original (24)

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Introduction: The Reality of Building a Business

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Building a business is not fun. It feels fun when you get to a point of success and you think, ah, I can't believe we got here. But you're in the trenches so many times and all of us go through that whatever walk of life we're in. Yeah. So for me, I, I'm literally thankful for every single problem that I've had, even for the most horrible challenges that I thought were absolutely unfair.

And because you know what it's given me, it's given me the ability to be more relatable, to be empathetic, to understand people, to influence people.

Reflecting on 2023: Lessons Learned

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Welcome back to purpose driven FinTech, happy new year. And thank you for every single one of you that comes every week so today is a very first episode of the year, and I wanted to do something special rather than going straight into full audio years.

Brown, brown, brown, brown, brown. I want to on the contrary step back and [00:01:00] say, what did we actually learn? In 2023. Um, we can all talk about FinTech, startups, and entrepreneurship without talking about. Fe there. The tough times. Mistakes and all the difficult things in life. Today's episode is a compilation episode and thank you for all our wonderful guests who have been throughout 2023

tonic, Craddock, Monica. Eaton Shalane Ben or barring Levitt loreen Jones.

jazz, Shar and Sarah King. All FinTech champions. And thank you so much for joining us in the show.

Resilience and Strength in Tough Times

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How did you find resilience and strength inside during the tough time? That's a good question [00:02:00] because the first reply that I want to give is that we just have it, is that you don't have any other choice. You need to be strong and you need to be resilient in order to keep going, in order to keep working, especially if you're a leader and there are many people that depend on you, you understand that if you're not resilient, If you're not strong, then what kind of leader will you be for all these other people that actually depend on you?

And for me, there were several layers. There was a layer of my family that needed help and needed support. And all eyes were on me in terms of how we're going to go through this. And the level of my teams that were also looking at me and the leadership's position in the hard times is critical [00:03:00] for, for a team's operation.

So it's something inevitable. You should, you either go strong or you go home. I like that. Yeah, because there's no way. Somebody asked me recently, like, how do you cope when it gets really tough? What do you do? And I, with a very serious face, I said. I just keep going. And she was like, what? I'm like, well, maybe I stop, I cry, you know, I reassess the other, but I just keep going and that's what you need to do.

Yeah. You keep going. You can be scared. You can cry, but you can still go in the meantime. Okay. Crying, but go. Exactly. Exactly. And I think that's a beautiful message. It's like, yeah, crying, but go. It's like scared, but go. You just keep going. Whatever feeling is coming up, just keep going. Because I always see it as otherwise, the alternative, I never liked the alternative.

The [00:04:00] alternative is scarier than whatever situation I might be at the moment. No, I don't like the alternative. So I just keep going.

And then the other side of success is, of course, life and work can be tough sometimes. So on the Jing and the Zhang, so how did you deal with the tough times when life gets difficult?

Redefining Failure and Success

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Again, we, we give this label tough times to stuff that is simply a mismatch between. Our expectations and the reality. So I know it sounds really strange to say this, but the way in which I deal with the tough times is to redefine what performance criteria is being satisfied by getting to where I am.

So I talk about the gap that I'm in and a lot of people get really frustrated when. The gap they're living in is between where they set out to get to, and where they got to. What is a much healthier gap is to compare the gap between where you've got to and [00:05:00] where most other people are. And it's pretty likely that if you live in the gap between where most other people are and And where you've got to, and if you're an aspiring and hardworking, they're pretty much most of the time, you're going to be doing pretty darn fantastically well.

This one, we set the bar so high in terms of achievement. So we're going to be guaranteed to be dissatisfied. So to me, so it's not so much, I don't have, I know it sounds really cliched, but I don't have tough times. In my career, I've had some things that haven't worked. I've lost a lot of money with one, one company I've worked with.

It costs a lot of money. You know what, in the end, what I learned from that is don't try to do something that you can't do well. I tried to do something I couldn't do well. I won't do that again. Because what wealths are in that insight, in that learning. And I'm supposed I'm lucky enough in that I've had enough good things happening or what I might consider to be good things happening to [00:06:00] allow me to, to weather a few storms.

I think that's what helps. Does that, does that give you an okay answer? Is that a bit of a cop out? But I'm a generally, I'm a compulsively optimistic person that, that, that my future is always going to be bigger than my past. It always is that way. And, and, and if something doesn't quite work, that's all.

It's just doesn't quite work. I love what you just said. My future is going to be bigger than my past. Cause I'm also very, very optimistic person, but I do have to accept many times. I'm like, Oh my God, the future, beer, beer, beer. Absolutely. Absolutely. And, and it, and if you have this underlying assumption that it will be, and I think most entrepreneurs, most people running small businesses, even if they've done really well, they will have in their mind the sense that tomorrow's always going to be bigger.

And that's quite cool. I'm interviewing somebody fairly soon myself, and he's made money, more money than most people could ever dream of. And he's [00:07:00] still out there making big investments, making big plays, taking risks, and in the process, having a hugely satisfying life.

original (28): Whether it's life or business startup or corporate, like sometimes life gets tough. We've all been there and that's like a very common human experience as such.

Mindset and Personal Growth

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original (28): So I want to start with how did you deal with the tough times? Failure. I was mulling this over when the, you know, you sent some of the job questions to me.

And, um, I was mulling over the kind of concept of failure, and I find it really interesting because at first I didn't really understand the question. I didn't really understand why I didn't understand the question. And then I kind of took that around in my mind for a bit and, and kind of asked myself why.

And I think it's, I think it's around the concept that I don't really use the word failure or to fail as part of my internal monologue or narrative that we all have with ourselves on a daily basis. It's not really [00:08:00] the way I talk to myself. That's not deliberate and it's not saying that everything I do is successful, far from it, but it's, it's kind of not the way I view kind of life and in particular your career or your kind of personal development.

I see it much more a way of kind of a test board. So, you know, there are times where it's very clear you're making advances in your personal life or your career. But sometimes, you know, we take very deliberate sidesteps or there are challenges that we need to overcome and we need to level set and recheck in with ourselves.

And sometimes you, you take steps backwards, ultimately to the same outcome. so I don't really use the word failure, but. I'm quite a resilient person, I really enjoy those challenges and I thrive in those challenges. So it's almost that kind of internal narrative where, okay, how can I overcome these?

What's the best possible outcome for me in this scenario? And the kind of prisoner's dilemma, how do you get the best out of the situation? and I think, we talk a lot about [00:09:00] how we appear in the outside world, but also it's how we talk to ourselves and be kind to ourselves. Some of that is unconscious, but some of that is also very deliberate.

I think that's a bit of a facety that I've learned to deal with over the years. Yes, I love that. And I, think as you were talking, I was like, yeah, I think I do the same thing. It's I don't talk to myself. I'm like, Oh, I failed. I never did that. But on the contrary, when it's like tough, it's more it, yeah, it is tough and I'm super resilient, but it's more of the what am I learning?

How do I go about things? Yeah, exactly. And even though sometimes you're like, it's tough and you're angry or emotional or like whatever emotion comes up with the toughness, whether that's personal life or work, but still you are like, yeah, but no, but yeah. Yeah. It's more like a iva. There's atrophy.

Yeah. Yeah. I like that. And, but I hadn't reflected on that. It was more like, how did you deal with the tough times? But it's more [00:10:00] probably embrace the tough times going forward. I think we, we allow ourselves to revel in our successes, right? Which is okay, I'm going to, I'm going to enjoy this for a day or whatever it is, and you see those championships, in tennis and sports saying, okay, I'm going to enjoy this for a day, I'm going to celebrate and then it's on to work.

And that's what we do. And it's also, we should be viewing a year or. Not succeeding in the way that we had envisaged that way, let's sit with it for a day, be frustrated, and then move on and then get to work. And I think it's, treating the success with a lack of advancement to be seen similarly.

I love that.

What do you do to handle those tough times? Do you actually think of it like, okay, cool, next day it's a good opportunity or did you do something else?

Work-Life Integration and Enjoyment

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Um, so there's a lot of discussion about work life balance. I believe personally in work life integration. I want to have fun doing everything that I'm doing.[00:11:00]

So that's one thing is I don't put stress on myself to say, Oh, I can't wait to get away from work because actually I just have fun in my personal life. I'm in misery on one side and actually I want to work around people that I enjoy. I want to do things I enjoy. And if I'm not enjoying it, then what can I change about myself?

How can I change about how I'm perceiving things? And we all have horrible days and it's building a business is not fun. It feels fun when you get to a point of success and you think, ah, I can't believe we got here, but you're in the trenches so many times. And all of us go through that, whatever walk of life we're in.

So for me. I, I'm literally thankful for every single problem that I've had, even for the most horrible challenges that I thought were absolutely unfair. And because you know what it's given me, it's given me the ability [00:12:00] to be more relatable, to be empathetic, to understand people, to influence people. And the older that I get, the more I appreciate humanity.

And people, and several years ago, I would have thought it's all about technology and product. I'm going to have the best product. That's it. And you come to appreciate there is nothing without people and life experience gives you a richness that actually you're able to really create more and more opportunities.

And that is probably one of the most fulfilling things. If you interview any entrepreneur, it's not the money. It's What good did you do in the world? How many people did you influence?

We met and we have a chat. And then at the end, I was like, you've got a very strong mindset. Not only you're an, an entrepreneur, right? All the entrepreneurs have a strong mindset. But I was like, I like the way that you think. So I was [00:13:00] really looking forward to this chat. So I want to start in that because yeah, you do come across as a strong man as such.

Um, We all know that strength sometimes comes from pushing through the rough times and we all have like tough times. So that's why I want to start. What's your mindset when it comes to failure and going through the difficult times? That's a tough question to start with. So when I was a kid, I was an athlete.

So until the end of high school, basically, I was doing judo. It's very easy. I can, you're alone, see you in the ring with your competitor and you need to deal with it, you need to win, and when you lose, you lost, not that you lost no one, like, like, you, yourself, you're the one who lost, and I think my coach and I, we usually what we did is that we celebrated wins, but [00:14:00] we, we acknowledge loss, you lost because, and you go why you lost, And you understand that losing is important.

It's not something you need to avoid something. It's really important for you to become better in what you do. Cause if you're not losing, it means you're not pushing yourself. You're not competing in the right competitions. You're not in the level that suits you. And once you lose, Now you have the opportunity to learn and become better.

Now, we always want to win and you do whatever it takes in order to, but when you lose, it's fine. Let's put it in perspective. Let's understand and let's fight. And there is more, there is an important fights which win and you're going to win. And there is the ones that you can lose. And if you lose, that's fine.

Yeah, I like that. This perspective is really important because [00:15:00] Try and win everything, understand what is important, what is not that important. And if you lost in a not that important fight, take it, understand why, use it to fuel your, your ability to become better. Yes, I like that approach because sometimes when we struggle that it's the tough times, it's not like we're losing in a competition.

It's just like life is tough, but at the same time, if we use that mindset that it's, it's tough because I'm, you losing on my ability to manage the situation better, then you're like, Oh, I just learned something. And therefore you can make those tough times easier slash better to cope with. Yeah, a hundred percent.

And I think eventually like when you're an entrepreneur, when you build something, you're not in a sprint and you're not, you don't have a direct line. You have a [00:16:00] mixed line, go up and down sometimes simultaneously. Your personal life, your business life, you are so much that going on. And if you like, you need to win everything.

And if you didn't win, it's the end of the world. Then it's like, you don't have any, it's really hard to celebrate small wins that way because everything, every time that you want something, you know, you diminish it. You said, no, it's what's very small. The important. Is in front of us, let's continue and let's celebrate, continue, like expecting to win will not get you to anywhere.

And I think understand like losses is super important to, to cope with it. But also I think through understanding that you can use, the [00:17:00] win is much more sweeter.

What do you do to handle those tough times? Do you actually think of it like, okay, cool, next day it's a good opportunity or did you do something else? Um, so there's a lot of discussion about work life balance. I believe personally in work life integration. I want to have fun doing everything that I'm doing.

How can I change about how I'm perceiving things? And we all have horrible days and it's building a business is not fun. It feels fun when you get to a point of success and you think, ah, I can't believe we got here, but you're in the [00:18:00] trenches so many times. And all of us go through that, whatever walk of life we're in.

So for me. I, I'm literally thankful for every single problem that I've had, even for the most horrible challenges that I thought were absolutely unfair. And because you know what it's given me, it's given me the ability to be more relatable, to be empathetic, to understand people, to influence people. And the older that I get, the more I appreciate humanity.

And that is probably one of the most fulfilling [00:19:00] things. If you interview any entrepreneur, it's not the money. It's What good did you do in the world? How many people did you influence?

Learning from Tough Experiences

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Life is not always easy. So it's also good to learn not just how to navigate work and product and FinTech and purpose, but like ourselves. So I want to start with a few questions on mindset about you. So let's start with how do you deal with the difficult times where the difficult times can be those days that you're frustrated for no reason.

That it's like, um, angstier, or probably digital times. Yeah, this is difficult to answer because it's going to sound a bit like, like a bro science, Joe Rogan y podcast y, I'll go for a walk or run or a cycle or I'll get to the gym and like box for a bit. [00:20:00] Yes. So lots of like physical activity, and I think it's physical activity might be.

Distract my frontal lobe puts me into a state of like deep consciousness where I'm just concentrating on one thing, which is running or walking or cycling, punching a bag or hiking. So for me, what works for me is fresh air, exercise, and then a cold shower. Again, that sounds really like bro sciencey or ice baths.

It works for me. But then sometimes I will go out and have a, have a glass of wine or probably about four and regret it the next day. But it's good. Yeah, I can mix it up. But exercise works for me. I think it doesn't necessarily work for everyone. It's you know, courses because it's really. Yeah, but I like that because I was thinking about this like recently I was like, Oh, [00:21:00] I was just like, you feel weird.

And I was like, Oh yeah. And I'm like, yeah, exactly. Went for a hike, go for a walk, just. Pressure because boxing, I was thinking I'd have my boxing gloves as well. I was like, just go to the gym and punch the bag. That's it. It's, it feels so good to just punch the bag. Yeah. You tie, yeah, you tie yourself out a bit and I think maybe with the jet, like it resets your body clock, so you tie yourself out and you feel, you feel tired.

You go to sleep, wake up at a normal, normal hour. And again, a bit more bro science, but like sunlight going out and getting sunlight, what I've realized is when I'm in. In a house, like in a room with limited sunlight for a day or even two days where I'm just working away. Mm-Hmm. makes a massive difference.

I, I feel like, oh, I feel a bit off. Like what do I feel flagging a little bit. And I'll go for a walk, sit in the sun for just five minutes, just get some sunlight and then come back and I'm like, oh. I feel, yeah, I feel a bed now. [00:22:00] Oh, that's, yeah. None of this is. I have a lot of scientific evidence here, so you can check out some of the podcasts on melatonin and sunlight and exercise, and that's what works for me.

It works. Cool. I like that. And I like starting in that way that it's like the tough times because they are inevitable, but it's just part of life.

Let's start with my favorite questions, that it's all about mindset. How do you deal with failure and the tough time? How do you deal with failure and the tough time? My approach is always being comfortable in during an uncomfortable period. And, um, I always look at things from an economic cycle perspective.

So whereby you're going to have your peaks, but you're going to have your low points. But actually being very comfortable in your low points, because that's really where you get to learn. So it's really more around, [00:23:00] instead of being depressed, which again, it's going to be difficult. You're going to have a depressed stage, but actually trying to pick yourself up and actually using that as a learning opportunity.

Because if you use that as a learning opportunity, it then actually ensures that when you get to that opportunity of growth, really it becomes more accelerated. So for me, I would say being very comfortable in when there is discomfort. Using that as an opportunity to learn, also get, get an advice from different people, because let's be honest, you are not going to be the first, you're not going to be the last person to go through a down period, but then most importantly, reading more around how you can use as an opportunity to accelerate that growth opportunity.

So that's how I deal with it. But also I have family, let's be honest. It's not, we're not all, we're not all an island, right? So also leveraging family, leveraging friends is so important because at the end of the day, we're still very human. Yes. I think that's such an important [00:24:00] piece. It's not only the learning and embracing it, but the supporting each other.

Today I was reminded, I met an amazing woman here the other day, months ago, big CEO in the FinTech space. And then I asked her, what's your secret to success? Like, she's also has a family, this, the other, and she said, my support network, I was like, of course, it's a, yeah, support network, whether that's family, friends, colleagues, makes a massive difference, massive difference.

Yeah, it does.

So often we can define success by things that are outside of our control. And, and that's just a pathway for failure. Yes, totally. And talking about failure, I think like it's a beautiful, big topic, but it's not just failure as such. It's about the tough times that sometimes we link them [00:25:00] with failure, but it's more in like, I want to talk more about the tough times.

What are the traits that you think you have or how have you coped? With the difficult times thing. The thing that has served me well throughout my life be that in my personal life or in my career, is always to be learning. Always take the learning from any experience. And I know it can sound a bit cliche, it can be a bit overused, but actually the toughest situations or experiences are often the ones that gift us the most learning, and I think.

If we can string on to that, that belief, even in the darkest moments of there will be another side of this, I will be able to take the learning from this experience, even though it's really tough at the moment. I think that fuels our sense of hope. [00:26:00] Um, I think it also fuels our sense of kind of momentum and okay, let me work my way through this experience at the moment.

Because on the other side, there will be learning. And if there's learning, that means there's growth. And if there's growth, then that, that's success. And that's a positive outcome. And, and I say that as someone who has been through those really tough moments as an entrepreneur and has had tough experiences in my personal life.

And it's hanging on to that sense of there will be another side when I get to the other side of learning. And, and that's always really fueled me. Yes, I like that and it reminds me, if I look back at, I don't know, five, six years ago, Monica, five to six years ago, I used to say a lot, yeah, everything is happening for a reason.

There's something that I need to do [00:27:00] here, learn, grow, yeah, and nothing is permanent. And I really like. The kind of mobility that suggests this idea that things aren't fixed. Hmm, yes, external circumstances can happen and that can feel really tough and that can actually feel really disempowering. But again, if we're looking for those opportunities to grow and to learn, that suggests movement and momentum and, and the ability to, and I love that.

My design thinking background, growth mindset, I'm a leadership coach. That sense of through growth, we develop through growth, we create change. I think is really important, especially in those moments when it feels like the odds are completely stacked against you. In those moments, that's what it's like.

You have to [00:28:00] hang on to that sense of belief around, around learning and around growth. Yes, definitely you do.