You are listening to the we need to Talk About Oscar podcast and this is our conversation with Scott Siracusano, cinematographer of Contrast Freak, now streaming on Hulu.

If I am able to move the camera fast enough in these danger zones that you would see with the mirrors, you know, that would avoid you seeing any crew or being able to discern anything in the background.

But you also are positioning the mirrors and their angles in the right way where you're not just seeing the straight up to the ceiling where it's obvious we're trying to hide something down on the floor.

Control Freak, the feature length exploration of the 2021 short film you shot titled Control, which was a part of Hulu's Bite Size Halloween.

The director is shell and go for both.

Obviously, it's his film made from his script, but as we know, filmmaking is a.

It's a team effort.

However, I'd like to ask, since this is your first feature as the DP yourself, did you have any specific personal goals you set for yourself when taking on this project?

Yeah, personal, professional goals of this is just to tell the best story possible.

You know, ultimately, I think my role as a cinematographer first and foremost is to be an advisor to the director.

You know, Shall.

This has been his brainchild since, you know, when he called me back in 2021 for the short and seeing this kind of grow into what it is, you know, I wanted to make sure that was maintaining the essence of, like, what he was trying to say, you know, with this.

If you've watched the short, you'll know this is kind of like a big little bit of a jump, you know, from where the short was.

The short goes more into the psychological side of things with Kelly's character, Val, and focusing on this true story about this woman who had this insatiable itch in the back of her head that she was unable or unwilling to get medical attention after almost a year.

You know, that's when they discovered that she had itched a hole through her skull.

So with the feature building on top of that and having a creature element of it, I really wanted to make sure that first and foremost, maintaining Shadow's vision, but ultimately doing things that really kind of push the boundaries, you know, everything that I have gathered, knowledge wise up until this point, I wanted to wait, you know, before shooting my first feature until it was with someone that I felt was, you know, understood me as an artist, but also was a script that challenged me creatively.

It wasn't something where, you know, I was going into it kind of Just like, okay, I'm not, you know, I'm doing things I've already done before.

I want to do something that really kind of pushed boundaries.

And so personal goals was something where it was more focused on growth.

But most importantly, of course, telling the story that Shao had.

Does this mean that you actually turned down features before this one?

Because it didn't feel right?

That's correct, yeah.

When I first got out of college, I remember I was slated to shoot a feature and you know, I was very like, you know, of course, starry eyed as we all are.

Dream come true.

Yes.

Yeah.

Hollywood, baby.

You know, like, I was so stoked.

And I remember like at the time it was like, I think the budget was like 100k or something.

And like they were like, we have a red package and a two ton truck.

And I was like, whoa, that's awesome.

And you know, a friend of mine who had graduated or had left college like two years prior to my graduation, I got coffee of him.

Isaiah Dante Lee's a wonderful cinematographer.

He him and I got coffee and he basically was like, listen, like, if you are passionate about, you know, what you're shooting here, like, do it.

You know, obviously you should, but your first feature only comes once, you know, and it's like right now, like, if you're telling me like you have no doubts about the story, you have no doubts about the resources you have, do it, man.

But honestly, like, if you do have reservations, like you're young.

I was like 23 at the time.

Like you're young.

Take time.

Take whatever time you need to make sure that you have the resources.

Not, of course, like, you know, just the physical resources, like, you know, to get the job done, but also mentally, like the knowledge, the knowledge base to actually be able to pull off film.

And he's right, you know, your first feature only comes once.

So I turned down other scripts and projects I didn't feel like were necessarily the right fit for my first leap, you know, into the narrative space.

Yeah.

But at the same time, thinking of the importance of a first feature just puts such an amount of pressure on you.

And it's not that it's something that can be measured or anything like that, but how do you feel how much of this pressure got taken away by working with shall on actually your first feature?

Hmm.

It's funny because it's like there was another project, of course, that I felt like had the same, like it resonated with me.

There is an immense pressure.

Of course I was, I was so nervous, honestly.

Going into this and I'm not gonna sit here and be like, oh yeah, I was like stoic the whole time because it's not true.

Of course.

Who wouldn't be?

You know, we're all human at the end of the day.

So yeah, I, I, it was very nerve wracking going into this.

But yeah, the pressure that Xiao was able to alleviate.

We had done a, a short prior to this back in 2019 though, with the camera maj.

We shot it in like 2019 and of course, you know, what happened with COVID and everything pushing that back.

So we had known each other years prior to this.

And knowing someone before you step into essentially the trenches and having like a history of them, like, it's, it's amazing, man.

Like, shall truly understood me and I think it was a very interesting working relationship because there were a lot of things where of course, you know, you're always, you know, there's always points of contention, you know, and I, I, I honestly welcome that because a lot of the like, great ideas I feel like can come from those contentions as well.

But alleviating the pressure, like, Xiao was very open and understanding if like, if I had concerns about like, hey, like, listen, like, I know that you wanted to cover the scene in a very specific way, but this location doesn't allow for it.

Or hey, we had something happen where the sun's going to be in the absolute worst position at this time, or hey, we need to focus for Sam Chaps on our ad.

Hey, we have this scene that is the meat and cheese of the day.

Can we cover this other scene with less coverage?

And so he was very open to input from all parties.

And you know, when he knew he wanted to do something though, like, he would stick to his guns, which I always respect in the director.

So having that pressure like alleviated, you know, where it's like, okay, cool, I can be open, transparent with my director is something I always welcome.

And yeah, as for the main idea in the center of the film, the head scratching to me is primarily a very auditory action plus, plus the physical feel of it.

But of course you had to accompany that with the visuals.

So what was your thought process like going into translating those cues that are primarily reliant on other senses of ours into visual storytelling as well.

The first thing is it's funny because it's like the visuals in this are very, they hit, they're very much in your face.

And we wanted to invoke kind of like a feeling of claustrophobia.

We wanted to invoke a feeling where it's like, you know, it's.

It's finding beauty and things that otherwise would not be beautiful, you know, and kind of pushing the viewer into like, you're in here, you're stuck with Val.

You feel just as trapped.

Like, a common theme as well, of like inside the house is like, you know, when she's on stage, she's very open and transparent with people and like, you know, she's showing this other side of her.

But when she's at home, you know, in her sanctuary, she's very closed off, you know, the windows you don't see outside.

You know, we're very like, we want to evoke a feeling of claustrophobia.

Um, so that when you have scenes like the yoga scene where it's like, you know, for when she closes her eyes and she's focusing and the windows open, you know, she's briefly letting the world in and then quickly going back into her cocoon.

So it's kind of fun where it's like, I want to, you know, whether people pick up on that or not, you know, that's the beauty of kind of, you know, things you can try to slide into the story, but not being so overt of like, you know, this is visually what I'm trying to say.

But yeah, that's kind of like was the intention going into it was like, how can we communicate things without being too overtly, you know, communicative, like what we're trying to say visually.

Absolutely.

And yeah, on the pure storytelling side of things, we get to witness the well known pairing or more so this opposition of what the world sees versus what remains hidden both in the lives of celebrities and the most preserved individuals.

Just as well.

So how did that part work out in echoing and heightening this duality?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So we wanted to have in the space like a place where Val could retreat to, you know, and so like the workshop where, you know, she's, you know, working on her little hobbies of like, you know, having the, you know, branding the mirror and doing all this and kind of like looking at her past, you know, in that, you know, the big workshop space, it was very important for us to have a place to kind of retreat to.

But we wanted to have like a contrasting reality that was almost like in a way like somewhat like tongue in cheek, like comical, where, you know, it's very much on the nose of like, you know, the ad that she, she runs that Robbie shoots for her, you know, promoting her tour or, you know, when she's on stage presenting, you know, and actually like in her TED Talk kind of space.

Because the whole thing with this is we want her to kind of appear almost like not necessarily a salesman, but with that TED Talk kind of energy.

It's like she's selling herself as like the product.

But she always has this kind of matter of factness attitude to her where she is really, even with Robbie in her personal life.

She's trying to hide from everyone of like, what is actually going on.

She's unwilling to like, essentially face the music until, you know, of course, the third act when she finally comes to terms.

But it's too late.

You know, we've already crossed the event horizon.

But yeah, it was kind of tough, you know, showing that visually.

Like, how do you communicate that?

But yeah, I think we did like a pretty solid job like overall of like making these worlds feel unique, you know, like her place, like her, like where she lives, like, even the bedroom, it feels like very dreamlike, you know.

And we want to have like a sense of surrealism here where it's like it's baked in reality, but there's something about it where it's like, if you look at an image from this film, we want this like, stand out.

Like, it's something where it's like, I've never personally been in a house, you know, that has like that unique kind of flavor that she had, you know, and it's very specific to her.

So anyway, we wanted to have something where Valk is very separate from the.

Public eye and there is that Hope you'll get what I'm thinking of.

That rather complex, I don't know, upper body wreck, well built above her bed to keep herself from scratching her head.

And yeah, just to put a twist on this, could you tell me about the craziest rig you've ever built or had built and used throughout your career so far?

Oh, my career craziest rig that we've built.

It's hard to say because there are lots of.

I mean, honestly on this one, like we had.

I wouldn't say there's like one thing where I'm like, whoa, this is nuts.

But I would say like on this, like we had more like quantity size on.

On this film.

On Control Freak, we had a lot of rigs like Josh Alarm.

The key grip was just like a bastion of hope, man.

Like, he was like, I would always be like, hey, I kind of want like, what if, like, you know, when her and the Sanchi fall, like, how do we get, like, what if we like Throw the camera down with her.

Like, how do we do that?

But, like, match the speed.

And he found a way to do it.

Like, hey, well, when she's, like, driving back to the storage facility and, you know, she's driving all crazy, like.

And we want to have this stunt drive.

What if we had, like, kind of like a third person camera, kind of like video game, like, and Josh would do that, having the story cam rig and the boat rig.

Like, we had, like, a lot of, like, rigging things that were happening on this film.

Like, pretty much every.

Every single.

Like, it felt like every single day there was always something where we're always kind of leading into it, you know, or leading up into something.

Some big reveal, some big scene.

There was always like, you know, Goliath of the day that we were trying to tackle.

So to narrow it down to one rig is always tough.

And I feel like it's kind of like asking someone, like, you know, if I were to ask, like, hey, what's your favorite movie?

Go.

You know, because it's like, we have done a lot, but I really can't.

It's like choosing a favorite child.

I don't know if I can tell you exactly who's my favorite.

I love them all, but.

But on this film, I have to just.

I got to give love to, you know, to Josh, you know, the mad scientist who made it all happen.

Considering the horror elements in the film, many times, mostly early on in the film, the demon is in the shadows, as in, it is the shadow itself.

Can you talk a little bit about lighting the supernatural elements in the film and.

Yeah, specifically the shadow work that went into it.

Yeah, absolutely.

That was essentially the first thing.

It was like when we were storyboarding this out and looking with Master Effects in Vancouver, it was all, you know, we're all working through zoom with them most of the time and checking in like a few times a week of each other, and they're showing us progress of how the creature's coming along.

And of course, for, you know, it's like budgetary reasons, we were like, we have a full body suit or we have half a body, essentially.

Like, we couldn't, you know, you look at bts, which I'm more than happy to send your way as well, of like the.

The creature itself.

We worked with Master Effects to focus on essentially having a head, forearms, but no lower half.

So right off the bat, it's like, okay, everything that I frame with the monster has to be framed in a way where we don't reveal too much you know, which kind of works thematically because you're also not trying to show too much of the creature until it's the right moment.

So with the lighting aspect of it though, and what during prep, when we're looking at it, it has like, we wanted it to be able to, you know, essentially reflect light and have like, kind of like almost a.

I don't say like wet, but like something where it feels like there's some moisture, you know, on the skin.

But it's a bit of a double edged sword because with the skin itself, it's like if you of course put too much light on it, then it kind of breaks the illusion.

So with every setup where the sanshee was involved, we always had to have essentially like, we wanted to have pockets of light, you know, something where it's like in the background or something where it could slowly find its way into, into the light and reveal itself.

So that caused us, with, you know, a lot of our coverage to be like, okay, we have to be very, very precise in particular about where and when we show this, because if we show too much too soon, then, you know, it kind of ruins the payoff that you get in the later scene.

But we wanted kind of to have like this creeping entity and encapsulate first and foremost, like if you've ever had like any sort of sleep paralysis or anything, you know, and you're looking at something, you're not quite sure if something's there.

I've had many, you know, nights when I was younger where I was like, you know, a kid, where, you know, you wake up in the middle of night and you look and you think you see a shadow and you're not sure which, of course is the bedroom scene.

That was like essentially the main thing we were trying to evoke and having like designated areas where it's like, okay, if you put the head, you know, the right position here, it'll reveal itself in the light, but, you know, if it's off by a little bit, it won't.

So it's like, you know, but we don't want to reveal too much.

We won't be too dark, you know, so it was a lot of like, kind of like a balancing act, you know, where we wanted to make sure that Kelly, of course, was, was lit and, you know, you can see all of her facial expressions and wasn't like, you know, looking at a black screen, of course.

But you also didn't want to show, you know, reveal too much of the creature either.

So every single setup that we had, especially at night.

There's another reason why we leaned more into the moonlight look, because we were like, realistically, like, that's something where there's lots of windows.

We can play a little bit more of the shadows there and kind of lean more into the stylized side of moonlight that you would see, like in, you know, certain horrors of thrillers, which will allow you a little bit more flexibility with, okay, where can we hide the creature, you know, and where can the Sanchi kind of reveal itself?

But going back to the creature as well, I was working with Stanley White Jr.

Was the operator of it.

And so, like I said, it was half body kind of suit and the head was actually controlled.

Like, he would have his arm like this and then his head would essentially hide behind the torso and he would control another arm.

But we had two other puppeteers as well who were on the side.

So anytime the Sanchez on screen, you have Stanley, who's in the suit, controlling it's an animatronic head.

So he had, like, essentially what, like, you know, little things that he could do to make the mouth, like, flap open and all this, which is honestly so cool.

Like, it was so awesome seeing that dude.

Like.

Like seeing that in person and working that.

First and foremost, just break away from the question.

So cool.

That gave us, like, you know, it's tough because it's like, okay, not only am I hiding, you know, you have to hide the creature, you have to hide the two other people that are essentially like, you know, following a round of sticks on the sides of the arms, you know, to operate it.

So with the lighting too, it's also got to be able, you know, to hide them.

But, you know, I'm basically like, you know, getting up there in the monitor, looking at false color to make sure I'm not seeing any operators in the shadows, you know, if, like.

But not making sure nothing drops to zero ire so that you still have shadow data.

So every single time was basically just me shoving my face in the monitor and looking around to make sure Travis, our VFX artist, didn't have another thing to clean up.

But, yeah, long winded answer.

But to answer your question, a bit.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's incredible.

Yeah.

Now that you mentioned what's in the frame and what's not near the end or in the final act, there is that sequence where Kali's character, her valleys surrounded by the mirrors, lit by candles, etc.

What were the technical challenges posed by shooting the scene with multiple reflective surfaces?

Yeah, that was.

That was on day five.

And I'LL never forget that day.

And I don't think the crew will either.

That was, that was, you know, at the tail end of the week, you know, and you know, we're basically just doing a straight overnight there.

The hardest part of that, of course, was the mirrors.

How do we essentially have a sequence where we're essentially going 270 degrees around talent handheld without seeing camera.

So a lot of it was basically Xiao, myself and Sam going there a week prior to principal photography and essentially mapping out and especially on paper and overheads of okay, where can we be?

And based on this angle, what would we see in this mirror and this mirror?

Because here's the thing is like we knew that like if we saw a piece of ourselves in the mirror or if there was something that's like, you know, you caught.

There's so much happening, it's so dark in that space that it'd be so easy to miss.

So we're like, let's just nip this in the button camera so that way we don't have to have poor Travis have to vfx out something, you know, in the mirror.

The hardest part was of course the blocking.

Figuring out like, okay, if she's going from this mirror to this mirror to this mirror, that'll be safe from our background and in the space itself too.

It's like, you know, it doesn't necessarily like super low ceilings, but they weren't super high either.

And so the best way of course to hide this where, you know, you're seeing essentially the whole room, but you have to light it, is, you know, we have to get our light mat 8 above, you know, so that we can get a nice top light.

But where are we going to put the menace arm base?

You know, where are we going to place that?

Because now the mirrors are seeing everywhere.

So we basically had to designate like, okay, based on what this mirror is seeing.

There's a tiny one foot gap between the reflections of where we can hide things, you know, and if I am able to move the camera fast enough in these danger zones that you would see with the mirrors, you know, that would avoid you seeing any crew or being able to discern anything in the background.

But you also are positioning the mirrors and their angles in the right way where you're not just seeing the straight up to the ceiling where it's obvious we're trying to hide something, we're down, you know, on the floor.

To answer your question, I would say the blocking was something that just took the most time.

And then of course Going back to what I was saying in the previous question, you have essentially a seven foot tall monster.

You know, gingerly dance around on these wooden floors with eight mirrors and have this reveal that kind of takes place behind her.

So that one went.

Was a little bit more different than we had planned out originally.

That was going to be like, on Dolly and be very, you know, a little bit more like, focused more on the precision.

But later on the night, of course, it's like when the hours and the clocks are ticking away and we're talking, we're like, you know, this is a moment where actually, like, you know, handheld might actually benefit us, not only logistically, but stylistically.

I mean, it makes sense.

I mean, like, Val, at this point, Val is fully lost, you know, like, she's.

She's like on the brink of like, fully losing it, if she hasn't already, you know, and you're like, how can we encapsulate kind of like how crazy this is, you know, where she kind of realizes that, like, it's hopeless almost, you know, Like, I think this.

That scene was the pivotal point where it was like, where Val finally realizes, like, oh, no, like I'm.

I'm powerless.

I'm truly powerless now.

And I think the handheld really kind of evoked that.

Yeah.

And once again, with the horror of it all, I wouldn't want to get too personal here, but what's your biggest fear when you're on set?

Ooh, when I'm on set in the filmmaking world.

Well, first off, my biggest fear outside in general, is cockroaches.

I hate them.

So if you.

This is to the world, if you want to know my weaknesses.

Cockroaches.

I hate them.

I went to school in North Carolina, and I've never.

That's where I discovered a cockroaches could fly, because one landed on me.

Oh, my God.

Jesus.

Nasty.

The cockroach movie?

No, thank you.

I don't want to watch it.

That's my biggest fear, but.

Biggest fear on set.

And I think it just.

I mean, I can't imagine anyone else wouldn't say this, but it's just like, it just.

Just letting down, you know, letting down the people that you.

You're working with, you know, and especially, like, letting down your crew first and foremost.

Like, I can't stress enough on this film how good of a crew that we had generally, like the Kentucky family that we kind of garnered.

This film wouldn't be possible without any of them, you know, Teo Stirs is my first AC and Ron Borges was my gaffer dude.

The people that came together for this film made it all possible.

My biggest fear, and I think throughout the entire film, was that I want to make sure that everyone's being taken care of.

You know, foster a positive working environment, but make sure everyone's heard.

You know, I worked as a gaffer before I started shooting, and, you know, there were a lot of dps that I worked for.

Who, you know, I understand taking things, of course, seriously.

You want to do your job to the best of your ability.

But the thing is that if we're not having fun with what we're doing, you know, if you don't feel like that, you can come up, you know, as a department head or, you know, whoever, and say an idea to me.

I don't want to be that kind of person, you know, on set.

I always want to be someone who's fostering a positive work environment and making sure that everyone feels like their voice is heard because it is a collaborative process.

It's not just me, you know, running the visual ship.

So, yeah, I would say that that would be the biggest onset fear.

Well, thank you so much for sharing and being so open about it.

Last but certainly not least, a big and important question, as this is, as we've already mentioned, your debut feature as a dp.

What is the number one thing you'll definitely take with you into future projects?

The biggest thing that I will take with me into future projects, remembering why got into this industry in the first place.

And what I mean by that is looking back of when I was just starting out and I had the worst taste possible.

I had no idea what a cinematographer was, but just the passion that, you know, I had for what I was doing at that time was something that I feel like I rediscovered on this, where it was like, I forgot how much of myself I can pour into a project and how deeply I care about something until I got on this.

And I think the thing that I want to carry with me is that I want to build on that even more.

And so going into my next project, like, preserving the director's vision and fighting for the director every possible step of the way is my job.

I need to do that, you know, more.

And it's not saying I didn't do that on this, you know, I feel talked to the producers.

I was basically knocking on their door, like, every, like, you know, five minutes about things that we needed to do, but not losing that passion, you know, like, okay, like, how can I push the limits next time?

How can we, you know, have a story that, you know, or find a script, you know, that really resonates with me.

I feel like this first step into the narrative space is the toughest.

You know, it's like taking the leap.

But the thing I'm going to carry with me, like always is just, like, the importance of camaraderie as well, and, like, how important, like, having, like, a crew that truly has your back and how far that will take you and, like, never forgetting the importance of that.

First and foremost is having a team that understands you and will carry you through the trenches and, you know, you lift each other up and, you know, working with the same people so you can all, you know, grow together.

So it's an unbelievably important message.

And yes, Scott, once again, thank you so much for your time and chat and this little behind the scenes look at this film because it's such a fun, great one to talk about.

So, yeah, thank you.

Thank you, man.

No, thank you so much.