Foreign.

Podcast is brought to you by Head Start Basketball.

These are our standards, these are our expectations.

This is who we're going to be on and off the court.

And every meeting that we had leading up to us being on campus as a team, we were constantly reminding them.

Every slide deck started with these are the standards, these are the expectations, and we're going to continue to work on that together.

It's not going to be perfect, and we're learning that now, but I think that was really what we were trying to lay the groundwork of is we've seen what it looks like right when it's finished.

We have a pretty good blueprint.

But this is a different animal.

It's got to be different.

We have to be adaptable.

We have to figure some things out.

So investing in our people, investing in the culture, and kind of having the end in mind of where we want this thing to ultimately go E.J.

Dunn is in his first year as the head men's basketball coach at MIT.

He spent the past seven years at Gettysburg College where he put together an 89 and 68 overall record and saw his teams advance to four straight Centennial Conference semifinals over the past four seasons.

In 2024-25, he helped guide Gettysburg to the program's first 20 win season since 20072008 and its highest national ranking in program history at number eight as the Bullets earned an at large bid to the NCAA Tournament, advancing to the second round before falling to top seeded Wesleyan in the second round.

Prior to Gettysburg, Dunn guided the Vassar College men's basketball program for five seasons.

In his first season as head coach, Dunn became the youngest head coach in the NCAA at all levels at the time and in 2016 he was one of two Division III coaches named to the Under Armour 30 Under 30 team.

Before his time at Vassar, Dunn spent a year as the men's basketball top assistant coach at emerson College in 2011-2012 under Jim O'.

Brien.

A former head coach at Ohio State University, he was also an assistant coach at Babson College in 2010-2011.

Dunn is a 2010 graduate from Bates College with a Bachelor of Arts degree in Sociology.

He was a three year letter winner and served as a student assistant coach as a senior for the Bobcats.

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Hi, this is Ted Houghteling, head men's basketball coach at the University of New Haven, and you're listening to the Hoop Heads podcast.

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Be prepared to take some notes.

You listen to this episode with BJ Dunn, head men's basketball coach at mit.

Hello and welcome to the Hoop Heads podcast.

It's Mike Cleansing here without my co host Jason Sunkel tonight, but I am pleased to be joined for the second time.

Welcome back to the Hoop Heads Pod.

B.J.

dunn, head men's basketball coach at MIT.

B.J.

welcome.

Thanks, Mike.

Appreciate all that you do for the basketball community.

So thanks for having me again.

Appreciate it.

And we are excited to have you on.

Looking forward to diving into the new chapter that you have come into in your life.

When we last spoke, you were at Gettysburg and now the head coach at mit.

So we're going to kind of put the focus of the podcast on the transition from one job to another.

What the process was like for you, what it's been like building a new program.

So let's go back to the end of the season last year at Gettysburg.

Just talk me through the end of the season and then kind of into the off season as the MIT job comes open and just sort of the thought process of that.

What got you interested in the job to begin with?

Yeah, no, absolutely.

So, yeah, I mean, you know, the end of the season for us, for us at Gettysburg, I mean, it was, it was, it was pretty incredible.

I mean, it was a pretty emotional ride too.

You know, I remember being in the locker room at Johns Hopkins in the conference semifinals and we just lost a heartbreaker and overtime, it Was just an unbelievable basketball game.

Whoever was going to have the ball last was going to win and you know, hearts, hearts were broken.

There are a lot of tears, A lot of guys thought their careers were over.

Our season was over.

I felt like we had done enough in the regular season, especially non conference play to put ourselves in a position to receive an at large opportunity.

But we had to be patient, we had to wait and watch and you know the D3 data cast guys, I'm going to give them a shout out.

They did an unbelievable job of continuing a live update where everybody stood on the bubble going into the final weekend and I just kind of hunkered down on Saturday.

Sunday I watched every single Division 3 basketball game that mattered and impacted us.

And it was a pretty surreal emotional feeling when we knew that we were in and really the last team in to the Division 3 NCAA tournament on that Sunday.

And you know to be able to text your guys to tell them that hey, we have more life, we have more basketball to be played.

And you know, it was a senior class that's the all time winningest class in school history.

It was the first time since 2009 going to the NCAA tournament, only second time in school history advancing to the second round.

So you know what was really cool about is when our name got called on Monday we ended up in Wesleyan's pot and I played for Joe Riley, the head coach at Wesleyan.

So that was a pretty unbelievable experience to be able to go to a, you know, a place that's led by, you know, someone who's so important in my life and you know, they had an unbelievable run and season.

I went to a final four and you know, we shared a Courtland NCAA tournament which is pretty cool as a former player coach.

But yeah, I mean when that season ends, you know, I always say like in coaching like the goal is, you know, to be able to cultivate an environment and culture where no one wants it to end.

And I felt like in that locker room you totally felt that.

It was super emotional.

A lot of love use, you know, sadness, but also just like this idea of the joy that you know, we did something really hard together.

We overcame this unbelievable challenge that we were all faced together and that was just, you know, kind of led us, you know, into the off season.

And I think, you know, you never really have any intentions, I think on leaving especially Division 3.

Gettysburg was an incredible place to me and my family.

My wife is an alum, we have two boys that are five and one and we felt like it was A great place to raise our family.

But I think there's a lot of things that kind of happen, like, behind the scenes at our level, when you kind of think about, like, career path, professional development, personal growth, and you start kind of having some of those questions, like, with your family, especially when, you know, a job like MIT opens up.

And I have a ton of respect for Larry Anderson.

Just an unbelievable Coach.

Coach for 30 years, 467 wins, national players of the Year, Academic All Americans of the Year, Final Fours, Elite Eights.

I mean, go look at his resume.

It's.

It's really impressive.

And when something like that kind of opens up, it.

You start kind of having some of those conversations.

And, you know, our athletic director had left someone that, you know, I was really close to and.

And believed in.

And, you know, you start having more, I think, again, just more of those conversations, like, where is my career path?

Am I getting the personal and professional development and growth opportunities, you know, that I'm craving?

And, you know, Massachusetts was a really desirable place.

It's where I'm originally from.

It's where my wife and I ended up meeting.

She was head woman's lacrosse coach and a graduate student at Emerson.

I was assistant men's basketball coach.

And she spent a good portion of just her professional life up in Massachusetts.

And, you know, we felt like it would be worth exploring.

I think what was really unique about it was Larry retired in May, and MIT didn't really reach out and express interest in us until, like, the third week of July.

So it was really kind of late right in that process.

You know, I think optically, you know, we kind of had some conversations.

Like, we didn't feel like it was.

It was maybe the right time.

Then, you know, we had.

We had no kind of hesitations about mit.

It's the number one school in the world.

It was a place that we both loved.

But I think, you know, because it was so late in the process, you know, we were concerned just about our boys and how that transition was going to go.

Right.

You kind of go to all the places anxiety could take you.

Right?

Like the what ifs and, you know, you don't even have the job or know that they even think about you in that way yet.

But, you know, those are some of the things that I think go through your mind at Division 3, because we know it's a long process.

It's not like Division one, where someone phone calls you and you have a job the next day.

And my wife really pushed me to, you know, when they had reached out and expressed interest and wanted me to interview.

You know, she really pushed me to pursue it and said, I think this is the one, and you need to really think about this.

And I remember, like, the first time, you know, I zoomed in the interview process.

You know, I'm.

I'm an extrovert.

I love talking to people.

I love seeing people's energy and emotions, and I feed off of that.

So I love to coach.

There was no camera, so you're just talking to six people, and you're just reading their names on a screen.

And it was really hard to gauge how everybody kind of felt about you and kind of walked away, like, yeah, I don't think I'm the guy.

And I didn't hear for them for two weeks.

And that's a really long time in the process.

And it was like a Thursday.

It's like the second week in August.

Our son was starting kindergarten.

It was August 18th.

He was going to start kindergarten.

His birthday was August 20th.

Our freshmen were going to move to Gettysburg on campus August 20th.

And, you know, I was like, all right, you know, this.

This is it.

Like, I. I just.

Like, our recruiting class is great at Gettysburg.

Like, I'm locked in.

Like, we just had a great season.

We got a great team coming back.

You kind of stop thinking about it.

And then they call, and they're like, hey, we want you to come to campus.

And I remember being a little caught off guard and, you know, just letting them know that, hey, I. I really need to think about this.

I need to spend more time talking to my wife.

You know, I think the challenge.

This is kind of what we're feeling.

And, you know, this is a huge move for us and our family.

It's a huge career change as well.

And, you know, then when we got off the phone, a couple people close to me had mentioned that some people were reaching out to them.

And I felt like that was when I kind of felt like, okay, I think they're really serious.

Like, I think this.

We're gaining some traction here.

And I ended up going to campus.

I felt like I connected with the players.

You know, I had great meetings with the athletic director, sports supervisor, and staff.

And I left campus on a Friday, and on Monday, they made a phone call.

And it was just a really emotional week because our son just started kindergarten, which is a different emotion in all of itself when he walks into school by himself.

He turned five two days later.

And that was kind of the deadline that they had given us, is, hey, we need to know, by Wednesday, and it's his birthday, and you're trying to let him enjoy his day, but you're trying to find pockets in the day to kind of talk it over with your wife, talk it over with your closest mentors.

And our freshman had moved to campus that day, too.

And I just think optically, it was, it was really challenging kind of working through that.

And, you know, obviously we decided that we felt like this was the best decision for our family.

And, you know, here we are halfway through the season up in Massachusetts.

All right, what were some of the questions that you had for the administration at MIT when you started looking at, hey, I know the reputation obviously, of MIT as a school.

You mentioned Coach Anderson and the success that he's had, but clearly, until you're on the inside, you don't really know all the ins and outs of, hey, what do they want this program to be?

What's the vision of it?

So what were the questions that you had for them going into the interview process that you wanted to, to have answered?

Yeah, no, absolutely.

I mean, I, I think, you know, we were really trying to, like, just evaluate, I think, you know, how serious they were going to be.

I think, you know, about men's basketball again.

I mean, to go to Final Four.

They went to an elite eight in 2018, second round of 2019.

So it seemed like there was so much traction prior to Covid, but all the other teams at mit, you know, were winning at a really high level.

I mean, MIT won four national championships last year.

The past decade, it's been, you know, top six in the Director's cup every single year.

So, you know, I really wanted to know from them, all right, like, these are the challenges.

And I actually thought MIT did an unbelievable job in the process of.

They didn't hide the challenges.

And to me, they were incredibly transparent about that, and I really appreciate that.

I think they understood, like, you know, I was coming from a program where, hey, like, we were eighth in the poll for a couple, couple weeks.

We went to the second round NCAA tournament.

Like, they knew that this would be a massive, I think, change and shift for me and my family dynamics.

My, my family hasn't been with me for three months.

They've still been in Pennsylvania.

So I think, you know, it wasn't as many questions that I felt like I need to ask.

I just appreciated so much transparency of, hey, like, bj, these are the challenges and we're going to work with you to problem solve them.

And we're just looking for someone who's willing to problem solve with some energy and, and find some solutions and get this program back on track with the culture piece.

And you know, so a lot of my questions were just, were just around that, you know, know, you know, wanting to make sure that we were going to be supported and to be able to provide a really strong student athlete experience.

But I think the blueprint was, was already there watching a lot of our other teams perform and, and have success.

I mean, our woman soccer team went to the third round of that two tournament and lost by a goal to the national champs.

So, you know, I, I, I really believe that it, that it could be done.

I think you just want to get a feel for, I think the rhythm of, of the life at MIT as a student athlete is totally different than anywhere else.

It's so unique.

And just really wanted to know how other coaches have kind of problem solved that and worked on how they've been so successful.

When everybody talks about all the challenges and I felt like we would be able to do that was one of.

Those challenges that they laid out for you that maybe you didn't see coming into the interview process.

You know, I think the biggest, you know, the real, you know, the challenge is, you know, our guys have such a unique rhythm to their day and if they're not in class, they're doing undergraduate research projects, they're working on startups, you know, they're interviewing at high levels for, you know, job opportunities.

A lot of our guys work in the sports lab and they do a lot of things with the mba.

So, you know, it's really unique in that like they're, they're going all the time, their motor is incredible.

Right?

It's the number one school in the world.

We're talking about like the brightest students in the world.

But I think they're there because they're driven, they're intrinsically motivated.

Their work motors at such a high level.

And you know, I think one of the challenges that we only have five to seven o' clock to work with our work with our team.

That's it.

Every team practices at five o' clock now.

There's pockets of the day I think that you have to problem solve where, you know, they don't have class till 9.

So, you know, it's realistic that, you know, someone can get in, watch film, you know, gets, get a workout in and I think, just making sure, I think we had a lot of success with player development at Gettysburg.

I spent a lot of time watching film with guys and that's how you get better at Division 3.

As we all know that we can't work with them year round and in the summer and in the off season.

So we have to be able to maximize the hours and minutes really within the day.

I just wanted to ask some of the questions of how have you guys maximize that time?

Is there an opportunity for them to come by the office and get work in?

And, you know, I think we've been able to problem solve that and figure that out with their schedules.

And it's been really appreciated too, by our guys.

Like, again, they're driven, they soak up information, they're knowledgeable, they want to be successful.

So they're going to be willing to do the things necessary.

Absolutely.

It makes a ton of sense when you start looking at the highly motivated, highly intelligent guys that you get to deal with every day on your roster.

I'm sure that getting them to put an extra 5 or 10 minutes or half hour or 45 minutes or hour here and there where they can squeeze it in, I'm sure that they're very motivated to do that if they can fit it into the time and the demands of the academic side of it.

And just again, one of the things that no matter what school you're at, From a Division 3 standpoint, I think one of the biggest attractions is just the ability of a student to be more than just an athlete.

Right.

And clearly at MIT, that's the case.

But I think in most Division 3 schools, the balance between the academics and sort of that extra part of college that maybe you don't get a chance to partake in if you're a Division 1 player, I think it's a big part of, as you said, the college athlete, the student athlete experience, no matter where you're at.

But I'm sure it's even more pronounced at MIT.

Yeah, absolutely, 100%.

All right, let me go back.

Before we dive into getting started with the job at mit, let's go back and tell me about the conversation, the meeting that you have to have with your guys at Gettysburg to tell them, hey, I'm taking another job.

I'm leaving the.

The job here at Gettysburg, obviously, spending a bunch of time with those guys.

And then as you said, your freshmen are coming on campus, guys that you've recruited, guys that you brought in, that presumably some of the reason at least why they came to Gettysburg is because you're the coach and you've built a relationship with them.

So just walk me through what those conversations were like and just again, the impact that it had on you emotionally.

And just what was that process like going through and having to have those conversations?

Obviously difficult.

Yeah, a lot of.

A lot of sleepless nights, you know, leading up to it, and even just kind of the decision.

And, you know, I hadn't, you know, our freshman moved to campus on Wednesday and that was the deadline that, you know, kind of MIT had said, hey, it's.

It's a couple days, you know, we're going to need to know.

And I hadn't even made a decision at that point.

I think you're still trying to fill it out.

You're still trying to talk to your mentors, you're still trying to talk it over with your wife and family and figure out what's best.

But, I mean, I love those kids in that locker room, and I've loved all the kids that have come through that Gettysburg program.

I mean, yeah, I think, you know, what I love so much about coaching is that we get to, like, embrace hard and challenges with 18 to 22 year olds.

It's such an important part of their life, and we get to watch them embrace adversity and problem solve and find ways to win.

And the Gettysburg guys did it at an unbelievable high level.

And when you get all that extra basketball, you just get extra moments and extra opportunities to spend with them.

And, you know, it was, it was really hard.

Like, you know, not only thinking about telling the current team, but thinking about life going on without you in alumni games.

Like, we were planning the 125th celebration of Gettysburg basketball and not being there to see, you know, the seven years of alums that you've built all these relationships with, and even just alums that you never coached but got close with because you had the shared purpose and connection right.

Of what Gettysburg basketball was.

So, you know, there was a lot that goes into it.

Like, we have really close faculty friends at Gettysburg, and it's a tight community and space and, you know, your son and kids have friends, too.

And I just think it all kind of just weighs on you and it was just really emotional thinking about, all right, we're about to tell all these people that we care about and that we love that, you know, we're leaving.

And that was just really hard.

And, you know, you can rehearse it a million times in your head and.

But it's, it's.

You just have to do whatever you can to, you know, get it out.

And, you know, I think you have to do right by, by the current players in the program.

And, you know, we, we had A zoom.

That was the only way we could do it.

So we had a zoom Thursday night.

You're trying to stop all the.

The powers that be and Division 3 hoops, Twitter.

It's like the gossip community is.

Is incredible at our level that everybody starts kind of finding out, and you're trying to press pause on all of that so people don't know.

And, you know, you just.

We did it over zoom.

And I think something that just, like, has stuck with me that was super impactful is we actually had a.

We have a player from Gettysburg, and he, like, got right in his car and drove right over to campus, and we just, like, spent 30 minutes together.

And, like, I love those kids.

I love that kid.

Like, it was just, you know, while everybody was sad and, you know, everybody handles it differently.

Like, they understood, and they were just, like, really happy for our family.

And I think that even made you more emotional of, like, oh, my God, these kids are incredibly mature.

To think that, like, they.

They get the big.

What we're.

What we're trying to, you know, achieve for our two boys, right?

And then our freshmen who had just moved in, they came to knock on the office door, and I got to spend some time with them.

And then, you know, I was in Gettysburg for a month prior to coming up to Cambridge, so I. I was able to see everybody on an individual level at least once before I took off.

And, you know, that was really important to me and mattered.

Again, when you build really strong relationships and you do things hard together, it's, you know, it's just.

It's why we do what we do, and it was really special.

And to be able to kind of get that individual goodbye, I think would have been really difficult to not have had that opportunity, because these guys changed my life.

And I was very clear with everybody in that MIT process.

Like, I'm not here.

If the guys at Gettysburg didn't commit to our program and buy in and, you know, give us max effort every single day and be value added in our community.

Like, mit, the number one school in the world, doesn't even consider me as a candidate if it's not for those players, right?

So I'm forever indebted to them and to the alums for helping us build the program back up.

And, you know, like, you know, we are who we surround ourselves with.

And, you know, I've just been really fortunate to surround myself with great people, and it's.

It's led me to this opportunity where we felt like we could give, you know, our two boys and, and our immediate family, you know, a pretty unbelievable life.

And that's, you know, what it's all about.

So clearly, in the conversations that you had and just you talking to me and just knowing what it takes to build a program and build the kind of relationships that you're talking about, right, you have, over the course of your time there, you build the program, right?

You start with the base and you put the pieces on top of it, and.

And eventually you get to a point where you're making an NCAA tournament and you've built all the relationships, not just with your players, but with the school community and faculty and administration, everything that goes along with that.

And then, boom, now you're in a new job.

And not only are.

Are you in a new job, but you're in a position where you're taking the job very late in the process for figuring out, what is this first team that I'm going to coach?

What does it look like?

You're not.

You're not going to be getting anybody in as a recruit when you're coming into MIT in August.

That.

That's not going to happen.

So you're basically starting from, hey, I already had this.

I already had this house built.

Now I've got to start again, and I've got to put.

I. I got to put the first block in place.

So as you start looking at the program and you get to Cambridge and you.

You get on campus and you start meeting with your players, you start talking about it, what's the first thing or two that you want to do that you think is really, really important in order to get off on the right foot?

What's the first one or two things that when you got there, you're like, I got to get these things done.

Yeah, you know, I think you got to start, like, with end in mind.

And I think for us, you know, we wanted to build, you know, Boston's most elite college basketball program.

And, you know, I think, you know, we take a lot of pride in, like, being in the city, and there's so many elite programs in the city.

We have so much respect for that.

But we wanted to be, you know, the model program in the city.

We wanted to be the model program of developing our people, and we wanted to strive for excellence just like they do, you know, at mit, in the labs, in the classroom, in their research and their projects.

And I think, you know, right away the first thing I did was, you know, which was unique when, when we met with the team, we invited all of their families on a Zoom.

So it was my wife, our two sons, and everybody's.

All the players and their parents.

And I think that was unique and a little different.

And, you know, that's just, like, who we are, who me and my wife are.

That's.

That's who we are as our family.

Like, our boys are at practice, they're at the scores table, they're in the locker room.

Like, we wanted them to feel like they have a community, and there was going to be belonging and there was going to be this, like, really strong.

We were going to develop this culture of, like, we.

We got you and we're going to take care of you, and we're going to give you the very best student athlete experience.

And it's going to start with the person first, and we were going to invest in the person more than anyone else.

And, you know, after that, I. I think, like, the first thing was, like, I was FaceTiming everybody on the team once a week, like, whatever fit their class schedule.

I was on a FaceTime with them for a month until I got to campus.

And when I got to campus, like, if I needed to walk, I got a class or continue to do that or meet with them one on one, whether it was 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 15.

We were doing that because there wasn't a Runway.

Like, we didn't have a spring or summer to get to know the players on a personal level, so we had to do it as fast as we could.

So I think the basketball piece we were just going to roll with, whatever we were going to do at Gettysburg, like we were going to do, we didn't have really a lot of time to pivot.

You know, we got hired at the end of August.

You know, my first day was the end of September.

The second day I was on campus, we had practice, so there wasn't a Runway there.

So how we were going to really get to know the guys, asked about their MIT experience, you know, what they expected out of our coaching staff, what they needed from us.

And, you know, we just kept trying to end every conversation is like, how can we help you?

Like, how can we be better for you?

How can we make this experience better for you?

So I think that was really everything that we were just fixated on, just right away was the people in the program getting to know them, them getting to know us, you know, and obviously the trust is.

Is ongoing, right?

Like, we've had 41 practices.

That's not a lot of practices to build trust.

And we played 11 games.

It's.

That's Not a lot.

Right?

You know, at Gettysburg, I coach the same guys for four straight years.

You go in that locker room, they knew, they knew you, you knew them.

And like, we have to build that up here.

And I think just continuing to stay cognizant and reflective and reminding everybody that, you know, this is going to be a process.

And then I'd say the second thing that we did was like, these are our standards, these are our expectations, this is who we're going to be on and off the court.

And every meeting that we had leading up to us being on campus as a team, we were constantly reminding them.

Every slide deck started with, these are the standards, these are the expectations.

And we're going to kind of continue to work on that together.

It's not going to be perfect and we're learning that now.

But I think that was really what we were just like trying to lay the groundwork of is, you know, we've seen it, we've seen what it looks like, right?

When it's finished, we have a pretty good blueprint.

But, you know, this is a different animal.

Like, it's got to be different.

We have to be adaptable.

We have to figure some things out.

So.

But again, investing in our people, investing in the culture and kind of having the end in mind of, you know, where we want this thing to ultimately go.

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Were some of the things that the players told you when you first got a chance to walk around campus with them.

When you're on those zooms, what were some things that they said, hey, this is what we need from our coaching staff.

This is what we're looking for.

This is something that we'd like to see.

I don't know if upgrade is the right word, but what's.

What were some things that they were looking for?

I think just intentionality.

I think with everything that we do kind of was like the biggest theme of like, hey, if we get, if we get two hours, like, you know, we want it to feel like we're Improving and we're growing and we're developing and you know, we wanted more skill development stuff and you know, we're very conceptual and kind of how we play.

So it was going to be natural that some of that skill development stuff was, was going to find its way in there.

But I think they wanted more, you know, like opportunities for us to be around and watch film and you know, as a team or individually or be available for guys to get shots up or you know, hey, just like, you know, coach you around for a coffee.

And you know, we, we do this thing called mining for gold where every week we have, including staff, it's a one on one meal and we have a home team and an away team and the home team has to reach out to the away team and they have to set it up on your calendar and we do it as a staff too.

So I think that was some of the stuff that they wanted was like feeling like they were a team, feeling that they were connected with each other.

Right.

The city can be kind of a unique dynamic.

Um, you know, so I, I, I think making them feel like when they were in our facility, in our spaces, you know, we, we kind of were intentional, purposeful with our plan and with our culture.

So you know, I think just making sure like practice flowed.

They felt like there was improvement.

Everything made sense with kind of how, you know, what we were, how we were playing or, or the drills that we were doing.

You know, again, like these, these guys are like super smart.

So I think they know when it's like fluff and not right.

So like, you know, they want to feel like they're, they're getting better.

It's the same thing in the classroom.

And I think the biggest thing is like, you know, what our guys do in the classroom is incredibly hard.

Like it's, you can't deny that.

It's, it's a really hard academic experience that I have the utmost respect for them.

So when they come to us, like, we need to make it the best part of their day.

Like there needs to be an element of fun.

We also need to redefine fun, but we need to celebrate them.

Right?

You know, we need to try and cultivate an environment of joy and where guys can celebrate each other, where they feel like they can show up and be their best selves every day.

And those are things that, you know, we're continuing to work on and, and striving for to make it the best environment we can for them.

So from an adaptability standpoint, right, you come in and you don't have a tremendous sense of what you have, what guys can do, what it looks like, obviously, you're not watching every MIT game last year as you're coaching at Gettysburg.

So what's the process like for learning your team from a basketball standpoint?

Obviously, you're watching film of what they did last year, both collectively as a group, but then individually to kind of get a feel for them.

And then, as you said, you've had 41 practices, so I'm sure after practice 41, you have a little bit better feel for what you have than you did at practice number one.

But just in terms of your own adaptability, like you said, you're hitting the ground running.

You almost have to go back and fall on, hey, this is what we were doing before, because I don't really know yet what I have or what adjustments I need to make, but just talk a little bit about the adaptability in terms of how you want to play versus what your personnel dictates that you're able to do.

If that question makes sense.

Yeah, no doubt.

So I think even before personnel or strategy, it was, you know, we have three practice facilities because we all practice five to seven, right?

So, you know, volleyball's in season.

They're on our main floor.

So we're in different spaces, like, every day.

So it's trying to feel out the spaces to make them feel like you can have this, like, really tight, intimate, brotherhood environment and practice.

And a lot of our spaces are just, like, open spaces, and you kind of have the student body coming and going.

So, you know, it was kind of learning and figuring that out, like, you're going to laugh.

But I bought a headset and I had a microphone, like, just project the teaching.

And.

And I think that was, like, the first thing that we had to learn was, like, how do we cultivate an environment where we can teach and our guys can actually learn?

Like, can we have some verbal and visual cues that we can create?

So, like, before we even say anything, we just yell eyes now.

And the whole gym yells, eyes.

And we get really close together so we can teach and talk.

And I think that's been really great for our guys to learn, but that took us a couple of weeks to try and figure out because you're just, like, trying to, like, this is.

This is crazy.

Like, people are coming and going.

People are watching this practice.

Like, this is nuts, right?

Like, and then we don't have a scoreboard or shot clocks in those two out of the three facilities.

So we got about you know, we're.

We're trying to problem solve and fundraise so we can get some of that and just trying to be, like, intentional of, like, we want to be able to play fast and be efficient and practice in the professionalism.

So, like, what does that look like, right, without a scoreboard, without a shot clock, like two massive pieces that you use in a game.

And then, you know, I think just the adaptability is like, you know, asking guys a lot of questions, too, of like, hey, where are you comfortable?

Like, are you comfortable in the action that we're running?

You know, we do a lot of, like, conceptual stuff.

Is it a ball screen?

Is it get action?

Is it handoffs?

Like, what do you like, like, you need to tell me what you're comfortable with.

Obviously, I can look at synergy and analytics, but now I want to know from you.

I want you to have a little bit of a say in this, right?

Like, let's be collaborative, you know, like, kind of talking about just empty stuff.

And how do you want to communicate if we're going to flip this screen or set this maybe flat?

Like, those are just kind of examples.

And, you know, also just like, hey, like, was this part of what you guys discussed or some of the teaching in previous years?

And.

And if not, that's okay because everybody does things differently.

But, you know, obviously our language is going to be different, so just raise your hand, communicate with me, make some eye contact just so you know, we can help you and kind of get us into more just, like, appropriate spaces and situations, right?

So I think it was a lot of just, like, questions kind of early on, and it's still just, like, ongoing of, you know, we're trying to play off, too.

So, like, if we haven't talked about that in the past, like, just let me know, or, hey, are scouting reports different than what they've been in the past?

Because we're really big on knowing personnel, and we're going to change our coverages based on personnel.

And if you're not trained and used to that, like, you know, I don't want to freak out and get upset.

You know, like, it's probably natural I'm going to like in a game, because it's just.

That's just who I am.

But just communicate a better way for us to get you that information, right?

So I think, you know, I think the adaptability piece is you're just constantly trying to find things that stick, right?

Like when you've coached the same group for so many years, you know, it works for them, right.

There's that trust there.

And I think a lot of it is, like, these guys just trying to trust us.

Like, hey, we have your best interests in mind.

Like, when we ask for feedback, it's not a hypothetical, it's a real feedback, because our.

Our job is to be impactful, and it's to help you, and it's to help the program succeed and thrive.

So I think that's kind of just been, you know, not.

Not a barrier, but a little bit of a challenge that we're just, like, all working through is like, you know, provide us the proper feedback so we can put you guys in the best situations to be successful.

For you.

Going from a program that you had been there for a number of years and the teaching points that you've made, Right?

Yeah.

You have a group of freshmen who's new that maybe hasn't heard those teaching points, but you have guys who have gone through your program that you can say, hey, we're going to do this particular ball screen coverage, and guys, know what you want, and your upperclassmen can pull your freshman aside and say, hey, here's what he's looking.

You know, all that kind of stuff.

And so you're almost going back to square one from a teaching point of view.

So for you, did you find that to be refreshing in any way in that you had to kind of go back and sort of figure out again, hey, I got to make sure that I'm on point with what I'm teaching, because it's no longer just.

I can just give that one keyword, right?

It's.

I got to really go through what it is that I want these guys to do in these different situations or with a particular technique or whatever.

So did you kind of have to go back and almost.

I don't want to say relearn it yourself, but rethink about how you were teaching it to make sure you were going over the details that maybe you could have taken for granted because your guys had already learned them and they were kind of teaching themselves of that again.

Yeah, yeah, no doubt.

I mean, that's.

That's a great question.

And, yeah, I mean, I think that was just kind of like, really early on, I think, realizing, like, you're looking around and it's like, our staff is new, the players are new.

Right?

Like, that.

That was.

That was definitely, you know, a real challenge that I think I took for granted the past couple years when it's just, you can say, like, hey, this is the coverage, right?

And everybody can go out and execute it, and you can have somebody coach through it.

And I think you just have to remind yourself, like, this is, this is where we're at and this is what they need of you, like, in this moment.

But I think to your point, yeah, like, it was fun.

It is refreshing, like, you know, the teaching, the detail of everything.

And there are moments where, like, I know that I have to be better and I have to, you know, hold myself more accountable and realize, like, hey, man, like, you know, you always got to be on as a head coach, right?

Like, you can't take it off.

But I think we all have moments in practice where we know, like, hey, this is great to be player led at this moment.

And I got to continue to remind myself.

It's like, this is new for everybody.

So there really aren't any moments that you can take off as a head coach because you're literally teaching everything from, you know, how we enter the facility to how we ball screen coverage or, you know, how we're going to attack drop coverage and, you know, what we're going to do on a post entry and post moves, and, you know, we can go on and on with that stuff.

So, you know, I think that's an area that I'm still trying to, like, improve and work at is.

I think you forget sometimes.

I think as a coach, like, just a mental kind of exhaustion that kind of comes with that too, of just, you know, breaking everything down.

But it is, it has been really fun and unique.

Just kind of, you know, see something like, you know, I always say, like, the climb is the fun part.

I really believe in that.

And, you know, I think when you've seen something, like, all the way through, you know, you can have these moments of like, man, this is, this is different than what I've experienced.

But you just have to continue to remind yourself of, like, I know what it looks like when it gets to the end, and it's.

It's a pretty unbelievable feeling.

And it's really cool to, to pull another group with you.

I think that's what this is all about in our journey.

So, you know, it's, it's.

It's been fun to continue to kind of teach that, the detail of it.

And I feel like it's helped me kind of evolve and learn and grow too.

Like, I'm.

I'm watching different videos and different ideas too, as a coach, just different methodologies of ways to get that point across too, to, to these guys.

So stereotypically, right, the extraordinary students that you have at mit.

A lot of times people say, well, they have a lot of questions.

They always want to know the why.

When you tell them, hey, this is what we're going to do, they're not just going to blindly accept and say, okay, great, you're the coach.

We're going to do it.

They oftentimes want to know why.

So have you found that to be the case that.

Not that they're questioning you and your basketball knowledge, but just because they have such a thirst for knowledge, they want to know and understand the philosophy behind what it is that you're doing?

Have you found that?

And what are some of the things that players have asked you questions about on the floor that have maybe made you even think about how you're explaining it or what you're doing, if that, again, makes sense.

Well, I think the biggest thing is just trying to repurpose some of the questions to, you know, one, you obviously want to have a healthy environment, right, where guys feel like it's safe and they can ask questions.

And, you know, our kind of big thing is, like, you know, we don't want to think in hypotheticals, right?

Like, we don't want to think in, like, if it happens, we'll work through it.

But, you know, this is the teaching point.

This is the why for this.

Like, let's not think about if the defense is, like, it all of a sudden, like, changes what they're going to do halfway through the play, right?

Like, let's get really good at this, and then we'll progress up to that.

So I think I don't have any, like, specific examples, but I think it was more of just like, the hypothetical piece, right?

And I think we're playing very conceptually, offensively, where, you know, the ball goes here now you can do A, B, C or D. And if you do those things, all of a sudden, you can get to EFG or H. And, you know, I think when we explain it, it's like, this is.

This is what the expectations are in this moment.

But don't worry about something that really has, like, a very small chance of actually happening and developing some, like, paralysis by analysis, right?

Like, as an example of just play free, and I think play loose.

And I think that's really what we're trying to have them do, because we are playing differently than I think they've experienced in the past.

And everybody sees the game in a different way.

It's natural, right?

When there's a coaching change.

So we want them to have some, like, freedom within that.

Right?

And to be able to play loose, so to kind of eliminate some of those questions, you know, that are asked and just kind of be more, I think, fixated on some of the details within, within the teaching, if that makes sense.

Does.

How do you balance the freedom to make those decisions and yet continue as a coach to help them improve their decision making when you're putting them in situations?

So what are some things in practice that you do to.

Yeah, we want you to play free, but we also want you making good decisions within that freedom.

So how do you train that?

What's your philosophy, practice wise as a coach, to try to help them with that.

So.

So we do like a lot of small side of games with some advantage stuff and some constraints.

But I think, you know, the way we build up in practice, like we're very specific from, you know, how we're passing, how we're dribbling, how we're pivoting, how we're finishing, how we're generating shots, because I think we, we want their.

And I think their brains kind of can operate in that way.

And that workflow of this all makes sense, right?

Like we're playing off to.

We're attacking a drive this way.

All right, If I don't have the finish now, we've all of a sudden progressed to a shooting drill where we're getting these spray opportunities, right?

You know, kind of how we're working off of, you know, dribble at us or dribble away from us and kind of the timing and, and how we, you know, view that.

And then we do, like, you know, early on we were doing a lot of build ups.

You know, we were playing a lot.

2 on 1, 3 on 2, 4 and 3, 4 on 2, full court, 5 on 3, full court.

With some constraints just so they can kind of start like reading the defense and seeing the next, next play.

And, and then I also think, you know, like, you know, you play three on three in the half court, you can play four on four and a half court.

When we're playing five on five, you know, this is what we're looking for out of this.

I thought we had a really good practice last week.

Like, we really just slowed it down and we kind of just walked through our offense with the defense out there.

And again, just like taking guys through a lot of reads, we show that in film.

I think we're really intentional about, you know, what we're looking at in film.

It's not just like a bunch of random clips for 20 minutes.

It's.

It's Very intentional with some of the read and react stuff.

If, you know, if they slide under, we have stop behind opportunities.

If they lock in trouble wrapping it.

But I think we, we know what we want to be really good at.

We try and eliminate, we try and give them like, you know, an example is, is dribble handoffs, right?

There's, there's a lot of different ways to attack a dribble handoff.

If someone goes under, you stop behind opportunities, you can re screen it.

If somebody's in a lock and trail, you can wrap that, wrap it to the rim.

You can also like circle cut underneath and the big can flip it and hand off.

Now you're attacking the baseline again.

Or you can fight pressure with pressure and bounce off and then we can dribble up underneath, right?

So there's a lot of different things that we can do.

So, you know, we as a staff have to figure out, all right, like what are a couple simple reads for an under and then an over that we can become really good at and just like teach and stress, right.

And then I think there's also the freedom within the play per player, right.

Like, I really believe in this, like explore.

The jungle analogy is like you and I might could go to the jungle and we could see we'd be in the same jungle, but you and I could see five totally different things in the first minute.

And I think that's the same way as player personnel.

So, you know, while everyone can be running the same offense and system, everybody is capable of doing very different things within that.

So like we talked about in dribble handoffs, like we have a couple guys, right, like whether they go under or not, like you're wrapping it to the rim.

And then we have some other guys who, yeah, like you can break off from what's dribble underneath and get you a step up ball screen into a snake.

And so I think that's also part of it is like as a coach, we have to identify what each player is capable of handling and then we give them the freedom to explore and say, hey, for you it's just these two, but you can do four and you tell us what you like the best.

And I think that's when you can like transform your offense because the players feel like they have ownership over that.

Yeah, it makes sense, right?

The more you get to know your personnel and you understand what they're good at and what they like and, and how they play.

Yeah, you want to be able to put them in the most advantageous positions that you possibly can, and then give them the freedom to make those reads within what their capabilities are.

Makes complete sense.

Would you say since you started, do you feel like you're further along offensively or defensively?

Which one has come easier for your team?

You know, I. I would say we're kind of neutral.

You know, I. I think, you know, for us, we're just.

We're working on sustaining, you know, the game plan, I think, for 40 minutes and.

And sticking to it, maintaining leads, maintaining kind of that belief in.

In max effort and.

And trying to finish strong.

Like, I think it's culturally for us, um, I think we've had spurts in a lot of games where one side has looked really good and then the other.

I think we've.

We've really worked hard, I think, in terms of just trying to scheme and strategize to kind of be disruptive defensively a little bit.

You know, I think we're trying to figure out personnel offensively, so I don't know if any one side is, like, further along than the other.

I thought earlier, you know, it was kind of defense, and we.

We could hang our hat on that.

And I think we're still just kind of growing and trying to learn, and I know that's a lot of coach speak, but I would just say we're pretty neutral, I think, with.

With where we're at on both sides of the ball.

And I think a lot of it is we've just kind of given equal, you know, time and energy to both, because, again, like, we got here at the end of September, and, you know, this is a new group with us, and we have to coach, you know, both sides equally as hard.

But I think, like, you know, defensively is.

Has kept us in.

In a lot of games and has given us some opportunities, you know, that we might not have had in the past.

And, you know, now it's on us.

We got to finish.

We got to finish the job and learn how to kind of maintain those leads and sustain our energy levels.

Well, that makes sense.

I was just curious if you.

Maybe you, from a philosophical standpoint, said, hey, we got to take care of our offense first.

We got to take care of our defense first.

But I think it makes a lot of sense to kind of put a both again when you came in, not necessarily knowing, hey, what exactly do we have?

You kind of got to put an equal emphasis on both of them.

Make.

Makes a ton of sense to me.

What about from a culture standpoint?

What's the one thing, if you had to point to some aspect of the program culturally that's come together really well.

When you think about an early success from a culture standpoint, what's one thing that you can point to that you think has really worked well so far?

Yeah, I mean, I think just making every day, you know, feel like it's enjoyable for the guys, you know, making them feel like it's going to be productive, we're going to be efficient with our time.

You know, there's intent behind, I think, why we do what we do and how we do what we do.

I think that's like, been really just kind of, like, important for us to make sure that they feel that.

I think that was a lot of what they kind of talked about in the, in the fall, in the preseason and their expectations.

So, you know, I think, you know, culturally, you know, again, we're, we're still trying to grow and get better there and, and become more connected.

You know, I think have some shared responsibility and accountability to what we're trying to accomplish here with, with MIT basketball and, and, you know, really for us, you know, as, as a staff, like, kind of help and guide them and, and lead them in that.

Um, but I think we've, we've done a really, you know, I, I, I think I've seen too, just like, the community building within the group, the closeness.

I think, you know, our, our guys were already really close, I think, off the court, but, you know, making them feel this, like, shared purpose and connection.

Like, we talk a lot about, you know, there's, there's no other school.

Like, these three letters, they really, really mean something when they're across our chest.

Like, you know, this is the number one school in the world, and what they do is incredibly hard.

And that's our superpower that, you know, our guys are, you know, running their own startups and they're doing all this undergrad research and they're interviewing at Goldman and, you know, we have someone working at Apple and with Oklahoma City Thunder, like, it's amazing, like, all within our team, like our small community.

And I think that's what we're really trying to hone in on culturally and take that next step is like, this is our superpower, that every time we step out onto the court, no one else in the country has been doing hard the way that our guys have, and we really believe that.

And, you know, I think that's something that we're really trying to tap into, I think, to be able to sustain those energy levels, you know, when it matters most.

In close games to finish people off.

Talking about just again, the type of players that you have and the type of people that you have in your program.

Obviously the lifeblood of what you're going to do moving forward is the recruiting process, right?

And so you come to a new place and obviously mit, your ability to recruit pretty much anywhere in the world with the three letters MIT opens up this whole world, right, of recruiting.

And now clearly there's an academic profile that eliminates a lot of players.

But when you're talking about the best of the best in terms of students and guys who are capable of playing at your level, being able to recruit nationally, what does that look like?

What's the adjustment been like for you and what has the process been?

Because clearly for people who don't know, anybody who's a coach at the Division 3 level knows that the recruiting is non stop.

It's not like you're like, hey, we're in the season, we could put recruiting on the, on the table.

You know, we could set that over here on the shelf until, until March when the season's over, it's ongoing.

So just talk about getting the job late, trying to get the recruiting process going, the ability to recruit nationally and even internationally.

Just lay out what the process has been like for you at mit.

Yeah, so I mean, I think the recruiting, you know, has been a whirlwind and you know, I had a little understanding of it going in.

You know, when I was head coach at Vassar, we recruited quite often, you know, against mit.

And that's kind of where Larry and I, you know, developed a relationship.

You'd see him on the road, you know, he'd kind of, kind of share with you what was going on or let you know, hey, this guy's probably not getting in.

So you call.

And so we, we had that previous relationship, right, going into this process and, you know, it was really late.

And I think, you know, what was funny is, you know, when Larry and I connected after I got the job, he's like, hey, what you doing next weekend?

You mean in five days?

He's like, yeah, like there's like four kids visiting on Friday.

Like you think you get up here.

So as I told my sister, like, dude, we're getting in the car, we're driving eight hours from Gettysburg to Cambridge and we're going to go recruit and take these kids around campus that we haven't even seen ourselves really.

But I think you just, you know, you're relying a lot on your network, like in this class, right?

Like, you're making a ton of phone calls, you're reaching out to AU coaches, high school coaches, like, anybody, you know.

But I think, you know, one of the unique things that, you know, I wasn't really prepared for, I should have been, is like, this is everybody's first choice.

Like, this is.

Everybody wants mit, which is really exciting and unique.

And I think was one of the things that really drew me here too, is that, you know, this, this is just a first choice school because the opportunities that MIT provides to our students, right?

So, you know, I remember, like, getting on the phone with like, the first kid.

Someone gave me his number and was like, hey, this kid really wants MIT and he's gonna apply.

And I'm trying to give him the spiel and talk to me.

He's like, coach, like, if I get in, I'm coming.

I'm just letting you know.

So, like, I love it.

Selling me.

And, you know, that was just different for me, you know, whereas, you know, you're kind of like in these, a lot of these recruiting battles in the arms race of Division 3 and talking about facilities and gear and trips and experiences where, you know, MIT really recruits itself.

And now it's on us to identify who we think is going to be the right cultural fit for what we're trying to build here.

I think the other unique is we don't have early decisions, so we have nothing that's binding.

Everything at MIT is early action.

So, you know, we will know in a week what our class is going to look like here.

Which, you know, is.

There's a lot of anxiety that goes with that, but it's exciting at the same time because we're really excited about the possibility of it.

But I think, you know, from, for me, and, you know, my perspective is you're already going to get an incredibly driven, intrinsically motivated person, right?

Like, they want to seek knowledge and they want to learn.

That's why, you know, they have an opportunity to be admitted by mit.

MIT is an incredibly collaborative environment.

I think there's this idea that, you know, it's cutthroat.

It's not cutthroat like some of these really other high academic STEM schools.

I think we're really unique in that, and I think our guys will even share that as they visited some of these other high academic STEM institutions and it was really cutthroat.

And like, people wanted to know your ranking and your SAT at mit.

Everybody's smart, smartest people in the world, right?

Like, no one, no one stands out and they're really collaborative of how they work together to build these unbelievable projects and ideas and do research because they're really committed to solving, like the world's problems.

And I think that's just so impressive and unique about our community is that we get a very community invested, collaborative person.

And then, you know, I think for us, like from a basketball perspective, and I think, you know, we're not going to change much about how we kind of attacked, I think some of the intangibles at Gettysburg because it really worked for us is, you know, talent obviously, you know, kind of sets the bar.

But like, you have had to win in high school and we want you to have won at a high level.

And I think that was really important for us when we really got it going, you know, at Gettysburg, those first couple of years, we had a lot of guys in those locker rooms that understood what it takes to win, the winning habits, the behaviors, you know, the, the unseen hours, you know, staying after practice and watching extra film and taking care of your body and sleep and nutrition, like all those things.

So I think that's really important for us as we vet in the process of.

Everybody who wants to be at MIT is like, we want them to have had a winning experience and we're, and we're not going to sacrifice or compromise that from a talent perspective.

And I think we're, we're pretty strong willed in that.

Um, so, you know, I think just that's, that's really what we're looking for from, from a basketball piece, because we're going to get it from, you know, that the, the personal piece with, with admissions.

Here you have a kid that is being recruited from across the country, somewhere on the west coast, let's say.

How often do you see that kid play in person?

Are there kids that, as you move forward or you think about the history of MIT with Coach Anderson, are there kids that you may have only seen on film that end up being a part of your recruiting class or how do you envision that?

I'm again, just understanding what budgets are like at the Division 3 level and your national, again, reach as an institution.

How does that work?

How does that work from a basketball standpoint, you knowing what you're getting as a basketball player?

Yeah.

Now I'm not going to share budget information.

I want my sports supervisor to get in this class.

Like we're not getting on a plane, like we're not going anywhere, you know, from September to December to see anybody.

So a lot of that has just kind of been dissecting film and trusting the people, you know, that are close to you.

You know, and I think that was important in this process.

If we got late, like, you know, I'm reaching out to the people that I trust the most about this class and making sure that, like, I'm getting the right feedback that I'm going to need to build it than year one.

You know, I, you know, I think again, what's unique to, again, we're, we're everybody's first choice.

So, you know, what's different for me is like, we would be trying to finish a class, you know, the past couple years, like April, May, like, we're already talking at 20, 27 in December.

So we're already on to our next recruiting class.

Our assistant's done a great job kind of working through that.

And, you know, we're going to start, you know, our, our outreach has started.

We'll get guys to campus for visits, you know, February and March.

And then we as a staff, you know, we'll start to, you know, think about who's really important to us in this next class.

And, you know, we're, we're able to go really wherever we want to go from, you know, April to, you know, October and that kind of cycle without much restrictions.

So, you know, we'll, we'll start, you know, going out to AU events in April and in May, and then, you know, June is a huge month with scholastic events and the Federation.

So, you know, we're definitely going to be on the West Coast.

And I think the way that we're going to attack it is pretty regionally amongst our staff.

So, you know, if I have the West Coast, I have the west coast.

But I think there's a lot of, like, really strong stem pockets that we have to, you know, attack.

You have the Midwest, you, Florida, you have Texas.

We don't really get anybody from New England, so we're not really kind of fixated on that.

It's more, you know, can we be really good in the Midwest?

Can we really attack Texas and Florida?

You know, what is, you know, obviously the west coast has been great to us, so we have to make sure we're, we're still recruiting that, you know, really hard.

So I think we have a really good plan of, of how we want to go out.

But you know, I would say, guys, that we really like, like, we're seeing four to five probably events.

So, you know, you times that by three to four times.

And then we have a great prospect camp in August that typically attracts, you know, over, you know, 200 potential recruits of all class years.

And we're going to continue to do that to make sure that that process, you know, stays running at a high level for us.

What's your ideal roster size?

How many guys do you like to have on the roster?

And then how does that kind of play into the roster that you inherited?

Yeah, so I, you know, I think our roster's a little unique right now.

We had a couple guys kind of battling back from injuries.

So, you know, we have 16 guys on a roster, but you know, at times we only had like 10 or 11 guys practice, which, you know, is really difficult when you're building culture and you're trying to build standards and sustaining energy levels because everybody's literally in every rep, right?

It's, it's a lot to ask of guys.

So, you know, we're, we definitely want to increase that.

Like, I think here at MIT, like, we want to be around 18 and 19 guys.

I think a lot of that is just again, that academic rhythm of, you know, the reality is like our guys are going to have to pull an all nighter.

Like, there's just, there's no going around it.

There's so, you know, if some guy's tired, like somebody needs to be fresh that next day.

And I think we're just thinking about, you know, numbers, right, and playing that game.

So, you know, the more bodies I think we have, just the better.

You know.

Also, like, we're in a really unique situation where our junior class is, is nine guys, which is a lot.

So we're going to graduate nine a year from now.

So we have to make sure that we're prepping and maintaining the health, you know, of the roster as you build it up.

So I also think it's an exciting time too, like for the current group, right?

Like we have nine, you know, nine juniors, you know, and they make up kind of a bulk of our culture and what we're trying to accomplish.

And you know, we're going to have a lot of continuity from this year to next.

But then there's also that excitement, I think, and how we're able to pitch it into recruiting, that there's going to be a lot of opportunities to play and you know, within the next two years when they graduate.

Right.

So I think it works on both ends for what we're trying to do.

What's the coolest side project one of your guys is involved in right now?

That's great.

Our guys have, like, it's, it's amazing.

Like we have we have two guys who got offered Goldman Sachs internships.

One of our guys is going to be machine learning and the AI engineer for the Oklahoma City funder, which is pretty amazing.

And like, what was super cool was Sam Presti called me to talk about him, which was amazing because he's an Emerson alum.

So, like, I had worked at Emerson, but now we're like new Mac rivals.

So you're able to jab a little bit, but you really can't because they're the Fenning champs and they're just, just destroying everybody right now.

But I think that was just like, really cool for him to have that kind of opportunity.

One of our guys is working for Apple.

Two of our guys have a, have a startup data analytics company where they got $25,000 in seed funding for AI technology.

And, and, and kind of just to reduce the amount of data that people see to make it cleaner.

In college basketball, I think is maybe the best way I can explain it.

But they've.

They're working with major Division 1 programs that done stuff with Florida, which is pretty unbelievable.

You know, we've had guys work on policy in, in Capitol Hill.

One of our guys this summer.

I mean, I could go on and on, as you can tell.

I like talking about these guys.

They're impressive.

But he worked act on the Ukrainian war.

He was in Finland for the summer.

So, you know, our guys do, do a lot of like, just like unbelievable good.

And it's, it's really neat, like hearing them talk about it like one of our guys.

I wish I could do him justice, but he does a lot of stuff with nanotransmitters.

But the, the language and verbiage he uses, like, I can't even regurgitate it.

So I just.

But he's.

It's amazing.

Like, it's.

It really is.

And then just like, the expectation of, like, having an elite, you know, men's basketball program on top of all of that is like, you got to tip your hat to them.

I mean, they give everything that they have to, to every area, you know, every day.

But, you know, we have an MIT sports lab.

You know, we have the Sloan Sports Analytics Conference every year.

Like Tom Brady was on campus in the fall.

They've done stuff for Ferrari.

But, you know, our, A lot of our guys work really closely with the NBA and FIFA with sports analytics, which is pretty amazing.

Yeah, that's cool stuff.

And again for you, right, Just to be able to have those conversations with your guys, I'm sure you're learning stuff every Day, you're like, what?

Hey, what that?

You know, hey, I gotta, I gotta learn more about that.

Can you show me?

Can you teach me a little bit more about that?

It's almost again, you get to flip the, you get to flip the process on you.

Well, everything at MIT is in numbers, so I still haven't figured everything out.

No building has a name except a number, and every class is numbered.

So, you know, our guys like, coach, can you meet me at like, you know, 35, 20?

And I was like, come on.

Like, I don't know if I can remember numbers.

I can remember names.

And, you know, I have like, you know, 1602 or 6.08.

And I'm like, just, is it physics?

Like, are we taking computer science?

Engineering?

Just help me out to start and then I'll word associate later on.

But I think that's like, again, it just goes back.

MIT's culture is so unique and special that I'm excited about the culture that we're going to be able to build because of the culture that is already established here just on campus.

As a student, tell me about the.

Challenge of your family not being with you here for the first couple months at the beginning of the season and then just how that process has gone in terms of just figuring out the dynamics of.

They're still in Gettysburg, you're in Cambridge.

The process of where are we going to live?

When are they going to come up?

Just walk me through that piece of it.

Well, my wife is, she's certainly the MVP in all of this and, you know, wouldn't be able to have done, you know, what we did if it wasn't for her and just I think her strength and, and to take this on with, with our two boys.

But yeah, anybody who's, who's a parent, it's incredibly difficult to go that long.

Like, I mean, even I just think about being on the road recruiting.

Like, I'm excited to go home and be with my kids.

And it's just, it's been a really, just, it's, it's been a long, tough kind of process.

You know, just, you miss them.

You miss kind of the rhythm, the outlet.

You know, my five year old and I are super close.

He loves basketball season.

You know, he's, he's a lot of meals and practices.

And I think that's been just a tough rhythm for both of us to feel like we're not having that debt, you know, father, son, bond connection right now.

But I think we knew going in like this was going to Be a challenge.

We also, we sold our house within two days.

We didn't think that was going to happen.

So I think we had prepared for our family to stay in Gettysburg, you know, through Christmas, you know, wanting our five year old to finish school there with his friends.

Our one year old was in a great situation in daycare.

My wife works remote, so she was able to continue to do that.

And you know, we're lucky my family is here.

So, you know, my mom lives 25 minutes from, from, from campus, so we're all going to move in with her, which I'm excited that when they're here.

So it's not just kind of me hanging out in my mom's basement, like I'm back in high school again.

But you know, I, I think honestly, just like the hardest, like emotional piece of this is like, I think we all experience this is, you know, it's really hard to think about, like life is going to go on without you.

And I think for me at the start was like really difficult is, you know, like we, we loved Gettysburg.

Like, we loved those kids that we had an opportunity to welcome into our home and that our boys looked up to and adored.

Right.

And spent time with.

And you know, my family staying there was really hard thinking about, you know, they're still, you know, our son goes to daycare on campus and you know, you're, you're still there for a little bit, but you're not coach and the guys want to see you, but you're coaching another team and you know, you're trying to move on and be where your feet are and be impactful where you are.

But you know, when you call home, you're calling back to the place you just poured your soul in and heart for seven years.

And you know, you have friends there that you know, your, your wife and your children are spending time with.

And I think that has just been the emotional, just like challenges, like life is going to go on without you.

It has to.

I mean it's, it's just part of it.

But I think because they're still in that place where you, you know, you have a set of connection.

It was, you know, we didn't have a bad ending.

It was, it was a great ending.

It was a storybook ending for us.

And so I think just them still being there and me just trying to kind of find my way here by yourself is.

And they're a huge part of it.

Like you're, you know, I think, you know, we talk a lot about family and brotherhood within our team and that's just of kind, kind of who our, who our family is in general.

So I think that's just been really hard just to, you know, not feel like you're, you know, being the best spouse that you can to, to help out, you know, during bedtime and pick up and drop off and you're putting a lot of strain and pressure there and not feeling like you're able to be the best dad that you can to your boys because, because you're not around.

Can't be super productive on FaceTime because the attention span is, is not long at all.

Right.

So I'm excited to, to be able to spend time with them and just get them up here.

And that's when I, I feel like I'm at my best self is when they're part of this thing.

And you know, they, they came up for a Harvard game and which was really cool.

And I actually almost sat on my 5 year old at one point during the game because he gets so fired up.

He was behind the bench and just kind of made a big play and.

But there's just so many photos of like, you know, the two of us celebrate.

He's literally mimicking the celebration.

And you know, I think as, as a dad, like, it's just really special.

And you know, one of the best pieces of advice I got throughout the whole process because we, we were concerned about this optically of what, what was this going to be like.

And you know, I remember Steve Brennan, who I work for at Babson.

He's a super close friend of mine.

And then Joe Riley, who, you know, played for, I played for at Bates and he left after my sophomore year.

He had four kids under five and went to Wesleyan and he had family in Conn.

Kid.

And I was able to really lean on him during this process because he, he went through the same thing that I went through.

Love Bates.

But had this opportunity, Wesley and got to go back home.

Right?

How often in coaching do we.

Do we get to go home, right.

And be around family and you know, but Steve Brennan just said was like our job as parents is, you know, can we provide the very best for our children?

And I think, you know, it's such a simple, simple thought and it really just has stuck and resonated and we felt like we could do that at Gettysburg.

Like we definitely did.

But I think when we really dug deeper, Massachusetts is the best public schools in the country and opportunities that we could provide for them here.

I think just continue to remind myself that we're Doing this, to be able to provide them this unbelievable opportunity and life experience and to be home and to have help and support for my family with our children, I think it's helped quell some of those emotions that you feel when they're not here and you miss them a lot.

So I can't wait to see him and, and for them just to be.

Feel like we'll be totally complete because, you know, we're just a really strong team and we're all together, so.

All right, I know the answer to this question already is going to be when my family gets here.

So I'm going to ask you to put that part of this question to the side and say to you as my final question, what milestone are you looking forward to at MIT with basketball the most?

When you look ahead and you say, I can't wait until we accomplish this, and it could be a very, very short term goal, it could be a long term goal, I want you to take it in whatever direction you want.

But when I say, what milestone are you most looking forward to, what's the first thing that jumps to mind?

I mean, I, I think just getting back to the conference tournament, and I think that's, that's really important to us.

And you know, since 1999, MIT has been every new Mac tournament and it has in the past couple years.

And I think that's kind of, you know, we need to be a staple again back in the new Mac and New England.

Right.

And then we can get nationally.

But, you know, I say that I think with more context of, I think there's something really powerful and special about being the group that is able to bring a program back.

And we've talked a lot about, like a resurgence of the program and it's a real challenge and it's really difficult and it's really hard and it's going to take everything that you have.

Right.

But I think one of the things that we keep talking to our guys about is like, when you guys come back to alumni games, yeah, you have the Final Four teams, elite A teams, and they're going to be able to stick their chest out a little bit, right.

As the two best teams in school history.

But this team right now, like, with all the challenges and the limited Runway and the coaching transition, like, this could be a team that gets to stick their chest out too, because you guys handled hard, better than anybody else.

And I think that's really special.

So to me, like, that's going to be a huge milestone.

It's like, can we fight can we work to get this program back into the new Mac tournament?

And I just think, you know, kind of drawn on some of my previous experiences is just guys that I've coached that have been part of those, like, turnarounds, like, they take a lot of pride in that.

And it's something that, you know, I think, you know, there's.

There's all these life skills and there's this connection, right?

And there's this community that's embedded in it.

And so that's, to me, the biggest milestone that we're trying to work on is just, let's get to newmac tournament.

Let's be a team that can say, hey, we had the resurgence, and, and we were part of it.

And that's what we're just trying to get the guys to buy into and really believe in.

Believe in themselves that they can do it.

Love that.

And I think it speaks to, again, what you've laid out here in terms of the blueprint for how you're going to build the program and given the guys something to shoot for, right?

Something that they can tangibly hold on to that is going to be meaningful for them, going to be meaningful for you, and going to be meaningful for the program long term.

Really well said.

All right, bj, before we get out, I want to give you a chance to share how can people connect with you?

Find out more about the program that you're building at mit, Share, email, social media, whatever you feel comfortable with.

And then after you do that, I'll jump back in and wrap things up.

Absolutely.

No, I think what's amazing about the Division 3 community, what you're doing, Mike, too, and it's not just about Division 3, but I think just small college basketball is, you know, we love to connect, we love to share, we love to learn, and, you know, I think our door, virtual doors are always open.

So, you know, if you want to reach me, you know, email me.

It's bjdnit.edu.

i love to connect with people in the coaching community and help in any way that I can and ask questions along the way, too.

So I appreciate, Mike, everything that you do for this.

I love listening to your podcast.

They're super insightful.

And I just appreciate, again, like, what you do for us, too, of, you know, giving the small college basketball community a voice, because I think that's.

That's a really just, like, important thing.

And, you know, we're.

We're really grateful to have people like you who showcase and support us.

Appreciate those kind words.

Bj.

It means a lot.

And again, it's like I always say that basketball has given me so much.

There's no way I can ever give back to the game everything that it's given me.

And if in some small way this podcast represents my little gift back to the game of basketball, I can, I can never repay the game for what it's given me.

So I appreciate the opportunity to have anyone who's willing to come on and share their story and, and share what they do and, and share the love for the game.

And that's one of the things that I've felt more strongly than anything when I talk to someone like you and the passion that you coach with.

And just again, anybody who listens to this and hears you talk and feel that love for the game, the love for your players, the love for what you do coming through the microphone.

And to me, again, that's what it's all about.

Like, I just, it's been a lifelong love affair with the game of basketball and what I get to do on here is talk to other people who have that same feeling.

And there's, there's nothing better than that.

So thank you for your time.

I wish you nothing but the best and I know that you're going to accomplish your short term and your long term goals there at MIT without questions.

So really appreciate it again tonight and to everyone who listened, thank you and we will catch you on our next episode.

Thanks.

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