The first presentation on this day three of the ForensiCon is a friend of mine that I admire so much. Becky Morrow, thank you for being here.

Oh my gosh. Thank you so much. You're also someone I admire very much.

Let's start by letting the audience know who you are, like where you come from and what you do.

Cool. Yes. Um, so I'm actually from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and I started out not being a shelter vet 'cause that wasn't a thing back in vet school. Uh, found my path there through the case that I was talking about today in my hoarding presentation. And, uh, got some more training in that through the University of Florida. Got my master's degree and I started a nonprofit about 15 years ago. We do high quality, high volume spay neuter. We do forensics. We do some humane research studying infectious diseases in cats, and we have a medical cat rescue. It's called Frankie's Friends Humane.

Excellent. I mean, we're like sister nerds, right?

Like absolutely.

We do a lot of the same stuff and we like to teach students, which is also so important for the future of veterinary medicine, shelter, medicine, and forensics in general.

Absolutely.

Your presentation today was about animal hoarding and the veterinarian's perspective on animal hoarding. So what can you tell us about the importance of the veterinarian in identifying and handling a case of animal hoarding?

Right. I, I think this is. A really complicated case that law enforcement, uh, when we have police officers and those that are involved in, in, in criminal cases, they're almost always humans as victims and animal victims are new to them. Even those that are used to doing animal cruelty cases, hoarding cases are a whole nother ball game because you have multiple animals, many different species in the same building perhaps. And this is gonna make it a, a situation where you have to have a lot of organization. You have to have a team, you have to have a purpose and common plan, a plan that's known to everybody and execute it. Uh, it, it's just really one of those topics that we wanna share what we've learned and learn from others so we can all do a little bit of a better job.

Yeah. I think one of the important parts is like, kind of how you mentioned there are human victims and there are animal victims, and oftentimes the human victim is the hoarder itself, and they're seen as just a perpetrator. And yes, we need to hold them responsible, but we also need to educate 'em and work with them to make them better. And then on the other side the officers and people that are working with it do not really understand how to handle an animal problem. Right. Like a high volume animal problem.

Right. It's, it's a very di different, unique situation. I mean, in law enforcement, again, there's no, uh, really example in humans, right. That they would have to deal with. It's, it's, it's very different. And I think that the other thing is just to make people realize that this is a horrible type of cruelty and it's not always thought of as, as that. It's sometimes just played off flippantly as, oh, they just got overwhelmed. They meant well, and, you know, it's, it's like not a big deal, but it truly is. This is some of the worst suffering that we could see. And we do need to hold people accountable. And it may not be, we're not trying to send the, the little lady to jail or anything like that. But we need to prevent that from happening again in the future.

What is your advice for veterinarians that wanna get involved? Going into like their first animal hoarding case? Things for them to look for, things for them to note to report. Right.

That's, that's a great question. I mean, I, it's, it's a lot of us learning as we, we see things, but there are some great resources now out there. The animal forensic books are great. They definitely do give you a, some background on it, so there's resources. There's different webinars and so forth now. So just kind of getting an idea. If you can't contact somebody specifically and talk to a forensic vet who does this, there's definitely resources to help you with. But a lot of it's the same problem solving skills that we have, right? We're already into this, this problem solving aspect of our career. It's just solving different problems, and in this case, it's not just treating the patient, you're actually collecting evidence. So you have to go in with a little bit of a different mindset.

One of the things that I discuss with the attorneys that have given presentations is about the reluctancy of veterinarians in testifying. And I know that you like to testify. I love to testify, but not everybody's built like us, right? Right. What? But it's not that big a deal, and I think it's about veterinarians knowing what they know and what they don't know. So what would be your advice for a veterinarian that wants to get involved and is just worried about the, the jury or the, the legal side of it?

Right. No, that's, that's really, it is truly a thing. I mean, 'cause you just don't know. It's scary, it's unexpected. Not something we're trained to do, but absolutely. You are the expert as a veterinarian, you know a lot more than anybody else in that room. And using your knowledge and using your same skills that you do for diagnosing animals. You're essentially, um, you're teaching the jury, you're teaching the, the judge. That's something you do to with clients already. So it's really a natural I think transition, other than the fact that it, it is scary at first when you get up on the stand because, you know, this is a procedural different, different things. You're, you know, having to swear to, to an oath and it's scary at first, but it's really, uh, rewarding that you're there telling the story of that victim and you were just there for the truth. You're not there for any side. You just speak the truth and that's what you do every day when you talk to clients. So I think it's really natural for us to do that.

Yeah, that's a great advice because a lot of people think about, well, the defense is gonna be grilling me. Like how many times in general practice do we get grilled by owners that think that they know everything? You go say, research Google.

Yes,

Dr. Google. And they come in and they're like, no, you don't know what you're doing. And you have to prove yourself. Right? You have to prove your competency. So I mean, it's not that much different than being with client. There's just other people in there.

Right. And preparation just like anything else. And, you know way more you're smarter than they are no matter what, because you are the veterinarian. That is your field of expertise. That is not theirs.

Excellent. Well, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for everything that you do.

Thank you for what you do.