1 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:08,270 Thanks for being with us today on our New Year's Eve special on 2 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:11,329 Transit Unplugged, the world's leading transit executive podcast. 3 00:00:11,660 --> 00:00:14,639 I have with me a new friend, Rudy Salo, from L. 4 00:00:14,639 --> 00:00:14,949 A. 5 00:00:15,165 --> 00:00:18,395 He and I today are going to delve into what we think are the hottest 6 00:00:18,405 --> 00:00:20,855 topics coming for transit in 2025. 7 00:00:20,855 --> 00:00:21,755 Rudy, welcome to the show. 8 00:00:22,055 --> 00:00:23,255 Paul, thank you very much. 9 00:00:23,265 --> 00:00:27,755 And I love the fact that this is being released in 2025, because dare I say 10 00:00:27,775 --> 00:00:33,314 2025 could be one of the most exciting years in transportation as we know it. 11 00:00:33,494 --> 00:00:34,004 Really? 12 00:00:34,074 --> 00:00:34,794 Tell me why. 13 00:00:35,094 --> 00:00:39,104 There's, there's a lot of very interesting reasons why. 14 00:00:39,535 --> 00:00:44,945 I think that For the first time in my lifetime, when I'm talking about 15 00:00:44,945 --> 00:00:48,924 transportation, people are not just rolling their eyes going, oh my God, this 16 00:00:48,925 --> 00:00:50,675 guy's talking about this boring topic. 17 00:00:50,675 --> 00:00:50,874 Right. 18 00:00:50,904 --> 00:00:53,645 And by the way, to be fair, I don't hang out with a bunch of transit. 19 00:00:53,945 --> 00:00:54,845 folk, right? 20 00:00:54,845 --> 00:00:57,364 I mean I hang out with I was right about to say normal people, 21 00:00:57,364 --> 00:00:58,254 but that's pretty insulting. 22 00:00:58,654 --> 00:01:03,305 I hang out with non transit professionals Most of the time I 23 00:01:03,305 --> 00:01:06,864 happen to be the one that's the most passionate about transit, but people 24 00:01:06,864 --> 00:01:10,194 are talking about transportation What are they talking about Paul? 25 00:01:10,264 --> 00:01:11,874 They're talking about robo taxis. 26 00:01:12,155 --> 00:01:15,924 I happen to live in Los Angeles robo taxis have been launched here That 27 00:01:15,924 --> 00:01:19,615 they're not yet in my area of Los Angeles, because I live in the South 28 00:01:19,615 --> 00:01:23,675 Bay, kind of close to LAX, and they currently don't go to LAX, but I'm sure 29 00:01:23,675 --> 00:01:25,654 with the Olympics coming here, Yeah. 30 00:01:25,695 --> 00:01:27,294 It's, something's gonna happen. 31 00:01:27,594 --> 00:01:30,225 People are talking about electric vehicles. 32 00:01:30,485 --> 00:01:32,445 They're talking about, oh, the credit's going away. 33 00:01:32,474 --> 00:01:34,464 Oh, what kind of charger do you have? 34 00:01:34,465 --> 00:01:35,645 Oh, do you have a hybrid? 35 00:01:35,664 --> 00:01:38,905 Oh, what kind of EV do you, I mean, it's, it's very, very 36 00:01:38,905 --> 00:01:40,185 exciting to talk about EVs. 37 00:01:40,485 --> 00:01:46,755 I also think that, people are, look, like, I, I, I hate to, this, I hate to point 38 00:01:46,755 --> 00:01:49,155 out a big name in, in transportation. 39 00:01:49,255 --> 00:01:52,425 and I, and I, I'm not trying to start off controversially in any way, shape, 40 00:01:52,425 --> 00:01:57,845 or form, but Elon Musk brings a lot of attention to the transportation industry. 41 00:01:58,195 --> 00:02:00,924 For whatever, whatever you feel about him. 42 00:02:00,924 --> 00:02:01,884 Yeah, absolutely. 43 00:02:01,885 --> 00:02:05,635 The world's richest man happens to be in transportation, Paul. 44 00:02:05,655 --> 00:02:08,115 So obviously we're going to talk about transportation. 45 00:02:08,495 --> 00:02:11,730 And I think a lot of people are, people are going to be focusing on 46 00:02:11,970 --> 00:02:16,450 what this new Department of Government Efficiency is going to do, what 47 00:02:16,450 --> 00:02:19,370 it's not going to do, and how that's going to affect transportation. 48 00:02:19,370 --> 00:02:24,320 I think, I think this could be an extremely important couple of years. 49 00:02:24,620 --> 00:02:25,850 Yeah, I'm right with you, Rudy. 50 00:02:25,850 --> 00:02:27,619 I think this we're at a pivotal time. 51 00:02:27,900 --> 00:02:31,750 I've been in conversations And we're recording this in December, but I've 52 00:02:31,750 --> 00:02:36,010 been in conversations just in the last two weeks, with a number of top public 53 00:02:36,010 --> 00:02:41,030 transportation executives, CEOs, company, CEOs, they're all, you know, a little bit 54 00:02:41,030 --> 00:02:45,230 of trepidation, but a lot of opportunity, Rudy, I just was in LA, right? 55 00:02:45,230 --> 00:02:50,290 So our last episode of Transit Unplugged TV, for this past month, of November, 56 00:02:50,690 --> 00:02:56,439 was from Los Angeles, and we filmed there an episode with the, the top leaders at 57 00:02:56,500 --> 00:03:01,670 LA Metro, with some of the top leaders at LADOT, and they were talking about 58 00:03:01,690 --> 00:03:04,730 a car free, transit first Olympics. 59 00:03:05,030 --> 00:03:08,860 Now, as we mentioned in the opening, you have a blog, you have a podcast, 60 00:03:08,870 --> 00:03:12,640 you're, you know, in addition to being an attorney and someone who kind of advises 61 00:03:12,640 --> 00:03:16,880 the transportation industry in a lot of aspects, especially when it comes to 62 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:21,329 financing bonds, et cetera, municipal bonds, you're, you're deeply involved 63 00:03:21,329 --> 00:03:23,169 and ingrained in the LA Metro scene. 64 00:03:23,219 --> 00:03:26,539 Give us some of your predictions or what your thoughts are about. 65 00:03:26,729 --> 00:03:28,179 Where LA Metro is now. 66 00:03:28,179 --> 00:03:32,439 I mean, we just did a podcast with Steven Tu, who's the head of station experience. 67 00:03:32,439 --> 00:03:35,009 I think you listened to that one where he talked about the kind of the new 68 00:03:35,009 --> 00:03:39,389 things they're doing there to, to address vandalism, crime on the system, 69 00:03:39,389 --> 00:03:43,289 people feeling safe, doubling down on fares like a lot of systems are. 70 00:03:43,289 --> 00:03:46,149 Give us your general thoughts and then where you think we're headed on the 71 00:03:46,149 --> 00:03:49,229 Olympic preparations for, you know, a car for, you know, they're gonna have 72 00:03:49,229 --> 00:03:50,919 to borrow 2000 buses and all that. 73 00:03:50,919 --> 00:03:53,529 Any thoughts you have on that being that you're right there in LA? 74 00:03:53,829 --> 00:03:56,389 Absolutely, and I'm really glad you brought up that topic because I'm 75 00:03:56,389 --> 00:04:00,659 somebody that's extremely passionate about transportation in Los Angeles. 76 00:04:00,719 --> 00:04:04,899 I think you saw the video that I posted of, of, of me in my office when I, when 77 00:04:04,899 --> 00:04:10,719 I had just put up a map of the Pacific Electric Railway, that a map from 1926. 78 00:04:11,099 --> 00:04:14,339 And then right underneath it is a, is like an artistic rendering of 79 00:04:14,339 --> 00:04:18,716 the LA So when I say I think about this stuff, I think about it with 80 00:04:18,726 --> 00:04:20,386 deep passion and I care about it. 81 00:04:20,656 --> 00:04:22,866 So I happen to live in the South Bay of Los Angeles. 82 00:04:22,876 --> 00:04:25,816 South Bay is everything that's kind of south of LAX. 83 00:04:26,156 --> 00:04:30,316 Traditionally, the South Bay was one of the first areas of Los Angeles 84 00:04:30,316 --> 00:04:34,126 that was serviced by the Green Line, right, which was called, which 85 00:04:34,126 --> 00:04:35,906 was called the train to nowhere. 86 00:04:35,916 --> 00:04:38,816 It happened to go to North Redondo Beach to Norwalk. 87 00:04:39,196 --> 00:04:41,806 It's funny because I happened to grow up pretty close to Norwalk 88 00:04:41,806 --> 00:04:44,836 and then, and then I lived in North Redondo Beach for a long time. 89 00:04:45,136 --> 00:04:49,326 And that, and that train has now, I bring this up because that train has now been 90 00:04:49,326 --> 00:04:53,466 converted as of a month ago to the new K line, which is going to be, you know, kind 91 00:04:53,466 --> 00:04:55,586 of along the west side of Los Angeles. 92 00:04:55,816 --> 00:05:00,296 And right now there's a disconnect between the, the K line isn't complete yet. 93 00:05:00,471 --> 00:05:04,021 But hopefully soon it's going to go right through the LAX People 94 00:05:04,021 --> 00:05:05,921 Mover and connect to the expo line. 95 00:05:06,271 --> 00:05:09,461 So right now I happen to be living in an area that's like 96 00:05:09,461 --> 00:05:11,291 in this weird transit desert. 97 00:05:11,591 --> 00:05:17,991 So if I sound a little bit Irritated it's because I can't my my current transit 98 00:05:18,011 --> 00:05:22,441 use has been disrupted But I'm hopeful for the future and I'm doubling down on 99 00:05:22,441 --> 00:05:27,021 hopeful for the future for the LA Metro for a lot of reasons Number one Paul I am 100 00:05:27,021 --> 00:05:32,551 seeing a lot more I'm seeing a lot more focus on, on making things safe on Metro. 101 00:05:32,851 --> 00:05:34,401 I use the Metro system. 102 00:05:34,401 --> 00:05:37,541 I use a combination of the light rail. 103 00:05:37,571 --> 00:05:39,111 I use the commuter express. 104 00:05:39,131 --> 00:05:40,561 I use buses. 105 00:05:40,561 --> 00:05:42,391 I use the silver line. 106 00:05:42,391 --> 00:05:44,891 I use the route two 32. 107 00:05:44,891 --> 00:05:47,901 I mean, I'm, I'm on the transit system and I like it. 108 00:05:48,251 --> 00:05:52,016 In fact, like, I actually try to plot out if I have, if I have a 109 00:05:52,016 --> 00:05:55,446 spare Sunday or some spare time, I'll actually plot out like different 110 00:05:55,486 --> 00:05:57,726 ways to get to places in Los Angeles. 111 00:05:57,736 --> 00:06:01,746 Like, for example, as a result of this transit disruption that, that occurred 112 00:06:01,746 --> 00:06:04,856 with the switching over from the C to K line, I tried to figure out, okay, 113 00:06:04,856 --> 00:06:09,826 well, how can I get to SoFi Stadium to go see the LA Rams by not using a car? 114 00:06:10,126 --> 00:06:14,116 Unfortunately, it wasn't an easy thing to do because of the disruption of this line, 115 00:06:14,116 --> 00:06:17,496 but hopefully soon enough that'll be all interconnected and I could just take the 116 00:06:17,496 --> 00:06:21,966 K line to the downtown Inglewood station and then have a shuttle over from there. 117 00:06:22,156 --> 00:06:25,456 Speaking of Inglewood, and speaking of the Olympics, and speaking of the 118 00:06:25,456 --> 00:06:30,136 future of the LA Metro system, There is some disappointment in the fact 119 00:06:30,146 --> 00:06:34,496 that the, the Inglewood, you know, it's called the, I forgot what it's called, 120 00:06:34,496 --> 00:06:38,536 the Inglewood connector where they were, they were planning on having a, 121 00:06:38,836 --> 00:06:41,176 a little small little, people mover. 122 00:06:41,506 --> 00:06:46,096 To connect you from the different rail lines to the stadiums that are 123 00:06:46,096 --> 00:06:48,406 now built in and around Inglewood. 124 00:06:48,406 --> 00:06:50,946 I don't know if you were here, if they took you around Inglewood, but 125 00:06:50,946 --> 00:06:54,346 that's going to be where a lot of the Olympics are going to take place because 126 00:06:54,346 --> 00:06:55,906 the new Clipper Stadium is there. 127 00:06:55,906 --> 00:06:57,096 It's called the Intuit Dome. 128 00:06:57,426 --> 00:07:03,296 We have the SoFi Stadium and there's a lot happening there for the Olympics and 129 00:07:03,306 --> 00:07:05,406 they, they've got to figure something out. 130 00:07:05,446 --> 00:07:08,676 I, unfortunately, I think light rail is out of the question. 131 00:07:08,976 --> 00:07:10,726 Because there's just not enough time. 132 00:07:10,786 --> 00:07:11,156 Right. 133 00:07:11,206 --> 00:07:13,446 And, Paul, it's kind of a pain. 134 00:07:13,546 --> 00:07:17,066 parking in, in that area is, is expensive. 135 00:07:17,106 --> 00:07:19,496 It's not an easy ingress. 136 00:07:19,496 --> 00:07:21,026 It's not easy egress. 137 00:07:21,326 --> 00:07:23,296 It's, it's kind of painful. 138 00:07:23,396 --> 00:07:30,316 And I do think that should be the area of focus over the next several years 139 00:07:30,346 --> 00:07:33,596 because there's just a lot happening in the Inglewood area, a lot of 140 00:07:33,606 --> 00:07:35,746 concerts, a lot of sporting events. 141 00:07:36,056 --> 00:07:41,126 So my hope is if anybody from LA Metro is listening to this, is that they do work 142 00:07:41,166 --> 00:07:43,266 on, on solving something for the Olympics. 143 00:07:43,266 --> 00:07:46,786 Now, is there actually going to be a car free Olympics? 144 00:07:46,836 --> 00:07:47,256 No. 145 00:07:47,296 --> 00:07:47,696 Why? 146 00:07:47,736 --> 00:07:50,721 Well, I just gave you one reason because there, I mean, the Inglewood 147 00:07:50,721 --> 00:07:52,431 people mover is not going to happen. 148 00:07:52,631 --> 00:07:55,401 I think when they first said that there was still hope that that was going to 149 00:07:55,401 --> 00:07:59,051 be built, but I think now as a result of that not getting built, that that 150 00:07:59,091 --> 00:08:00,491 is just not going to be a reality. 151 00:08:00,741 --> 00:08:02,651 Will it be mostly car free? 152 00:08:02,781 --> 00:08:03,361 I hope so. 153 00:08:03,631 --> 00:08:04,081 I hope so. 154 00:08:04,081 --> 00:08:08,341 I, I plan on, I plan on only using public transportation when the Olympics 155 00:08:08,341 --> 00:08:14,281 are here, and I'm hopeful that Los Angelinos will help out the tourists, 156 00:08:14,471 --> 00:08:16,601 help people out to navigate the system. 157 00:08:16,601 --> 00:08:19,421 The system, the system is not intuitive, Paul. 158 00:08:19,511 --> 00:08:23,691 I, still to this day, even though there's apps, even though you can go onto Google, 159 00:08:23,691 --> 00:08:29,871 even though Metro, I think, does a pretty good job of putting out information 160 00:08:30,171 --> 00:08:36,446 people just don't feel comfortable using transportation in Los Angeles. 161 00:08:36,486 --> 00:08:36,886 Why? 162 00:08:36,906 --> 00:08:39,776 Because we grew up, because we grew up with the car, you know, you, you 163 00:08:39,776 --> 00:08:41,846 figure out how to get around with a car. 164 00:08:42,236 --> 00:08:44,926 you know, back in the day, all of us, teenagers, all of us, gen Xers. 165 00:08:44,946 --> 00:08:46,216 We had a Thomas guide. 166 00:08:46,236 --> 00:08:48,776 Now these days with Google maps, you can drive everywhere. 167 00:08:49,076 --> 00:08:53,446 I do think though that there's hope for the with the younger generation 168 00:08:53,576 --> 00:08:57,613 because a lot of people a lot of younger kids are not even bothering 169 00:08:57,613 --> 00:08:59,423 getting their driver's licenses, right? 170 00:08:59,823 --> 00:09:04,583 And and I do think that we should be focusing on those people who don't want 171 00:09:04,583 --> 00:09:07,123 to drive we should be helping them. 172 00:09:07,153 --> 00:09:11,423 There should be more support for them I think that that is something where you 173 00:09:11,423 --> 00:09:15,963 know, I know this project that you and I are working on might be one of the focuses 174 00:09:15,983 --> 00:09:18,583 on is how can we help people not to drive? 175 00:09:18,583 --> 00:09:22,593 How can we help people navigate public transportation in an easier 176 00:09:22,593 --> 00:09:27,273 way and I yeah, I commend LA Metro for making it safer And I think that 177 00:09:27,283 --> 00:09:30,863 that needs to be the focus and they also need to get like, you know, like 178 00:09:31,273 --> 00:09:34,553 people ambassadors, people who know how to use the system to promote it. 179 00:09:34,773 --> 00:09:39,263 And that's what I try to do with that newsletter blog that I have, which I 180 00:09:39,263 --> 00:09:41,043 call The Commute, which is on Substack. 181 00:09:41,063 --> 00:09:45,063 I try to post videos of me riding Metro, and showing, you know, 182 00:09:45,143 --> 00:09:46,143 how to, how to navigate it. 183 00:09:46,153 --> 00:09:50,863 And I think if we can get more people excited about it on how to use it, then 184 00:09:50,863 --> 00:09:54,233 I think we'll get more people on it and it'll become a part of their daily life. 185 00:09:54,533 --> 00:09:54,913 Yeah. 186 00:09:55,133 --> 00:09:59,283 Rudy and I are talking about 2025 being the year that we do a potential 187 00:09:59,283 --> 00:10:03,943 documentary on public transportation and the challenge or question that 188 00:10:03,943 --> 00:10:07,693 we're talking about addressing potentially could be, you know, what's 189 00:10:07,693 --> 00:10:09,113 wrong with public transit America? 190 00:10:09,473 --> 00:10:12,683 I just had a guy on the podcast recently from Hong Kong. 191 00:10:12,723 --> 00:10:14,853 90% percent of the people in Hong Kong ride transit. 192 00:10:15,253 --> 00:10:18,633 I have people in London had this, the, the Transport for Commissioner in London, 193 00:10:18,633 --> 00:10:22,153 Andy Lord, who, you know, very high percentages, 40 to 50 percent of the 194 00:10:22,153 --> 00:10:23,927 people in London use transit in America. 195 00:10:24,227 --> 00:10:27,367 On a total average, especially outside of New York City, less than 5 196 00:10:27,367 --> 00:10:28,857 percent of people ride public transit. 197 00:10:29,167 --> 00:10:30,357 What in the world's going on here? 198 00:10:30,557 --> 00:10:33,677 why, so, so that's what we want to explore potentially in this thing. 199 00:10:34,107 --> 00:10:35,577 And I think it's that trust factor. 200 00:10:35,657 --> 00:10:39,097 And I don't mind that my friends and family and even some co 201 00:10:39,097 --> 00:10:41,577 workers reach out to me and say, how do I get from here to here? 202 00:10:41,587 --> 00:10:44,207 Even though they can literally type that in, they want to hear Yeah. 203 00:10:44,347 --> 00:10:45,177 me say it to them. 204 00:10:45,197 --> 00:10:45,607 That's right. 205 00:10:45,627 --> 00:10:45,747 Yeah. 206 00:10:45,747 --> 00:10:47,797 And explain the little tricks about it. 207 00:10:47,987 --> 00:10:49,097 So they feel more comfortable. 208 00:10:49,147 --> 00:10:53,157 Cause it's still, even though LA is building out this fantastic transportation 209 00:10:53,157 --> 00:10:56,827 system that I'm very excited about, it's still alien to some people 210 00:10:56,837 --> 00:10:58,357 because we didn't have it growing up. 211 00:10:58,367 --> 00:11:02,107 So, you know, I think having a documentary, having people talk 212 00:11:02,117 --> 00:11:04,807 about transportation, having people excited about it, having 213 00:11:04,807 --> 00:11:06,217 people make it entertaining. 214 00:11:06,517 --> 00:11:07,777 We'll take that 5%. 215 00:11:07,807 --> 00:11:11,567 Can you imagine if we went from five to 10%, Paul, I mean, how, how that 216 00:11:11,567 --> 00:11:15,687 would, how traffic would dissipate, how everything would, would, would occur. 217 00:11:15,987 --> 00:11:16,647 I don't know. 218 00:11:16,647 --> 00:11:19,207 I mean, I'm very excited for the future of LA Metro. 219 00:11:19,207 --> 00:11:22,747 What I'm, I, what I am curious about though, I haven't seen 220 00:11:22,757 --> 00:11:25,697 much talk about this yet, and I'm hoping, I'm hoping there's going 221 00:11:25,697 --> 00:11:27,307 to be more news stories about this. 222 00:11:27,557 --> 00:11:31,841 As I mentioned, robo taxis are, are now in Los Angeles, they're now in San Francisco 223 00:11:32,163 --> 00:11:35,957 . I'd like to see how those robo taxis are going to be serving some of these 224 00:11:35,987 --> 00:11:40,217 transit deserts, and how those are, you know, those are going to be used. 225 00:11:40,217 --> 00:11:46,807 Because otherwise, my opinion AVs, is what I think is somewhat controversial, 226 00:11:47,157 --> 00:11:52,417 in that to me, a robotaki is, is, is cute, and it's cute for social media, 227 00:11:52,657 --> 00:11:54,297 but it's just a car without a driver. 228 00:11:54,367 --> 00:11:59,277 And, and after, you know, you filmed it 20 or 15 times or 30 times that 229 00:11:59,277 --> 00:12:01,107 you're in a car without, who cares? 230 00:12:01,297 --> 00:12:04,387 Like, how is that solving a traffic problem? 231 00:12:04,687 --> 00:12:05,107 Right. 232 00:12:05,107 --> 00:12:07,397 It might actually add to it. 233 00:12:07,417 --> 00:12:08,497 Definitely going to add to it. 234 00:12:08,497 --> 00:12:11,237 And it's also, it's also, there's already new stories coming out 235 00:12:11,247 --> 00:12:14,357 about how ride share drivers, their, their earnings are dropping. 236 00:12:14,357 --> 00:12:18,457 I mean, you know, we're in, some people are suffering economically, right? 237 00:12:18,457 --> 00:12:20,747 I think that's why we've been seeing some political changes here. 238 00:12:21,037 --> 00:12:25,017 And so what ride share drivers, they're, they're now a big 239 00:12:25,017 --> 00:12:26,547 source of incomes going away. 240 00:12:26,847 --> 00:12:30,617 I don't know, like for me, the future of, of autonomous vehicles 241 00:12:30,667 --> 00:12:34,617 is if we're just literally taking jobs away from ride share drivers. 242 00:12:34,917 --> 00:12:36,107 I'm not interested in that. 243 00:12:36,407 --> 00:12:43,547 If we are having autonomous vehicles be a part of the existing transportation 244 00:12:43,547 --> 00:12:48,137 system, where we're literally, they have their own dedicated lanes, where 245 00:12:48,137 --> 00:12:51,837 they are away from human drivers, where they're, where they're just 246 00:12:51,837 --> 00:12:56,107 some minor little infrastructure tweaks so that, that, that these. 247 00:12:56,407 --> 00:12:57,957 Driverless cars can talk to each other. 248 00:12:57,957 --> 00:13:00,867 So they're not like turning around and honking and going in the wrong ways. 249 00:13:01,047 --> 00:13:04,467 If we just have these cars and they don't need to be full cars, right? 250 00:13:04,467 --> 00:13:05,797 They could be driverless pods. 251 00:13:05,797 --> 00:13:09,767 They could be smaller little vehicles and they're, and they compliment 252 00:13:09,797 --> 00:13:11,427 an existing transportation system. 253 00:13:11,517 --> 00:13:12,447 That excites me. 254 00:13:12,467 --> 00:13:16,597 To me, that's maximizing the use and efficiency of driverless technology. 255 00:13:16,897 --> 00:13:17,877 Robo taxis. 256 00:13:18,177 --> 00:13:19,667 I'm not very excited about them at all. 257 00:13:19,677 --> 00:13:20,357 That's my opinion. 258 00:13:20,357 --> 00:13:21,967 I know maybe that's a little bit too controversial. 259 00:13:21,967 --> 00:13:26,822 Maybe I'm angering some people, but I have been writing that for over a decade now. 260 00:13:26,822 --> 00:13:29,042 So I'm not trying to pick on any companies. 261 00:13:29,042 --> 00:13:30,462 I'm not trying to pick on anybody. 262 00:13:30,762 --> 00:13:31,772 That's just my opinion. 263 00:13:31,812 --> 00:13:34,952 I think we're not using utilizing them to their maximum 264 00:13:34,952 --> 00:13:36,502 use and safety and efficiency. 265 00:13:36,802 --> 00:13:40,432 Yeah, on the public transit side, you may be aware of this, but, Jacksonville 266 00:13:40,432 --> 00:13:43,432 Transit Authority, Nat Ford, the CEO, has been quite a visionary there, 267 00:13:43,432 --> 00:13:47,112 and he's developing, what they call the ultimate urban circulator in 268 00:13:47,112 --> 00:13:51,552 Jacksonville, where they have a separate, dedicated lanes that they already have, 269 00:13:51,702 --> 00:13:53,592 They already have some service on those lanes. 270 00:13:53,782 --> 00:13:56,522 They would expand it beyond the two and a half miles, and it 271 00:13:56,522 --> 00:13:57,642 would basically do what you said. 272 00:13:57,652 --> 00:14:02,302 It would be ten to twelve passenger mini buses, That are autonomous, that would 273 00:14:02,302 --> 00:14:07,552 run on regular schedules, that people could pick up, and, it would not interfere 274 00:14:07,552 --> 00:14:09,352 with existing traffic necessarily. 275 00:14:09,662 --> 00:14:13,232 it would do all the things we talked about, integrate into the overall network. 276 00:14:13,232 --> 00:14:14,452 There's a niche role. 277 00:14:14,692 --> 00:14:16,062 I just got back from Australia. 278 00:14:16,402 --> 00:14:18,522 And they're not doing much with autonomous vehicles there. 279 00:14:18,762 --> 00:14:20,712 And they asked me, you know, what do you see the role as? 280 00:14:20,712 --> 00:14:23,302 And I said, well, from my perspective, what's happening in the U. 281 00:14:23,302 --> 00:14:23,562 S. 282 00:14:23,562 --> 00:14:26,282 is we're refining what we think the role of them are. 283 00:14:26,282 --> 00:14:28,802 And it's a very niche application. 284 00:14:29,252 --> 00:14:32,402 If you have a college campus where parking is way away from the campus 285 00:14:32,672 --> 00:14:36,232 and it's roasting hot or freezing cold, it'd be great to have a little shuttle 286 00:14:36,232 --> 00:14:37,902 going back and forth all day long. 287 00:14:37,912 --> 00:14:41,772 You can get into it and go back and forth to your class or a business campus. 288 00:14:41,992 --> 00:14:44,592 But is it ever going to replace, you know, a 40 foot bus or a 289 00:14:44,592 --> 00:14:45,962 light rail vehicle or a train? 290 00:14:45,962 --> 00:14:46,702 Probably not. 291 00:14:47,082 --> 00:14:52,072 but it does lead us to the idea of individually owned autonomous taxi cabs, 292 00:14:52,072 --> 00:14:54,082 which are different than autonomous buses. 293 00:14:54,082 --> 00:14:58,242 And we talked about Elon Musk, you know, President elect Trump's new best friend. 294 00:14:58,542 --> 00:15:02,642 As they're calling him, he's, you know, obviously has Tesla and, while Trump 295 00:15:02,642 --> 00:15:06,922 is saying drill, baby, drill, in his, you know, in his pronouncements, you 296 00:15:06,922 --> 00:15:10,262 know, the his new best friend is saying, you know, I want electric vehicles. 297 00:15:10,262 --> 00:15:12,172 So do you see those two conflicting? 298 00:15:12,172 --> 00:15:12,422 Rudy? 299 00:15:12,432 --> 00:15:13,342 Any thoughts on that? 300 00:15:13,642 --> 00:15:14,172 No, I don't. 301 00:15:14,462 --> 00:15:16,782 I mean, do they conflict on the surface? 302 00:15:16,782 --> 00:15:17,422 Yeah, I do. 303 00:15:17,422 --> 00:15:21,152 But are we ever gonna completely eliminate fossil fuels? 304 00:15:21,452 --> 00:15:24,762 No, not, not, Paul, not in your lifetime and not in my lifetime. 305 00:15:24,772 --> 00:15:27,592 Like, that's just, although, if you listen to Good Is In The 306 00:15:27,592 --> 00:15:29,522 Details, it's a philosophy podcast. 307 00:15:29,702 --> 00:15:32,862 There's an ongoing joke about me trying to live forever. 308 00:15:33,022 --> 00:15:35,722 That it's a whole philosophy, fear of death type stuff. 309 00:15:35,752 --> 00:15:38,632 And, and like, I'm, so like, Elon's trying to put implants 310 00:15:38,632 --> 00:15:40,032 and transfer people to computers. 311 00:15:40,112 --> 00:15:42,412 So, Elon, I will, I will, I will volunteer. 312 00:15:42,452 --> 00:15:43,322 But that's not the point here. 313 00:15:43,622 --> 00:15:48,822 no, I, fossil fuels are, they're, they're an important part. 314 00:15:48,977 --> 00:15:49,497 Of the U. 315 00:15:49,497 --> 00:15:49,657 S. 316 00:15:49,657 --> 00:15:50,207 economy. 317 00:15:50,437 --> 00:15:52,487 They're an important part of our security and safety. 318 00:15:52,507 --> 00:15:56,247 They're an important part of our, you know, economic powerhouse here, right? 319 00:15:56,557 --> 00:16:00,797 What, what I like to see is the other day, I took my kids over to top 320 00:16:00,807 --> 00:16:06,947 golf here in El Segundo and the EV charging stations sponsored by Shell. 321 00:16:07,157 --> 00:16:07,427 Right. 322 00:16:07,467 --> 00:16:08,577 And that was, that was great. 323 00:16:08,657 --> 00:16:12,867 I love, I love to see that these traditional fossil fuel companies 324 00:16:12,887 --> 00:16:16,667 are getting more into clean energy and we can't just have an 325 00:16:16,667 --> 00:16:18,377 immediate transition overnight. 326 00:16:18,417 --> 00:16:19,037 Paul, that's just. 327 00:16:19,237 --> 00:16:19,867 It's just not going to happen. 328 00:16:20,237 --> 00:16:24,167 That's like me saying, Oh, driverless cars we should just rebuild the infrastructure 329 00:16:24,167 --> 00:16:27,427 and then we can all go to sleep in our pods and never have to drive it. 330 00:16:27,687 --> 00:16:29,967 It's going to be a slow transition. 331 00:16:30,157 --> 00:16:32,677 And that's why we need to double down on our infrastructure. 332 00:16:33,107 --> 00:16:33,417 Right. 333 00:16:33,467 --> 00:16:37,977 And that's why I'm such a big proponent of talking about infrastructure finance, 334 00:16:38,247 --> 00:16:42,847 talking about municipal bonds, educating people about the importance of municipal 335 00:16:42,847 --> 00:16:48,287 bonds, educating people about the importance of finance in a clean way. 336 00:16:48,637 --> 00:16:54,337 I mean, I'm, I'm not as worried about drill bill baby drill as I am, you 337 00:16:54,337 --> 00:16:56,527 know, about tax exemption going away. 338 00:16:56,587 --> 00:16:57,777 Well, let's talk about that. 339 00:16:58,097 --> 00:16:58,357 Yeah. 340 00:16:58,357 --> 00:16:59,427 It's a big deal. 341 00:16:59,577 --> 00:17:00,547 Let's switch over to that. 342 00:17:00,547 --> 00:17:03,027 I think that's a very interesting topic that people may not understand. 343 00:17:03,027 --> 00:17:03,817 Can you explain that? 344 00:17:04,117 --> 00:17:04,417 Sure. 345 00:17:04,527 --> 00:17:04,847 Okay. 346 00:17:04,937 --> 00:17:06,807 So United States, right. 347 00:17:07,107 --> 00:17:07,667 Great country. 348 00:17:07,967 --> 00:17:11,407 Guess what we have that no other country to my knowledge has 349 00:17:11,517 --> 00:17:13,707 what tax exempt municipal bonds. 350 00:17:14,057 --> 00:17:17,797 The vast majority of our infrastructure in this country 351 00:17:17,817 --> 00:17:20,537 is financed by municipal bonds. 352 00:17:20,557 --> 00:17:23,117 So if you own a municipal bond a tax exempt municipal bond because there's 353 00:17:23,127 --> 00:17:26,407 taxable municipal bonds There's tax tax exempt municipal bonds But if you hold 354 00:17:26,407 --> 00:17:30,047 a federally tax exempt municipal bond, you don't have to remit that interest to 355 00:17:30,047 --> 00:17:33,447 the federal government Basically, it's a subsidy from the federal government 356 00:17:33,797 --> 00:17:37,807 allowing local governments, your schools, your transit agencies, your 357 00:17:37,807 --> 00:17:41,007 water agencies, et cetera, et cetera, hospitals, et cetera, et cetera, et 358 00:17:41,007 --> 00:17:44,077 cetera, to borrow at lower interest rates. 359 00:17:44,087 --> 00:17:49,287 So the cost of the infrastructure that we individuals all use every day to take our 360 00:17:49,287 --> 00:17:51,837 kids to school, to go to work, to travel. 361 00:17:52,282 --> 00:17:53,392 It's a lower cost. 362 00:17:53,402 --> 00:17:57,962 So tax cut and jobs act, 2017, first couple of renditions of it. 363 00:17:57,962 --> 00:18:01,892 I definitely in the first one, muni tax exemption was gone, right? 364 00:18:02,092 --> 00:18:04,692 Because they, they're making all these tax cuts and they're shifting things 365 00:18:04,692 --> 00:18:05,712 here and they're shifting things there. 366 00:18:05,712 --> 00:18:07,412 They're like, well, we got to take from here in order to pay 367 00:18:07,412 --> 00:18:09,252 from their muni tax exemption. 368 00:18:09,327 --> 00:18:10,197 It was gone. 369 00:18:10,577 --> 00:18:13,427 They muni tax exemption wound up staying alive. 370 00:18:13,427 --> 00:18:17,627 But they did make some changes that, that have impacted local governments. 371 00:18:17,867 --> 00:18:20,657 One of them being that, that you can no longer advance refund 372 00:18:20,657 --> 00:18:25,157 on a, on a, on a, you know, tax exempt basis, one time for free. 373 00:18:25,607 --> 00:18:29,747 And now they're talking about, Hey, okay, no, let's not tax on tips. 374 00:18:29,747 --> 00:18:31,727 Let's not tax on overtime, let's not tax. 375 00:18:31,817 --> 00:18:33,317 And how are you gonna pay for that? 376 00:18:33,407 --> 00:18:35,837 Well, one of the things that people have been floating. 377 00:18:36,137 --> 00:18:37,797 And maybe it's just people fear mongering. 378 00:18:37,797 --> 00:18:38,897 Maybe it's clickbait. 379 00:18:39,327 --> 00:18:44,187 I don't know, but having gone, having been like in my, you know, mid to late, 380 00:18:44,337 --> 00:18:49,967 mid to late thirties in 2017 and song tax exemption being in being talked about 381 00:18:49,967 --> 00:18:51,317 being taken away, I got pretty scared. 382 00:18:51,597 --> 00:18:55,937 And so seven, eight years later, I'm, I'm a little less afraid of it, but it's 383 00:18:55,937 --> 00:18:57,527 something that we need to talk about. 384 00:18:57,827 --> 00:19:01,937 If you get rid of tax exemption, the costs of borrowing for the local 385 00:19:01,937 --> 00:19:04,017 governments will absolutely rise. 386 00:19:04,177 --> 00:19:05,937 And so what does that mean? 387 00:19:06,177 --> 00:19:07,307 Taxes will rise. 388 00:19:07,347 --> 00:19:08,697 Property taxes may have to rise. 389 00:19:08,917 --> 00:19:10,547 Are the fees may have to rise. 390 00:19:10,557 --> 00:19:13,037 The sewer revenues may have to, the water revenue. 391 00:19:13,037 --> 00:19:14,617 So we're going to pay for it. 392 00:19:14,912 --> 00:19:17,542 The individuals will pay for it one way or the other. 393 00:19:17,542 --> 00:19:20,762 So it's a scary thing for municipal governments. 394 00:19:20,812 --> 00:19:22,622 Obviously it's going to impact transportation. 395 00:19:22,862 --> 00:19:25,822 It's going to impact anything and everything that you could think of. 396 00:19:26,122 --> 00:19:28,242 That's how important muni tax exemption is. 397 00:19:28,322 --> 00:19:28,872 That's good. 398 00:19:29,172 --> 00:19:29,372 Yeah. 399 00:19:29,372 --> 00:19:31,482 Just to, Elaborate on that a little bit more. 400 00:19:31,482 --> 00:19:35,232 So I think you know that in a previous life, I was a county administrator 401 00:19:35,442 --> 00:19:36,442 and a county commissioner. 402 00:19:36,772 --> 00:19:39,002 And this is how it works, folks. 403 00:19:39,412 --> 00:19:42,962 We go to the local cities and local county governments, the commissioners 404 00:19:42,962 --> 00:19:47,062 and their finance folks go to New York once a year to the bond rating agencies 405 00:19:47,062 --> 00:19:51,222 to Fitch standard and Poor's and Moody's, which I did these visits and we pitch 406 00:19:51,222 --> 00:19:54,212 the county government, you know, Queen Anne's County, where I'm from, where 407 00:19:54,212 --> 00:19:57,102 I was a county administrator, or when I was in Charles County, Maryland. 408 00:19:57,412 --> 00:20:01,972 This is why we're strong county and we you can guarantee we can guarantee that 409 00:20:01,972 --> 00:20:06,462 we're going to repay the debt that we borrow from you to build a new school 410 00:20:06,702 --> 00:20:11,292 to buy some new buses for our county to build a new road, to build a park, 411 00:20:11,522 --> 00:20:15,622 to do astroturf on our on our soccer fields or football fields for our 412 00:20:15,622 --> 00:20:18,662 high schools, all that stuff, anything over, you know, half a million dollars. 413 00:20:18,662 --> 00:20:21,092 Normally we bond that we don't pay it with pay go money. 414 00:20:21,512 --> 00:20:22,992 And so we borrow that money. 415 00:20:22,992 --> 00:20:26,482 And so you'll see on your local government's budget each year, 416 00:20:26,482 --> 00:20:27,622 there's a line of debt service. 417 00:20:27,622 --> 00:20:29,032 That's what that debt service is. 418 00:20:29,032 --> 00:20:32,322 We're paying back the bonds and we normally get really good interest rates. 419 00:20:32,332 --> 00:20:35,582 Like Rudy just said, two and a half, 3%, on these. 420 00:20:35,582 --> 00:20:37,852 Whereas if you're borrowing your own money, you know, you're, you're 421 00:20:37,852 --> 00:20:41,042 trying to buy a house right now, you know, it's six and a half, 7%. 422 00:20:41,342 --> 00:20:42,372 and so, like you said. 423 00:20:42,487 --> 00:20:46,977 It's a lot less and institutional investors will buy up these bonds 424 00:20:47,017 --> 00:20:50,677 as, as will individuals, because they're tax free, as Rudy said. 425 00:20:50,677 --> 00:20:54,677 And so if they weren't tax free anymore, the county government would then have 426 00:20:54,677 --> 00:20:59,407 to pay higher interest rates on the amount of money that we borrowed, which 427 00:20:59,407 --> 00:21:03,537 means that there would be less new projects built or your taxes would go up. 428 00:21:03,837 --> 00:21:07,137 So, that's the municipal side from my mind Rudy's giving 429 00:21:07,137 --> 00:21:08,707 you the finance side together. 430 00:21:08,707 --> 00:21:10,712 They meet and kind of hopefully show you a full picture. 431 00:21:11,012 --> 00:21:12,482 Let's move on to the next topic, Rudy. 432 00:21:12,492 --> 00:21:13,082 That was great. 433 00:21:13,092 --> 00:21:16,702 And that is the intersection of entertainment and transportation. 434 00:21:16,712 --> 00:21:17,882 You and I are both into that. 435 00:21:18,262 --> 00:21:21,912 Most folks know we have a TV show, Transit Unplugged TV, which is a travel show. 436 00:21:22,212 --> 00:21:24,962 Matter of fact, just yesterday, I did my first podcast interview 437 00:21:24,982 --> 00:21:26,852 on another guy's travel podcast. 438 00:21:27,152 --> 00:21:30,612 Talking about the travel we've done for the show and what we've learned. 439 00:21:30,912 --> 00:21:34,792 So, entertainment you know, we try to open each episode of Transit Unplugged 440 00:21:34,792 --> 00:21:36,722 TV with a fun, entertaining sequence. 441 00:21:36,742 --> 00:21:38,362 For instance, I just did Australia. 442 00:21:38,372 --> 00:21:39,232 We were in Brisbane. 443 00:21:39,452 --> 00:21:42,932 We were gonna go jet skiing, to showcase the Noosa River. 444 00:21:43,232 --> 00:21:46,782 And my, creative director came up with a crazy idea, which we ended 445 00:21:46,782 --> 00:21:49,617 up doing, which is what people will see in the February episode. 446 00:21:49,917 --> 00:21:53,607 Me opening like a James Bond movie, coming in with a full suit on, driving 447 00:21:53,607 --> 00:21:57,237 the jet ski, you know, out there jumping and all that in the suit, and then 448 00:21:57,237 --> 00:22:01,037 coming in to open the show, you know, my name is Comfort, Paul Comfort, and I've 449 00:22:01,037 --> 00:22:04,107 got a license to ride, and you know, it's funny stuff like that, so we try 450 00:22:04,107 --> 00:22:07,767 to grab people's attention through the entertainment value and then show them 451 00:22:08,067 --> 00:22:11,097 the food, fun and culture of a region, but then also how you can use public 452 00:22:11,097 --> 00:22:13,197 transportation just like Rudy does in L. 453 00:22:13,197 --> 00:22:13,377 A. 454 00:22:13,677 --> 00:22:16,517 To get around that city to see all the fun things we just showed you. 455 00:22:16,837 --> 00:22:18,447 You've got another angle on entertainment. 456 00:22:18,477 --> 00:22:19,267 Give us your angle. 457 00:22:19,567 --> 00:22:20,367 Yeah, I mean it. 458 00:22:20,667 --> 00:22:24,237 It's actually perfect that you brought up entertainment right after 459 00:22:24,237 --> 00:22:25,597 we just talked about funding, right? 460 00:22:25,897 --> 00:22:30,007 Because maybe when people were listening to the municipal bond part of this 461 00:22:30,007 --> 00:22:33,267 whole thing, like, like they do, like my wife, their, their eyes rolled or 462 00:22:33,267 --> 00:22:34,607 they, they stopped paying attention. 463 00:22:34,897 --> 00:22:35,447 just kidding, honey. 464 00:22:35,707 --> 00:22:38,977 but yeah, most people, when I start talking about muni bonds and tax 465 00:22:38,977 --> 00:22:41,337 exemption, all that type of stuff, they're not paying attention. 466 00:22:41,407 --> 00:22:42,107 So I got to go. 467 00:22:42,147 --> 00:22:44,817 I'm thinking, how do I get people interested in this? 468 00:22:44,827 --> 00:22:45,607 Yeah. 469 00:22:45,607 --> 00:22:47,427 How do I get people to care? 470 00:22:47,697 --> 00:22:51,387 And what you do on Transit Unplugged and you're showing these public 471 00:22:51,387 --> 00:22:55,277 transportation systems and you, and I watch transit and you showing 472 00:22:55,277 --> 00:22:57,447 people how to get around the cities. 473 00:22:57,877 --> 00:23:01,787 With it, that's where I think is the most important part. 474 00:23:02,117 --> 00:23:07,197 If people can see what public transpo that public transportation system that's 475 00:23:07,217 --> 00:23:12,477 alien to them, or they're afraid of, Paul, if they could see where their tax 476 00:23:12,477 --> 00:23:15,517 dollars are going to, if they're seeing that, oh my god, I don't need to rent 477 00:23:15,517 --> 00:23:18,277 a car, oh my god, I don't have to wait in traffic, oh my god, I could sit with 478 00:23:18,277 --> 00:23:22,997 my kids and have like free sightseeing via a safe public transportation 479 00:23:22,997 --> 00:23:25,367 system, then people will care more. 480 00:23:25,502 --> 00:23:29,732 So the connection, the entertain, the doubling down on entertainment by me and 481 00:23:29,732 --> 00:23:33,712 by you is so people will care more about their public transit systems, and maybe 482 00:23:33,712 --> 00:23:35,382 they'll be willing to pay more, right? 483 00:23:35,442 --> 00:23:37,542 Let's say muni tax exemption goes away. 484 00:23:37,662 --> 00:23:40,352 Are we just gonna stop funding public transportation? 485 00:23:40,362 --> 00:23:44,062 No, we're gonna need to double down even more on the importance of it. 486 00:23:44,362 --> 00:23:48,032 And show people what they're getting for their dollars and how important it is, 487 00:23:48,262 --> 00:23:52,562 especially if the costs are rising, I like to bring entertainment entertainment 488 00:23:52,902 --> 00:23:59,152 into it just because it's, it's, I have such a deep passion for transportation. 489 00:23:59,152 --> 00:24:02,082 I can't expect anybody to have the passion for it. 490 00:24:02,332 --> 00:24:05,292 And that passion was instilled in me from my grandmother. 491 00:24:05,572 --> 00:24:07,202 She immigrated to this country in the 70s. 492 00:24:07,202 --> 00:24:08,402 She didn't speak English. 493 00:24:08,802 --> 00:24:12,582 And she taught herself how to use the bus system in North Orange County. 494 00:24:12,842 --> 00:24:17,212 And she instilled in me from a very, very, very young age about what a great 495 00:24:17,212 --> 00:24:21,432 country we live in because you can, you can use a bus system and you can 496 00:24:21,432 --> 00:24:23,412 get around on public transportation. 497 00:24:23,602 --> 00:24:25,642 And that stayed with me for the rest of my life. 498 00:24:25,942 --> 00:24:28,652 And as a result, I'm trying to like double down on that passion and 499 00:24:28,652 --> 00:24:31,562 spread that to other people and say, Hey, look, like we should really 500 00:24:31,562 --> 00:24:33,592 care about public transportation. 501 00:24:33,892 --> 00:24:36,292 You know, you can use it for entertainment purposes. 502 00:24:36,442 --> 00:24:38,002 You can use it to get around. 503 00:24:38,002 --> 00:24:39,552 You can spend more time with your family. 504 00:24:39,752 --> 00:24:42,012 I'm, I'm a big believer, Paul. 505 00:24:42,072 --> 00:24:45,302 And this is why I was talking about a lot about the Inglewood people mover and how 506 00:24:45,302 --> 00:24:48,002 important it is going to these stadiums. 507 00:24:48,312 --> 00:24:54,542 The transportation aspect, Paul, of going to an event can ruin an event. 508 00:24:54,882 --> 00:24:55,992 Let me give you an example. 509 00:24:56,022 --> 00:24:57,092 So I'm a big punk rock fan. 510 00:24:57,092 --> 00:24:59,572 I was in a bunch of punk rock bands, back in the day. 511 00:25:00,012 --> 00:25:03,952 I went to the, it was like punk rock Woodstock out in Pomona, California. 512 00:25:04,252 --> 00:25:04,372 Okay. 513 00:25:04,372 --> 00:25:05,802 It was called the no values concert. 514 00:25:06,102 --> 00:25:10,512 I spent five and a half hours ingress and egress from this concert. 515 00:25:10,622 --> 00:25:11,182 Yes. 516 00:25:11,432 --> 00:25:13,752 And that, and it ruined it for me. 517 00:25:13,832 --> 00:25:15,022 I wrote a Forbes. 518 00:25:15,062 --> 00:25:19,422 com article about how horrible it was that they, and there was, and there 519 00:25:19,422 --> 00:25:24,082 was literally a, a Metro link station, only a quarter of a mile away or a 520 00:25:24,082 --> 00:25:26,302 half a mile away or easy shuttle bus. 521 00:25:26,352 --> 00:25:29,012 They didn't coordinate the two and that. 522 00:25:29,312 --> 00:25:31,982 And a lot of people, I mean, I went on to Reddit, I went on a whole 523 00:25:31,982 --> 00:25:34,162 bunch of places and a lot of people like, I'll never go again, I'll 524 00:25:34,162 --> 00:25:35,482 never go again, I'll never go again. 525 00:25:35,752 --> 00:25:39,662 If you've ever been to a concert and had a horrible transportation 526 00:25:39,662 --> 00:25:43,002 experience, it'll make you think twice about going to that concert. 527 00:25:43,012 --> 00:25:43,722 Yeah, that's right. 528 00:25:43,722 --> 00:25:45,872 I mean, it's one of the reasons why I don't go to Coachella anymore. 529 00:25:45,872 --> 00:25:46,922 I'm like, look, I've done it twice. 530 00:25:46,922 --> 00:25:47,932 I can't do it. 531 00:25:47,982 --> 00:25:48,812 I can't deal with it. 532 00:25:49,212 --> 00:25:54,242 So there's a huge connection between enjoyment of entertainment events and 533 00:25:54,242 --> 00:25:58,222 transportation and more people got to care about that and more companies got 534 00:25:58,222 --> 00:26:01,692 to care about that and more cities got to care about that because if we're spending 535 00:26:01,692 --> 00:26:04,812 the amount of dollars that we're spending for these sporting events and these 536 00:26:04,812 --> 00:26:09,022 concerts and it's getting ruined because because the ingress and egress and because 537 00:26:09,022 --> 00:26:12,962 there's no option You know what then people then the value of those concerts. 538 00:26:13,262 --> 00:26:14,022 They might drop. 539 00:26:14,042 --> 00:26:14,542 I don't know. 540 00:26:14,542 --> 00:26:18,482 I mean, I mean, there's so much virtual reality these days with with 541 00:26:18,722 --> 00:26:22,772 concerts and movies and sporting events How is that going to impact 542 00:26:22,782 --> 00:26:27,872 these live events if people really hate getting into and out of an event? 543 00:26:28,307 --> 00:26:29,247 That's going to impact things. 544 00:26:29,247 --> 00:26:32,777 So I think for business reasons, people should care more about transportation. 545 00:26:32,977 --> 00:26:35,617 That's my connection of entertainment and transportation. 546 00:26:35,907 --> 00:26:37,277 Yeah, that's great. 547 00:26:37,597 --> 00:26:40,797 You know, there were big, music concerts across America and Canada 548 00:26:40,797 --> 00:26:46,137 this year, by a certain starlet, very popular singer that she was promoting. 549 00:26:46,167 --> 00:26:48,717 Hey, use public transportation to get to my concerts. 550 00:26:48,907 --> 00:26:51,807 Yeah, because she knew that it was going to ruin people's experience. 551 00:26:51,837 --> 00:26:55,997 Probably like you said, if they had to wait around in big traffic, Taylor Swift. 552 00:26:55,997 --> 00:26:56,107 Yeah. 553 00:26:56,107 --> 00:26:59,707 I mean, everybody knows, knows it, but, yeah, she, God bless her, man. 554 00:27:00,007 --> 00:27:00,307 Go ahead. 555 00:27:00,307 --> 00:27:00,708 What'd you say? 556 00:27:01,047 --> 00:27:01,856 No, I was just kidding. 557 00:27:01,857 --> 00:27:04,037 I mean, she, I mean, that's fantastic. 558 00:27:04,087 --> 00:27:07,367 She probably got people, Paul, to use public transportation for 559 00:27:07,367 --> 00:27:08,627 the first time in their life. 560 00:27:08,717 --> 00:27:09,277 And you know what? 561 00:27:09,297 --> 00:27:10,387 They might use it again. 562 00:27:10,447 --> 00:27:10,937 That's right. 563 00:27:10,977 --> 00:27:11,377 Need more. 564 00:27:11,397 --> 00:27:13,877 We need more Twitter, Taylor Swift saying this type of stuff. 565 00:27:13,877 --> 00:27:15,767 I know Beyonce did something as well. 566 00:27:16,212 --> 00:27:19,862 She worked with the Washington Metro, to like keep the trains going late 567 00:27:19,862 --> 00:27:20,912 because it was raining and that's fine. 568 00:27:20,992 --> 00:27:24,492 We need more, we need more artists that care about transportation. 569 00:27:24,632 --> 00:27:26,102 That's why I talk incessantly about it. 570 00:27:26,202 --> 00:27:27,142 All right, lightning round. 571 00:27:27,142 --> 00:27:29,712 We're coming close to the end but I want to get your thoughts on 572 00:27:29,712 --> 00:27:33,972 what I consider the three F's of transportation going into 2025. 573 00:27:33,982 --> 00:27:37,432 I recently spoke about this in Brisbane and I want to get your take on it. 574 00:27:37,662 --> 00:27:38,812 the first is fueling. 575 00:27:38,992 --> 00:27:41,412 Where are we at on fueling for public transportation 576 00:27:41,412 --> 00:27:43,162 going into 2025, do you think? 577 00:27:43,462 --> 00:27:46,522 Yeah, I think electrification of transportation is still going to be 578 00:27:46,522 --> 00:27:52,048 a, pretty, pretty big, uh, uh, topic, um, um, on The Commute Substack. 579 00:27:52,068 --> 00:27:55,988 I actually had a whole little sub article about, there was this electric train. 580 00:27:56,048 --> 00:27:57,988 I think it's called, she called the Tesla train in Germany. 581 00:27:57,988 --> 00:28:01,668 It's literally run on electricity in Germany and it's been a wonderful kind 582 00:28:01,668 --> 00:28:04,763 of test case for clean transportation. 583 00:28:04,763 --> 00:28:08,613 So obviously most light rails run on electricity, but, but you know, big 584 00:28:08,613 --> 00:28:10,863 rail is not still run on diesel fuel. 585 00:28:10,863 --> 00:28:11,351 Yeah. 586 00:28:11,351 --> 00:28:12,327 Heavy rail. 587 00:28:12,327 --> 00:28:16,045 I actually worked on the Cal train. 588 00:28:16,045 --> 00:28:20,385 Cal train is the big, train that runs from San Jose up to San Francisco. 589 00:28:20,585 --> 00:28:23,605 And we worked on the financing for the electrification of that train. 590 00:28:23,875 --> 00:28:27,955 So I do think that electrification is going to be big, into the future. 591 00:28:27,955 --> 00:28:29,845 Now, is it just going to be electrification? 592 00:28:29,985 --> 00:28:31,005 What about hydrogen? 593 00:28:31,025 --> 00:28:33,595 Everyone seems to be talking about hydrogen these days. 594 00:28:33,735 --> 00:28:38,965 And that, you know, so I, I think fueling, will there be some drill baby 595 00:28:38,965 --> 00:28:40,705 drill under Trump with, with fracking? 596 00:28:40,705 --> 00:28:43,955 Yeah, I mean, I think there will be, and maybe there'll be clean ways to do it. 597 00:28:44,205 --> 00:28:47,375 But I don't think electrification is going away. 598 00:28:47,435 --> 00:28:50,705 I think we need to double down on building out our grid. 599 00:28:50,705 --> 00:28:52,975 We need to, we need to think about alternatives. 600 00:28:53,275 --> 00:28:56,025 You know, I think, I think the nuclear conversation has to come 601 00:28:56,035 --> 00:29:01,325 back into, into vogue, if you will, maybe smaller scale nuclear projects. 602 00:29:01,345 --> 00:29:03,065 I know Google's looking at a couple of them. 603 00:29:03,385 --> 00:29:06,215 So fueling, when you talk about fuel, I'm not just literally talking about gas. 604 00:29:06,215 --> 00:29:08,175 I'm talking about anything that can make things run. 605 00:29:08,515 --> 00:29:12,445 And I think it, I think in 2025, that's one of the reasons, you know, 606 00:29:12,475 --> 00:29:13,665 it's going to be pretty exciting. 607 00:29:13,965 --> 00:29:18,325 Keolis, has proposed to MBTA, the Massachusetts Bay Transportation 608 00:29:18,325 --> 00:29:21,735 Authority, in Boston for their commuter rail, it's the largest commuter rail 609 00:29:21,735 --> 00:29:27,175 in America, to, start trying out new electric trains that have big batteries 610 00:29:27,175 --> 00:29:31,765 in them, so you have the catenary wires above, As you get close to the station, 611 00:29:31,765 --> 00:29:34,625 but then as you get out on the track and you get away from the wires, it 612 00:29:34,625 --> 00:29:37,905 switches over to the batteries, and then it comes back up at the other end. 613 00:29:37,905 --> 00:29:40,985 They're doing that in other places in the world is what I understand, but 614 00:29:40,985 --> 00:29:42,195 this may be the first place in the U. 615 00:29:42,195 --> 00:29:44,525 S., and so that looks like that's moving forward. 616 00:29:44,865 --> 00:29:47,135 The other thing I was going to mention, what I'm hearing from people on the 617 00:29:47,135 --> 00:29:51,145 fueling side for public transportation is, there probably won't be any more 618 00:29:51,145 --> 00:29:53,555 money coming from the FTA ,under 619 00:29:55,953 --> 00:29:56,986 Trump for battery electric buses. 620 00:29:56,986 --> 00:30:00,865 However that doesn't mean that there still won't be local funding and state funding 621 00:30:00,865 --> 00:30:03,475 in states like California where you're at, where they're going to continue to 622 00:30:03,475 --> 00:30:07,815 provide a push toward that Let's move to the second topic, and that is funding 623 00:30:08,115 --> 00:30:09,695 where do you think funding will go? 624 00:30:09,725 --> 00:30:12,505 As you know, in America, public transportation is funded by a 625 00:30:12,515 --> 00:30:16,155 mix of federal, state and local dollars and fares and advertising. 626 00:30:16,415 --> 00:30:18,845 Do you have any thoughts on where we're going now that you know 627 00:30:18,855 --> 00:30:22,395 ridership is still only around 70 to 80 percent of transit agencies? 628 00:30:23,482 --> 00:30:24,562 pandemic ridership. 629 00:30:24,862 --> 00:30:30,312 Government agencies are, you know, all at coming to the end of the subsidies 630 00:30:30,312 --> 00:30:33,692 that came from the federal government for the CARES act, the CRISSA act 631 00:30:33,692 --> 00:30:37,832 and the arpa act, which were unusual one time funding mechanisms to help 632 00:30:37,832 --> 00:30:39,812 us make up for the impact of COVID 633 00:30:40,042 --> 00:30:40,732 where do we go? 634 00:30:40,732 --> 00:30:43,852 I mean, San Francisco BART is one of the big agencies has been saying, 635 00:30:43,852 --> 00:30:45,312 Hey, we're at our fiscal cliff. 636 00:30:45,322 --> 00:30:47,332 Philadelphia just announced last month. 637 00:30:47,632 --> 00:30:48,522 You got any thoughts on that? 638 00:30:48,822 --> 00:30:49,442 Yeah, I do. 639 00:30:49,442 --> 00:30:50,912 I got a lot of thoughts on the first one. 640 00:30:50,942 --> 00:30:52,012 funding is going to be huge. 641 00:30:52,042 --> 00:30:55,232 And I think there's a, there's a lot, I mean, I'm on conversations right 642 00:30:55,232 --> 00:30:59,092 now with transit agencies out here in California and they're scared. 643 00:30:59,392 --> 00:31:02,222 They just are I'm not going to name any names, but we're, we're all watching. 644 00:31:02,232 --> 00:31:04,042 And there's so many different. 645 00:31:04,342 --> 00:31:09,852 things, aspects, of balls in the air, if you will, that can affect funding for 646 00:31:09,852 --> 00:31:14,472 transit agencies that, and, and then, and then you throw in, oh, and tax exemption 647 00:31:14,472 --> 00:31:16,342 might go, might go away for, for munis. 648 00:31:16,642 --> 00:31:21,082 I do think that what transit agencies are doing with doubling down on fare 649 00:31:21,082 --> 00:31:25,092 evaders, you know, I know that's a big issue with LA Metro, I know the federal 650 00:31:25,092 --> 00:31:29,252 government really cares about fare evaders and they sometimes tie funding to that. 651 00:31:29,552 --> 00:31:32,912 And I think that's going to be, something that transit agencies 652 00:31:32,912 --> 00:31:33,932 are going to have to focus on. 653 00:31:34,232 --> 00:31:36,972 I think right now it's going to be the wait and see. 654 00:31:37,272 --> 00:31:41,292 I, do I think that the vast majority of our transportation 655 00:31:41,292 --> 00:31:43,112 funding is funded by the gas tax. 656 00:31:43,162 --> 00:31:43,502 Okay. 657 00:31:43,622 --> 00:31:44,672 Gas taxes. 658 00:31:44,682 --> 00:31:47,632 You got the federal level at the state level, sometimes at the local level as 659 00:31:47,642 --> 00:31:49,952 electric vehicles have been rising, right? 660 00:31:50,012 --> 00:31:52,052 The gas tax has been impacted by that. 661 00:31:52,152 --> 00:31:55,202 I've been arguing for years that, Hey, look guys, this is not sustainable. 662 00:31:55,392 --> 00:31:59,432 We got to come up with something else to help with our, with our infrastructure. 663 00:31:59,732 --> 00:32:01,472 Is it going to be vehicle miles traveled? 664 00:32:01,472 --> 00:32:02,912 Is it going to be some kind of user fees? 665 00:32:02,942 --> 00:32:03,462 I don't know. 666 00:32:03,462 --> 00:32:06,242 Is that really going to be realistic under a Republican regime? 667 00:32:06,332 --> 00:32:11,212 I don't know, but the reality is sorry to pick on EV drivers. 668 00:32:11,212 --> 00:32:14,262 I mean, I love EVs and I, you know, my wife has one and we have 669 00:32:14,262 --> 00:32:15,322 a hybrid, et cetera, et cetera. 670 00:32:15,622 --> 00:32:19,602 The reality is, the more EVs, the less financing for roads because of the gas 671 00:32:19,612 --> 00:32:21,232 tax, something's got to happen there. 672 00:32:21,242 --> 00:32:24,212 So I think that that needs to be addressed. 673 00:32:24,302 --> 00:32:24,682 Yeah. 674 00:32:25,092 --> 00:32:28,212 Here in Maryland, the state where I'm at, there's a special commission looking 675 00:32:28,212 --> 00:32:32,022 at exactly what you just said, Rudy, with the introduction of more EVs. 676 00:32:32,322 --> 00:32:36,402 the gas tax is going down and so there is a lot of talk of at least even if we 677 00:32:36,402 --> 00:32:40,992 don't go to road uses charges at least raising the registration fees for battery 678 00:32:40,992 --> 00:32:45,572 electric cars to be the equivalent of what the average person may spend in gas 679 00:32:45,582 --> 00:32:49,592 tax in a year to make it fair to make it equitable so that you're look electric 680 00:32:49,602 --> 00:32:52,562 cars driving on the same roads the gas car is driving on you should help pay 681 00:32:52,562 --> 00:32:57,347 for road maintenance, and I don't think people would see that's unfair I've just 682 00:32:57,347 --> 00:33:01,207 done a series of actually a podcast about that and and talks with one of my friends 683 00:33:01,227 --> 00:33:05,207 the former secretary of Transportation of California who is working on that, for 684 00:33:05,207 --> 00:33:09,627 the company he works for now And so it's a hot topic last one you you touched on 685 00:33:09,627 --> 00:33:11,577 it Give us a little bit more on faring. 686 00:33:11,777 --> 00:33:14,807 So there was a lot of, you know, people fell in love with the 687 00:33:14,807 --> 00:33:18,507 idea that transit could be free, free, free after the pandemic. 688 00:33:18,737 --> 00:33:21,367 And then they realized, wait a minute, really what people want 689 00:33:21,377 --> 00:33:23,967 when you do surveys, and by the way, it's the same in Australia. 690 00:33:24,267 --> 00:33:25,867 When you say, why aren't you riding transit? 691 00:33:25,937 --> 00:33:27,547 First is, it's not frequent enough. 692 00:33:27,557 --> 00:33:29,157 Second is, it doesn't go where I want it to go. 693 00:33:29,197 --> 00:33:30,457 Third is, I don't feel safe on it. 694 00:33:30,667 --> 00:33:32,517 Fourth is, oh, I got to pay for it. 695 00:33:32,637 --> 00:33:34,327 So it's not even in the top three. 696 00:33:34,627 --> 00:33:37,127 And transit agencies need more money now, not less. 697 00:33:37,137 --> 00:33:39,327 What are your thoughts on faring going into 2025? 698 00:33:39,627 --> 00:33:42,617 And the reason why I even brought up faring with the whole fiscal cliff aspect 699 00:33:42,617 --> 00:33:46,547 of it is exactly what you're saying when these transit agencies fall off that 700 00:33:46,547 --> 00:33:50,467 fiscal cliff, right, that's when they go into the death spiral was the death 701 00:33:50,467 --> 00:33:53,997 spiral is well the only way that they're going to be able to stay, you know, 702 00:33:54,297 --> 00:33:56,657 operable is if they start cutting service. 703 00:33:56,697 --> 00:33:58,587 Well, guess what happens when you start cutting service? 704 00:33:58,587 --> 00:33:59,027 Exactly. 705 00:33:59,027 --> 00:34:00,237 You get less people on it. 706 00:34:00,247 --> 00:34:03,697 Now, out here in California, a lot of our transit agencies, they're, 707 00:34:03,747 --> 00:34:06,567 a lot of the projects at least, and probably some of the operations, 708 00:34:06,567 --> 00:34:08,367 they're funded by sales taxes, right? 709 00:34:08,367 --> 00:34:09,547 We have the county, L. 710 00:34:09,547 --> 00:34:09,617 A. 711 00:34:09,617 --> 00:34:13,067 Metro's primarily funded by, county wide sales taxes. 712 00:34:13,067 --> 00:34:14,317 They have many of those measures. 713 00:34:14,547 --> 00:34:16,957 And so, Anytime you buy anything in L. 714 00:34:16,957 --> 00:34:17,017 A. 715 00:34:17,017 --> 00:34:19,237 County and it's subject to the sales tax, a portion of that 716 00:34:19,237 --> 00:34:20,347 goes to the transit agency. 717 00:34:20,547 --> 00:34:23,557 Not every transit agency has the benefit of a sales tax. 718 00:34:23,807 --> 00:34:27,427 Some agencies like BART, they, they, they're ticket fares, right? 719 00:34:27,427 --> 00:34:30,957 So it's like, it's all about, is it fare box revenue that's 720 00:34:30,957 --> 00:34:32,367 your primary funding source? 721 00:34:32,537 --> 00:34:34,007 Or is it sales tax revenues? 722 00:34:34,207 --> 00:34:38,447 So, If you're, if you're fare box revenue dependent, there's no way you 723 00:34:38,447 --> 00:34:42,397 could be free if you're, if you're more sales tax dependent, you know, yeah, 724 00:34:42,397 --> 00:34:44,017 I guess, I guess you could be free. 725 00:34:44,107 --> 00:34:45,947 I'm not a big believer in free. 726 00:34:45,947 --> 00:34:48,427 I mean, there's a lot of programs for students. 727 00:34:48,657 --> 00:34:50,057 There's a lot of program properly. 728 00:34:50,057 --> 00:34:53,487 So for, for disabled and ed or elderly and veteran, I mean, a lot 729 00:34:53,487 --> 00:34:54,917 of those programs aren't there. 730 00:34:54,947 --> 00:34:55,237 Yeah. 731 00:34:55,237 --> 00:34:56,577 I think if people can afford it. 732 00:34:56,917 --> 00:34:57,557 In fact. 733 00:34:57,717 --> 00:35:01,147 I think by paying for it, they realize how much money that they 734 00:35:01,147 --> 00:35:03,097 save by using public transportation. 735 00:35:03,307 --> 00:35:04,707 How much did you save on parking? 736 00:35:04,827 --> 00:35:07,407 How much did you save on that, on not using the toll road? 737 00:35:07,557 --> 00:35:10,987 How much did you save on, on car maintenance? 738 00:35:11,007 --> 00:35:13,647 And let's just take it just one step further. 739 00:35:13,852 --> 00:35:16,212 What about the health benefits of public transportation? 740 00:35:16,232 --> 00:35:17,202 What about the walking? 741 00:35:17,392 --> 00:35:21,352 I think this is my opinion, and if this is controversial, I apologize. 742 00:35:21,652 --> 00:35:25,572 I think there's an obesity epidemic in America because we're not walking enough. 743 00:35:25,572 --> 00:35:30,952 I think the car, while wonderful as it is, has definitely contributed to the negative 744 00:35:30,952 --> 00:35:33,392 health aspects of where we are at. 745 00:35:33,712 --> 00:35:38,312 And I think if people actually implemented public transportation more, they 746 00:35:38,322 --> 00:35:40,422 would also, you know, be healthier. 747 00:35:40,582 --> 00:35:41,852 That's that's that's what I do. 748 00:35:41,872 --> 00:35:47,082 I I purposely sometimes even stop a station or two away If I know there's like 749 00:35:47,082 --> 00:35:51,442 a hill or if I know there's like a nice little walk I will I will do that extra 750 00:35:51,442 --> 00:35:53,762 walk to get in even more steps in my day. 751 00:35:53,952 --> 00:35:54,802 That's what I try to do 752 00:35:55,102 --> 00:35:58,972 That's a great idea Now I haven't really thought about that the Maybe that's, 753 00:35:58,972 --> 00:36:00,062 maybe that'll be a part of the documentary. 754 00:36:00,062 --> 00:36:02,122 Yeah, the walking. 755 00:36:02,272 --> 00:36:03,982 I thought of the health, but I've never thought about it being 756 00:36:03,982 --> 00:36:05,252 the walking to the bus stop. 757 00:36:05,392 --> 00:36:06,272 That's a really good point. 758 00:36:06,272 --> 00:36:07,702 We don't get enough steps in our life. 759 00:36:07,952 --> 00:36:09,612 We are very sedentary these days. 760 00:36:09,832 --> 00:36:12,412 And, you know, with, like you said, everything virtual. 761 00:36:12,802 --> 00:36:15,302 We sit in our houses, on our couch, or on our phones. 762 00:36:15,602 --> 00:36:19,292 Dude, that's a really good point and a great way to kind of wrap up the show. 763 00:36:19,312 --> 00:36:22,532 Thank you so much, Rudy, for being a part of the Transit Unplugged 764 00:36:22,532 --> 00:36:26,372 podcast in our New Year's Eve episode as we look into 2025. 765 00:36:26,592 --> 00:36:29,392 I'm sure we'll check back with you later in 2025 and see if 766 00:36:29,402 --> 00:36:30,562 your predictions came true. 767 00:36:30,862 --> 00:36:31,572 Sounds great, Paul. 768 00:36:31,592 --> 00:36:32,712 Thank you for this opportunity. 769 00:36:32,712 --> 00:36:34,057 I look forward to working with you. 770 00:36:37,225 --> 00:36:40,305 Thank you for listening to the final episode of Transit Unplugged 771 00:36:40,305 --> 00:36:45,265 of 2024, and thanks to our guest Rudy Salo for joining us. 772 00:36:45,595 --> 00:36:49,465 Hi, I'm Tris Hussey, editor of the podcast, and coming up for 773 00:36:49,495 --> 00:36:55,037 our first episode of 2025, we have the second episode from Australia. 774 00:36:55,341 --> 00:37:01,891 Now next week, we have a true transit legend on the show, Howard Collins. 775 00:37:02,194 --> 00:37:07,504 Howard has been in transit for over 47 years and is currently the Coordinator 776 00:37:07,504 --> 00:37:10,244 General for Transport for New South Wales. 777 00:37:10,557 --> 00:37:15,643 In this captivating interview with Paul, Howard dispenses invaluable wisdom 778 00:37:15,905 --> 00:37:21,774 about transit, careers, and leadership, all the while expressing his passion 779 00:37:22,124 --> 00:37:24,484 for transit and the work he does. 780 00:37:24,755 --> 00:37:31,284 Don't miss this episode coming back to you on our usual Wednesday publishing slot. 781 00:37:31,576 --> 00:37:34,076 Transit Unplugged is brought to you by Modaxo. 782 00:37:34,436 --> 00:37:37,736 At Modaxo, we're passionate about moving the world's people, and at 783 00:37:37,736 --> 00:37:41,356 Transit Unplugged, we're passionate about telling those stories. 784 00:37:41,626 --> 00:37:46,376 So until next week and next year, we wish you a Happy New Year.