% left for more belonging. And I then think about, okay, well first we got to make sure, are these the right things for you? And what else should we put in there? So I then urge the readers to, to take a very simple quiz to find out what belonging Persona they are. And there are four belonging Personas. Eager belongings, Eager belongers represented as chimpanzees, anxious belongers represented as meerkats, reluctant belongers represented as snow leopards, and independent belongers represented as wolves. And it depends on what your attachment style is and what your need to belong is. Each of these are statistically valid independently constructs. And basically you then figure out what you are, and then we know what fuels work best for you. So then we go back to the tank, we try new things, and then again, there's like many things we can do. And basically it breaks down into six different categories of belonging. And yeah, just kind of go to town on those. And then there are some more things you can do. Like, you know, I call it belonging, intelligence, and there's a bunch of other stuff, but that's, that's the meat of it. That, that's the meat of it.

If you can. I mean, I obviously think people need to go read your book to really do a deep dive into this, but just around those types, they don't.

By the way, if they go on my unbelonging quest.com quiz, they can take the quiz. It'll tell them what they are and they'll tell them what to do.

Perfect. Amazing. Thank you for that. That's great. I'll definitely have that in the show notes as well. That's awesome. And if you're available to, I mean, without having to kind of unpack the whole thing in one go. But just these archetypes. What, like, is there a way you can describe them now in a summary that someone listening might even just get a little like, oh, that's resonating with me.

Yep. So first of all, the names are pretty descriptive. And I think I saw the smile on your face as I started mentioning them. It's kind of like I use words that would. Animals that we'd understand. So chimpanzees, for example, I think about them, they're hanging out with their crew. They got a big family. Their cousins, their uncles are all in the trees. They're, they're playing, maybe they're squabbling, they're helping each other out. They're eating each other's lice. You know, they're just hanging out as family and that, and that's, and that's because they have a high need to belong and they have a secured attachment. So basically they're kind of like good, good in their own skin, but they want to be social. Remember, belonging is a social construct. They want to be social. And it can. By the way, belonging is a social construct, but we can have parasocial ways of getting it. So reading novels, being in nature, those are all not necessarily involving people, but they help us find belonging anyway. So they like people, they want to be around people. They have a high need to belong and a secure attached style. Meerkats on, on the other side are also high belongers. They want to belong really badly, but they're really anxious they're like, oh, is somebody here to get me? They look up. Nope. Okay. Go back to the tunnels. Hang out with my buddies. Go back up, you know, so they're kind of anxious about it, and they're. And they show up a little bit kind of anxious. Any validation in their relationships? Like, no. Nathan, I really like you. This interview is going really well. Like, they got, you know, like, you know, they're the kind of people are like, hey, why don't you text me back? I saw you.

Thanks.

Yeah, yeah. Ye. Like, why are you leaving me on red? I saw you read my message. Like, why haven't you responded? Like, you know, it's like, it's like me going to my wife every five minutes, like, hey, like, looking for a reaction when I send her an Instagram video. I'm like, are you laughing yet? So that. Those are meerkats. I am a meerkat. Snow leopards are solitary animals. They only meet their mates to. To. To procreate, and then they kind of go do their own thing. So they're, you know, reluctant belongers. They really have a. They have an. A low need to belong and an insecure attachment style. So they might just want to have a spouse, and they might just want to, like, jump on Reddit or, like, play video games or just read novels or whatever. And then there are the independent belongers and wolves. And I, like, I chose wolves because regardless of what the science tells us, I think it's invalidated it. But basically, we think of the wolf pack, which is a bunch of wolves hanging out, and then we think about the lone wolf, who's just kind of on their own doing their own thing. And wolves are just kind of, like, can do both because they have a secure attachment style, but a lower need to belong. So they can kind of just like, either hang out on their own in solitude or kind of go hang out with people.

Got you. Wow. Thank you. That's a beautiful summary. And it's. I'm definitely excited. If anyone's listening and you do this quiz, please let me know. Like, send me a message somewhere. I'd love to hear what.

What.

What comes out of it for you. It's super rad. I'd love to hear, like, one of my favorite things is because obviously you've been working with this for some time, and I'm sure that you have experiences of witnessing the transformation that unfolds when someone clear on this belonging archetype, when they start to get clear on their own authenticity and start to express that more with honoring privacy, etc. But is there any story you could share, a story of transformation of, of someone, you know, who's been through this process or maybe yourself as well. But just any story of that feeling of, oh my gosh, here's my archetype, here's how I can take action on that. And then it's what happens because of that.

Absolutely. So I got a message from my friend Jason, I think it was the week before last, and he said, hey, I finally read your book and I didn't realize just how much my personality needed small group, group settings. He just moved to la. I think I forget where he was. He may have been in New York, but he moved to LA and he was just not finding his people, not doing his thing. He was into the marriage, a happy marriage. He's got a great business partnership, whatever, whatever. But he just realized that he doesn't have a crew that he can kind of hang with and not. Or like, or even, you know, there's different community types and I talk about in the book, communities of interest, communities of, of, of of passion, community. There's a bunch of different community types, but he doesn't have any of that and he realized how much he needs it. So I know you had a podcast late last year around communities and how to. Some tips out of how to find them. I agree with many of the things you said and I have my own, some of my own suggestions in the, in the book. I mean, just generally I, I like to think about community selection, by the way, in terms of like a high risk, a risk slash reward calculation. You know, by paying $10,000 to go to Burning man, you might not necessarily feel belonging. You know, that's. So that's a high, that's a high risk, high reward type of activity. Going to a meetup is like a low risk, low reward because who the hell knows who's going to be there? So anyway, I kind of break it down like that. And yeah, so he just joined a bunch of communities that are. And he's kind of going through the motion of figuring out how to strengthen his belonging from his, his chimpanzee archetype.

That's all right. I love that it's like it's. And I think because I'm still working this out myself and I, I think that's part of my own journey is how to support myself and how to support others in finding more connection. I mean, I remember reading an article and I've had a few guests on who talk about this, this, this epidemic of Isolation and that it's actually, we. We often think of it, or I. I don't really hear it spoken about in general society as such a serious thing where it's like, yeah, people are kind of more lonely than they used to be. But actually, the. Not the. The real physiological impact of that on people who are chronically isolated is. Is serious, is it leads to chronic illness. Like, it really is a very serious thing. And so I know that for myself, and I also know how many of us are plugged into these machines all day long. And I. And it's like, how do we find authentic connection within that context, but then also within the world around us? And so, yeah, just hearing the clarity that you bring to this conversation is really. It's really calming, actually. It's a sense of like, oh, this is this. There's, like, this makes sense. There's ways to deal with this. And we can look at it very practically. Yeah.

And I'll add, you know, I think. I think you're. Thank you so much for the compliment. I. I think that so many people mean well, you know, and like, I'll give you an example. Here in the United States, the surgeon general who just left basically talked about this epidemic of loneliness and solitude. And yes, it is awful, especially for men who are becoming incels and not getting married and living with their parents and getting angry and tribing up as opposed to using communities. I kind of think about tribes is not necessarily a good thing. They're more unshared, kind of like hatred and communities around shared love. And I think that distinction, I mean, the old way of a tribe of like, yeah, I got your back was much different than, like, today's tribe. Like, tribes needed to kind of hate on one another in order to be. To live back in the day. And today, I don't think that's a good. A good use of the word. But anyway, my point is that if you read his, like, outgoing report, he's like, okay, the solution is relationships, service, community. Okay, what the hell am I gonna do with that? You know? Okay, got it, dude. So let me go. What am I supposed to, like, walk down the street and shake people's hands until somebody, like, wants to hang out? It's. It. What am I? Like, it's just so it's. It's. It comes off as disingenuous when people speak in that way, because nobody actually says, here you go. Here's a palatable process to get it done. And I'm just. That's just my style. Like, I'm Just very like, you know, I ran a business. Like, this is what we did. So I'm applying the same thing, you know, kind of, kind of approach. But yeah, I just find that that general advice has not really been as detailed as it should be.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And what's coming up for me now is just wondering how do. Just so that people can see themselves maybe in the current situation of not having that sense of belonging or authenticity, or not being clear how they need to belong. What are some of the ways that you've noticed people showing up when they haven't yet got clear on these areas, when they are still in that state of kind of skimming along the surface and wanting to go deeper but not sure how, if that's clear. Yeah.

So there's a reason why we refer to belonging as a sense of belonging. It's not just, you know, a feeling. Like a sense is something that is intuitive, it's energetic. It's like we just feel it. And I think that a lot of people who don't feel like they belong just know it. And I mean, and I have the gift of like, observing it in other people. It's just that feeling when, like, I sit with someone and they're not looking me in the eye, or they're kind of like finding a way to check the watch on it, you know, very unassumingly, or like they're looking behind them at the mixer, or they're just like, you know, just like, not asking curious questions that show they're listening. They're not acknowledging that they don't understand a word or phrase that I used. And asking for clarification, there's a million. And they're just a body language. The eyes. There's a million things you can see when people. When you're tuned into it. And I'm not like some New Agey, you know, freaking shaman. Like, this is, like, this is just like, I think something I. I sense and I think many people sense if they just kind of take a moment to observe it and get out of their own experience. So anyway, I have, I. I have seen that. I've seen that show up on people so many times. And the. So your, your question was around. I went on a tangent. Can you remind me the question, please?

Sure. So just some of the ways that people show up when they're. So that they can kind of see themselves in the way people show up when they're not showing up, when they aren't experiencing belonging.

Right. So I think if you Tune into that and you see what other people do. It's what I just shared, all the things I shared. It's a little easier to spot it in yourself. And, and then you have to be like, okay, well so then belonging intelligence is basically like my version of emotional intelligence. And I just kind of, it's a stupid name, but I try to like come up with a few skill. And basically there are five skills for belonging and it's about kind of sharpening those. And they are basically self actualization, not just self awareness. Self actualization is realizing what you should be doing. So there is some work that needs to be done. Like my purpose in life is to help people find a sense of belonging. Your purpose in life is to communicate to people to be free. Whether they are or they aren't, we will discuss. But that's what you're, you're about. That's your purpose in life, I assume, you know, so self actualization is the first thing. You don't have to be, you don't have to cure cancer. It can just be like provide for, create a loving home, it doesn't matter. But people have to have some self actualization. Then you got to have some level of risk, risk taking. Because if you just sit in your room all day, you're not going to be able to really dive. And by the way, risk taking doesn't just mean I call it risk management. It's not just means like oh, let me go try this new thing. It's also leaving something. It's also trying a new subreddit. It's leaving that like chat that always pissed you off. It's those kinds of things. It's calling as much as it is adding and editing. Then that's. And then there is rejection. Navigation. Basically like being okay with rejecting other people and also being rejected as just a signal. And then there is social cultivation. And that's basically like managing your, your social circles, your relationships. And then I forgot the last one. I gotta look at my book. That's why I have it handy. And the last one is drum roll. This is the fun of being live, right? We're doing, we're doing a meditation gong. I love it. I love it. There it is. I found it. I found it. Okay, so it is. Yes, Interest, exploration. So it's just kind of like, you know, so many people. I dude, you go to people. One of my favorite questions to ask you, I was like, what are your, what are your interests? You know, and so many people don't know how to answer that question. I watch this podcast that's very controversial called Kill Tony and it's a comedy show. And after two hours he basically, basically for two hours, he interviews like 12 random people after they do some comedy. But he's generally an asshole of them, and that's part of the shtick. But he asks everybody, like, what's something interesting about you? Or what do you do for fun? He always asks that. And so many people have the worst answers, like comedy, drink, smoke, movies, like it. So interest exploration is a big piece of this because interest exploration unlocks our creativity, which unlocks our love, which unlocks our community, which unlocks so many things. And just people just don't have it, you know? So anyway, so I. I also talk about a framework for finding interests. Anyway, those are the five things you need in order to sharpen your belonging skills. I hope I answered your question.

Yeah, that's beautiful. That's beautiful. I so appreciate that. Interest exploration, I love that. And it's one of the things that I actually wrestle with at times. And this is like that leftover, that part of the thing I've still been navigating. Although it is getting, it's getting easier and easier every round on the merry go round. But this idea of prioritizing, filling my own cup because the story comes like, no, you just need to keep pushing, need to keep like getting out there, like pushing stuff, doing more work, sit at your computer, like, do all the work and then you can rest. But actually, as I'm learning more about somatic practices, I'm doing a somatic certification right now, which is just so beautiful. And I'm just getting so much out of it, like so much out of it. It's called body based breakthrough. It's so good. And what I'm learning is it's the other way around. Like, one of the questions he asks in this training is like, how good can you take it? Like, how much joy, how much pleasure can you experience in this moment? Not how hard can you push or how deep can you stretch or how far can you break out of your comfort zone, but how good can this be? And another thing he says is the job is joy. And I just like, those kind of things are such medicine for me because they inspire me to prioritize my interest, to go surfing, to go swimming in the ocean, to do the things that just like that aren't about anyone else. It's like I just sitting out there in the water with the waves being like, thank God for this moment. Thank God that I am here now.

So I'll put you on that. I actually think that it is about other people. It's just not directly about other people.

Right.

You know, your relationship with God is not necessarily hanging out with your boy, but it is still a relationship. Right. Like you just mentioned my relation. I have. I love fish. I have fish. I have two fish tanks. They're big. It's. It's wild. You know, I got these corals and it's crazy. And I have a relationship with those fish. You know, if a crab in my tank dies, I am a sad. Like, you know, I, I can't, I can't. Don't get me started. Like, I can't even like, kill copepods, which are tiny little microscopic animals. So my point is that, like, I even feel bad at killing algae. So my point is that like, I have a. We can have relationships with a bunch of stuff and, and the same thing, by the way, with somatic experience. Right. So let's just say you're a somatic train. You're in the moment, you're enjoying it, all that good, great stuff. But then you can create retreats for it where you have a one to many relationships with the people that you serve and whose lives are changing. Then you can go ahead to others. You have a relationship with the classmates, you know, you're in a part of class or with the teacher. You then go hang out with other teachers and develop that relationship. So even interests that seem solitary are jumping off points for community, which is a social, you know, way of existing.

Oh, yeah. Beautiful. Thank you for that reflection. And I truly, I do feel that absolutely, like going for a good surf, even if it's by myself, which it generally is, is like that. I feel so much more ready to connect with the world after that. Yeah, it's just so powerful. Yeah, definitely.

Great point.

Yeah.

You should do a somatic retreat in my retreat center.

Oh, dude, anytime. Awesome. Yes, that's a. Yes.

I've done somatic. I did somatic therapy. And like, like, I, you know, usually I'm like, I roll my eyes when people are like, you know, hug yourself or whatever, like, tapping. And I'm like, this is silly. But this guy was really good. And I was. I. Because I had body. I have body dysmorphia. And he just really helped me address those issues.

Amazing. Wow, I'm so glad to hear that. Yeah, I've also been. It's one of those terms that historically I found a bit cringy of like, everyone's like, I'm a somatic this, I'm a somatic that. And I'm like, what are they really even talking about? And now, now working with someone who is he? Actually, I attended a free workshop on another community I was a part of online. And I was like, wow, that was amazing. And then I said, dude, I got to get you on my podcast. And we, after that podcast episode, I said to him at the end of that, I was like, I am going to do your somatic training. I don't know how, I don't know when, but I'm doing it. And lo and behold, I think eight months, six months, eight months later, I started the training with him. And it's been truly revolutionary. And I'm using it with my clients already and they are just getting such great results. It's so effective. So yeah, man, it's great.

Which season was this?

That would have been season three, I believe. Yeah, I think it would definitely have been last year. I'm pretty sure there's a lot of episodes. I'm losing track of it, but I think it was last year. It was with. His name's Matthew T. Cook. And yeah, body based breakthrough. Very, very cool guy. Just like walking his talk as well, which is so important and just really grateful for that. But anyway, let's get back to you, man. And I, I really have kind of filled my cup with this conversation. I feel so grateful for everything you've shared and I think I was. One of the questions I generally ask is like, what's one little step people can take? But I think honestly, and I want to say this, and then if you've got something else, you're welcome. But that quiz that you mentioned sounds like the next step. Like if I were to say anything, just go and do this quiz, get clear on your archetype and start from there. But is there any other step that you would say as a next step to. To finding belonging, to getting clear on that for themselves that you to suggest?

I think that's a pretty good one, to be honest. I think another one is just kind of. And again, like an overused word. But this just a belonging mindset which I think of like, okay, do I belong here? Do I not belong here? Do they belong here? Do they not belong here? And just having that, like, does this fill my tank or does it not? And I think just thinking about that and not just going through the motions, I'll give you a perfect example. A lot of guys, you know, I'll say my guys specifically have like a group checks with like their, their homies. From like 20 years ago where they used to like send pictures around or memes and, or like crude comments and, or, but and or like they talk about sports and it's just toxic. For example, for me it was, I should say and you know, maybe like, why am I still a part of this? Or like why do I still have notifications on this? Or like why have I not archived that, that WhatsApp group? I don't care about, like, why haven't I left it or whatever. And I'm not like the kind of guy who's like, oh, just leave everything. Like, I'm not talking about like zero cost, zero based budgeting where you just erase the budget and start anew. Although that might be interesting. Some people advocate for that. People do that their calendar every year. Erase all the recurring meetings. But I'm just not saying that. I'm saying just think about belonging and think does this, does this. And I have a very like simple kind of like 5C test for belonging. And I found, if you don't mind, I can share that. And it's actually a really easy way to think about whether something actually gives you belonging or not. And again, I love it. I love it. No, dude, this is. Can you do something else, please?

Hang on, hang on. What do we got? Here we go.

What do we got? What do we got? Make it belong. That's gotta be belonging, man. I don't know. I'm not gonna be able to find it anyway. Oh, no, no, that, that gives me pressure. That's terrible. I'm sweating.

We'll take it down. There you go.

I will keep looking at my, My point is there's five Cs and it's like one of them is like, does this give me connection? Does it. Do I have commitment to it? Do I want to share it with other people? Like, and if you don't want to share what you do with other people, it's generally something that doesn't give you belonging.

Beautiful. Yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah, man. Okay, cool. Well, thank you. And, and again, the next question is. And I know you've got your book, but is there anything that's like your most current project, your most current, like landing page, the thing you want to offer people, Is there anything that you would just. If someone takes the action after this, that other than the quiz, obviously and what we've just shared, but somewhere you want people to find you after this? Basically, yes.

So I started my new company. It's called Assemble Hospitality Group. We're basically, we're Building a new hospitality concept for urban retreat centers. This is not the retreat center that comes to mind where it's like, you know, well, I mean, maybe we'll do ayahuasca, but it's really like for corporate retreats, corporate off sites, team meetings, and it's in urban areas, so it's very small, 11 bedrooms, exclusive views. And yeah, my goal Is to have 10 of them by the end of the century or the century, the decade. And I would suck if I'd be the worst, slowest entrepreneur. But yeah, so the goal Is to have 10 of them in the next five years. And our first one is opening in Boise, Idaho, where I live, in the end of this year. So, yeah, assemble hospitality group. If there are any kind of folks out there who are kind of organizers or retreat folks or. We'd love to wait. We. We are thinking about creative ways of partnering with retreat organizers, of making sure they don't have to put a lot of money down and things like that in order to help them create their space without too much of a burden.

Beautiful. Well, thank you for sharing that and I certainly will put it all in the show notes. And as always, the. The question I love to ask guests. And you can take this anywhere. That feels true for you when you hear we are already free. What comes up for you?

Okay, so I prepared for this. Wait, I got my. I got my five Cs. I think. I think I have it. It's my favorite thing and I never talk about it ever. Okay, so the five Cs for evaluating your belonging, each belonging fuel are certainty. Do you feel like this strategy serves you and that's just like intuitively charged? Does participating in this activity make you feel energized, connected? Is it possible for you to show up genuinely when participating, celebrated? Do you take pride in participating it? In other words, do you advertise it and then championed? Would you recommend it to other people? So that's how I think about, like a belonging fuel. And if you answer no to any of those questions, the belonging fuel is not for you. You should try something else.

Great, I love that. Thank you. And if. Even if one. If like you've got four that are yes, but one is a no, is that still like not a great fuel or.

I mean, I don't know. I feel like that's kind of a decision for the. For the person. I mean. Got you, you know, maybe. Yeah, I would say probably. I would. I would think. No, I don't think it's for you.

Then go. Go for all Five. Yeah, that. That keeps it simple. Cool, thank you. So once again, when you hear we are already free, what comes up for you?

Okay, so I'm going to take a philosophical. So by the way, I've seen your podcast name so many times, I constantly think about what the. Does he. Is he saying? So I've thought about it a lot and I'll take kind of like a. So I think the answer. So let me start with the answer. I think yes, we are already. We are already free. I agree with the statement. And the reason I agree with the statement is because whether you believe in determinism, that things are pre decided, or whether you believe in free will, where you can decide things yourself, or whether you believe in a mix of those things, two things, then the answer is yes. Because if it's deterministic and it's given us, given to us by a higher power or the universe, then you're free because you know, you don't have to worry. And if you have free will, then you are free because it's you. Free to fuck up. So I think the answer is yes. And that's my meaning of we are already free.

I feel like you had more there. That was like the intro. Was there another layer to that or is that the whole thing? Just checking. There doesn't need to be.

That's the whole thing. I mean, I just. I mean, my wife and I have conversations a lot about determinism versus free will, and I kind of think that's a mix of both. But yeah, I just. I mean, no, that's. That's all I got. Like, we are free because whether you like it, whether you believe in something that was preconceived, or whether you believe in your ability to control everything, still free, freedom. Just two different ways of looking at it.

Cool. Well, thank you. Thanks, Dan. Thanks for coming on, for being on the podcast and for diving deep into your own journey to be able to bring us this knowledge, this clarity around these definitions. And yeah, I just appreciate you, bro. Any last thoughts before I throw you out of here? Otherwise, thank you.

I'm really grateful to you for your interest in the topic and I'm grateful for your audience to listen, for listening to it.

Cool, man. Thanks again. Yeah. And I'll see you in the green room in a moment. And yeah, grateful to have you here. Thank you.

Thank you, Nathan.

All right. What a beautiful episode. That was so awesome. I feel like I really. The value I'm taking away from this part of it is this how important it is to Define the things that I'm talking about for clarity so that I know what I'm talking about. And this idea of belonging, getting clear on that which we did in this episode is really important and it feels so wonderful. So thank you for being here. Thank you for joining us on this wonderful live experience. If you've been a long time listener, I am so curious to hear as this is season four and it's the first season where I've done this as a live streamed episode that you then hear. You know, just the audio version. But how does it resonate with you? Does it sit well? Do you. Did you prefer the old way? I'm really curious to hear, but really just want to say a huge thanks again to Dan. Please do check out his links in the show notes. What a phenomenal offering. I think this idea of belonging is so intrinsically tied with authenticity and with liberation, with freedom, with the things that we talk about on this podcast all the freaking time. And as always we will have a lot more coming up. So make sure that you're following, you subscribed, etc. And yeah, I just appreciate you being here. You can also catch these live on YouTube. If you want to watch the episode and ask questions and be a bit more engaged, you can just go to the show notes, check the link there. As always. So for now I just want to say thank you. And the offering I'm currently most excited, excited about myself is that my 21 day dopamine detox challenge is a free challenge that you can sign up for at alreadyfree Me slash reset. The link is in the show notes but it's a way for those of us who have struggled at times with overuse of social media or streaming or binging and it's, it's really for you if you find yourself thinking I'm just gonna check something and then like an hour, two hours go by and you're just completely zoned out and you don't what just happened and nothing in your life has moved forward and if that happens a few times in the day, suddenly realizing that your life is actually disappearing down a hole of doom scrolling and you came here for more than that. I know that you did. So please do check out the challenge. It's free sign up. You'll have a great time. Some people have had beautiful results with that. But yeah, one more time thanks to Dan, thanks to you for being here and I will see you again next week. And as always, please remember we are already free.