[00:00:00] Ross: Hi there, and a very warm welcome to Season five, episode 14 of People Soup. It's Ross McIntosh here.

[00:00:06] Ross: What would you describe as your, your personal values in your illustration work? I think you've touched on them, but I just like to tease them out a little bit

[00:00:14] Lou: more.

[00:00:15] Lou: I think, like you said, love, I think there's a lot of love that goes into it, but I think like you said, connection and community, obviously creativity. Yeah. I guess compassion. I hope that kind of comes through, you know, in one communicating and things. Um, fun and humor. I hope as

[00:00:34] Ross: well. Yeah. I think that they all shine through and I love that you, your first value is love.

[00:00:41] Ross: Yeah. Just to say. Take virtual hug for that. I think it's amazing what you're

[00:00:46] Lou: doing.

[00:00:47] Ross: P supers. This episode is revisiting a favorite conversation with a favorite person. Yes, I've delved into the people's soup archives. And I wanted to share with you my chat with Luke gardener, my act, auntie your act ante, our inspiration

[00:01:04] Ross: people Soup is an award-winning podcast where we share evidence-based behavioral science. Particularly from contextual behavioral science in a way that's practical, accessible, and fun to help you glow to work a bit more often. Peace Soup is, this episode is an encore revisiting a favorite from the People Soup Archives, and it's a classic with lots of personal meaning for me and many others. There's much for us all to learn from Lou through her personal values and what she role modeled for us. All her impact in supporting others through her art continues, even though she's no longer with us and her light shines bright.

[00:01:59] Ross: Lou, I [00:02:00] miss you and I think of you. Every time I see a blackbird in our garden, which is pretty darned often,

[00:02:05] Ross: what I'm doing through people, Sabre's trying to take a stand for what's possible at work and show people how they can build that possibility for themselves.

[00:02:14] Ross: For me, what Lou illustrates and role models for us in this chat is her creative connection with our values, which gave her direct. And she also showed us the way she relates to her old friend anxiety whilst courageously pursuing her purpose.

[00:02:28] Ross: Let's just scoot over to the news desk for reviews are in for part two of my chat with Gabriela Brown, Lisa Ingham on Twitter said, thank you for another great two. I love the title and yes, we can't just leave part of who we are at the office door. So resonant and relevant for where we are right now

[00:02:46] Ross: and again on Twitter. Helen McGilvray said, just had a listen to this on the drive home. Look forward to reading the book. I was told at nursing uni not to get emotional And I remember thinking ek, I still hear these beliefs being carried by people in the workplace today.

[00:03:02] Ross: Thank you, Gabriela. Indeed. Thank you Gabriela. And thanks to everyone who listened, rated and reviewed. Talked about it with a friend. Recommended the podcast because with your help, we can reach more people with str. That could be useful, But for now, get Aru on and have a listen to a special Encore With Lou Gardner, my act. Dante, your act. Dante, our act. Dante,

[00:03:26] Ross: Hey P it's. I am virtually here. I wish I was there, but I am virtually here with Louise Gardner also known as act auntie Lou Louise act, auntie, welcome to people soup.

[00:03:46] Lou: Hi Ross. Thank you very much for inviting me on your

[00:03:48] Ross: show. Um, I'm delighted you, you were willing to join us. I thank you very much. Now you'll probably be used to the format.

[00:03:56] Ross: I just want to start the waves with a summary of what my research department have [00:04:00] gleaned about you. You just absorbed this and see what you think. Uh, they may not have got everything, right? First of all, they've noticed that you hung out with some right groovy people, and these include dandelion, some pirates who are apparently from Mars.

[00:04:15] Ross: Big bass Prairie dogs, Yetis, mermaids, and seals by me. So, so that's all true. Is it? I did. It's true. Crikey. Sometimes you have to have been seen wearing Bonnie yes. And true, and making reference to carrots as well. I'm guilty. And I have personally witnessed this you're wearing bunny ears whilst cutting shapes.

[00:04:45] Ross: On the dance floor

[00:04:46] Lou: and I think you may have borrowed. So while you were cutting shapes,

[00:04:51] Ross: um, I'm just hoping against hope. Yeah. I suspect if anyone's listening who was there, they might unfortunately, um, Provide that

[00:05:03] Lou: I think I may have video evidence.

[00:05:07] Ross: Right? We can talk about terms for non release of that off Mike.

[00:05:12] Ross: Um, what I noticed Louise about you is I met you for the first time and. Dublin. Yeah. Although we'd been buddies on Twitter for a while before that, and they were says, I'm waving my arms around peace shippers. I'm not sure why, but there was this instant connection and warmth from you. And this is really something quite beautiful.

[00:05:32] Ross: Like to thank you for that, that, that, that, that you bring that to, uh, human interaction

[00:05:39] Lou: right back at you. I feel completely the same.

[00:05:41] Ross: And I'd also like to acknowledge your value of generosity. We're going to get into your art in a bit more detail, but you share so much of it for. In the act world and for the act practitioners and those interested with such generosity, I'd like to just do a big woo hoo.

[00:05:58] Ross: That I'm not going to chat to [00:06:00] proper way, because it'll probably go off the mic scale. But thank you. Thank you. Another value I've spotted is courage.

[00:06:11] Lou: Hope inside a bit.

[00:06:12] Ross: Yes. And why have I spotted this? I think my best example is hearing that you, you went on an expedition recently and you cycled your bike, Margarets your bike Margret's to the station, manage the perils of trying to lock up your bike when there were no bike racks, and then traveled to meet our friend, Mary, who, who took you open water?

[00:06:38] Ross: That's

[00:06:38] Lou: right? Yes. That was definitely committed. Action.

[00:06:42] Ross: Limey. Tell me, tell me a bit, don't worry about that. That was like, was it a sea? Was a Lake, was it?

[00:06:49] Lou: It's a Marine pool? So it's sea water that comes in and then just stays in this pool. So I think it was minus four degrees. So Mary is amazing. She she's swarmed the chattel.

[00:07:01] Lou: So she is she's so inspirational. Anyway. Um, yeah, I thought we were meeting for coffee and she said, I thought we could go swimming in the sea. It was like, what, everything in my body and my. Literally straight away was like, no, thank you. She was loud. I know you'll love it. And I just thought, you know, what if I did that, I'd be so chuffed with myself.

[00:07:20] Lou: That would be a real achievement to do that because I'm actually not a good, very Gregor too, about I'm scared of, I don't like the cold, everything about it was like resistance. And I thought, you know what? And I'd been reading up that acting that week about willingness speaker switch that's either on or off there's no in between.

[00:07:38] Lou: Um, and I just thought. You know what, maybe I should just do it. Yeah. And so I did, yeah, it was very, very cold there, but it was an amazing experience. That sense of accomplishment of actually achieving something afterwards. It was a real buzz until Mary said. The next 10 minutes after you've got out of the most dangerous it's like[00:08:00]

[00:08:02] Ross: blimey. Thank you for giving us such a beautiful example of, of willingness that and, and values led action. I love it. Yeah.

[00:08:10] Lou: I think, I think each of those little things, cause each time I think there was, I think as Mary was saying, like, once you've done that, when you do something else, you think, you know, if I did that, I can do this.

[00:08:18] Lou: And I think it does build that little memory bank of resilience. I think.

[00:08:24] Ross: Sorry. So when's your next open water swap?

[00:08:28] Lou: I will definitely do it again. Definitely will. Yeah,

[00:08:31] Ross: I think, I think Mary will persuade you. Yes, I think so. The last bit of my research department, they said, Oh, they sent, they thought that in a sort of political way, Louise might not want to turn up on your little podcast now because she's actually appeared recently on the British broadcasting corporation.

[00:08:53] Ross: Brackets in a radio interview,

[00:08:57] Lou: he has entered the defend again. Literally my first interview was a live radio interview, so that was pretty scary, but using my skills, I made room

[00:09:09] Ross: brilliant. So, yeah, I thought it was fantastic.

[00:09:14] Lou: Thank you again. My inner critic had lots to say about it, but yes, I could thank it for its helpful advice.

[00:09:24] Ross: Yeah. My inner critic was going look at you with a tin pot mic and yeah. And your dodgy headphones. That's hard. They like, yeah. BBC Somerset, but, um, I've got, I've had, I think now that's, that's what my research department have gleaned. And we'll put the link to your, if we may, to your BBC summit interview as well in the show notes.

[00:09:43] Ross: So the way you, I wonder if you'd like to just introduce yourself a bit to the piece supers, tell us a bit about what you do, how you got into art and give us a bit of a flavor of what's gotten you to where you are.

[00:09:56] Lou: Now, um, well, I've been a freelance illustrator [00:10:00] for just over 28 years. Mainly in the children's book industry also did comics and food packaging and toy packaging and stationary and things over the years, as well as it has been a really lovely, um, industry to work in, but I'd always had struggles with anxiety.

[00:10:15] Lou: And was always looking for something to help me get rid of it. That'd be lying. The problem. I've tried to get rid of it. And I listened to a podcast called not another anxiety show and they mentioned a happiness trap on there, but I thought I'll just Google it. And it came up with Russ's online course.

[00:10:34] Lou: Um, and so I did that and I just found it life-changing it was. So helpful and because it was so visual, I just want it to draw everything. And so that's what started me getting into doing drawing with acts and things as well. But yeah, I've always been creative. That's probably one of my favorite values.

[00:10:53] Lou: Literally. Don't remember not drawing my dad was a printer. And so he used to bring home loads of paper. So I was always drawing and things. So yeah, it was. Kind of like always be the love of my life. So

[00:11:03] Ross: yeah, really. Oh, that's wonderful to hear. And, and, and you talk about Russ, like first name terms, like, Hey, so just for our PCPs who aren't sure that is, I can confirm it's Russ Harris.

[00:11:15] Ross: Yeah. Yes. Sorry. Yes. Yes.

[00:11:20] Lou: Well, yeah, I was very lucky. Lots of posts. So basically I did the course just. I find it so helpful and that he had a Facebook support group for everyone who done the course. And so I think at the beginning it was just trying to remember all the skills and now it doesn't seem like a lot, but just remembering those core processes and just like, well, what am I not using?

[00:11:39] Lou: What my, what my I've forgotten. And so I just drew a little visual map of a little character walking through the processes of like the eight weeks. And it was for me to put on my wall really just to remind myself every day. And I posted it in the Facebook group to see if people might find it. Helpful as well.

[00:11:55] Lou: And the feedback was just so amazing. You know, people would be really supportive and say they were going to print [00:12:00] it out and things. And Russ is really generous with his time. He's always in the group anyway, you know, helping people out and he saw them and got in contact and, and said, you know, he really liked it.

[00:12:10] Lou: And he'd like to commission me to do maps for the eight week course. So that was. Obviously a during job to do. Um, so yeah, so each week has got a little visual walkthrough. So when people have finished it, they've just got like something quickly. Look at it. And just as a little refresher of all the skills that they've learned, because there's a lot of information there.

[00:12:28] Lou: Isn't.

[00:12:28] Ross: Wow. I love, I love hearing this story of how you came upon the core suit. Through the podcast. Yes. Yeah. It's such a great

[00:12:37] Lou: medium. Yes. Oh my gosh. No, absolutely. Yeah. It's so connecting and I, yeah, I can, to a lot of podcasts, I love a

[00:12:44] Ross: podcast, almost respect to Russ Harris, who was one of the primary leaders in getting act out there too.

[00:12:52] Ross: To people it's phenomenal. The work he does. The first book I read in on act was the happiness trap.

[00:12:58] Lou: Like you said, I think for so many people, that is how they discover right through Russ's work. And then I just was so enthusiastic about it. I just thought, how does more people not know about this? Cause whenever I tell people about it, no one had heard about it.

[00:13:09] Lou: I might just look on this is so important. This is so helpful. I could just see, I could help so many people. And then cause I was boring friends talking about it so much sort of said, well, you know, could you teach it? And I thought. Could I teach it? I don't know. It was just like, as soon as that had kind of got in my mind, and then I saw that Russ was coming too.

[00:13:27] Lou: So that was September, 2017. I did the course. Um, and then he was coming to London in July, 2018 to do act made simple and like for trauma workshops. So I did those. And then since then I've done some more training in Birmingham and. Um, Bristol, um, with Louis Hayes and Joe Oliver and yeah, I just kind of can't get enough of it and I'm hopefully going to be doing life coaching next year in using act.

[00:13:52] Lou: So, yeah.

[00:13:53] Ross: Oh, wonderful. Do you mean you as, as the coach?

[00:13:56] Lou: Yes. Yes. So I've been working with a friend, who's a coach, and we've [00:14:00] got another little project as well that we're hoping to roll out maybe in 2020 with group coaching and that as well. So, Oh,

[00:14:06] Ross: blimey that's that's phenomenal. I'm so delighted to hear that.

[00:14:10] Ross: I think coaching is an area where act just fits so well.

[00:14:14] Lou: Well, I just feel so passionate about it and just whatever, you know, there's, I don't know, just being able to pass on the information and help other people that might be feeling stuck. Cause I think for me, that's the whole thing. I think a lot of people, when you struggle with anxiety, you think you take it so personally and think you're broken or weak and it's so not that you are just stuck.

[00:14:32] Lou: And most of us just haven't been given the skills. And I think once you've got the skills. I mean, that can just be transformative.

[00:14:39] Ross: Thank you so much for your openness. I think I certainly resonate with that as a, sometimes I still feel like that very anxious child.

[00:14:47] Lou: Yes. We talked about that. Yeah.

[00:14:50] Lou: I think giving yourself a hard time for that. And I think, you know, the compassion element of act, you know, um, you know, CFT has been so helpful as well because I was super hard on myself and just learning those. Self-compassion skills, you know, and, and that common humanity, I think that's one of the things I love about act as well, that people, you know, share their experiences and you see all these amazing inspirational people.

[00:15:12] Lou: Who've had their own stories, you know, with anxiety and you're thinking, you know, wow, if these people are doing that, you know that you can do all these amazing things and still have anxious feelings because that's part of being human. And that is true.

[00:15:27] Ross: I love the way you describe this. Cause yeah, it's, it's about.

[00:15:31] Ross: We're doing this. Now you put your work out there in a way, this is us putting a collaborative piece of work out there and it's not without anxiety

[00:15:41] Lou: doing that. Yeah, absolutely. Like you said, my mind was telling me all of the things this morning or the strip things I was going to say and that, and like you said, but it's making room for those.

[00:15:48] Lou: And like you said, diffusion skills and, you know, noticing those stories and naming them and naming the body sensation for like is said in the. Following our values. And that's what gets you moving is actually something [00:16:00] bigger than those feelings, something more important than those feelings?

[00:16:04] Ross: Yeah. I think what we've both got is this desire to share this further, to help more people discover this behavioral science.

[00:16:12] Lou: Absolutely. Cause I think, I mean, it really is. Self-help has it once you've got the skills or they it's like having a little toolkit. They're never going to go away, you know, it's just practicing and using them and, you know, it's just so valuable. I mean, I really do think if you're taught at school would be life-changing.

[00:16:30] Ross: Yeah. And that is getting into schools now and they ended up quite exciting ways. So, crikey. Yeah.

[00:16:38] Lou: Yeah, that would be amazing. And like you said, I think there is so much more of that people talking about emotions and, you know, people being a lot more open and like you said, you know, I think if you were maybe brought up to see, you know, like to suppress emotions, that certain emotions are bad and that then you obviously are going to, you know, set that with, you know, feelings of guilt or shame and stuff and things, and like just having that healthier, open conversation about, you know, all, all feelings.

[00:16:59] Lou: Welcome.

[00:17:00] Ross: Yeah. Love that. And can I take, take you back just a little bit to when you were a child, you said your, your dad was a printer and just doing loads of paper home. So what were you drawing in those first days?

[00:17:16] Lou: Probably not very different to the things that I've probably carried on drawing. Lots of little people, characters, lots of.

[00:17:22] Lou: Cute animals. I think like just making it my own little stories. Um, cause my dad used to print books. He actually used to print a Guinness book of records and he used to print, they used to print like children's books sometimes as well. So I had quite a lot of children's books and to me that was just kind of escape.

[00:17:39] Lou: And I think just, I just love those kinds of. Other little worlds, you know, that you can just make up anything and you just can create that any world that you want. So I think just being able to draw that as well. Yeah. Just, I think, you know, no lucky enough to load lots of illustrators and children's book writers.

[00:17:55] Lou: And I think we all have that common thing of as children, we all had that kind of fantasy [00:18:00] world where you just scape and make up stories, either writing them or drawing them. Yeah.

[00:18:04] Ross: Oh, isn't that, isn't that wonderful that, that you could pursue that.

[00:18:07] Lou: Yes. Yes. So, so lucky. Yeah. Yeah. I think when I was younger, I kind of didn't really think about it as being an option.

[00:18:14] Lou: I, I did a sort of general art and design course, but I don't think I, even then it was just my, kind of what I loved most, but not with a kind of end goal in mind. And then I had a fantastic tutor there who said, you know, you do know you could go on and do a degree. And I was like, really forced about doing that.

[00:18:28] Lou: And then I did a. Uh, cool. Um, in Wolverhampton, which is actually the title of it is actually very fits with what I'm doing now, which was visual communication. So it was graphic design, photography, and illustration, and I specialized in illustration. And then when I left, I went off to London to seek favor for two, but you know, to look for work, cause all publishers were pretty much based in London then.

[00:18:53] Lou: Pre-internet cause I'm that old. Um, you, uh, you literally physically, you know, seeing publishers with your portfolio, which was brilliant. I mean, great to meet so many amazing people. Yeah. And hoping that somebody would pick up your work and give you a job. And I was lucky enough to. Yeah. Yeah. I think one of my first jobs was with BBC play days back as enjoying daily, the dinosaur.

[00:19:15] Ross: Do you see that dinosaur? Oh, have you got any archival clips? Wicked put on them?

[00:19:20] Lou: I might have some words going back a bit, but yeah, maybe. Um, but yeah, so then it was just, yeah, so I do feel very blessed to have been, you know, working in this industry for so long. So.

[00:19:31] Ross: Uh, and when I listened to your appearance on BBC Somerset, I heard mention of pingo.

[00:19:38] Ross: Yes,

[00:19:39] Lou: yes. I used to, yeah. I was going to say they all the children's magazines, then they still do treaties Pingu and Nadi and things. So yeah. I used to do little stories for them and things and that as well. So yeah, it was fun times

[00:19:51] Ross: when you were a kid, did you enter like art competitions and stuff? Oh

[00:19:55] Lou: really?

[00:19:56] Lou: I was quite shy. I think so. No, not that I, [00:20:00] yeah, I kind of, I schooled and things in that. We'd kind of do things, you know, they'd have a thing where you designed the school Christmas card or that kind of thing maybe, but

[00:20:08] Ross: not, not really Louisa, so excited to hear how your career developed because. I often talk to people in coaching or in team settings and talk about creativity and adults are so quick to go, Oh, well I'm not creative.

[00:20:24] Lou: Yes. I think everybody is creative. And like you said, when people would say, well, I couldn't do what you're doing, but I always say is just practice on people. Absolutely can do it, you know, and it doesn't have to be in that medium. And it's just that expression. I think all arts, you know, dancing, singing, painting, drawing, photography, you know, everybody's got a creative outlet.

[00:20:44] Lou: Mm, and I think that's so

[00:20:46] Ross: important. I think what we often fail to recognize or, or emit from our consideration of being creative. Is that at practice? Yes.

[00:20:57] Lou: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

[00:20:59] Ross: It's not like you woke up one day with a pencil. I thought, Hey, I ain't going to be an illustrator. This is hours and days and months, and years and years of practice

[00:21:12] Lou: as.

[00:21:12] Lou: You, like you said, if you're going to play a piano or something, none of us are going to be good. Well, I don't think I'd ever be good at that, but like you said, it is just putting in, but, you know, so it's having the enjoyment, like wanting that end thing. But I think, like you said, lots of people do, you know, like the coloring in books and stuff and things.

[00:21:28] Lou: It doesn't have to be, you know, I think there's still so much pleasure. In that moment, you know, choosing covers or, you know, whatever it is, or, you know, there's so many creative outlets, you know, baking and cooking and creative, you know, like just creating something from nothing almost, you know, that is, I think

[00:21:48] Ross: it's a, quite a profound human thing to do this.

[00:21:52] Ross: Yeah.

[00:21:52] Lou: And I think it's one of the, I mean, it's such a unique human thing, isn't it? I think. Yeah. And the best of, you know, society, when you look [00:22:00] at like, The time is where human beings have actually managed to not fuck everything up jumpy, but like society is what, you know, they were about, you know, theater and sports and painting and singing and dancing.

[00:22:11] Lou: It is those creative arts. I think that is so important and very sad. I think that we're kind of losing those in schools. Yeah. Cause I think, you know, there's, I think for mental health and that they are really good. I mean, we need those, you know, they are about pleasure, really. I mean, there are so many things in life that just are about joy expressing pleasure and joining.

[00:22:29] Lou: Like that is what they're about really on their end and sharing love, I guess, you know, like baking and things. I put love into those things or singing a song or writing a poem. I mean, it is an expression of that sounds a bit strange, I guess, but you know, I think those sort of creativity is really. Mm.

[00:22:45] Ross: Yeah, let's get that out yet. What could you do? That's create your today PC as if it's writing a Limerick or making a cake or making cheese on toast. That could be an act

[00:22:57] Lou: of love. Yes. Well, our lovely friend Rose, I mean, she made the me the most amazing embroidery. Quilt. And that was just, I was so touched with, so, you know, to me that was that's love, you know, and it's just like, so all the values of kindness and generosity and love and creativity and not

[00:23:14] Ross: yeah.

[00:23:14] Ross: Hmm. Now, Lou being a P-Souper you'll know that I asked my guests for a song, and this is a song that you'd be happy to use to announce your arrival in all life scenarios for the next few weeks, whether it's you arriving to meet Mary, whether it's you entering. A room to meet friends or whatever. Now I did tell you this in advance.

[00:23:35] Ross: So I don't know if you've had a chance to think about

[00:23:37] Ross: a song

[00:23:38] Lou: I did. I am hoping you will sing. it cos that's my favorite bit of your show.

[00:23:42] Ross: Oh

[00:23:43] Ross: no no pressure then

[00:23:46] Ross: Lou

[00:23:47] Lou: my song is Katy Perry, roar.

[00:23:51] Ross: Oh, you devil.

[00:23:56] Ross: Right. Um, and can I ask before I try and drag [00:24:00] through my memory network,

[00:24:02] Lou: You'll have to drop

[00:24:02] Lou: that back

[00:24:03] Lou: in with you singing along

[00:24:04] Ross: No, no, I'm going to give it a go right now. Um, why this one?

[00:24:08] Lou: Um, for

[00:24:08] Lou: me, it kind of, I guess, sums up two things. I think how ACT has impacted my life, because for me, it's been really empowering.

[00:24:16] Lou: That's the word I use a lot, but I think with my work, you know, I want it to help empower other people. Cause it does feel like it's given my life back on lots of levels. I think. So it feels almost like a new improved me. So it's that kind of thing of like wanting to live life to the full and like. saying you know, here I am and being brave, I think that kind of tiger is courageous.

[00:24:36] Lou: I think, you know, for a lot of times I was more like a little, little mouse, but I still love that little mouse, but it's in my top pocket, but I think, you know, that kind of tiger. But I think with some of the stuff that I've learned about with CFT, we have, uh, you know, those compassionate kind of companions and there's like a fierce protector.

[00:24:52] Lou: And for me, that...this kind of like sums up that as well. That kind of fierce protective side

[00:24:56] Ross: So are you going to join me in having a go here? Okay. Let me think. I want to check. I've got the right one first. Uh, ah ah ah is that, does it go something, has

[00:25:07] Ross: it got that? in it

[00:25:10] Lou: We're probably not allowed to play it I'm

[00:25:10] Ross: not, I'm never really sure. I normally I think no one's going to Sue me for thinking I'm gonna

[00:25:15] Lou: I

[00:25:15] Lou: would offer to, to sing it but my singing voice is probably not anything anyone

[00:25:19] Lou: wants to hear. Well,

[00:25:21] Lou: maybe that will be my next committed action. Yeah. Oh I did go to I do go to a singing group So that is committed action.

[00:25:28] Ross: Well secrets out I feel a Christmas album coming on.

[00:25:33] Lou: Oh my

[00:25:33] Lou: gosh. I think that sounds good.

[00:25:35] Ross: What do you think

[00:25:35] Lou: ACT for Christmas

[00:25:37] Ross: reason act

[00:25:38] Ross: for Christmas, right?

[00:25:39] Ross: When, when are we um,

[00:25:42] Lou: like,

[00:25:42] Lou: it'd be

[00:25:42] Lou: like,

[00:25:42] Lou: Live Aid

[00:25:43] Ross: Oh my gosh,

[00:25:48] Lou: we've got plenty. Yeah. We've got a lot of guests. I think you should do that. Oh, can you imagine that we could get them all together? Like on a massive group, zoom, we could all do a Live Aid style [00:26:00] You've got to do

[00:26:00] Lou: that now. You've said it.

[00:26:01] Ross: Wait that'll have to be for next Christmas. I think just reigning in our ambition slightly, but I think we are the world.

[00:26:10] Ross: We are the children. Cause I always want to put my hand on my ear like that.

[00:26:19] Ross: Now P supers, it may have come as a surprise that I couldn't quite nail the song and the recording session for this podcast. Katy Perry is not high on my playlist for this year. So I'm now going to present a little part of it to you. And I think there's a message for us all here. And I'd like to dedicate this to my friend, Lou.

[00:26:39] Ross: Right to PC because I am ready as I'll ever be. So let me just have a sip of tea.

[00:26:46] Ross: That's correct.

[00:26:53] Ross: I used to back by turn and hold my breath, schedule, rock the boat and make a medicine. So I sit quietly agree, polite easily. I guess that I got, I had a choice. I let you push me past the breaking point and it stood for not attending with them. You held me down, but I got up, Oh, Randy, brushing off the dust and my boys.

[00:27:22] Ross: Lock down the guard and to shake the ground, but I get it where it goes. I see it all. I see it now. The, uh, yeah,

[00:27:38] Ross: yeah, yeah. Yeah.[00:28:00]

[00:28:06] Ross: yeah, go.

[00:28:13] Ross: like a bit. I earned my stripes. I went from GP to my IRO

[00:28:24] Ross: peacekeepers. You hear my voice? You hear that sound. It's like funder, it's going to shake the ground enough of this. Let's go back to my conversation with Louise. Thank you. Thank you for that. And I know always imagine that song with you. Yes.

[00:28:41] Ross: I think we're not doing something that is my, kind of like, I put it on when I'm doing something that like, come on, we can do this.

[00:28:48] Lou: Um,

[00:28:50] Ross: so I think, let me, as you said, your first act related illustration was the. Illustrating the eight-week course. Yes. And is that, is that the first one you put out there as well?

[00:29:04] Lou: Well, it was, yeah. So that first little walkthrough one, I think that was the first one that I put out. And then I obviously started working on RAICES, but then that didn't kind of come out to a later trying to think what the first one was.

[00:29:15] Lou: I think I did like a compassion one. There was a lovely quote at Alicia Goldstein quotes. It was a bear and bunny. Uh, sat on a log. I going to get a complete wrong, but it's like, if we just all put our hand on our heart for a moment, it was be a moment. Well spent. It it's be right, but it was so I did that and I think I did the beat one about how we try to suppress thoughts and feelings and they'll just come back and.

[00:29:39] Lou: Me in the face. Um, and then I think I started working on the animation stuff. Cause a friend who was very kindly contacted me and said sense. You want to see this program? I think that'd be great for your work that you're putting out. Um, yeah, in fact, this program, so I could start animating like some of my drawings and things.

[00:29:57] Lou: And I think maybe I didn't have one of the first ones. [00:30:00] I think when I discovered RFT. That just brought us so much together for me that it was just like such a huge aha moment. And I kind of had this mind map of this illustration I wanted to do. So that was a real labor of love. I think, creating that one.

[00:30:14] Lou: I think that was one of the things I'm most proud of that I've produced act dancey. And the feedback for that is just. Been amazing. I think it's something like 12,000 views or something crazy at the moment. So

[00:30:25] Ross: crikey, so that's the RFT at Australia animation? Yes. Animation. Sorry.

[00:30:30] Lou: Yeah. So I think it's about eight minutes long, something like that, but just like very simple walk through of kind of.

[00:30:37] Lou: Well, RFT is a very simple version I have to say,

[00:30:41] Ross: but look how you're making that accessible. And for those of you who aren't sure what RFT is, it's, it's called relational frame theory and that underpins act. Yeah, it's traditionally seen as, Oh my gosh. RFT is too difficult for me. Yes.

[00:30:55] Lou: And it was just, for me, it was just seeing how we create these thought patterns and just realize that there's no undo button and, you know, and how we can get caught up in it.

[00:31:05] Lou: You know, it can be so sticky, but. You know, having that self as context, you know, being able to step away from it and you know, and that self-compassion of knowing it's not your fault, you know, all that information that we, when we're younger than we take on board is, you know, in our repertoire, you know, like you said, of when we're stressed or scared, you know, we probably always go back to those automatic thoughts, you know, those inner critic, thoughts and things, and it's

[00:31:25] Ross: really that act and T approach it's got that simplicity and warmth.

[00:31:29] Ross: But it's really informative and I'm not surprised it's at 12,000 views. Hopefully we'll get some more because people will want to go on and look at it. Yeah. What would you describe as your, your personal values in your illustration work? I think you've touched on them, but I just like to tease them out a little bit

[00:31:45] Lou: more.

[00:31:46] Lou: I think, like you said, love, I think there's a lot of love that goes into it, but I think like you said, connection and community, obviously creativity. Yeah. I guess compassion. I hope that kind of [00:32:00] comes through, you know, in one communicating and things. Um, fun and humor. I hope as

[00:32:05] Ross: well. Yeah. I think that they all shine through and I love that you, your first value is love.

[00:32:12] Ross: Yeah. Just to say. Take virtual hug for that. I think it's amazing what you're

[00:32:17] Lou: doing. And I think that's the thing that everyone, I meet all the experts as I like to call them, you know, that is full is that passion, but it is love. It's so much care for people, you know, and wanting to help people know. So that it always feels, you know, it feels like such an amazing community.

[00:32:35] Lou: Okay.

[00:32:35] Ross: And we talked about putting, putting our stuff out yo stuff or DEO stuff, whatever, out there as a courageous act. Is there anything that gets in the way as you're thinking, right. I've done this illustration and I'm going to share

[00:32:47] Lou: it. I think there is, there's always that kind of self doubt, I think when you put anything out, you know, cause it is very personal, isn't it?

[00:32:53] Lou: You're obviously thinking what are the people going to think? They're sort of, you know, they're going to be judging me, which, you know, the human mind is always gonna be judging so they will be judged. But I think like you said, as long as you feel that you're offering something, you know, of worth, hopefully, you know, you know, like even if one person finds some value in it, you know, like you said of just trying to get communicate.

[00:33:12] Lou: I the about act and stuff that if just one person finds it useful and goes on, you know, to help change their life for the better by using it, then, you know, that's incredible. I think if we were just trying to spread this message and spread it out, that's the important thing I think. But yes, definitely do have those in a critical, I think.

[00:33:30] Lou: You know, like I said, I think I say normal, like I said, I'm very lucky to know lots of super talented illustrators whose work a lot of it. I would just never be able to compare to. And I know they have the same thoughts that they look on Instagram and other artists and things why even bother. And you're like, well, how are you thinking?

[00:33:46] Lou: But I think we all have that, you know, think that maybe that's what motivates us to keep trying to keep improving as well. So it's not a bad thing. You know, if we thought we were super great, we'd never challenge ourselves to improve. Sorry, just

[00:33:58] Ross: to hear about all the [00:34:00] learning you've done since coming across act as well.

[00:34:02] Ross: And also the, for me that the simplicity of an illustration can convey really complex messages in a way that 10 pages of text cards. Um,

[00:34:12] Lou: and yeah, and I think that's what I hope there's not a lot, you know, I think sometimes when people are feeling very anxious or depressed, it can feel overwhelming to read a book.

[00:34:20] Lou: You know, and I think sometimes, maybe just that a little picture or something might just make that little connection to maybe want them to read a bit more or just to have that, you know, make it a little bit more lighthearted things as well. But yeah, I'm an avid reader. That's one of my passions. I've got a ridiculous my books, like I said, when I discovered that it was just, yeah, my act library is quite big, but yeah, I just, it's so fascinating.

[00:34:44] Lou: I just love reading all the new research and, you know, people's. Takes on it. You know, there's always something new that you think, wow, I hadn't thought about that. Or just a fun way that someone's communicated something. Yeah.

[00:34:54] Ross: Sometimes it's just, what I love about your work is that sometimes it's just the perspective for me, it's the perspective and, uh, that distilling down and in a really accessible and simple way that is like blimey.

[00:35:10] Ross: Because I think we can hide behind words sometimes.

[00:35:14] Lou: Yes. And I think with like academia as well, is those, that kind of thing with papers to make them almost as wordy as possible. I think sometimes it loses that essence and loses a lot of audience who probably think that isn't for me. And there's so much helpful information in there.

[00:35:29] Lou: Um, so like you said, it's just trying to get out to a wider audience as possible. Isn't it. And thinking to make it an enjoyable experience to learn

[00:35:37] Ross: peacekeepers, don't be alarmed because we will put, uh, links to Louise's presence on various different websites and social media channels and shops, and the show notes for this.

[00:35:51] Ross: So you can go and add Maya, appreciate learn from Louise's generosity and her work. And also. By some stuff [00:36:00] I saw, I saw a tweet recently where you can have a hand drawn, personalized

[00:36:04] Lou: print, some like Christmas prints of that yet I've got a little red bubble shop now because people were asking whether they could buy it on things.

[00:36:11] Lou: I have done some things that you can buy on t-shirts and mugs and things. If you. So wished wow. But yeah, and I've been lucky enough as well to be working with some experts on their books as well. So I've got five books that are coming out. Well, not my books, but books that I've been lucky enough to collaborate with authors on all coming out in 2020 as well.

[00:36:32] Lou: So

[00:36:33] Ross: let me five books get you.

[00:36:36] Lou: Could I mention some off, they say, well, what are the myths just come out actually, which is this one, which is, uh, the act work book for teens with OCD, which is Patricia is me to own a, I hope I've pronounced her Patricia's name. Right? Dr.

[00:36:51] Ross: Z. Oh, crikey. I didn't realize you'd done the

[00:36:54] Lou: illustrations.

[00:36:55] Lou: Yeah. And then I'm working on, uh, your anxiety, beast, and you with Dr. Eric Goodman. Which has been super, super fun to work on. Um, um, mindfulness and acceptance workbook for self esteem, a practical guide to build self compassion. And self-acceptance with Dr. Joe Oliver and Dr. Richard Bennett, um, and the little depression workbook and the little anxiety work.

[00:37:18] Lou: But with, uh, Dr. Michael Sinclair. Wow for all our super lovely friends. So that has been a joy to work with everybody. They will. I'm super excited for them to come out for the general public because they are going to be all going to be amazing books, I think all going to be so helpful. So I'd be lucky enough to see some of the content and yeah, I'm just thinking, wow.

[00:37:38] Lou: I would have loved to have read these books. I will be reading them, but what I was struggling and looking for something so perfect.

[00:37:46] Ross: Yeah. Ah, I D I didn't realize there was this depth of engagement with the act spurts.

[00:37:53] Lou: I think we'd just be really lucky. Cause like you said, I think we just, you know, like you said, that lovely kind of Twitter kind of community going on.

[00:37:59] Lou: [00:38:00] And I think having, like you said, meeting people at Dublin and Bristol and that as well as being. Yeah.

[00:38:07] Ross: Now I've got a question. Do you have any idea what your most popular work has been? Because I think we've had the animation, the RFT animation. Is there a. A static image that you think, Oh, that's been mega popular.

[00:38:20] Ross: That's really resonated.

[00:38:21] Lou: Um, I think the little app map the walkthrough, I think people have found that really helpful. And I had, um, someone saying that they've used it in their workshops and used it as a mindfulness coloring in at the same time. So people could take it away. But yeah, I've had such lovely feedback because I've got an art group for like people who are using the artwork and I've had so many therapists saying they're using it in session or giving it to their clients.

[00:38:43] Lou: To take away at the end and things. And I've had some people from the NHS saying they framed them up and, and things like that. And I've had amazing people translate them. So there's been loads of different translations now and stuff. Wow. Look at

[00:38:54] the

[00:38:54] Ross: look at the

[00:38:54] Lou: impact you've made to feel super lucky. I just.

[00:38:58] Lou: It just feels so rewarding. Cause I think like you said, it is that when I know Steve Hayes said that, you know, turning pain into purpose, you know, it's this, the anxiety, which for so many years I saw as a kind of burden, you know, it's actually been a kind of turning point to discover this amazing thing, to be able to combine the art and act.

[00:39:15] Lou: It's like two things I feel so passionate about. So it fills a joy to be able to do it. And then to be part of this amazing community. You know, that has been so welcoming and kind to me and, you know, and then to hear that that's actually helping people. Yeah.

[00:39:30] Ross: And I'd just like to say it ain't just luck.

[00:39:38] Ross: So Luigi, you know, I like to ask my guests for a takeaway. Is there anything you would like to put out there for our PCPs who are listening that maybe they could try or just reflect

[00:39:48] Lou: on? I think for me, it's just learning through act that you're not broken. You are just stuck and the act can help you get unstuck.

[00:39:56] Lou: Um, and it's never too late. You can always learn new [00:40:00] skills and you can change and grow and evolve and you don't have to just survive. You can thrive. Well, I think that's what helps you do.

[00:40:07] Ross: Wow. Wow. You can make your stuff. It's great to hear you say that. And it's also great to hear you say it's never too late.

[00:40:15] Ross: Yeah. I resonate with that so much. Cause that's one of my unhelpful,

[00:40:21] Lou: me too. That it's still, like you said that it's, I've left it too. Late. Stories are allowed one. Yeah, he's the best might be yet to come. Who knows?

[00:40:31] Ross: Wow. Thank you so much for coming on the show. I I'm so grateful for your generosity, your, what you share your openness and.

[00:40:42] Ross: You're just a beautiful human beings. I thank you for coming on the show and thank you for the role of song as well. Uh, which kind of threw me

[00:40:55] Ross: any final thoughts from you.

[00:40:57] Lou: Well, yesterday I saw a quote by Dennis Church, which I think kind of really ties in really well with that song guy chosen. Um, and his quote was when you take your life back from anxiety, in a sense you take back your whole world. This life is yours. If you want it. And the cost is feeling your fear and taking action, no matter what, take back your world and live deeply.

[00:41:18] Lou: And for me at skills shows you how to feel your fear. You're not tolerating it, you know, it's not just tolerating it at schools. We'll show you how. To take that fear with you and to, you know, learn about values, to know how to go out into the world and create a life that you love. Wow. Thank

[00:41:37] Ross: you. Thank you so much again, let me thank you.

[00:41:40] Lou: Thank you, Ross. It's been a pleasure

[00:41:42] Ross: that's it. Pea supers in the bag. It's so lovely to hear Lou again. Thanks Henny. My invitation to you PC is, is to share what you loved about this episode. You can let me know on the socials or [00:42:00] drop me an email or even a voice note on WhatsApp. If you like this episode of the podcast, please, could you do three things? Number one, share it with one other person. Number two, subscribe to the podcast and give us a five star review. Whatever platform you're on, and particularly if you're on Apple Podcasts, the Apple charts are really important in the podcast industry.

[00:42:22] Ross: And number three, share the heck out of it on the socials. This will all help us reach more people with stuff that could be. I'd love to hear from you and you can get in touch at people soup dot pod gmail.com. On Twitter, we are at People Soup Pod on Instagram at People dot Soup.

[00:42:38] Ross: And on Facebook we are at People Soup Pod. thanks to Andy Klan for his Spoon Magic. And Alex Engelberg for his vocal. Most of all, dear listener, thanks to you. Look after yourselves. Peace supers and bye for now. Because I could quickly find it for you if you like.

[00:42:58] Ross: Yeah. Come on

[00:43:00] Lou: one second. So you can do your warm it up.

[00:43:03] Ross: Oh, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me

[00:43:11] Ross: tapping away now. Uh, I can't just get a handle on how it starts. You're going to

[00:43:20] Lou: hear, is that gonna be too loud?

[00:43:27] Ross: I'm hearing jungle noise.