How much is that,

um, um,

welcome to the podcast.

Editors mastermind, a podcast dedicated to the business side of podcast editing.

Uh, today we have a really fun show is going over kind of the dream, right?

So it's going full time as a podcast editor, and we have an amazing guest,

uh, before getting into that, um, Daniel Abendroth, you can find me at

Roth media audio and below me, we have,

we have Brian Ensminger who's at top tier audio.com

and apparently so happy to talk.

I'm interrupting as Daniel's introducing me.

So I don't know what's up with that.

It feels like I'm just ready to go today.

Daniel, I don't, I'm going to shut up now.

It's your turn.

Do you know?

I'm sure I've spoken with you.

The site in some sort of Facebook editor's group, I'm sure I have.

Now I'm seeing your last thing.

I'm like, oh, we connected.

And like, you know, when you see someone's picture and then you

see them a little tiny meeting.

Oh, sorry.

Hello.

I'm CD mans brand new podcast edited to the, to the whole industry.

So thank you very much for having me on

Stevie started off in radio as a presenter more than a decade

ago, hosting a weekend breakfast show.

They're also a musician and has spent years in the studio learning under

some of the industry's top producers as a podcast producer and coach DV

works with entrepreneurs and small businesses, helping them create

content that inspires and empowers.

Stevie says nothing makes me happier than helping someone achieve their goals and

help bring their message to the masses.

Stevie, thank you so much for joining us tonight.

I'm pleasure.

And thank you for reading my bio.

It sounds great.

Oh,

I'm sorry for screwing it up just easy.

I love it.

I love it.

Do you know, it's just like, as a musician, like you write your bio

for other people and I'm sure it translates into other industries.

It's always really funny hearing it back, but it's that we sounded fun.

Thanks.

So tell us a little bit about like where you come

from and how you got to the point.

So I guess the big news is that you are now a full-time podcast editor.

Okay.

So as of more or less tomorrow, yes.

So, um, I had have slash had a day job.

So I have worked in the corporate field for 14 years.

In fact, um, in the finance industry loved it, absolutely loved it.

Um, one of those things, it was just that thing of, I graduated in 2007, got

a job in banking and in 2007, the credit crisis happened and I kind of got stuck.

And at that point I hadn't really figured out what I wanted to do.

And it was just a case of, well, the economies.

Can I swear on this?

Uh, probably

not, probably not the economy is not doing well.

Um, and so I was like, okay, I should probably, you know, I'm good at math.

I can do it.

Let's just stick with it.

And just never really lit my fire.

And it was funny because last year, obviously during the pandemic,

how many people can I get an amen had a come to Jesus moment.

And I had one of those moments I was reading and forgive me, you, you

gentlemen may not have read this book.

I'm not going to say that you haven't, and I'm not making a make any assumptions.

But I was reading Glenn and Doyle's book on tamed and in the book, she had

a moment where she was speaking with a friend and she asked her friend,

what is the most honest truest version that you can imagine of your life?

And I just put the book down and I was like, well, it's not this.

And at that point gave myself permission to go.

If I had a blank piece of paper and I wanted to write, you

know, to design my life and my career, what would it look like?

And that was the first time I'd really given myself permission to do that.

And at that point, um, I, you know, had, you know, a couple of my own

podcasts, I was helping some friends with theirs and I thought this is

something that I'm really interested in.

I've been doing my own for a couple of years.

I've been in audio.

Um, my, my dad's actually in radio he's, he's, he's been radio for like

40 years or something like that.

So I, I'd always sort of grown up with it in the background.

And, and for me, podcasting is the new radio and I thought, yeah, I love this.

Why am I not doing this?

What am I so scared of?

How, you know, if I were to design a career in it, what would it look

like and how would I get there?

And that's when I really started thinking about.

What do I need to do in order to make this happen?

And tomorrow, you know, it isn't exactly the way I would have wanted to make

it happen in the sense of, you know, I'm, I'm able to quit my corporate job.

I'm kind of getting a payout from this job, um, which is great, but I'm

now being, you know, it's a slightly different situation where, you know,

hopefully a number of people will be able to kind of build up a portfolio of

clients where they're able to support themselves and get, get to that position.

I'm in a slightly different situation.

I'm very fortunate to be able to sort of quit my day job and have a bit

of a buffer and be able to do that.

But that's kind of how it's happened for me.

And I'm really grateful and I'm really happy that, you know, postmark, I

say post pandemic, we are not post pandemic, but post the worst of the

pandemic, I'm now able to look at a different life and career for myself.

So roughly a year, since you read the book year a year and a half,

I believe it was may last year.

Yeah.

And I think in June I secured my first.

That's crazy.

So, I mean from essentially zero to like ready to make the transition

right now and right about a year.

That's incredible.

What did you like, how did you start laying that groundwork and building that

framework to, to build your path to this?

I

think the first place I started, I mean, you could say that I,

in terms of getting my first client, that was the first step, but it isn't,

I think the first step is having the interest, developing your skillset.

And I was doing.

Oh, I had been doing that with my own podcasts.

Um, and I have, you know, my primary podcast is, um, is a music interview show.

I'm a musician and that's sort of what I started doing.

And when I was working in radio, one of the ideas that I had, you know, as

a musician and a radio presenter was, I want to interview local musicians.

I want to do a quick 10 minute segment, ask them about a song of theirs and

put a deck on, on the radio and promote local, local music and local musicians.

I was actually living in, um, on, on a small island called

Josie, Josie OJI, as I call it.

Cause it's the original in the channel islands in the

UK, or sorry in great Britain.

It's not actually part of the UK.

And, um, I really wanted to promote the local music scene because it's

just a really small, you know, it's a small island and it had to have

that sort of small town feel to it.

And what I did was I had to sell this idea the only way that I was able to get.

On the radio was to sell this as a segment and give it to the sales

team and have someone sponsor it.

So that was sort of my first idea of this is sort of, it was sort

of a mini show and I had to, you know, sell it to the radio station.

I had to sell it to the sales guys and the sales guys had to get a sponsor for it and

come, you know, Ooh, gosh, nearly 10 years later, I thought I don't need a radio

station for me to be able to do this.

So I thought I can just create my own podcast and do the show like

the segment as an entire show.

And so that's how my podcast developed.

And I was a musician in New York city.

And for me it was, it was a couple fold really because I

was a new musician on the music.

And it's really difficult.

New York works very differently to almost any other city or certainly

the way, the way that it had for me in the UK, where you tend to get in touch

with a venue, a touring artist comes round and you say, you know, that that

artist is sort of within my genre.

Can I get on the bill for that in New York?

Because it's the big city.

If a major artist comes to New York, they tend to bring somebody who is on

their label, but lower down in the PA you know, the pecking order with them.

So your chances to get in front of an audience are actually much slimmer.

And you've got to, if you get a show at a venue, you've actually

got to bring an audience already.

And so it was kind of chicken and egg, because if you can't get in front of an

audience, how do you bring an audience?

And so what I started doing was I created, um, an artist circle where I had like

a Nashville style round, where you had like three artists on stage together,

and you would kind of cross pollinate audiences and hopefully you would, you

know, be able to, to build off that.

As, uh, we would do this maybe every other month.

And so between shows, I said, well, in order to help us create this event

series that we're doing, let's create a podcast where we interview the musicians

that are going to be in the show.

And that way, if people don't know who the artists are, they get to listen

to them ahead of like, you know, putting out 15 bucks to come to a show.

And then we build up the mailing list and so on.

So it started off.

You know, a podcast in addition to a music event series.

And then with the pandemic, obviously the podcast took over because there

was no event series that we could do.

Um, and then it became really interesting for me of like, okay, how can I support

my community versus, you know, it being something to support our series.

So it had, you know, some sort of, uh, you know, an interesting, um,

birth, if birthplace, if you like.

And then I started doing another podcast with a friend that was

sort of an aftershave podcast.

It's entirely just a, uh, you know, pleasure podcast for me, which, you

know, has got a niche market, star Trek.

Um, but it's, it's just pure fun.

And I think, you know, I was starting to do this and I thought, oh, you know,

if I want to, if I want to go into this, how else can I, can I do this?

And I started to help friends who had podcasts and I would help them edit.

And then when I was thinking of.

Getting a client.

Um, there was somebody that I reached out to and she was an environmental

activist and she's from the UK.

And I remember that she had done, um, an event coming to the U S and

she'd like paddle boarding down the Hudson and was raising awareness

about plastic pollution years ago.

And I reached out to her and I was like, do you have a podcast?

And it was genuinely, wasn't a pitch, but I was like, I would listen

to that podcast if you had one.

And she goes, well, it's funny you say that.

And she said, I am launching one with this company, but they aren't

going to manage it, post the launch.

And so I just happened to reach out to her at the right time.

And we started working together after.

And then thereafter, I think there was, there was somebody else that I

was working with on another project.

And they were like, oh, I need somebody to do a podcast.

Would, you know, are you interested in that?

And we could trade.

And that's how I sort of got my second client.

So that's kind of how it started.

And, you know, it's, it's probably not from the inception of last year, June.

It was probably two years prior to that where I really took an interest in, you

know, I ha I had the, the joy and the desire to be a podcaster, first of all.

And I think you have to have that before you even begin and you don't necessarily

have to have that you're editing.

But for me, if I'm going to listen to something I need to know what's good

and how it sounds and what's engaging.

And for me, that was by doing it.

Yeah, I would, I would definitely agree.

Um, I definitely fell in love with podcasting before

I fell in love with editing.

And I think that some of that experience.

Um, trying to like me trying to figure out how can I make my show not suck, right?

Like how can I make this not drag on for it?

Like all of that stuff then becomes those things that I can bring to a client who

is saying, Hey, feels like my is dragging.

What can I do?

And I said, well, have you thought about this?

Right.

And so it's really cool that you cut your teeth on that.

And Ashley says that, uh, she loves this.

I would agree at the, the story of the first client is like the thing that a

lot of people at a lot of people ask me, how do I find my first client?

How like all of that, I don't have a portfolio.

How do I edit for somebody so I can get like all of that.

I love how you shared that from your, your venue experience, but

then also getting the first client.

And then that second client did after that, did you have to start

going out and getting clients.

What did that look like?

Is it

I'm still in that period?

I'm still in that kind of looking.

And to be honest, it's, it's difficult because I have, my

corporate job is 60 hours a week.

And then I edit my own pod, my own two podcasts, plus two

client podcasts on top of that.

So I really don't at the moment, have time to take on this third,

like a third, fourth, whatever.

So I kind of, I just need to get rid of this corporate job

to enable me to kind of do that.

And yeah, that quite honestly, I need, I need help and lessons in

how to, to search for clients.

And I'm like, do I really want to DM people?

Or do I want to, you know, how do I want to do that?

Do I want to kind of reach out to editors who have, you know, too much

stuff and they need to outsource, you know, do I want to be doing that?

Like, I'm still figuring out all of, all of the rest of it.

So I, I do not, I will fully admit this.

I don't have it all fully baked yet and I'm still figuring out, Hey, do I, do I

want to create my own editing business?

Do I want to work for a production?

I'm still exploring all of this stuff.

And I'm like, I'm lucky enough that I have the space and, and financial stability

to be able to do that for a few months.

Yeah.

One thing that I do want to make note of, like, I feel like for me, so I did

have like the client base to support me financially before I went full time.

Um, but I think it is good to know that that doesn't

necessarily have to be the case.

So you are fortunate in your job.

Do we, I remember if we talked about this before we started recording or not

the background, your do your job in, um,

hi, I'm able to leave my job.

Um, I'm not entirely sure that I can talk about that.

Yeah.

Well, I guess my

point is like, um, your job situation allows you to go

full-time as podcast editor, before you have the clients to, um, like a full.

Capacity business.

I guess I took the option of being made redundant.

I can say that, uh, and that, that sort of redundancy packages allowing

me to have a bit of financial security.

Yeah.

So you don't have to have like, um, a whole bunch of clients before, so you

can be more creative in how you like make the transition from full-time to,

or I guess from part-time to full-time.

Yeah.

Um, I also, you know, I'm also married, my me and my wife were able to kind of

manage this and like she's, she's helping me to, to have this sort of freedom for

a little while to be able to do this.

Um, so I, I fully appreciate that this is not the easiest thing for most people.

And I have been in that situation where I was like, I was living in New York city.

I couldn't, you know, new York's New York, city's expensive.

Um, I could, I couldn't do that.

And I was also on a, you know, I was also on a visa and if I didn't have

my visa from my corporate job, then I couldn't stay in this country.

So for me, it was definitely just one, one thing was dependent on, on other,

and it wouldn't have been possible for me in almost any other way.

So I, I do fully appreciate I'm, uh, I'm in a really privileged

position to be able to do

this.

Yeah, I know for me, because like one thing that's difficult is there's

only so much editing work you can take on when you have a full-time job.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Cause you work, you know, like in your case, 60 hours a week, and then trying

to fit in those few hours, you have in the evenings on the weekends, um,

to build a job that makes enough to.

Cover your expenses.

It's really difficult.

And I was fortunate that I had one very, very profitable client that was

able to, um, kind of get me over that hump so I could quit my job and then

work on building up my portfolio by where you're about to say something.

I'm sorry,

go ahead, Stevie.

I think you're going to say no,

no, I was just going to ask, you know, and how,

what was the time period for you?

For me?

Yeah,

just from kind of, you know, starting out and

then, because I'm full time.

So

I started my own podcast in 2015 and then a

couple months after that I started selling my services on fiber.

Um, and we did actually, um, so if you're interested in all of our, uh,

origin stories, like how we got our first clients, we did do an episode on that.

And go ahead and check the show notes.

Once this episode is released on the podcast for a link to that episode, I

can't remember exactly which one it was.

Um, so a few months after I kind of essentially my

podcasts kind of floundered.

Um, and so I was selling my services on Fiverr or towards the end of 2015.

And then it was at the end of 2017 when I made that jump to full time

and quit my job in podcast editing.

Full-time

okay.

So that's really, I mean, two to

two or so years.

Yeah, probably about a little over, almost two and a half years.

Yeah.

Um, I'm way slower than Daniel.

I think I'm three and a half or four years into this and

still working my full-time job.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I got really lucky that I had a client that was paying like $25 for per minute.

Yeah, sorry.

My eyebrows don't translate to audio, but they went up,

um, there were like seven to eight minute almost kind of like

news clips, like for like a news reel.

Um, but I had to like find and hire, I didn't have to pay, but I had to like

find voice actors to read these, go back and forth to all the revisions.

So it was more as much more of a process, but it was definitely,

um, yeah, extremely profitable.

And like the amount of work I got from them was able to like

really, um, give me enough work and finances to make that transition.

So you, for you, it was mostly sort of our fiber and then you

started to find clients outside of fiber.

Yeah.

So for me it was, yeah, I started on a fiver and then I just had

one client who was a life coach.

We started working together.

Cause it's

such an inter like it's such an, it's just a whole thing in podcasting.

Yeah.

Live coaching and podcasts.

Like it's a really strong like mayors for podcasting is such

a great tool for life coaching.

Um, but it was just kind of word of mouth.

Like pretty much I've never done any kind of marketing.

It's just, I had that one client who referred another client who

referred another one who referred to, and it's just kind of like most

of our clients are word of mouth.

Gotcha.

And Brian, what about you?

Uh, in terms of the transition, I started

with my first client for free.

Uh, he had been a guest on my show and was looking to do something and he put a

segment together for my show for a while.

Then we spun that off into its own show.

And then, uh, I dunno, probably a year into that, or so I was actively going out

and looking for clients at that point.

And somebody who runs a production company contacted me and said,

Hey, would you do the editing out?

You know, would you white label for me?

I'll bring in the shows you do the editing.

And so I still have 44 shows through her that I am responsible for.

And then I've kind of picked up a couple here and there currently

have nine shows that I'm working on, uh, varying production schedules.

And I'm now in the place where I've started bringing in some editors because.

I'm at capacity.

And when I say at capacity, probably at like 115%.

And so having brought in other people has definitely helped, although there

is the onboarding process, right.

And that's, that's something that I started late last year.

So I've got now three people that are helping me one show each.

Um, but it's, it's a, it's a process.

Cause I don't want to bring everybody on at once.

And so that's been a bit of a challenge and it's also, it's a different way

about thinking about the money, right.

Because before I could think about it and go, what's this worth to me now I have

to think about it in terms of what's my management overhead, plus what I need

to pay them to make this make sense.

And so that's been a, a bit of a, a brain thing for me.

Um, I I'm wondering as you've, as you're thinking about this,

how do you approach pricing?

Right.

So you're making the move.

How do you like, do you have any thoughts around how you put that together?

Ah, I feel the pricing that I have done for the two clients

that I've taken on initially was.

What exactly are you looking to do?

Because I feel, you know, obviously everyone's podcast needs

are different, so it was okay.

Well, how much of my time do you need really?

And what extras do you want if you just want a basic editing and it's

30 minutes, it's this, if you want more than basic editing and you want,

um, you know, you want some creative production and you want, you know, mid

season analytics, if you're doing a season and both of my clients actually

do do seasons versus we, you know, weekly, um, then it's going to be this.

And, you know, so, and I think part of my, part of my skillset

from some of the corporate stuff has been a lot of data analytics.

Excuse me.

I love XL.

I was going to swear, but I really do love it.

Um, and I really, you know, I think there's a lot of power in, in data

and, and, and, you know, analytics and creating, you know, different

spreadsheets and charts and things.

I get really excited by pivot tables, um,

nerd

alert, right.

Hard alert.

Right?

Yeah.

Um, so, you know, for me, that's kind of like an extra that I can add on if

somebody wants that and you're able to pull down that data and stuff,

which I quite enjoy because I'm like, I have certainly seen a difference

in when I have given that to a client than worse than versus when I haven't.

Um, so I certainly say, okay, what exactly do you need?

And then I figure out like water, what is my time to it?

Because I think for me, my, you know, working 60 hours a week,

I don't have a lot of time.

So I'm like, okay, how much time will this take me?

And then I sort of price it off that.

Yeah.

One thing I found like a good strategy is trying to.

This is going to sound weird, but get the most out of each client.

So rather than trying to get like 20 clients that are paying you to like,

just edit their episodes, getting 10 clients, that's paying you more

to edit, manage, do like analytics stuff like, oh, so doing more work

because it's easier and a lot less like brain power to manage fewer clients.

But at a higher rate,

I get so much more satisfaction doing all of like more of

it doing the creative process with them.

And then, you know, having discussions about who do they

want to have on their show.

And like one of the reasons I like the clients that I have, I've kind

of chosen them to an extent where I'm interested in the subject matter.

And I have, you know, some, some knowledge on.

What their subject is and who would be a good fit and have

their thought about this.

And, and I love the, I think that's, that's certainly a direction I would like

to explore in terms of my own career.

Is that creative process.

And, and the more like of the producer side, as well as the

editing, I'm happy to do both for now.

Not necessarily if I have to, because I think there's a lot to be learned by doing

everything at once, but I definitely want to go in a, sort of a creative direction

and that sort of producer role also.

And yes, it will also earn me more

money.

It does.

Yeah.

Uh, so I, I recently added management services to one of

my clients who has two shows.

And I will say that it's nice to be able to know that I'm serving him more deeply.

Um, It's been a while because both of my previous shows are on

hiatus because I'm at capacity.

Right.

And so it's been a while since I've written show notes and

created graphics and scheduled all the social media and everything.

So like the first week of doing that for him was like, oh yeah,

I remember how much work this is.

I probably under-priced

myself.

It's a lot of work.

I do all of that.

I do the audio grams, you know, do the show notes, all of that stuff.

And like, and now one of the things that I'm, I want to learn

as part of my thing is, is video.

And it's like final cut pro or it's like Adobe, premier.

And I'm like, so that I can create, you know, really engaging video is

part of their, their podcast content.

And that's, you know, another skill to my bow and that's more than I can, you

know, that I could be, I could charge

for

definitely.

Um, Ashley had a comment that you're moving more toward a producer than

an editor, which is where, uh, her interests lie, tend to lean as well.

I'm wondering, you know, you.

You had the show, so obviously you've got experience, but did you also have

any training or anything that helped you to kind of step into that role

with my client, with my, uh,

uh, w with your clients?

Yeah.

To help them through the process?

I think probably just from my own experience as a creative,

um, being a musician in terms of, you know, like I've, I've done

two fully studio produced albums.

So I've been in a situation where I have to kind of direct, I have to project

manage and I have to, I've been, you know, obviously, and I think I've

had to come to that realization of, I am the person whose project this is,

and I know that I am not the drummer.

I know that I'm not the bass player, you know, I might look like, and

I have to kind of go, I know what I like versus I know everything.

And you have to somewhat go to these people.

You know, the people that you're working with, you.

I trust that you can do this, but I will know what I want as an overall project.

And so I think in terms of the creative process, you, you know, when I write a

song, I know you start off with, Hey, this, I'm not sure if you're familiar

with the, the sort of trajectory.

Some people put it out there, but it's, it's like you start a song and you're

like, oh, I'm nervous about this.

And then it's like, oh, I think this might be okay.

And then you're like, oh yeah, I'm really into this.

And you're like, oh, I think this might be a bit shit.

And then you're like, oh, I'm I'm shit.

And then you're like, oh actually this is okay in the end.

And so you sort of go through this whole process of, of sort

of loving it self-loathing and coming out on the other side.

And it's, it's really similar for everyone.

And, um, if you are an artist, I'm sure you will have heard of

Julia Cameron's the artist's way.

And she talks through that, that whole thing.

So for me, it was, it's mostly sort of a lot of trust and, um, reliance on.

The creative process and knowing what that is for me as an artist and being

able to translate that to a podcast and go, you know, I like also, it's, it's,

it's knowing what you like when you listen to podcasts and, and going, okay.

I, you know, I know what the quality is that I'm looking for and in terms

of what I want to create and the, the vibe of it, I think you need

to really stay true to, to that.

Um, and, and just really trusting yourself with it.

I think I rambled there was, that was, that did that answer.

I want to let Daniel talk cause I keep jumping right in,

so I don't know.

You're totally fine.

Tuned to change subject to any anyway.

Um, so have you thought about.

What it'll be like to not have structure or like, have

to create your own structure.

I am

terrified.

I am terrified, so terrified in fact, this week, but I was like,

oh my God, how am I going to do this?

And I downloaded Microsoft office because outlook is the thing that I've

been using to kind of structure my day.

So that was the thing that I have, you know, that's really the tool that I'm

like, I think this is going to be the tool that's going to help me do this.

And whether it, you know, I use this tool for, you know, I have a little

bit of time off and like, what do I want to do for my own self development?

And how am I going to schedule my time?

That's as far as I've gotten with, this is the tool that I'm going to use.

And then what are the things that I want to achieve within this time?

Um, in terms of up-skilling and, you know, project management and stuff.

But I, I think it's, I I'm terrified.

I think I have, you know, I've been working in a corporate job for the

last 14 years, so I think I'm like, okay, let's get up and let's start work

at eight o'clock let's have a coffee and then let's go until like six.

So it may be that I'm not entirely sure.

We'll, we'll have to see how it goes.

Uh, I will tell you that the thing that scares me about

the thought of going full time is that after several years of doing full-time

plus editing eight, nine shows on a regular basis that I'll crash, right.

That I'll come in with, nobody telling me to get up and get exact,

get to work at exactly this time.

And like, just totally bomb because I'm, I mean, on some level I'm worn out.

Right.

And so there there's a need for that, but it has to come at pace because I

still have to generate revenue too.

So I think you hit the nail on the head, like that does scare me.

Yeah.

And being aware and like coming up with a plan, um, 'cause I remember, it's just

like, I think one of the pieces of advice that you hear a lot is when you work

from home or like work for yourself is still dressed like a go into the office.

And I think that's just a load.

Like I'm not going to get like a suit and tie and crab and like to sit at my

desk, like, I'll wear my pajamas to,

I take the dogs out regularly.

So if I were to do that and walk outside with the dogs and then walked

back in, it would look bizarre.

So I, I, I think what I, what I have done, I think since the pandemic

starts, that's given me this whole, like what is working from home?

Like, and one thing, you know, That I made sure that I started to do was okay.

Let's have some structure to my day.

And that structure was, I get up, you know, I will have

to get up at the same time.

My wife, dear Lord gets up at four o'clock.

She has to commute.

So, you know, the dogs get up and I know it's horrendous, but it is what it is.

And to some extent, and like, it starts my day and I have coffee

and I watch the news and then I'm like, okay, so this is starting to

form my day and I'll start work.

I have to take the dogs out and I will make sure that I have a gym break.

So I'm like, okay, let's structure these things into my day and then let's

work these other things around and then let's finish at a certain time.

And I think for me having those things at certain points allows me

to go, okay, this is something that I need to do before this break.

This is something that I need to do before this break.

But, you know, as I say, beginning of the pandemic, when it started that I

was like, I need to get up and shower.

Like, that's something that I have to do.

As, as a human being, but also, you know, like I didn't

want to leave it until later.

I'm like, no, this, like, it just starts off your day in a certain way.

And you know, you don't necessarily need to get up and get dressed in a suit.

But I think if you have some sort of like structure to your day and

you started at a certain point, I think that's probably enough.

Yeah.

So I'm sort of like morning routine.

I mean, I will say that for the first year of working

from home when the pandemic hit, cause I'm still working from home.

Um, I did, I mean, this is me dressed for work.

Right.

And I did that five days a week now I'm more like two or three days a week.

And then the other days are t-shirt days, but I still put my clothes on.

Right.

Like I, I, I have to do that part or it just doesn't feel right

now, Saturdays are different deal.

Like get dressed when I get dressed that Saturday.

But on weekdays, that's how I do it.

There's a real mental thing that happens when you do that.

And it's, it's, it's part of self.

Like it's, it's just so important for, for my own mental health and

long story short, but I ended up having to go to Mexico for four months

as part of this whole visa thing.

And it, through my routine, I had a, I had a really comfortable routine and I would

get up in the morning and I would, you know, I, I like my, I like masterclass.

I watch a masterclass for 10, 15 minutes.

I watched the news for 10, 15 minutes.

I write in my gratitude journal.

I meditate.

That was what I was doing.

And then I went to Mexico and I was like, oh, how am I going

to get back into this routine?

Because it, and it took about me.

It wasn't difficult to do.

It was just you're out of it and things aren't in the same place.

You're thrown around a little bit.

Like I didn't have a cattle to make my coffee stupid, stupid

little things threw me off.

And then I had to find my way back into this routine.

And that was the structure that quite honestly kept me sane because I had

to go there by myself for four months.

And my me and my dog.

And I didn't know anyone and I, my Spanish was not great it's we went to our Rita,

however, it wasn't great at the time.

And that was the thing that allowed me, you know, that, that structure

helped me really, really start my day.

Yeah.

We've got a comment from Ashley's saying yep.

Almost Stevie formal work wear isn't necessary, but some kind

of morning routine or getting dressed in the morning or getting

dressed that makes you feel alive.

It makes a huge difference.

Yes.

Ashley and Andrea had a very good, uh, where's it, there it is.

Um, it took me a while to learn when is best for me to work and not

default to traditional business hours.

Because one thing I noticed for me is like, I'm pretty good in the morning.

Um, and then launch, then I like to take a nap and then like, uh, mid, late afternoon

is like when I'm really productive.

Um, so I know.

I can't do so I, what I tend to try to do at least before I got a dog

that completely wrecked our schedule.

Um, well, it's kinda mourning a little bit of obligation.

So like I have a, an assistant that will like, uh, listen to my episodes

and then send me revisions of anything I missed or any tweaks I need.

Um, I was like, that'll do first thing, business stuff.

But then I know, like in the afternoon, if I try to do something in the morning,

then it's hard for me to focus on editing.

So I know my work isn't going to be as good.

So it's about like learning, um, where your most productive and like

Andrea was saying that you don't have to stick to traditional business

hours like that nine to five.

I

think we find what works for you.

I think just because I have been in that situation for my entire working

life, I think that's probably the easiest way for me to transition.

I may transition out of it.

I may end up working late nights who knows.

We'll see.

Yeah,

I think it was pat Flynn.

I was listening to that's it, like, he ended up working like

in the middle of the night.

Cause that's whenever work best for him.

Like he's the most productive and that gave him like the freedom during

the day to spend time with his kids.

Yeah.

Oh, go ahead.

Sorry.

No, I was just gonna say a lot of people have like, in terms of

sleeping habits and like the, yeah, I think you've got a circadian rhythm.

A lot of people's are different and some people work better

at night because of that.

Yeah.

And a lot of people will say like, you need to get up like early in the

morning to do your morning routine.

And that way, like to get a good Sergeant today day, it's like,

that's not true for everybody.

So it's like, don't feel, don't like, don't feel ashamed because like you don't

follow, like, cause you're not getting up at four in the morning to do like your

morning workout before you go to work.

Like, that's fine.

If that's not what works best for you.

I've been thinking through like some of this kind of

struggling with it, because for a while, my editing business has been like 5, 5

30 in the morning until six 30 or so.

And then again, like call it eight 30 at night until 10.

Right.

So my, my business hours are when everybody else is not working,

I've been kind of wondering, like, does that continue?

Like, or do I transition to something more like what Steve is talking about

with traditional business hours?

Cause I do have traditional business hours.

It's just not for my businesses for my job.

And that's, that's one of the things I've been wondering is like, do I, at

some point start putting barriers on my day and say, I now work normal people,

hours in quotes, normal people hours.

Uh, so I'm not available at odd times, but I am actually available when you

are aware as right now, I'm typically available when other people aren't,

unless they're in Europe or Australia, that, um, then I'm good to go.

I'm curious.

I have, I have many questions for you, Brian.

One of them I think, is around.

And as a creative, I hear that creating boundaries or limits for yourself

can be really helpful and productive.

And I'm curious if you've thought about like, creating that limit for

yourself and what that would be.

So that's my first question.

So I'll let you answer that before I asked myself, so

I've thought about that, but in a lot of ways, my, the

boundaries have already been created.

Right.

Cause I, I have a day job.

Right.

And they sort of expect me to do that work so that that's a boundary that's there.

May I ask what that is?

Or, yeah, I

work as a, uh, I work in analytics.

I do network, uh, logistics network modeling for a large pet food company.

Uh, so manufacturing, distribution, all that kind of stuff.

And so that's a fairly engaging job for the call it eight to five ish range.

And then I've also got kids and volunteering and stuff.

Right.

And so like I have boundaries where I have to say.

I don't want to say half to that makes it sound bad.

I have time that I have planned to spend with my family and I have

some time planned into my week.

That's set aside for not working, but beyond that, the

boundaries are pretty much set.

I mean, eventually I have to sleep, right.

So I can't go past like 10 30 is usually when I try to end so that

I can spend a little bit of time with my wife before I go to bed.

And then I'm typically up at five to feed the dog.

And then shortly after that, I'll start working until like six 30

when it's time for my son to go to school, say, say goodbye to him.

Do that whole thing.

So like in a lot of ways right now, my boundaries are there.

If those boundaries were gone, that's what has me concerned?

I don't know.

I don't know your situation.

I'm just gonna ask this question, but have you asked your employer, whether

you could come back a day a week?

I

haven't yet because I'm not sure that I'm at the place to do that.

Um, there are.

Um, my workload at work is more than one person's workload.

And I don't say that like, look what they're doing to me.

I mean, it's just this constant conversation about prioritizing

and what's going to get done next and what gets pushed off.

So I'm not sure that they would be willing to have that conversation.

Although it's something that I have in the back of my mind, for sure.

I have been very surprised at what people have

been willing to negotiate.

Like when I like the few times in my life where I have said, this is what I want.

I'm like, it's, it's a hard, no, for me, um, I've been really surprised at what

people like people and employers will do.

If you say this is, this is a no go for me and I will walk away

from this and I've genuinely meant it because I CA I couldn't do.

Any more, but I've been really surprised with what people would come back with.

And I'm not suggesting that you walk into your employer's office.

I quit if you don't give me one deal, but I'm just curious if, if, um, you've

maybe considered something like that.

But,

uh, I have in the past, for sure.

Um, not recently because the workload went right, uh, with, with all of the changes

in how retail works in the U S over the last year, like we're redoing all of our

five-year plans from like two years ago.

Cause nothing is the same.

Everything is totally different.

And so now we have to validate all of the stuff that we thought we were going to do.

Well, I'm going to stop there cause this isn't about that job.

Right.

But if you, but do you think that if you had the time to go full, like for

instance, if you, if your job, for instance went away, not an, I don't

wish that upon you, if that is not your choice, but if it did go away, do you

think that you would be able to fill that void with your editing class?

I think it'd be, I think it'd be pretty

hairy for a couple of months.

I think after.

I probably could, um, going out and getting clients is not my strong suit.

Uh, you mentioned not wanting to be in people's DMS.

That's like, I'm sorry, but the cold sales conversations, those creep me

out on both sides of the conversation.

So I'm sort of moving into some areas where I'm creating spaces

for people to connect and I can be there and meet people there.

So I'm trying to do it a little, so that, that tends to be a longer sales

cycle, but it's more comfortable to me.

So I would say, I think I could, but probably not the first couple of months.

Of

course now I'm sure I'm, you know, and that's, that's kind of the

whole point of this conversation in some, to some extent is like, do you build it

up to a hundred percent and banquet or do you build it up to 70% and then quit?

Or do you like, where, where is it for most.

I mean, I can't speak for most people.

I think we're where I would be comfortable is in that 50

to 75% range where I go, okay.

I'm most of the way there.

And if I had an additional 40 hours a week, I think I could

fill this gap pretty quickly.

Um, where I'm at right now is more like 25 to 30% of the way there.

And that has me a lot less comfortable.

Okay.

I have a question that somewhat it's sort of related and it's

around finding clients sort of, um, how active are you guys on social media?

And for me

I'm fairly active in like the podcasting groups, that those

kinds of places I'm not as active, um, going out and specifically targeting

like business owners or things like that.

So

you engage in like the Facebook groups, but

I guess maybe my question is like, do you post as an editor?

Are you like, sort of trying to create, I'm not, I don't mean to say

an influencer, but are you trying to kind of create a persona as, as

that, are you trying to sort of create content to demonstrate what you do?

I tend to spend most of my time answering questions, which I

like to think of as demonstrating ability, although, um, it doesn't translate to

sales is probably as often I've moved into a little bit more of the content

creation side on Instagram and really around the, like addressing some of those.

I don't want to say stupid.

Some of the questionable things that I, that I see going on where like, you

know, which microphone should I buy?

Well, if you don't know what you're gonna talk about, it doesn't matter.

So let's, let's figure that like, I mean, if you got nothing to say, who cares,

what you sound like, that means that.

Yeah.

Thinking about starting a podcast, I'm trying very out how to make money from

it, but I don't have a topic, but yet.

Yeah.

And, and it's for everybody, it's

just whoever wants to listen.

Like, no.

Yeah.

I think there's more important things to worry about before you

start thinking about monetization.

Um,

well I asked that question because I think in this sort of Xi podcast

space, there are a number of people who are, you know, promoting themselves on

Instagram and they're creating reels of by like, oh, you know, um, what are

some of the top tip, uh, the top tips or the top pitfalls of being in podcasting

or like how to get clients or, or, you know, and there's a lot of like space

for, um, podcast producers or editors or people who like, you know, want to

launch clients or things like that.

And they're, and it's, for me, it sort of, it has this sort of, um, it's got

this look about it and it sort of, you know, shiny and that for Instagram,

and that's the way that you get seen and potentially get clients that way.

And I'm I'm, I don't necessarily know.

From the male perspective.

I definitely see it from this sort of female perspective.

Cause you know, in that sort of thirties, female it's, it's got a look to it.

I don't know how to say that diplomatically, but it does

have a nice, shiny look to it.

It's not me.

I just wonder if there's a, there's an equivalent for you guys.

So,

uh, I will say that I've been working on that kind of thing.

And recently I thought about resurrecting a show that I've got on

pause right now so that I can actually create a show that has the content

that I would want to share anyway.

And then also share that content, for example, on Instagram or Twitter or

something like that too, to basically try and leverage those channels.

Not necessarily to get people, to subscribe to my show, but

to say here's a show that I.

Yeah.

So you can hear that.

I actually know what I'm doing.

Like it doesn't suck.

And also if you want to work with me, then here's me.

So that's what I've been thinking about it.

Daniel, what about you like social is kind of your jam, right?

I oh yeah, totally.

Um, if you look at my Instagram feed, I think I posted two

years ago was my last one.

And I think I have four total pictures and one of them might be my dog.

Um, so no, I don't do so.

I kind of like what Brian was saying, like I'm in the podcast

groups answering questions.

Um, but as far as like PR like creating content is not something I

do right now, um, because I've been fortunate that I've been able to grow

the business through word of mouth.

Um, so I don't really have a need.

And so with that being said that I have not put an effort into social media.

One thing that makes me hesitant from what I've seen in podcast groups

is that the majority of people are.

That are on social media and podcasting.

Um, looking for answers are new to podcasting and hobbyists.

Um, and they are not.

So if I were to do social media, I'd have to make sure that I target very

well because I don't want to attract all podcasts because most of them wouldn't

be a, they're not my ideal client.

Like they wouldn't be able, they wouldn't be willing to pay what I charge.

So I'd have to like, be very strategic in targeting who I want.

How

about you, Stevie?

Are you, uh, are you working on that?

I had a good go at it last year for a few months and

with everything that I had going on, I was like, I need to drop this,

but, um, it's interesting because.

I feel like, you know, certainly as a creative it's like, you need

to have a social media presence and you need to, you know, post

some fun facts about podcasting.

Like, I don't know, there were 2 million podcasts at the beginning

of 2019 or whatever, and then it just blew up or whatever, and it,

and like interesting facts about podcasts that people might not know.

And, you know, just sort of say, oh, Hey, you know, I noticed don't let podcasting,

you should hire me for your next job.

Um, but I am starting to see a lot of people, again, sort of in this sort

of female sort of non binary space posting a lot of rules about like, oh,

hi, to make your podcast successful.

And I'm so curious about it because I'm like how much of this is good

content or good advice, um, slash you know, and, um, and I think from my

perspective, like I have, I'm not, I'm not, not to say that I'm, I'm an expert.

I'm not an expert.

I don't, I'm not an audio engineer, but I do have a fairly long

background in radio and an audio.

But I, I do wonder how much of it is style over substance.

And, you know, part of me is curious to explore that and I like, and I'll

be honest, I've bought a couple of these sort of like buy my course for

50 bucks and I'm like, okay, fine.

I'll buy your course for 25 bucks or 50 bucks.

And I'll see what you offer.

And I'm like, is it, do I think it's worth it?

And just to sort of see what people are positioning themselves as, and there

are some people that are like, Carrie is great and actually it's social media

and also has a lot of courses that she's, you know, she, she positioned

herself really well, but there are some people who I think are, are like very

Instagram pretty, um, that I don't think necessarily are up to scrub to Scruff.

That's not snuff.

Snuff.

Thank you.

I was going to say scrubs snuff, um, when it comes to the actual, like value

of the content that they're providing.

Yeah.

I don't, I mean, I've seen a couple of people, like I think paroma,

I've seen some of her reals and.

I'm familiar with her.

I don't know about any courses or anything.

I don't know that she has any, but definitely the content that I see her

putting out on Instagram is solid.

Like she she's putting out stuff that I'm like, yeah, I could stand behind that.

Um, I mean, we have different styles, but that's fine.

You know, she's, she's putting out the truth.

I think that's great.

Yeah.

Oh, she's she's killing it.

Uh, Ashley commented.

Yeah.

I've always found it difficult to find the right balance of posting enough

on social media and feeling completely overwhelmed by it as an artist and

an audio editor slash engineer.

I haven't posted yet this week on Instagram.

Cause I just got overwhelmed with the production process.

So I was going for three times a week.

Like I know you're supposed to do multiple times a day.

I'm like, forget it.

I can, maybe I can do Monday, Wednesday, Friday this week.

Nothing.

We'll see you button next

week.

Yeah.

I mean, there are ways to do it, I guess, where you sort of plan

out your month and it depends what you do.

Some of your stuff is evergreen, and then you can just like take

a day planet, get later gram or whatever, and then just it's done.

Um, it depends what you, what your podcast is or what it is that you do.

And if it's, you know, going to be topical or not, um, if your podcast

is news topical, good luck because you have to be on it all the time.

Like thank you.

But like, you know, if you're, if you're a nerd like me and you do star Trek or

whatever, you can just create memes and do it all in a day and then you're done.

Um, although I, I admit I'm, I'm slightly behind on doing that, but it can be done.

It's easy.

Do you know Kelly, right?

No.

Oh, Kelly, right?

Yes.

I think it's a Kelly.

Yes.

Kelly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I see.

She's always talking about star Trek.

I think we have connected and all that.

Yeah.

I love, I love the world of Facebook and social media.

Yeah, one of the things I'm wondering about your

transition, uh, cause we've talked about the, the day job and how that's

coming to an end due to some stuff.

W besides getting clients, have you done anything to help prepare yourself,

uh, financially or legally or whatever to start making this transition?

Um, that's partly a lie.

It's slightly tricky because of my situation.

So I, I have one of the things that I want to do is create an LLC, um,

so that I can one expense stuff.

Um, The things that I'm, you know, there, there are a few things that I'm investing

in and I want to, to offset them tax wise.

So from a sort of tax and legal perspective, that's

certainly what I want to do.

I'm I need to consult somebody about whether or not I can do that within

this particular period before, because as I say, I'm, I'm currently waiting

for a green card, so I'm not sure what I'm allowed to do within this period.

So yeah.

But yes, I have considered that.

Um, and again, I think, you know, this is a period where I'm in some

sorts of limbo and, but I think it's certainly worth getting an LLC because

my investment in myself and, um, my business, even whether my business is

going to be, you know, if I, if I, you know, say for instance, I decide that

I want to work for a production company or, you know, do something in, in, you

know, a vein where I'm, I'm considered an employee versus self-employed.

Then I still think having my.

Company would allow me to do some of this sort of tax stuff, which I

think would be really beneficial.

But I think I would still want to continue doing my own clients on the side, in

which case it would still be beneficial.

So yes, I have considered it.

Um, and there is, uh, somebody, I think, within the, the sheet podcast space that

I've, I've spoken to about doing that.

Cool.

Yeah.

That's, that's something I continue to think about as well.

So I'm interested in your perspective,

have you, you

and you haven't done it yet?

Um, I have not yet formed an LLC.

I do have a business license and all that stuff, but I've not yet

formed an LLC, which is on my list.

Uh, it's probably not quite as expensive in Tennessee as it is in,

uh, New York, but it's not free.

Well, Brian, so Heather asked earlier in the Facebook group.

Um, so I'm curious what your thoughts are as you kind of look forward, but

like having a financial, like an umbrella saved up in order to kind of be stable.

Yeah.

So I have some thoughts and I'm not there yet, but I

think when I think about trying to make sure that I'm comfortable and I'm not

putting my family at undue risk, right.

Where my thoughts are, would be call it savings in the range of four to

six months of basic expenses for the business, as well as for the family.

Right?

So the mortgage gets paid, the electricity stays on.

I still have the internet so I can work.

Uh, and then probably somewhere in the range of 50 to 70% of what I would

call salary replacement, which is actually ideally more right, because

you have to plan for taxes differently and there's some other I got.

And so my mind is in the range of 50 to 70%, but that would be 50 to 70%

based on what I think I would take home from the business after I've

covered taxes and covered expenses.

Um, and so I'm not quite sure.

But it's a squishy number, but that's where I'm at or where I want

to be.

So I do want to go back because Andrea, let me see if I can find out

how to comment that I wanted to cover.

Yeah.

Uh, so Andrea said, my challenge with structure is how much time

to allocate to client work versus admin versus business growth.

It's like one part always seems to get the short shift or shrift anyway.

So I know for me, like that's something I continually struggle with.

Like for me, it's easy to designate enough time for client work, because

like, I have deadlines if I want to get paid and want to retain these

clients, I have to do client work.

But as far as like business growth or up-skilling, or, um, admin tasks,

because those are self-imposed deadlines.

I struggle with that a little bit.

So, do you guys have like any strategies or like how you handle it?

My strategy would be to not use my strategy because it should

be, what I would like to do is probably 30 to 60 minutes, a day of business

development that would be developing content or relationship building or

CRM management, that kind of thing.

Uh, maybe ideally not more than 60 minutes a day of admin work and then the

rest dedicated to production time or to strategic thinking or that kind of stuff.

I'm not anywhere near that.

I'm more like an hour a week maybe on, so on the things that

actually matter for future growth.

Yeah.

I think like admin work is for me, like less than probably you would expect.

So I spend like.

That's when a couple of hours, the first week of each month, just like finishing,

wrapping up the previous month, getting all my, um, expenses in order to anything

catalyze, reconciling my accounts, like to find like the accounting side of things.

Um, but beyond that, I don't really have a whole lot that I dedicate

to like actually running the business beyond my client work.

It's like upscaling and designating time to actually like improve

myself as we're I struggle with,

um, have you guys thought about, I mean, and I don't know if this

has worked for you, but, um, and again, this is purely because of my corporate

background is if I want to, like, if I want to do that, if I want to use my

time for something, I will block it out and I will just do it within that time.

And that means that no one can book time with me.

Um, and that's the time that I dedicate to doing something.

I think that's a good strategy that I need to implement

is like just having a routine.

It's like this time, like you're saying like, is it designated to whatever

test and just kinda like get into a routine where I honor that each

week and it just becomes a habit.

I would say that I do that to some extent, probably

not as strategically as I should, so I don't necessarily go next week,

Friday, I'm going to do two hours of personal development, which is

what I would do at my corporate job.

Um, I tend to be more like I'm caught up on production work so I can either

try and pull stuff ahead or I can invest in, you know, learning or business

development or something like that.

And so I tend to make the decision a little bit more laissez-faire

than I should, but that's, that's how, um, good, bad and ugly.

That's how I do

it in this room to be flexible because, and the way that I

think about it is like, if I work out, um, So I'll have my five days and I'll

do whatever I do during those five days that I consider to be sort of

working out and I will have at least one day that's like mobility or yoga.

And I might go down to the gym and be like, yeah, I'm going to jump on the

Peloton or I'm going to lift some weights.

And I'm like, I really don't feel like it.

Maybe today's why mobility day.

And so then, you know, it's, it's so applying it back to the structuring

of when do you do your admin, w when do you do your development?

Um, it, you may be more productive, or you may not want to, I'm not

saying procrastinate, but you may have days where it's better for you

to do it certain days than others.

Um, and somewhat, maybe trusting yourself to do that, but it's giving yourself the

freedom and the flexibility to change the hard structure that you set for yourself.

W one of the things I so appreciate about this conversation

is it's highlighting some of the lies.

I like to tell myself, so

yeah.

So I want to add just one final thought.

As far as like structure goes is make sure that you give yourself time off.

It's really easy when you work from home and like you run your own business

to spend all your time on the business and not just take time for yourself.

And when, when I do like there's some guilt associated, like there's

work, I could be doing that.

I shouldn't be doing blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Like you need time off.

You need time to just kinda be, to enjoy yourself.

So don't be making sure you give yourself that and don't feel guilty about it.

Amen.

So as we wrap up the show, Brian, do you want to hit us with our

pod question of the episode?

Yes.

I've been waiting this whole episode to do this.

I forgot to give you a choice.

So we just got stuck with the one that I drew out of the thing,

but today's podcast, pod decks.

Question of the day slightly modified is who's your favorite hero of podcasting?

I'm going to let Daniel answer this first.

Oh

wow.

I like that.

You go first.

You're the one that I have no guests rules

my hero of podcasting.

I say,

since she's not here, my hero of podcasting will be Carrie

because not only is she excellent at what she does, but she's an incredible

advocate for podcasting and for making sure that people get the attention

that they do deserve, not just the same three people over and over.

I'll second that I think like I have yet to meet Carrie in person.

We have spoken, but I see Carrie consistently raise people up.

And I love that.

I, you know, I know that like the Xi podcast group is great for doing

that, but Carrie is really good at it.

Yeah.

Unfortunately, Carrie couldn't join us due to internet outage

that she's been dealing with.

She says,

that's how you get very close to Mike.

And you say that

stumped on Don.

I don't think there's much proximity effect on this.

Sorry.

I think I do have a done, done, done.

I'm not sure if my, uh, I've got my red mic on, but

so for me, um, I know we talk about them all the time, but

Steve Stewart, uh, just in my experience, it's what he's done with the podcast

editors club that, um, empowered me to actually charge what I'm worth.

And without that, I wouldn't have been able to.

Do this full time.

Cause I just, I was undercharging by so much and because of the group, because of

what he's done, um, I realized my worth.

So Steve Stewart,

I love Steve.

He's great.

I love his, um, his quarterly emails.

So I dunno, I dunno if you guys did this, but I replied to some email

and it was like, what are your, what are your goals for the year?

And I like, he checks in every quarter and he has a full

conversation with you about it.

I love that.

And he's, he's just, I, I, yeah, I absolutely agree with that.

Um, but if I have to choose somebody different, the two that you've chosen,

um, mine would be Elsie, Elsie Escobar.

Nice.

Okay.

Yeah.

I love Elsie.

She's.

She's great.

Um, so supportive, no question is a stupid question.

Like given what she does and how integrated she is and everything.

Um, what, she's, what she and Jess had been able to create where she podcasts,

I think has been it's it's all inspiring.

It's great.

Love it.

Thank you so much for coming on the show, Stevie.

Um, it's been absolutely wonderful and thank you everybody.

Who's here watching live, and those that are listening, um, to the podcast.

If you want to be a guest on the show, Brian, do you wanna let them know what to

do?

Oh yeah, this is, this is the best go to podcast editors,

mastermind.com/be a guest.

That's all one word slash be a guest, put all your information

in there and hit send.

And that will magically transport it directly to Daniel's spam folder.

And every couple of weeks he will check that and he will find your email and he

will pull it out and he will email you back and we'll work to get you set up,

uh, so that we can get you on this show.

Whether you're an expert with something you want to share with

the community, or if you've got questions, there's a business struggle.

You're working on something like that.

Or you just want to hang out and chat about how.

Podcasts, edit and change your life.

I don't know.

All that kind of stuff.

Podcasts, editors, mastermind.com/be a

guest.

Oh, could you make it be our guests?

And then we could sing the song.

We

talked about that, but then there's Disney.

Like they're super like they will Sue you.

Yes, they will.

Listen guys.

Thank you so much for having me on.

It's been, it's been so enlightening to have this conversation with you

and I really appreciate, thank you.

This has been fun.

Uh, I'm Daniel Abendroth.

You can find me at Roth media audio.

I am Brian and Springer.

You can find me@toptieraudio.com.

Oh, hi, I'm CV fans.

And you can find me at Stevie Kent dull NYC.

It's not confusing.

I just got married and changed my name

and Carrie Coffield.

Eric could not join us tonight, but you can find her@yalepodcasting.com.

Thank you so much.

And we'll see you next time.