Welcome to Podcasting Tech, a podcast that equips busy

entrepreneurs engaged in podcasting with proven and cost effective

solutions for achieving a professional sound and appearance. I'm

Matthew Passi, your host and a fifteen year veteran in the podcasting

space. We'll help you cut through the noise and offer guidance on software and

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podcast platform, and join us on this exciting journey to unlock the full

potential of your podcast. Taking you out

to Colorado today, we are chatting with Caroline Hull. She's a

podcast business strategist at Wild Home Podcasting.

You can find her at wildhomepodcasting.com. Caroline, thank

you so much for joining us today. Thank you so much for having me.

It is a pleasure to chat with you and, you know, we always like to

talk to people about how they kinda made their way into podcasting, and

yours is interesting because you started in a completely different

industry. You talk about being in ballet and choreography. So how do you

turn Love of That into a podcast business?

Yeah. I don't think we have enough time to go through the whole journey.

But I so through a series of events,

I was actually a greeting card designer. So I had

done ballet. That was my major in college. I was injured,

had to move back home, did some grant writing,

did some various jobs, decided to design my own wedding

invitations, started a greeting card company. So I was in the

creator, maker, greeting card world, happened to be in a forum one day. I

mean, this is almost ten years ago, and was like, I think it would be

cool to start a podcast. And somebody commented and said, yeah. I think it would

be cool to start a podcast too, but I don't wanna do it by myself.

And so without even knowing each other, we started a podcast, and

we grew, a wonderful podcast. We grew a huge

community. We had products associated with that podcast. It was called the

Creative Biz Rebellion. My cohost was Kelly. She was amazing.

And then just because of life events, we ended up, not doing that

anymore. But during the course of working on that

podcast, I became, like, the back end

person. I ran everything that had to do with the podcast on

the back end. She was, like, the face. She did the course creation, all of

that. And we would have people on the show, and they would be like,

oh, do you edit podcast? And I'd be like, well. And it

just snowballed from there. And before I knew it, I had a podcast agency.

That's amazing. And, yeah, that that's so many so many

production companies and agencies start the exact same way, right? They're

handling it for themselves or, you know, maybe they're helping out a friend and next

thing you know, someone like, I really like your work. Can you do it for

me? You're like, I guess so. Yeah. Why don't we why don't we do

that? So in this day and age, right, there's been

all this writing about the the burst of the podcasting bubble,

the demise of the podcasting, blah blah blah. Yeah. I don't feel that way

either. But I guess I'm curious where you're at

as far as, you know, how you view the industry right now, how you view

the space. Like, what is the opportunity for podcasters? And

I understand that, you know, most of your clients are really brands and small

businesses who are using this. It's not just, you know, hey. I like to chat.

Let me get my friend on the podcast, and we'll talk and, you know, be

cool. But, right, there's there's a little bit more objective behind it. So what do

you see with the podcasters you're working with? Yeah. You know, I think it's

really interesting because I feel like

even though people are talking about, you know, like you

said, the demise of podcasting, I'm seeing a lot of growth on my

end, not just in opportunity, but in

listenership. And I know that there was a survey that came

out, at the beginning of or towards the end of last

year, and it showed that listenership had actually grown.

And the cool thing is that is that listenership is growing among women,

which works really well for me because I mostly work with female business owners

who are using their podcast as a piece of their marketing.

What I think is so special about podcasting, even with

all the video that is going on with YouTube and short form

video kind of bursting into the scene and being how a lot of people are

interacting, There's something so special about literally

having people in your ear chatting. And what I think

is so incredible about the medium is being able to sit down and really refine

your messaging. And so for my clients, what they're able to do

is use their podcast as a bridge between that video content,

between that short form content to their actual

services, to their business, that sort of thing. I've

also really found that using it strategically and having, like you said, an

objective, a goal for your podcast, is so much more

helpful for business owners than just sitting down and recording episodes and hoping that

someone listens. I definitely think that there is room to

stand out and really find your niche in podcasting right now.

I just saw a number the other day that was like, there's only

381,000 active podcasts out

of the, you know, million that are actually in the apps.

And so to me, that just screams opportunity. And

so that's really what I work on people with is finding their niche, getting really

clear on their messaging so that the right people are finding them. So

when you say this strategy, right, we we used to work with clients as well.

And for some of those clients, it was just, let me get guests on the

show and that'll be a networking opportunity, or let me put this stuff out there

and make myself look cool and smarter and, you know, bigger than I

actually am. But you're really talking about the

show itself, like the strategy behind what content you put out

there, how you organize the episodes, what are some of the things that you

think about? What are some of the questions that you will ask of your

clients and hosts about, you know, formulating that

strategy? I think the biggest thing is

once shifting your mindset. So instead of thinking of your podcast

as being this entity that sits over here, which a lot of

people do. So they'll have their Instagram strategy. They'll have their email

marketing strategy. They may even have a blog, and then they're like,

a podcast, and it's a completely separate thing. I like to pull it all

together, have it all work together, and really think of it as

part of the funnel. So it's not just a standalone thing that

sits over here. I hope people click. We actually are using it. We're

driving people from Instagram to the podcast to our opt in,

and then there's things that happen on the back end from there. The other thing

I like to think about with content, especially, is what's going on in your business?

What are your business goals? What are you working on right now? What are you

promoting right now? And how can you create content around that? How can you

create content that makes your ideal client feel seen and

heard in a way that they're not feeling seen and heard in a thirty second

video on Instagram? And so we really focus on creating I like to

call it content that converts. So, creating

content that hooks people in, shows them why

they might be experiencing this thing, tells them how, and then directs

them to something else that is within your business that's gonna lead to even

something else. So it really is, like, using your podcast as

a funnel and thinking about it in that way and less

of I'm just creating episodes. So you describe,

your strategy as profit over downloads. Right? We're we're too

focused on some of the wrong metrics. So what are the metrics

that you look at, and how

often do your clients see the kind of success that I think they were

hoping for? Or maybe they are surprised by, you know, how much success they get

off of this product? Because I think there is some frustration in the world with,

you know, the the ROI on podcasting. So many

people either can't see it, can't draw the line, or they're

not getting it, and I'm sure it's more an issue with strategy,

but, you know, what what can they learn from you and how you work with

clients? I really think that business owners come

into podcasting thinking, if I get a million downloads,

I will become famous and everybody will buy my things. Like,

I think there's this mentality of I need to get tons of

downloads so that way people will actually buy my things.

And what I like to focus on is what is your actual goal? Are you

trying to grow your membership? Are you trying to book more one on one clients?

What is the growth that you wanna see in that area? What's interesting is

when you shift your focus from the downloads to creating

content specifically for the purpose of your business

goals, you're going to see business, podcast growth.

You're gonna see those downloads go up because your content is more niche.

It's reaching the right people. You're doing growth activities around

your podcast that support not just growing the podcast,

but also your marketing and business goals. I have a

client that I worked with. We did a complete refresh of her podcast

and strategy. She was actually an Instagram strategist. So I

was like, okay, this is gonna be interesting working with somebody who's really good at

doing short form content. She had a podcast. It wasn't really working for

her. And she just posted on her Instagram, actually, the

other day the graph of the growth of her podcast

since working with me because her content is so much more aligned

now to what she's trying to achieve. And so she's

actually grown exponentially in downloads while

also booking more clients from her podcast. So

I really think that it's important when you're a business owner, you're

creating a podcast, that you're coming at it from, what

is my goal? Is my goal just to get downloads?

Is my goal to grow my email list? Is my goal to grow my membership?

Because that's really gonna help you determine the type of content you create and

how you talk about your offers or services, those kinds of things

within the episodes. So I

hear what you're saying, I totally agree, you know, spot on, same advice

I think I and many, many others in our position would give to

clients and how they would approach it. The the next question, the one that I

think is hard and and this Instagram person might be a

great kinda case study for her because of what it is that she

does, as well. How do you

right. We don't need the million downloads, but still, how do you

get your content in front of the right people?

What are right. Like, you can have the best strategy, the best

questions, the best guess, but if, you know, a podcast falls

in the woods and nobody hears it, right, does it have an impact?

And so what is it that you see as being

the most effective way for brands to get

people to, forget download, just

to know about focus, pay attention, right, care about the content

that they're putting out there. Yeah. I really think that having a

growth strategy is is an important piece of any podcast strategy.

And beyond, like, focusing on things like SEO and creating great

content, I like to do what it what I like to call

audience borrowing. So the thing about

podcast is there is an audience out there who wants to hear your

podcast. And like you said, they have to know about it. And so one of

the best things you can do if you're just starting out and you're

wanting to grow your audience is get on other podcasts because

people who are listening to podcasts wanna listen to more podcasts.

But you really have to be strategic about it. So who has an

audience similar to me? I have found that collaborations,

networking, guesting on other podcasts, having

guests on my podcast strategically, so not just having

someone on because I think they're gonna help boost my downloads, but someone that is

maybe has a similar audience and really is gonna bring some value to my audience

also helps me grow my podcast. I am not one of those people

who's like, you need to go out and run a bunch of ads in order

to grow your podcast and get in front of the right ears. I really think

it is about, like I said, collaborating,

networking, borrowing people's audiences, and doing it in a way that

feels like it's not taking over your life. It's not

taking over your podcast. And if you're really strategic about it, it can

work for you. So one of the things that this client that I mentioned

that she did was, and she's actually, like, a

super great example. Her name is Elizabeth Marbury, if anybody wants to go follow her

her Instagram. So she had a huge Instagram following, and

nobody was going from her Instagram to her podcast. I mean, I'm

talking, she has like thousands of people who follow her on

Instagram. She used to be a wedding dance coach, and now she's an Instagram

strategist. So she dances in all of her videos. They're amazing.

And so that was part of what we talked about was like, how are we

gonna lead people from Instagram to your

podcast? And it really was about weaving in

the content, repurposing the content from the podcast episodes, but

also, like, how are we talking about the podcast on our Instagram? So

definitely go check out how she does it because it's pretty incredible. You'll notice

that she never really mentioned she has a podcast. It's in her bio,

and she just posted something about her podcast. But, generally, when she's posting, like,

go listen to my podcast, it's more of go check out my

free guide on how to do this. Because I think what we forget

is that these podcast episodes are packed full of

free information. Like, you don't need to be creating tons of PDF

freebies. You have this podcast. You have this library of

knowledge sitting over here and somebody can seriously bench through them

and learn so much. And so utilizing it. So I think,

you know, between that and working on a visibility strategy that

works for you, those are the two things that I really try and focus on

with my clients in building their audience. Love it. By the way, if you wanna

check her out, she is looks like at Elizabeth Marbury, m

a r b e r r y. Her podcast is called Strut

It if you want to check that out. Before we get to the

questions that I like to ask everybody, you brought up, you know, your focus of

working with mostly women clients and, you know, you bring up Elizabeth

here as a good example of what's going on and the opportunities for women in

podcasting. What advice do you

give or what advice would you give to women who are thinking about

podcasting and worrying that, you know, they're gonna get drowned

out or they're not gonna be able to break through the the, you know, the

proverbial podcast ceiling? And also,

what would you say to men in the podcasting space as far

as how they can take advantage of, you know, this trend of

women both engaging in podcasting and

podcast listening, not that that's new, but, right, the numbers just continue to creep

up. Yeah. But also, you know, getting in on the content creation

side. Yeah. I think

that the biggest piece of advice I have is that your

voice is super important. Your perspective is super important. A

way I tell my clients all the time is there is someone out there who's

looking for you, who is looking for your content,

who is looking for exactly what you're saying, and they can't find

it. I mentioned, like, how important it is to feel seen and

heard in other people's content. And I really think that's

true, especially of women in podcasting, and I think that's why it's

so incredibly important for us to use our voices and to share

them. I think that

confidence doesn't come right away. So I always like to tell

people that I'm an INFJ. If you've ever read the Myers

Briggs, I am like the extreme introvert. I

was you know, I I feel like I was definitely one of those people

who was raised in the environment of it's better to be seen and

not heard. And so I really didn't have confidence in my voice. Podcasting

gave me that. Pod podcasting is how I

learned to cultivate my voice, to be strong in my

perspectives, to not be afraid to share. And so

dive in. You know, that's the great thing about podcasting too. It's audio only.

You can hide behind your microphone when you first get started. If you're not ready

for video and build that confidence, use it to help refine your

messaging and you will stand out. And I think as far as women

just in the podcasting industry, I

think it's just really important that we we hold space and we

hold space for everyone. And it's been really exciting

for me in the last couple of years to see the amount of women who

are podcasting, the amount of women who are in podcast marketing

and strategy. I feel like that's grown so much and

I think it's only gonna continue to grow. And I think just holding space

for them, like, you know, being on podcasts like this is so

cool for me because I know that when I started podcasting, there were

not a lot of voices like mine out there. So, yeah, I

think it's just really neat to see how the industry is growing and changing and

evolving, and I'm excited to see where it goes from here. Love

it. As a reminder, we are chatting with Caroline Hall. She's the podcast business

strategist at Wild Home Podcasting. The link

is wildhomepodcasting.com. Caroline, before we let you go, the

questions we'd like to ask everybody. First up, is there a place in the world

of podcasting, and this could be recording, production,

distribution, marketing, consumption, but is there something that you

would wanna see changed, in the podcasting

space, to make it easier or better?

Oh, gosh. I I think the thing that I

am curious to see is accessibility and how

that evolves. I think that a lot there has

been so much evolution in the technology that a lot of things on

podcasting are so much easier than they used to be. I remember when I started,

I had to Google for days to find out any information, and I was like,

what is an RSS feed? And stuff is so much

easier to do yourself now, which I think is incredible. We have

tools like Descript and ChatGPT. But I think that the thing

that I'm really excited to see improvement on is,

how people are able to consume podcast who maybe

cannot listen to it or don't have the ability to do that. I know that

Apple Podcasts recently added, transcription, which I was,

like, so excited to see, and I'd love to see that across the board and

in other places. So, yeah, that's the thing that I think still needs improvement, and

I'd love to see improved. Love it. What about

your technology wish list? Is there a piece of

hardware or a piece of software that either is out there that

you wanna buy that you haven't or something that hasn't been made yet that you'd

love to see created to make your life as either

the strategist or as a podcaster easier?

I just wish there was, like, a magical tool

like Descript Studio Sound and

my lovely super complicated iZotope

software that, like, work together. Because as much

as I love Descript and studio sound, it doesn't do all the things.

And, you know, my clients, they love Descript,

but when we're editing for people, we're still pulling stuff into iZotope and running

all kinds of filters. And I would love I think that we're getting

closer to there being easier things, but, you

know, there's gotta be some kind of combination of the two

for regular people. I think that would be amazing. Love

that. And finally, are there any particular podcasts,

a few, one or two that you will absolutely

stop what you're doing and listen to when a new episode drops or, you know,

you're not gonna let them go, unlisten to in your

feed? Yes. Yes. One of my

favorites is, one of the

podcasts, like literally any podcast that BBC puts

out. Like they have a fantastic series called, which I

love stuff like that. So it's so funny because I work on business podcasts,

but I do not listen to business podcasts. I actually love to listen to like

storytelling documentary style podcast. I think somewhere

in my future, there's a documentary podcast in my future. My daughter and

I have talked about starting one about space. So anytime BBC

puts out anything, I'm like, let me listen to that. And then the newsworthy,

if you are not listening to the newsworthy, I highly recommend it. It's Erica

Mandy. It's the news in, like, ten minutes. She covers

everything you need to hear, and it's not biased. It's just the

news, and I love it. I'm trying to do a news detox right

now. And so having her podcast available every morning, she

releases a new episode. Like, I would love to just be a fly on the

wall on how she does that. So, definitely go check her out because it's

amazing. Love it. It's the newsworthy. We will drop a link in here for

anybody who wants to check it out as well. Carolyn Hull,

podcast business strategist at Wild Tone Podcasting, thank you so much for

joining us today. Today. Thank you so much. This was so fun. Thanks for

joining us today on Podcasting Tech. There are links to all the

hardware and software that help power our guest content and

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while you're there. Thanks, and we'll see you next time on Podcasting

Tech.