Narrator [00:00:04]:

Welcome to Supply Chain Now, the voice of global supply chain. Supply Chain Now focuses on the best in the business for our worldwide audience, the people, the technologies, the best practices, and today's critical issues, the challenges and opportunities. Stay tuned to hear from those making global business happen right here on Supply Chain Now.

Scott W. Luton [00:00:32]:

Hey, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you may be. Scott Luton and Karin Bursa with you here on Supply Chain Now. Karin, how you doing today?

Karin Bursa [00:00:42]:

I'm doing great, Scott. It's a great day to be in supply chain and a real privilege to be here with you and the supply chain.

Scott W. Luton [00:00:48]:

Now, team, two shows in a week, and this is going to be another home run show, undoubtedly, folks, great show. Eat up here. Today we're going to be shining a big old bright light, that's a technical term, big old bright light on a growing challenge across global supply chain cargo theft. According to some estimates out there, cargo theft is up almost 50% here in 2024 over last year. But there's good news. We're going to be sharing critical data, insights and actions that supply chain leaders got to be aware of so they can take them as they look to mitigate this big risk moving forward. Karin should be a timely show, huh?

Karin Bursa [00:01:25]:

Absolutely. Scott. I cannot believe that stat. You shared 50% increase in theft. Now, I heard in some of the research I did that 2023 last year had a 40% increase. So when you look at consecutive years, this is a real challenge. I'm really looking forward to hearing what our guest speaker has to say today, Karin.

Scott W. Luton [00:01:49]:

I am as well. And you know what? What? Compounding the data you shared there is, it doesn't get enough attention and visibility. So we're here to help change that. We got a wonderful guest, so stay tuned. All right, Karin, ready to get to work?

Karin Bursa [00:02:02]:

I'm ready.

Scott W. Luton [00:02:03]:

I want to welcome in our guests here today. We're going to have a lot of fun. We're going to educate, inform, and laugh a little bit as we reminisce on things across supply chain. And I. Baseball. So with all that says, welcome in. Richie Daigle, enterprise account executive with Tive. Hey.

Scott W. Luton [00:02:22]:

Hey, Richie, how are you doing?

Richie Daigle [00:02:25]:

Hey. Hey, Scott. Doing well today. Thanks for having me on.

Scott W. Luton [00:02:28]:

Excellent. Great to have you back. We've really enjoyed Karin and me and you and Lauren, Amanda, Kathryn, all the folks behind the scenes helped make today happen. Our prep conversations, including your baseball background. Now, there's a reason I mentioned down the front end folks out there, you know, we like, starting with a fundamental question. And I know many folks out there know that I'm a big old baseball nerd. Karin, you'll at least identify as a baseball nerd for the next hour, won't you?

Karin Bursa [00:02:55]:

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Scott W. Luton [00:02:58]:

So we both love our braves. I'm a big fan of the movie moneyball, and come to find out, you played professional baseball. Richie, for the Padres organization. We talked about in the prep show, Greg Maddox being one of my all time favorite players. I think you rubbed elbows with mad dogmatics at spring training one year. So tell us more about a favorite moment or two during your baseball journey. Richie.

Richie Daigle [00:03:22]:

My very first day of spring training, you know, as green as can be, and I got my tray, and I got in the breakfast line to go get food at 630 in the morning or so, and still not fully awake. And then it dawned on me. I'm standing behind Maddox and in front of Trevor Hoffmande. I mean, I looked up to these guys for my whole career. So I looked back at Hoffman. I was like, I mean, how does this work? Am I in the wrong place? Like, are you supposed to go ahead of me? Like, this is my first day. I don't know what's going on. He just kind of laughed at me and said, you're right where you need to be.

Richie Daigle [00:03:52]:

And I'm like, well, that's pretty cool. They get to spend some time with Maddox, and of course, you know, was able to get him alone for a minute, and I was like, all right, how does pitching work? Like, what are you doing? You know, like, teach me. You know, his dad was a blackjack dealer, and he just thinks in terms of probabilities and numbers. And he said, listen, Richie, pitching is really easy. I'm like, thanks, greg Maddox, I appreciate you letting me know that. Picking so easy, you know, he said, you know, look, look, it comes down to having a plan, knowing how to implement your plan and executing your plan. And then he pointed out that all the hitters, you know, they're hitting 300, the best one, so they're getting out 70% of the time. He's like, I'm the casino.

Richie Daigle [00:04:35]:

They're the gamblers. So if I have a plan to make their odds worse, and then I know how to implement that plan, which is knowing what pitch to throw in what situation, then I can execute. It's like math says, I'm good. I just have to do those things. And I think that applies pretty heavily in the business world as well. If you can have a well thought out plan, if, you know, how to implement your plan. And if you can execute it, you're going to improve your odds for success. And I think Maddox showed that that approach works.

Scott W. Luton [00:05:06]:

Oh, Richie and Karin, I knew I was going to keep myself from talking baseball stories with you for over the next hour. We'll have to have Greg Maddox back on the October 16 show with you, Richie. But really quick, Karin, first off, Richie was part of a hall of fame sandwich between Trevor Hoffman and Greg Maddox, by the way. Uh, but I love the probabilities and that view on life and view on baseball, because there's lots of supply chain takeaways there as well, the playing, the probabilities. Right. And, uh, the blackjack. I had no idea that Greg Maddox's father was a blackjack dealer. No wonder he views things in the worlds of odds and statistics.

Scott W. Luton [00:05:45]:

Karin, your thoughts there?

Karin Bursa [00:05:46]:

Oh, I thought that was a great story, Richie. That was fantastic. And. And I like the mathematical element of that, because a lot of supply chain is all about math and synchronizing supply, demand and distribution. So, looking forward to hearing a little more about what happens when our distribution gets disrupted.

Scott W. Luton [00:06:05]:

Oh, that is a great segue, but I'm not going to let you do it just yet, Karin, because I got one more thing. With Greg Maddox. There's a great moment, I think Greg Maddox was getting interviewed during the middle of the game, and Richie, to your point, he was telling his colleagues at massading what was going to happen with this, this one batter, because he was analyzing what the pitcher was throwing. He already knew the batters tendencies. And he said, you're going to have a foul ball that hit this bench right here, and I'll be dag on fit. That's exactly what happened. So, Karin and Richie, predictive analytics. Greg, who would have thought Greg Maddox was a trailblazer there? Karin and Rich, we got a great show teed up.

Scott W. Luton [00:06:40]:

Let's start with some more context. You have to come back for the baseball hour. Let's start with telling us a little bit more about your background professionally and a little bit about what time.

Richie Daigle [00:06:50]:

Yeah, so I've been in the supply chain space for close to five years now. Prior to Tive, I was at freight waves, and prior to that, I was in a whole other industry working in adventure travel. I've learned quite a bit over a short period of time and really excited and grateful to be part of the Tive team just because it's a great feeling to be working for a company that's making a real tangible difference. And we see that impact on a daily basis, and that just keeps everybody going over here. Tive our whole mission is to help freight arrive on time and in full. And the way we go about helping companies achieve that is raising their overall awareness of their shipments, locations and conditions in real time. And we do that by utilizing IoT devices and software kind of in tandem. And we also have some monitoring services that we can add on as options.

Richie Daigle [00:07:45]:

But it's all about equipping companies with the latest and greatest in technology in terms of trackers and software to raise your overall awareness of what's going on. That makes a big difference. And that's what we want to talk about today, is awareness in general and the importance of raising that across the board.

Scott W. Luton [00:08:03]:

Man. Okay. Visibility on steroids, powering real time decision making. To Karin, as you said it a minute ago, I think you said, you said either logistics or freight disruptions. There's plenty of them, both of them apply. But your thoughts, what you heard there from Richie and what he and the tie up team are up to?

Karin Bursa [00:08:20]:

Karin yeah, I think it's really important because the best laid plans of mice and men are often led astray. So just to borrow a few words there. So contingencies and monitoring where we are at any point in time, just increasingly important, especially with the stat that you shared, Scott, on the increasing issues around getting delivery of your goods.

Scott W. Luton [00:08:44]:

It's mind boggling. And as we were saying before you join us, Richie, it's got to get more attention. And I'll tell you, those numbers keep on doing, going directions. They're going. It's getting plenty more attention. Right. All right. So now that we know a little bit more about Richie's background and of course, the cool things that ties up to, I want to set the table a little bit more because Karin and I have already kind of pounded the table with sheer data, or as you called the other day, Karin, taking the feelings out and bringing in the facts, I think.

Scott W. Luton [00:09:11]:

Is that how you put it, Karin?

Karin Bursa [00:09:13]:

Yeah, absolutely. Replacing feelings with facts. You got it.

Scott W. Luton [00:09:16]:

Okay. So the data shows how big of a problem, a growing problem this is. Let's put some context, a little more context on it. What are some of the recent examples of cargo theft across supply chain that have really hit your radar, Richie, that you could share with us?

Richie Daigle [00:09:32]:

Yeah, and it's interesting, the whole data and feelings comment, Karin, because there's a lot of people who think that the data doesn't represent the true magnitude of this problem right now because it's based on people reporting that data comes from what's reported and how many things are happening that aren't reported. And so there is a feeling that's kind of backed by the statistics that this problem might be even bigger than what we're aware of. It's so easy to turn stolen goods into cash these days. You have various online marketplaces, and I think a lot of people are figuring that out, that I can take something that's not mine and I can have that turn into money quickly. I could put something on various marketplaces, and it's sold. So we're seeing lots of creativity around getting freight and a lot of organization around those efforts as well. So that might be a number of double brokering schemes. In the beginning, there's a number of shell games that can be played to a truck pulls up and it's not the correct truck, but they found out about the pickup, and they're going to try to beat the correct truck to the warehouse to get the freight.

Richie Daigle [00:10:40]:

There's marking containers with apple airtags or something like that in a Portland in order to find them once they're on the rail. We've heard of stuff like that. There's people, the bad guys are using technology. They're tech savvy. They're finding ways to identify specific truckloads and containers that have the freight that they're targeting. They're coming up with various ways to go after that freight. Lots of creativity out there right now, and I think it's time to respond to that.

Scott W. Luton [00:11:13]:

Richie and Karin, why can't we redirect all this brilliant creativity into positive impact of industry? But, yeah, that's why criminals exist, I guess. Karin, as I look to spin a little pop culture element to this, I think of the Sopranos, which during one season, they were stealing containers. They had an organized effort to steal containers of scooters during one of their seasons. And then, of course, more recently or around the same time, arguably breaking bad, which was a fascinating Walter White, Jesse and the whole gang stopped a train to steal a methylene from a tank car, which was fascinating. And, folks, we think that cargo theft's not a big thing. It even permeates what we watch on tv and just those examples and many others. But Karin, much like cyber, I think, as Richie was speaking about it, not only are the incidents multiplying, but the complexity and the level of orchestration is also getting more complex. What did you hear there?

Karin Bursa [00:12:14]:

Yeah, absolutely. And even the simple example, Richie, that you shared about using an apple air tag to identify cargo that thieves are interested in. I'm with you, Scott. If we could just use all that creativity for good instead of evil, imagine where we would be and how supply chains would perform. It is a very real issue, especially around these high value or highly marketable goods. And it's happening everywhere, from food to luxury goods to sporting goods, to take us back to sporting goods to high value ingredients in the marketplace.

Scott W. Luton [00:12:51]:

That's right. Strategic, tactical, all points in between. And we're going to dive into defining this risk a lot better here, as Karin and I and the rest of us all here learn from Richie and what they're doing over at top. So let's move into our main topic. Now that we've gotten some context out on the table, we've kind of set a table a bit. Our main topic today, unpacking cargo security, defining what puts freight at risk. Risk being a critical topic in so many different ways here in 2024 and beyond. Let's identify some of the key factors that put freight at risk.

Scott W. Luton [00:13:25]:

Richie, tell us more about accidental risk versus intentional risk.

Richie Daigle [00:13:30]:

Your comment about tv shows. You know, I gotta bring up the wire in season two of the wire, as old as that show is, they showed some, like, kind of shell games with how they could hide containers and steal containers. And I understand it was a pretty realistic show. If it was that complex, like, I don't know, 20 or 25 years ago, whenever that show was made, like, think what it's like today. I think, like, as far as risk goes, like the kind of, kind of accidental risk, if you will, things happen that you can't predict. You know, it could be weather, it could be a traffic accident, it could be a truck breaking down. It could be a driver who gets sick. It could be a reefer unit that breaks unexpectedly.

Richie Daigle [00:14:10]:

There's all kinds of things. I mean, if you worked in supply chain, you know, things happen, stuff hits the fan. Like things just go haywire. That's out of anybody's control. So I think those are all risk. And there are things that you can do to lessen those risks across the board, but they're kind of. You don't see them coming. You know, no one sees a car that's going to broadside them on the.

Richie Daigle [00:14:33]:

On the freeway, if you will. But I think there's also intentional risk at play where people are choosing nefarious behaviors. And it may be something that is not so bad. Such as, I'm going to turn my reefer unit off for a few hours and save some gas. Well, that, that does put the freight in the back at risk, you know, because you're playing around with the temperatures and you don't, you may not know the sensitivity of those temperatures in that scenario. It may be something where a truck driver sees that, oh, I still have half a trailer of room left. I'm going to go pick up a couple pallets or like an LTL load and make a little bit of money on the side. It was going to know the better.

Richie Daigle [00:15:12]:

I need to make some more money. I'm deserving. And they justify that behavior. Well, you don't know what you're combining in there. You don't know what's going to happen in the back of that trailer, how it's packed and there's risk that is being increased with that sort of behavior. Then, of course, there's, I'm going to go steal some freight. And that is, of course, a big risk as well. And we're seeing that risk go up with the recent numbers and the behavior that we're seeing.

Richie Daigle [00:15:38]:

So I think it's important to just kind of understand risk as a whole stretches a huge gamut. Sometimes it's helpful to kind of bucket things a little bit accordingly.

Scott W. Luton [00:15:47]:

Love it. I love bucketing. You're talking my language now, Richie. Karin, before I get a comment from you, a couple things that stood out as Richie was kind of sharing that with us. First off, risk snowballs. It's like that chapter from the Bible, risk begets risk begets risk begets risk. It just tends to snowball a lot. Right.

Scott W. Luton [00:16:05]:

And then the other thing that came to my mind, and Richie, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I'm following you between accidental and intentional. So I think about having a desktop computer on maybe during a lightning storm, and lightning zaps your computer, knocks it offline, it's more accidental. Right. Versus an intentional high end cybercriminal unit penetrating your computer, stealing your stuff and telling you, hey, pay us a million dollars and you'll get your, your Amazon order details back. Do I have kind of, have those two buckets generally described accurately, Richie, would you follow? Is that pass the quiz?

Richie Daigle [00:16:42]:

Exactly. And to build on that, there's things you can do to better your probabilities for each. Right. Like maybe not leave your computer on and plugged in during a lightning storm, and then maybe, you know, install some sort of software that's going to keep the bad guys out of your computer. So there's still steps that can be taken, like we were talking about earlier, like make, make your probabilities better and more in your favor.

Scott W. Luton [00:17:06]:

That's right. Playing odds better and embracing countermeasures. Okay, so, Karin, we're about to dive in a little bit deeper into acts and risk and intentional risk. But I think this is just initially, these buckets might be living in people's blind spots a bit. Your thoughts are, Karin?

Karin Bursa [00:17:21]:

Yeah, I think it's a great way to consider the risks and disruptions. Right. So as supply chain professionals, our goal is to plan and source and distribute goods, and we're trying to be lean and mean with the inventory we're holding in our network. So a disruption in that actual freight or shipping process is a big disruption for us because those are typically finished goods or high value goods that we're looking at as raw materials or inbound into our businesses. We need to control what we can control and take, as you said, or as Richie said, countermeasures to ensure the timely and in good condition delivery of our products.

Scott W. Luton [00:18:07]:

Yes, well said. Because that freight doesn't get there on time in full. It really slows down revenue generation and in good condition. Well said, Karin Richie. So accidental risk. Accidental risk. Let's dive a little bit deeper in some of those examples and subcategories, I guess, if you will.

Richie Daigle [00:18:26]:

Yeah, I think there's mechanical failures, whether it's an engine, a reefer unit, there's any number of things that can happen with all of the mechanisms that are moving freight. There could be delays that could lead to various delays. There could be weather events. There's a hurricane coming up right now that is going to cause changes to routes and a number of different things. I think you can go a number of different directions with these kinds of accidental risks. Things happen. I think what's important is how quickly can companies find out what's going on? What's the speed to knowledge? What is the speed to awareness? It's one thing to learn about a disruption five minutes after it took place versus 8 hours after it took place. That amount of time can be really meaningful and how far the ripples and the impact of that event are traveling.

Richie Daigle [00:19:22]:

So, yeah, I think in the accidental space or in the intentional space, awareness is huge. But, yeah, there's a lot of different buckets or subcategories there for accidental. And I just touched on a few.

Scott W. Luton [00:19:33]:

Yeah. Before we add a few more comments, I think another global and economic factors and that subcategory of accidental risk. Right. Supply chain disruptions that may be tied to political events or geopolitical conflict and whatnot. Any quick comments there, Richie, before we weigh in on a couple of other items?

Richie Daigle [00:19:53]:

Weve all learned the impact of a global pandemic on supply chain and what that bullwhip was like and the initial impact versus the mid to long term impacts of that, the swing back and how that impacted economies. The one thing is that all these things are connected, you know, whether it's geopolitical, whether it's economic, whether it's pandemic and supply chain. There's an interconnectivity across all of these different entities or big, huge hyper objects or whatever you want to call them. So oftentimes when there's, you know, ripples out of one, it's, it's being felt across many. So I think it's important to consider the connectivity of everything globally.

Scott W. Luton [00:20:35]:

If you don't get Richie and Todd to help you manage and see better through that complexity, get help somewhere. And I think that was a commercial back in the eighties somewhere. One of the things I love there that Richie shared is that speed to knowledge. And it reminds me of an anecdote that I like to share. And ever since I first read it, I'm sure our audience is tired of me saying it, but I think it's so relevant. Joe Vlasic, which was a second generation leader of the big food company, right? In fact, if you ever seen the stork from the pickle commercials, that was fashioned after Joe Vlasic, who would have been CEO and chairman of the company, really big food conglomerate, and one of his mantras, Richie and Karin, was kind of what Richie was saying, give me good news fast, but give me bad news faster, because I love Richie's call out. When you get bad news in like five minutes versus 8 hours, your options are, look a lot different, as well as the risk. But, Karin, what do you hear there? As we talked about all the different types of accidental risk, the ability to.

Karin Bursa [00:21:34]:

Sense and respond and to do that, that speed to knowledge, I like thinking of it in that terms. And it's just really important in how you're able to initiate countermeasures or even in some situations, find the freight that has been stolen. When they can look at the location information. It's much easier to find something when it's close to where it should have been at the time, then hours and hours later, when it could be in a number of different locations or directions, speed to knowledge or sense and respond. And to do that in the quickest, tightest timeline possible is a real tangible value.

Scott W. Luton [00:22:17]:

Karin, well said. I love that sense and respond. Sense, act and respond. Because I think to me, while we hear about visibility for years now, and some would argue it's become table stakes, the emphasis all too often isn't enough on that acting and responding piece of what visibility gives you.

Richie Daigle [00:22:38]:

A.

Scott W. Luton [00:22:39]:

And I think that's a big part of Richie and Tom's approach. All right, so intentional risk. Now let's get to that second bucket that we touched on a second ago and give a few more examples, such as, Richie, just straight up freight crime.

Richie Daigle [00:22:53]:

Tell us more subdivided these buckets. But you have maybe not so bad or not as bad. Still bad, right? I'm going to turn my reefer from continuous to automatic or to just turn it off. I'm going to save gas money and make a little bit more money on this load, or I'm going to go pick up another load on the way and fill out the back of my trailer, I was on a call with a customer once, and during a call, he got one of our alerts and he looked down at his phone. He was like, I can't believe it. He's like, richie, this is all your fault. I'm like, what are you talking about? He's like, you're the reason why I have to go have this hard conversation. I'm like, what are you talking about? I don't know what's going on.

Richie Daigle [00:23:34]:

He's like, well, I just went and bought this driver lunch, and I'm paying him dedicated money to take this half truckload of high value stuff there. And I'm paying them to come back empty. I'm paying them dedicated money. I bought them lunch. I explained to him how important this was, and that was an hour and a half ago. And I just got a light alert, and I know that he's filling up the rest of his trailer, and now I have to make a phone call and have an awkward conversation. He's like, without that device, he probably gets away with it. I never know, right? And so I think there's that sort of thing that can happen a lot, especially with freight rates being relatively low.

Richie Daigle [00:24:11]:

There may be more pressure for people to get creative with their diversifying their income streams, so to speak. Then you have just straight up theft, right? Like energy drinks is a big, big target right now, or solar panels or cell phones, whatever it may be. And we have the means, we have this network in place where we can turn that into cash really fast through eBay or Facebook marketplace or what have you. So we're going to go after that truck. We know where it's. Where it's going to stop. They have a plan in place, whether it might even be on intermodal. They know where the train is going to stop.

Richie Daigle [00:24:45]:

They know how to identify the container. They're going to get in and out quickly, and they're going to find a way to turn it into money really quick. So you have that sort of coordinated effort that's happening as well. So there's kind of the, the opportunistic sort of things that are taking place and some of that's, you know, rail theft as well. If the train stops and sitting still for 8 hours in a not so great neighborhood, people might get curious about what's inside all of these, you know, and go open them up like Christmas presents or something. There's a lot of different things that are, that are coming in a lot of different risks or a lot of different ways that freight's being impacted and kind of a nefarious way. So all of those are risk. All of those are making an impact today and things that people should be aware of.

Scott W. Luton [00:25:29]:

So, folks, I told y'all we were going to shine a big old flashlight. Again, a technical term there on what's going on with cargo theft. And here in a minute, after we kind of have spent this front end of conversation on defining the problem, right. Defining what's going on, we're going to get some of Richie's advice for steps you can take. And of course, that'll be a big part of a subsequent conversation we're having in October. But Karin, two things from what Richie shared there that I want to call out on that first example when the business owner was saying, oh, Richie, this is all your fault. But I bet he, that business leader, as well as all the rest of us out there, would rather have that tough conversation versus experiencing the business loss, right? And then secondly, as Richie was talking about all the different ways that technology enables the good guys, so to speak, right, inclusively. But it's also enhancing the criminals ability, like that criminal procure to cash cycle has really condensed as well.

Scott W. Luton [00:26:29]:

They steal it and then they offload it quickly for cash, which that those cycles condensing really require supply chain leaders ability to do what you said, that sense enact and respond, or that speed to knowledge as Richie was talking about. It's not a nice to have anymore. But Karin, what'd you hear? What else did you hear there before we move forward?

Karin Bursa [00:26:48]:

Yeah, I think that was two really important takeaways we work hard in supply chain for predictability, right. And when disruptions occur, whether intentional or unintentional, we want to know about it. We want to know about it quickly. The point about a carrier picking up an additional load, I mean, that puts us in that position of trust, but verify. Right. We want to secure our goods that are in those shipments around that carrier. But we also need to verify in many situations that they're on track because of the ability to do something about it. If we need to reroute because of a weather disruption or some other event, it becomes increasingly important.

Karin Bursa [00:27:33]:

And, Scott, I think you said something. Visibility. We've all been talking about visibility. The real value comes from when we get that visibility. What do we do? What do we do with it? How do we use it to ensure that we're meeting our business plan and satisfying our customers with goods that are in good condition and timely delivered?

Scott W. Luton [00:27:54]:

Yes, well said. If I can make a quick comment there, uh, Richie and Karin, a few months back, I was saying something along the lines that you just shared there, Karin, and I think it was misinterpreted as I was downplaying visibility. Right. No one's downplaying visibility. There's plenty of companies that are still working hard to gain the visibility they need. Small, big, and all points in between. No one is downplaying visibility. But as Karin was talking about, the emphasis on what you do when you have it, that is the heart of the matter, in my view, at least.

Scott W. Luton [00:28:26]:

So not downplaying visibility. Also, the game has changed so much. And, Richie, I am so glad that you're sharing these examples that, again, as we were talking about earlier, don't get shared enough because the game is not like another little tv show or this is a movie. The Irishman, you remember that? That is, I can't remember the famous director that directed Goodfellas. But in the front end of that movie, one of the central characters drove trucks, drove meat trucks. And of course, they would lock, this is back in the fifties. They'd lock the truck to ensure that all the product gets from stop to stop with the game. Too bad it's not that simple.

Scott W. Luton [00:29:01]:

These days. The game is so much different than just putting a lock on the back of the trailer, as Richie is indicating. So it is time to upgrade our countermeasures and what we do about it as supply chain leaders, for sure. All right, so before we get into some of your suggested actions, Richie, any other terms? Anything else? Before we get into suggested steps that supply chain leaders can take any other terms, definitions. See, I told you, those that you want to share with our audience.

Richie Daigle [00:29:31]:

You're using this word visibility. And I think it's one of these big buzzwords that everybody's been using this word for years. I think people are kind of fatigued. Like visibility. We got visibility. I can look at it. You know, I'm kind of drawn to this term awareness a bit more. You know, it's one thing to have some visibility.

Richie Daigle [00:29:49]:

Yeah, we bought some visibility technology. We checked the box. But, like, what are you aware of that's going on with, with your shipments? And there's lots of different ways to raise that awareness, and there's different ways to think about that awareness. And again, a few more buckets to kind of consider four basic buckets for awareness. You have your known knowns. I know that there are cars outside. I can see them. You, you know, like, I know that I know this.

Richie Daigle [00:30:15]:

I have my known unknowns. I know that. I don't know exactly how many cars are in that parking lot. Like, I know that I'm not aware of this. You know, so there's a known unknowns. There's the unknown knowns, which is the. The unconscious one. I have a feeling they're getting rained on, but I don't know for sure, you know? Like, it's an unknown known.

Richie Daigle [00:30:34]:

I'm probably right, but I can't know it. And then you have the unknown unknowns. I don't know what. I don't know. There's the blind spot. And I think that good technology that is. Think about it. In the Greg Maddox terminology, the plan that is implemented correctly, in a smart and thoughtful way, and executed upon correctly is going to raise the overall awareness of all four of those buckets.

Richie Daigle [00:31:02]:

And it's going to shed more light on that fourth bucket, too, of what's the unknown unknowns. What do you not know that you don't know? And when that stuff starts coming on board, that can be really powerful. Like that story that I shared about the guy who got the message, that's an unknown unknown. He doesn't know that. He doesn't know that's taking place until he's getting a text message telling him that this is, this activity is going on. So I think that's what's exciting, is trying to raise the overall level of awareness across the board that is going to enable all of these supply chain professionals to be better and faster and more in tune with what's going on. I think there's also a part of relationships that plays into that. That's really important, too, with all the technology.

Richie Daigle [00:31:49]:

It's kind of counterintuitive, but it also means that relationships are all the more important today. That's something else to consider. Jeff.

Scott W. Luton [00:31:56]:

Well said. I mean, I wasn't around in 1776, during the American Revolution, uh, to check how important relationships were back there. But I tend to agree with you, Richie. Relationships matter, and and that's how we're going to leveraging trusted relationships, or how we're going to solve some of the biggest challenges of our time. Two quick thoughts about, and I'm at the whiteboard this out, Karin. Richie. So I can follow that philosophical thinking along. RICHIE but two, I think the most dangerous things that you touched on was, number one, folks and organizations, by extension, that aren't willing to admit what they don't know.

Scott W. Luton [00:32:34]:

Hugely dangerous. But perhaps what's more dangerous is not willing to investigate what you don't know that you don't know. So. But, Karin, what'd you hear there as he kind of walked us through those four different permutations? Am I using that word right?

Karin Bursa [00:32:48]:

Yeah, I wrote those down as Richie was going through it. So I think that's valuable to put together as you're looking at your own plans in supply chain, what you do know, what you don't know, and the combinations in between on the performance of just a multitude of variables. And when we're talking about moving goods, there are, in fact, a multitude of variables to be considered. So, Richie, thanks so much for framing it up that way, because I really think that it opens the door for us to consider how do we make performance and delivery more reliable, and how do we build that trust in performance with our important trading partners that are moving goods for us and bringing them to market. And the bottom line is, we haven't discussed this, but this keeps the drivers safe. Also in that conversation, there are win win propositions all the way around as we monitor the movement of goods.

Scott W. Luton [00:33:46]:

Karin, I'm so glad you brought that point up. We're on the precipice of driver appreciation week, which is coming up, I believe, next week or week after. And driver safety is a big topic that also doesn't get enough attention. If we pour the right approaches and countermeasures and proactive leadership action into cargo theft, by extension, it spills over into all other sorts of benefits, including, I would argue, in driver safety. Let's get into some suggested actions, and, you know, we're just going to be probably scraping the tip of the iceberg. Here. We'll touch on more in a subsequent conversation in October. But what would be a couple of your recommendations for supply chain leaders out there that they can take today? Richie? To protect their freight across the ecosystem?

Richie Daigle [00:34:32]:

I think there's a couple things that should be considered. Relationships. I touched on it previously. Build really good relationships, take time to understand who you're doing business with. Get to know them, vet them, right? And that kind of segues straight into vetting, you know, and all of the vetting, there's different platforms out there that can help with vetting to try to weed out those bad actors right out of the get go, if you can identify them and get them out of your network. So relationships and vetting, but even then, like, that's not going to catch everything. As we talked about, things that can happen that are outside of your control with accidental risk. So having a way to track freight, your freight's location and conditions in real time is becoming necessary.

Richie Daigle [00:35:19]:

It's not a nice to have. As you all were discussing previously, I went to a conference not long ago and there was a whole slide. It was about freight security and just one slide. All it said was trackers work. And I was just talking about the importance of, especially if it's high value, if it's susceptible to temperature, you need real time awareness of what's going on with those shipments because of the volatility of everything today. So, yeah, I think, you know, relationships, vetting who you're doing business with and tracking your freight, I think these are a great starting point to elevate the overall level of awareness.

Scott W. Luton [00:35:55]:

What a great start to what folks can do today. Richie, I appreciate you sharing, Karin. A couple things that stood out to me. Anyone that's ever listened to any of our shows around here, relationships, building meaningful relationship with suppliers, going out and getting into their facilities, meeting the team, understanding what their risks are, right, what's happened, what hasn't happened, what they're doing differently. So critical. And as I'm stating the obvious here, perhaps, and then the other thing to play on, something that Richie touched on that you said earlier, Karin, is how can we be more effective leveraging technology and a variety of different resources at sensing better, right? Because there's gonna be plenty of things outside of our control, right? Going to one of those buckets that Richard was telling us about. But the better we are at sensing and seeing some of the factors and ingredients that make up those perfect storms, the better we'll be prepared to protect whatever resilience we have in our organizations, which we all found out plenty in the last few years, we don't have nearly as much as we thought we did. But what you hear there in some of those suggestions, Corinthe.

Karin Bursa [00:37:00]:

Yeah, so the relationships are critical, and I'm a big believer in trust but verify, especially when those relationships are new. I think that Tive offers a way to do that verification. So whether we are monitoring the environmental conditions, the temperature or the humidity, or even the shock or jostling that may occur in the actual movement of those goods, that's important, as well as where is that shipment? Is it in the right lane? Is it en route? Will it arrive on time? There's all kinds of good informative things that happen in that verification and monitoring process. But back to Richie's point about sense where it is, or sense what the conditions are, but then respond, start putting your countermeasures in action so that you can ensure that your customer is getting the goods and services the perfect orders that they expect for your brand in the marketplace.

Scott W. Luton [00:38:01]:

Yeah, very well said there. And before, we're going to offer up a couple resources of folks in just a minute and make sure folks know how to connect with Richie. But as you were sharing that, Karin, two other thoughts came to my mind. Chain of custody. Well, to best protect chain of custody, we've got to take a modern day, forward looking technology approach, one of many other things we could do. So it's critically important, especially when you think about pharmaceuticals, food, temperature controlled items, you name it, and many others. And then secondly, sustainability, the better we are at mitigating all these risks that RichIe and we've been talking about, Karin, there'll be some more spillover effects there on what everyone wants, which is more sustainable, real outcome driven sustainability gains across our global supply chains. And that is also one of the great byproducts of better freight management, risk management, and mitigating the cargo theft risk that is out there.

Scott W. Luton [00:39:02]:

I need one more. I need that 19th cup of coffee. Richie and Karin, that's almost the tongue.

Karin Bursa [00:39:07]:

Twister Richie went through with the known and the unknown. Yes, and we didn't know. So I'm going to leave that to the two of you. I'm not sure.

Scott W. Luton [00:39:16]:

Oh, my goodness.

Richie Daigle [00:39:17]:

I don't have those statistics memorized, but the statistics of the amount of freight that goes bad, like food that goes bad in transit and the percentage of pharmaceuticals that go bad in transit, are really sobering. And so the sustainability, we always talk about solving world hunger and helping people be healthier there's a huge amount of freight that's going bad, that's carrying very important cargo, whether it's food or medicine. So, yeah, I think there's definitely opportunity to make a positive change there.

Scott W. Luton [00:39:49]:

Undoubtedly. I agree with that 1000%, Richie and Karin, and by saying that, I'm showing you all my lack of mathematical prowess. All right, Richie, you stay on the go when you're not enjoying the beautiful Chattanooga, Tennessee landscape. I was. I was through there about a month or two ago, and the traffic has picked up a little bit as I was trying to work my way through that beautiful, scenic view. But I know you also enjoy the backwoods of Tennessee and getting with enjoying your own golden pond moments. That's important with family. But when you're not enjoying gorgeous Tennessee, or if you're not out across events, across the supply chain landscape, how can folks track you down for a cup of coffee, talk shop, and figure out how they can do things better in their supply chains? How can folks reach out to you? Richie?

Richie Daigle [00:40:40]:

Yeah, definitely. Thanks for that. And the traffic in Chattanooga is not traffic by Atlanta standards. There are two different definitions just to clear the record there. But yeah, you can find me on LinkedIn. Please feel free to reach out to LinkedIn. I check it probably more often than I should. And then also the tithe website, you can reach out there.

Richie Daigle [00:41:01]:

And then my email is Richie dot de gulf.com. so feel free to send an email as well.

Scott W. Luton [00:41:07]:

Awesome. And we're going to be dropping a link or two there. And I will just add, speaking of traffic, Karin and all three of us have Atlanta roots in some ways, shape or forms. Maybe I was setting the wrong expectations. I was expecting to drive through Chattanooga and look at these mountains as I, as I worked my way on the other, you know, kind of through the city. Maybe it's because I couldn't do that and it took me about 25 minutes to get through. Maybe that's why it seemed like awful traffic. But regardless, gorgeous city, and we're going to make sure folks know how to connect with you.

Scott W. Luton [00:41:36]:

Richie Daigle, Karin, have you been through Chattanooga lately?

Karin Bursa [00:41:39]:

I have. I have. And it was beautiful. And as Richie said, the traffic was nothing compared to the Atlanta area. So I didn't have your experience that day, Scott.

Scott W. Luton [00:41:50]:

All right. Hopefully that's the outlier. Then I'll drive up through again. But next time we'll have to get together for an adult beverage and talk shop a bit. Richie Krin and Richie. Cause the conversation's not done, folks. Join us as I've mentioned a couple times through this show on October 16, as we host Richie again, back by popular demand, maybe some more baseball stories, along with a friend of the show, David Shillingford. As we're diving into how to effectively confront and overcome the ever changing dynamics in freight security somewhat we talked about here and a whole bunch more new stuff.

Scott W. Luton [00:42:22]:

So check out that we'll be publishing that show really, really soon. Make plans to join us. Okay, Karin, as we wrap here, we covered a lot of ground. And, man, I think we've got a protected truckload of actionable insights. Right? And we know where it is. But, Karim, what's one of your key takeaways from our conversation?

Karin Bursa [00:42:43]:

It's been a great conversation. And the tangible impact that you can make on your business. Right. On securing your freight and making sure that it arrives in good condition, in full to satisfy your customer needs. Truth is, our world is getting smaller. So our nodes, our connection points, are getting closer and closer together. And we need the ability to monitor those and monitor not only the condition of our goods, but that our goods are en route and on time for our customers. So I think Richie has given us a few things to think about and realizing that we don't know what we don't know.

Karin Bursa [00:43:23]:

Or Richie. I'm not going to say this right. The unknown unknown. The unknown unknown. I didn't know what I did know. This is an opportunity to know more about your business and your orders that are being delivered to your customers and get them there in perfect order and perfect condition.

Scott W. Luton [00:43:42]:

Love that. What a great sentiment to wrap the show on. I can see Richie pitching on the pitching mound now as he kind of tries to figure out what the batter is expecting, what he knows, what he doesn't know. It's part of the pitcher psychology. We'll touch on that next show. But I thought kind of what Richie and Karin was saying, I want to revisit what Kara said. The tide mission to pioneer beyond what we thought possible. And, man, the art of the possible has been changing dramatically in recent years.

Scott W. Luton [00:44:11]:

So while the challenges, the complexities and the bad actors are great, together we're greater. And I appreciate what Richie and the Tive team are doing. Richie Daigle, enterprise account executive with Ty. Richie, so great to have you here today.

Richie Daigle [00:44:26]:

Thank you. Scott and Karin, I've really enjoyed the conversation, and I look forward to the next one.

Scott W. Luton [00:44:31]:

I do, too. Karin Bursa, wonderful conversation. Two in the same week. I really enjoyed your perspective here today.

Karin Bursa [00:44:37]:

Thanks for having me. And Richie thanks for the education.

Scott W. Luton [00:44:41]:

I feel like I'm leaving with a new PhD in cargo theft here today.

Richie Daigle [00:44:46]:

You two are too kind.

Scott W. Luton [00:44:47]:

So, folks. But here, that's not good enough. Just, just being more informed and being more educated isn't good enough? It doesn't cut it. We got to take one thing that Rich has shared here today and put it into action, right? Our teams, our organizations, our suppliers, our customers. Not only are they expected, they're waiting for business to be done better and easier, with less friction and certainly less theft. So take one thing that Richie shared, put it in action. Deeds, not words, here today. And on that note, on behalf the entire team here at Supply Chain Now, hey, be sure to connect, Richie.

Scott W. Luton [00:45:20]:

Check out that white paper. Join us on October 16. Connect with Karin across social as well. But whatever you do, hey, do good, give forward, be the change that's needed, and we'll see you next time right back here at Supply Chain Now. Thanks, everybody.

Narrator [00:45:35]:

Thanks for being a part of our Supply Chain Now community. Check out all of our programming at supplychainnow.com and make sure you subscribe to Supply Chain Now anywhere you listen to podcasts and follow us on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter and Instagram. See you next time on Supply Chain Now.