Welcome to Mindset, Mood and Movement, a systemic approach to human behavior, performance, and well being. Our psychological, emotional, and physical health are all connected, and my guests and I endeavor to share knowledge, strategies, and tools for you to enrich your life and work. Welcome to Mindset, Mood and Movement, a systemic approach to human behavior, performance, and well being. Our psychological, emotional, and physical health are all connected, and my guests and I endeavor to share knowledge, strategies, and tools for you to enrich your life and work. Hello and welcome. I'm delighted to be joined today by a friend from over the pond, as they say. I'm joined by Christine Stoven from Missouri in America, and Christine's got some cool things to say and some really powerful things to say. And I was struck when, when Christine and I were introduced about her, her powerful work that she's doing with women, with health and the legacy that she's building. And, and today we're really going to speak to, you know, how to leave a legacy of better health for women. So for all my female listeners and men too, because we're all part of the same world, right? We have partners, we have siblings, we have friends, we're all part of the conversation. It's important that we all hear it. And I'm a massive ally for women in this, but ladies, this one is going to perhaps speak to things that I can't speak to because I am a man. So I'm delighted to invite Christine to, to join us today. So Christine, welcome. Nice to have you.

I really appreciate you asking me to be on the show and I'm looking forward to our conversation.

Me too. Um, when we say about better health, it's a, it's a lovely phrase, but I'm interested in spec specificity. So when we say health, someone might say, oh, get a bit fitter or feel a bit better. I think sometimes we need to be clear on what do we mean by better health. So what would you definition of better health be

Well, health is all of us. It's holistic, right? So it's our mind. It's our body. It is our relationships. It's our surroundings, our environment. Really, health is demonstrative of every aspect of our life, whether it's our workplace, home, families. And then how our own body functions through that path. And so, it's not as simple as saying, Is your heart healthy? Are your lungs healthy? Are your eyes healthy? Are your teeth healthy? Right? None of that is truly healthy if then you have this external stressor or health issue. Difficulty, because then all of it becomes a little bit broken. So, holistic health is what I believe. And I definitely believe in, you know, movement of the body, and working towards healing the mind as essential for true health.

Nicely put. I'm all about the individual. That's the work I do with individuals in human performance. And as my regular listeners know, we work on mindset. We work on the emotional state and we work on movement and the body. But. We can be as fit as a fiddle, as they say here, but if we live in a toxic environment, we're doomed. And, you know, I live in a small city in the UK. I know you live in the States. And the air quality here, it's something that bugs me. I live in a beautiful city, but the air quality is terrible. And you're like, okay, this, I'm fighting against this. And, and environment is so important. And it's so important to know about social health as well. I've got a, uh, I've got one of my other guests who's on, uh, recently. We spoke about social health. Relationships, People, Community. So I love what you said there about the holistic nature of health and I think it's moving away from just an individual issue and looking at a collective issue. It's a powerful way to see this. So you're... Yeah, so you're, you're really a strong advocate for women's health in particular. And this is what I want to get your, your insights and your knowledge on today. Women's health. Okay, I hand over the baton. So, as a woman, what are we, what are we going to be really looking for? As in how can, what are the kind of the markers or the parameters that we want to say, okay, we're looking, we're doing the right things to help women be healthy. Particularly on the physiological sense. What's, what, what, what would you say to

Well, I would start with a pretty simple statement, but it's very complex in any way you want to interpret it. I mean, women are the foundation of our families. And we know, and this is actually a CDC statement, that a nation's health is defined by or shown by, as a benchmark, by their maternal health outcomes. So if you look at a country's maternal health outcomes, if they are poor, then that tells you that society's health is poor. And we can definitely say that with the state of the health in the United States. We have a maternal health crisis here, which is actually worsening, yet we are one of the most developed countries and most advanced in medical sciences. Somehow we have more women dying or having long term sequelae from having babies than we had in years past. We have more women dying and, you know, we already know based on research that women are under researched, under represented. There is still a lot of implicit biases. There is still a lot of implicit biases. Black and brown population are by far more likely to die because they decide to become a mom or don't decide they're proceeding with a pregnancy. And as we know, in most societies, women are the center of their families, their communities. So, with women's health being heavily influenced by, you know, the society overall, We really need to look at how we can each as an individual be empowered to better health, because it's not going to be us talking on this podcast or you going to see somebody in a healthcare setting that's going to make the health improve over time of a society. It's looking at each person as you have the power to do better, to be better. And to be the change. And we can't do that unless we empower each of us to say you may feel like you are not powerful enough to make that change, but if you're a mom, a wife, a daughter, a sister, a grandchild, an employee, you ride the bus, you go to the grocery store, you have friends, you are influencing all those networks and can make the positive change in how we think and how we behave every day.

Very nice, yeah. And it's, the statistics you've said are, I mean, they're just shocking. You know, when we think about advance and of course, you know, the Americas and it's an incredibly advanced nation in so many ways. And yet, in many ways, there's such regression and it's not something I can speak to. I don't know the stats on it. So hearing it from you, it's, it's, it's, it's alarming and shocking to say the least. But I love what you said there about. understanding that there are these forces at play. There's cultural forces, political forces, patriarchal forces, uh, his legacy, all this stuff. And we, we do need to look at ourselves. And I think it's a powerful thing because it's where do I have choice? Where do I have power? I think That's such an important thing. I know for some of my female clients I've coached. Powerlessness has been a theme through some of their experiences for various reasons. Now, one of my jobs as a coach is to help them find that power, you know, find that strength and build it because it's all there, like muscles, you know, you, I'm quite a skinny bloke and I've got a lot of muscles because I go and lift the weights and it's like, how do we help that person train? to become stronger and empowered. And that crosses, you know, the psychological domain, the emotional and the physical. You mentioned something there about how we all influence and affect one another. And this is a systems theory approach which I, I, I have subscribed to. And I think of it like raindrops. I'm very visual. So when we see the raindrop in the puddle, that concentric wave goes out, and then it might be another raindrop and concentric wave. I love the fact, I'm seeing that if we can empower people, these are like these ripples of change that go out. So maybe we can speak to that. So as an individual, yeah, we can't change society and political nonsense and all the things that's going on, but what we can do is change ourselves. So what's the first step that we want to start considering?

Wow, that's a big question. So, the first thing I would say to that is a question. you need to meet people where they are. So if you have someone that has a food desert as an issue, they have access to healthcare as an issue. They have transportation as an issue. Monetarily, they don't have the means to do many of the things that could help. drive that healthier lifestyle. Maybe they don't have the influences around them. So we need to meet people where they are. And if we don't meet them where they are, then we are telling them rather than teaching them how to live a better life. So I'm going to start there because it's not fair for me to assume what I have access to is what everybody else has access to. And so the basics of that is when I meet someone, I need to stop and ask them some questions because that teaches me where I can lead that conversation. How are you and how is your life? Are you in a relationship? Do you work? Do you like your job? What do you do for the day? Do you want to have children? Are you feeling like you're socially taken care of? Do you have good friendships? And those aren't the exact questions, but the idea is to try in a few minutes. Get a basis of that person's life so that then you can meet them where they are. And then it's moving into, okay, what brought you in here today? Whether that's as a clinician I'm asking that question, whether that's as a medical student that is coming to me and I'm teaching them, whether that is sitting with a group of friends and they're wanting advice about why they're having hot flashes, night sweats, brain fog, whatever it is. If you first find the basis of where that person's coming from, we will do so much more to help them improve their path. And then my next question is going to be, okay, so what is it that's concerning you today? What is it that's bothering you today? What I expect them to answer and what actually happens are two very different things. So it's important to step back and wait for that answer. And if you're not clear, don't assume that your version of what they're trying to figure out is my version because they're not the same. And so by stepping back and doing that, I've learned a great deal about not having biases in my assumptions and hopefully leading them to be empowered to make better choices and have a better health pathway, but also trusting me that I'm going to listen. I may not have all the answers, but my desire is to try to help in whatever way I can.

Very nice. Absolutely, exquisitely articulated. And, and it really strikes me, doesn't it? We live in a world of noise and bombardment and, and We, there's so much knowledge, I mean, goodness me, I, I, I'm, I'm of an age where we used to go to the library as a child if we had to look up some stuff, like now you just open your phone and you know everything, or you know what the algorithm tells you anyway. So we have all the information, so then the question is, if the information's there, why are we not making better choices? It's got to land, hasn't it? It's got to talk to people and, uh, in underserved communities, you know, if you look at patents of what, what do they do, well, their, their food choices are probably different to people with higher net worth and, and there's all sorts of reasons why this cultural, social, um, um, social bias and inclusivity, all these things, but I love what you said about meeting people where they are because That's where we start, Right. Because it's reality. It's not an abstraction. And I think for those of us listening and just tuning in, it's a great question. Where are you now? And maybe you sort of percolate those thoughts. Yeah, what is going on for me now? What's my lifestyle choices? What money do I have? What capabilities? And start to get really clear on those spaces and those points to start from. You also mentioned something about assumptions and, oh my goodness, It's a, it's such a big one. We, we all assume, we all make hypotheses and in the medical community, clinicians, psychotherapists, we all do, we have hypotheses. The danger is, is that we overlay our opinion of the other based on our ideology. And That's dangerous because I don't know what it's like to be a woman. So I need to ask because I'm a man, but if I assume, Oh, it must be difficult. How do I know? How do I know? So, um, uh, I, I was told by someone recently that they. a person was struggling to communicate well. And so what happened? And they said, Oh, they were just assuming that the women couldn't lift heavy weights and it was like, okay, let's do some skilling because these girls couldn't. And I've trained with girls in CrossFit who are so strong and they're tiny. So we have to be very careful of assumptions on any level because they can be dangerous. And they think they can be diminishing, which is such an important point you raised. Thank you. So. Kristen, can I sort of push a little deeper? Women's health. Now, uh, as we've spoken in my regular listeners note, I'm all about building up strength, becoming vital and empowered. Demential cycle, perimenopause, hormonal shifts, endometriosis, all these things a woman might have that a man won't have. Then how can we start to think about women's health, better health and Naming or addressing those parts of a woman's health. Where do you start with that and what can we, what can we sort of inspire our listeners to think about?

Okay, well, so I have a great answer for that, honestly, because this is something that I have to address every single day, many times a day, whether it's professionally or personally, because people know that I like to educate and I like to help them feel better. It's a driving passion of mine that sometimes I can't turn off. You could just ask my kids or my husband, like, Mom, okay, I know I need to not eat that. I need to do this. I need to get good sleep. You know, you turn off electronics. So what I would say, my biggest piece of advice is, and when I say this, I also want to caveat by saying it's so sad that this is not such mainstream of a thought process. Our menstrual cycle is a vital sign. Your blood pressure, your heart rate, your temperature, they're all vital signs, right? Your menstrual cycles are a vital sign. They tell a story. And if we will look at our menstrual cycles as a vital sign, and we treat them Like a vital sign, then we will know so much more about our bodies and understand why we feel certain ways, different days. But also you would be able to then navigate with those around you because they would know too. So if your people in your close circle are able to see your ebbs and flows. then they're able to also respond to you in a way that they understand because they understand where you're coming from. The only way we change that paradigm is being much more open about the conversation. And women have been taught to be embarrassed about talking about periods or menopause or hot flashes or menstrual cramps or urinary incontinence or rectal incontinence or constipation or whatever it is that shouldn't be embarrassing because isn't that And so I would say, first and foremost, Our menstrual cycles, or lack thereof, are a vital sign. If we understand that, then we will understand so much more about why we feel certain ways, why things go a certain way at different times, why you're more likely to get sick at a certain time, why you're more likely to want to speak and be extroverted and hang out with your friends and talk, why sometimes you want to be an introvert and cuddle on the couch and drink a hot tea and talk to nobody and turn off all the lights. If we understand... why we feel that way and those around us understand it, we can navigate life so much better. So that's probably the simplest first step. We have to be in tune with our cycling. Men cycle every few hours. Women not so much. We're lunar months or as we age, we're who knows what we are. And that's the point, right? That's our vital sign.

Oh, I love that. Vital signs. I mean, I'm all over stuff like HRV, blood pressure, you know, all these stats, you know, VO2 max, all these things that I might do for my own fitness and work with clients. And I have never heard anyone call that a vital sign. That is just exquisite. And, and to me, it seems like, well, of course it is. Um, I'm someone who lives with an autoimmune condition and, uh, and I know what it's like to have embarrassment. It's, uh, it's a bowel issue and, and, and if you've got to use the lobe, you don't have a choice. Now, I'm fortunate to be very much in remission because a lot of the work I do and the work I've done on every level to, to heal that to a large extent. But... When we start to become embarrassed of our bodies and natural things, like what is that? Because it's happening anyway. We, we all have to use the loo. We all sweat. We all do these things. Shaming stuff. Shaming itself is a powerful and dangerous force and it definitely feels like. I don't know if it's a Victorian era thing or whatever, but yeah, no one speaks about going to the loo. I can't say that. I mean, I know you guys in America's call it the bathroom and us Brits are like, what are you taking a bath for? Do you not mean the loo?

yes, yes, ha

And we can laugh, but actually when it comes down to it, Yeah, it's a difficult conversation. And, uh, I, I've trained some, some female athletes where. You are not going to lift the weight as part of your training cycle, if you're training, uh, the mesocycle, it's called, if you're in your menstrual cycle, because your body will be a certain state. If you go against that, then how healthy or damaging is that? And I, I sense it's the latter from my limited understanding. Um, I wanted to just add something and then get you to kind of pick up some more. I get people to look at biorhythms. Everyone has biorhythms, male and female, and of course the women a lot more. If we work with them, such as when do you wake naturally, when's your hormone cycle of cortisol lifting to give you the sharp edge of your brain, when are you downregulating? In us, in our, particularly in the busy world of life and work, people kind of live by a diary, you know, meetings and back to back and killing the kids and, and it's, it's an abstraction when actually half the time we want to go and have a nap, but I know I'm going to push through. And I don't advocate for that. I have the privilege that I work for myself and, and Because of the autoimmune condition, I've learned if I need to sleep in the afternoon, I sleep. Because it's really simple, if I don't, I get ill. It's a non negotiable. So I've had to learn to be with my body and that response, and that's my small experience. So what would you say about learning about your biorhythms, your menstrual cycle, and how actually that can be a more empowering state for, for a woman? What do they need to learn and how can that empower them?

Excellent question. So I think that, and this is goes for whether you're in perimenopause, menopause, or you're cycling. We need to understand that our hormonal function, which is our, our hormones, our chemical messengers, right? So estrogen and progesterone, they have a dance. And if we will live life. flowing with that dance, that in general we will feel better and do better. And so there are times cyclically that it's better to lift heavy weights, to push yourself, to fast longer if you want, eat higher protein and, and eat more of a ketogenic type diet. And there are times that you need to be more conscious and, and not lifting heavy weights. not pushing your joints because you're at a time in your cycle that you're more prone to injury. You also need to sleep a little bit more, have more complex carbs, and maybe a time that if you're aware of that, you're more likely to be more emotional, maybe be more sensitive, respond more negatively in a conversation, so maybe not have those conversations when you're in your luteal phase of your cycle. And for perimenopause, each day can be a different day. And if you are waking up and feeling certain things, like you're, you're just more tired, maybe you feel more introverted, maybe you feel like you don't have the energy to go lift heavily. Okay, well, that's certainly not an estrogen state. I need to pay attention to that. I don't need to go try to max out, or I really should support that with sure, plenty of protein, but I'm going to need some complex carbs in there. And maybe this isn't the time to decide to run a conference or a meeting or interview for a job. And so if we're more aware of that. then we can navigate life without creating more roadblocks. For those of us that, that really do a lot of movement, whether it's lifting weights and exercising, but we also are doing it because we want to feel good. If you will do it in a way that it serves you, not harms you, you will feel so much better. And when we also start to eat, move, sleep, navigate life, flowing with our menstrual cycles, or with perimenopausal symptoms, we actually end up feeling better, and our body then will produce its own hormones to balance that out. Um, so, that's a generalized view, I mean certainly I can get more detailed if you want that, but I feel that when you have a group of, of women and you're wanting to train them all at once, I would first say, Hey! Do you know where they are in their menstrual cycle? And does she know? Because if you have someone who's really competitive, and they're with other competitive athletes, but one of them can do a lot more than the other, that's going to get in your head. So here you are in your progesterone state, you can't lift as heavy, you can't run as hard, you can't push yourself, but your friend can, and they're beating you, you're also in the time of your cycle that you're going to feel more introverted, and sensitive, and negative, and... Wanting to say you're not as good as you could be. That's probably not the best setting to just say, Hey, go, go for it. Right? Let's go push him and let's max out on whatever this is. At the same time, if you have a group of females in a family and you're going to have a family meeting or make a major decision, recognizing that cyclically we are all not going to respond the same in that time period. So if we meet people where they are, And we're sensitive to that and not make assumptions and take a breath. We're going to navigate that better because we're all in a different place with a different vital sign at that moment.

That's very nice, um. It really sort of strikes a thought in my mind about this, this nature of competitiveness. You know, I'm, I'm all for making and helping women become strong or making the conditions to help them become strong. Uh, I've trained in different spaces, yoga, which is a much more inclusive space. generally, not always, but generally, uh, where we're invited to be really with what's going on, the posture, the breath, your state. Uh, there's more time and space. I've been in CrossFit where we're pushing hard and competing and having fun with that. And I like all of those spaces and I think they're all relevant, but there's something interesting about being self aware enough to go, what do I need today? You know, If it's a board meeting, if you're a founder running a company, maybe it's a terrible idea to do a creative meeting with your team because of where you're at in your cycle. So can you then schedule that at a better time and have a better output, rather than forcing yourself to be, in many ways, disingenuous? Like, you know, being a version of you that you're not supposed to be today. Such a vital, vital point. I'd like just to get a bit more tech, I know you could probably go super deep, but to broad stroke this. If, um, If a woman's listening and she's thinking, okay, I like to like to exercise and train and we'll just stay with that piece for now. The different phases, there's the luteal phase and what's the

So it's, uh, the follicular phase, then ovulation, and then luteal phase.

Luteal, yeah. So, talk us through from those three phases, perhaps, Generally, I know we have to generalize a little bit here, but to kind of give us a framework. Well, what kind of way should a woman be as she goes through that cycle? Take us from the sort of the beginning through to the end. What might be the, um, the complexion and the approach that will be mostly helpful?

Okay, so the start of your menstrual cycle is when you're actually bleeding from your previous cycle, right? So you're shedding the lining of your uterus and we always have to remember that this whole process starts in your brain So our brain and ovaries are talking to each other and they have to communicate with each other Well without anybody fighting with them Right? So your endocrine system is a system that's your hormonal regulating system. So your hypothalamus, pituitary gland, thyroid gland, adrenal glands, pancreas, ovaries. They're all glandular systems that are talking to each other. If one of them wants to just argue that day, then the rest of them are going to be off and so is your menstrual cycle. So always keep in mind when you're talking about a menstrual cycle, yes, we cycle, but anything in that endocrine system is going to throw off that cycle. So when we start our menstrual cycle, day one is the day that you start bleeding. That is the follicular phase of the cycle. So your ovaries will have all these follicles, or what people call cysts. And one of the follicles gets chosen. Hey, it's your turn. You get to release an egg. So that follicle in the follicular phase matures. So we're no longer little teenagers. We're going to grow up. That follicle is going to mature. So you have your follicular phase, that follicle matures, then you'll have something called LH, luteinizing hormone, release from your brain and then that tells that follicle, release the egg. Okay? Within 24 hours, you're going to ovulate. So that egg's released into the fallopian tube. You either get pregnant or you don't. Our bodies are thinking. I'm not saying that's how you're thinking, but that's simplistically. So you have ovulation, then your body gives time for that egg to be fertilized. If that does not happen, or it does, you still go into your luteal phase, right? So you ovulate, the time period happens, then your body says, okay, I need to create this plush environment and plant this egg and the uterine lining. So the luteal phase is that build up that lining to make it really plush and inviting and a great place for an egg to hand, you know, to be. That's typically 14 days if it's a normal luteal phase. And then when after that 14 days, if you're not pregnant, your body says, okay, nothing's happening. Let's shed. That is a menstrual cycle in the simplest way that I can. You know, it's much more complex than that but that's the simplest way. Now, follicular phase, when you're bleeding, right, you're having a period, you're shedding that line and you're losing blood, you're having cramping, you're having an increased prostaglandin release in your pelvis, which is gonna affect your bowels, whether you have constipation, diarrhea, urinary frequency, pressure on your lower abdomen, you're gonna have more joint pain possibly, symptoms like that. You'll have that menstrual cycle, and that's just a time to... Certainly all women need to be really conscientious about getting enough protein, and I can't say that enough. We need enough protein. And, so, you want to support that with protein, but that's not a time to necessarily do long fasts or to Do anything that's a stressor when you're bleeding. Now that bleeding may not last very long, right? So that may just be three days for you, five days for you, seven days for you. You certainly can exercise during that time. A higher protein, lower carb diet is great. Uh, when you get into that pre ovulation and ovulation time, that's when your testosterone level actually increases. And that is your, I have more energy, I feel good. You can do your plyo workouts. You can do a big cross fit workout. PR if you want. You can fast longer. You can push your body. Go for it. Now, I say that with a caveat. If you have a metabolic disorder, you have polycystic ovaries, you have autoimmune, you have chronic lack of sleep, you have other stressors, please, that's not what I'm saying to you. I'm saying for those that have the ability to have all the stars aligned just right. And yes, those things are great. Then when you, after you ovulate, that's your luteal phase. And that's a progesterone dominant state where you are A little more tired. You need a little bit more sleep. You need more complex carbs. Really shouldn't fast for long periods of time during that time if you're needing to support progesterone function. And during that time, maybe you could go on a longer, easier run if you wanted. You could still lift. Medium to Lightweights, but maybe that's not the time to run a marathon, or maybe that's not the time to compete in your event, or maybe that's not the time for you to do something that's going to really push your body mentally, physically, or otherwise. And so then the cycle repeats. That's the simplistic part of the menstrual cycle. Now I think of estrogen and progesterone like sisters, right? So, or twins. We'll say twins. So estrogen's like the outgoing, energetic, Say anything. Confident. Go for it. Hormone. Progesterone's like, Chill. Let's just hang out. Calm. Quiet. I want to watch a movie. Right? It's estrogen and progesterone. Now, women have a lot more testosterone than we're ever given credit for. And that's a super important hormone for us. Um, and testosterone is one that also gives us the ability to lift the heavy weights and to have the more confidence and have a sex drive and have a desire. And so I don't want to not mention that because it's important. But the sisters, estrogen and progesterone, is what we mostly think about in menstrual cycles and understanding follicular and luteal phases of menstrual cycles. Did that help? Ha ha ha!

I, I have taken the time to educate myself to some degree. I live with a woman. I have a sister, a female client. So I'm sensitive and aware to a certain level, but that was a beautiful, uh, journey through the menstrual cycle and the likelihood of what influences, what states, what way of being and what was appropriate. So thank you. That's so, so helpful because I guess we need to find the, the overarching understanding from people like you have done the work and really understand this. And then I've mentioned this phrase before, but you know, white label it and then say, well, what's that for me? What, what do I want to do exercise wise? What do I need to nurture myself? If you're in work, do I need to reschedule my meeting? You know, don't need to push that back a week because I'm just not thinking sharp. And it's about, for me, it's about that absolute connection to your body. You know, it's, it's, uh, in the, in the East, they, they talk about the Tao and if you had the Tao, but this principle, this, uh, overlap, overarching theme of energy that just runs and the more we get up in an abstraction of our mind, like I must do X or must do Y, if your body's saying, no, you need to, you need to sleep or you need to go gentle on yourself today and you push against that. We are actually in, in some ways, That's it's, a form of abuse in some ways to, to be quite a strong term, right. But it's a form of abuse, like forcing yourself to do something. Now, some people have to, I realize there are experiences in the world that you have to just get on with life. And there are times where we need that metal and that grunt, that kind of grit. But we're talking about most of the time here, aren't we? We're talking about how to be more syn, synthesized with your system, your, your cycle, your body, and more self aware. Now I want to kind of talk into the emotional space because we've got the physical in you. That's just so nicely articulated. Emotions. So, well, let's name it. Emotions are biochemicals, right. They're signals and messengers, and generally we term the word emotions and feelings the same, but technically emotions are biochemical and feelings are the psychological interpretation of that. So emotions could be, um, biochemicals that tell me I'm, uh, under threat, but the feeling I might have is I'm scared or I'm not safe. So I might interpret that. What about the emotional health? Of women. 'cause we talk about better health. We've spoken about the mentals cycle and the physical. Let's blend that into the emotional and sort of starting to move towards the mental or the psychological side of health. How do you work with that?

Well, I'm going to backtrack a little bit in order to answer that because I want to make sure that I speak to people in other realms of their reproductive life. Teenagers, their brains and ovaries are trying to talk to each other and they're not great at it. And so... Those of you that are guiding someone that's through adolescence, I just ask for you to have grace with them and let them know to have grace with themselves. When you're an adolescent going through cycles, you do need to sleep more. It's true. So when your teenager wants to sleep till noon on Saturday because they got up all week for classes, I say let them. They need that. And to also realize they don't understand why their bodies feel the way they do. They don't get any signaling green light, yellow light, red light. This is why you feel this way. And so you're not sure what you're going to get from them emotionally. You're not sure what you're going to get in their energy levels. And accepting of that and tell yourself that before you respond. Perimenopausal females. It's the same thing as teenage years. Just add some hot flashes, night sweats, irritability, you don't know what's coming when it's coming. And so if we are aware enough to have grace with ourselves and with others to say, this is what my body needs. It's okay to recognize it for what it is. No one needs to know that's how you're feeling. But if you say, Hey, I'm just kind of in a different headspace. So I'm going to sit back and listen. I'm with you. I hear you. I just need to kind of absorb today. And so if you have that meeting and you have no choice to go to that meeting, think through that before you walk in, this is where I am in my menstrual cycle. This is how I'm feeling. Go to the meeting. You may become a version of yourself that you're actually going to do better and be more intuitive during that time because you have a tendency to be more intuitive during that time than you would have been if you were in your confident estrogen driven self, right? And so, We aren't all having regular cycles, but we are hormonal creatures that change every day, all of the time. Um, so emotionally, you know, I would say the more we understand our bodies and the ebbs and flows, and for us hormonally understanding the brain connection to the rest of the body, the more likely we are to navigate those emotions in a healthy way. When I have someone who comes in and they just really are struggling with anxiety, They're so anxious all the time. I don't know why I'm anxious. I just can't make it stop. I can't turn it off. There's no reason. Everything's going fine. You know, I'm eating healthy. I'm trying to get good sleep. I'm not drinking a bunch of caffeine. I'm going on walks. You know, I'm doing all the things, right? Anxiety and lack of progesterone are common together. Now whether that is, Hey, do you feel that way all the time? Are you creating a journal of when you feel that way? Are you just feeling that for one to two weeks out of a month? Do you have no warning when that's happening? That tells a story, right? Is that hormonally driven? Of course I'm going to say everything's hormonally driven, but is it estrogen and progesterone and testosterone driven? Or is that something that we don't, can't quite define and it's very complex and has lots of variables? If you come in and you say to me, I am so depressed, I just... I don't have any energy. I'm really tired. I don't want to talk to people. I kind of want to run away. I want to hide. You've really got to find more about that story. How are you sleeping? Where are you sleeping? What's it look like? How are your relationships? How are you eating? What are your cycles? Are you having cycles? What supplements are you taking? What medications are you taking? What lab work have you had? Because as we age, One of the things to think about is estrogen is an insulin sensitive hormone. As we lose it, we are insulin resistant naturally. Please hear that. As you age and your insulin drops off, your insulin resistance increases. Well, duh! Is it your fault that you're having difficulty and you're gaining weight? Right? That you can't eat the carbs that you did before without paying for it? That you feel that carb load fatigue, anxiety, joints ache, things hurt, more headaches, brain fog? it's how your body is flowing, but you can do things to maximize that and how you feel. And so if you're having anxiety, depression, uh, any avenue of having personality difficulties, sleep difficulties, we need to look at the full picture and where you are. I would say on that mental health side of things, Nothing is as simple as saying it's just your hormones. We need to keep in mind that we have a thyroid that if it doesn't function properly, what's your thyroid do? Your thyroid releases FSH. What's that tell your ovaries to do? Right? It says release the follicle, or mature the follicle. What's LH do? Tells you to ovulate. Right? If your parathyroid is messed up, then your parathyroid is not telling your thyroid what to do. If your thyroid doesn't know what to do, then it's not going to tell your ovaries what to do. Then if your ovaries are releasing too much sex binding globulin and it's telling your pancreas that you need to release more insulin, then you become hyperinsulinemic. But then your adrenal glands are saying, I'm stressed, I'm stressed, I'm stressed. Cortisol driving a bus suppresses progesterone, right? So nothing is mutually exclusive. But we are going to demonstrate those symptoms with our emotions. I'm anxious, I don't feel good, my heart rate's racing, I'm having palpitations, my stomach hurts, I'm constipated, I pee all the time, my joints hurt, whatever it is, they are all interrelated, and the more we understand that, the more we'll be patient to realize to get to homeostasis is going to take time and understanding that process. It's a lot, you know, it's, a lot, it's

it, it is and it's so interesting. I, I, I don't, I understand a certain amount of hormones, so it's so fascinating to hear that. What I do understand is about systems and. Every part of the body is interrelated, you know, fascia, muscles, tissue, HRV. It's all related as so is the story in our mind and our experience of everything. So the more we understand, so I, I think of hormones as a chemistry set. And I've spoken about this with my, my, my experience of perimenopause. And if the chemistry sets out a whack, then we're going to have a, you know, potential chemistry explosion of some kind and same with physiological. So if you are. Hormonals are sedentary a lot. which is a big problem in the modern world. The modern world is designed for comfort. Chairs are everywhere, cars, it's like, we need to move because the modern world doesn't, doesn't demand it. But yet the body has been around for what thou hundreds of thousands of years developing as a moving system. And if It doesn't move, it's going to fail. So we need to look at that. But the hormonals thing is. so, so interesting to hear. I wanted to speak to, to that a little bit more. because there are things like osteocalcin that's created by bones, there's the hormone in the bones now that's been a fairly recent finding. So, and bones are signalling systems, so if we look at, because people talk about bones as structure, but they're also signallers, there's another term I've heard which is quite beautiful, like an antenna. If we are to move more, So let's say someone is struggling. They're, they're really stressed out, feeling anxious, a lot of pressures in life and work and all those, those experiences, but they haven't looked at the hormone mix, they haven't had a conversation with someone like you and maybe they're not moving that much as well. What might movement do to balance the chemistry set and that whole in, um, internal conversation that each organ is having? What do you know about the effects of movements on that process?

Well, we know that serotonin, you know, is our happiness hormone, right? And we know that when we exercise, we have a natural endorphin release, a release of your, your neural hormones that will cause happiness, right? And that's because in your brain, which estrogen lives with your neural hormones, right? If you are releasing more happiness hormones because you are moving, then you're automatically going to improve your hormonal health, right? And it doesn't take a lot of exercise. So if we get outside, which outside, sunlight, sky, there is something to that, the being outside, even if it's 10 minutes a day. Not only are we getting vitamin D from that, which vitamin D is not a vitamin, right? It's a hormone. We need to think of it as a hormone. If our vitamin D level is low, our hormonal function everywhere is off. Again, nothing's mutually exclusive. So if we get outside, we get the vitamin D and we get the movement, we're going to improve the release of the hormones that make you happy. You get the sunlight that naturally lights you up and then we will improve our hormone function, right? But at the same time, in the evenings, if you go out and it's dark, you're telling yourself when you go on that walk, You walk into the yoga studio, do yoga, you come back out and it's dark. You're also telling your cortisol, okay, it's time to decrease, it's time to calm down. It's time to quiet down. It's rest time. So, when we ebb and flow with our bodies and we move our bodies and get blood flow going, Absolutely, that helps every organ system in your body, but what we don't give enough credit is that sunlight, that vitamin D, that movement at the same time is going to release the hormones, are going to improve the hormone function that you have. It can be as simple as 10 minutes. Just go on a walk for 10 minutes. If you do that, one week you're going to feel different. That sounds contrite, sounds ridiculous. But it's really not. It's going to be a huge stress reducer. One of the things that I tell patients when they're having a lot of stress, so I would say majority of women, it's more that anxiety component, it's more that stress component, it's more that bleeding too much, cycles are too long, it's they have way too much insulin or they're insulin resistant and have a metabolic something going on, right? If I say, could you just do something for me? Every day after one of your meals, just go on a 10 minute walk. Ten Minute Walk. It will dramatically improve your health. Now, will you have a six pack? Will you have defined arms? Will you have big muscular legs? No, I'm not addressing that. I'm addressing hormonal health and mental health, right? Um, and so, movement is going to help with that hormonal release from your brain, which then inadvertently is going to affect everything else. At the same time, we need to talk about how muscles are are so important. If we have muscles as females, we're going to hold on to our hormones better. We're going to utilize them better. We're going to take care of the stress hormone better. Our insulin is not going to be an issue. If we have muscles and strength, we won't have sarcopenia. Sarcopenia is where your, as you age, your bones start to get brittle or start to be less strong. And that leads to osteoporosis, osteopenia, right? But sarcopenia. It will happen as you age if you don't try to fight that upward battle. And so movement and muscles and muscle strength will let you live longer, better bones, better heart, better mental health. Your brain, heart, and bones, with strength training, they go together. So, if we can all add... 10, 15 minutes of strength training five days a week. Doesn't have to be fancy. Doesn't mean a six pack. It means I want strong legs. I want strong arms, strong core, because I want to not have dementia because I want to not be hunched over and have osteoporosis because I don't want to have a shortened life and less of a quality of life.

Perfect. Uh, I, as the old expression, uh, singing off the same hymn sheet, but the more I've learned, the more I've got into this. Yeah, I think muscle loss is around 3 to 5 percent for, I think it's for male and female, but more for after the age of 40. Every year, which is insane. That's like, it's just your muscles just waste away muscles will hold onto glucose and help the whole kind of insulin glucose conversation. So if you, I think what is, I heard it someone describe it as a, as like a glucose sink, which is an interesting term, but Yes. And That's a whole thing, right. If your muscles are stronger, the denser, they're there. But it's also something around the mar large muscle groups of the legs. So if you're sitting, and this is a common problem for knowledge workers who are at a desk at a machine and they don't stand up for so long. Those big muscles don't switch on. The conversation information doesn't go through that whole, uh, physiological, chemical conversation. So we've got blood sugar issues and, and it's so simple, isn't it? Go walking. And of course the retina is the only part of the brain That's exposed outside the skull and that takes in the light, switches on all those circadian rhythms. And in some ways, I mean, people say to me, this is, honestly, it's not rocket science, it's neuroscience, you know, it's, it's like, it's, it's what we now know, but actually there's something about implicit understanding, because we all go, it's quite common to go for a walk after a heavy meal and think, oh, I feel a bit better. And yet we sometimes have got lulled into this modernity and like, Oh, I'll sit, I'll drive, I'll do this, I'll do that. Because walking up a hill is hard work. Carrying weights is hard work. I'm going to caveat that, right. Anyone says to me, oh, you know, training's hard work. I know most people. are hard workers. They either run businesses, they're freelancers, they're parents. Life is hard work. So you've got the skill. The misunderstanding with exercise, it's a thing you should do for a visual output. Like, I'll look better. And I, I, I spoke to someone once and I said to them, it's never about that for me. It's about a feeling. You can't buy the feeling of strength. in your body. You can't buy the feeling of vitality as you go for a run, and you don't have to be an athlete. You might do a two mile run, that's fine, but the feeling is something we strive for by buying products, by seeking experiences. A feeling is readily available when you connect with your body. and have that better understanding. It's so, so vital. Christine, I know you have a huge wealth in this, but I wanted to go to my other space that I spend a lot of time with people. And that's the mind, the thoughts, the story, the beliefs, the identity, who we are as a person, which in many ways dictates our body. I've seen people with a certain posture, which tells me probably how they all express as a person. And they'll tell me a story and I, they'll get up from a chair and I know how they're going to walk because they're interrelated. What would you say for, for our, for our listeners, for, for health, for women's health and perhaps the psychological piece, if you can speak to that, what's your part of working with that health part of a person, of a woman, and what can, what can they do about that?

So, once again, complex question, right? With a complex answer. Most of us, if not all, and I don't know if it's all, but we carry with us the traumas of our lives, we carry with the experiences of our lives, and many of the bad experiences are what define us and make us become who we are. I would say that professionally for me and, and the work that I've done was not for many years necessarily purposeful to go to the direction to speak on the level that I do. Uh, I am an introvert. So I am an introvert extrovert, right? So I would rather be at home. I'd rather not talk to people. I would rather work out by myself. I would rather read a book, watch a show, not talk on the phone. I'm just not that person. Social event, be with people, person, but because the pain that I've, I've experienced myself and the pain that I've watched other women hold onto, it's created purpose and that purpose is the only way that we can navigate forward without holding onto that pain is to recognize that the traumas, the pain, the adversity, that we carry each day. If we can turn that into a powerful purpose, then we can make a breakthrough in how we feel and how we live and the quality of our relationships and the quality of our lives and those moments in your life when you feel like you are not heard. If you've listened to yourself and you've said to yourself, I am worthy. If I'm just sitting here, Doing nothing, saying nothing, accomplishing nothing. I am still worthy. If I don't have this long list of degrees or accomplishments or this great job or this family or these children that I wanted so badly that I couldn't have, or this life that I wanted, or this, this spouse that I wanted, does that make you less worthy? It doesn't. And to have people come into my life in whatever capacity and knowing the pain that I carry every day, I don't want that for them. So if we can acknowledge and validate the feelings, the emotions, the trauma, and say, you're worthy, that doesn't define you. And if we can walk forward, you're going to feel better. Whether that's mentally, physically. Whether that's in your relationships and your future, acknowledging that our pain does not define us, it's what's going to evolve us. And if we can just say to ourselves, okay, that wasn't awesome. I wasn't that nice just now. I didn't handle that great. I'm gonna have grace with myself. I'm gonna release that feeling. And I'm going to move forward in a way that is going to improve, grow, and change. Now, am I good at any of this? No, I'm not. I'm learning and lots of therapy, right? Lots of journaling, walking, doing things wrong, screwing up, saying I'm sorry, apologizing, carrying the guilt, trying to release the guilt. But through that process, recognizing where I am in life, I'm a perimenopausal female, right? And I was an adolescent that had no one to talk to, and a young adult that had no one to talk to, and have coped with anxiety and depression, and having difficulty feeling that I am unworthy, which sounds ridiculous when you say it out loud, but that mental space of acknowledging where we are, and that our traumas, that our experiences, that the things that have happened in our lives, yes, they make us who we are, but they don't define us. And if we will face those, then we're going to feel better. And those vital signs I talked about are going to get better.

Beautifully put, and thank you for being so candid and honest and, and, and raw. It's so true. It's so, so true, isn't it? That, that sense of, We do so much as humans, certainly in the modern world, like, you know, uh, accolades, businesses, money, whatever the, the, whatever the signs or the external things, we're there, we're trying to prove something. It's such a big one with people I've worked with. What are you trying to prove? Why, why grow a business? Why be successful athlete? Whatever. What's that about? Because if there's a hole in your soul, None of that stuff will fill it. It doesn't work that way. So that's where you need to do the deep work and you know, trauma works powerful. Trauma is always the experience, normally from childhood for some reasons for many people, but it's where there wasn't power, you were helpless, and you didn't know what to do. You had to shut down. That's the kind of the trauma matrix. But when you move through, hopefully, your life and you've, you're with people who are kind and care, trauma can be healed. Trauma can be understood. Post traumatic growth is a well understood phenomenon, where we make meaning out of something, where we find our power back, we move on, and I love what you said there about moving from your pain, it's powerful. You know, I'm going to add in something which struck me many years ago, which is the art of Kintsugi. I don't. know if you know this, it's a Japanese, um, it's a Japanese philosophy and practice, and Kintsugi is, if you had a vase, And you broke your vase and it got on the floor. Instead of throwing it away, in the old tradition of the Japanese tradition, they would pick the vase up and they would mend the vase carefully and, um, bring it all back together, but the broken pieces they would fill with gold leaf. And what the, both the practice and the philosophy was that something that has been broken, repaired is more beautiful afterwards than it was before.

wow. Yes. Yes.

golden scars in your heart, in your soul, in your mind. If you have them, if you can repair them, it can be like this practice of kintsugi where yeah, the scars are revealed, but they glow with gold. And I think it's so important to face that stuff. It's not easy. Many of us have got traumas and it does need that attention. So that's really powerful. Thank you,

Sure. Well, and I think something I'd like to add there based on when you were talking about the looking at that vase and the broken pieces and putting it together is that that's our health care system. Our health care system in the U. S. is broken. It's reactive medicine. And in the maternal health realm and the reproductive health realm and the perimenopausal and menopausal health realm, it has been under researched, undervalued. Women have been dismissed. have been given treatment based on biases or lack thereof. And we have many women who've gone through traumatic childbirth that have had traumatic experiences as a mother based on how they were treated by a health care system. Society has told women many times over that our bodies are not as worthy as our male counterparts, that we are not as important as our male counterparts. And many of us will subconsciously start to think it's true. I'm supposed to take care of everybody else. I'm supposed to be treated like I don't get a choice and you're going to tell me what to do. I'm supposed to think that I don't get a choice. That what happens, I don't get a choice. And then you have the perimenopausal and menopausal population that have been shamed for their health. Process. This is a normal, natural health process. Why are we not allowed to talk about it? And why isn't it something that's mainstream discussion? We have women for decades that were told, Well, that's just how it is. You feel terrible? That's just how it is. So ask yourself, why are 80 percent of those in the Alzheimer's facilities women? Why are the majority of those that are having issues with osteoporosis women? Why are women more likely to die from a heart attack at that first MI event? Hormones decline, brain, heart, bones. Why are we not important? So I think if we recognize that we've been told for generations that we aren't important, that our voices shouldn't be heard, that what's occurred to us is just part of it, it just is what it is, that's how it is, deal with it. I want you all to tell yourselves, that's not okay. You are worthy. I'm sorry someone said that to you. Maybe it is where you are, but that doesn't mean that's how you have to feel. And I'm sorry that you weren't listened to, and you are just as worthy as your male counterpart, regardless of what politics tells you, the healthcare system tells you, if your color of your skin is not the same as your neighbor's, that does not make you less valuable or less worthy. We all should be heard. And if we can just get over that hurdle and treat. If each of us, like we deserve to be happy, feel good, be listened to, and be given the tools to navigate wherever we are the best we can, then we have truly left a legacy of better health. We can't get there until we let those barriers come down. And we will only get there if each of you out there, not me, not you Sal, every person that's listening, that's out there, that's navigating this life with you, feels that way too or is told that enough times they believe it. Right? So if I tell my kids, you really need to eat that broccoli and we know that if you're exposed to that broccoli, I can't remember the science now, but it's, I want to say 15 times in your taste buds adapt, depending on your age or something like that. Right? So if we tell someone enough times, you are heard, you are worthy. Your value is just as much as everybody else. Eventually you will believe it. And then guess what? You're going to pass that down to the generations after you. Cause you're going to say, you know what? You're not perfect, but you are beautiful. Like you are, you are wonderful. Like you are, you deserve to feel good. You deserve to be heard. Is that not where we should be? Sorry for that, but it's just really important to me, you know, for people to, to hear that we're listening, we care and it doesn't have to be this way.

You're welcome. I'm going to pull you up. Don't apologize. This is a platform where, you know, I'm a white male, you know, and it's, you're born, I'm born, it's a privilege just because it is, and only in more recent times have one understood that. But of course, that's part of the conversation when you go, ah, oh, I'm part of the. not problem as such, but I'm part of the solution. So it's like, Yeah. let's have someone like Christine be vocal and to be profound and to be there and to share that and say, I hear you. I see you What do we do together? Cause we can't do it on our own. And I think it's about coming together, isn't it? So, wow. Well, it's been an absolute delight to have you on. Thank you. for sharing your knowledge, both in the health field, in the women's space, um, as an advocate of women and. about being a valid human being at the end. It's really precious and I'm so thankful you came to join me today. So my dear listener, I hope that you have just made loads of notes. Do hit the replay and grab the understanding of the phase if that's your thing. Uh, as always, I'm reachable on the pod page, my social channels, my website links for myself and for Christine will be in the show notes. So stay present, stay connected, take care. Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed the episode, please subscribe and if a friend would benefit from hearing this, do send it on to them as well. If you would like to get in touch yourself, then you can go to my website, which is sal jeffries.com, spelled S A L J E F E R I E s sal jeffries.com. Hit the get in touch link and there you can send me a direct message. If you'd like to go one step further and learn whether coaching could help you overcome a challenge or a block in your life, then do reach out and I offer a call where we can discuss how this may be able to help you. Until the next time, take care.