Heather: [00:00:00] Hello everybody. We are here with a special guest today. So we're gonna be talking to you guys about the vaginal microbiome and all the things that can go both poorly and wonderfully there. So our guest today is Wendy Strgar, and she is an award-winning serial entrepreneur and the founder of Good, clean Love Vaginal Biome Science and Womankind Care.
Strgar commitment to vaginal health led to the development of patented biom matched technology, an innovative scientific approach, applying biomimicry to the formulation of women's health products as CIO at Good Clean Love and CEO at vaginal biom science in Womenkind Care. She's developed a quantitative microbiota panel and the most advanced and effective product technologies to stabilize vaginal microbiome health.
And has affected change in both osmolality and animal testing requirements at the FDA. So, welcome, Wendy. Thank you for being here.
Wendy: Yeah. You're so [00:01:00] welcome. I really appreciate you having me, Heather.
Heather: Yeah, this is great. And then Wendy and I talked prior to the, podcast recording and, I'm just, you know, I'm excited about all the things you're doing in the world, and you are, I think you are just like a creator extraordinaire. And I know that when we talked before, you said, you're just a good problem solver.
I'm like, do you have a science background? How are you making all these things happen?
Wendy: Yeah, so I think, you know, I always love to say that necessity is the mother of invention
and and you really can tell the difference of. Entrepreneurs when they're really, truly like starting something 'cause they're trying to solve something
opposed to the entrepreneur types that we see now who are like, well, what could be my exit?
Right. That's a,
you know, where people are inventing problems
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: like, or, or like making. Copies of solutions that already exist. So
Heather: Yep.
Wendy: interesting problems to solve are the ones that no one will touch. And that's why vaginal health is so easy, right?
Heather: A hundred percent.
Wendy: [00:02:00] nobody's been touching that for decades.
I mean,
Heather: I know.
Wendy: before I was born, the standard of care has not changed in, you know, 75 years.
Heather: Yeah.
Wendy: I mean by that is that the treatments are not measurably different, except that now we apply antibiotics to everything, women's health, and frequent. Same antibiotic over and over again and for longer and longer periods of time. don't like, actually, we, we haven't really developed a method to collect real data that tells us what's happening.
Heather: Yeah.
Wendy: that's why I developed that microbiome panel.
Heather: And I mean, I wanna kind of let people listening know too, I feel like we're using kind of fancy words, but basically what this means is like if you get bv, if you get yeast infections, if your partner gets any of those or UTIs, like all of that is related to the vaginal microbiome. and the, we've discussed before that the vaginal microbiome is also connected to, you know, the gut microbiome.
And we have a sinus microbiome. And a oral [00:03:00] microbiome, and it's just.
Wendy: it's all one microbiome, right? So you, so, so the microbiome, which is really not well understood still, but for the last 25 years. we've really been spending a lot of time working on the gut microbiome
Heather: correct.
Wendy: and so and so, so in many ways, most people, even doctors will say if they give you an antibiotic, take a probiotic also,
Heather: Right,
Wendy: we know that there's good bacteria and bad bacteria that affects those areas. what we don't really understand is how those. How those bacteria differ in each area, right? So your sinuses have a different healthy bacteria than your oral biome, than your gut biome, then your vaginal
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: So it's not the same bacteria that's protecting each of those areas.
Heather: Right?
Wendy: acidophilus is really good in the gut,
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: so great in the vagina, for instance,
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: But we also know what's in common is that if [00:04:00] you have a lot of. Oral decay, teeth decay, right? Then like just in the same way that if your gut is sick, right? Like you have IBF or a lot of chronic gut conditions,
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: you're gonna be sick in every way, right?
Because that's the hub of your immune system. Same with your mouth. If you've got a lot of bad bacteria thriving in your mouth 'cause you don't have good dental care for whatever reason, that can give you mental illness and diabetes.
Heather: Wow.
Wendy: I mean directly, right? So, so we know that this microbiome, our body microbiome
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: regulating our health in really important ways, our whole body health.
Heather: Yep.
Wendy: that is also true about our vaginal health. I. So when you have a vaginal condition, like you mentioned UTIs, or BV or chronic yeast,
Heather: Yeah.
Wendy: of those things are chronic, that means that you have 'em all the time, right? Or they just keep coming back and
Heather: Right.
Wendy: That isn't just [00:05:00] affecting your vaginal health, that's also affecting your microbiome. Writ large, right?
Heather: Yep.
Wendy: so, so I think there's a lot of really important things that we're gonna learn over the next decades about this. and I'm just trying to do a small piece of that.
Heather: I think you're doing a pretty great piece for one human so far, which is cool. Can you tell us though, like, how did you get into this, especially someone who doesn't have a science background and you've like created all of these companies, like what's your journey been?
Wendy: so, you know, like I said, necessity, being the mother of invention, I was really trying to save my marriage when I started all this, right? I had had four children and you know, now we're coming to really understand just what a huge, huge. Feet It is to even have one child, right? Like
Heather: Yeah.
Wendy: changes that happen in your body, not just during the pregnancy, but post the pregnancy.
You know, there's all these people wanting to add like a fourth trimester, you know, because really like [00:06:00] hormonally and all these things that change. But back when I was doing it, people didn't really, it was just, oh, you're having another baby, right? Like, it
Heather: Right,
Wendy: a thing.
Heather: right.
Wendy: what, having children.
Like, you know, travel through your vaginal canal and you know, be born, does to that part of your body is really substantive, right? And so I, by the time I had my fourth kid was kind of a vaginal wreck, honestly.
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: had to have a, a surgery to put my vagina back in where it belonged. And we, you know, they cut out like an inch and a half of tissue that had stretched
Heather: Oh wow.
Wendy: Yeah, that surgery was more painful than any birth, and I had
Heather: Oh my God.
Wendy: and it took me over a year and a half to heal the tissue in there. So I, so I had with s3x for a long time after, especially after the last birth and that surgery.
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: know, I like s3x. I liked [00:07:00] s3x and, and for us in our marriage, it was a really important part of us staying together. So I was really highly motivated to come up with a solution and the doctors kept giving me like KY or Astroglide or products that are largely made with petrochemicals, like propylene glycol, polyethylene glycol, methylene, propyl, parabens, ingredients that some people may have noticed on a label.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: we have no idea what those ingredients are.
'cause we never have them in our kitchen, right? We don't really know what
Heather: Yeah.
Wendy: I didn't know what they are. And, I started studying what they are and they're like brake fluid and
Heather: Oh God.
Wendy: and yeah, like ingredients that you would use in motor engines, but like how could that be applied to a personal care product is like,
Heather: This is a great question.
Wendy: So, so I, so at first I kept it a secret. Like what? Like I thought, how could this be true? Right? But then the more research I [00:08:00] did, the angrier I got,
Heather: Yeah.
Wendy: because like pretty much almost every product on the shelf is made with these ingredients, right? I
Heather: Right,
Wendy: to change now, but
Heather: right.
Wendy: big companies, even though they kind of try to greenwash and say it's better for
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: still using a lot of these same toxic
Heather: Correct.
Wendy: And so when you call an ingredient toxic, I've had some biophysicists over the years admonish me
Heather: Oh,
Wendy: like saying, well, you can't pick out one ingredient. That ingredient is innocent. It's a formulation.
Heather: okay.
Wendy: this is like sort of how I learned science actually, was that some scientist adopted me and tried to. He was very
Heather: That's.
Wendy: met him when he was 79 and he was so young. I was like, God, I wanna be like you when I'm 79. You
Heather: Yeah.
Wendy: But anyway, so, so what I learned about first was the idea of osmolality,
Heather: Yes.
Wendy: and that's what we brought to the FDA, actually, that's how we [00:09:00] changed some of those regulations because to the extent that the FDA didn't actually take into account the osmolality of a product formulation, then they were basically allowing continuously, allowing more products into the market that were really, really toxic
Heather: what is osmolality? Tell us that.
Wendy: So osmolality is, so remember osmosis from
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: grade and you know, like chemistry, 11th grade. Everybody learned this for a
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: know, so this is how our cells like balance what's inside and outside of the cell. so when you think of like the, like think of the tissue in, in your mouth,
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: different than the skin on your hand, right? Like, so the, the tissue in your mouth or inside your nose, that's a special kind of, tissue. the name will come to me in a
Heather: Mucus membranes.
Wendy: Yeah, there you go. It's
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: membrane that's like what your entire [00:10:00] microbiome is made of.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: it's in your vagina or in your gut, or in your sinuses, right?
Like it's all that same tissue.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: actually the most sensitive tissue in the body, right? It's actually keeping alive good bacteria, or letting bad bacteria thrive.
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: So what protects that in the vagina? What protects that is the vaginal epithelium or the top layer
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: that tissue, right? And that is like the immune barrier, if you will, for like keeping good back, good bacteria there and bad bacteria out.
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: but when you use products that are hyperosmolar, that means that they're too heavy. So they're pulling all the moisture out of the cells in
Heather: Oh.
Wendy: layer.
Heather: That,
Wendy: more you do it, it'll go deeper and deeper into that tissue. Right, and so then you're losing this protective barrier, and then the bad bacteria can really have a party there,
Heather: oh, this is terrible. Okay.
Wendy: [00:11:00] so, so that's why osmolality matters so much because you know, you can't do things like pH balance or moisturize or
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: else that you think would be helpful if you are so disruptive that the whole microbiome is like outta kilter, and
Heather: That's a really good.
Wendy: molar products do.
Heather: Which is almost all of them, by the way. So let me back it up to how I found you. So first I think I went to a local sex toy store and I was like, I need the most natural, organic, clean ingredient lube out there. And they gave me yours. I think they gave me the good, clean, love BioNude, and I was like, okay, great.
And like part of what I love about it is that you don't have to think. 'cause I'm always like, wait, silicone you can use with this, but not with this or this. You can do with condoms but not to. And then this one I'm like, you can just use it with everything and you don't have to like hurt your brain thinking about it.
So that was appealing. And then I always interviewed, I think it was for a glam magazine article and about lubes. And they were like [00:12:00] asking me about all these different brands and what's my top pick and this and that. And as I was doing the research, I was just horrified. I was like, like 90. It's like 95% of them, like basically all of them except for your company are like, which is not true.
Like there's some other ones that are like decent, but like,
Wendy: But, but, but they're good by accident. They're
Heather: yeah,
Wendy: because they're doing science and trying to
Heather: no,
Wendy: good. They're
Heather: no.
Wendy: because they're not using these horrible ingredients
Heather: But it's wild to me that like it's, it's legal and it's okay for companies to market these products for like genital use and intimate use. That's like actually really not good for you.
Wendy: Well, I mean, and it
Heather: Yeah.
Wendy: even worse than that, right? So like, then you have this hyperosmolar product. It's completely created a totally dysbiotic environment.
Heather: Right.
Wendy: means, dysbiotic means that you're about to get bv or you're about to get, um, so you, I mean,
Wendy: so here's a terrible statistic, but it's true.
when you [00:13:00] use these products,
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: become 60% more susceptible to, getting BV
Heather: That's wild.
Wendy: times as likely to transmit that illness to your partner.
Heather: Oh my God. And then it becomes chronic, by the way. 'cause then you might get rid of your own bv, but then your partner keeps giving it back to you.
Wendy: Well, I mean, and so that's an interesting conversation that I think should get clarification.
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: There is a recent study that came out
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: that BV is a sexually transmitted disease. Well, so we know that's not entirely true because nuns get bv.
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: is really a mirror of how healthy your own microbiome is.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: so if you are in two thirds of the population, you either never have the right bacteria. Or you're always trying to get back to the right bacteria. Only a third of all women have good, healthy, robust lactobacilli. And we don't know why this is true. We [00:14:00] only know that those community states are true we don't spend money to try to understand women. But so, so if you're in the majority of women, then you most frequently do not have the healthiest bacteria protecting you.
Heather: No.
Wendy: and so then if you use a product, even like pap smear
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: will actually push you to getting bv, which means that you
Heather: What?
Wendy: of
Heather: Oh my God. So you go to the doctor and they're effectively like increasing your BV risk.
Wendy: Yeah.
Heather: I just can't even,
Wendy: women won't do it, actually.
Heather: this is insane. I mean.
Wendy: So
Heather: Yeah. Wow.
Wendy: about women's health. That's insane that I a hundred percent agree with you. And it makes you kind of like a, a woman's health warrior, right?
Heather: For sure.
Wendy: You know, and so, so we're just, we just made, and it's taken me like close to three years, a new product to replace those SGI lube.
That's what most people use to give [00:15:00] you a pap smear.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: And, um, so we should have the evidence all written up in the paper by a doctor at OHSU, by the end of June. And then I'm hoping we'll be able to start selling that into clinics, um, before the end of the year.
Heather: I love that.
Wendy: Fingers crossed. Yeah. Um, that's a huge problem for a lot of women, right?
Because they're
Heather: Yeah.
Wendy: susceptible and then they're being given, I mean, products are used on them that make them push them over the edge. Um, yeah, it's really wrong.
Heather: And we just don't, we don't always connect the dots. We just assume the FDA is protecting us. If this product is for sale and it's widely used in popular, like a lube or a vaginal moisturizer, whatever it is, it must be okay. No, no. That's what we're telling you today.
Wendy: you know, and, and that actually, so only 12% of people use lubricants, right, in terms of
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: penetration, like of the number of households that will buy a lubricant, but that number has [00:16:00] gone down for. A long time because so many people have such bad experiences with the lubricants on the market.
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: a lubricant like you found bio nude, right? Um, then you'll keep buying it, you know,
Heather: Right, right.
Wendy: know, because you can see that the experience with a healthy, good lube really allows you to have more pleasure for a longer time.
Heather: Yes.
Wendy: after. There's a
Heather: Yes.
Wendy: of good reasons to have good lubricant, right at all ages and stages of your life.
Heather: Right.
Wendy: both like post menopause, pre menopause, postpartum, you know, when you're trying to get pregnant. There's so many times in a woman's life when really good lubricant and you know, also, I think there was a lot of shaming that happened in adult
Heather: Oh, so much.
Wendy: And, and this idea that you should be squirting fluid, which like nobody really does that. Um, or that if you're dry, that somehow that's like, means something
Heather: Mm-hmm. Yep.
Wendy: women, women have vaginal [00:17:00] dryness throughout their reproductive lives.
Heather: I've recently, and I, I've had my estrogen tested and it's fine, and I'm not like getting,
Wendy: so many reasons, right? Sometimes
Heather: what I'm learning.
Wendy: taking an antihistamine for a
Heather: I've had that as well. Yep.
Wendy: Sometimes because maybe you're on a, uh, an SSRI or a
Heather: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Wendy: know, there's all kinds of medications that
Heather: Yep.
Wendy: with the lubrication that we create ourselves. Um, sometimes because you're stressed and you're having a one night stand with somebody and you don't know him, and so that doesn't. I mean, on principle it seems like we should feel sexy about that, but it's actually really hard to let your guard down when you like, aren't really sure if you're safe
Heather: Right. Right.
Wendy: will prevent you from lubricating also.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: um, so again, a lot of good reasons to have. Good lubricant and a reliable lubricant And BioNude is my personal favorite
Heather: Okay. Nice.
Wendy: of [00:18:00] lubricants. Um, but we have a, you know, a hybrid. We just came out with a coconut hybrid. Um, we have, you know, our famous Almost Naked, which is aloe based lubricant.
Heather: cool.
Wendy: It doesn't work for everybody, but for a lot of people who really care about organic, that's a good one.
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: Um, but you know, and so all those lubricants, of course, are going to impact your vaginal microbiome because if you don't use that and you use KY or astroglide or all of those that are really hyperosmolar,
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: within four hours, and I can show you histology reports of this, you know, then you're gonna see this shedding.
Of that vaginal epithelium,
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: basically all bets are off, right? And then is that gonna turn into a BV infection if you're
Heather: Right.
Wendy: or you know, it gets even more complicated because the longer you are in that situation, one of the most common symptoms besides dryness is vaginal odor.
Heather: Yeah.[00:19:00]
Wendy: And that I think is one of the biggest fears that women have
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: vaginal odor.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: and whatever we have. Also, this all over body deodorant, odor of fear going on right now.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: so let's just talk about odor for a second.
Heather: Yeah.
Wendy: If people understood odor, um, maybe they would come to it differently.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: you know, body odor, whether it's vaginal body odor or underarm odor or wherever your odor is, right, um, or chafing between your legs.
For some women that's a big problem. All of those places where skin on skin contact happens,
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: you know, can create odors. So of course, you know, your hygiene method is really important about how frequently and what kinds of products you use when you bathe.
Heather: Many women
Wendy: um, will use products both vaginally and all over their body that are also toxic soaps.
Heather: Yes.
Wendy: not just lubricants, it's also [00:20:00] washes, which
Heather: Yeah.
Wendy: so many doctors are against any wash. But let me just say that all washes are not created equal. And so when you're buying, say Summer's Eve, which is a really popular vaginal wash, then you're buying a hyperosmolar. Extremely harsh soap quality, saponifier
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: with really horrible fragrances, also
Heather: toxic Right.
Wendy: on top of it, so it might cover up your odor for a minute, but it's only making the root of the odor worse
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: because it's doing the same thing on the outside that you would do on the inside with KY or a product like
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: Right, because you do that also to the labial tissue, right? The outside of the vagina is also a microbiome.
Heather: Yeah.
Wendy: you wanna do is you wanna give it, the same kind of care that you would give the inside, right? So, um, you said you wanna talk [00:21:00] about Biom match, so this might be a good
Heather: Yeah.
Wendy: to, tell you why Bio match is so cool. So bio match is this method of making products that I learned with that biophysicist actually.
Heather: Oh, cool.
Wendy: And I met that biophysicist because our products got included in a $50 million NIH study.
Heather: Oh,
Wendy: this was a miracle that God gave me. And we were the safest product in the study,
Heather: does not surprise me.
Wendy: we were iso asthmatic.
Heather: Yeah.
Wendy: I learned about iso asthmatic, honestly, when that study came out and I was like, was this good? Is it bad? I didn't even know. Right? and then the guy, I'll teach you a few things.
Heather: Yeah.
Wendy: so, so that's when I learned about how important it is to not disrupt. Microbiome
Heather: Hmm.
Wendy: and that the proper pH, which is the pH, that allows good bacteria to thrive is as low [00:22:00] as 3.7 in your vagina and 4.0 on the outside.
That's only second your gut microbiome.
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: So
Heather: It's very acidic, basically.
Wendy: It's super acidic.
Heather: Yeah.
Wendy: when, that's when good healthy lactobacilli can hang out there.
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: most products, even boric acid, which everybody thinks is the great secret, that
Heather: That's what I've been using. Help me, Wendy.
Wendy: uh, um, boric acid is up at 5.5.
Heather: Is it really?
Wendy: too high. Yeah, that's too high.
Also.
Heather: wow.
Wendy: Uric acid is actually a detergent, and so it disrupts the biofilm.
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: the lining of the vagina, so that, that, that's a different way of killing everything than, than taking an antibiotic.
Heather: Okay. Okay.
Wendy: a little better than antibiotic,
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: like a daily treatment, right? Because what you're doing there again, is you're killing [00:23:00] everything. You're not doing anything to bring good bacteria back
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: you're putting your pH up at 5.5.
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: you know, not only are most of the products on the shelf iso hyperosmolar,
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: also at a stupidly high pH.
Heather: Oh, yes. It's ridiculous.
Wendy: Yeah, so, so, so you don't wanna be at a high pH because that's where the bacteria party happens.
Heather: You
wanna
Wendy: be doing things to make it a low pH consistently,
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: many, many symptoms go away and all the bad bacteria dies 'cause they can't live in that low pH.
Heather: Okay, so what's the key to getting to a low pH?
Wendy: So, okay, so first, don't screw it up ISO as. The first thing is do not disrupt.
Heather: Okay. Okay.
Wendy: if you're not, if you're not disrupting, then you're using an ISO asthmatic product like bio nude or any product that good, clean love makes. Honestly, everything we make is within this frame,
Heather: [00:24:00] Okay.
Wendy: okay? The second thing is that the product should then be set to bring your pH to 3.7
Heather: Mm-hmm. Okay.
Wendy: So everything that we make between 3.7 and 4.4.
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: Um, so that's really important. But again, you can't say that you're doing that and then be hyperosmolar. You can only do
Heather: Right.
Wendy: you are not hyperosmolar.
Heather: Got it.
Wendy: one, step two, and then the third step, which is really important, this is kind of the magic secret sauce, is that we provide the racemic blend of lactic acid that many women can't produce themselves.
We don't know why this is true. We only know it's true. So that really healthy bacteria can have the food they need to thrive.
Heather: So you said it's called racemic acid. I've never even heard of this one.
Wendy: It's racemic Oh, lactic acid.
so that [00:25:00] means that it has both d and l lactate in it, and so the body produces L lactate. Everybody thinks that's the bacteria fighting one,
Heather: Hmm.
Wendy: we're human and mysterious, what we have learned is that you need both d and l
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: bacteria.
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: you don't have the kind of, uh, bacteria, healthy lactobacilli like crispatus, that produces that kind.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: many, many women, again, we, we know this is true among, um, women of multi race, whether African American, Mexican, Asian. We don't know why. It's true. We
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: they tend to produce a kind of lactobacilli called lactobacilli iners
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: iners for reasons we don't understand has a truncated form, so it's not producing the D.
Heather: Hmm.[00:26:00]
Wendy: So because we're giving women the D and the L. Good, healthy bacteria can live there. And so the last part of our protocol is that we give women the healthiest native bacteria, and so long as they're using it with the gel and the wash, we set up this biomimicry where their body is actually doing it because the products are supporting them to do it.
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: it naturally, they can. They can mimic how it naturally would happen,
Heather: Wow.
Wendy: that's, that's the. So this is why I cannot be a scientist and do science, because it's not that scientific, actually, it's
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: of scientific,
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: you, I was always a homeopathic, uh, student, for my children.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: in homeopathy is that we use, whether you believe in it or not, the science is that we are just looking for similars,
Heather: Hmm.
Wendy: the body gives signs with symptoms for things that it's missing.[00:27:00]
Heather: Yep.
Wendy: And then if you give it to the body in really small amounts, then the body can respond. This is how we give shots, right?
We give somebody a shot, an immunization, we give them a tiny bit of COVID, and then the body's supposed to kind of produce its own response to COVID. Right? Doesn't
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: for everybody. Some people get the shot and they get very, very sick. Right?
Heather: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Wendy: biomimicry.
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: we're just trying to create an environment or to help women create a natural, stable microbiome environment. And
Heather: Right.
Wendy: point of bio match.
Heather: It's amazing. I mean, and, and so much of what you're saying, because it's like when you go to your doctor and you're like, I have bv, or I have whatever, they're like, great, here's an antibiotic. And all that does is further [00:28:00] disrupt your microbiome in the long run so that you're gonna have these issues chronically, which is also what happened to me.
So what I.
Wendy: because actually the recurrence rate
Heather: Yeah.
Wendy: get an antibiotic, okay, first of all, two outta three times, it's not diagnosed correctly
Heather: Oh my God.
Wendy: actually collect data. And so, so I know it's crazy that it's two outta three times, but it actually is so, because actually a lot of these bacteria end up showing up and looking the same, right?
Like you still have this kind of odor,
Heather: Yeah.
Wendy: frequently. Frequently, many bacteria from the gut. Things that we wouldn't think would be in the vagina. Things like enterococcus strep
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: plasma, just to name a couple, um, show up in the vaginal microbiome. They're actually very virulent. And e coli
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: among them. But if doctors aren't testing for those,
Heather: Yep. Yep.
Wendy: then [00:29:00] you can be getting metrogel all day long or even the oral form
Heather: Yeah.
Wendy: it's, it's not gonna touch it, you know? So, so that's why we develop the microbiota panel,
Heather: Yeah.
Wendy: the only tests that are available currently in the market. When you go to the doctor, they might swab you,
Heather: Right.
Wendy: a sure swab, but all that's giving them is a view of sick bacteria, which they're looking for and expecting to see.
Like Gardnerella, Prevotella, the things that they think are the likely suspect.
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: doesn't tell them anything about all these other bacteria, both good or bad, or anything about the fungi. our test that we just developed shows 54 targets,
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: same way measurable, but we give them actual counts. And so what we did is we
Heather: Wow.
Wendy: that we knew doctors would read
Heather: Yep.
Wendy: to make an intelligent diagnosis with.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: so it [00:30:00] seems pretty straightforward. Like I can't believe I'm the one doing that, but
Heather: I think that's what's wild to me as I'm getting to know you, I'm just like, okay, so it's not a scientist, it's not a doctor. It's just a lady who had some issues who was like, I'm gonna fricking solve this sh*t because someone has to.
Wendy: I know it's like, really? You wouldn't think it would be me, honestly. Um.
Heather: I love that it's you.
Wendy: Um, you know, I, I think like if you really, so I had a lot of these problems, right? I'm in that space where I would have frequent re infections,
Heather: Yes.
Wendy: And then I would have the complication of all the babies, which is like another whole thing,
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: um, so, so, you know, when I was making products, if I couldn't use them, then I wouldn't sell them. Even if
Heather: Yep.
Wendy: of other people could use them,
Heather: Right?
Wendy: still wouldn't sell it. If, if somebody is sensitive as me, couldn't use it, then
Heather: Yep. Yep.
Wendy: so, um, you know, and then, you know, as you get going and people realize that you're really not [00:31:00] just in it because you're just trying to make a brand and sell it,
Heather: Right. Mm-hmm.
Wendy: why we started vaginal biome science truthfully.
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: Partly because all that work we were doing in the brand, in good, clean love, you know, the, the FDA doesn't like that when you're solving scientific problems in a brand. Um,
Heather: Heaven forbid.
Wendy: I know right, because like the only use case the FDA will give me to make products with this is gonna really sort of burn your pants, is the only use case that you can have to make a product right now is for the ease of penile insertion. Period, end of story.
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: So even if I'm making a vaginal gel, which I know is gonna support somebody's vaginal microbiome health,
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: that's still the only use case I have.
She's never gonna use that product for ease of penile I mean, she could,
Heather: Yeah.
Wendy: [00:32:00] that's not why she buys it, you know?
Heather: Right, right.
Wendy: or any other vaginal gel on market.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: But we all are limited to that one use case. So, um, so, so the, so the idea that women have a microbiome and that everything that's happening to them, vaginally is not a disease. That needs an antibiotic or steroid prescription. Like that is the big bridge that I'm
Heather: Yep.
Wendy: to build. Stick by stick. I don't know how far I'll get, but, but you know, honestly, that's what made me start womankind care
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: because. It was actually during COVID when I was like talking to a lot of the doctors that we work with, and we have this really amazing network of 20,000 doctors that distribute
Heather: Oh, wow.
Wendy: samples. So two in five of our customers comes to us from a healthcare provider. Whether pelvic floor therapist or, you know, it's not all obs.
Um, you know, sometimes U [00:33:00] GYNs,
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: sometimes oncologists, right? Like all
Heather: Yeah.
Wendy: per give our samples away. um, and you know, those customers like, you know, they feel better. I mean, they, they're, they're,
Heather: Yeah.
Wendy: and then they're so grateful,
Heather: Imagine. Yeah.
Wendy: um. So that, so that keeps me going, right?
Like even recently I got a call from somebody at Novartis
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: um, you know, Novartis is a huge drug manufacturer that treats, uh, that works in cancer care. And so this woman who's high up in that system on solid breast cancer,
Heather: Hmm.
Wendy: so she's trying to develop drugs to help women who have breast cancers, different kinds of breast
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: She, she anecdotally ends up getting sick at home here and goes to her doctor, and her doctor gives a good, clean love, you know, says, try this, this should really help you.
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: so it does help her, and she reads the website [00:34:00] and then she says, why are we not doing this for these patients? That the number one reason these patients drop out of this trial is because of their vaginal symptoms.
Heather: Yep. I could see that sexual side effects and they, they might not even name it 'cause there's so much shame and stigma.
Wendy: doctors, they'll only tell the female doctors. And so, um, so we're trying to get a study going where we can see if the patients will stay in the trial if we help them with their vaginal symptoms.
Heather: Yeah.
Wendy: I, I just wanna say that we, we don't talk about vaginal healthcare even though it drives two to three in five visits to the doctor. Um, so it's a substantial thing. It costs 20.
Heather: You're talking about just general doctors?
Wendy: I'm talking family practice and obs.
Heather: Really? So it's like about half.
Wendy: Yeah.
Heather: Wow.
Wendy: And so like, you know, many women, like what you were saying, can [00:35:00] have vaginal issues for a a decade. You know,
Heather: Yeah. Well, because there's no solution. I mean, as someone myself, like I, I did a holistic health certification. I'm also into all the like, natural things. I obsessively research and I kind of was like, okay, boric acid and I gotta cut down on sugar. And that's kind of the best I can do. But, um, it's just because there hasn't been as much information.
Wendy: match every day. From now on, I'll.
Heather: Well, I.
Wendy: You'll, you'll be, you'll be better actually once you start using it because it's just the same way, like if you've ever heard of Neutrophil that does this hair care, grow your hair again,
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: That's a microbiome centric hair solution. I. And, and so, you know, but if you stop taking it, then your hair will fall out again.
Right.
Heather: Yeah.
Wendy: it's the same thing, right? Like, so long as you are maintaining your health, the way you maintain your facials, you know, care or any other part of your body, you know, you can [00:36:00] stay well,
Heather: Right.
Wendy: with the products that we've developed, I, I'm really proud of that. And, uh, and I, and I know because I, I hear this so. So womankind care, as I was saying,
Heather: Oh yeah.
Wendy: because, um, because I know so many women can't get the care they need.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: know, either because doctors don't believe them or they can't
Heather: Yep, yep.
Wendy: or for many, many reasons,
Heather: Yep.
Wendy: so we're gonna be like a one stop shop where you can talk to a doctor. But even on the, the prescription side, on the RX side, we're gonna be making the prescriptions in the base that we made that's high.
Heather: Oh, that's amazing.
Wendy: so
Heather: love that.
Wendy: also will support your microbiome.
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: you'll only be able to get at Womankind Care.
Heather: This is amazing. I'm very excited for everything you're doing. Um.
Wendy: pretty, I'm pretty excited about that too. I think a lot of women will really feel better for a long time.[00:37:00]
Heather: It's, it's a huge deal, you know, I mean, like you said about your sex life, I know for me sometimes it's like, oh, I have bv. Maybe we should not do anything. And, you know, it can create issues. Or it could be like, oh, every time I have sex with my person, I am getting a UTI, and so like, I'm just like avoiding it, right?
It's like it actually affects our connections, how we feel about ourselves, like so many things.
Wendy: Well, that's what I was gonna tell you is that, um, and there's women who like, like Pish posh this, but there's literally like studies that show that vaginal issues creates a $40 billion productivity loss. So what does that mean? that
you're not going to work, that you're not having sex, that you're
Heather: Wow.
Wendy: like able to show up as a mother the way you wanna be?
I mean, I just had a yeast, a really bad yeast infection. 'cause I got norovirus. I usually am pretty steady.
Heather: Yeah.
Wendy: I got norovirus. It completely screwed up everything.
Heather: Yep,
Wendy: I have to say for a. All I was was a yeast infection[00:38:00]
Heather: yep,
Wendy: it out.
Heather: yep.
Wendy: it's not like I could really focus on doing all the other things that I wanna do.
And yes, sex is like off the table,
Heather: Right, right.
Wendy: and so, um, and I'm just crabby, right, because you're just
Heather: Yeah.
Wendy: All the time,
Heather: Right.
Wendy: so, so I think that, you know, vaginal health concerns are not taken seriously. You know, most doctors, although we have a group of 20,000 doctors, and when you join Womankind Care, you'll get access to those doctors that actually understand the vaginal microbiome.
Heather: Very cool.
Wendy: do wanna say that that group is growing. thankfully the consciousness about that is growing.
Heather: Yep.
Wendy: Um, and, um, but many, many women are live in places where, you know, a doctor would just laugh at them when, when she says that to
Heather: Well, and I've had, I recommend to clients even like, oh, ask your gynecologist to do a hormone panel. And they're kind of like, unless there's some kind of glaring health issue that oftentimes they say no, [00:39:00] and I'm like, why did the patient not have the right to have information about their body if they're willing to pay for it?
You know, like.
Wendy: No, I know. It's really, I mean, do you, if you wanna go endocrinology, I could talk all day long about how,
Heather: We might have to do a separate episode about that.
Wendy: that should be criminal, honestly.
Heather: I know.
Wendy: just discussing the fact that estrogen. Is something that you can easily prescribe.
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: testosterone, which there are reams of papers about the importance of testosterone for a woman at all phases of her reproductive life that you, that is a controlled substance and there's no clear treatment for women with testosterone, although there's 29 for men. Um,
Heather: That's crazy.
Wendy: Um, you know, yeah. You know, you would almost think that they don't want us to be strong,
Heather: Hmm. Right,
Wendy: you know, estrogen, progesterone are really important hormones and
Heather: for sure.
Wendy: kinds of really important things.
Heather: Right,
Wendy: it's not [00:40:00] balanced with testosterone,
Heather: right.
Wendy: many women, not only when they're menopausal, but throughout their reproductive cycle, really, really lose a lot of testosterone.
Heather: Hmm.
Wendy: and that makes us less, let me just say that I, for myself. When I finally learned about this, it was like night and day how I felt. I was like, I was finally like kind of myself again
Heather: Yeah.
Wendy: able to get some testosterone. So I'm a big believer in hormonal therapy.
Heather: Yes, absolutely.
Wendy: I, feel like I'd be dead if I didn't do that.
Heather: Gosh, glad you too.
Wendy: a lot of women did die, right? Like before we knew about this,
Heather: Yeah.
Wendy: and most and most mammals die after their reproductive years.
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: whales. Humans and one other species orangutans
Heather: Oh.
Wendy: live on to be grandmothers, right? Like, but, but for most of the world, the [00:41:00] earth population, you know, and it makes sense, right?
Like we live, we have our reproductive years and then,
Heather: Mm-hmm.
Wendy: and then we make room for other, other. The next generation.
Heather: Yeah.
Wendy: but, but like, we're only really learning about this ne this last third of our life, um, now, where, you know, we're living without hormones and, you know, and I, I don't know, you know, that's a pretty hard way to live.
I, I can't do it
Heather: It's, yes, it seems like it. I would not recommend it either. Um, so if people are curious about all these things you mentioned, which all sound amazing by the way. Um, like if they wanna get the microbiota panel or find your products, like how, how can they find the products and how can they connect with your companies?
Wendy: So, um, good, clean love is, you know, a great place. We have a huge blog section. I've written many of those blogs myself,
Heather: Oh, cool.
Wendy: tons of education. Um, vaginal biome science.com
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: can really see a [00:42:00] little bit more of the research we're doing, um, and, and learn more about that. And, um, womankind care coming soon.
It's not out in the. Biosphere yet, but hopefully by the end of the year with any
Heather: Cool.
Wendy: also I do all that TikTok crazy stuff and, um, and, and Instagram and I'm always teaching about vaginal health, right. Uh,
Heather: it.
Wendy: Stgar So, so you can find me, Wendy Stgr in any of those places or on those other business channels. So yeah, I would love it. And you know, we have a coupon for your listeners. Um, and so if they use that coupon, they can come in and get 20% off.
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: and I, you know, I don't know exactly, probably it's gonna be sex therapist 20
Heather: Okay.
Wendy: of something. Well, I'll, I'll, I'll make
Heather: We'll put it in the show notes. Yeah. By the time the episode comes out, uh, I think your assistant might have sent it over already actually, so We'll, yeah, we'll put it in the show notes. Um, so yeah, you guys can all access that.[00:43:00]
Wendy: to just like really feel what it feels like to have a good microbiome.
Heather: Yes. Yes. And how, like, how long does it take? So like, when would people expect to start seeing improvements with their micro bad?
Wendy: well, it depends how long have you been sick, right?
Heather: Oh, good point.
Wendy: you've had an issue for a really long time,
Heather: Yeah.
Wendy: There's just in general, right? We have to unwind.
Heather: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Wendy: you know, and so on the womankind care site, we say between one to three months, right? Like you
Heather: Oh, that's very reasonable. Okay. Yeah.
Wendy: by three months, if you're really consistent, you know, you're gonna feel like a new woman by then, you know? Um, but then if you. I'm gonna send you some, if you, if you stop, if you stop using it,
Heather: Yeah.
Wendy: you'll, you know, right. Like, if you're so, so it's not like a forever fix, I
Heather: Yeah, yeah.
Wendy: Like, but it is a system that you can get out of the, the cycle of illness that
Heather: Mm-hmm. I love it. [00:44:00] Thank you so much for being here, Wendy. This was an awesome episode. I'm so glad to finally address this. I've been wanting to address vaginal microbiome health for a while, and I think you were the perfect person, so thank you.
Wendy: I'm really grateful to be here and sometime let's do a show just about sex. 'cause
Heather: Alright.
Wendy: know, you know, you're ask a sex therapist
Heather: That's true.
Wendy: and, and, uh, and I did, I have a couple books about sex that works and love that works.
Heather: Oh, that'd be fun.
Wendy: I have some great tips.
Heather: Alright, well thank you Wendy for being here. Thank you everybody for listening, and we'll catch you next week on Ask a Sex Therapist.