Sam hello to my fellow Maya Games spectators who are also Maya Games players.

Welcome back to this collaborative series on the cosmic context of 2026.

Today I've got a conversation with my friend Jessa Reid on Neptune in Aries.

Neptune in Aries, to me, I've started to feel into it and talk about it like it's the dream of freedom and autonomy.

And it's a dre that, as typically is the case with Neptune, will sort of infect and entrance the collective and spread far and wide.

But with Neptune in Aries, I see this dream originating within the individual, originating within and requiring a constant moment to moment, spontaneous anchoring and re anchoring to the most localized, singular source of the individuated self.

So this isn't about getting swept up in the dream of some reimagined new beginnings that kind of takes over the collective.

It's about getting swept up in the truth of your own presence, the truth of your own experience, your own inherent non negotiable freedom, moment to moment.

And I sort of see collective imagined new beginnings growing from this place, but growing from the seed of one person, many one persons, holding the frequency of their authenticity, acting as a tuning fork for the dream of individuated wholeness to move through their system and disperse within and around them.

It's an interesting thing to take Neptune, this planet that describes the big unfolding zeitgeist in the collective, and to put it into the sign of Aries, which focuses so singularly in any individual moment.

Neptune takes a long time.

Aries exists only in the now.

Neptune entrances the collective mind, Aries filters it through the individuated, the separate mind.

And yeah, I'm being influenced as well.

As you all have noticed.

If you've listened to any of these convos in this series or listened to me at all, anytime in the last few years by my study of the global cycles and the cross that we're moving into.

The combination of the cross of the sleeping Phoenix and the cross of penetration is so much about the evolution of collective consciousness happening through humanity, but happening first and foremost on the individual level, and then spreading throughout the collective through the many ones that the collective is made up of.

And yeah, I'm excited to share this conversation about Neptune in Aries, in part for sure, because some of the content of the convo, the topics that come up are interesting, but also I feel this dissemination of truth, this dissemination of awareness, this dream of freedom and autonomy, I feel it happening in this Neptunian and Aries way whenever I tune into Jessa, I feel myself relax into honesty with myself and with her because she's so practiced in and disciplined in being honest with herself.

And I know both from being friends with Jessa as well as from my own experience being someone who has a high like internal sense of responsibility for being honest with myself and being authentic in my self honesty and in my expression of that outwards.

I know that it's not easy.

As Jonathan brought brought up in the last conversation.

Authenticity is exhausting.

And I really have gotten to see and in many ways look up to the way that Jessa is so committed to self honesty and to authenticity.

And yeah, I feel the impact of that.

I feel so relaxed when I'm with Jessa, whether we're on a microphone or not.

I feel this like deep allowance to be myself.

And I hear about and I witness myself the impact of a similar anchoring to self that happens when people experience me and my flow similar in a way, I imagine to what I feel when I'm in the presence of Jessa or when I'm listening to Jessa, when I'm tapped into her authentic expression.

Expression.

I think there's something, maybe this is a Neptune in Aries thing that didn't get mentioned in the convo.

It's coming up for me now.

But I think there's something like, oh, this came up with Jonathan in the last conversation.

But I think there's something that gets kind of like glamorized about the idea of authentic expression.

And yeah, it is actually exhausting.

It's actually a lot of work.

When one is committed to anchoring to self and expressing from that authentic place, there is absolutely no guarantee, guarantee that others will receive it in authenticity, will receive it with their own sense of self responsibility.

And when you're someone who's putting your voice and your authentic expression out there in many ways as a service.

Right.

I mean, everything we do, I think we ultimately do for ourselves, which is more on that to come in the conversation next on Pluto in Aquarius with John and probably the Leo Aquarius nodes convo to come.

I'm not trying to deny that anything we do, we do first and foremost for ourselves.

I think that's maybe one of the things that will become unveiled in the Neptune in Aries era.

But it also has a lot of impact when someone shares their voice, shares their authenticity generously, far and wide.

And one of the things that comes of that is this dissemination of truth and individuality and autonomy and self sovereignty that people can anchor to they are attuning to someone who for themself is anchoring to that.

But there's also, you know, it's also a vulnerable thing to do.

There's also going to be minds that grab what is being shared and do not have the capacity, the resource, to meet it honestly and humbly as themselves and therefore will project and externalize their own shame and self rejection onto the person whose voice they're taking in.

Authenticity scares people.

It threatens people.

Authenticity is how we fight fascism.

We don't fight fascism with fascism, we fight fascism with authenticity.

And yeah, so I wonder about sort of the glamorization that happens about authentic expression, like the over romanticization of it.

And yeah, I think in this moment I'm just feeling compelled to share that.

I think that's part of what the Neptune and Aries spell will both amplify and potentially for some of us reveal.

But that's a side quest point.

I think what I felt compelled to share more intentionally is that, yeah, like I said, I just feel extremely relaxed in the presence of Jessa, whether we're on the mic or not.

And it's because I trust Jessa so much not to abandon herself and because I know Jessa won't abandon herself, I don't fear her making me responsible for her experience.

And it's from this place of radical self anchoring, self responsibility, self honesty that I get to experience the realest and most powerful form of collaboration, A kind of collaboration where I and we can benefit from synergy, the synergy of combined awareness and connectivity without having to sacrifice the fullness of my own separate truth, my own subjective experience.

So yeah, I'm just so grateful to have the combination of friend and role model that I have in Jessa.

And I'm always really excited to share the gift of our self attunement collaboration that we have with each other, with others.

When we put our voices out together.

We cover a lot of ground in this conversation and our focus kind of shifts in and out of Neptune specifically.

And I think primarily what I feel really excited about in sharing this conversation is that it feels to me exactly like the thing that Neptune in Aries is and like the thing I've described so far.

21 persons anchoring to their authenticity, providing the spaciousness and the resource and the relational capacity for the other person to remain anchored in their own authentic expression, in their own honesty, in their own sovereignty.

And through this type of collaboration, this type of synergy, there's a dissemination of authenticity, freedom, power and truth that anyone else tuning in as a self anchored receiver is able to access and disseminate through their own beingness and frequency and expression themselves.

If you like the Jessa Kelsey vibe and if it does help you to vibe more honestly and freely with yourself and your own knowing and you haven't yet if you want more of it and you haven't yet there's two classes that Jessa and I taught together in 2025 in our authority that we talk about a little bit in the episode focusing on the authority component of the human design system, a really basic and practical component of that system through the lens of kind of this Neptune in Aries stuff.

Self sovereignty specific not only to relational codependency versus interdependence, but also collective codependency versus independence.

Looking at our codependency with the state, the government and with external reality in general.

And prior to teaching in our authority we also taught 2027 the breakdown and yeah, you can tell in the convo that Jessa and I are we are always talking about the Global south cycle key changes.

They're hugely informing how we think about the astrology and how we see the astrology and how we talk about the astrology.

And yeah, that course is really comprehensive and has a lot more of us just like relaxing and riffing together as well as a lot of like.

Yeah, both courses have a ton of actual resource and lecture and material and information as well, but are offered in a way that invites this deep self attunement through the process of us modeling ourselves authenticity.

Anyways, we just lowered the price for both of those down to 85 per class.

So go get in on this Neptune in Aries dream of autonomy with us through one or both of those courses.

Links in the show notes both accessible from both of our websites.

Before I send you off into the convo I actually gonna do something a little weird.

Maybe I wanna read a post about Neptune in Aries that some genius individual shared to an astrology subreddit in the hours before Neptune left Pisces.

I was so moved by these words when I read them.

I had a whole transcendent experience taking in this writing and then talking about it a little bit with some of the folks in my orbit field Discord and then listening to this song by the Smile with Thom York of Radiohead called Free in the Knowledge.

Yeah I just had this beautiful morning, this beautiful accidental ritual, the morning that Neptune moved from Pisces to Aries that I think has really influenced how I'm feeling into this Neptune in Aries transit now and how I speak of it in this conversation with Jessa, so I want to read it.

The following are the words of Reddit user Redsurred sur and I'll link to their post in the show notes as well Neptune in Aries and the Reanimation of Power before states hardened into structures and before light came from screens, power did not reside in buildings or offices.

It lived in the space between people, moving when one noticed another, when a body acted and another answered.

Neptune's entrance into Aries feels like a remembering of that older arrangement.

Neptune loosens what has been named too tightly.

It erodes ownership, certainty, and the belief that anything essential can be fully contained.

Aries does not wait for the erosion to finish.

Aries moves while the ground is still shifting together.

They do not draft plans or issue instructions.

They spark, they kindle, they initiate.

Where there has only been stillness.

When power is hoarded and suffering spreads wide, numbness becomes a survival strategy.

People grow careful.

They wait to be told what is allowed.

They look upward for leadership, for permission, for relief, and find only immobility.

Neptune in Aries breaks the spell by acting without explanation.

Someone steps forward without a mandate.

Others feel something stir in their own bodies and recognize themselves in the gesture.

The action travels.

It is repeated, altered, carried elsewhere.

No single person can claim it, and no one should.

Its unknowability is its strength.

Leadership gathers as ignition, and it spreads without hierarchy.

Most of this will not announce itself as power at all.

It will register first as restlessness, as recognition, as the sudden and unmistakable sense that your body is already in motion.

Power does not settle into a center.

It moves like heat through a system, passing hand to hand, body to body, courage to courage.

Risk shifts towards those willing to hold it for a moment and then pass it on.

Action stops asking whether it has been authorized and begins asking whether it is alive.

This transit points away from obsession with who is in charge and towards attentiveness to where movement is already happening.

Watch where refusal is practiced quietly.

Watch where care becomes mutual.

Watch where courage spreads without slogans.

Neptune in Aries offers no promise of clarity, victory, or clean outcomes.

What it offers instead is circulation and circulation of blood, of breath, of courage is how living systems regenerate.

Welcome back to the Maya Games.

Welcome Jessa Hello.

Welcome Neptune to Aries.

The the the Maya game has changed.

The game has shifted.

We're officially on the other side of Neptune's final egress.

Thank the Lord.

Well, I feel like thank the Lord.

I have my sun and moon in Pisces.

I don't know how it feels for an Aries.

Yeah.

Perhaps this call is the official handoff from your hosting Neptune to mine.

Yeah, so I have mercury at 2.

It's like right at.

I think it's like at 2 0.

Let me look at my chart because I always forget if it's at one or two.

Yeah, two degrees, one minute.

Aries.

And then I have Venus at six and my sun at eight.

And I've been.

Yeah, really, I've been really nervous.

I'm not nervous right now, thank God.

Let me see if I can hold on to the lack of nerves.

But this is the fourth convo in this series and the first three I was like very nervous, especially at the start of them, which is really out of the norm for me lately.

Like I've really been in a long stretch of feeling super relaxed, recording anything and being really at peace with feeling vulnerable and not feeling like I need to perform anything.

And that has just not been the case in this series, which surprised me.

And it wasn't until very recently, like the last maybe 24 hours that I started to think, oh, is this like a Neptune on my Mercury trans initiation that I'm happening where.

Because I feel like I've been through such a long period, you know, you.

And probably everyone listening has.

Or maybe not everyone listening, but most people listening have observed me in this long process of really deconditioning my mind and really having less and less dependence on my mind to get me through anything.

And I think that's why I've felt really at ease on like recording and teaching and being perceived lately.

Because I'm like feel a detachment from whatever's happening in my mind.

And I feel really in the flow.

But then there has been this big shift recently where, I don't know, I think part of what I'm wondering is, is this, maybe the Neptune approaching my Mercury initiation is like all this prep I've been doing to get in a different relationship with my mind is because I'm not going to have access to mind in a way that I've been used to.

So I'm gonna have to get increasingly comfortable with essentially feeling like I've lost my mind.

And that's what it feels like.

It feels like my mind that was once really.

I really did trust it.

Like south node in Virgo, north node in Pisces.

It's fragile.

Yep.

Yeah.

No, I find that.

I mean, I think my Mars and Mercury are conjunct or damn near there.

And the toughest.

Transits I've experienced have Been granted through my sixth house, but have been transits of that Mars and Mercury.

And when Saturn trans.

I need to look into when Neptune was transiting.

I just looked into it.

Do you wanna know?

Yeah.

It was 2003 and 2004 is when you had Neptune on your Mercury, which just said Virgo rising.

So Mercury's your chart ruler.

So it makes sense, you know, that, like, transits to that conjunction feel particularly significant.

Yeah.

So I was on drugs.

Yeah.

Okay.

That makes sense.

I didn't.

Yeah, I was pretty outta my mind.

Yeah.

Wins.

Hi, Mar.

Thank you.

Oh, he came back.

I was excited to see him.

Kelsey said.

Kelsey said hi.

She was excited to say hi, but I have headphones on, so she didn't see.

Hi, Kelsey.

Well, I like your background.

Oh, thank you.

I made it.

I can't hear you, but I.

You said, oh, thank you.

I made it again.

I imagine.

All right.

Yeah.

Case in point.

Kelsey's mind has left the room or is on, like, other dimensional drugs, perhaps.

Yeah.

So that's interesting because I definitely was out of my mind.

But when Mars.

When Saturn.

As soon as we start talking about brain fog, I get brain fog.

When Saturn transited my Mars and Mercury, I got Lyme disease and I had neurological Lyme disease.

And it was.

I didn't even know what brain fog was before then.

It was.

It was debilitating brain fog.

And I feel like one of the best things that ever happened to me because I learned to not identify with my hyper identify with my mind, but because I had no choice.

You know what I mean?

It was extremely difficult, painful transit.

So now we're gonna see what it looks like as Pluto drives back and forth over it for a while.

No breaks for Jessa.

I have a lot of stuff in the sixth, seventh, and eighth house, so this has just been.

It's been a lot.

What house is Aries in for you?

My fifth.

Okay.

Yeah.

And the Saturn Neptune conjunction happens at just shy of one degree.

So that's happening right on my Mercury.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I feel prepared for it insofar as I always just trust that everything is always preparing me for what's next.

And I have sort of an astrological.

I have access to mentally comprehendable context for both what's happening and how I've been prepared for it using astrology.

So I'm grateful for that.

But, yeah, I kind of feel like.

I mean, I think this is also just my nodal journey as well.

South node in Virgo, north node in Pisces.

I have become very comfortable relaxing into the flow and not being mind led.

And I am still really used to that mentally comprehendable crutch of being able to explain what's happening.

And I think maybe this is a way of describing where I'm at.

I was talking about this with Budway just yesterday and he relates to this so much just his whole life.

He's a south node conjunct the sun in cancer in the 12th house.

And see like a past version of me would have tried to translate what I mean by that which this is me demonstrating it like up to this point I identify as.

And I've.

I don't know if I would go as strong as to say am known as.

But like I think a lot of what my work has relied on with folks and in teaching has been my ability to mentally translate from vibe to language.

Yeah.

And I feel that escaping me.

I feel less and less able to do that.

And I still feel I can still do the translation in my head.

Like I'm still benefiting from having the mental framework for myself.

Right.

But I'm having a harder and harder time putting it into words.

So I'm like less and less able to do.

There's cross the planning fading stuff here too.

Right.

I'm less and less capable of performing my skills which I have the 16 in my design of performing the skill of my mastery of these languages for trade and more and more it's just like that information.

This is so cross of planning leaving and like first line era going into six line era.

That information is like it's in my system and it's supporting me but it's not.

It's not available to me as much on the surface to be in this exchange and this mental exchange with folks.

So I think maybe what's coming in and this is mental for sure based a lot on 2027 stuff that we've gone deep on together.

But I think perhaps what's happening is like my.

My body is like so deep in the assimilation of these languages and this mental understanding that the next like phase of my work which using quotes around that because I think even what work is is changing so much as humanity understands it.

40 to 59.

Right.

Like it's now about me allowing that knowledge to just be in my system and to help me to hold the frequency to attune to my own subjective truth in every moment and trust that the dissemination of whatever needs to be disseminated whether it's knowledge or truth or frequency, whatever will happen just through existing and through attuning.

So it's like my relationship, the purpose that my mind, the function of my mind in this work is changing.

That makes sense to me.

So I will pause, I will stop there and not try to explain it.

Yeah, I mean, I do think a lot of this is that transition from cross of planning into cross of sleeping Phoenix.

And even for those who don't have it is also funny.

You and I, whenever we start talking about Neptune, we kind of invoke Neptune.

And so then it gets harder to speak clearly with.

With walls.

I think that the 2026 is the year.

I think that this is the year where these outer planets shifting are the tone setting of what will come after 2027.

And I think that the shift in 2027 will actually feel more subtle than the shift this year that actually 2025, 2026.

And I feel like in.

By the end of 2027, we'll.

I don't know, we'll have some.

I noticed in 2013, I felt like I could see clearly when I looked back at 2012 that we had shifted, even though I didn't have the context of realizing that was Neptune fully landing in Pisces.

Right.

That makes sense.

But this is the beginning of the beginning, I want to say, of the new energy, where I feel like mostly all we've been feeling is the death of the old energy.

I feel like we are so far into the death of the old energy, this is where we really start to see the birth of the cross of sleeping Phoenix.

And as someone who is experiencing, like, losing words, like crazy, I listen to myself back when I go to edit podcasts and I am transposing words.

I am, you know, and I've always been a little adhd, whatever, and perimenopause.

But if.

If it wasn't happening to everyone else, I would think I had dementia.

Like, I would literally.

I didn't know it was happening to everyone else.

So thank you.

Thank you for that context.

Cause I've definitely been in a little bit of a spiral around and.

And, you know, brain.

To talk about brain fog and not knowing what it is until a certain point.

Definitely the version of that that I experienced postpartum, like, in the first couple months that I was coming back to work, and I just, like, I couldn't find words.

I don't even think where I'm at right now is quite that.

Yeah, it's.

Yeah.

I'm so caught up in my own experience with it right now that I hadn't even had a chance to really notice if other people are feeling that way too.

So that makes me feel a little better.

Yeah.

I've been complaining about not being able to find words for what.

When did it shift?

Because then I'm also like, well I'm grieving.

And so maybe that's increased it.

But there was something planetary that shifted.

And when it shifted we haven't gone back.

I want to say in the last.

It might have actually just been.

I want to say since Christmas.

But yeah, I mean if you think about Neptune is kind of bringing that fog to who am I?

You know, who.

Who am I in this world?

What am I?

And it's interesting because my awareness has never been clearer.

There is nothing foggy about my awareness.

The, the way to the.

The depth to which I can read a situation on so many levels now.

Like I can, I can suss out my own projections from where the, where a person is coming from to what they think is happening to what this actually subconsciously happening for them.

The underpinnings of the vibe where the energy is going.

Like I feel I've never operated at this level of awareness.

But my ability to communicate that awareness is no longer coming from my mind.

It won't work if it comes from my mind which is like we are also going from quad left to quad right in.

In human design terms.

And so it's like it comes through a channel for me.

And it's not only that I can't we do this, we do something similar but different.

So same thing.

I take like big vibey concepts and kind of put them into.

To metaphor or bite sized pieces.

But my ability to do that has diminished over the last six years partially because I don't have the words and also because I don't have the energy.

Like I can't find the energy to put in the effort to do that.

Because it's not the point anymore.

It's not the point.

But our minds are like struggling to accept that because we've been living under the terms and the constructs of one era, one age where it very much was the point to try to like 61 as a key to try to get to the very bottom of the thing and understand it and focus on it.

9 gain the skill set.

16 to be able to communicate it in detail.

62 right.

And then essentially build an entire system of relationality and materiality based on that understanding.

And so we're like, we're currently taking in the new terms.

We're starting to feel into the new terms but we're still trying to understand them collectively.

And individually based on the framework of the old terms.

Yep.

And it's fucking confusing as hell.

Which to come back to Neptune, you were Talking about like 2026 feels like the shift for you.

It makes a lot of sense if you just look at it really basically astrologically, like if the actual key change happens.

And is it February 15, 2027 at that point, Pluto's already been in Aquarius, Neptune and Saturn.

Like everything that the outer planets are gonna be doing in 2027 have happened or are happening this year, like Uranus's ingress into Gemini.

So all of those slow moving kind of era shaping planets are in formation where they will be as the actual key change happens.

And yeah, I just wanna make this other note.

Let's see if I can find words for it.

When you're in a serious mode of deconstruction, mental deconstruction, whether that's from religion, like a huge life circumstance programming that you're letting go of, or just like a little, in my case right now it feels like a smaller piece of how I see reality is getting kind of chipped away at.

And you're in this period of deconstruction, there's gonna be a natural feeling phase of confusion.

And that confusion is good, it's necessary because you have to kind of enter that fog in order to fully let go of the old constructed belief or lens or whatever.

But we can feel really like it feels really uncomfortable, essentially.

That confusion can feel really uncomfortable because where's the ground to stand on?

How am I supposed to think now?

And so yeah, I'm just kind of feeling into that.

I've been thinking about that a lot lately with Neptune coming all up in my business as a first decan Aries stellium, but also what Neptune in Aries represents and what the Saturn Neptune conjunction in Aries represents as the beginning and with 2027 as the beginning.

And what I just tried to articulate of us living overlapping in these two sets of keys right now is like.

It just is literally confusing because on one level, like one part of us is feeling and welcoming in, not welcoming in is maybe even too charged of a word.

Like is experiencing non negotiably this shift.

And then on the mental plane we just like don't know how to deal with it.

And the only option, per my understanding, is constant surrender, constant attunement to the moment.

And surrender, which we could say is.

Is in large part what the outer planets have been preparing us for.

If we think about Aquarius and then Pisces preceding Aries.

It's like there's almost this shock, like this whiplash happening because the outer planets, and in Pluto's case is still finishing up, but in Neptune's case, in Saturn's case, not in outer planet, but whatever, are finishing up this time in the really zoomed out perspective of the third trimester of the zodiac, sag, Cap, Aquarius, Pisces, where things are very depersonalized, especially after you leave sag, it gets very impersonal from there.

Very zoomed out.

And now that shift from the most zoomed out, the most attached to the most outside of it, to the extreme locality of Aries, the extreme personalization of Aries.

Yeah, there's like a whiplash happening there, like, well, who am I now?

Like you said and what do I do with this?

Right?

Because Aries is also so action oriented.

So yeah, I'm just kind of feeling into the intensity of the confusion of like, okay, the new conditions are here and fuck now like the mind has to catch up.

Except it's not even, I don't know, does the mind have to catch up?

Will the mind ever catch up?

Well, I think we're like, what is the shift from planning to sleeping Phoenix is awareness moves from the AJNA to the.

Or, Sorry, Yeah, yeah.

From third dimensional awareness to fifth dimensional awareness, AJNA to solar plexus.

Right.

And so many of us have been undergoing that process for years, you know, because I think what solar plexus awareness looks like is like self awareness.

It looks like, you know, I know what my nervous system feels like, I know what my.

I know the vibes, I know what my spleen is, is telling me to do.

Because we're going to have that 57.

Right.

It's, it's an internal awareness.

It's an awareness of your internal experience where the AJNA had us externalizing everything.

And so I resonate with the kind of subtle fear that if I'm not my mind, what am I?

If I.

And for me that's all.

I guess it's not all because in 2020 I remember thinking I would have no friends or a partner or whatever if it wasn't for my mind.

Because people only care about your personality, you know, But I now, you know, as we move into a reality that is about resonance rather than facts and information, you know, and I say that as a first line fear motivated person.

I think that once we get over the nervousness of it, it's going to be a huge relief no matter how quote, unquote bad or Chaotic things get out there.

It is going to be a huge relief to go into that six line after most of us living our entire lives in the first line.

We've only known that fear motivation as a collective.

And I would say that that is, is, that's a rough energy for the collective to live under, especially if it's not your like native energy.

And so I think it's just crazy how all these things like play in together with each other.

But I think that Neptune in Aries, specifically with Saturn and Aries, is going to make everything about the self.

Right.

So spiritual awakening is going to become about self awareness, getting to know yourself.

Themes are going to be about your own personal power, using your own personal power, zooming back in, you know, like you were just saying.

And it is.

And then that innocence motivation is right behind it, that six line vibes energy.

And so part of the reason that we're all looking outside of ourselves for security.

And I'm even experiencing this as someone who has the first line, you know, and the fear motivation is like I'm needing less and less information to feel safe because I'm feeling my safety, feels like it is dependent on me.

And so it's all about do I trust me?

Yeah.

Do I trust the vibes?

You know?

Yeah.

And so I think that.

The, the.

Loss of the acute mental acumen is less scary.

That word you just found.

Yeah.

I was at acuity and I was like, I think that's where you book an obsession with me.

The, the, the loss of that feels less threatening as it becomes less useful at the same time, you know?

Yeah.

It is mostly like the skills.

What do I do for work.

Right.

You know, but it's crazy.

I'll listen, I'll do a lot.

I'll do like a live stream or something and then I'll have to listen to part of it back.

And I'm like, how does anyone understand anything I'm saying?

I haven't finished a sentence in 45 minutes.

But then I'll do a session with someone who is kind of doing that same ADHD stream of consciousness.

And you're following and I'm totally following.

I'm like, I'm hooked into the frequency of it.

Right.

20, 57, 59.

Yeah.

New keys.

Yeah.

I started thinking about, you were saying self awareness is like where.

What spirituality is going to be about?

You said something along those lines.

Yeah.

And I started like one, well, I wrote down what is self awareness in the context of self reflected consciousness.

And then I added to it like what is closeness in the context of self reflected consciousness?

What is connection?

What is security?

What does bravery mean?

What does audacity mean?

And these are like yeah, just new questions inspired by what you just shared.

That feel very Neptune in aries.

Neptune in 0 degrees Aries.

Taking everything that has been mm presented to my individual consciousness and collective consciousness through this era, through these eras of let's say Neptune in Aquarius, Neptune in Pisces.

These very zoomed out, depersonalized, connected to oneness, to the all to source perspectives.

Perhaps I'm finding myself wanting to add lots of disclaimers to the sentence because I'm just kind of processing aloud.

So let me just instead say one disclaimer which is.

I don't know if I'm right.

This is a possible hypothesis to play with right now.

But I'm thinking about it as if that Neptune in Pisces era, Neptune in Aquarius, perhaps preceding it to some extent also laid the foundation for this acceleration towards an understanding on a soul level of passenger consciousness and self reflective consciousness, which is the new way 55 as the new key for the way that feels like this to me.

And it and it's synonymous with this mutation that we alive today are doulas for of the evolution away from Ajna mental awareness and towards solar plexus spirit other dimensional awareness.

If we have been assimilating to an extent that's probably not even comprehendable to our minds, which is why it makes it hard to talk about it.

Okay, I'm gonna continue with another side trajectory before coming back to this sentence.

But like some of this at a loss for words thing is like we're becoming more and more attuned to spirit consciousness and there aren't words for that.

Right.

So like what if it's not brain fog?

What if it's like oh sorry, I'm too deep in knowing other dimensional knowing that I'm like I'm not disconnected from.

I am disconnected.

I'm not as connected to the dimensionality, the density where I would be able to put it into words is another way I'm feeling into it.

Okay, coming back to.

I think this is a thread I want to try to get back to.

So if the last so many years has been whether conscious or otherwise, I think a bit of both.

This process of assimilation of who we are as humanity, like what this actually is, what consciousness actually is, it puts the concept of the individual and the self and self awareness into a very different context than if we didn't have that very zoomed out Context.

And so what is self awareness now?

Self awareness meant something different decades ago.

I think for me it definitely meant something different a while ago.

It was like I wanted to be self aware so that I could be good.

You know, I wanted to be like self aware so I wouldn't hurt anyone, so I would see myself and be seen as good.

Like that's what self awareness used to mean to me.

I don't know if I consciously would have said that, but in this moment I'm reflecting on that versus now.

I look at the concept of self awareness and I see it purely through the lens of passenger consciousness and self reflected consciousness.

This idea that we are each consciousness experiencing itself.

And there's a lot less binary, a lot less duality, a lot less good bad in that it's just this is what's happening.

And the whole point is for me to have this experience and to be aware of it and to watch it.

So yeah, I was just feeling into like, even self awareness is starting to have, or has started to have a whole different feel to it.

And that felt connected to me, to this Neptune ingress, to Aries and to what you were saying about spirituality.

Like the kind of Neptune being in a way representing what's behind the veil of the illusion, bringing that behind the veil influence into self awareness.

It's like the whole idea of what I am becomes something completely different.

I am being Aries.

And yeah, I want to throw in this other piece I was talking earlier about.

What even is the point of the mind now, considering all of this?

I've been thinking a lot about the Leo Aquarius axis as like ego mind and the relationship between ego and mind.

So more on that maybe in another convo.

But we are right after a Leo full moon, so that's feeling really alive for me right now.

But seeing the sextile between Pluto in Aquarius and Neptune in Aries and feeling into like, yeah, just all these new contexts and yeah, okay, I'm gonna stop trying because now it's starting to feel a little forced.

But just there's something about what is self awareness?

What is the self now after this long period of assimilating this very like other dimensional understanding and context, what does that mean about our experience of the self and individuality?

But also at the same time, Pluto is still out there in Aquarius doing this kind of like decimation process.

And I, I think I said this in one of the previous episodes.

I just have this feeling that like humanity's understanding of what the mind even is and what knowledge Even is.

And the role that knowledge plays in the whole complex ecosystem of the human mind, body, spirit, emotional body, that's like massively changing too.

And that feels like just another way of looking at the shift from Ajna to solar plexus is like, what role does knowledge.

Aquarius.

I know, fixed air mind, what role does that even play within the whole.

Like that is getting completely karmically renegotiated right now with Pluto in Aquarius.

Yeah.

I don't find Aquarius.

I think that Aquarius gets misunderstood.

I mean, I don't know.

I can't say that I. I feel like some like people hear humanitarian or that it's about the group or whatever and.

And attribute a lot more codependency than I associate with Aquarius.

First of all, Aquarius rules what like someone.

The end of basically the.

The end of someone's life.

Right.

Like their elderly years.

I don't find that to be a.

A wildly codependent time.

You know, I think that people attribute this youth kind of way of looking at things and doing things to Aquarius energy.

Where Aquarius is.

It's Saturn aloof.

You know, I do resonate with Uranus and Saturn ruling Aquarius and Neptune and Jupiter ruling Pisces because I think that new bodies showed up to represent the new energy as we evolve.

So I'm not someone who clings to like old versions of astrology.

I kind of feel the same about like Western astrology is because we needed to have something to represent Western culture because it's not gonna be completely embodied in the other ones.

Right.

So.

And so when you think of like a combination of Uranus and Saturn, there is this like, I see Capricorn.

Saturn is saying like, this is the way things are.

And then the combo in Aquarius going.

But like.

Yeah, but why?

You know, it feels like a manifesting generator energy to me.

That's like, I'm.

Surely this could be done more efficiency, efficiently.

See, but Aquarius is not like.

I don't know how many Aquariuses you know or like, you know, a lot people with a lot these placements.

But they are not great with being told what to do.

It is a very autonomous energy as is.

Gemini is not.

I mean, it's mutable, but it's not.

It's more.

You're talking about the signs that Sextile Aries.

There's a real like fandom and friendship with the autonomy.

Yeah.

This is very.

A shift to a very.

I don't care about the rules, you know, I only care about the rules that I, what, what did I used to say?

I only follow the rules I'm not interested in breaking.

Like, I don't, I don't care about that.

So when it, when it comes to like the self and this energy as we move into an unprecedentedly individual age, in my research and you know, some of this stuff is hard to look up, but we don't, we don't even really have anything to draw from historically for the level of, in individual energy that's hitting the planet.

Okay.

And so you have.

Aries is like the, the orientation because I, I relate to Neptune as this is the premise of the game that we're playing.

And I think that these energies are kind of setting the stage.

So in the cross of planning my log line for that is sacrifice the individual to build infrastructure.

You, the individual did not matter.

Me, the individual did not matter.

What mattered was the role that we played in the collective.

And so self awareness, no matter how hard we tried, self awareness was always going to be related back to the group because that's what we were.

We were a cog in the wheel.

And so I want to be self aware so that I could be good is because we could not experience ourselves as anything other than an organism in this kind of codependent thing.

Right.

And in the cross of Sleeping Phoenix, you know, the awakening and ascension are a con.

Like a literal construct.

They are the, the city of, of 2 of the Const.

Here.

The purpose is to, I believe, to awaken and realize that the reality out there is a reflection of your internal experience.

And so to shift like reality is not happening to you.

You are creating it and not in the cheesy new age way.

So self awareness is under.

It's almost like waking up inside of this spaceship and realizing all these knobs you've been pushing in your unconsciousness.

And when you have a planet of primarily self aware people, they're no longer pushing buttons and steering the ship in directions that you know, aren't fun because, or you know, like aren't what we think we want because we're no longer operating out of unconsciousness.

So to self awareness is to become completely conscious.

Like now that I understand my nervous system and, and have that awareness that when I go into Fight orf flight, I know that I'm in Fight orf flight.

I'm no longer reacting.

Yeah.

I'm no longer fawning.

I'm no longer saying yes when I mean no.

I'm no longer lying to avoid conflict.

No longer perpetuating the dissemination of distortion and hurt and lies and dishonesty in the.

In the relational and collective grid.

Yeah, there's this capacity to like.

So this feels very.

Being on the tail end of Uranus in Taurus, right?

This revolution through the body.

Revolution through nervous system capacity.

I've been in kind of a nervous system.

Like I've been either in nervous system freeze or very close to it for a few days.

In part because of a week of bad toddler sleep, but other things too.

And it's made me remember, you know, I, I've.

I've had a intellectual awareness of this for a while now, but it's made me have to physically remember in my body in real time how reality is completely different when I'm regulated versus when I'm not.

Like literally I am living in a different reality when I'm in a free state versus when I'm regulated.

And I really see that, like I can see the starkness of my awareness around essentially what you just described as having been a big part of the curriculum of Uranus in Taurus, which is also changing this year.

Oh.

That was supposed to be a side quest.

Okay, Gonna let go of it.

The more I try to cling and find it, the worse it gets.

Gonna let go of it.

Do you remember what you were talk about or do you have something new?

Oh, just kind of talking about what self awareness means and what a. I believe we are.

Okay, I was gonna say something about like we, we have no choice but to meet reality.

I mean I just talked about this a lot on both the Mars episode and the Chiron episodes because those, those have a lot to do with what we're talking about.

Individuation and healing of the wound of separation.

We have no choice but to meet reality as ourselves.

Okay.

Neptune in Aries, we're now meeting also this otherworldly, other realmly, other dimensional behind the veil context of what it is to be.

Spirit experiencing itself, consciousness experiencing itself through the very localized plane of I am.

And I think like looking at this nervous system stuff we were just talking about, which I keep prescribing to Uranus in Taurus, there's like I am now resourced to experience.

Okay, I'm a little.

You were talking about this early on on the call, like okay, I'm triggered or I'm activated, or there's something here that's making me feel threatened, making me feel unsafe and I notice what's happening in my body and.

And now more than ever I have the capacity to deal with that, if not entirely in my own body and system and awareness in a much more localized way.

Like I can reach out to.

I can literally ask Budway to like touch me.

Yeah.

You know, or I can like reach out to one person and process it a bit.

And when that's done from a place of honesty, which this feels to me like the co presence of Saturn with Neptune at the beginning of this transit, at the beginning of this Neptune in Aries transit.

I keep thinking of Saturn in Aries as just this radical fucking honesty and the responsibility of being honest with yourself and the people around you with what's here for you right now.

What are you experiencing right now.

And I feel more and more resourced to be able to deal with anything that I meet honestly.

Which means that there's less and less that I need to.

This is.

Is coming back to the codependent relationship with external reality in general.

There's less and less that I need to spew out of my system to try to prove to myself that it like either to try to escape the discomfort of what's here or to try to prove to myself or anyone else that these ugly feelings aren't showing up.

And yeah, there was something.

This is a different thread.

But when you were talking earlier too, there was something coming up for me around like I hadn't made this connection before somehow that on the cusp of this huge shift into an individual emphasis like we've never known and like understatement of the century.

There's really no way to articulate or even understand like how huge this shift away from collective circuitry towards individuality is.

But I hadn't made entirely like this direct of a connection in my own mind to Pluto in Aquarius and the kind of there is a collective orientation to Aquarius.

I don't think there's an inherently homogenized collective orientation.

It doesn't have to be that way, I should say.

But I do think the Aquarian parts of us are in large part responsible like shadow Aquarian parts of us are in large part responsible for if we're working with the framework of responsibility and blame, which is always a little tainted whatever for like homogenized fascist ways of trying to build, find the knowledge and disseminate it widely.

So anyways, yeah, just seeing.

I'm seeing in a new way right now the end of cross of planning, the beginning of sleeping Phoenix.

This huge unfathomable shift from a collective orientation to individuality happens with Pluto in the sign of Aquarius opposite the sign of Leo.

Leo being a place that's so about the centrality of one ego, one individual, one individual's experience.

And Aquarius being more oriented towards hive mind, collective.

And again, not hive mind as in it's inherently homogenizing or inherently has to compromise autonomy.

But I think there is a distillation of Aquarius that is like.

I'm thinking of, like, telepathy.

That's Aquarian.

Or like the show Pluribus.

This I've been watching.

I don't know if you've heard of that one.

I feel like I have to watch it so that I know what everyone's referencing.

Yeah, yeah.

Just like the capacity.

It's like if Pisces is the stew of oneness where there's not even, like, thought, we just are connected.

Aquarius just precedes that.

So it's like that, except mind is still there.

It's like.

Yeah, there is like a. I don't know of a word more neutral for hive mind, because I don't need to.

Interesting.

Yeah.

Because I feel like Capricorn is the height of the structured pyramid of hierarchy.

Right.

It is the most functional the systems can ever be.

And then Aquarius is the decentralization of that.

And then Pisces goes like, no borders, no boundaries.

I kind of have this, like.

So this originated for me when I was taking acid monthly as my job.

Do you remember that?

I think, though, I think that I met you around the tail end of that or something.

Do have you know this about me?

I.

Maybe.

But I think at that point in my life that would have not seemed.

Significant, substantial, out of the norm.

Yeah.

Last time I was in a solar year, my last Leo year, I, like, designed a lot of my work, my creative work that year around.

Every time the sun was in a new sign, I took some acid, wrote a meditation, wrote and shared a meditation, wrote a song.

I have a whole album of songs from this.

And anyways, I think, yeah, a lot of my understanding of the zodiac rests on a lot of the distilled senses I got as I was moving through that process the last time the sun was my Time Lord.

And I remember this kind of visual.

From Cap to Aquarius to Pisces is like the shift from Cap to Aquarius is, you know, Capricorn's the final Earth sign.

So it's like.

I remember picturing, like, as you walk from Capricorn into Aquarius, you get kind of, like, zapped.

There's like a shower that, like, zaps you out of 3D contexts.

But it's still very collective oriented.

And Then you're not purely showered and cleaned of the karma until you arrive to Pisces.

So I guess I really experience Aquarius as a transition from the earthly plane to the other.

Right.

And mind is still really there.

Yeah, it's obviously a collective energy.

I think codependent is the.

Is the.

Is the.

Yeah, but there, there is, there is.

I would say there's a shadow.

There's still that Saturn shadow in Aquarius of an unconscious desire to dominate.

But it is an autonomous.

It's almost like in its.

In its highest expression, it.

It's ecosystem consciousness.

Yeah, it's highest expression because Pisces is almost like non existence.

Right.

There's nothing functioning really.

So in its highest expression, that Aquarian energy is ecosystem consciousness.

It understands that you are.

You serve a different function than me.

And you have to determine what that function is.

I can't impose that on you.

But in its like, less mature expressions, it still has so much of that.

That.

You know, so much of that.

It's still got that Saturn fascism.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And something that we see in something that I think we will learn with Neptune, with Pluto in Aquarius is.

I have to choose my words wisely here, I think, because when I think of activism, I think of and wanting to revolution and wanting to change things.

A lot of that is Aquarian.

And so, you know, Pluto helps us see what things are ineffective.

It kind of reveals some of those things.

And there is this very interesting, like, we need to fight fascism with more rules kind of idea that, that I see in people that it.

What did I see the other day?

There's someone talking about AI.

There's like AI artists, okay, that are making music and they allegedly have 3 million views.

I just assume all these apps are lying, but whatever.

They allegedly have 3 million views.

And the amount of people that are like, this is bad.

These companies need to.

To ban these AI artists.

It's like the solution is.

Is more rules.

More rules?

Yeah, always more rules.

Without understanding that the slippery slope of us determining rules for other people, where I'm just like, just don't listen to the AI artist.

You know what I mean?

And don't concern yourself with the 3 million people is lit.

There's what 300 million people, like, don't concern yourself with the people that choose to listen to that.

It doesn't have to be a threat to you.

But I look at everything from this like, hyper kind of individual.

I definitely think about the collective, but I think about the collective as, you know, hundreds of millions a grid of individuals.

And so the solution is not for me to tell, first of all to ask a corporation, because that just makes the corporation daddy, you know.

And so there is this.

We need to fix fascism.

We need more rules to fix the fascism.

You know, we need to.

We need to tell people or this is idea that like we need to tell people who they can have on their podcasts.

Because that.

And it's like to me, I'm like, we need to ask ourselves why people are resonating with these people on the podcast.

Not censorship.

Like that doesn't even.

You're never fixing this.

The.

The core of the pro.

You're not even curious about the core of the problem.

You want to try to throw more rules at it.

Yeah, there's like, okay, there's something that was coming through around the shift from Pluto from Capricorn into Aquarius and how Capricorn is much more grounded and tangible reality than Aquarius.

So like the systems, it felt kind of like what we were talking about earlier, where cross of planning is.

We can't grasp it anymore.

It's not possible.

Right.

Like Pluto finished its work in Capricorn.

There's no more physical buy in to those physical structures and systems.

But now we're seeing what is being exposed is the mental grasping that got us there.

Right.

So there's something coming in around that.

Then what I really wanted to go to, which I should have just gone to first because now it's kind of far away, is like Neptune in Aries.

And you know, as an Aries, there's a really.

There's an impulse in Aries to defend against.

I've told this story just one or two times before on the air.

So let me tell it again.

Austin Coppock has done some, a lot of work with the Decans.

His book is called like the 36 faces.

Something something.

And I bought his class a long time ago, went to start listening to it.

He goes in zodiacal order.

So the first little lecture is on the first Decan of Aries, which is where my Aries stellium is.

I have not made it past that one lecture, but I have this memory that I just think it describes Aries and me and first second Aries, I guess.

Cause I didn't listen to the second two decades really well.

But he said something about first second Aries.

He basically said what I just said.

There's like a real impulse to defend.

Like that decan of Aries is always going to just defend no matter what.

And I literally found myself taking that in and having the inner dialogue of no, I don't.

And then was like, okay, stopped the recording and never went back.

So that's, that's the extent of my work, of my taking in Austin Kuppock's work.

But all of that to say like that I'm that impulse to fight, to defend.

And I mean, this is also like in my cross I have the 38 and the 39 are my design, sun and Earth.

So that like fighter on both sides, you know, the provocation, the fighter, like opposition.

I think Gate 38 is one of them is like called the Gate of the opposition or the fighter or something.

Anyways, it's like so in my nature to fight and I'm just feeling into.

To like the cause.

There's a lot here with Aquarius and Pluto in Aquarius.

But I think there's something here with Neptune in Aries too of like demystifying but also glamorizing as Neptune often does, that impulse to fight to be against something and the power dynamic of that.

Right.

And like you and I this fall taught this whole class called in our authority, where we basically just taught the human design authorities.

But there was this context that we were trying to bring in that organically came in because it's just what's relevant right now of like anytime we look to external reality, whether that's through our primary relationship, whether that's through our relationship with the government, whether that's through our relationship with.

With reality in general, anytime we look to external reality to give us permission for something or validate something, we're putting ourselves in a position of powerlessness, which is not the actual truth.

And so I think, like, It's hard for me to talk about because it doesn't feel baked yet.

But this is like one of the things that I'm sensing into with Neptune in Aries is this glamorization of the fight, the fight against.

But the.

That's still very immature, as we might say us just first second.

Aries is which I say with defensiveness in like.

It's this.

Yeah, it's this like immature defense mechanism that's not yet understanding.

I don't know.

Yeah, I'll just.

Yeah, I'll pause.

There's something about that and I. I think I. I think I'm also being influenced by my understanding of 34, Gate 34 as a new key in the shadow of that and force.

Yes.

And yeah.

Like who.

Like the impulse to fight and the why of that and the spiritual context around that.

Yeah, no, I mean, I Think that's kind of.

So what I was trying to get to with the Aquarius thing.

I'm not sure if I landed the plane.

But I think that one of the lessons that we'll learn with Pluto in Aquarius is a maturity around.

I don't want to say activism because I.

It's.

I. I don't want to associate it with like something that has a fighting for what's right or justice, I guess.

Right.

The collective justice.

And I believe what we are headed toward is a series of fracturing.

I think by the end, definitely by the end of Cross of Sleeping Phoenix.

But.

But most likely in the next next decade or so an end of the.

Of nations.

We'll start to see nations break up into smaller groups.

And I think once we start to see states succeeding from the union, I think that we will like, we will not be able to get enough of breaking up into smaller and smaller groups.

That's where I think we are most likely headed with it.

With the energy of the cross of Sleeping Phoenix.

Sorry, sorry.

What were you going to do?

It's just interesting to think about the way that I've been feeling into and talking about Aries for so long is I take the phrase the illusion of separation and I insert the word the intentional illusion of separation.

Like we came here to fragment and that's why Aries has such a sense of worth and like a willingness to focus on the me and the I is because it's carrying over this knowledge from Pisces.

That is.

Yes, oneness.

And now oneness fragmented.

So this is baked in.

I talk about this all the time.

But now I'm thinking about it through what you're bringing in here of the fracturing in the collective and in the co created reality experience on a completely different scale.

Right.

We're talking about like states seceding, not individual bodies incarnating from the soup of consciousness in the third dimension.

But it's like I'm seeing it in this moment as the same thing and seeing Neptune as has kind of this force that comes in and sprinkles fairy dust on the collective.

To say like, this is what feels enchanting.

This is what's popular now.

This is what's glamorous now.

This is the romantic game of life now.

And yeah, just I'm seeing that Neptune in Aries in a new way.

Per that last share of like what's popular now is to fracture.

Let's fracture that.

That's the game.

Yeah, yeah.

And I think in its highest expression, Aquarian energy is a collective of autonomous individuals.

And so I think that in the.

You know, because obviously all things are going to exist at the same time.

So we're going to see the shadowy expression of these energies and we're going to see the highest expression.

Right.

And it's going to be dependent on the.

The.

The smaller collectives level of consciousness.

But Aquarius's methods of solving collective group problems is autonomy.

It is like zoom.

It's very zoomed out.

And when you zoom out and look at the difficulties from a non cross of planning, we're no longer on the same page.

We are no longer sacrificing the individual to build infrastructure.

We are no longer all playing the same game.

The only actual solution to these problems is to break up.

That is the only solution is to be.

Is to let people go into.

And so I think at some point people are going to go.

I think you probably see California or something start to Minnesota, try to succeed from the Union.

The.

We're going to go, what?

Like, we can't have a nation because it's an exploitable power.

I think this is the, this is the.

The way that.

That 34, 34, 2057 configuration is going to go.

You know what?

We can't.

We can't have concentrated power and Aquarius energy is decentralizing things.

Right.

And then Aries is giving this.

This sense of urgency that we need to figure, like, we need to figure this out immediately.

Like, let's just do something.

And this is where, you know, you couldn't even consider the nation breaking up when, you know, when Neptune wasn't Pisces due to Capricorn.

Yeah, we started to consider it when Neptune was in Pisces.

Yeah.

But you could not.

We were considering.

It wasn't even tangible.

But now you have just like, you know, the, the veil has been lifted.

You can see behind the curtain, you know, all of the horrors, like every day new horrors are coming out.

The.

The leader of the charade is pooping his pants on national television.

I mean, and.

And people are just going like, I don't.

What.

Like what the.

You know what I mean?

Like, I just not even, not even registering it.

Yeah, I was like, I was.

I.

My entire feed is.

Is videos of this man himself during press conferences.

And I'm like, cute.

Which I am on fart talk.

So I, I was gonna say I want your algorithm.

And so I am just like, I would love to time Travel back to 2012, Jessa, and be like, all right, you're not gonna believe this, but you know, that guy from that reality show?

Okay, so he's the president, and he is pooping his pants on a regular basis, and.

Yeah.

And that.

You know what I mean?

So.

Yeah.

So, like, we talk so much about.

I, like, we.

I don't know, me.

And, like, you in my.

In the context of me, whatever that means.

We talk so much about, like, divesting from the old reality.

And the phrase that just came to my head as you were translating to 20 years ago, Jessa, what actually happens on this timeline was, like, that old reality has already divested from itself.

Like, it is gone.

Like, this is where we are now.

Yeah.

This is what it is now.

You actually have to put a lot of work into taking this reality very seriously.

Yes.

Like, and by.

Sir, I'm not saying that serious things aren't happening.

I'm saying that to.

To see this reality as a tenable path forward, you have to be living in a remarkable amount of fantasy.

I mean, the Emperor's New Clothes could not be more obviously not clothes.

It could not.

You know, the wizard of Oz is the.

The curtain is wide open for everyone to see, and everyone's just kind of pretending that this is the same thing that it was 10 years ago.

And so I think we will really start to rapidly see people going like, oh, you have no power over me.

And I do think that we will see a lot of harebrained, dangerous, not well thought out, reactive action, and I think that will be very good for us.

But one thing that I do warn with Neptune and Aries is you need to be very cautious.

You need to have awareness when you're out in public.

And you need.

Don't.

With people.

Don't.

Don't people there.

Many people are already hanging on by a thread, but people will be more reactive and violent, I believe, especially while Saturn's there.

And so, you know, have an awareness that as this energy starts to get moving, it's a lot of good will come from it.

But it's also, you know, it's Mars energy.

And so it is.

There's going to be less crying and more throwing, you know, so I. Yeah, I mean, I.

We're at the.

We're at the early stage of all this energy, and so we'll.

I'm excited for what we'll see as it matures.

I'm going to be a senior citizen by then, but I am excited.

I am excited.

I just ticked forward.

May 21, 2038 is our ingress of Neptune into Taurus.

Yeah.

Super fun.

So I'll be like almost 60.

Oh, I will be 60.

I can't even.

You were born in 77, right?

Yeah, yeah, 61.

My mind can't even comprehend 2038.

No, there was a day where I couldn't comprehend 2025.

So nor could I have.

Nor are we supposed to.

Which brings me back to Neptune in Aries.

Yeah, okay, here's a new way it's coming through as well.

Pisces is the boundarylessness, timelessness, space of everything, everywhere, all at once.

Aries is a point of singularity.

What's right here.

And with Neptune in Pisces, kind of the game, as you would say, or like the assignment was, I mean it was overwhelming.

And thank God we had this Uranus in Taurus sextile transit for part of it.

To revolutionize our sense of self and freedom through the body, through nervous system awareness, many of us.

But Neptune in Pisces was like so overstimulating because the Internet as an example, but also just like telepathy coming more and more online.

And connectivity, like being more connected to our multidimensional selves gives us more access to everything going on.

And that's really overwhelming to the system.

And there's a lot of empathy that came online, became more, I don't know, more popular, more widespread.

Neptune is a disseminator, a widespreader.

So a lot of like empathy came online, a lot of awareness came online.

But it was like, yeah, okay.

What I'm trying to get to is Neptune moving into Aries.

It's still gonna be this really overwhelming experience of all of it.

Cause that's what Neptune is.

But it's like now we access it through the needle dot of this point of singularity.

So we don't have to stay so aware of what's happening to everyone, everywhere, all the time.

That was the last assignment and we grew a lot through that and we learned a lot through that.

And now it's like take all of the empathy, the sensitivity, the telepathy, the way zoomed out other dimensional context that was gained from that, and now apply it to the very most localized thread of you in this moment.

And when you understand that all timelines are happening at once, like when we have this otherworldly Paiscian context, then this focusing in on the individual moment or the individual expression, or whatever's here in front of me right now no longer has the connotation of like selfishness.

Because I understand that that's what I do for collective well being is I, I, I metabolize, I digest, I Process.

I alchemize what's here.

And even the way I'm saying it is still, like, has some of these old threads of, like, that's what's responsible for the collective good.

And like, fine, that's how.

That's how we're gonna get.

That's how we're gonna get there.

That's how we're gonna ease our way into it.

But it is more neutral than that.

It's literally like I am powerless to change reality on that plane.

I am not powerless to metabolize this, alchemize this, change reality.

The scope of the most local thing.

And I think, yeah, with the Neptune piece in particular is showing me, like, it's bringing, you know, modern rulership of Pisces, like you said.

It's like bringing the connectivity into the singularity in a way that literally does empower us to have this scale of collective, multidimensional karmic power through the needle point of our very separate individual power.

Like sleeping Phoenix Awakening.

Individual awakening.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think from the cross of planning, we still have so much conditioning that individual energy is somehow opposed to collective.

Right.

Well, this is the Aquarius, Pluto polarity.

Right.

Like, it's an illusion that the collective grid is separate from the sovereignty of the individual.

Like, that's why Aquarius shadow shows up is because of the duality, because of the trap of duality telling us that what's, quote, best or right for the whole is in antithesis, is in contradiction to what's right for any one of the whole.

But in fractal consciousness, it's all the fucking same thing, right?

It's all the same thing, right?

And when I think of, like, going back to Aquarius representing, you know, the kind of end of your physical life, right?

There's a wisdom.

After you've lived an entire lifetime, there is an understanding of what is a wise use of your time, what battles should have been picked, where your energy should have been focused, right?

So when we're talking about.

The.

The higher expression of.

Of Aquarius, we are talking about wisdom.

Now we only get to experience the higher expression if we, you know, have.

Have chosen to embody that level of consciousness.

But having the power leave the systems and go into this, you know, ability to look back and reflect and see what has worked and hasn't worked.

I think that will be a lot of the lesson of Pluto in Aquarius.

And to have that happening at the same time that Neptune is in Aries, which is as young as you can get.

You haven't Learned any of those lessons yet.

But as you know, as a mother, you have the most energy to carry those things out.

Right.

When you're in your 70s, you have the wisdom, you don't have the energy.

When you're in your toddler years, you have the energy, you don't have the wisdom.

You will eat, you know, poison if there isn't someone there guiding you.

So we have a real potential here with these two energies playing at the same time to kind of look back and reflect at what worked and didn't work in the cross of planning and kind of understand that there is no tenable.

Yeah.

Option for gigantic societies to exist.

Sorry, my.

What's my.

I'm a separatist in human design.

So lean in.

Lean into it.

Yeah.

There is no tenable reality in which we get this many people on the same page.

There is no page in which we can all exist without oppressing some part of us, without repressing people's beliefs, their religion, their.

Their expression, whatever.

We are never getting everyone on the same page again.

Having all of us on the same page costs us our individual expression.

And so I, I.

What I see with Pluto in Aquarius is a mental shift.

After what I think will be a couple years of, like, hardcore reactivity, I think we will burn it to the ground and then go, okay, but wait, we can't create systems because we're not going to have the it in us.

We're not gonna have the follow through.

We're not going to have the mental capacity like that.

Going away is a gift for us because then we won't recreate the wheel.

But what, like, what is the plan if half of us believe something?

Like, we don't have groups to put everyone in anymore.

And then it just becomes like we have to break up and find people that we're in resonance with, which is like six line.

Right.

It's just vibes.

Like, who do we vibe with?

And the answer is not structures or systems.

And so that's where I speculate.

We're talking about Pluto and Aquarius more than I thought we would.

And Neptune and Saturn and Aries is the energy to get it done, you know, and is the also just kind of inability.

I'm seeing this already.

I knew this was coming, but I'm seeing this already.

People saying, like, I'm gonna stop focusing on things I can't change.

Neptune in Pisces made us feel so connected that everything feels hopeless for a lot of people because they're looking at all the things happening around the world and that they are powerless over.

And Neptune moving into Aries already has people saying, I'm going to focus on what I can do.

You know, I'm going to get out there and actually do something in my local area.

I'm, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to stop consuming or, or even keep consuming, but stop feeling overwhelmed.

People are getting off the Internet in droves.

I, you know, part of me is like, I think social media might have just been a Neptune and Pisces thing and they're getting into their physical life in the, in the moment, in the present local area.

Even if that is still on the Internet.

It's like, where can I actually have impact?

I want to take action.

I want to have impact.

And so I think that, yeah, I think that, I think that Pluto in Aquarius is a big part of the vibe of Cross the Sleeping Phoenix, but that Neptune and Saturn in Aries is the energy to get us there.

Yeah, but I've always said it feels like an Aquarius Aries age to me.

If I had to, knowing all those constructs, it feels Aquarius Aries to me.

Yeah.

After you and I taught the whole six lecture, 100 million hours long, 2027, the breakdown class that, you know, I think I told you a few weeks after we did that, that part of like, I was like, oh, you and I, some neurodivergence just took a specialized interest and shared it with other people and each other for long enough that there's now hundreds of other people that can talk about it with us.

Right.

Cause for a long time we were really each other's only main people that we could talk to about it.

And so then I noticed that in my Patreon calls I was relaxing into like using this terminology, like letting it just be in my lexicon.

Cause I think for a while I kind of censored myself.

Cause I was like, nobody knows what I'm talking about.

And even like this podcast series is like, I think a part of why I wanted to do it is because I want a place to talk about astrology and global cycle shift shifts.

And I feel like there's people now, you know, to be able to do that with.

But anyways, all of this to say.

That.

In November, I think it was, I taught just a short three hour workshop on my Patreon 2027, 101 that I've now made free.

So anybody can go find this in the free collection on my Patreon that goes nowhere near in depth.

Like it's not even you can't compare it to the class that we taught together.

But for people who just want a taste of it or aren't ready for whatever, don't want all the information of the Deep Dive that just kind of like sets up the framework of it.

And what I'm trying to get to is that I found myself framing the shift in a way that I maybe hadn't specifically said when we did the class altogether, which is probably just a.

A result of my own, like, continued assimilation of it.

The shift going from cross of Sleeping Phoenix, or, sorry, cross of Planning and cross of Maya had five collective, three tribal, one individual gate, and Sleeping Phoenix has five individual, two tribal, one collective.

So a shift from, like, everything we're talking about with the Aquarius stuff.

Like, I know it feels very collective, like a shift from templates, blueprints, trying to make, like fascism, basically.

Trying to make something that works at one point.

Now, the thing for all, for everything, a shift from a templated reality into a very untemplated, spontaneous, impulsive, localized, based on the person and the conditions in the moment.

Reality, Right?

A lot of what we're talking about with this Aries ingress and a phrase close to what I found myself saying in that class was that in the last era, the individual was a means to the collective.

And in the new era, the collective will be a means to an individual.

And when I look at what the one collective key is moving forward, it's 53 beginnings.

And it fits into the lock of the leader, right?

So if people want to hear us riff on this, there's the whole class for that, where we get really into it.

But I am really seeing, like, what's the collective?

It feels very Neptune in Aries, collective beginnings.

Like, the only template that the next era, the only collective template that the next era cares about and relies on is embodied leadership in new beginnings in the new reality.

So who is taking all of this individual awakening context that the rest of the Sleeping Phoenix and Penetration keys hold?

And who is stepping forward, beginning as we mean to go on to pull that Richard Rudd phrase from the gene keys about 53.

That's the only collective point.

And I remember there was a point when I was feeling into Neptune and Aries and feeling into this convo where 53 popped into my head and I wrote it down.

It's like Neptune in Aries.

Cause Neptune is collective, right?

Neptune is the collective game, moving right into Aries, having that Saturn conjunction really early on.

Who is embodying Saturn, Taking this dream of Autonomy, this dream of individuality.

That's also how I started to feel into Neptune on the morning that it ingressed.

I started really feeling into Neptune as the dream that's being dispersed and disseminated.

And really feeling into Neptune in Aries as a dream of freedom, but not Aquarian freedom, not ideological freedom, actual autonomous freedom in the moment, in my body, in my individuality right now.

And I was just feeling into Neptune, coming into Aries like the sandman and just sprinkling dust onto the collective.

And yeah, I just feel that the, the collective template moving forward, the only one that matters is this idea of embodied leadership around the next era, the new beginnings.

And that has, yeah, just started to feel kind of synonymous with how I'm feeling into Neptune and Aries.

Well, in the crossup planning, I see it like everybody had a job, you had a skill that you were good at, and that is who you were.

That was your identity.

Because you, the individual doesn't exist.

You are a cog in the wheel.

And so one of the cogs is the leader, right?

And so this becomes the person that we follow.

And our entire sense of personal autonomy doesn't exist because we are a cog in the wheel.

And so if I am an, a school teacher or an engineer or you know, a doctor even, I am not a leader unless I have been assigned by the collective to be a leader where in the cross of Sleeping Phoenix, every person is their own self governed, whatever.

And a leader is just someone who pops up and they're not given power.

They just pop up and go first, you know, and so they go when, when the problem becomes food, then someone who knows about food shares their special interests so that people can use it.

This is, this is how I picture like once we are further into this energy, a gift economy.

Someone asked me the other day what I thought about Bitcoin.

And I believe that even the idea of currency is coming from your programming of the cross of planning.

The idea that we need a currency to coexist is, is for sure capitalism programming, but that's coming from the cross of planning.

To think that we need something like that to work with each other in the cross of Sleeping Phoenix after these constructs have fallen.

I see there, you know, there's this entire culture around 3D printers where people see a problem that, that has a need and they innovate.

And my log line for the cross of Sleeping Phoenix is individuals innovating.

And I, people sleep on the innovation piece of it.

What we lose in infrastructure, we will gain in Innovation.

And every single individual has the opportunity to become an incredibly innovative person.

They create through their own just like special interest.

They create something and then you and everyone has their own 3D printer and then they put the blueprint on the Internet for free.

They're just sharing their innovations and people have the option of recreating those innovations at home.

We already see this with Tik Tok.

We already see people taking their special interests.

You know, I love like DIY, TikTok or YouTube, you know.

And so people find solutions to problems, they share the solution to problems.

The need to commodify every single aspect of our lives is a material reflection of the cross of planning, money and capitalism.

And this exists and are at a all time like fever pitch because of the cross of planning.

If you look back to how things were going 400 years ago, it wasn't like this, right?

What was money then?

Right.

And was it a global thing?

No.

Right.

So, you know, colonial, colonialization and, and cross a planning, you can go lay right on top of each other.

So these things are.

We think they are a part of what it is to be human.

But many cultures have existed without needing to commodify their existence.

The fact that I have a mortgage and a car payment is a construct.

It's just someone made this up.

And I have to bring my skill to the collective in order to get given money by the collective who determines what my skill is worth so that I can pay this person for their skill.

But that's actually very like immature way of structuring society.

And, and you know, I don't know if you've noticed, but the money's becoming worthless.

Like you go to the.

I go to the grocery store.

I'm.

I get three bags of groceries, it's 500.

Do you know what I mean?

So it's like this is, this is the dollar becoming worthless.

And I think everyone, because they keep trying to look at history in the cross of planning, they go, oh, the depression is coming.

Well, I mean, the Depression was kind of the depression because capitalism continued to exist after it.

If we go into like a complete freefall of the dollar, which we are, we will just question the existence of the Dharma.

We will have no choice but to find other ways, a different way to structure ourselves, to have resource, to access resource.

And our whole understanding of what resource is, is going to change.

Which I actually, on a very personal level, that's been a huge component of the last many years of my life.

I have Saturn, Neptune, Uranus in the second house so like what the fuck even is Resource is a big part of my own karmic experience.

And yeah, I've been, you know, my human design experiment has really recalibrated me to ultimately understanding peace to be the ultimate resource in my life and allowing myself to let that be the central theme that everything in my life gravitates around.

That's been an extremely resourcing experience.

But it's really challenged me to understand Resource in a very, very, very different way than my conditioning, than our conditioning, you know, has, has offered or has invited me into.

And I'm thinking about the last conversation I had with Jonathan was Chiron.

And that was, it was really intense and vulnerable and we talked mostly about Chiron in Aries, but we do get this little dip of Chiron into Taurus this year, just over the summer we have our first dip of Chiron into Taurus.

And I'm thinking about that too as I'm listening to you talk like after this nine fucking years of Chiron in Aries and the co dependency clearing and the healing of the wound of separation as Chiron moves into Taurus, I am kind of feeling into this, starting to heal through reconnection which I'm seeing also as the shift from 40 as the temple to 59.

So coming back into intimate relating but also healing our relationship to Resource, I think.

Or healing through our relationship to Resource as maybe a Chiron and Taurus theme as well.

Yeah, like enoughness.

Resource being one of the next stages through which a lot of this healing is going to take place on.

Yeah, I'm starting to hear about.

So I'm in my Chiron return right now then, huh?

I mean I know you're in it for the entire time it's in Aries, but that's been like seven or eight years.

But I'm like in it.

In it.

It's 28 degrees.

Yeah.

Are you asking me or telling me?

Yeah, I'm asking you.

Right.

Your Chiron is at.

Yeah, 28.

And currently Chiron is at.

It's at 23.

But yes, it's almost, it's going to be out like it's going to pass your Chiron this year maybe twice with the retrograde.

Okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

Well that's because I've been saying I feel.

Because I know it's around 50.

So I've been saying I know that and yeah, it's so far.

Huge fan of never, never having cared less about.

I, I think that's a huge transition as well.

I have a lot of Aries placements.

I have quite a few things in.

Aries and South node Venus Chiron for anyone curious.

Yeah.

And one of the beautiful gifts of Aries and also interesting timing of this is doing what you want to do and showing up the way that you want to show up without really giving a shit what everyone's opinion is of that.

And that has been obviously Aries Chiron.

A huge painful process for me since probably Chiron started transiting.

Aries is and a theme in my life, you know, because my nodes are there of like I want to be a part of a community.

I want to be in partnership.

I want to be, you know, I want to be in relationship to other people.

Libra.

But then somehow that always ends up costing me being myself.

Aries.

And so I've had all these experiences where I found community and Christianity.

But then when I personally outgrew it, I had to get excommunicated from it.

I found community in 12 step recovery.

But when I started to outgrow the constructs of that, I felt excommunicated.

I found community in some political beliefs or some ways of orienting towards things.

But when I really needed to express myself as an anarchist, I, I had to experience the excommunication of people who have a stronger affiliation with a team.

You know what I mean?

And so I've had this experience throughout my life where it's like, I love you guys, I want to be a part of your community.

But like I can't have, I can't have my worldviews handed to me by a, A, a requirement to be in community.

And so I've always had a very.

Because I didn't understand my nervous system, like a big survival experience around this.

I've always been very afraid of people being mad at me and being unwanted.

And I have to say at this point in my life, like I've never cared less because I, I'm not going to go out and like purposely offend people.

But if I'm being myself and you don't like it, it's not my circus, not my mom keys.

It just really isn't my responsibility at this point.

And I now understand that has more to do with you than it has to do with me.

And so I don't have to hold it, I don't have to manage it, I don't have to protect myself from your projections.

You can just, they can just sail on right by.

And that is beauty and gifts of Aries energy, I think and much needed as we start to break up.

Yeah, There's a lot right here.

I think a lot of what you're talking about is very specific to your makeup as a pure individual.

Right.

And as a Chiron Venus South Node in Aries, like, even Venus in Aries, which we share, is like, how I connect most organically and honestly and lovingly is through being so radically honestly me and not giving a fuck about, you know, like, what I give a fuck about in you is that you have that in you too.

Right?

Like, yep.

So there's that.

But then I also, I think, because I'm coming off of what felt like a really fucking tender conversation with Jonathan about Chiron.

Part of what was really clear to me, like, in that conversation was Jonathan and I are close to the same age.

We're both Chiron in Cancer.

So this Chiron in Aries transit has been our closing chiron square.

And a lot of what we talked about is us kind of playing the Chiron role through our work, like playing the role of spiritual teacher and healer in what we do, and yet not having yet had our full Chiron return.

Right.

So we're like, still healing a lot of core wound shit.

And we're only, you know, 75% of the way through our cycle with that.

And we're still in this role.

So.

Because that's really fresh in my mind, I'm hearing what you're saying, like, just about complete with your Chiron return.

And I'm thinking about the concept in human design of coming off the roof, which usually is talked about for six lines, but we all have that, right.

The roof period is between our first Saturn return and our Chiron return.

And it's this period of, like, detaching a bit Aquarian vibes to essentially heal from our neuroses and discover who we actually are as authorities in our own lives.

And then all of that gets assimilated and supposedly.

And I think you're demonstrating after the Chiron return, there's this capacity to come down off the roof and if you're a role model, sure, become the role model.

But all of us are stepping more fully into embodying who we are as differentiated individuals.

And from what I'm hearing in you, I'm hearing.

I'm just.

Yeah, I'm hearing the difference between where you're at and where I'm at.

Which is really interesting because, like, pre Saturn return, I had such access to what you're calling here, these Aries gifts.

And then now, post Saturn return, Chiron initiating me by crossing through my Aries stelliums.

A lot of tenderness that I wasn't even conscious of or paying attention to.

From the way that my own individuality was treated as a weapon to others.

My whole life is brought to the surface and I'm like, still is my Chiron in cancer here anyways.

I'm still so deep in healing and recovering from that.

So yeah, and then yeah, there's this other theme that was coming up earlier that I was really grateful started to resurface as I was swirling around with these thoughts of you being almost post Chiron return.

And this feeling of coming off all these Chiron and Aries natives are about to come off the river roof.

Like fuck.

Yeah, that's cool.

There's a lot of you.

Because Chiron spends the longest time in Aries by a lot than any other sign.

So there's a lot of people on the planet your age completing a cycle of healing right now that are about to step the fuck forward and demonstrate.

Right.

So there's that and then there's this other piece that I was feeling into the thing I was saying slipped my mind and I'm glad it came back.

I think I've talked to you about this before.

This concept of natural guilt that I first came across in one of the Seth books, personal reality.

And it was like so soothing for me because I think this is.

It was so soothing for me to read.

And I think about it often.

I think it was soothing for me and remains soothing for me because I think it really holds a lot of the wisdom of Aries.

And in this period where my own access to that like invigorating, no bars hold, no holes barred Aries commitment to me and integrity as it is individuated in me in the now as that part of me that is my nature is currently tender because of where I am in my life and the transits, et cetera, et cetera.

This concept of natural guilt has been a really helpful anchor for me.

And the way that I remember at least that it came through Seth and that it's written about in that book is like you think about animal like coming back to ecosystem consciousness in Aquarius.

You think about animals like they're out there being predators, you know, and they don't feel guilty about it.

They don't have this extra layer of guilt.

But they're also not committing genocide, you know, because they're not repressing their guilt either.

Which is why what it's that unconscious repression that creates this over the top Neptune in Aries.

Like over the top violence, shit, getting Away from myself.

And the sentiment that Seth communicated, as I retained it at least, is like, we don't have to worry about stepping on toes.

And I think about that again, as this transition from Pisces to Aries of, like, when you're so connected to oneness and source and you understand yourself as a fragment, as part of that, that then you can look at your own capacity, your own needs, your own sacral response, you know, your own closed aura protection, whatever it is, like your own body's cues of what's right for you and when and how and what's not right for you and when and how and what doesn't.

Doesn't resonate.

You stop seeing that as outside of what's best for this collective ecosystem consciousness grid, and you start understanding it as.

As you start understanding your own boundaries and needs and sensibilities.

And subjectivity is a part of that.

This is also the Aquarius Leo axis.

Right.

Which is going to be a big part of this year.

We're about to have an Aquarius Leo eclipse, and then shortly the nodes move into that axis.

So, yeah, it just made me feel into this theme of natural guilt too.

Like, when you trust yourself because you understand yourself as an extension of God, then there's a lot more capacity to really embody that through not fawning, through not lying to yourself and others in pursuit of this facade of connection, this facade of security.

So, yeah, my mind is like, tie it back to Neptune in Aries, but it just is that somehow.

Yeah, I hate.

I have to jump off here in a second, so I probably shouldn't even open this can of worms, but.

But.

There is a. Yeah, like a large portion of young Gen X finishing that.

Aries, Chiron Transit, who.

You know, we all have Pluto in Libra, and so a large portion of the.

The quintessential people pleasers are really stepping in, like healing that wound of being themselves and setting boundaries and, you know, doing what they want and showing up how they want.

And I do think that that will have a big impact on the kind of grid, you know, know, kind of the collective consciousness.

I do have to hop off.

I have an appointment.

Cool.

Does this feel?

I think so.

Good.

Yeah, I think it feels.

Yeah, it feels, it feels.

I mean, I won't be shutting up on this topic here for a minute, so we can definitely pick this conversation up further.

No, this feels good or whatever.

Sure.

Yeah.

Come back.

Cool.

Thanks, Jess.

Thank you so much for having me.

Sa.