Lauren: Welcome to this episode of High School Counseling
Conversations. I have a great interview ahead for you. You are
going to love hearing from Kriya. She has been running the
circuits as a speaker at ASCA and a lot of state conferences
and Departments of Education. She has probably been around
your area, if you're over here on the East Coast where I am.
She's actually from Asheville, North Carolina, which is not far
from me. So we connected about that a little bit off air before
we got into it. Let me introduce you to Kriya and so you can
learn a little bit about her before we dive into the
conversation.
Originally inspired by her personal journey through Teen
Addiction, Kriya Lendzion is fiercely dedicated to helping
educators prevent and intervene early in students' addictive and
self destructive behaviors. She combines her 23 years as a
school counselor with additional expertise as a licensed clinical
addiction specialist, certified prevention specialist and
adolescent therapist, providing schools across the globe with
drug and alcohol education, professional development,
curriculum and consultation.
Like I said, she resides in beautiful Asheville, North
Carolina, and you are going to get so much information from our
conversation. You're going to realize what is even out there,
what the trends are, because I don't know if you are like me,
but it's hard to keep up with that stuff. There is a lot going
on, a lot of information that's always changing, and she kind of
opens up our conversation with what's trending right now, what
do we need to be aware of when it comes to substances being
used and abused. We talk about prevention and treatment and
kind of what our role should be as school counselors, because
we're not licensed in all of these things. We don't have all
these accolades that Kriya has. She has a lot of experience
talking about them and dealing with them with students, but
that is not necessarily the role we need to play as school
counselors, but we have a huge role to play with our students.
And you know, we love something practical that we can take away.
So from this episode, you're going to walk away with
strategies in terms of the conversations you're going to
have with students and the resources that you're going to
use with students, parents, community members. You're going
to love it. It's jam packed. Go ahead and buckle up for this
conversation with Kriya. Let's roll.
You got into this profession to make a difference in your
students' lives, but you're spread thin by all the things
that keep getting added to your to do list. I can't create more
hours in the day, but I can invite you into my counselor
clique where you'll finally catch your breath. Come with me
as we unpack creative ideas and effective strategies that'll
help you be the counselor who leaves a lifelong impact on your
students. I'm Lauren Tingle, your high school counseling hype
girl, here to help you energize your school counseling program
and remind you of how much you love your job.
Well, welcome to the show Kriya. I'm so excited. This is a topic
that we haven't talked about on the podcast before, and I know
that you are a wealth of information around just drug and
alcohol awareness for our teenagers and what we need to
know as school counselors. So I'm excited for what you're
going to share with us today.
Kriya: Thank you. It's my honor and pleasure to be here.
Lauren: Great. Well, let's start big picture. Let's get right
into it. Tell us what we need to know right now about trending
substances and stuff to be aware of, because you're the expert.
So like, what are the trends you're seeing, and like, what
should we know right off the bat?
Kriya: Yes, I am the drug lady. That's what students call me.
Lauren: What a great title!
Kriya: I have to explain that in Trader Joe's sometimes though,
when parents come up and I'm like, let me explain what that
means. But the quick and dirty of it is that, unfortunately,
you know, all the the most trending substances among youth
Lauren: You put it in air quotes, because you hear that a
are, even though they're things that we know that we're familiar
with, like caffeine and, you know, weed, marijuana, or THC
and and nicotine and alcohol, like they're all still around.
But what's happening is that they are, they're getting
stronger. They're being mutated and made stronger and packaged
up in these stronger, you know, more intense forms and in these,
like, stealthy ways of delivering them. So they're
they're becoming easier to conceal. They're being made more
and more appealing to young people in particular. We know,
you know, it's no secret that they're marketing. It's obvious
that they're marketing to young people, and you add social media
and all the messaging that they are just soaking in, you put all
that together, and it means that these substances are becoming
more addictive and more dangerous. So there are damages
happening from nicotine and just weed.
lot. It's just...
Kriya: Yeah, they are being made synthetically. They're being
chemically extracted, like THC is not, it's it's not natural.
Let me be clear, when some when a kid is vaping something, it is
not the natural plant, you know, 99% of the time that they're
vaping. It has been this chemically extracted just THC,
you know, which is one of the cannabinoids in cannabis. It's
missing all the other parts of the plant that kind of balance
each other out and have kept people from having mental health
issues, or, you know, from getting sick off of it.
And now it's this really intensified, chemically mutated
version that is now up to, you know, in the 90th percentile of
THC in one of these products. And to put that into
perspective, in the in the 70s, there was 1% THC in the plant,
and now the plant has been modified to be 20 to 30% THC.
And THC is what makes, you know, a kid, quote unquote, high. You
know, it has the psychoactive effects, but it also is what we
know now causes cognitive deficits, like damages the
growth and the, there's less gray matter in the frontal lobes
of kids that are using regularly. They don't have the
same brain connections. Their brains have to work a lot harder
to do you know the same things and that cannabis also sticks to
their brain longer because they have more cannabinoid receptors
in their brain. So a kid that gets high on a on a Friday night
is still not on point for the test on Tuesday. And they don't
know that.
Lauren: I would say so, because I, I mean, not that this is my
world, either, but, like, that's a lot of information that has
even changed over time. Like, saying this is what it used to
be, they didn't know what it used to be, and they don't know
what it is now. But I think something that sounds like it
has stayed the same over time is the messaging that this is cool.
This is not bad for you. This is attractive for any young to old
people who want to engage in this. I mean, they're expert
marketers, the the packaging, the colors, the, it makes it
look fun, and that hasn't changed. I mean, you watch Mad
Men and see how they were marketing cigarettes back then
is, it's the same.
Kriya: Yeah. And let's put that on the shelf, for sure, because
I'm gonna pull that down in a minute. I definitely want to
talk about the marketing of all these things, but the mental
health impacts are also becoming really clear. So other than, so
cognitively, we see frontal lobe damage happening, and that is
with nicotine as well, adolescent nicotine users having
some damage done to the frontal lobe growth as well as to
serotonin production in the brain and limbic circuitry in
the brain. So with both of those products, there's mood impacts.
There is long and this is long term, because we have to
remember that that adolescent use is really different from
adult use. And where it might kind of muck up our brains or
change the brain chemistry, and then we've got to level it out
if we when, you know when we stop, for them using substances
regularly, or strong substances. So we know that binge use, like
a kid drinks rarely or uses cannabis rarely, but then they
hit their brain with this really intense, potent version of it.
It can do the same damage as if they were using regularly, like
in smaller amounts.
Lauren: They don't hear this. I mean, this is to me, this makes
sense of like, their brain is still forming, it has, it's
still learning and growing, or we're stunting it with these
chemicals. And, I mean, you would have scared me out of my
pants in high school, if I would have heard that, you know, that
like, Well, I'm not going to be ready for the test next Tuesday
because my brain won't be able to handle it.
Kriya: And the piece that's really, that's really
fascinating, and this is where we start thinking about our ins
as counselors, is that it's showing to not just have
cognitive impacts, you know. So we see a kid who has executive
functioning issues already, you know, ADHD kids, like those kids
are actually more at risk for using and more at risk for
developing a dependency, because if in the moment, it makes them
feel like they can focus, you know, or makes them feel better.
But it's the same with mental health. Is that we've got a lot
of kids that are using because they are under the illusion
that, you know, because for a couple hours it makes them not
feel depressed or anxious or stressed, but meanwhile, that
nicotine is damaging serotonin production in the brain, that
cannabis is making an impact on the part of their brain that has
like awe and wonder in everyday things. You know, it's over
stimulating and over stimulating that part of the brain so they
start to feel bored, and what we call anhedonia, right, which is
the inability to feel just like pleasure and interest and joy in
everyday moments.
And if you take that away, that equals depression, you know
equals boredom and and depression. And again, these
impacts are not just in the moment, right? Because their
brain, like I was saying, as our brains clear out, you know, and
kind of can restabilize, their brains are changed by using
substances in a way that that can last into adulthood, you
know, or long, long term, by just what they're doing right,
right now.
And then we've got, you know, alcohol is coming, and, like
every cocktail and childhood favorite drink comes in a spiked
version and a pretty, pretty bottle, and, like, really
strong, you know, some of those are three times what a beer is,
you know, they're like, really strong amounts of alcohol. And
then we've got lacings happening, right? Or poisoning.
So it's fentanyl getting into pills and powders, and we have
xylazine and nidazine. I don't know if you're familiar with
that, but just to fill the listeners in, is that, and
everybody knows what fentanyl is now, I think, right? So, so
that's, you know, about 50 times stronger than, than heroin is,
right? And then we have illicit fentanyl getting, getting put
into pills that look just like, I mean, I've seen them, I've
held them, that look just like the real thing. They look like
Adderall and Percocet and OxyContin and Xanax. Those are,
those are popular ones.
But we have, so xylazine is, they call it tranq. It's a
tranquilizer that is illicit, and it's put into a substance to
kind of prolong the high of it, to create a better, a bigger
high. But it is addictive in it of its of itself and and can
also sedate and shut down the nervous system, and is not
responsive to Narcan. You know, if somebody was going to use
Narcan to try to revive someone that had overdosed, it would
respond to the fentanyl, but not to the to the xylazine. And
then, God, I hate to even mention that this is a thing,
but nitazene is kind of newer on the scene, and it is, it is an
opiate. It is not legal anywhere. It's it's being made
completely illicitly, and it is about 40 times stronger than
fentanyl.
Lauren: I can't even imagine.
Kriya: I know. And so whereas fentanyl, there's a lot of myths
out there about kind of what, what can be in a vape, for
example. So cocaine, fentanyl, meth, like those things, cannot
actually be activated in a vape. The vape doesn't get it to the
right temperature. So even though they may find it in a
vape, it's not, it's, it's, it's not getting into a kid's system.
But nidazine can be in a vape, and so can GHB, which is a
central nervous system depressant, so can PCP and
ketamine, so other hallucinogens. So some of those
things, we've had some pretty intense cases on the on the east
coast where I am, where kids as early as as eighth, we had an
eighth grader that that had PCP in his vape and had a stroke,
coma, and is now brain, has some brain damage. He lived, but
brain damage, and has some paralysis on one side of his
body.
Lauren: I mean, I don't know how you engage in all of these
stories, because I'm like sick to my stomach just thinking of
how this can affect families and students and schools and
communities when, when even one student is affected in this way,
whether that's taken down unsuspectingly or or death, or
whatever that is, that can rock a community.
Kriya: It can. And these are often, you know, and I have, I
have developed a lot of relationships with with parents
and siblings, and, you know, families of kids that were lost.
And what we're seeing, too, when we're talking about the mental
health impacts, is that it, particularly with THC, is
because it is, it is really the equivalent of cannabis crack.
You know what kids are vaping, you know, when they're dabbing,
like with a dab pen, and it's a cannabis concentrate, or it's
any of the liquids that they're vaping, it's, again, it's not
the plant. It is not what, what parents you know, or even
teachers are familiar with, you know, from, quote, unquote, our
day, right? It is, it's, it's something new. And so we're
seeing mental health impacts like, like never before. So kids
that were not predisposed to psychosis, developing psychotic
disorders from, from THC. And kids that I know, that, you
know, started vaping at 16, and they're the, I mean, and these
aren't just Lauren, like the, they're not just, quote unquote,
those kids. I think that's, you know, that's the, the thing we
have to remember as educators and be teaching parents, is that
these are captain of a lacrosse team, 4.0 class president kind
of kids as well that can fall into the addiction and the
tragedies that that some of these substances are bringing
with them.
Lauren: That was a very comprehensive overview. Like,
those are so many different buckets of things that
counselors need to just be aware of. Like, have this on your
radar, you know, add that to the stuff that we're supposed to be
experts at. What do you think that counselors role, like, what
should their role be? As they are, you know, they're in a
school building, so they're not necessarily disciplinarians by
nature when they're supposed to be school counseling, and
they're not in a therapy setting, like a residential
place. So like, what is a counselor's role with all of
this in the school building? What should they be doingwith
their students?
Kriya: Yeah, I mean, I think, I think we can play an extremely
powerful role in all this. I mean, one can be just on the
prevention side of things, is that we, you know, we can be the
ones that are, that are doing educational, passive, you know,
campaigns always. But, but I, I'm a huge fan of peer led
programming. I mean, it's just proven to be so powerful when it
comes to things around mental health or around, you know, kind
of risky decision making, especially when there's, there's
such a strong social media, you know, media messages coming in,
and the peer pressure can be so unhealthy, like, like,
distorted. I mean, it's misinformed, and they're missing
the knowledge, and they're getting really twisted,
distorted stuff from social media. So what the what they're
passing around can be really, really unhealthy, dangerous,
misinformation. So having peers really be the ones to, I mean,
design it from the roots up. You know, like, what do you think
your your peers need to hear? You know, why are they going
there, the ones that are? What would they need in order to not
go there? What would they need to hear in what kind of language
and what kind of form? Like, they're the best ones, you know,
some of us say, I think I'm pretty cool.
Lauren: But they're cooler among their peers.
Kriya: They think I'm 10 years younger than I am, just because
that's how I dress and talk, whether it's positive or
negative. But yeah, hearing, hearing from, from them, my very
favorite thing is to actually use, I love to use the kids who
have gotten in trouble. They are the best sources of, put them in
a focus group and say, What would you have needed? What
would make a difference? You know, I think we missed that
opportunity. But so we can advise some of that. You know,
we can kind of be the catalyst and the advisors for students.
Lauren: Can I say on that? I feel like students have had this
big shift in owning their mental health and being really big
advocates for what they need and learning about it themselves.
And you see a lot of that heading up, like a local Nami
chapter in their schools, or like coming to adults in their
school saying, hey, we need this. I feel like, if, if we're
seeing that revolution with mental health with them, like
it's possible that we can see a revolution around drug and
alcohol awareness too, I think.
Kriya: Yeah, I mean, it loses its power, they're already
sensitive to, defensive of, adults taking over and doing
everything to them and for them. So so we really want to help
them be empowered and take take the lead on it. So, so I think
we can lead that.
And then there's, there are, some of the the best
interventions I've done have been empowering teachers to
infuse lessons into their curriculum. The science teachers
talking about adolescent brain science and how they're wired
for habit forming like no other time, right? And the impact that
drugs can have on them.
Lauren: And they can probably have pretty cool conversations
in their classroom with their students, because they already
have that relationship. And the students feel comfortable with
those peers in the classroom a lot of times. And so it's,
they've already developed that rapport to jump right in and ask
questions and have honest conversation.
Kriya: And social studies classes can talk about media,
media's impact, and brainwashing tactics that they use and that,
you know, the effect that they have. They can talk about, they
can have debates of over legalization and the pros and
the cons, you know. So there's ways for us to, I think, kind of
catalyze that in the in the classroom. But then, you know
us, even in in high school, I know we don't, you know, push
into classrooms in the same way that that they gave us an
elementary school to do. So sometimes it's advisory. I've
played a role in a lot of schools have advisory times, and
they're really because they, you know, they've gotten like, okay,
school connectedness, huge protective factor. And schools,
you know, kids being connected to each other and to a caring
adult, and we know that that matters, right? So sometimes
activities can be woven into like advisory time, you know, or
things where, and it can be things like values exploration,
and goal setting. When we can guide them in values exploration
and have them identify the things that that matter the most
to them, what they believe in, who they want to be, what they
want for themselves.
Lauren: I love that. They don't get enough time to do that, that
blank space to think and be disconnected from social media
and their phones and like think, sit in that and wonder what they
personally believe.
Kriya: Right. And so whether that's in a small group, or it's
in a one on one with a you know that we're counseling a kiddo,
or we're finding a way to get into a classroom to do that, I
find that most kids have fun. Teenagers have fun doing that
because they're just trying to, they're trying to figure that
out anyway, right? That's where they're at. And so helping them
kind of get clear on that, at least who they are this week.
But and then they can engage in, okay, so how, like, if those
things, we know, if those are on the front burner of a kid's
mind, then they're gonna they're more likely to sift every
decision they make through them, from who they date and who they
befriend to whether they start having sex to whether they do
drugs, to what classes they take, right? So we can encourage
them to think about, okay, so how would using substances, how
could that fit in with your values, let's be honest. And how
could it contradict them or start to work against them.
Lauren: And kind of putting a mirror up to them and saying,
Well, if you say, these are your values, but these are the things
you're doing, they're not aligning.
Kriya: Right exactly. So, so this is just classic
motivational interviewing kind of stuff, right? We want to help
them get the discrepancy that this could cause for them. And
if a kid is already going there, you know, we can have these
conversations one on one with them too. The same kind of thing
is sort of look at their values and say, okay, you know what,
how is this contradicting, and what would it take for you to,
you know, to be more congruent with with who you want to be?
Lauren: Yeah, even open their eyes to like this, this might be
So I think we also, you know, we can, there's some, some short
action things we can do. And I am going to make sure that
everybody's got some resources that I've created, but I will
have kids look at again, I'm not, I'm not being an addiction
a problem when we score that against what the average is or
a licensed therapist in this role, but they can still look at
like the criteria for for a use disorder. And I've developed a
little self assessment that I use with all addictive behavior,
honestly, gaming or self harm or anything, and they can ask
themselves kind of those 11 questions about like the impact
that it's had on them. And I have another chart that I use
what your peers are answering. You know, this is just for you,
that shows kind of experimental versus responsible, quote
unquote, use versus problem use. And I'll have them look at it
and just answer the questions for themselves, you know, or
circle things on the chart that I made that maybe they say, Oh,
well, okay, responsible use is I know the sources of what I use.
So I'm circling that one, and I can take it or leave it. I'm
but we want you to know kind of where you're measuring up right
circling that one. Oh yeah. But over here, I've had some
consequences to my health. I'm not breathing as well since I
started vaping, like during soccer practice. Or I got busted
at, you know, at home for that. So let me circle those things.
So we kind of lead them to just kind of hand it to them and let
them do the self examination and the questions themselves, and
then use that to springboard onto some conversation about, we
can give them the diagnosis. I mean, we can say, well, they say
that six plus yeses is a severe substance use disorder, you
know, or and see what they think about that.
against your peers.
Kriya: And I love change rulers so much. Some of these classic
like MI tools. So, you know, asking a kid, so again, we're
now, we're talking about, like, tier three interventions, right?
When, when a kid has already been identified as as using, or
they've self referred themselves, and they're being
honest with us about their use, right? Is that asking them like,
okay, so on a on a scale of one to 10, and I love this, because
you can, you don't have to have any gadgets.
Lauren: Right. We're just talking.
Kriya: On a scale of one to 10, you know, how much do you think
you're vaping is, is negatively impacting your life? Or on a
scale of one to 10, like, how much would you, you know, are
you interested in, in quitting nicotine, quitting nicotine
pouches, right? And so if a kid says, Well, four, you know, then
we go, okay, so, why is it a four and not a one? You know,
tell me about that. Or what would, what would an eight or
nine look like? You know, what would it take, do you think,
what would need to be happening for you to want to change that
much, you know, just feel like or for it to be impacting your
life that much? What would an eight or 10 and a problem look
like for you?
Lauren: I love the scaling questions. It reminds me of an
interview I did with Dr. Sabella where we talked about solution
focus. It's like we're starting somewhere. We're identifying
somewhere to start, and getting to hear it from their
perspective. It's like there's no right or wrong. This is your
opinion, and we're gonna work with it wherever we come from.
And, yeah, look, you're not at one, okay? Or if you are, you're
not at zero, you're starting somewhere. Like we can move
along this path. And I like being able to see and chart
their growth with that.
Kriya: And two roads I like to use too, which is kind of
rolling with their resistance, you know? I'll use this when a
kid is like, well, I don't, you know, I don't want to change
anything. The only problem I have is that the school has a
problem with it, or my parents have problem with it, right?
Lauren: Sounds like you've heard that before.
Kriya: Never, yeah. And I worked in juvenile justice, too, so
I've heard it all, yeah. But so I go, Okay, I hear that you
don't want to, you know, you're fine with your use. You don't
want to change anything. So let's just, let's just follow
this, right? So let's say you don't change anything about what
you're doing right now. Let's just let, so what does that look
like in a month, or three months or, and I take it down the road
and I will, I will take a piece of paper and literally draw this
out with them, you know, sometimes. I say, Okay, what if
you change just one little thing? And what might that be?
Maybe it's just you don't use at school, maybe that's your one
change, right? Or you're only using three days a week, you
know, instead of five, seven days a week, or whatever. Let's
track that. What do you think that would look like in one
month, three months, you know?
And so, you know, it's hard when it's in black and white for them
to not be a, turn a little bit on the dial of like, okay, well,
maybe I could just try, and then that's a win, right? For a kid
that is, that is, is, is, like, no, I really like this. You
know, the same as as when we if we've got that chart in front of
us that shows experimental, responsible and problem use and
use disorders, we can at least say, if a kid's like, no,
they're not gonna say, I'm gonna quit, you know? I mean, of
course we wanna bring them there, but if they don't, we can
say, Okay, well, then what would it take for you to stay in this
Responsible Use lane?
Lauren: Yeah, and you're not going into these conversations
thinking, yeah, they're gonna change right this second. Like,
none of us change our habits overnight. And like, that's hard
to do, so yeah, just getting them even to a point where they
can think, and this is hard for a high schooler too. They think
about themselves, think outside of themselves, and see a future
that's a few stages ahead, or, like you said, even if it's a
week ahead, a month ahead, like, that's a little bit we're having
to process. And, that's also scary like, when they've been
using for however long that their brain is cognitively
changing, like, this is only going to get harder to make
change and to be motivated to change.
Kriya: Yeah. And so, and the other thing that I love doing,
and this can be both preventative and kind of as a
response, as an intervention, is, I've got this, this chart of
needs, like these six essential adolescent needs, which are,
let's see if I can remember off the top of my head, coping,
confidence, purpose, fun, connection, control, control and
agency, I think, of their lives. So I, you know, got this little
chart that I use, and so I will use that as a preventative tool
and go in high school I use the 40 developmental assets list, if
you're familiar with that. And I bring that out as an activity
with kids and say, Okay, how are you meeting your your needs? You
know, like, what are the ways that you meet your needs with
and where are the holes, kind of in in all of these areas for
you?
And then talking about, like, if you have a hole in any of these
areas, then you're kind of at risk of anything that that comes
along that fits in there best, you know, that works better than
anything else you you can get attached to, you know. And so
that's why we're trying to be really conscientious of what we
what we meet those needs with, especially right now, when your
brain is wiring, you know, connection to things that that
work for you, like no other time. So you can use that as a
preventative tool to sort of help kids brainstorm and talk
with each other. You know, it's like, again, if you're in an
advisory in a small class on how they can fill those needs and
how they do. But if you're talking with a kid that's using,
I just pull that out and say, okay, so you know, what is this
doing for you? What are you getting from using? You know,
what is it giving you that you want? What is it taking away
that you don't want? And then we use all that empathy, right,
that we're all skilled at, and instead of the the judgment that
they expect from adults, right? First, we say, You know what? It
makes sense that you know your parents are fighting every night
and that you're getting a high to tune that out.
Lauren: And that might be the first time they've heard someone
say, I see your situation, and I see why that would be hard and
why you're filling it with something else.
Kriya: Yeah, and then, and then, once, you know, they they see
we're not going to judge and they don't have to defend,
right, then we can sort of pull them into an invitation and be
like, well, but you know, I know that if we don't have something
else to help us cope, then, then that can become the only tool in
our toolbox, and then it becomes a dependency. And that's when
we're talking about it being a problem, which I can tell you
don't want to have a problem, right? You know, you don't want
to have an addiction, I'm assuming? So, so then we can
invite them into brainstorming, like, Hey, you willing to
brainstorm some other ideas with me about how, how you could meet
the same need, you know, so that you might not need this, or at
least develop a dependency on it.
And then, and talking also about, like, how, how use, can
flip, can turn on itself, and highlighting that, it's like,
oh, well, it's interesting. I noticed, you know, you said that
you were, you were using because it helped you feel connected,
like, better in your skin, and more confident around, around
your friends. But I also just heard you say that you're,
you're feeling bad about the reputation it's giving you. So
it sounds like it's kind of turning, turning against this
reason you are using it for.
Lauren: Yeah. So a lot of reflecting back, kind of, some
of the contradicting statements they're giving you.
You've already given us so many good like, scripts and examples
where I know counselors, when they're ready to, like, dive
into a conversation like this with a student, I think our
conversation here is going to be really helpful for them to,
like, play back, think back, and listen to and even just hearing
you talk is like, I hope it's building people's confidence.
Because this is a sensitive issue, like you might feel like,
well, I don't want to go in the classroom and talk about it. I
can't have a whole school assembly where I'm the one
talking about it. I don't, I don't know enough about this.
They know more about it than than I do. But like, no, these
counselors are listening to this. They're willing to
probably go to your website and see your resources. Like,
there's a lot out there, and they can educate themselves, and
they're going to be 10% more than the students are going to
have more information, and that's going to make them the
expert.
And then along, like what you said, with having that empathy,
having those natural counseling skills, them listening and
asking questions, is going to be huge in helping a student work
through this and motivate them to change their ways, like we
motivate and help change and help reflect their thinking and
change their thinking for the betterment of themselves. We do
that with all different topics. And so I feel like drug and
alcohol awareness is no different from that. Like, if we
have skills that we can help students with in certain places,
we can do it here too. I just like a little pep talk, because
I feel like people are probably intimidated to have these
conversations.
Kriya: Sure, and keep in mind, I mean, sure it's helpful when you
can go to a training and get, like, what's the latest research
on all things weed, you know.
Lauren: But it's probably always changing and hard to keep up
with.
Kriya: Trust me, I have to recreate my presentations. I
don't have that thing that topic, where it's, I'm like, I
can pull that thing out of my pocket. I have to always tweak
it. But it's okay that you're not, you know that you're not
the expert, expert on it. Because it's okay to say, I
mean, if you start with a kid and say, What do you know about
the impact of of weed on a, you know, on on a 16 year old brain,
you know? And say, like, I don't know everything, but I, you
know, I learned a couple things. I've heard a couple things along
the way. Like, do you mind if, are you, are you down with kind
of hearing what I have, you know, my input on that? But, but
then we can say, well, let's, let's look it up. Because I
know, I do know the trusted places to go to look for
research on that. Like, can we take five minutes and look some
of that up together? Because I don't know.
Lauren: Is it on tick tock? Is that where we should find it?
Because that's probably where they would direct you, right?
Kriya: Right, right.
Lauren: Around that messaging, this is kind of like the last
big topic I kind of want to hit on is, how do we make our voices
as adults or people who care about our students, how do we
make our messaging stronger and heard when there are so many
other messages out there that are overpowering them? From
their peers and from the media and maybe even their family,
like, how do, how do we get them to listen to the real facts?
Kriya: Yeah, and that's hard, right? I mean, think of how much
they, they say with the average that these kids are online nine
hours a day average, right? In high school? So, you know, I, I
used to say we have to talk louder and more often than these
voices are, but like...
Lauren: That's a lot of time!
And so just asking, and these, this is great when we can do
Kriya: That's a lot of time, right, right, right. So I think,
I think the key is, is remembering who they are right
like a whole media literacy, like lesson. And again, teachers
as adolescents, and kind of taking advantage of that. Like
typical adolescent values, what do they hate more than anything?
can weave this into, kind of seamlessly, you know, into into
Being conned, manipulated, controlled. They have their
hypocrisy meters are on, like, super, super blast, right? So
they are looking for every hole in what adults in particular are
telling them and doing. And this is actually the beautiful thing,
you know, that we can use, because we can lead them to
analyze and disassemble, you know, these messages that
they're getting hammered with by using their values, you know,
against them.
curriculum, but, but even just sitting down one on one with a
kid or in a small group of some kind, we can ask, you know, what
messages do you get about substances in your world? And
what is the, what do you know about how they advertise? You
know? What are the, what are the agendas of these companies?
So I asked a question. I had never asked the question this
way, and I did this in a recent high school class, where I said,
Okay, so let's just like, I threw my PowerPoint out the
window, you know about vaping. And I said, Well, okay, so
let's, let's imagine for a minute you guys, you are
executives and marketing people for a vaping company. And I
literally had them get in small groups. And I said, Okay, I want
you to figure out what is your agenda, for one. And they all
obviously came to, like, I want to make mad money, right? Like,
are they trying to better the world, take care of the
environment, you know, make us better people? No, they want to
make mad money, right? Okay, so if that's your agenda, then what
are you going to do to make that happen? If you're a vaping
company, and they came up with everything that exists. And
these were, these were, actually, I'm lying. This was a
middle school class, so they hadn't even come across some of
the things that are out there yet. So they didn't even know
that vapes now, I didn't even mention this, that they are
gamifying them. You can, you can pair them with your phone and
look at pictures. You can play Tetris and Pac Man on them. You
can, you can count your your puffs and compete in a in a puff
competition, take your points for each puff and get get swag
for them.
Lauren: I wish people could see my eye roll right now. Like,
what??
Kriya: There are collector cards, there are Bluetooth
speakers. There are, this is the form that vapes are coming in
now. So when I said to the kids, what would you do, they came up
with that. They didn't even know that gamified vapes exist. They
said, Oh, well, I would, I would try to market kids. I would use
celebrities and people that they think are cool. I would use
rappers. I would use musicians. I would get on social media and
use influencers. I would use these kind of graphics, this
kind of language.
Lauren: They are gonna make mad money, huh?
Kriya: Right? And I was like, okay, so they and, and, but it
it only took a few minutes for them to have these. And then
when I showed them the pictures of what existed, they were
pissed.
Lauren: They realized they were getting conned.
Kriya: And it was perfect, because I saw, they were like,
what do we do? This is wrong! They're so mad and and so, I
mean, granted, those are eighth graders, but, you know, I have
now since done this with, you know, with older kids, and
that's how we do it.
Lauren: I think we all would feel that way if we, if it's
something we hadn't thought about. Like, I put myself in
those shoes too.
Kriya: And they're knowing that none of, there are only 23 vapes
that are legal FDA approved in this country. Three companies,
any of those flavors, all of them are not legal. Not a single
one. Wow. And the fact and the fact that those like elf bars
and the ones the vape the disposable vapes that they're
all familiar with that they're using the most, those these
vapes have up to 3000 cigarettes worth of nicotine in them. It's
obscene.
So when they find out that that's what it is that nicotine
has this impact on creating and worsening anxiety and depression
and stress response, and that THC, you know that cannabis
companies are using the same thing. They're starting to
market and and they're making it that advertising makes it look
like you have everything in the world, that you have happiness
and friends and everything and and what's the what's the truth
about what happens when you really get hooked on this stuff,
which is getting increasingly addictive, how it creates the
opposite. Again, they get pissed the hypocrisy of that. So I'm
like, What do you not see in the advertising that is true about
these things? So, so it's really about coming back to like they
need to we, because we can't control it on the outside
anymore. No matter what kind of policy, discipline policy, or
how strict, or how, you know, anybody wants to have this, SROs
can look through a backpack and look through a locker, and they
look like inhalers and key fobs and lipsticks, and you can't
even.
Lauren: They'll always be reinvented to the next thing. We
have to start it at the at the intellectual level.
Kriya: And now they've got Zins that just dissolve in the lip,
and nobody knows that they're there, and they're heavy dosing
themselves all day long with nicotine. So they're going to
have to have the internal buy in to not want and to and to resent
what those messages are are doing to them. And so similarly
with with family. I mean, it's, it's a trickier conversation,
but you can still say, well, so what messages do you get about
substance use in your family? You know, what have you seen as
the pros and the cons of how your family members use
substances. You know, what do you want to do? We all want
things that we that we want to keep and things that we don't
from our parents. You know, how do you how do you feel about
your father's drinking? And what do you want your own
relationship with alcohol to be like? And what are you going to
do? What commitments are you going to make to yourself, and
how are you going to uphold those? Because it's really, I
think with adolescents, it's really important that they get
because, because they have had the failing of of adult, I mean,
counselors and health teachers, right, has been that whole like,
like, the tarred lung in the jar kind of thing, you know, like
the scared tactics.
Lauren: Okay, old news, right? This is, this doesn't relate to
me.
Kriya: Yeah. I'm like, Okay, so in 90 years from now, if I keep
doing this, which I'm not going to do, I might, that might
happen. So understanding that no one means to be an addict, no
one means to overdose, not most of the time, right? So how are,
how are they going to keep that from being them? And then this
is the difference between when someone tries something and it
seems all good in the beginning, you know, that's the that's the
trickiness of it, right? Is that it might look like it's meeting
your needs and feeling good and all that, you know, and and that
every addiction starts that way. You know, so, so they really do
need to, need to know what their own risk factors are, and be
able to talk about those and how to how to overpower them with
protective factors as well.
Lauren: Yeah, there is so much out there for us to understand
as school counselors, but I feel like what you have given us here
is a really good intro to what's out there, what we need to be
aware of, even just some of that terminology. And I mean this
rolls off your tongue like you know you know it, and we're
hearing it, and the more we hear it, the more familiar we're
going to get with it. But I just really appreciate all your
really practical things, like just conversation starters,
things to do in classrooms with students, just even thinking how
we relate to them on a topic that can be sensitive or that
they can get defensive about. I mean, there are lots of things
like that that we're talking to them in high school, but this
one just feels trickier. It feels like it falls in that
discipline category, and we're not DSS or child protective
services, like we're not a lot of roles, but we can be someone
who's still an advocate for students, who still helps, we
still help them inspire change in themselves. And so I find
this conversation really encouraging, and I hope that
counselors listening feel the same way.
Kriya: Good. Yeah, I know that it can feel, whenever I do a
presentation, it's always like, Okay, so just so you know, we're
about to go into some really dismal stuff, and it's gonna
feel like...
Lauren: It's gonna get worse before it gets better.
Kriya: And you're gonna, might, might feel a little teary and a
little nauseous. Okay, that's gonna happen first, and then
we're gonna talk about, you know, what, what we can do.
Because we really, we really can, and we can empower parents
as well, right? I mean, parents don't know what they don't know.
So that's one of the other roles that we can really play, is by,
by helping parents have the information, you know, which
most of them, once they have it, care about it.
Lauren: Right, I was gonna say they're gonna run with it too,
and they're gonna tell their friends, and they're gonna do
the research. Like, the more we can empower all of these
stakeholders, the broader the impact our work is gonna gonna
have.
Kriya: Yeah.
Lauren: Well, thank you for sharing all this. Where can
listeners find some of these resources that you talked about,
or where can they go to, like, continue learning more from the
vetted sources that you have?
Kriya: So on, on my website, it is kriyalendzion.com, I've got
what I think are the best of the best, you know, curated
resources that are on substance use. And I also have screen
help. That's another hot, hot topic. And there's, there's
places to stay on top of, like the latest data, you know, and
real good research, if you want to, you want, you know, you want
to have that in hand, and you want to be able to have that to
lead to kids. Because, well, so when they say everybody's doing
it, and you can actually pull up the data that shows that less
and less kids are doing it, and more kids are choosing to not
use, you know which is awesome. And I have a whole like VIP
section, and all you do, you go to where it says members only,
and you plug in your email, and the portal of awesomeness will
open, including all these resources that I use with
parents to help empower them with how you talk to your kids
about substances, how you create, like, family agreements
at home, around all of these things, how you respond if you
bust your kid. You know, I've got some tools that counselors
can share with their their parent community as well.
Lauren: This is great. That sounds so valuable. We'll
definitely link that in the show notes and make sure that they
can get to your website and find all those resources. They're
going to walk away from this really empowered, I think, to
have good conversations and keep learning more about this.
Kriya: I hope.
Lauren: Kriya, is there anything I didn't ask you about that you
feel like we still need to know, like we didn't hit on a topic?
Kriya: So the discipline piece, I think, is really important.
And you know, whenever I present this to school counselors, I
feel like I always have to give this caveat of like, I know you
think that this is the administrators thing. But we
really need to push our way to that table, because we, we are
the experts in the building on why kids are doing what they're
doing, right, on behavior and on changing that behavior. And we
know who's doing it, where, why, right? We know more than anybody
else.
So I think we really need to be partners in creating discipline
policies. Because if we know that, that most kids are using,
I mean, they start because, often because of just the desire
to belong, you know, and that they're figuring out identity
and these very natural adolescent needs for one, that
the majority of kids say that they continue using, and
especially the ones that develop problems because they are self
medicating, they're trying to meet their needs for for their
anxiety. They're trying to relieve their anxiety, their
depression, their stress. So it doesn't make you know the
traditional punitive policies that smack a kid on the hand and
they leave feeling shamed, feeling like they've got this
like bad kid identity. They go home, vape for three days and
come back and nothing has changed, right?
It's really important that we be at the table to look at, to
really pull out, okay, why is this kid, I think when a kid is
has gotten in trouble, that the administrators, the counselors,
I love having the medical staff and any other adults that
identify as being like, it might be a coach. It might be a, you
know, somebody that knows this kid, put that kid out on the
table. I mean, you know, like in black and white, and say, what's
going on for this kid? What do they need? You know, out of
those needs that I listed, right, whether it is just like
fun and activity or purpose or confidence, right? And what can
we do on our watch, on this campus, to to help the kid
better meet those needs? What can we point them towards? What
can we provide them? What resources can the the parents,
do the parents need to be able to do this better? But there's a
lot of, you know, growing movement of, and I'm coaching or
consulting increasingly, with schools on the on the policy
piece, because schools are starting to do more innovative
things that are based in again, if we know why kids are using,
that's what we want to address to change their behavior.
Lauren: Right, and we know what's not working, what we've
done for so many years in the past.
Kriya: It has backfired, right? Has even backfired.
Lauren: And that ends up being like when it's just the
administrator, like issuing out a consequence or something,
instead of looking at the whole child. I love what you're saying
about including those values pieces, because every kid is
different. Like, we need to press in on this confidence
button. Like, where can we grow their confidence in the school?
Give them more roles and responsibilities and leadership,
whatever that is, when you have those adults who know the
student around a table, you really could probably come up
with some really creative ways to help the student.
Kriya: Yeah, absolutely. And so I've seen, you know, school,
what I would, I suggest, are things around sometimes there
can be, there can be, like service learning projects. You
know, they can have conversations with people that
are struggling with addiction or that are struggling with lung,
you know, lung issues. They can do intensive, like research
projects on real kids like them and what has happened. They can
be peer educators. Part of their project is to do educational
programs for, you know, for for others on on campus. Of course,
we have, like, sort of, we can do short, brief motivational
interviewing style things right, where we're kind of checking in
on how we're not, we're not being substance use therapists
again, but we can again, help to sort of, at least get them maybe
to a point where they're receptive to some interventions,
or that they are they're wanting to make a change. We also, we
know that about 70% almost of kids that are vaping at this
point want to quit, especially particularly nicotine. They
didn't mean to get addicted, and they're angry about the fact
that they are.
Lauren: Then you show them all those other things in the
classroom, like you did, and they are fired up, I'm sure.
Kriya: But it's like, if we're gonna lead them to water, we
gotta give them the water. So you know, we as counselors can,
can be those advocates for the referrals, for their being other
like prevention specialists or intervention specialists or
cessation programs on campus, there's some great ones that I
list them all in the resources on my website. But things that
people can can get briefed, any staff member can get trained to
lead a cessation program, you know, after school. But we want
to have as much as we can these, these things happening on school
grounds, and we're going to be the strongest, most informed
voice to advocate for those things happening on campus.
Lauren: Yeah, that's a great point.
Kriya: To help kids change their use, yeah.
Lauren: Well, this was seriously awesome. I really appreciate you
taking some time to talk about this.
Kriya: Yeah, I appreciate it.
Lauren: We'll point them to all your resources there.
Kriya: Awesome.
Lauren: Thank you so much for being here.
Did I not tell you that was going to be amazing? All of
Kriya's resources that she talked about are linked in the
show notes, really easy to get to. I clicked through them. What
a great wealth of knowledge she was, and she's a bank full of
resources. Because I'm not going to have all of these things
memorized, I would be a little nervous to have these
conversations with students, but her resources are going to equip
you to have the conversations, have the hard conversations, and
know where to go next when you have this in front of you.
And chances are it's already been in front of you, this issue
does not only pertain to one type of student, as she
mentioned, but as you also know in your building, substance use
and abuse is not just for a certain type of student, it is
affecting all of our students, and so the more we can be
knowledgeable about the situation at hand, and the more
we can be empowered to have the conversations and to help
students understand what is going on around them, what's
going on in their brain as they're using and abusing
alcohol and drugs, the better resource that we can be to our
students and our families. So I know that you are going to take
away a lot from this conversation, and feel free to
reach out to Kriya. I know that she has so much information, and
she would be a great person to either bring into your school
for a PD, or just be someone to continue the conversation with,
ask her questions. So reach out and connect all of her resources
and all her contact information is in the show notes. We'll see
you next week.
Thanks for listening to today's episode of High School
Counseling Conversations. All the links I talked about today
can be found in the show notes and also at
counselorclique.com/podcast. Be sure to hit follow wherever you
listen to your podcasts, so that you never miss a new episode.
Connect with me over on Instagram. Feel free to send me
a DM @counselorclique, that's C, L, I, Q, U, E. I'll see you next
week.