Okay, so you're saying that because you read the Bible for 20 years and meditate upon it, no one has done that, maybe done that, but I certainly, I am among the top 1% who.

Spend that much of meditation and reading scriptures.

You can assume that one.

So that you are saying I, I just came up with some opinion and then I try to find it on the scriptures.

It's not like that.

Okay, I have a question.

Does your arm hurt?

No.

No, Because I mean, you're patting yourself on the back so much.

I, I was afraid your arm might hurt.

You know, I was just, I mean, leaning on the wall.

Did you, did you know that pride is a sin?

It's actually like the number one sin.

That's okay.

I know, I know all that.

Shaming tactics.

It's not a shaming tactic.

You just praise yourself.

Yeah.

Paul says you' top.

You're in the top percent of all Christians in the world.

I should be blessed to be in your presence.

It's not.

You should be ashamed.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

This is Apologetics Live to answer your questions.

Your host from Striving for Eternity Ministries, Andrew Rapaport.

Foreign.

We are live Apologetics Live here to answer your most challenging questions that you have about God and the Bible or if you want to claim that you're the top 1% of all Christians in the entire world.

Yeah, I missed that guy.

He was kind of interesting.

Said he never sinned, but pride is a sin.

He just doesn't see that he's got the bride.

Let me bring in Drew, my co host here.

Drew, welcome.

That was a, a Weir show.

I remember listening to that, just going, what is this guy talking about?

Yeah, well, it was interesting because his, he, I guess wrote a book or something, I forget long blog or something where he, he criticized dispensationalism, it's of the devil, yada, yada, yada.

And, but he had never sinned.

And, and he was, he was a perfect Christian.

I remember he claimed you could live basically in sexual immorality, but as long as you're in, in Christ, you're not sinning.

Well, and the reason I asked him that was very specific because what he was actually believing is, is 1st century Gnosticism that anything in the spirit is good, anything of physical is bad.

So like, so he was claiming like, oh, I don't, I don't sin.

Right.

Because he doesn't do it in.

He, he, he doesn't do it in the spirit.

And that's why I asked him about the prostitution because that was something that the Gnostics believed they could sleep with a prostitute and it wouldn't affect them.

Right.

And so that's why I had asked them that question in that episode, because I was like, you know, he didn't even pick up because he probably never read Gnostics or anything on Gnosticism and didn't even realize what I was.

I was doing.

But, yeah, that was.

So we get all kinds here.

We.

We might get.

We might get Drew.

I mean, let's see.

But you invited someone on the show you want to.

Before we get.

So our topic tonight, we should mention.

The topic tonight is going to be the question of can you lose your salvation?

And this is one.

Eternal security or falling away.

These are the things they're called.

Some people will say, once saved, always saved.

We'll get into all those differences, the different scripture verses people use to.

To make each side of the case, and the plan to go through and show you what the Bible actually says.

Go through some of the verses, give an argument, and there may be those who disagree and think different than Drew and I.

Well, first off, you.

You have the right to be wrong.

But other than that, I mean, yeah, you're wrong all the time, you know, so we just only call it out, really, when you're not here.

Yeah.

But if.

If you disagree, we want to encourage you, or if you have other questions about God in the Bible, go Apologetics live dot com.

Scroll down to the streamyard icon there, the duck.

Click on that.

Allow your browser to use your mic and at least your mic, if not the mic and camera, and join us and ask any questions we do ask that you might be willing to do that rather than putting the questions in chat, which we like it when it's in chat.

And so let me give a shout out to a friend of mine out here, Parker Brown, he says, quote, if we could lose our salvation, we would unquote Vodi Bakam.

And so Parker Brown, I'll encourage you guys to go check him out.

He is.

Got a podcast.

Drew, you are going to love this.

You know, when I explain his podcast, you know that, like, I am dying to.

To watch every episode of his podcast.

It's watch well podcast, where he.

He discusses movies.

Oh, yeah, that's perfect for you.

Yeah.

Actually, I, I went to.

I met him at Fight Left Feast.

He was setting up to do interviews, comes up and just says, hey, you want to do an interview?

And I'm like.

And the guy that's working with him is like, yeah, we do Interview.

You know we talk about movies and I'm like yeah, I probably have nothing to talk about.

But we ended up talking about Matt Walsh's what was a new film at that time.

Am I racist now that I did watch.

Yeah, I haven't seen that one yet.

I haven't have not seen that one yet.

But yeah, yeah, Andrew, Andrew is not up on pop culture either in this decade or the many decades prior to this decade.

Dude, I watched every movie that came out in the first century.

Just saying.

But I do want to encourage, you know Parker's a good guy.

Go check out Washwell podcast and, and see this stuff he's putting out.

Especially if you're actually into to movies.

So.

Yeah you do.

I love them.

So why don't you describe that you invited someone from Tick Tock to come on and let's, let's, let's just see.

Let's see from the audience actually before you even describe it, poll to the audience.

Drew invited someone on to have a discussion.

Do you think he will show up or not?

Past record kind of says what we might think in this audience but so we'll let the audience go.

Why don't you now explain because there's a delay.

You explain what the topic was and, and how you invited him on.

Yeah, so, so the Gentleman's name is Dr.

Robert Pothoff and he's known as the Big Red Preacher.

And so he was doing what looked like to be a sermon or teaching from his home, had a pulpit set up but the teaching was on killing Calvinism.

So he is very staunch anti Calvinist.

And well I just invited him on.

I went to his page, I went to his messages.

I invited him and said hey, would love for you to come on Apologetics Live Thursday night at 8 o' clock to defend some of your claims against Calvinism.

I know he read the message.

He never responded.

I was replying.

Oh no, no, he responded.

He responded with muting me.

Yeah.

So I was, I was respond.

I was responding to some of the things he was saying in his mess.

Things like that's a straw man or read the next verse because it disproves what you said or Calvinists don't believe that.

And I got muted.

Then I went over to the matter of theology Tick Tock page and went back on and got muted on that one as well.

So we'll see, we'll see if he comes on.

Well Kathy being a longtime listener says no.

But Martin, Martin might be a newer listener.

I haven't seen him comment too Much.

But he's going, maybe, we'll see.

I mean, apparently Martin, he's an optimist.

I like him already.

We will see.

Because after, after he did his little teaching, he did a live where he invited people to come on.

And I, I didn't go on only because I knew what was going to happen.

Kind of the structure is that he was going to basically talk over anyone who disagreed with them, shout them down and then kick them out.

Lots of ad hominem attacks.

So I invited him on because, well, we don't play that game here.

We will let you give your position as we have done.

And we've.

I mean, basically people have taken over the whole show because we've been trying to get to whatever their point was and try to let them make it.

So we let people talk here, but there's things we don't put up with.

We are not going to put up with ad hominems.

We're going to call it out.

We're not going to put up with bad behavior.

We're going to kick you out if you act foul or anything like that.

So we'll see.

We'll see.

I don't know.

We'll see.

That is one of the things we tried to do here.

If you're new to this program, we actually do let those who disagree with us voice their opinion.

I mean, we had godless grandma and we let her make her case.

She did get upset when she brought up Covid vaccines and we started having answers for it.

And she was like, hey, I wasn't prepared to talk about that.

And we're like, you brought it up.

I wasn't prepared either, but I could.

Right?

And so we give people the chance.

There was the guy who, who came in and I know he probably is still trolling us, but he, Anthony, someone I knew years ago, and he wanted to argue for an affirming Christianity that they'd be affirming of homosexual lifestyle.

And the, the thing is, he, he says we talked over him.

We were so mean.

We actually ran the numbers and let him speak 75% of the time.

So one person spoke 75% of the time over Drew and I for the first hour.

We told him we'd give him the first hour and we just asked questions.

Was most of what we were doing in that.

That part of just trying to get clarification.

And he didn't like that.

He didn't, he didn't like having definitions.

And I mean, you can run down the list.

You.

We had the Hebrew Israelite on that took the whole show.

And.

And by the end, we were going, okay, what's your point?

Because he still hadn't made it.

And then we had Benzion on for several episodes.

Benzion was the.

The orthodox Jewish rabbi who came in.

Yep.

Yeah.

So, I mean, we let people talk.

We let you make your case.

Yeah.

So if the big red preachers out there come on in, we're not going to play the.

The game where we'll only have the conversation if we can control the mic.

Right.

We'll let you talk.

Because truthfully, what I often find is with a lot of the folks and, and this.

So apologetics live.

What we try to do is not just do, apologize, teach apologetics.

So in the realm of teaching apologetics, let me give you guys some.

Some pointers.

And as this, you can always let the person you're speaking to give enough rope to hang themselves.

Yeah.

If.

If you let them talk a lot of times, and you'll see I do this a lot is I just let them talk and I'll just, I'll interrupt with clarifying questions or definitional questions, and you see them get stumped.

Like, if you think back to Anthony with the homosexuality, he got stumped when we asked him about lusting because he wanted to just say, well, homosexuality is okay.

But he realized lusting after someone was a sin.

If you lust outside of marriage.

And he was arguing, you can have a relationship with someone of the same sex but not be married and not consummate it.

But when he, when we broke down, what, what all adultery is, it starts with lust.

And now all of a sudden he had a big problem because he admitted lusting is a sin.

But he wants to say somehow that's different than the homosexual relationships that he's, you know, living with a guy and having fantasies of.

He's just not acting on it.

And it was like, well, that's lusting.

Right.

So you get to the core definitions of things and.

And then let them try to explain and their arguments unravel quickly.

Yeah, yeah.

Which is funny because there was one point where he explained.

Actually, he.

He said, this is what we believe.

And he explained it and he said, that's.

Now, that's not Calvinism.

And I go, that sounds an awful lot like Calvinism.

That.

Because I believe what you just said.

That's funny.

Well, let's get into a question.

This kind of is along the lines with Calvinism.

It is one of the five points.

The fifth point of Calvinism is perseverance of the Saints.

Now, this Is I've heard a lot of different words used for this idea.

Perseverance of the saints, eternal security, once saved, always saved.

Now the last one is used more as a derogatory.

I personally like the term eternal security.

Yeah.

And I plan to explain why.

But the issue, the question is when someone gets saved and the word saved or salvation needs some definition because which by the way folks, is always good to do is give definitions for things.

And J3 16 Ministries says if, if saved, always saved.

I like that.

That's actually a good way of wording it.

So when we say saved, salvation in the scriptures has three different aspects.

To has a past tense thing if you're a believer to when you were regenerated.

And that's what most people refer to about being saved.

It's that moment you went from being an enemy of God to a child of God.

That time that God gives you, takes a stony heart and gives you a new heart.

He regenerates you.

If you get my book what do we Believe?

In the chapter on salvation, I give you a list of things that happen simultaneously.

You go from adopted into God's family, you're baptized with the Holy Spirit different than the filling of the Holy Spirit.

You are have a heart of flesh, you're regenerated, you're you believe.

I mean all these things are simultaneous acts.

And so what you see is that is what people call salvation.

And when they say being saved, that's what most people think of.

It's that regeneration salvation present would be what we call sanctification.

And that word is also used as salvation.

And this is where people get confused, especially cults and, and say that you can be saved by works because they confuse sanctification and regeneration.

So sanctification is that process after you're regenerated until the moment you die, where you're doing works that make you more in the image of Christ, but it's God who does that work through you.

And so there are works in sanctification, but those works do not regenerate you.

Okay.

And then lastly salvation future is glorification.

When we are done with this body of sin, that we are like Christ in that way and we will have a.

A body that is well will, will be with Christ will eventually have a body that is a glorified body.

So salvation is used for those three time frames.

And I explained that in my book what do we Believe?

And let me just a shout out to Kathy Deming.

She says yes, very, very helpful book.

So if you do want to get a copy of it.

Just go to strivingforattorney.org and pick that up there.

You can pick up what do we believe?

And hopefully it'll be very helpful.

So what we see is this idea of perseverance of the saints is the idea that if, and this is why I liked it, what J316 Ministry said if saved, always saved.

Perseverance as saints is the idea that if you are saved you will remain that way.

I like the term eternal security because it's the idea that your what your regeneration is secure for eternity.

And the reason it's secure is because you are given a down payment for that security in the personal holy spirit indwelling you.

That's how the scriptures describe it.

I'm not a big fan of once saved, always saved because it's used as a derogatory term to say and usually how it's used is to say that people who believe you can't lose your salvation think that as long as you pray a prayer you, you could do anything and you don't lose that salvation.

That's how they, they end up using it.

And it's not a, it's just not helpful because that's not, that's not the position we'd hold.

So they use it as their excuse for antinomianism.

So why don't you explain the term.

Yes, antinomianism just means you can live in.

So the word means anti law.

So it just that because you think you're saved, you can therefore live in sin.

Correct.

And, and this is the other side of it.

The argument is, you know, referred to as losing your salvation or more commonly falling away.

Now they, many that hold to that view will not use the term apostate.

Some might.

So losing your salvation is the idea that God, God regenerated you.

It is a misnomer for people to say that folks that hold to the view that you can lose your salvation, that they believe you're saved by works and you lose it by works.

That is not what most believe though there are some religions that are man made religions where they do believe you're saved by works and therefore yes you can.

If you're, if you came into the relationship by works, you can lose that relationship by works.

So that at least would be consistent.

We're going to get into the definition of salvation like how to, to be more precise with it because we have to understand the nature of regeneration to understand this topic.

But most would say that it's a falling away that you somehow had you got regenerated by God.

But you, some will even word it this way, you're saved by faith, but you maintain it by works.

I think that's confusing.

Of the regeneration and sanctification.

Yes, because the works are sanctification, but they don't save you.

And so what people often do is to say that what they're trying to answer for is people and folks.

Those of you listening watching, you probably know someone in your church who profess to know Christ.

They grew up in the church, or they claim to get saved and then they walk away.

They deny Christ.

They say, he's not God, he doesn't.

God doesn't exist.

And this is what we'd refer to as apostasy.

And there are some passages of scripture that seem to teach this apostasy.

We're going to look at some of those.

And so the idea is that you somehow got regenerated, but because of some sin in your life, you continue to sin to a point where God gives up on you.

So they would say, and if you were to ask, well, who's stronger than God?

Like, if God saved you, how do you lose that?

Did God abandon you?

Did he reject you?

And they'll say, no.

They.

They will say, it's us who in our sin, by continuing in sin, have been given over to our sin and in doing so lost our salvation.

So it's us who lost it.

We can't blame it on God.

I'm trying to say that so we're really clear, because I don't want us to give straw man arguments against this view that you can lose your salvation, that some might do.

We want to be clear with what they believe.

So what, Drew, what are, what's your views as far as the ideas that people have with the ability to lose your salvation?

Yeah, I mean, I usually hear people talking about using verses such as, your name will be blotted out of the Lamb's book of life.

So because scripture says that you can therefore lose your salvation.

Or they'll use those last few verses that Erasmus added to the book of Revelation where it says, you'll have no part in the tree of life.

And so they'll take that to mean the same thing.

Or they'll look at those few verses in Hebrews, because those are some problem or, well, not problem passages, but we'll say troubling passages, where if you just read them, they seem like you can lose your salvation.

But Jim Osmond did a very great sermon series on the book of Hebrews where he explains what those actually Mean, so, yeah, I mean, I, I've run into those people, especially in town, possibly in family, where they take that view, where they would say, yes, you can lose your salvation.

It's kind of troubling because in order to do that, you have to reject Jesus's own promises, what he says about how he views his people and he keeps his people.

And so I, I think we, the emphasis is placed so much on man and not on God.

And so at the end of the day, their views are man is really.

Because these are the same people that would say that, that will boast and say, I chose God, God didn't force me.

I chose him of my own free will.

Well, they, they take that position, but then they also say I can walk away from God and I can lose my salvation.

Like, I, I mean, I listened to a pastor right in front of my face that in John 10, where it talks about no one being able to snatch, be.

To snatch you out of the Father's hand, he follows that up by saying, but it doesn't say you can't jump out, right?

And I'm going, yeah, it doesn't say that because it is, it's not there.

You have to read that in, you know, the power.

The power is not yours.

So the emphasis is heavily placed on man.

So because man garners his own salvation, he can therefore lose his own salvation.

And a lot of times what they're doing is looking at passages that say, like in Revelation, where it'll say if you persist to the end or persevere to the end.

And so the way that they read that is to say, well, then that.

That must be conditional.

So if you, if he's saying if you persist to the end, that means that maybe you won't persist to the end.

Right.

Now let me give one thing with that.

There are some of the passages where you see that.

And our English does a disservice.

Yes.

When we see if in English, that is a conditional clause, we take it as if this then something.

And it's the if is a conditional statement.

If true, whatever's on the then happens.

If not true, then whatever's on the end on the then doesn't happen.

But in Greek, there are different conditional clauses and there are some conditional clauses, and some of them used when used in the case where they say if you persist to the end, where it is accepted as true.

So even though it's putting it as a condition, the condition is assumed to be true.

Like, there's no other way to see this.

And so when it's saying if you persist to the end, the way of reading that is.

And you will, because you must.

Yeah.

It's a.

It's a positive assertion.

Correct.

Yeah.

And that has a very different reading to it that we lose in the English.

I.

I wish that our translators would take those clauses and translate it since.

And when I do.

When I preach and I come to those, I do translate it that way since you will persevere to the end.

Yeah.

Right.

So we have to recognize that in.

In the Greek language.

Now, that might mean you have to go and figure out what the Greek is there.

And go.

Just do a search on Greek conditional clauses and look up the different clauses and they'll tell you it's the.

You.

Even if you don't know any Greek, you look at the Greek letters and in.

In your trans.

You know, go on, you know, lagos.

And look at the words.

Go to Blue letter Bible, whatever you want to do, but look at what the Greek is in the.

In the text you're looking at.

And then go look up the.

Which the conditional clauses are.

And they'll show you.

Here's.

Here's what.

Which ones they are and explain them.

So very easy to do.

And so that is helpful.

Remember, the Bible wasn't written in English, so we have to go back to the Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek.

Because sometimes that is going to make a difference, as in this case.

I don't know some of those.

KJV only is they think the KJV is inspired and the KJV can correct the Greek.

Yeah.

And so Stan, someone who I.

I miss seeing regularly, I used to go to church with him.

He says, wow.

So since you will persevere to the end.

Greek conditional clause.

Did not know that.

Well, that's why you got to tune in here every week, Stan.

Okay.

So Stan is, you know, a guy that is really into health.

And he was one of these guys that, like.

I'm like, yeah, he's into health.

That's not me that's changed.

Right.

You.

You.

You'd admit that now, Drew, right?

I'm a.

I'm kind of a health nut now.

Right.

We'll talk about that with one of our sponsors later.

So.

So one of the things I want to point out is we have to take a look at the different passages that people use to make their arguments.

I.

I almost want to start off with this, my strongest passage, but I'll.

Maybe we should end on it.

But what I'd like to do is first, before we get into discussing whether you can or cannot lose your salvation.

And Drew already started doing this.

I think what's really helpful in this discussion is to start with understanding the nature of regeneration.

Okay, I've kind of already said, and so did Drew a little bit about regeneration.

Right.

You're going from being an enemy of God to a child of God.

So God is adopting you into his family.

He is putting his down payment on you by the personal Holy Spirit indwelling you, which we see in Jeremiah and Ezekiel is the promise of the New Covenant that we wouldn't need a priesthood because the Holy Spirit would indwell us and teach us his word.

Okay.

It's the ministry of the Holy Spirit called illumination.

He brings an understanding of God's word to our.

Our, not to our mind, and the application of that.

And so when we look at that, you look at how much changes at regeneration.

Everything.

Yep.

2Nd Corinthians 5 says, you become a new creation.

The old is done away.

Well, if you lose the salvation, does that mean the old comes back?

If.

And I.

I tell this story, but I was just ignorant in college.

I know Drew saying, I'm still ignorant.

I get it.

I figured a few things.

He especially thinks I'm ignorant when it comes to end times.

But.

I mean, I wasn't going to say it, but.

The.

But the thing is, I was in college.

We used to have this Bible study.

And coming from a Jewish background, when I got to college, it's the first I really was with other Christians and really studying the Scripture.

And I remember we're in a Bible study, and the guy who's teaching made the statement that he doesn't want to get into discussing whether you could lose your salvation or not lose your salvation, because people had different views in the study and he didn't want to get bogged down with that.

And I asked, I mean, an honest question.

I just, I.

Because the first time I heard anyone say that you could lose your salvation, and I just.

I remember turn, I said, Mr.

McGlynn, I'm.

I'm confused.

Because if.

If I am saved, regenerated because God does a work that only God could do, and that's how I enter into regeneration.

How could anything that I do lose that?

Wouldn't God have to be the one to release me or turn me over or unsave me?

And though he didn't want to get into it just because I never heard it before, that question, his.

His son actually was like, that's a really good point.

And one of the guys who was Methodist was really Upset because he believed you could lose your salvation.

But in my ignorance, that's still the same way I view it today.

If God did the regenerating, how did we do the unregenerating?

Right?

How did we take this sin that was paid at the cross?

According to Colossians, it wasn't paid when we got, when we prayed a prayer.

Jesus paid the sin at the cross.

Well, let me, let me just bring that passage up so that we, we have it.

This is Colossians 2, 13 and 14.

And it says, reading out of the legacy standard version, and you being dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcised of your flesh, he made you alive with him having graciously forgiven, given us all our transgressions, not some, all having canceled out the certificate of debt, consisting of the decrees against which was hostile, hostile to us.

He also has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

Every sin we've ever done is post cross.

So if all our transgressions were nailed to the cross, paid at the cross, what sin did Christ miss?

Right?

Because if it's all paid, but now he's gonna hold us accountable for something we do after we pray a prayer.

That's not what that verse says.

It says all our transgressions were nailed at the cross.

They were canceled out.

So if that's the nature of regeneration, somehow if you, if we believe we could lose our salvation, these things, these transgressions that were nailed to the cross and paid for somehow are re accounted to us.

They're re credited to us.

So then the debt wasn't canceled out, it was only partially canceled out.

Another thing I struggle with, with it is then when Christ was on the cross, did he not know, as God, did he not know you would do some sin later in life?

Did he know enough to say, I can save you because I paid this at the cross.

Oh, but I didn't know you would do that.

And that's where I think a big argument has to be understood with this is the nature of regeneration.

Yeah, yeah.

And you're throwing.

Well, you've got, you do run into a lot of problems.

One is Christ on the cross, where the purpose is to pay the sin debt.

The problem with saying you can lose your salvation is saying that he paid your sin debt, but then he fails because you're ultimately stronger than what Christ did on your behalf.

So, so Christ tries to save you, but then he fails in the end.

Another problem is just the, the nature of Faith itself.

Because the Christian life is one that is lived by faith.

And faith is not just.

It is.

It is hoping in things unseen.

But it's not just that.

It's living as though God is not a liar.

And so when Christ makes these promises that he will keep you, he will lose none.

And I know we're going to get to those passages that you cannot be taken out of the Father's hand.

The question is, do you really believe the promises of Christ?

And then so.

So when you have this guy that's saying, I don't want to get bogged down with, you know, this discussion of you can or cannot lose your salvation.

I've had numerous talks with people just since I've been in ministry that they always feel like they've lost, like they were saved, but then they lost their salvation or they didn't do it.

Right.

They're focusing on that works base, but.

But the thing they don't understand because it hasn't been explained to them is the promises of Christ and what Christ says about what he did in securing your salvation and then what he does in the securing of your salvation, Right?

Not just, not just keeping you, but then also consider his mediation for you, right?

The continual mediation where even though you sin, you have an advocate before the Father, and that is Christ who doesn't.

Who, when the Father looks, he doesn't see you in your sin, he looks at Christ and he sees your faith placed in him and he sees the.

The sin paid for on the cross.

And then he sees you clothed in the righteousness of Christ.

Right?

So when you try to bring up that people can lose their salvation, you really undo everything that's going on with crisis mediator, Christ as Savior, you really undo everything with what it means to walk by faith and the promises of God.

Yes.

And a passage that I thought of, as you were saying, it is 2nd Corinthians 5, 20 and 21.

So then we are ambassadors for Christ, as God is pleading through us.

We beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

This next verse, he made him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf so that we might become the righteousness of God in him.

So if we become the righteousness of God, how do we become unrighteous?

So being reconciled with God, how do we become unreconciled?

This is what we're talking about when we talk about the nature of regeneration.

Yep, exactly.

So obviously, if you haven't figured it out, Drew and I believe you can't lose the salvation.

I believe Eternal security means eternal security.

It is secure for all eternity.

I, I, I believe in the words of Christ that says I lose none.

Yes, And I think someone mentions that in the, in, in the chat.

Let's look at some of the things that people have said.

Denise Toth says, if you were born again of the spirit, I don't see how you can undo that.

And that's making the point that we're, we're making here is that if God is the one who does the work, how do you undo what only God can do?

That's, that's the question.

I think you started this one from J3.16, so why don't you read this one?

Yeah.

He says, you have to remember that Jesus said, not everyone that calls me Lord, Lord will enter into the kingdom of God.

Living in the Bible Belt, many profess Christ, but give no evidence of belonging to him.

That is, that, that's very true.

Living in, like here in the Bible Belt, everyone believes themselves to be saved.

And the problem with that is we live in the Bible Belt where everyone believes themselves to be saved.

And you can't tell them otherwise because they grew up in church.

Everyone they know is a believer.

And yet when you look at their life, it shows absolutely no fruit but the fruit of the world, which is rotten fruit.

And the verse he's referencing is Matthew 7, 21:23, which is a good one to memorize and to know because you're going to come upon people that claim to be saved.

I still remember the Fall for Green Film Festival sitting there.

Bobby McCurry is up there, he's preaching.

And some heckler who, this heckler, I was down at one end of this parade to take someone to one of the other ends so they could be with a different preaching team.

And this heckler followed me all the way to where Bobby was at the other end of the festival.

And this heckler saw Bobby and starts getting into Bobby's face, which anyone who knows Bobby, he's a big dude, like, you know, you know, you're not gonna, you know, not gonna intimidate him too much.

But I'm witnessing to this guy.

Now just picture this is a guy, he's got two beers in each hand, he's already slurring his speech and tripping over himself.

I mean, half of his beer, I think, was on me as he was talking.

Because every time he's talking, he's sloshing it over, right?

And he gets upset because this guy is, is criticizing what Bobby is preaching.

And he wants to go Fight the guy.

And I'm like.

I literally.

I'm like.

I put my hand.

I'm like, bobby, I know Bobby.

He could take care of himself.

It's okay.

He's like, no, it's not right.

I'm a Christian, and I don't like him, you know, making fun of a Christian.

And I just looked and I said, sir, you're not a Christian.

And I just.

I quoted Matthew 7:21-23, but he thinks he's a Christian.

I'm like, there's.

What in your life would make me think that you're a Christian?

And when he said he was a Christian, his girlfriend started cracking up.

So it's like, clearly she knows you better than me and doesn't think you're a Christian.

So.

So we have to recognize that there are those who profess to be Christians but do not possess salvation.

Correct.

And that's a big difference.

We're going to get to a passage that talks about that.

Let's see.

Bernard says, if you, quote, fall away, unquote, then you were never saved to begin with.

And this is where we have the dilemma.

Because what it is is that a lot of people who think you can lose your salvation think that a profession of faith is regeneration.

Yeah.

You know, this is.

This, this is a big problem in the modern church because if you listen to preachers of old, if you listen to Martin Lloyd Jones, even if you listen to Richard Owen Roberts, who is in his 90s now, he has talked about people who come to Christ, right?

And especially children, right?

The claim that children come to Christ and we look like we just went through VBS season, right?

Where every church has a vbs and their goal is to try to get kids saved, you know, so that they can go before the church and say these, you know, we had 27 children just accept the Lord as their personal savior in there.

And they're all going to the next church and getting saved again, right?

Yeah, they're all going and getting saved again the next week.

But one of the things that.

But if you.

Even if you take children all the way up to adults, one thing does not happen anymore.

And that's when someone makes a profession of faith.

There used to be a time period where they were.

They were analyzed.

They.

They were.

They were looked at to see has a change occurred in this person's life that will display fruit of a changed heart.

Right.

So can this person comes to me, I'm.

And the goal now is to just immediately get them in the.

Into the baptismal but, but it used to be you come, you make a profession of faith.

Okay, we're going to watch you.

We're going to see how you live your life.

We're going to see if that change has taken root or if you were just caught up in emotion and what was going on.

You know, we need to get back to that.

Yes.

Now, let me.

Aussie fig tree online says, so drinking beer is the unforgivable sin.

Not being argumentative, but these are questions that come up when you discuss this topic.

And I, I actually think it's a fair question.

Right.

Because it seems like what I said might imply that.

Oh, just because he was drinking a beer.

Well, no, there were several things, actually.

The drunkenness, not drinking the beer.

Could a Christian stumble and be in sin and be drunk?

Yes, sure.

He was also living with his girlfriend and having sex with her for many years.

He also was a brawler because he wanted to go fight this guy.

So it wasn't just one thing of his character.

But these were, as I had been talking with him, these were long term issues.

And so that's why I, I would.

I had ended up saying that, you know, now am I God to know for sure?

No.

But it was interesting that his girlfriend readily agreed with me.

Now I want to jump to a different question.

So we'll go out of order because Sister Tara asks a question that I think I do want to make sure we answer.

And it says, she asks, how does someone know they're saved?

I've been struggling with this much lately, and this is a really good question, Tara.

And so let, let us do this.

It's, it's the, the issue is between what we call eternal security and assurance of salvation.

Eternal security is the proposition that when someone is regenerated, they're, well, regenerated.

They can't get unregenerated.

So it is the idea that you are secure for all of eternity.

However, our assurance of salvation is that feeling.

We can have the intellectual knowledge, yes, I am a Christian, I am saved, I'm regenerate.

But when we stumble into sin, we don't feel that way.

Right.

Especially if we keep stumbling into sin, we start to wonder and question.

And that's a feeling.

That feeling comes and goes.

So the question is, how do we overcome the feeling and stick to what we know?

Okay.

Is there a good way to test, Say again?

Sorry, Drew.

It's tough to overcome that feeling.

Yes.

Because you're burdened with such guilt and shame.

And then all you can do nothing other than think, well, Am I truly saved?

Right.

So, yeah, it's, it's tough to, to, to get out of that feeling.

And the only way we're going to do it is by thinking.

Okay, so here's a test that I usually explain to people.

When it comes to the assurance of salvation, I, A lot of people seem to think this is helpful.

So there's a difference between a Christian and an unchristian when it comes to their sin.

The Christian hates the sin itself.

Why?

Because that's what Christ died for.

Do we stumble into sin?

Yes, but we hate the sin itself, where the unbeliever hates the consequence of sin.

Right.

Someone might find out what I've been looking at.

Someone might catch me stealing from someone.

Right.

It's, it's.

They don't mind if they can get away with it, but it's the, it's the consequence they don't like.

Right.

And, and that becomes the big difference.

How do you view your sin?

A genuine Christian hates the sin even though they do it.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's good.

The first thing I usually tell people who, who bring that question to me, how can, how can I know that I'm saved?

The first thing I tell them is I say, well, because a lost person wouldn't care.

Correct.

Saved or not.

And so the fact that you're asking the question is a good sign.

Is a good sign.

Now after that, you know, I would, I would proceed to go, when you sin, do you hate your sin?

Right?

Because if they hate their sin, and I, I like how you put that.

Do you hate the sin or do you hate the consequences?

The consequences say, I don't want to deal with the responsibility and what's going to happen to me.

Hatred of sin deals with the fact that I have displeased my Lord.

Correct.

Super different.

And then I think Jesse nailed it on the head in the comments.

He said, preach the gospel to yourself.

Right.

You know, the gospel.

Preach the gospel to yourself.

And I believe it was Martin Luther that said, I preach the gospel to myself daily because daily I forget it.

Right.

And so we need to constantly be renewing our minds daily with God's word and preaching the gospel to ourselves, because that puts our focus on Christ and what he has done on our behalf.

And it brings us into a worship of God because we know we don't deserve that.

It's only by his grace and his mercy.

Let me put this comment up.

There's someone responding to Sister Tara and, and I'm kind of confused with this, but I'll Just put it up and let's.

It says.

It says, sister Tara, if anyone.

If one desires the things of the Lord, his Word, and desire to see that completed and ongoing work of sanctification in our lives, that's a good place to start.

Now, I agree with his comment.

What's confusing to me, Drew, is that he's on here.

It says the Everyday Patriot.

Is that like some podcast?

Because that picture sure looks like a Chris Huff.

I mean, if you doing a podcast.

I wouldn't be surprised.

If Homie started a podcast called the Everyday Patriot, I would not be surprised.

Is he not recording Matter of Theology with you?

I'm just saying some of us out here miss matter of theology.

Chris, get on that.

Okay.

He's saying, amen.

If.

If we ever think we've reached a place where we don't need to hear the gospel, that's where we need to be concerned.

That's a really good point.

That's why he needs to be doing Matter of Theology.

Again with you, Drew.

Just saying to keep getting the gospel out there.

Yeah, Just, you know, put that knife in there.

To Chris, I mean, we've.

I mean, look, we've changed our.

Look, we've.

We've kind of changed our feel a little bit, you know, so I've updated the logo.

So, yeah, everything's ready to go.

We just need to do it.

That's right.

So, Tara, I hope that that's helpful, and I know that others are saying they're praying for you and things.

I, I.

Let me.

I want to try and get through some of these other questions before we go to more scripture.

I think you might have taken this one, but if you can lose your salvation, then we are kept by our works.

This is the Galatian error that Paul addresses.

And so he makes a good point.

Go read the book of Galatians.

Because that's their whole argument that Christ saved them, regenerated them, but they had to keep all of the Jewish laws to maintain it.

Well, whether you're keeping the Jewish laws or some other laws, you can't maintain what God has given.

Right.

God would have to maintain it.

All right?

And this is the way we do.

Here is J3.16.

Ministry says, if someone can lose their salvation by, quote, jumping out of his hand, unquote, does God lose or forfeit the down payment or Earnest.

And so what he's referring to is, this is the way people will sometimes say it.

God saves you because they.

They.

The question is scripture.

Paul will say, like, who could take you out of the Hand of God.

And so what they say is, well, God's not going to let you out, but you could jump out of the hand.

And.

And the passage referring there is Romans 8.

Well, there's that.

And there's also John 10.

That's where I was.

And just ready to.

Why don't you look up John 10 and do that?

John 10, 28 and 29.

Let me.

Let me put down my NASB and pick up my little pocket LSB.

Oh, why is that more spiritual?

No, just felt like doing it.

Which is funny because in my nasb, everything's highlighted and marked.

Let's see.

Good works.

Sheep.

Hear my voice.

Okay.

Verse 29, my father 28 and 29.

And I give eternal life to them.

So he's talking about his sheep here.

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, ever.

And no one will snatch them out of my hand.

My Father, who has given them to me is greater than all.

And no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

And the.

In Romans 8, and I'm going to start in verse 31, even though it goes, it's further down.

It's.

This is going to be a bit longer, but I think this will be helpful for you.

He.

He says here, Romans 8, 31.

What shall we say then to these things?

If God is for us, who could be against us?

So that's the question he's asking, right?

He who indeed did not spare his own son, but delivered him over for us all, how will he not also give him great?

Give him graciously, give us all things?

So in other words, if he.

If Christ went to the cross for our sin, what's greater than.

Like, what is going to be greater than that?

Verse 33.

Who can bring a God, a charge against God's elect?

God is the one who justifies, Right?

So.

So who.

Who's gonna.

God says he saved someone who's gonna jump out of the hand?

Well, it's God, right?

So it's God is the one who justifies.

Who is the one who condemns Jesus Christ?

He who died.

Yes.

Rather, who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us, who can separate us from the love of Christ.

So he's basically saying Christ is the one holding us.

Christ is the one in control.

So what can separate you?

And he goes through all these different things.

Will affliction or turmoil or persecution or famine or nakedness or peril or sword.

So he gives all of these seven different things Saying that none of those things.

The answer is none of those things.

So affliction, turmoil, persecution, famine, nakedness, peril, sword, none of those things can make you lose your salvation.

Dropping down, he says in verse 37.

But in all things we are overwhelmingly conquer through him who loved us.

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, weight, nor depth, nor any other created thing will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

He gives nine.

Sorry, ten different things.

So when you sin and you're going to lose your salvation, is that death or life?

Well, death and life is the two ends.

It means everything in between.

Angels are rulers, so the spiritual realm, things that are present or things that are to come.

You know, people say that the sin is some future sin you do, you get saved and it's a future sin.

Well, that's the things to come.

So that things to come can't separate you powers nor heights, nor depth.

But in case if you know you missed anything, the last one is.

And nor any created thing.

Are you a created thing?

If the answer is yes, then you cannot separate yourself from the love of God.

It's not possible.

Okay, but the argument that some will have is Hebrews 6.

And I do have an article on the website@restrivingfortrain.org you can check it out to see about Hebrews 6, where I go into explanation of it.

If you do a search on the Rap Report podcast, you will see that I dealt with Hebrews 6, dealt with this topic there as well, on whether you can lose your salvation.

So we go through that in, in detail.

I'm seeing.

Oh yeah, hey, I, I see that Chris Huff is responding to A's philosophy.

So A's philosophy is back.

Would love to see him come in for some discussion.

He said, he says, this ace philosophy says for me, salvation happens at judgment.

Before that we don't know we're saved.

Okay, but A's philosophy, here's the, the problem.

That's not what scripture says.

I, I read from Colossians 2, 13 and 14, which says all of our sin was nailed at the cross.

That is when in God's mind our sin was paid was back then.

If you look at first John 5 at the the end of it in verse 20, he says, and we know that the Son of God has come and that he has given us understanding so that we may know him who is true.

And we are in him who is true in The Son Jesus Christ.

This is the true God and eternal life.

So what he's saying, ace philosophy is that we already have that eternal life.

We already know him.

That's present tense.

It's not something future, it's something that occurred at the cross.

Okay, so back to Hebrews 6.

When we look at this, people will say, it says here the first couple verses.

Therefore, leaving the elementary teaching about the the Christ, let us press on to maturity.

Not.

Not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and.

And of a faith toward God of teaching about washing and laying on of hands and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment.

And this we will do if God permits for the case.

For in the case of those once enlightened, this is verse four.

Having been enlightened and having tasted of the heavenly gift and and having become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and having tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and having fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance since they have crucified to themselves the Son of God and put him to open shame.

Many will use this and say, well, this is proof that you can lose your salvation.

This is one when we look at it.

First off, by the way, hermeneutical principle how to interpret the Bible.

What we have here is a difficult pass.

The Hebrews is hard to understand.

You always interpret the easy to understand passages to the hard.

Okay, Hebrews requires a Jewish mindset.

You have to have a good handle of Leviticus to understand the book of Hebrews.

It is written to people from a Jewish mindset that understand Leviticus well.

They live it and it is throughout this book.

So this is not saying people who have just because they're enlightened people say oh, they're partook of the Holy Spirit.

It must be that they are believers.

Not so.

It also could refer just as it for the nation of Israel.

Not everyone who is in the nation of Israel was.

Was saved, was regenerated.

Not all Israel is Israel.

In other words, you had those that were part of the nation, that were go, that go to hell.

But they are described as having partaken, they've tasted.

And so what you have here is people who attend church, but they're not believers.

They profess, they don't possess.

And like I said, the paper that I have goes into far more detail there.

So Ace Philosophy says Striving Fraternity in John 1:5.

That follows the rest of the epistle wherein it is made clear that we must obey the Commandments to be saved in a relationship with God.

Now I don't know what specific verse he's referring to, but what you do see here is a lot of people like to go to First John and ignore the context of First John.

First John is dealing with Gnosticism, kind of.

We didn't know we'd go here, Drew, but the guy that we played at the beginning of the, the, at the opening, what you have there is someone who you know is, is saying that they're partaking of salvation when they can be comfortable in sin.

Okay.

They're these Gnostics say that they can literally the argument was you could, they could sleep with a prostitute.

As long as they don't do it in the flesh or sorry, in the spirit, they just do it in the flesh.

So they made excuse for sin.

So First John is very black and white because he's dealing with people who claim to possess Christianity, to possess Christ, but they live a life of sin and they're.

The fruit reveals that they don't have salvation, they don't have regeneration.

So when you say that, oh, this proves it.

What it proves in its context is that there are people who claim to know Christ and they are without Christ.

Matthew 7, 21, 23.

So A's philosophy says John, he's referring to John.

He says here, John, first John 5, 13 in context, teaches that we must obey the commandments for salvation.

We know we are saved by the fact that we are observing the commandments.

And it says there these things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know you have eternal life.

If I already have it, I can't get it by doing works.

Yeah, I mean if he's referring to that as teaching works based salvation, I mean, that's not there.

I mean he's writing these things as an encouragement, especially verse 13.

I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have.

Right.

This, this is an assurance of the knowledge that you have salvation.

Right.

So, so where does he get in there that this teaches works based salvation?

Well, because the idea is that what we, which what the pastor's actually teaching is if you're in Christ, you will do the works.

Right.

That's the sanctification.

Right.

I mean, I see the parts in, in verses 1 through 1 through 5, 1 through 4, but those are, you know, like you said, this is the result of having been saved.

Right.

So it's teaching that the Christian, the One who is in Christ loves God's law.

It's not a burden upon him, but it's something that he actually rejoices in.

Yeah.

And A's philosophy is saying it's.

It's in the context, but he's ignoring the purpose of the book.

So you're.

You're taking it out of context when you do that, because the context of the book is actually condemning people who say that they can be saved without having the works of sanctification.

That's the whole point of it.

All right, so let's.

Let's do this.

We.

We.

I know you.

We have a couple more things starred.

Let me bring this one up.

Jesse said earlier he will by no means cast out.

And he references John 6.

37.

And so what that verse says is, all that the Father gives me will come to me.

And the one who comes to me, I will never cast out.

Keep reading, keep reading.

Okay.

For I have come down from heaven not to do my own work, my own will, but the will of him who sent me.

This is the will of him who sent me.

That of all that he has given me, I lose nothing.

But raise it up on the last day.

Well, if we.

If you're going to raise it up on the last day and they're already possessed, that means that they can't be at the judgment like Ace philosophy believes.

Yeah, because you already have it and you haven't faced the judgment yet.

And Christ taught that because he.

I believe he said Jesus didn't teach that.

Yeah.

Jesse Heller will put this up as the last one.

That of the.

The ones we have here.

And let me pull this up.

John 3.

36, which says, he who.

He who believes in the Son has eternal life.

But he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.

And so he says, John 3.

36.

Whoever believes in the Son has.

And he put that in caps.

Eternal life.

If we have currently eternal life, how can we lose it?

And.

And that is.

Is the point that we're kind of hitting over and over and over again.

Hold on.

This.

This gets wd.

I don't know who this is, but we've all.

But this is.

Gets to what we've been talking about.

He won't cast you out.

No lie.

You can opt out.

That's your choice.

I believe you covered that.

Are you right?

Are you in anyone?

If.

If no one can snatch it, snatch you out of the Father's hand, You can't opt out because you are a no one that he is referencing.

Well, you have to cast yourself out.

You have to be greater than God.

But.

But WD.

Here's a question, simple question I have for you.

Are you a created thing?

If you can opt out because Romans 8, we read it, but I'll.

I'll mention again, what can separate you from the love of God?

He says in here, nor any created thing will be able to separate you from the love of God.

Are you a created thing?

If you are a created thing, then you cannot separate yourself from the love of God.

So we take the clear passages to explain the unclear.

That's kind of clear.

Many of these passages that we're giving you is clear, but the clearest and the one that really explains the issue.

When you see someone that makes a profession and then walks away, they go apostate.

Is first John 2.

9.

Okay, sorry.

19.

This is the clearest passage because it explains exactly what we're.

What we see when we see someone that makes a profession then walks away.

John says here, First John 2.

19.

They went out from us, but they were not really of us.

And the word really is added in this, so it really should say, but they were not of us.

For if they were of us, they would have remained with us, but they went out so that it would be manifest that they were not of us.

So when you see someone that makes a profession of faith and then walks away, what they're doing is exposing the fact that they never were believers.

They were nothing more that hit than hypocrites that stopped pretending.

Right?

Right.

That's what they were.

And so that's something that we have to recognize.

Okay, this is the clearest verse because it tells you exactly what we see.

They were never of us.

They.

They claim they were, but the fact that they went away, if they were of us, they would remain with us.

Okay.

And so I.

I think that when we look at this, it's overwhelming that the passages teach that we.

We cannot lose our salvation.

So we talked about the topic of what is, what does it mean to truly be saved?

We talked about the warning passages, like in Hebrews 6, we could look to Hebrews 10 or all these others, and that's what they are.

They're warning passages warning you not as if you can lose your salvation, but warning you not to sin.

We discussed the distinction between false converts and struggling believers.

And we discussed the difference between eternal security and the fact that we can have an assurance or we might lack an assurance of salvation.

So these are the issues that often come up with this.

And you know, it is something that I know a lot of people struggle with.

And they struggle with it because.

Well, a couple things.

One, they struggle with their own sins.

They start to question their own salvation.

Or they see someone who they always thought was a believer or someone that claims to be a believer.

And now they walked away from faith, they're denying the faith and they.

They can't explain that.

Now first John 2:19 explains it.

They're hypocrites that stop pretending.

I mean, look folks, Christ spoke about hypocrisy more than he did heaven and hell.

Why?

Because the Jewish leaders thought in their self righteousness that they were saved.

They would have said they're saved.

They would have made that claim.

They would have professed a regeneration of salvation, but they didn't possess it.

And Jesus over and over again is talking about hypocrisy.

The.

The parables that he gives.

The parable of the soils.

That's dealing with hypocrisy.

One soil absolute unbeliever.

One soil absolute believer.

But the focus is on the two soils in the middle.

Those are the ones is focused on the hypocrites.

The ones that profess to have us a regeneration.

They pers.

They pretend like they're going to grow.

And yet soon as the world comes or sin comes, they get choked out, they burn up, they die.

In other words, they claim a salvation that they do not have.

That's what it's about.

The wheat and the tares.

They grow up together.

But they're going to be judged differently because even though they both were in the church, one is saved and one is not.

Right?

Each of these are dealing with hypocrisy.

This good Samaritan.

Why were the Jewish leaders upset?

Because it was pointing out their hypocrisy.

So many of the parables are dealing with this topic because of the very same reason we have to deal with it today.

Many people proclaim that they are regenerate when they are not.

It really comes down to that.

That's it.

We got through that show pretty quick.

Yeah.

No, we should.

Well, we'll see.

Maybe ace philosophy will come in and.

And we can start to discuss.

Now.

He.

He's.

He's bringing up the fact that, well, what do you know that we have to endure to the end?

Now this is where it's.

What we said earlier about the perseverance to the end.

The issue is, is that when you look at those passages, they're not a.

If you pursue it's a.

Since you will pursue.

It assumes that just as we see here in First John 2:19, it assumes that if you are in Christ, you will persevere.

And if you're not in Christ, you won't persevere.

That's the whole point.

Okay, so Ace philosophy says I can't join right now.

I.

I have to go now.

Thanks for the invitation though.

I will watch the rest of the show.

Well, I do hope one day you will come in.

It'd be probably be a fun discussion.

So.

But now might be a good time, Drew, to get a word from our sponsors.

Yeah.

Because they kind of like that.

They do.

So one of the sponsors we have here is Logos Bible Software.

And I know Logos Bible Software seems to be expensive.

Well, it used to be, but now they have the subscription ones where you can, you can get a subscription and you can get them as we went and we looked and priced it out, you can get them for as cheap as $7 a month if you get it.

If you do two years up front, that's not so bad.

That's cheaper than a Starbucks coffee or a carton of eggs under Biden.

Yeah.

And so you know, you can get great software that could help you in this study, if you want to know.

Well, is, is this word, you know, is it a first class conditional Greek or second?

Well, you could figure out what the Greek is very easily when you have Logos Bible software.

That's what I do.

I mean, it's just one click away, literally.

And so it is what I use.

I love Lagos Bible software.

And so if you go to lagos.com sfe the SFE stands for Striving Fraternity.

Lagos.com SFE will get you some great discounts there at Lagos.

I encourage you to go there, buy all the books you can the subscriptions that you want.

If you buy books separately, you get to keep them.

But this subscription is based on you continuing to pay the subscription.

So we talked about the fact that I'm a bit of a health nut, Drew, and it's all your fault because.

Well, I like blaming everything on you.

Two things everyone else.

Yeah, two things I love to do is I start my day with a nice cold plunge.

I know you don't think it's nice and I think it's nice right now.

Come tomorrow morning, I won't think it's nice.

And the other thing is.

But I end my day with a nice hot sauna.

And they're two great ways of increasing your health.

And one thing you could do is get yourself a cold plunge or A sauna by the company Plunge.

If you go to strivingforeternity.org plunge striving for eternity.org plunge.

You can pick yourself up a cold plunge.

My cold plunge?

Yeah.

It's a bit expensive because I live in cold weather, so I have to have a.

I.

I need a chiller that's going to clean the water, but it's also got to have some heat to it so that when it drops down to 9 degrees and I go outside, because, yeah, I do that, that's going to stay at 44 degrees.

Now, I will admit, Drew, we kind of have somewhat of a heat wave.

It was 104 out the other day, and so I jumped into the cold plunge and went, gee, it's 44 degrees.

I.

I think I need to turn it down a bit.

Get it down to 40, because it was so hot out.

I jumped in.

It was like.

Like, oh, first.

First 30 seconds.

Always bad.

But after, I was like, this is refreshing.

See, down here, we have.

You're muted, though.

I'm not muted.

Yeah, you're not muted here, so it's probably on your.

On your mic.

So while you figure it out.

So if you go to.

If you want to get yourself a cold plunge or a sauna, go to striving for eternity.org plunge.

And that's where you can get yourself a nice cold plunge.

It's fun watching Drew tap the mic and nothing comes out.

He.

Did you touch anything, dude?

No.

I mean, it was working just fine.

I know I haven't.

We'll see if folks in the audience can hear.

Maybe it's just on my end.

Folks in the audience, do you hear Drew at all?

Yeah.

Let him know if you hear me.

Because he's trying to talk.

So there's a delay.

So I have to wait to see if anyone is hearing him.

Yeah.

Oh, we can hear him.

Okay, so it's on my end.

Okay.

There you go.

Interesting.

Yeah, fix your end.

I love when this does this.

Okay, hold on.

Let's try that now.

Yep.

Did you fix it?

Let's see.

Can I hear you now?

Can you hear me now?

No, because this is the time.

All right, well, we're gonna do this.

I'm gonna go out and come back in.

We'll see if that works.

Yeah, let him go out so that.

Let's see if I can bring this up.

One of our other sponsors is a little company called Farmstead Cottage.

I kind of like this company because.

Okay, I hear you now.

Oh, man.

I was.

I was doing a sponsor Go for it.

I like this company mainly because I own it.

And so we do wax melts.

We do wax melts, room sprays.

We do body butters.

And the crazy thing is we had.

It was really weird.

We had this surge of people just buying body butters, some of sometimes two at a time.

We sold out.

I made another batch, and then it sold out.

And so I had to.

Had to then make more.

But that we're getting is body butter.

I guess it's like a lotion.

I don't know.

Make it.

Yeah.

So we use.

We.

We make ours with beef tallow and shea butter.

And what it does is it actually hydrates the skin really well.

So if you suffer with dry skin, beef, our beef tallow body butter is really good for you because it.

I gotta try some of that then.

Yeah.

But, you know, start thinking, Christmas time's coming up.

Fall.

We've got some fall fragrances that are really good.

And wax melts and room sprays.

We've got car diffusers.

You know, a lot of things that, you know, you'll like to make your house smell good.

So if you go to farmsteadcottage.com and you go to check out, use the code SFE, you'll get 10% off of your order.

I'm going there right now.

There you go.

Look at that.

Hey, look at that.

So where do I find this body butter thing?

It's on there somewhere.

Folks, doesn't it sound like he really knows this website that he created for his own company?

It's on there somewhere.

Just go to catalog.

I'm sure you'll find it.

You can scroll through.

It'll be on there.

There's a fall collection.

Is that where I should go?

No, catalog.

Okay.

The first thing is this body butter.

There you go.

Does it smell?

Hey, I see.

I see the.

And it's unscented.

Yeah.

So the body butter is also unscented because we do want to start making products for people who are sensitive to fragrance.

So it doesn't have any scent, only the natural shea butter that's in there.

Neat.

I'm going there now.

There you go.

You should have an order by the time the show's done or truly after.

But what I was saying about your cold plunge is down here in Georgia, we have this thing called humidity.

And the humidity hits really early in the morning during the summer.

And so your cold plunge will probably feel like a hot tub by the time you wake up and go to get in it.

Well, I think we should try that out.

I Think you should get yourself a cold plunge, maybe set it to 30 degrees, see if that what that does.

Yeah, I wouldn't want to get into one.

I have gotten into 30, 33.

That was cold.

Have you ever jumped into, like, a swimming pool or anything that was ice that was iced over on the top?

Well, I did.

Well, I did get into the cold plunge once where there was ice on it because the phone flipped the breaker and so it, at 9 degrees out, started to freeze.

Okay.

So, yeah, so we've done it in the winter where friends who have had pools and it ices over ran jump into the pool.

Into the ice pool.

We've done that.

And did you.

And you survived.

So survived.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, then a cold plunge wouldn't be a big deal.

It's.

No, it's not.

All right, so question for you, Jeanette.

AD wants to know what the website is.

Why don't you put that up for her?

Sure.

Yeah.

I mean, I could say it, but I mean, sometimes I'm not able.

You should do both because the audio podcasters would like to know, too.

True.

That.

Yeah, it's farmsteadcottage.com.

Dude, I am saving myself a dollar and 30 cents.

There you go.

Body butter with the promo code S.F.E.

There it is.

Yeah, that's huge.

Yeah, there we go.

It's.

It's ordered.

And.

And the beautiful thing is you're not going to know who ordered it.

Well, you will, because I just did it and I just told you.

But you now know one of my aliases.

But, you know, and so I'm trying to.

I really am trying to keep the prices super low just because, you know, the tariffs do have an effect on the fragrance industry because.

And.

And especially with body butters, Shea butter, cocoa butter, those things are.

Are going up in price, but especially even on the fragrance end with the stuff I have with fragrance, because fragrance uses certain raw materials to make them that are only harvested in China.

And so the price on those has been skyrocketed.

And so that's caused, like, my company that I work for to have to raise the prices.

And so the company I own, I'm trying to keep those prices as low as possible to just to make sure people have a good alternative to be able to get some smell good for their home.

Yeah, well, in your home, you need a lot of that with you around.

I mean, you should consider showering.

Yeah.

I mean, it has nothing to do with having three boys, you know?

Yeah.

Nothing to do.

Nothing.

So I.

I do hope.

I mean, we Covered a lot of topics.

We did it kind of quickly.

I hope that for folks that this was helpful.

I mean, this is a topic that a lot of folks struggle with.

The question becomes, you know, as we think it through, and I want you to think like, why do we struggle with it?

Why.

You know, is it that there's sin in our.

In our life, that we are doubting our salvation?

Is it that we're seeing people that we really want to believe were once saved and now they're denying the faith?

And we need to explain that somehow.

Is it.

Is it so hard to.

To doubt that someone might be thinking, you know, professing that they have a salvation that they don't?

I mean, I really think that 1st John 2:19 has a perfectly reasonable explanation to.

To these things.

And Jesse says, great topic, great show.

Thank you for that.

Jesse.

Jacob says, appreciate you guys.

Keep up the good work, gents.

Oh, you know what I meant to do?

We could do this now.

Let me pull this up.

I'm gonna pull up now that I.

I never look at stats for the show.

I'm really bad that way, I admit it.

But a friend of mine, Daniel J.

Lewis, has a tool that he's been working on for years called POD Gaugement, which helps you pull all of your reviews together and.

And stats and things like that that.

I got to go back, Drew, because looking at the stats, this podcast was the number one podcast in the Christianity category and the number three podcast in religion and spirituality in the Philippines on April 27th.

I gotta go back to figure out what we.

What we covered April 27, that we.

We jumped all the way up to number one in Christianity, number three in religion and spiritual reality.

Like, wow, we were.

We were doing pretty good then.

Yeah, we were.

So it might have been the shows I wasn't on.

Oh, I don't know.

You know, there were.

There.

I was looking at some of the.

Some of the reviews that we had, and it's always fun to look at these now that I have them all in one place.

So it's, you know, it was.

It's interesting because, you know, some of them are like, you know, someone was like.

And I think it was under the.

Oh, it's under the other account.

The, the podcast review was like, they pretend to be fair, but they're, you know, they really don't debate in.

In.

I forget how it was worded, but it's really kind of funny because it's like the one thing people say is that we're really fair and, and you Know, give people who come in at this realist ample time to present their views, you know, but they're like, oh, no.

And I'm like, I wonder who this person really is.

He's probably someone that came on the show and his arguments were destroyed.

And so he's like, yeah, you know, probably.

Yeah, that's probably it.

Yeah.

I just realized I had to.

In talking about the store, I had to order more labels for one of my room sprays because I was like, I was trying to take inventory of them the other day, and I was like, oh, I'm completely out of these labels.

I need to order more.

And so now I just ordered more.

So they should be in five to, five to eight days.

If anyone orders a Frasier fur room spray, just.

There you go.

You know, Mike, Mike Peterson says that very helpful for this, this show.

And, and so I, if, if you.

If you are so inclined, maybe you could give us a review if you're listening on a podcast, whatever podcast app you're listening to, if you are.

I, I think it still works.

Let's.

Let's see if you, if you go to.

I think that the link.

I'm going to test this link because I haven't tested it in a while for reviews.

And so let me just try this out.

Because you never want to give something that isn't going to work, which.

So if you go to lovethepodcast.com apologetics live, you should be able to give a review there.

Yeah.

So lovethepodcast.com apologetics live will get you where you could send a review and then we could see it.

We would love to do that.

And if you do, we will.

We will put that up on the, on the show.

We'll discuss that.

Tara wants to know what's your most popular spray?

So there's two Country Pumpkin Pancakes and Woodland Hearth are the two most popular ones.

All right, well, you know, I think what we'll do is we'll end a bit early and.

Because, as you know, Drew, there's some things going on in my life that are very distracting for me today.

Yep.

So.

So Andrew needs prayer is.

Oh, big time.

You're telling people.

Oh, big time.

Yeah, major.

Life decisions, wisdom.

Yeah.

I think folks probably figured out already because if those who are regular, you know that I've been moving in different rooms of the house.

I'm now in the guest bedroom.

We have been selling the house.

We have an offer that is well, far under what we thought market value was.

And so we kind of only have one offer.

And so we have to make a.

A really big decision.

So be praying if it's not the Lord's will, that this would fall through and the right offer would come through.

We were convinced this morning I left the house convinced we were going to say no to this offer and see what the Lord was going to do.

And my wife and I both ended the day going, I think we have to take this.

That's the right thing to do.

So we just don't know.

Not very comfortable.

Not really thrilled, but.

And also pray for our next steps because we, we don't know where we're going next.

So makes it for a fun adventure.

But we'll find a different place to record each week.

It could be good.

Kathy is saying, we'll pray for you, Andrew, and have been praying for you and your wife and the ministries.

Yeah, do pray for the ministry.

I.

I don't really plug this often, but if you would consider going to strivingfortunity.org strivingfraternity.org and support us there.

I think it's slash support, but just go to the support page.

We.

We really have been losing donors.

Due to.

I mean, ever since COVID we, we lost a lot.

We gained some back, and ever since Joe Biden, we've been losing, losing, losing.

And so we really.

We are a ministry that tries to help small churches that can't afford to have people come to them and minister to them.

And we've always been able to do that, but the bank account now is at the lowest.

It's.

It has been since about a couple years after we started.

And so we've never had it this loaf for.

For a long time.

And we're actually now having to pick and choose which ministries we can go, which churches we can help.

We don't like to have to do that.

And so if any of you, if God puts it on your heart, if you get.

If you're blessed by what we do here, we do this hours every week in.

Well, I know Drew doesn't do the show prep, but I have show prep.

I prepare.

He comes in and talks because he could do that.

He could just be off the cuff and sound intelligent.

I have to work at it.

Okay, you should.

It should be the reverse, right?

Because we both have experience podcasting and teaching and doing theology.

But you've got far more experience than I do.

Yeah, well, that may be, but I still like to be prepared, so.

But yeah, no, if, if you get blessed by this ministry, would you consider go to StrivingFraternity.org and help donate.

If you give on a monthly basis, that really helps us a lot.

Any amount is good.

I mean, $5 a month is $5 more than we're getting.

So if Andrew can double my salary.

Yeah.

And if you get, if you do get some things from Drew's business, you know, the first hundred dollars, I keep saying thousand dollars, hoping that I'll gaslight him and he'll, he'll go with the thousand dollars, but the first hundred dollars he's going to donate to us.

And so we're, we're, we're hoping that.

So, yeah, so, so we are there, but so we're just opening up because we don't have the bank, the company bank account yet.

So we're waiting for that so that we can transfer funds to you.

So we've already got it prepared.

We're just getting the bank account set up to be able to send to you.

Oh, that'd be cool.

Yeah.

And, you know, let's do this if we get to.

Because we're not at our first thousand dollars yet.

We get to the first thousand dollars.

Hey, I'll send you another hundred.

There we go.

I like that.

Every thousand dollars, maybe that's not a bad idea.

I like that.

So go, Go and help him out.

And that helps us out.

Getting things from our sponsors helps us.

Going to my pillow helps us, you know, things like that.

So please do that in my pillow.

Use promo code sfa.

So next week we'll have a different topic for you.

There's a couple of them thinking of when I, I do have some fun things planned for when both co hosts are back.

But, you know, I, I drew and I'll talk about some different topics.

Tom cannot be here next.

I think the next two weeks trying to.

He's going to be out in Cali doing some evangelism out there.

So pray for him.

And, uh, we, we hope that what we've done here is not only given you some tools to do apologetics, but we've also hopefully showed in, in responding to comments and things like that, how to do it.

And we want to be a, A good witness for Christ when we do apologetics.

So hope that this has been helpful for you.

Hope you guys learned a lot.

And with that will.

We will.

We hope that you will strive to make today an eternal day for the glory of God.

And we'll see you next week.

See you.