was funny.

I was thinking about,

something that happened

earlier on this year, and

there's a big part of me

that's thinking, holy shit,

this year has flown past.

And then there's a part

of me that's like, holy

shit, that was a long

time ago, wasn't it?

, and then you get to

January, February, March,

next year, and you're like,

we're already in March.

Really much.

Yeah, it's bizarre.

I don't know, everyone

has that feeling.

And it's probably

not just in the

construction industry.

Hey, um, how have you

found this year, Matt?

been a very

interesting year.

I was probably

looking back.

If I went back through

my notes from last year,

I was very concerned

about this year.

So we had a number of

projects last year that

were meant to go to

site and didn't go to

site and dropped off.

Probably had something very

similar again this year.

Just, it's very obvious

that there's still issues

within the industry

around pricing and people

being scared projects not

meeting brief and budget.

I think it's maybe we've

also got a lot harder and

more comfortable with the

conversation around that.

Those 2 don't meet.

So I think there's also,

we're getting more leads

than we've ever had, but

the ones that get through

a very well validated.

, reckon I agree with that.

I understand where

the industry is at.

So I probably look back at

last year's thoughts and

thought, Hey, that's what I

thought this year would be.

I'm going to be very half

glass, half full here.

And I'm very concerned for

next year at some point,

but I also, whilst I'm very

concerned for next year's

in the building industry,

I also think there's

a lot of opportunity.

And I think as our

industry, we're just

going to have to pivot.

There's going to be huge

changes to our industry

next year as builders

with the VBA changing

under one banner.

There's probably going

to be insurance changes.

How that looks like.

We can probably look at New

South Wales and Queensland,

but there's going to be

big changes for us as

builders in a positive way.

this year, this year's

been challenging.

I won't lie.

Like we haven't had

as many projects

start as we wanted to.

We had two to three

projects all meant to

start mid year that

just got delayed.

Two of them due to our

good friends at Cancel.

So we did have

challenges with that.

But I got to start

my own house.

That's a huge positive.

how about yourself?

Before I answer that

question, if you're

listening to this, which

I think is going to be

towards the end of this

calendar year, so you would

have finished off for the

year and you would have

had Christmas and hopefully

you're enjoying some time

away from work with family

and friends and you're

a little bit relaxed.

If you're still standing

now at the end of this

year, I think you need to

give yourself a massive

fucking pat on the back

because , Sanctum Homes

has turned 10 this year,

which is pretty incredible.

I've actually

forgot to celebrate

that, 10 this year.

Thank you.

And I look back on the

last three or four years.

So that COVID period, , and

I think that COVID was

challenging, but if I'm

being honest with you

all, I actually think

this year's probably

been the most challenging

for me personally.

2, 832 construction

companies went

insolvent during the

last financial year.

So going on your point

of being here is very,

a very big thing.

if you are listening,

and if you did decide to

close your doors in your

business, right, don't

feel bad about that.

That's a, I I think that's

in some cases a really

good choice, I think

it's a really challenging

industry to be in.

And if you decided that

it's not the path that

you want to take, then

fucking power to you.

That's awesome.

But if you're standing here

at the end of the year and

you think to yourself, I'd

like to have been a little

bit more profitable, but if

you're still made a little

bit of profit, then give

yourself a big fucking pat

on the back because that

is incredible because our

industry at this point in

time is very challenging.

Now given the

circumstances, I think

we've been Really

successful this year.

Is it how I'd

imagined it to be?

Absolutely not, but I've

kind of recalibrated my

brain of where I wanted to

be at the end of the year.

And I'm really

proud of myself.

The middle of the year was

really, really challenging

for me personally.

I had a total of five

houses that we handed over.

One of them was a

two unit development.

And that was all in

an eight week period.

We were actually then

staring down the barrel

of projects actually

not being signed up

yet after these ones.

And that was due to, we had

five projects fall off from

Christmas last year through

to the middle of the year.

It's scary, hey?

It's so

scary.

these projects that we're

dealing with, we gave our

first round of costing

probably late 2022.

And that's, it's took,

it taken us that long

to then go through

council, get updated

documentation and get

revised costings together.

Now, during that time,

we'd seen whatever

percentage of building

costs increase and the

projects just didn't become

viable for the clients.

And we totally

understood that.

That's fine.

We get it.

But it does, it make

it really difficult

for us to plan.

So that's probably been

the biggest challenge

for us this year.

tough, hey?

Like, you're kind of trying

to hold these spots, you're

trying to shift them,

you're trying to be like,

mm, I think it's going

to start in November,

but actually probably

more realistically, it's

going to be January on,

but what if they want

to come forward and then

all of a sudden, that

project's not viable,

it's way over budget.

It's such a hard thing.

And then they want

to start then.

Bang, let's start now.

it's really difficult.

So I mean, if there

are clients out there

listening, it's really

challenging at the moment

to actually plan where

you're, when your project's

going to start, think we

do a really great job of

communicating this to our

clients throughout the

pre construction phase

my biggest philosophy

is if you don't plan,

you're planning to fail.

Even if we know that

that time slot or

whatever is going to be

moving, at least it's

on your construction

program somewhere.

we have still had some

projects that we knew

were going to get to site.

That were really positive

and we'd gone through

costings and we're just

finalizing documentation.

And thankfully they dropped

for us, which was awesome.

but you know what, by

the time this podcast is

aired, we would have signed

another three contracts

before the end of the year.

And we're also looking

at another two to three

to sign in the first

quarter next year.

Yeah, that's good.

That's strong.

a lot better than where

I'm at at the moment.

our pipeline is really

strong the projects

that dropped off and

the new projects that

have now come through.

I feel that clients

expectations on costs

has been recalibrated

to the new normal.

So, you know, when we

start talking about,

very high level.

Cost per square meter.

I don't want to

go into that.

It's a whole other bloody

topic, but clients are

understanding of that.

And they, like,

they get it.

They understand that

they're going to be

spending more than

they were hoping to

spend two years ago.

But yeah, this year has

been very challenging.

Probably, Probably

one of my hardest

years in business,

if I'm being honest.

Yeah, and the challenge

is we kind of saw them

coming, but they're

still unexpected.

So those projects dropping

off, it really plays

with your mental health.

And it's just like

this rollercoaster.

And I find that when

everything happens,

it happens at once.

So all the shit news

happens in a three,

four week period.

And then all the

good news comes five,

six weeks later.

just up and down,

up and down.

And you're just like,

there's no stat,

there's no stability.

I feel being a

builder at the moment.

And I spoke about recently

being involved and being

involved, but they're

two different things and

you've got to be really,

I think you're going to

have to be really, really

involved to keep that

project on, on budget.

And it's something that's

actually we're completely

flipping about flipping our

pre con pricing structure

at the moment and how we're

going to estimate a job.

Um, It's something

that I've got in

the back of my head.

We're sort of playing

with it right now, but I

think just what everyone's

been doing for the last

few years is everyone's

getting involved in this

pre con phase, but then are

they doing it or they just

are they doing it because

everyone else is doing it

or they're doing it because

they actually know what

they're talking about.

And now this is a huge

oversaturation of everyone

doing the same thing and

I think sometimes when

people talk about their

numbers and stuff , they're

not educated themselves

enough on the numbers or

they don't know how to

talk about the numbers,

then they get lost.

But let's remove ourselves

in some of the, maybe

the negative things.

Is there anything like

a good skill or habit

you developed this year

that you're just like

running with for next year

totally.

Um, my cadence with

my psychologist is

about every four weeks.

And it's interesting,

one four week session,

I'd be high as a kite.

The second one,

I'd be really low.

And the thing that

really helped me

through, this year.

Was her words in my ear

saying, Hey, you know what?

You've got this, you've

been through this before.

What's the worst case

scenario and how do

you feel about that?

And know that it's not

going to get there and

know that you're going to

be a lot closer to a more

positive outcome than a

really negative outcome.

there was another moment

too my office at my house.

It's a little work site

office that I've got

away from the house.

I remember passing

my wife on down the

driveway and during

a pretty intense day.

freaky time where we were

really, we had projects

that were getting handed

over and we, waiting to

get some contracts signed.

And I kind of just made

a comment saying, don't

want you to stress.

And she turned around

to me and said, I'm

not stressed at all.

I know you've got this.

You've always made it

through this stuff before,

and you thrive in these

kinds of situations.

And it was actually the

words that I needed to

hear at that particular

moment in time that just

gave me the confidence

to just go right, I do

fucking have this and

we're gonna make it work.

I think you said, Oh,

at some point, I think

you've spoken about it

on this podcast, but.

it's a, that never ending

game within mental health.

Like you hit a new

level and you got

to keep going again.

You got to keep

going again.

Is that sort of what

you've been doing?

You just, you've got

this huge arsenal of

weapons behind you to

throw out some issues.

have you just realized

to use them better and

now you just become

more aware of them?

So therefore you go again.

Yeah, I'm gonna answer that

question in maybe a little

bit of a roundabout way.

And I think I've talked

about this before.

I actually think that the

biggest thing that has

held me together the most

this year is the little

training group that I have

that come to my home and

train anywhere between

three to four times a week.

And now this works for me.

I'm not saying that

everyone needs to do

this, but this was the

one thing in my life

that was consistent all

year that was really

predictable for me.

I knew that I'd train and

at the end of that training

session, I would feel good.

Really simple

equation for me.

Now those little pep

ups, three to four

times a week allowed me

to then face the day.

even if I knew I had a

shit day ahead of me.

So that's one thing.

It was the exercise,

but it was also the

connections that I had

with these people as well.

So it's all men in

this group and we're

all middle aged.

I can't believe I'm

saying I'm middle aged,

but I am north of 40 now.

Uh, Don't laugh, Matt.

You know, we're middle

aged men with careers and

we're business owners and

family and we've got kids

and all that kind of stuff.

But we get really

vulnerable with each other

and we're really deep.

We connect on a deep

emotional level with

each other and we

support each other.

And it might be one week

that my mate's sitting

there talking about how

hard it is that he's now

a single dad and he's,

, things really are really

hard or it might be that

I'm really struggling

because I really need to

get a contract signed,

but it's actually talking

about it and verbalizing

it and then know that

I've got these people

in my fucking corner

to support me through

with whatever happens,

celebrate the highs or,

be there sitting next

to me and supporting

me when shit is low.

this is probably a really

good segue onto one thing

I want to talk about and

it's called relationships.

one of the biggest things

that I've learned this

year I've already known

this, that our competitors

are not our competitors,

they're friends.

We have an awesome group of

builders that we surround

ourselves with and have

a great chat with, a

little text message group.

The one thing that I've

learned, and it's probably

one thing that I'm going

to encourage anyone,

whether you're a building

designer, an architect, a

builder, create yourself

a group with people

that are like minded.

That you can lean on.

So hypothetically,

architect, surround

yourself with a big

group of architects and

get to know each other

very, very well and start

to share information.

It's probably been

one of the biggest

things for me this year

getting through it.

Like, so many times that

I've had to call one

of those people in that

group to get advice.

Like, we don't

know everything.

Um, we're totally

okay with that.

, the relationships that

I've built and built

on further are really

gonna help me long term.

what you think on that

group, because I think

it's really, really

important that, people

reach out

it's kind of almost the

same vibe, isn't it?

And, And I know Sven talked

about this when we had

him on a few podcasts ago.

If you haven't listened

to it, definitely

check it out.

It's awesome.

Just creating those

connections with people.

We as human beings

need connection.

we thrive off

other human beings.

that group's incredible

because we've actually

got such a broad range

of builders in there.

And we're also open with

the challenges that we're

having and the successes

that we're having.

And

we, I know at the moment

we're sort of helping

one of the members

of that group through

a tricky situation.

I know you, me, Brad

have been chatting with

this person individually

and, really helping them

through a tricky stage.

And I know from her mouth.

that it's been so

incredibly beneficial

for her knowing that

she's got the support.

And do you know what, we

might not be solving the

problems for her, but the

fact that they know that

we've got, that, that

they've got a the support

of other people who have

been through certain stuff

has been so important.

Yeah, it's the ability for

them to vent, and something

that the other people in

the group can understand.

Like, I can talk to my wife

about all these things,

but when I want to talk

on a building level, while

she understands it, she

does her best to, like,

really understand it, and

she's super switched on.

But sometimes it's just

issues that I can't talk

to anyone else other

than a builder, because

they just don't get it.

And you know what, on

that, like your significant

other, they get a lot

of you all the time.

And it's almost unfair to

be dumping so much of that

stuff on them all the time,

because, okay, I know in

my situation, my wife he

works, we've got two young

kids, we've got a dog,

we've got a household to

take care of together.

She doesn't need all the

bullshit that I go through

in my life every day.

She's certainly there for

support, but she doesn't

need that mental load.

She's got her own.

, 100%.

not that I'm hiding

it, I'd rather not put

that burden on because

I can tell you about it.

It's not going to

stress you out because

you're like, I've

been through that.

I know what happens here.

Where I'm maybe still

in that unknown and

I don't want to have

that unknown on her.

think in summary, if I was

to kind of look back at

this year and think of how

I've got through it, it

is definitely with support

of all my peers, whether

that be my wife and family.

whether that be our group

or whether that be, you

know, my training group.

Without all of them,

all or any of them, I

probably wouldn't be

sitting here with a

glass half full kind of

mentality into next year.

100%.

Like, I know that we're

going to be fine next year.

I know that we're doing

things that are different,

that we're putting

ourselves out there.

We're not quiet

about certain things.

And that, and naturally,

it's like, if you care,

it's generally going

to pay off for you,

no matter what you do.

And if you go, if you

really take the effort to

do more and be better and

learn, it naturally comes.

I personally believe,

and again, this is just

my opinion, that there

is a whole bunch of

latent demand that's just

sitting there waiting.

And I think, again,

my opinion, I know

nothing about nothing.

I know, I know a lot

of things about a lot

of things, but I'm not

an expert on anything

except high performance

times, allegedly.

I think if we see an

interest rate drop

next year and we have a

little bit of consumer

confidence come back

into, general living,

we're going to see a big

uptick in construction,

across the board.

I think that whilst

there's going to be huge

changes to the industry

from regulation point in

Victoria, that's going to

be positive, especially if

it comes at the same time

as an interest rate drop.

Because it's going

to get rid of the

people, which is fine.

And it also takes the

stress off people's

bank accounts.

And the hardest ones

to define, we're

finding to get the

site, which is probably

the U is that is once

between 800, 000 and 1.

2.

It's a really difficult

spot to be in because

it's a lot of money.

I agree.

just on the money thing,

know everyone's got

their expectations of

their ideal project and

their ideal clients.

I think maybe cast

the net a bit further.

I don't know.

We've been doing it from

a geography point of

view is casting a net

a little bit further.

And we're actually looking

at projects that may or may

not generally be typical to

what we would normally do.

Now there's a couple

of big things for us

that we still look for.

Got to have great

relationships

with our clients.

That's really

important for me.

They also need to be

priced really well.

So if it's a 200, 000

job or it's a 4 million

project, we still want

to price it really well.

So we know that my business

is going to be profitable.

I think, people don't

understand that the

business and the project

needs to be profitable.

And I think that's

something that gets really

it's a really big pet

hate of mine because at

the end of the day what

we're doing is a business.

reality is they

need to make money.

Otherwise you become

that statistic.

I think it's a very

valid point you make.

If a builder goes broke,

trust me when I say the

homeowner does not win.

Anything but like there is

only a certain percentage

that the home warranty

insurance covers So you

will be out of pocket.

You want your builder

to be making a profit

Playing themselves and the

company making a profit.

It needs to be a win for

the client It needs to be

a win for the architect.

It needs to be a win

for the builder That's

how you should be

thinking about the

success of your project.

100%.

yeah, 100%.

I couldn't, I honestly

couldn't agree

more.

I think people are going to

need to be really creative

with their marketing next

year to make a noise.

I think we've seen

some reasonably similar

marketing campaigns that

have been coming out across

the industry at the moment.

And I think that's fine.

I think things go in waves,

but I, my opinion, and I've

been thinking about this.

Is how do we get that

edge, that diff, that

point of difference.

And I challenge everyone

listening right now to

really think about it

while you're sitting down,

having that Negroni or

beer or, or peeps normal

over the Christmas break

about how are you going

to get your message out

to people this year?

That is different to

the person next to you.

And I know you

and I, talked about,

competition about how

we try and market,

and that's fun.

Cause I love it.

I'm really curious to

see and excited to see

how people position

themselves next year.

Yeah.

I think marketing, it's a

huge point of difference.

Maybe I'm biased cause

that's what my life does.

So I, and I do get a

leg up with some ideas

and stuff like that.

I think again it comes

down to being creative

and you've got to do

something different.

You can't just like,

there's a lot of the

same stuff going on and a

lot of copying going on.

You've got to really think

outside the square on

you can get your message

across that what we do

is different and what

we're doing is better.

I've already got a whole

list of things written

down on what we're

going to do and approach

things in a completely

different way.

Let's face it with, the

copying stuff, right?

We've all copied before.

We've All

taken an idea

from someone and

all

somewhere.

yeah.

somewhere.

Nothing's a hundred percent

unique, but, um, I'm

really excited to see how.

Everyone next year

positions themselves in

the market and gets the

message out to tell people

how they do things, why

they're different, why

they should be chosen.

Like, I'm excited

to see that.

I think the copying

needs to come from other

industries, not within

industry we have ourselves.

I think that's probably

where I refer to copying

is that you've got to

look at what other people

are potentially doing

in other industries like

Coke or, I know it's

just an example because

I've got a can of Coke

sitting in front of me,

but something like that,

like what are they doing

that you could somehow

twist to work for you?

That's probably

what

I mean of, yeah,

there was a podcast small

business, big marketing.

And every single time

I listened to one

of those episodes.

I got something out of it.

It was not related

to building at all.

I'm like, oh,

that's a great idea.

That's a really great idea.

Thinking outside the box.

But my take on

next year is this.

I think it's still going

to have its challenges.

Like every year

has its challenges.

What's your biggest

challenge going to be

next year you think?

I think it's going to be

a similar to this year and

I think cost is going to

be a big challenge still.

I think cost is still going

to be a big challenge.

I 100 percent agree.

I think it's just getting,

I think it's introducing

that confidence back around

cost and I'd say we're

probably both lucky we're

a year ahead of maybe

everyone and confident with

those things where we're

very confident to have

that conversation straight

up around cost and we've

got some tools that we

know not many other people

use and we haven't really

shared them with you with

anyone but we know that

people are going to start

to find these tools and

utilize them but it's then

that's going from there.

We are all the sum of

all our experiences,

right?

So we've got through COVID.

We've got through the

last couple of years,

which have been tricky.

become more resilient to

things as they come at us.

Right.

I think I couldn't have

done this year without

the experience of going

through COVID the couple of

years before.

I'd actually love to do

an episode one day on what

if COVID didn't happen.

What's it?

Yeah, I see.

a really interesting point.

I never thought about it,

but this is sort of goes

back to a point I was

saying before, if you're

listening to this today

and you're sitting down

and you're still here and

you're kind of happy where

you're at and you've got

work coming up next year,

that's really positive.

This is a really

great thing.

Use all your experience

in the last four years

to know, you know what, I

fucking got this and next

year, yes, there's going

to have its challenges.

I'm pretty confident

that next year is

going to be, is going

to have more rainbows,

I think the anxiety

might start to dwindle

off a little bit

around that industry.

And that's what I'd

be very, very happy

if it happened.

it has a, there's

a bit of a stigma

around, some of the big

players going bankrupt.

I think that

stabilizes some of

those bigger players,

It

doesn't affect

what we do though.

different industry though.

it's still permeates

through though.

I mean, the fact

that Metricon's now

being bought out.

I think it's a really

great stabilizer

for the industry.

And I know there's some

other volume builders

who have also had some

investments into them.

Now, again, I can't speak

too much to it cause I

don't know enough about

it, but my opinion is when

you've got confidence over

there, That confidence then

spreads into our market.

So, so these volume

builders that are still

here now, they can ride

a few more waves before

they're going to crash

and burn, which I think

is a positive thing.

And hopefully in the

next two to three years,

we're going to see things

stabilize even more.

I don't think we

see prices drop off.

That's one thing I

don't think happens.

I think that they stay

around where they are

and they just continue

on the inflation road

like previous to COVID.

don't disagree with that.

I'd like to think that

maybe it might get a little

bit more competitive, but,

um, I don't, I don't

see it drastically

dropping off.

It's not dropping the

50 percent and it's

gone

Nah.

Oh, fuck no.

Oh, hell no.

No, no, no, no,

no, not at all.

Not at all.

But do you have any

big challenges that you

personally will think

you'll face next year?

Like it is in like,

not just about work.

Is there any difficult,

like is there things

that are gonna be

exciting for you

Yeah, I mean, like,

personally, we've

got some really great

positive things happening.

You know, I've got, my,

my youngest Phoenix.

He has recently been

diagnosed with autism

which is a really positive

thing for us because now

we're armed with some

really amazing tools

to help him through,

Potential challenges.

we've got a planning

permit up for our barn,

which is super exciting.

advertising

comes off today.

Oh, so how do we reject it?

No one can listen to

this and reject it?

It's

too late to go on by then?

Oh, please don't reject it.

Have you had any

rejections so far?

Do you know?

No, no.

We've got some

really great names.

think next year is going

to have its challenges

like every year, but, um,

I'm, I'm pretty excited

about 2025 and I'm so

excited about what you

and I are planning for the

mindful builder podcast.

Yeah, I think we've

got some We're going

to be doing some things

very differently.

We're getting a studio.

Okay.

We're gonna be cool.

So we're gonna do

these in person now.

We're gonna head to a

lot more video content

where Hamish and I have

been discussing YouTube

and utilizing YouTube.

So, what that looks like

at the moment, we're gonna

catch up post Christmas

and have a good chat.

One thing I will ask

if you do have a very,

very interesting project

that you would like

to be filmed, please

reach out and they

need to be different.

They just can't be, hey,

we're wrapping a house

and installing a window,

like we want them quirky.

They need, we want details

that are not traditional.

So please, if you have

something that you think is

different to anything else

and I'll use, for example,

my retrofit rifle project,

that's what we're after.

That's the type of project

we want something that

doesn't have to be a

Passive House, by the way.

it just needs to fit the

building better category.

And we, we'd love to

hear from you and get

out and do some filming,

some type of videos,

and just get you to walk

through the project and

explain what you're doing.

We want to build

this community.

And we want to provide

better building advice,

but also keep linking

back to that mental

health side of things.

I know Hamish and I

have got some work to do

on our why about this.

Um, we've got some

collaborators we're hoping

to bring along, so it's not

just going to be listening

to us two all the time.

some crowd

favorites, some crowd

favorites.

yeah, we can't tell you

who they are yet but we're

doing some things that

we're really going to grow.

And I'm super excited.

I think if we look back,

like we've been told we're

in the top 5 percent of

podcasts in Australia

for what we're doing

here, which is awesome.

I think that's something

that we need to

stop and appreciate.

I think we've got about

10, 000 plus unique

listeners, which is

really, really cool too.

I think we've just ticked

over more than 20, 000

downloads, which is pretty

Yeah.

So I think that's something

that we didn't expect this

to be where it is today.

And we've had amazing

feedback from people.

A lot.

Just being like, even just

being stopped by people on

it, on somewhere be like,

Oh, I love the podcast or

I get a message or a call.

I know that means a

lot to both of us and

it's something that

we've both love doing.

For me, it's actually a

bit of a mental health

release where I just get

to stop and not worry

about work so much, but I

do want to do some things

differently next year

and we do want to bring

this to wider audience.

. Yeah.

We are looking for sponsors

if anyone's interested

in sponsoring us too.

We've already got a

few that are going to

be jumping on board.

But the whole idea is just

to blow this up and make

this a massive educational

source around multiple

points of our industry.

and if you want to

collaborate, we are 100

percent keen to have a chat

because I think, you know,

it's not just me and Maddy

trying to push this out.

Like we're, we're nothing

without the community.

So if you've got a

cool idea or a business

or, uh, whatever.

And it's sort of on that

same thought process

of building better,

being better we'd love

to hear more about it.

we're going to get some

pretty cool things.

Like, I've already been

sort of speaking to some

people in the background of

some projects we can go to.

And these are

very different.

They're cool.

Like they're way above

what even I'm going

to, I'm going to be

potentially out of my

depth and understanding

some of these projects.

So they're definitely

things that I've never

even seen before.

So super happy, whether

it's a prefabrication or

a different system like

mud, bricks or straw,

just tell us, let us know.

We want to know about

these projects because

we'd love to get out

there and make it part

of what we're producing.

But Look, there's going

to be big changes for

both of us next year.

Our businesses are going

to continue to grow.

We're going to continue

to push boundaries.

We're going to continue

to be honest and

transparent with what

we do and continue

to talk about mental

health and education.

That's probably where

we're going to be

at home, I think.

Good man.

Yeah, and uh, for all

you people planning a

big New Year's, be safe

and look after yourself.

have a great Christmas,

holiday, whatever you do.

Got one last question

for you though.

How do you think you're

going to step outside your

comfort zone next year?

How am I going to

step outside of my

comfort zone next year?

I was about to say I want

to do much, a lot more

public speaking, which

I know you and I've got

some stuff in the mix,

but I don't, it's not

really stepping outside

of my comfort zone.

I'm actually working

on some stuff with a

new psychologist at

the moment, which is

stepping me outside of

my comfort zone.

I'm really hoping to

continue to work on that

because it's taken me

to some, things that I,

I never thought were a

problem, but I think it's

sort of shaped me who I

am now and, Why I show

up to some situations

in certain ways, which

is really interesting.

So I think understanding

me, stepping outside of my

comfort zone a little bit.

And I know I'm pretty in,

tune with myself, but, um,

this is different, which

is quite exciting and a

bit scary at the same time.

What about you?

I'm going to be a dad.

The, so,

, holy dude.

Holy

we're

expecting middle of

next year which is

really, really cool.

we're about 10

weeks at the moment.

So the time this goes

to air, we would've

told everyone.

We still haven't actually

told too many people.

We're still waiting

to catch up with a

lot of people and we

know that this will

be post-Christmas.

So by that time,

it'll be a very common

knowledge to people.

I would've told everyone

that I needed to tell.

So we're super,

super excited that

that's gonna happen.

So there's a lot for

me to learn, a lot

for me to juggle.

I'm definitely gonna be

out of my comfort zone.

We have to do a little

daddy's corner and

I'll be picking your

brain for advice.

But that's something

that we're both super,

super excited for.

I can't wait.

don't want to give

advice, right?

But I just want to tell

them, tell you a really

quick story about when we

first had our first child.

The best thing that Lucy

and I did before Darcy

was born is that we went

and saw my psychologist

together and had a session

together to talk about,

what was going to happen.

Now, my psychologist at

the time was she knew a lot

about postnatal depression,

which is really, really

valuable, I think for

everybody to understand.

And then we had a

session with her

after Darcy was born.

And I still remember both

of those sessions really

vividly and the best bit of

information that I got told

from Lisa was you're going

to go to work and you're

going to be really busy.

And you're going to come

home, and the dishes

might not be done, and

the washing might not

be done, and the house

might be a mess, and you

might need to cook dinner.

And what you also need to

understand is that your

wife or partner, whoever's

the primary caregiver

is working 24 seven.

So you might've gone

down a 10 hour day, 10

hour day at work, but

that primary caregiver

is working 24 seven.

So don't expect all

those things to be

done because you are

part of that as a team.

Oh, and that's something

that I'm totally

aware of already.

Like I know that we're

going to be learning a lot

very fast, very quickly.

We're lucky that like a lot

of our friends and family

have already had kids.

We've got a lot of

people to bounce off.

And we understand that

what will work for us might

not work for other people.

What's worth other people

might not work for us.

Man, I'm so fucking

excited for you.

so pumped.

so,

One thing that I've always

wanted to do is work my

way to four day weeks

once I have Children.

Um, think that's really,

really important to

I want to be there.

I want to be around.

I understand there's gonna

be days where I need to

work longer and work more

and things like that.

And that's the nature

of having a business.

And, I understand that

I don't get paternity

leave like everyone else,

that you get a few days

here and there and you've

got to make it work,

but it's a flexibility,

long time is the benefit

that we get essentially

is running a business.

So, I think that's

something that I will

probably learn to

juggle and work around.

massive congratulations.

I'm so excited

about.

What is ahead of you?

The being a dad and

being a parent, is just

something that, I feel

incredibly grateful that

I've had the opportunity

to be a dad.

yeah.

And, I'm super

excited for 2025.

I'm pumped.

It's a new opportunity.

It's a good reset.

It's actually one

tip I can give.

It's probably a

bit too late now.

One of the biggest tips

I can give to anyone.

Tell everyone you're

coming back a week later

than you actually are.

Just give us your

first week of the

year just to settle

in, do some planning.

Time to yourself to really

think through the year

and plan out the year.

It's one of the best

things that I do that I

always come back a week

early and don't, well, I

just don't answer people's

calls and tell everyone

I'm back a week later.

It's one thing that really

helps me get through

the year and start, so

that's a really good,

a really good point.

But but thanks

this year, Hayne.

I've really enjoyed

what we've done.

, but have a, great break.

You too, buddy.

We'll chat soon.

See you mate.

Bye.