Eddie: Welcome to episode 33 of the web joy podcast.
I'm your host eddie and in this podcast we interview guests about their origin story
and what makes them excited and joyful to be part of the tech community i hope you
enjoy today's episode the learning journey never actually stops with dj taylor
Well, I'm excited to have DJ here today.
Dj, let us know who you are, what you do, where you work, uh, the brief
introduction about yourself, if you will.
DJ: Awesome.
Yeah, Eddie, thanks for having me on.
Yeah.
My name is DJ Taylor.
I live in Los Angeles.
My wife and I have lived here for almost three years now.
We really love it out here.
I originally grew up in Texas and then also lived in Chicago,
so kind of been all over.
So now I am a, uh, software engineer.
I work at a startup that is based in Austin, Texas.
It's called First Dollar.
I just finished my fourth month, so I'm, I'm still very new to Tech.
Yeah.
My first job and yeah, I'm loving it.
I mean, I'm, I'm getting to do a little bit of everything in, in my role and it's,
it's just everything that I had hoped for.
What
Eddie: kind of got you to the point of thinking about going into tech?
Obviously this is a, a new thing that you're doing right.
Four months into the job, what was kind of the thing that spurred.
That direction
DJ: for you?
Yeah.
You know, there's, there's really no way to avoid this, but honestly
it was kind of the early days of the pandemic time was teaching and that
presents its own challenges, of course.
Um, but, you know, I, I was just kind of trying to branch out and see
like what else out there as far as other career paths or possibilities.
Yeah, I actually kind of stumbled upon this platform that was teaching music.
That's kind of my background as well.
I, I play instruments and taught music as well.
But anyway, so it was, it was teaching music along with learning how to
code like really basic JavaScript and like Python and that sort of thing.
And I was like, oh, that seems really interesting.
Let me just like check this out.
Maybe my students would enjoy doing that.
And what I found was even from my first little, you know, hel Hello World program,
I was just like, oh, this is really cool.
Let me keep on doing it on my own.
And what I found over the last couple years was that my curiosity was just
peaked and, and I was just trying to learn as much as I could and I was
just so, so motivated to, to come back to that and like pretty much
any moment of spare time that I had.
So that was really kind of the biggest thing, was just kind of like
giving me something to focus on.
That was also enabling me to be creative and like work some of
those same muscles that I was used to as a musician and as a teacher.
So yeah.
That's awesome.
Eddie: You know that you've been sucked in when you can't get it out of your mind.
Right?
You're thinking about a project or you're thinking about the
code you were just doing.
Totally.
When you're no longer doing it and you're like, oh, I've been bitten by the
DJ: code bug . Totally.
Yeah, and I really knew it.
I'd been bitten.
When I was having dreams about like problems and like some of them are
stressful, some of them were fun, but like, yeah, if there was like a JavaScript
problem that I couldn't figure out and like I'm stress dreaming it, but
I was like, okay, yeah, I'm in now.
There's no escape at that point.
You're done.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
For sure.
. Awesome.
Eddie: Well, yeah, I guess kind of how did you go about getting into tech, right?
Did you.
Self-teach.
Did you use specific resources online?
What did that kind of journey to learning technology development
and ultimately getting a job look
DJ: like?
It was a little bit of everything.
I would say.
I don't know the percentage of people that start on free code camp, but
I'm, I imagine it's pretty high.
Like that was kind of my first exposure to just kind of basic.
H T M L C S S, JavaScript kinds of things.
And then from there, just kind of branching out, uh, to some
different online platforms.
At that point, it's still free.
I eventually kind of got into some Udemy courses.
I was like, you know, there's a ton of, uh, of resources here.
So I, I did like one of the boot camps that is there and it's,
again, it's all self-paced.
You kind of like code along with the instructor, but that was really fun and.
I really started thinking about like, okay, I, I want this to
be my next step, my next move.
So how can I best situate myself to do that?
And so, you know, I just reached out to friends who I knew had made similar
transitions in their careers and kind of got turned onto some bootcamps.
And so I did my research there.
and connected with actually a mutual, mutual friend of ours, Lauren Yu.
Um, and she talked about the Flatiron School and that's
kind of what I settled on.
And what was interesting about that program was that at the time they had
this offering that was self-paced.
You know, it's a little bit different cuz I wasn't in like one specific cohort that
was like working with 10 to 15 people.
They basically just gave you the whole curriculum.
You know, you have check-ins with instructors, but you know, you
build your portfolio, you learn all the concepts, and then at the
end you're able to graduate again.
As a teacher, I had my summer completely open and I basically spent, I'd say
like eight to 12 hours a day just in that curriculum as hard as I could.
And yeah, really, really loved that.
So yeah, I built my portfolio.
Started like doing all the career stuff.
I had like a job, like a coach who was basically mentoring
me through the job hunt.
Um, but I knew there was something missing.
I was like, gosh, I feel like I have some seeds that are planted,
but I feel like what I really need is like this, this like sense of
working together with other people.
And that's where the collab lab comes in.
And I'm sure we'll talk about that later.
But basically that was like an eight week program.
I'm working with a team of developers as well as mentors
and we're building this app.
And you know, to me like that was definitely the final.
Puzzle piece in terms of just tying everything to together,
because being self-taught is great.
I, I, I definitely advocate for that because there is so much out there.
But you also do need that kind of teamwork and like how to work on a distributed team
in the real world, cuz that's, you know, what I'm doing in my job now for sure.
So, yeah, that's kind of how I got there.
You know, it's, it's kind of cool because like the learning journey never actually
stops because even in my job, like.
So much that's coming at me.
I'm learning stuff every day and that's definitely one of the things that I'm,
that I'm loving about it as well, is that you can get comfortable for a little
while, but like there's, there's gonna be something new to learn and to explore
and that's just really exciting to me.
Eddie: That statement that you said, the learning never stops
like that is totally true.
I mean, I have been in programming for over 15 years.
I literally have never been able to stop learning.
There's always something new.
There's always some other way to do it.
There's always a different approach, or it's like when you finally figure out
the tech, then you have to start figuring out like you even, like you work with
a new company on a new product, and you have to figure out, okay, well what?
What do these customers care about as opposed to my last customers cared about
and like, Even when you're not learning the tech, you're learning the industry.
Because when we change jobs, I mean, some people stay in like, I don't
know, big banking or I don't know what other industry you might stay in for
a long time, but really most of us go from industry to industry every time
we change jobs, which is just, I don't know, programming is like one of the
few jobs, I think, where you literally change industries with every job
DJ: change.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
But I love that about, about being Yeah.
A developer, you know, it's just like the, the skills are so transferrable and
there's so many opportunities out there.
I, I think that that's, that's just super cool to know that like
your career can take you a bunch of different places, so that's great.
Yeah.
Eddie: We'll definitely touch on the collab lab more.
That's actually where you and I met, so lots of love there.
But yeah.
Kind of next up, we typically, you know, talk about something that brings the
guest of the episode, which is you, our distinguished guest, you know, brings them
joy and sometimes it's apps or technology or communities or things like that.
And so I was just curious like what is it that kind of brings
you joy that you wanted to talk
DJ: about?
I think I wanna hit on two things actually.
I, I definitely wanna talk about kind of the connections that I've
made along the way in my journey.
Um, but I also wanna talk about like, we've been hitting on this,
uh, a little bit before, but just like learning and curiosity and
like what feeds us in that way.
So, I mean, to start with community, like music in my background, like I just
grew up playing music with people and being in ensembles and working together.
And so I feel like that sense of community and collaboration is just so.
It's so central to like who I want to be and, and how I wanna live my life.
And I just love that.
In the last, again, couple years, the, the connections that I've
made, whether it's mentors or fellow developers who are also learning
along the way, it's just been so cool.
And I think about actually a couple of relationships that really I.
Come full circle.
Um, number one is Lauren.
Again.
We have mutual friends who go way back cuz she also has a,
a music musical background.
But, you know, she was kind of my first like influencer, if you will.
Like I definitely looked up to the sense of courage that she had to
make this leap and then to see her like really thriving in her role.
It was just so cool.
So I definitely like, Took her advice and definitely sought out like her,
uh, inputs, uh, especially early on.
And then actually the company that I worked for, basically the, the VP of
engineering, my, my boss, I, I've known him since like, we were like 18 years
old, like back in college, . Oh, wow.
That's awesome.
Yeah, we, we didn't keep in touch like after school so much.
We kind of went our separate ways, but like, I think it was my first LinkedIn
post, a mutual friend of ours liked it.
And then, Mike, uh, he saw that post, he sent me a direct message in LinkedIn,
was like, dj, it's so cool to see that you've like done this transition.
Let's just catch up some time.
I wanna hear how life is going.
And you know, it just started off as very organic like connection.
And in the back of my mind, like I knew, I was like, this would be the dream.
Like I would love for this to be my first job just because knowing him, it
being a smaller company so that I can really like focus on building relat.
With other people on my team.
It was just like, this is perfect.
And it was hard, obviously like job, the job hunt is like scary
and like very intimidating.
But I kind of had this like thought in the back of my mind it was like, this
is gonna work out and it's it, you know?
So it was definitely this kind of full circle moment.
And I think we need that sort of thing in, in our world today.
You know, there's just a lot that's happening outside and to know that like,
you know, we have our people, we have our.
It's super important.
Yeah, absolutely.
That's definitely bringing me joy.
But yeah, I also kinda wanna talk about like, again, learning a bit more.
Like I think that the, um, kind of your intention and like the curiosity
that I have had over these last couple years has been so, like, rejuvenating,
you know, it's like, it's very possible to kind of get stuck in one
mindset or one mode in your career.
And I was definitely feeling that as a teacher.
I was just like, I just.
Like, I know I don't really wanna be doing this, but I don't know
what else is out there, you know?
And so to like really land on something that's like, again, that's
so fulfilling and just has so many like possibilities, I just can't imagine
what the last couple years would've been like without learning how to code
and like going through this journey.
So that's been really special to me as well.
Eddie: No, I think, I think that's huge.
Like learning is such a key part of who we are.
Developers, and
DJ: I just wanna
Eddie: throw a shout out to a previous episode that people, you know, if you
didn't listen to this and you know you're coming in on this episode or the one
before it, one of our early episodes with Jason, we talk about kind of continuous.
Learning, and I think that's definitely like a big thing is developers,
is that we're always learning.
And I think that's one of the things that can help kind of
click and let you know that like you should be a developer, right?
If like you don't like learning, you probably shouldn't be a developer because
you're going to end up either very unhappy or you're gonna have to find like a job.
For example, like a lot of our banking systems are using some programming
languages from the eighties.
Like, okay, if you learn that programming language and go to the banks, like you
can probably stick in that job for a while and not have to learn something new.
But it's very rare that there are areas that aren't changing, then
aren't evolving, and that if you don't learn along with it, like
you'll either be miserable or have a a hard time on the job.
So I think that's definitely a key.
Character trait of developers.
So
DJ: I love that.
Totally.
Yeah, and I think to piggyback on that, I mean this isn't about getting
jobs, but I feel like having, I've sat on the other side of the table
now and interviewed like a couple of candidates and it's like skill is great.
You know, portfolio is great, but like you're also trying to gauge again,
someone's desire to keep learning and like how willing they are to like take.
And like, put themselves out there and be vulnerable, which is like a real thing.
I mean, there's a, an engineer on my team who, you know, worked at
Google for 10 years and like, just again has a lot of experience.
But like his number one thing is like get used to the
feeling of being uncomfortable.
Right?
And that's not like a bad thing, that's just like kind of a sign.
There's gonna be stuff that you're gonna have to learn and like figure
out and like work your way through.
And that's just part of the day to day, you know, it's kind of a
reality of it, but it can definitely be a really positive thing as well.
Cause like you're never gonna.
Hopefully into like this rut that like you're just kind of stuck.
You know?
Like of course that'll happen occasionally cuz that's just life.
But like there are always those opportunities out there.
Eddie: And that is interesting because that kind of reminds me
of a lot of people in the industry talk about imposter syndrome, right?
And a lot of times people feel.
Feel like imposters, right?
They have imposter syndrome.
They don't wanna tell anyone because they feel scared by it.
And what they don't realize is like everyone in the industry
has imposter syndrome, right?
Totally.
Yeah.
And it's so interesting because I think imposter syndrome, literally, the reason
it's so prevalent in our industry is because, Imposter syndrome thrives when
you are just outside your comfort zone.
And so as developers, we're always having to learn.
We're always having to, like your friend mentioned, right?
Like always having to be a little bit uncomfortable because we're doing
something we've never done before.
Sometimes we're doing something, the company has never been done before.
Sometimes you're doing something that literally hasn't been done.
Right.
And that creates imposter
DJ: syndrome.
Right.
So interesting.
Yeah.
And that's like a very real thing.
I mean, it depends on the day, but like I can totally relate to that.
You know, it's just like, and of course I'm still like super early
on in my career, but you definitely hear about more experienced folks
feeling that and you know, it's just something to accept, I feel like,
and then again, you, you figure out.
You identify what that is and you're like, oh, there's definitely
opportunities to grow here.
You know?
And that's kind of how you, I feel, like, funnel that energy, so.
Absolutely.
Eddie: Yeah.
And I think, like you said, I think most people who say that they haven't
felt imposter syndrome either, a, they don't really understand what people
are talking about, and so they don't identify it or b, They're lying.
Um, , you know what I mean?
Like, because like for a long time I wouldn't have necessarily identified,
oh, I've felt imposter syndrome until I really thought about it at times.
And it's like, it can be subtle, right?
It can be as subtle as like, you get really anxious when the
boss is like, Hey, let's chat.
And it's like, well, why am I nerd?
Like I've been working in tech for 10 years.
Why am I getting nervous that the boss wants to chat?
There's no reason I would be fired.
Right.
But like the back of your mind, you're like, I'm gonna get fired
DJ: like . Yeah, I know.
Yeah.
You just never know.
Like it's, it's crazy.
. Yeah.
, Eddie: going back to what you talked about, connections
made along the way, I think.
That's such a, a key thing is that like, yes, we can build some things alone,
but so much of what we build, right, it thrives on working with each other.
It thrives on building relationships with those around us, and that kind
of leaves us to, to the end, which is.
I like to ask someone if there's anything that they, you know, have been
involved in or that they've worked on that they'd like to share that they
think the community might find helpful.
I think what you have to share kind of aligns nicely with that.
DJ: Totally.
Yeah.
It's how we know each other.
It's how we got into all of this, and that is the collab lab.
And it's kinda a lot to say, it's a little bit hard sometimes, but, uh,
again, I, I definitely recommend.
Anyone who is like, on the path to making this kind of career change
or just on their learning journey to definitely check out Collab Lab.
It's a, it's a program that's open developers all over the world.
It's completely free and, you know, basically you, you apply and then
if you're accepted into the program, you're, you know, assigned to a team.
I think of like four developers, I guess it could be.
And then you have anywhere from like two to four mentors who are in the
industry, like they're working, you know, they have experience and you
know, it's, it's very condensed.
It's about eight weeks long, but they're super mindful of time, you
know, cuz we have lives, uh, you know, people have jobs, et cetera.
And so, you know, you're spending like four to six, maybe eight hours a week.
Either, you know, syncing with your fellow developers or, you know,
having standups with the entire team.
And I just can't think of a better experience that I had over the course
of my learning journey, honestly, not only to work with mentors and
like get that direct feedback, um, but also to like pair program with.
People who were like kind of near where I was in terms of my learning.
Like it was just life changing.
I, I totally mean that.
And you know what was really cool about it was, you know, I actually,
I got my job at first dollar in my second or third week of the collab lab.
Like that's kind of how the timing worked.
So I was kind of doing both at the same time, but even like in the
couple of weeks prior to my job and then like as I was navigating both.
The experiences were so similar in terms of, again, working on a team of
de developers, you know, having these stories you're working on, similar
to like what a product manager would give you, you know, in, in a sprint.
And then like doing demos and being able to talk through like what you
worked on and working through, you know, different challenges like.
They were almost the same and, and I feel like it just gave me a ton of confidence,
you know, going into my first job and then like also having collab lab on the side.
It was just really, really meaningful.
And again, talk about community.
Like that community has so much love for each other and like
they're working so hard to build up people trying to get into tech.
I think that that's actually kind of rare in a way.
I will say that like, again, people in tech are super helpful in general, but
like, you know, with boot camps and that sort of thing, like at the end of
the day, those are businesses, right?
Like they're trying to make money.
Like there's that factor, right?
And this is all volunteer run.
All the mentors are doing it in their free time as well.
Yeah, I just think there's really something special about that.
So definitely recommend checking it out.
I definitely want to be a mentor someday.
Like I haven't really had a chance to, uh, in the last couple of runs,
but I definitely think that's gonna be something that I am, that I get into.
So also, if you are a more experienced developer, check out being a mentor, cuz
I know that they're, you know, definitely looking for folks who want to kind of add
that to, you know, their, their activit.
Yeah, absolutely.
Eddie: You know, like DJ mentioned, like from my perspective, I was actually one
of the mentors on his team and coming from a place of being an engineering
manager to what you said, like it really felt like what you do in the day job.
You know, there's a team of four developers that are.
Working on things and like you don't want to micromanage, right?
You want people to be able to learn on their own, but then you're
trying to figure out how do I speak into and help encourage people?
So I think if anyone is thinking about doing like engineering
management and stuff, that's a great.
Like thing to be able to say, Hey, go do mentorship and
see how that clicks with you.
And if it really clicks and you're comfortable with it, then maybe, you know,
they're not the exact same job, but it gives you a little bit of a taste of it.
And if that works really well, then maybe you do want to like, Talk to your company
more about like heading in that direction and it, it helps your resume, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
Having the mentor.
So yeah, I think it's amazing because this community creates value for the
people that are developers, that are learning, for the mentors who are coming
in and figuring out, like we learn, everyone always talks about we learn
best when we're teaching others, right?
And so like, To your point, right?
Coming back in and being a mentor when it works with your schedule and everything
like that, helps you kind of up your game to figure out how to help coach
people, how to lead people through.
So I think it's an amazing kind of cyclical program that
just helps build things on
DJ: both sides.
Totally.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
And, and just like the passion people have, you know, like when there's Yeah.
An opening for volunteer work, whether that's like working on the,
the website or something like that.
Like people are just so quick to like, jump in on Slack or Twitter or
whatever and be like, I'm there for it.
You know, I'm, I'm here to help.
You know, so that's, yeah.
That's just really, that's really cool to see.
Yeah.
And I also like really admire that people bring their unique stories and experiences
with them and like definitely make that.
Like a really important part of the program.
You know, like there's, there's folks who are like really diving
deep into things like accessibility, which again, stuff that kind of
gets talked about, but not really.
And like even in my experience, like limited experience, like that was
definitely front of mind the entire time was how can we make things more
accessible and like, what are the things we can do to improve that, you know?
And I think that there's definitely, there's definitely room for
more conversations around that.
And, you know, just getting.
Young developers and mentors, like thinking about that, like
that's, I think that's gonna have a, a big impact for sure.
Eddie: Absolutely.
Yeah.
I love, like you said, that it can kind of be an incubator for what
the next generation of engineering managers and developers, kind of how
they think and how they approach.
It's the way things should be done.
DJ: Yeah, absolutely.
Sweet.
Eddie: Well, I will include a link to the collab lab in the show notes
if anyone wants to check it out.
And dj, thank you so much for coming on and joining the podcast.
Awesome.
DJ: Yeah, thanks for having me, Eddie.
Eddie: Thank you for joining us for episode 33, the learning journey
never actually stops with DJ Taylor.
You can find out more about DJ on his website, DJ Taylor codes.com.
You can find links to everything we talked about in this episode, as well as
a link to DJ's website in the show notes.
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