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Lauren: Welcome to this episode
of High School Counseling

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Conversations. I have a great
interview ahead for you. You are

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going to love hearing from
Kriya. She has been running the

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circuits as a speaker at ASCA
and a lot of state conferences

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and Departments of Education.
She has probably been around

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your area, if you're over here
on the East Coast where I am.

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She's actually from Asheville,
North Carolina, which is not far

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from me. So we connected about
that a little bit off air before

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we got into it. Let me introduce
you to Kriya and so you can

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learn a little bit about her
before we dive into the

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conversation.

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Originally inspired by her
personal journey through Teen

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Addiction, Kriya Lendzion is
fiercely dedicated to helping

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educators prevent and intervene
early in students' addictive and

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self destructive behaviors. She
combines her 23 years as a

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school counselor with additional
expertise as a licensed clinical

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addiction specialist, certified
prevention specialist and

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adolescent therapist, providing
schools across the globe with

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drug and alcohol education,
professional development,

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curriculum and consultation.

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Like I said, she resides in
beautiful Asheville, North

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Carolina, and you are going to
get so much information from our

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conversation. You're going to
realize what is even out there,

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what the trends are, because I
don't know if you are like me,

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but it's hard to keep up with
that stuff. There is a lot going

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on, a lot of information that's
always changing, and she kind of

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opens up our conversation with
what's trending right now, what

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do we need to be aware of when
it comes to substances being

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used and abused. We talk about
prevention and treatment and

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kind of what our role should be
as school counselors, because

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we're not licensed in all of
these things. We don't have all

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these accolades that Kriya has.
She has a lot of experience

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talking about them and dealing
with them with students, but

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that is not necessarily the role
we need to play as school

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counselors, but we have a huge
role to play with our students.

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And you know, we love something
practical that we can take away.

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So from this episode, you're
going to walk away with

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strategies in terms of the
conversations you're going to

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have with students and the
resources that you're going to

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use with students, parents,
community members. You're going

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to love it. It's jam packed. Go
ahead and buckle up for this

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conversation with Kriya. Let's
roll.

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You got into this profession to
make a difference in your

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students' lives, but you're
spread thin by all the things

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that keep getting added to your
to do list. I can't create more

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hours in the day, but I can
invite you into my counselor

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clique where you'll finally
catch your breath. Come with me

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as we unpack creative ideas and
effective strategies that'll

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help you be the counselor who
leaves a lifelong impact on your

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students. I'm Lauren Tingle,
your high school counseling hype

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girl, here to help you energize
your school counseling program

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and remind you of how much you
love your job.

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Well, welcome to the show Kriya.
I'm so excited. This is a topic

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that we haven't talked about on
the podcast before, and I know

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that you are a wealth of
information around just drug and

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alcohol awareness for our
teenagers and what we need to

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know as school counselors. So
I'm excited for what you're

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going to share with us today.

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Kriya: Thank you. It's my honor
and pleasure to be here.

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Lauren: Great. Well, let's start
big picture. Let's get right

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into it. Tell us what we need to
know right now about trending

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substances and stuff to be aware
of, because you're the expert.

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So like, what are the trends
you're seeing, and like, what

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should we know right off the
bat?

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Kriya: Yes, I am the drug lady.
That's what students call me.

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Lauren: What a great title!

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Kriya: I have to explain that in
Trader Joe's sometimes though,

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when parents come up and I'm
like, let me explain what that

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means. But the quick and dirty
of it is that, unfortunately,

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you know, all the the most
trending substances among youth

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Lauren: You put it in air
quotes, because you hear that a

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are, even though they're things
that we know that we're familiar

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with, like caffeine and, you
know, weed, marijuana, or THC

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and and nicotine and alcohol,
like they're all still around.

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But what's happening is that
they are, they're getting

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stronger. They're being mutated
and made stronger and packaged

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up in these stronger, you know,
more intense forms and in these,

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like, stealthy ways of
delivering them. So they're

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they're becoming easier to
conceal. They're being made more

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and more appealing to young
people in particular. We know,

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you know, it's no secret that
they're marketing. It's obvious

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that they're marketing to young
people, and you add social media

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and all the messaging that they
are just soaking in, you put all

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that together, and it means that
these substances are becoming

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more addictive and more
dangerous. So there are damages

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happening from nicotine and just
weed.

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lot. It's just...

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Kriya: Yeah, they are being made
synthetically. They're being

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chemically extracted, like THC
is not, it's it's not natural.

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Let me be clear, when some when
a kid is vaping something, it is

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not the natural plant, you know,
99% of the time that they're

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vaping. It has been this
chemically extracted just THC,

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you know, which is one of the
cannabinoids in cannabis. It's

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missing all the other parts of
the plant that kind of balance

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each other out and have kept
people from having mental health

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issues, or, you know, from
getting sick off of it.

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And now it's this really
intensified, chemically mutated

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version that is now up to, you
know, in the 90th percentile of

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THC in one of these products.
And to put that into

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perspective, in the in the 70s,
there was 1% THC in the plant,

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and now the plant has been
modified to be 20 to 30% THC.

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And THC is what makes, you know,
a kid, quote unquote, high. You

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know, it has the psychoactive
effects, but it also is what we

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know now causes cognitive
deficits, like damages the

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growth and the, there's less
gray matter in the frontal lobes

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of kids that are using
regularly. They don't have the

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same brain connections. Their
brains have to work a lot harder

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to do you know the same things
and that cannabis also sticks to

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their brain longer because they
have more cannabinoid receptors

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in their brain. So a kid that
gets high on a on a Friday night

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is still not on point for the
test on Tuesday. And they don't

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know that.

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Lauren: I would say so, because
I, I mean, not that this is my

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world, either, but, like, that's
a lot of information that has

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even changed over time. Like,
saying this is what it used to

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be, they didn't know what it
used to be, and they don't know

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what it is now. But I think
something that sounds like it

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has stayed the same over time is
the messaging that this is cool.

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This is not bad for you. This is
attractive for any young to old

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people who want to engage in
this. I mean, they're expert

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marketers, the the packaging,
the colors, the, it makes it

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look fun, and that hasn't
changed. I mean, you watch Mad

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Men and see how they were
marketing cigarettes back then

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is, it's the same.

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Kriya: Yeah. And let's put that
on the shelf, for sure, because

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I'm gonna pull that down in a
minute. I definitely want to

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talk about the marketing of all
these things, but the mental

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health impacts are also becoming
really clear. So other than, so

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cognitively, we see frontal lobe
damage happening, and that is

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with nicotine as well,
adolescent nicotine users having

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some damage done to the frontal
lobe growth as well as to

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serotonin production in the
brain and limbic circuitry in

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the brain. So with both of those
products, there's mood impacts.

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There is long and this is long
term, because we have to

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remember that that adolescent
use is really different from

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adult use. And where it might
kind of muck up our brains or

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change the brain chemistry, and
then we've got to level it out

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if we when, you know when we
stop, for them using substances

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regularly, or strong substances.
So we know that binge use, like

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a kid drinks rarely or uses
cannabis rarely, but then they

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hit their brain with this really
intense, potent version of it.

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It can do the same damage as if
they were using regularly, like

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in smaller amounts.

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Lauren: They don't hear this. I
mean, this is to me, this makes

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sense of like, their brain is
still forming, it has, it's

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still learning and growing, or
we're stunting it with these

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chemicals. And, I mean, you
would have scared me out of my

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pants in high school, if I would
have heard that, you know, that

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like, Well, I'm not going to be
ready for the test next Tuesday

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because my brain won't be able
to handle it.

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Kriya: And the piece that's
really, that's really

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fascinating, and this is where
we start thinking about our ins

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as counselors, is that it's
showing to not just have

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cognitive impacts, you know. So
we see a kid who has executive

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functioning issues already, you
know, ADHD kids, like those kids

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are actually more at risk for
using and more at risk for

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developing a dependency, because
if in the moment, it makes them

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feel like they can focus, you
know, or makes them feel better.

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But it's the same with mental
health. Is that we've got a lot

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of kids that are using because
they are under the illusion

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that, you know, because for a
couple hours it makes them not

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feel depressed or anxious or
stressed, but meanwhile, that

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nicotine is damaging serotonin
production in the brain, that

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cannabis is making an impact on
the part of their brain that has

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like awe and wonder in everyday
things. You know, it's over

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stimulating and over stimulating
that part of the brain so they

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start to feel bored, and what we
call anhedonia, right, which is

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the inability to feel just like
pleasure and interest and joy in

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everyday moments.

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And if you take that away, that
equals depression, you know

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equals boredom and and
depression. And again, these

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impacts are not just in the
moment, right? Because their

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brain, like I was saying, as our
brains clear out, you know, and

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kind of can restabilize, their
brains are changed by using

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substances in a way that that
can last into adulthood, you

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know, or long, long term, by
just what they're doing right,

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right now.

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And then we've got, you know,
alcohol is coming, and, like

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every cocktail and childhood
favorite drink comes in a spiked

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version and a pretty, pretty
bottle, and, like, really

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strong, you know, some of those
are three times what a beer is,

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you know, they're like, really
strong amounts of alcohol. And

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then we've got lacings
happening, right? Or poisoning.

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So it's fentanyl getting into
pills and powders, and we have

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xylazine and nidazine. I don't
know if you're familiar with

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that, but just to fill the
listeners in, is that, and

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everybody knows what fentanyl is
now, I think, right? So, so

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that's, you know, about 50 times
stronger than, than heroin is,

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right? And then we have illicit
fentanyl getting, getting put

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into pills that look just like,
I mean, I've seen them, I've

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held them, that look just like
the real thing. They look like

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Adderall and Percocet and
OxyContin and Xanax. Those are,

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those are popular ones.

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But we have, so xylazine is,
they call it tranq. It's a

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tranquilizer that is illicit,
and it's put into a substance to

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kind of prolong the high of it,
to create a better, a bigger

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high. But it is addictive in it
of its of itself and and can

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also sedate and shut down the
nervous system, and is not

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responsive to Narcan. You know,
if somebody was going to use

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Narcan to try to revive someone
that had overdosed, it would

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respond to the fentanyl, but not
to the to the xylazine. And

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then, God, I hate to even
mention that this is a thing,

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but nitazene is kind of newer on
the scene, and it is, it is an

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opiate. It is not legal
anywhere. It's it's being made

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completely illicitly, and it is
about 40 times stronger than

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fentanyl.

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Lauren: I can't even imagine.

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Kriya: I know. And so whereas
fentanyl, there's a lot of myths

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out there about kind of what,
what can be in a vape, for

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example. So cocaine, fentanyl,
meth, like those things, cannot

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actually be activated in a vape.
The vape doesn't get it to the

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right temperature. So even
though they may find it in a

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vape, it's not, it's, it's, it's
not getting into a kid's system.

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But nidazine can be in a vape,
and so can GHB, which is a

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central nervous system
depressant, so can PCP and

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ketamine, so other
hallucinogens. So some of those

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things, we've had some pretty
intense cases on the on the east

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coast where I am, where kids as
early as as eighth, we had an

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eighth grader that that had PCP
in his vape and had a stroke,

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coma, and is now brain, has some
brain damage. He lived, but

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brain damage, and has some
paralysis on one side of his

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body.

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Lauren: I mean, I don't know how
you engage in all of these

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stories, because I'm like sick
to my stomach just thinking of

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how this can affect families and
students and schools and

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communities when, when even one
student is affected in this way,

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whether that's taken down
unsuspectingly or or death, or

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whatever that is, that can rock
a community.

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Kriya: It can. And these are
often, you know, and I have, I

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have developed a lot of
relationships with with parents

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and siblings, and, you know,
families of kids that were lost.

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And what we're seeing, too, when
we're talking about the mental

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health impacts, is that it,
particularly with THC, is

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because it is, it is really the
equivalent of cannabis crack.

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You know what kids are vaping,
you know, when they're dabbing,

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like with a dab pen, and it's a
cannabis concentrate, or it's

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any of the liquids that they're
vaping, it's, again, it's not

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the plant. It is not what, what
parents you know, or even

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teachers are familiar with, you
know, from, quote, unquote, our

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day, right? It is, it's, it's
something new. And so we're

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seeing mental health impacts
like, like never before. So kids

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that were not predisposed to
psychosis, developing psychotic

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disorders from, from THC. And
kids that I know, that, you

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know, started vaping at 16, and
they're the, I mean, and these

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aren't just Lauren, like the,
they're not just, quote unquote,

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those kids. I think that's, you
know, that's the, the thing we

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have to remember as educators
and be teaching parents, is that

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these are captain of a lacrosse
team, 4.0 class president kind

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of kids as well that can fall
into the addiction and the

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tragedies that that some of
these substances are bringing

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with them.

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Lauren: That was a very
comprehensive overview. Like,

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those are so many different
buckets of things that

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counselors need to just be aware
of. Like, have this on your

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radar, you know, add that to the
stuff that we're supposed to be

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experts at. What do you think
that counselors role, like, what

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should their role be? As they
are, you know, they're in a

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school building, so they're not
necessarily disciplinarians by

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nature when they're supposed to
be school counseling, and

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they're not in a therapy
setting, like a residential

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place. So like, what is a
counselor's role with all of

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this in the school building?
What should they be doingwith

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their students?

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Kriya: Yeah, I mean, I think, I
think we can play an extremely

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powerful role in all this. I
mean, one can be just on the

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prevention side of things, is
that we, you know, we can be the

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ones that are, that are doing
educational, passive, you know,

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campaigns always. But, but I,
I'm a huge fan of peer led

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programming. I mean, it's just
proven to be so powerful when it

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comes to things around mental
health or around, you know, kind

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of risky decision making,
especially when there's, there's

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such a strong social media, you
know, media messages coming in,

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and the peer pressure can be so
unhealthy, like, like,

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distorted. I mean, it's
misinformed, and they're missing

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the knowledge, and they're
getting really twisted,

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distorted stuff from social
media. So what the what they're

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passing around can be really,
really unhealthy, dangerous,

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misinformation. So having peers
really be the ones to, I mean,

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design it from the roots up. You
know, like, what do you think

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your your peers need to hear?
You know, why are they going

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there, the ones that are? What
would they need in order to not

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go there? What would they need
to hear in what kind of language

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and what kind of form? Like,
they're the best ones, you know,

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some of us say, I think I'm
pretty cool.

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Lauren: But they're cooler among
their peers.

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Kriya: They think I'm 10 years
younger than I am, just because

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that's how I dress and talk,
whether it's positive or

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negative. But yeah, hearing,
hearing from, from them, my very

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favorite thing is to actually
use, I love to use the kids who

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have gotten in trouble. They are
the best sources of, put them in

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a focus group and say, What
would you have needed? What

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would make a difference? You
know, I think we missed that

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opportunity. But so we can
advise some of that. You know,

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we can kind of be the catalyst
and the advisors for students.

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Lauren: Can I say on that? I
feel like students have had this

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big shift in owning their mental
health and being really big

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advocates for what they need and
learning about it themselves.

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And you see a lot of that
heading up, like a local Nami

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chapter in their schools, or
like coming to adults in their

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school saying, hey, we need
this. I feel like, if, if we're

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seeing that revolution with
mental health with them, like

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it's possible that we can see a
revolution around drug and

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alcohol awareness too, I think.

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Kriya: Yeah, I mean, it loses
its power, they're already

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sensitive to, defensive of,
adults taking over and doing

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everything to them and for them.
So so we really want to help

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them be empowered and take take
the lead on it. So, so I think

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we can lead that.

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And then there's, there are,
some of the the best

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interventions I've done have
been empowering teachers to

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infuse lessons into their
curriculum. The science teachers

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talking about adolescent brain
science and how they're wired

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for habit forming like no other
time, right? And the impact that

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drugs can have on them.

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Lauren: And they can probably
have pretty cool conversations

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in their classroom with their
students, because they already

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have that relationship. And the
students feel comfortable with

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those peers in the classroom a
lot of times. And so it's,

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they've already developed that
rapport to jump right in and ask

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questions and have honest
conversation.

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Kriya: And social studies
classes can talk about media,

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media's impact, and brainwashing
tactics that they use and that,

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you know, the effect that they
have. They can talk about, they

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can have debates of over
legalization and the pros and

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the cons, you know. So there's
ways for us to, I think, kind of

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catalyze that in the in the
classroom. But then, you know

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us, even in in high school, I
know we don't, you know, push

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into classrooms in the same way
that that they gave us an

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elementary school to do. So
sometimes it's advisory. I've

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played a role in a lot of
schools have advisory times, and

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they're really because they, you
know, they've gotten like, okay,

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school connectedness, huge
protective factor. And schools,

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you know, kids being connected
to each other and to a caring

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adult, and we know that that
matters, right? So sometimes

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activities can be woven into
like advisory time, you know, or

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things where, and it can be
things like values exploration,

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and goal setting. When we can
guide them in values exploration

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and have them identify the
things that that matter the most

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to them, what they believe in,
who they want to be, what they

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want for themselves.

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Lauren: I love that. They don't
get enough time to do that, that

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blank space to think and be
disconnected from social media

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and their phones and like think,
sit in that and wonder what they

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personally believe.

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Kriya: Right. And so whether
that's in a small group, or it's

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in a one on one with a you know
that we're counseling a kiddo,

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or we're finding a way to get
into a classroom to do that, I

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find that most kids have fun.
Teenagers have fun doing that

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because they're just trying to,
they're trying to figure that

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out anyway, right? That's where
they're at. And so helping them

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kind of get clear on that, at
least who they are this week.

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But and then they can engage in,
okay, so how, like, if those

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things, we know, if those are on
the front burner of a kid's

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mind, then they're gonna they're
more likely to sift every

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decision they make through them,
from who they date and who they

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00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:38,520
befriend to whether they start
having sex to whether they do

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drugs, to what classes they
take, right? So we can encourage

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them to think about, okay, so
how would using substances, how

359
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could that fit in with your
values, let's be honest. And how

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could it contradict them or
start to work against them.

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Lauren: And kind of putting a
mirror up to them and saying,

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Well, if you say, these are your
values, but these are the things

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you're doing, they're not
aligning.

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Kriya: Right exactly. So, so
this is just classic

365
00:20:04,170 --> 00:20:06,660
motivational interviewing kind
of stuff, right? We want to help

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them get the discrepancy that
this could cause for them. And

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if a kid is already going there,
you know, we can have these

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conversations one on one with
them too. The same kind of thing

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is sort of look at their values
and say, okay, you know what,

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how is this contradicting, and
what would it take for you to,

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you know, to be more congruent
with with who you want to be?

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Lauren: Yeah, even open their
eyes to like this, this might be

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So I think we also, you know, we
can, there's some, some short

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action things we can do. And I
am going to make sure that

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everybody's got some resources
that I've created, but I will

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have kids look at again, I'm
not, I'm not being an addiction

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a problem when we score that
against what the average is or

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a licensed therapist in this
role, but they can still look at

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like the criteria for for a use
disorder. And I've developed a

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00:20:48,015 --> 00:20:51,734
little self assessment that I
use with all addictive behavior,

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honestly, gaming or self harm or
anything, and they can ask

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themselves kind of those 11
questions about like the impact

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that it's had on them. And I
have another chart that I use

384
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what your peers are answering.
You know, this is just for you,

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that shows kind of experimental
versus responsible, quote

386
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unquote, use versus problem use.
And I'll have them look at it

387
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and just answer the questions
for themselves, you know, or

388
00:21:13,329 --> 00:21:17,109
circle things on the chart that
I made that maybe they say, Oh,

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00:21:17,169 --> 00:21:21,008
well, okay, responsible use is I
know the sources of what I use.

390
00:21:21,068 --> 00:21:24,667
So I'm circling that one, and I
can take it or leave it. I'm

391
00:21:23,170 --> 00:22:14,110
but we want you to know kind of
where you're measuring up right

392
00:21:24,727 --> 00:21:28,086
circling that one. Oh yeah. But
over here, I've had some

393
00:21:28,146 --> 00:21:31,746
consequences to my health. I'm
not breathing as well since I

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00:21:31,806 --> 00:21:35,405
started vaping, like during
soccer practice. Or I got busted

395
00:21:35,465 --> 00:21:39,184
at, you know, at home for that.
So let me circle those things.

396
00:21:39,244 --> 00:21:43,023
So we kind of lead them to just
kind of hand it to them and let

397
00:21:43,083 --> 00:21:46,802
them do the self examination and
the questions themselves, and

398
00:21:46,862 --> 00:21:50,522
then use that to springboard
onto some conversation about, we

399
00:21:50,582 --> 00:21:54,361
can give them the diagnosis. I
mean, we can say, well, they say

400
00:21:54,421 --> 00:21:57,960
that six plus yeses is a severe
substance use disorder, you

401
00:21:58,020 --> 00:22:00,660
know, or and see what they think
about that.

402
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against your peers.

403
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:19,750
Kriya: And I love change rulers
so much. Some of these classic

404
00:22:19,750 --> 00:22:23,440
like MI tools. So, you know,
asking a kid, so again, we're

405
00:22:23,470 --> 00:22:27,880
now, we're talking about, like,
tier three interventions, right?

406
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:31,600
When, when a kid has already
been identified as as using, or

407
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:33,850
they've self referred
themselves, and they're being

408
00:22:33,850 --> 00:22:37,240
honest with us about their use,
right? Is that asking them like,

409
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,570
okay, so on a on a scale of one
to 10, and I love this, because

410
00:22:40,570 --> 00:22:42,430
you can, you don't have to have
any gadgets.

411
00:22:42,460 --> 00:22:43,900
Lauren: Right. We're just
talking.

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00:22:44,170 --> 00:22:46,930
Kriya: On a scale of one to 10,
you know, how much do you think

413
00:22:46,930 --> 00:22:51,280
you're vaping is, is negatively
impacting your life? Or on a

414
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,670
scale of one to 10, like, how
much would you, you know, are

415
00:22:54,670 --> 00:22:57,940
you interested in, in quitting
nicotine, quitting nicotine

416
00:22:57,940 --> 00:23:02,440
pouches, right? And so if a kid
says, Well, four, you know, then

417
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:07,030
we go, okay, so, why is it a
four and not a one? You know,

418
00:23:07,030 --> 00:23:10,600
tell me about that. Or what
would, what would an eight or

419
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,630
nine look like? You know, what
would it take, do you think,

420
00:23:13,660 --> 00:23:16,840
what would need to be happening
for you to want to change that

421
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,870
much, you know, just feel like
or for it to be impacting your

422
00:23:19,870 --> 00:23:22,780
life that much? What would an
eight or 10 and a problem look

423
00:23:22,780 --> 00:23:23,440
like for you?

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00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,300
Lauren: I love the scaling
questions. It reminds me of an

425
00:23:26,300 --> 00:23:29,360
interview I did with Dr. Sabella
where we talked about solution

426
00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:32,870
focus. It's like we're starting
somewhere. We're identifying

427
00:23:32,870 --> 00:23:34,850
somewhere to start, and getting
to hear it from their

428
00:23:34,850 --> 00:23:37,790
perspective. It's like there's
no right or wrong. This is your

429
00:23:37,790 --> 00:23:40,370
opinion, and we're gonna work
with it wherever we come from.

430
00:23:40,370 --> 00:23:44,660
And, yeah, look, you're not at
one, okay? Or if you are, you're

431
00:23:44,660 --> 00:23:47,690
not at zero, you're starting
somewhere. Like we can move

432
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along this path. And I like
being able to see and chart

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00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:51,380
their growth with that.

434
00:23:51,860 --> 00:23:54,950
Kriya: And two roads I like to
use too, which is kind of

435
00:23:54,950 --> 00:23:57,470
rolling with their resistance,
you know? I'll use this when a

436
00:23:57,470 --> 00:23:59,840
kid is like, well, I don't, you
know, I don't want to change

437
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:01,880
anything. The only problem I
have is that the school has a

438
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:03,920
problem with it, or my parents
have problem with it, right?

439
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:05,450
Lauren: Sounds like you've heard
that before.

440
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:10,460
Kriya: Never, yeah. And I worked
in juvenile justice, too, so

441
00:24:10,460 --> 00:24:14,360
I've heard it all, yeah. But so
I go, Okay, I hear that you

442
00:24:14,360 --> 00:24:16,970
don't want to, you know, you're
fine with your use. You don't

443
00:24:16,970 --> 00:24:20,060
want to change anything. So
let's just, let's just follow

444
00:24:20,060 --> 00:24:24,350
this, right? So let's say you
don't change anything about what

445
00:24:24,350 --> 00:24:26,600
you're doing right now. Let's
just let, so what does that look

446
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,600
like in a month, or three months
or, and I take it down the road

447
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,210
and I will, I will take a piece
of paper and literally draw this

448
00:24:32,210 --> 00:24:34,520
out with them, you know,
sometimes. I say, Okay, what if

449
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:38,780
you change just one little
thing? And what might that be?

450
00:24:38,780 --> 00:24:42,320
Maybe it's just you don't use at
school, maybe that's your one

451
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:47,450
change, right? Or you're only
using three days a week, you

452
00:24:47,450 --> 00:24:50,810
know, instead of five, seven
days a week, or whatever. Let's

453
00:24:50,810 --> 00:24:54,020
track that. What do you think
that would look like in one

454
00:24:54,020 --> 00:24:55,460
month, three months, you know?

455
00:24:55,730 --> 00:24:58,460
And so, you know, it's hard when
it's in black and white for them

456
00:24:58,460 --> 00:25:03,980
to not be a, turn a little bit
on the dial of like, okay, well,

457
00:25:03,980 --> 00:25:08,900
maybe I could just try, and then
that's a win, right? For a kid

458
00:25:08,900 --> 00:25:12,620
that is, that is, is, is, like,
no, I really like this. You

459
00:25:12,620 --> 00:25:15,530
know, the same as as when we if
we've got that chart in front of

460
00:25:15,530 --> 00:25:20,600
us that shows experimental,
responsible and problem use and

461
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,930
use disorders, we can at least
say, if a kid's like, no,

462
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,260
they're not gonna say, I'm gonna
quit, you know? I mean, of

463
00:25:27,260 --> 00:25:29,780
course we wanna bring them
there, but if they don't, we can

464
00:25:29,780 --> 00:25:32,840
say, Okay, well, then what would
it take for you to stay in this

465
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:34,250
Responsible Use lane?

466
00:25:34,630 --> 00:25:37,030
Lauren: Yeah, and you're not
going into these conversations

467
00:25:37,030 --> 00:25:40,030
thinking, yeah, they're gonna
change right this second. Like,

468
00:25:40,030 --> 00:25:43,780
none of us change our habits
overnight. And like, that's hard

469
00:25:43,780 --> 00:25:47,170
to do, so yeah, just getting
them even to a point where they

470
00:25:47,170 --> 00:25:50,350
can think, and this is hard for
a high schooler too. They think

471
00:25:50,350 --> 00:25:53,890
about themselves, think outside
of themselves, and see a future

472
00:25:53,890 --> 00:25:57,970
that's a few stages ahead, or,
like you said, even if it's a

473
00:25:57,970 --> 00:26:00,550
week ahead, a month ahead, like,
that's a little bit we're having

474
00:26:00,550 --> 00:26:03,880
to process. And, that's also
scary like, when they've been

475
00:26:03,910 --> 00:26:08,230
using for however long that
their brain is cognitively

476
00:26:08,230 --> 00:26:10,840
changing, like, this is only
going to get harder to make

477
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:12,730
change and to be motivated to
change.

478
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,220
Kriya: Yeah. And so, and the
other thing that I love doing,

479
00:26:15,220 --> 00:26:19,240
and this can be both
preventative and kind of as a

480
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,300
response, as an intervention,
is, I've got this, this chart of

481
00:26:22,300 --> 00:26:26,020
needs, like these six essential
adolescent needs, which are,

482
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,630
let's see if I can remember off
the top of my head, coping,

483
00:26:29,050 --> 00:26:36,070
confidence, purpose, fun,
connection, control, control and

484
00:26:36,070 --> 00:26:38,890
agency, I think, of their lives.
So I, you know, got this little

485
00:26:38,890 --> 00:26:43,120
chart that I use, and so I will
use that as a preventative tool

486
00:26:43,120 --> 00:26:48,070
and go in high school I use the
40 developmental assets list, if

487
00:26:48,070 --> 00:26:51,550
you're familiar with that. And I
bring that out as an activity

488
00:26:51,580 --> 00:26:56,200
with kids and say, Okay, how are
you meeting your your needs? You

489
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,300
know, like, what are the ways
that you meet your needs with

490
00:26:58,660 --> 00:27:02,260
and where are the holes, kind of
in in all of these areas for

491
00:27:02,260 --> 00:27:02,620
you?

492
00:27:03,020 --> 00:27:06,740
And then talking about, like, if
you have a hole in any of these

493
00:27:06,740 --> 00:27:11,240
areas, then you're kind of at
risk of anything that that comes

494
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:15,050
along that fits in there best,
you know, that works better than

495
00:27:15,050 --> 00:27:20,690
anything else you you can get
attached to, you know. And so

496
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,390
that's why we're trying to be
really conscientious of what we

497
00:27:23,570 --> 00:27:25,880
what we meet those needs with,
especially right now, when your

498
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,300
brain is wiring, you know,
connection to things that that

499
00:27:29,300 --> 00:27:33,320
work for you, like no other
time. So you can use that as a

500
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:37,340
preventative tool to sort of
help kids brainstorm and talk

501
00:27:37,340 --> 00:27:39,170
with each other. You know, it's
like, again, if you're in an

502
00:27:39,170 --> 00:27:42,170
advisory in a small class on how
they can fill those needs and

503
00:27:42,170 --> 00:27:45,140
how they do. But if you're
talking with a kid that's using,

504
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,920
I just pull that out and say,
okay, so you know, what is this

505
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,710
doing for you? What are you
getting from using? You know,

506
00:27:51,710 --> 00:27:54,230
what is it giving you that you
want? What is it taking away

507
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,590
that you don't want? And then we
use all that empathy, right,

508
00:27:57,950 --> 00:28:02,150
that we're all skilled at, and
instead of the the judgment that

509
00:28:02,150 --> 00:28:05,960
they expect from adults, right?
First, we say, You know what? It

510
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,200
makes sense that you know your
parents are fighting every night

511
00:28:09,530 --> 00:28:12,050
and that you're getting a high
to tune that out.

512
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,510
Lauren: And that might be the
first time they've heard someone

513
00:28:14,510 --> 00:28:19,100
say, I see your situation, and I
see why that would be hard and

514
00:28:19,100 --> 00:28:21,410
why you're filling it with
something else.

515
00:28:21,500 --> 00:28:25,160
Kriya: Yeah, and then, and then,
once, you know, they they see

516
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,110
we're not going to judge and
they don't have to defend,

517
00:28:27,260 --> 00:28:30,020
right, then we can sort of pull
them into an invitation and be

518
00:28:30,020 --> 00:28:33,080
like, well, but you know, I know
that if we don't have something

519
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,770
else to help us cope, then, then
that can become the only tool in

520
00:28:36,770 --> 00:28:39,560
our toolbox, and then it becomes
a dependency. And that's when

521
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,340
we're talking about it being a
problem, which I can tell you

522
00:28:43,340 --> 00:28:46,280
don't want to have a problem,
right? You know, you don't want

523
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,670
to have an addiction, I'm
assuming? So, so then we can

524
00:28:49,670 --> 00:28:52,010
invite them into brainstorming,
like, Hey, you willing to

525
00:28:52,010 --> 00:28:55,100
brainstorm some other ideas with
me about how, how you could meet

526
00:28:55,100 --> 00:28:58,610
the same need, you know, so that
you might not need this, or at

527
00:28:58,610 --> 00:29:00,140
least develop a dependency on
it.

528
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,200
And then, and talking also
about, like, how, how use, can

529
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,680
flip, can turn on itself, and
highlighting that, it's like,

530
00:29:06,710 --> 00:29:08,540
oh, well, it's interesting. I
noticed, you know, you said that

531
00:29:08,540 --> 00:29:12,230
you were, you were using because
it helped you feel connected,

532
00:29:12,230 --> 00:29:16,370
like, better in your skin, and
more confident around, around

533
00:29:16,370 --> 00:29:19,910
your friends. But I also just
heard you say that you're,

534
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,450
you're feeling bad about the
reputation it's giving you. So

535
00:29:23,450 --> 00:29:26,720
it sounds like it's kind of
turning, turning against this

536
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:28,310
reason you are using it for.

537
00:29:28,790 --> 00:29:32,750
Lauren: Yeah. So a lot of
reflecting back, kind of, some

538
00:29:32,750 --> 00:29:35,150
of the contradicting statements
they're giving you.

539
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:40,220
You've already given us so many
good like, scripts and examples

540
00:29:40,220 --> 00:29:43,250
where I know counselors, when
they're ready to, like, dive

541
00:29:43,250 --> 00:29:45,860
into a conversation like this
with a student, I think our

542
00:29:45,860 --> 00:29:48,020
conversation here is going to be
really helpful for them to,

543
00:29:48,020 --> 00:29:51,860
like, play back, think back, and
listen to and even just hearing

544
00:29:51,860 --> 00:29:54,950
you talk is like, I hope it's
building people's confidence.

545
00:29:54,950 --> 00:29:57,800
Because this is a sensitive
issue, like you might feel like,

546
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,020
well, I don't want to go in the
classroom and talk about it. I

547
00:30:00,020 --> 00:30:01,880
can't have a whole school
assembly where I'm the one

548
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,460
talking about it. I don't, I
don't know enough about this.

549
00:30:04,460 --> 00:30:07,940
They know more about it than
than I do. But like, no, these

550
00:30:07,940 --> 00:30:10,100
counselors are listening to
this. They're willing to

551
00:30:10,130 --> 00:30:12,770
probably go to your website and
see your resources. Like,

552
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,980
there's a lot out there, and
they can educate themselves, and

553
00:30:16,100 --> 00:30:19,430
they're going to be 10% more
than the students are going to

554
00:30:19,430 --> 00:30:21,710
have more information, and
that's going to make them the

555
00:30:21,710 --> 00:30:22,190
expert.

556
00:30:22,190 --> 00:30:24,920
And then along, like what you
said, with having that empathy,

557
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,370
having those natural counseling
skills, them listening and

558
00:30:28,370 --> 00:30:32,330
asking questions, is going to be
huge in helping a student work

559
00:30:32,330 --> 00:30:35,060
through this and motivate them
to change their ways, like we

560
00:30:35,060 --> 00:30:39,080
motivate and help change and
help reflect their thinking and

561
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,750
change their thinking for the
betterment of themselves. We do

562
00:30:41,750 --> 00:30:43,970
that with all different topics.
And so I feel like drug and

563
00:30:43,970 --> 00:30:48,620
alcohol awareness is no
different from that. Like, if we

564
00:30:48,620 --> 00:30:51,440
have skills that we can help
students with in certain places,

565
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,290
we can do it here too. I just
like a little pep talk, because

566
00:30:54,290 --> 00:30:56,360
I feel like people are probably
intimidated to have these

567
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:57,200
conversations.

568
00:30:57,230 --> 00:31:00,560
Kriya: Sure, and keep in mind, I
mean, sure it's helpful when you

569
00:31:00,590 --> 00:31:03,260
can go to a training and get,
like, what's the latest research

570
00:31:03,260 --> 00:31:05,360
on all things weed, you know.

571
00:31:05,420 --> 00:31:07,880
Lauren: But it's probably always
changing and hard to keep up

572
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:08,150
with.

573
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,350
Kriya: Trust me, I have to
recreate my presentations. I

574
00:31:12,350 --> 00:31:15,530
don't have that thing that
topic, where it's, I'm like, I

575
00:31:15,530 --> 00:31:18,230
can pull that thing out of my
pocket. I have to always tweak

576
00:31:18,230 --> 00:31:22,070
it. But it's okay that you're
not, you know that you're not

577
00:31:22,070 --> 00:31:25,790
the expert, expert on it.
Because it's okay to say, I

578
00:31:25,790 --> 00:31:29,390
mean, if you start with a kid
and say, What do you know about

579
00:31:29,390 --> 00:31:34,550
the impact of of weed on a, you
know, on on a 16 year old brain,

580
00:31:35,150 --> 00:31:37,880
you know? And say, like, I don't
know everything, but I, you

581
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,150
know, I learned a couple things.
I've heard a couple things along

582
00:31:41,150 --> 00:31:43,970
the way. Like, do you mind if,
are you, are you down with kind

583
00:31:43,970 --> 00:31:47,000
of hearing what I have, you
know, my input on that? But, but

584
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:48,800
then we can say, well, let's,
let's look it up. Because I

585
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:53,210
know, I do know the trusted
places to go to look for

586
00:31:53,420 --> 00:31:56,300
research on that. Like, can we
take five minutes and look some

587
00:31:56,300 --> 00:31:57,560
of that up together? Because I
don't know.

588
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,970
Lauren: Is it on tick tock? Is
that where we should find it?

589
00:31:59,970 --> 00:32:02,280
Because that's probably where
they would direct you, right?

590
00:32:03,210 --> 00:32:03,990
Kriya: Right, right.

591
00:32:04,170 --> 00:32:06,120
Lauren: Around that messaging,
this is kind of like the last

592
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,690
big topic I kind of want to hit
on is, how do we make our voices

593
00:32:09,690 --> 00:32:13,800
as adults or people who care
about our students, how do we

594
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:19,110
make our messaging stronger and
heard when there are so many

595
00:32:19,110 --> 00:32:21,780
other messages out there that
are overpowering them? From

596
00:32:21,780 --> 00:32:25,050
their peers and from the media
and maybe even their family,

597
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,470
like, how do, how do we get them
to listen to the real facts?

598
00:32:28,770 --> 00:32:31,710
Kriya: Yeah, and that's hard,
right? I mean, think of how much

599
00:32:31,740 --> 00:32:35,550
they, they say with the average
that these kids are online nine

600
00:32:35,550 --> 00:32:39,600
hours a day average, right? In
high school? So, you know, I, I

601
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:43,290
used to say we have to talk
louder and more often than these

602
00:32:43,290 --> 00:32:44,790
voices are, but like...

603
00:32:45,090 --> 00:32:46,230
Lauren: That's a lot of time!

604
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:51,520
And so just asking, and these,
this is great when we can do

605
00:32:46,180 --> 00:32:49,608
Kriya: That's a lot of time,
right, right, right. So I think,

606
00:32:49,671 --> 00:32:53,036
I think the key is, is
remembering who they are right

607
00:32:51,550 --> 00:32:57,880
like a whole media literacy,
like lesson. And again, teachers

608
00:32:53,099 --> 00:32:56,781
as adolescents, and kind of
taking advantage of that. Like

609
00:32:56,845 --> 00:33:00,908
typical adolescent values, what
do they hate more than anything?

610
00:32:59,410 --> 00:33:39,580
can weave this into, kind of
seamlessly, you know, into into

611
00:33:00,971 --> 00:33:04,399
Being conned, manipulated,
controlled. They have their

612
00:33:04,463 --> 00:33:08,272
hypocrisy meters are on, like,
super, super blast, right? So

613
00:33:08,335 --> 00:33:12,398
they are looking for every hole
in what adults in particular are

614
00:33:12,462 --> 00:33:16,588
telling them and doing. And this
is actually the beautiful thing,

615
00:33:16,652 --> 00:33:20,080
you know, that we can use,
because we can lead them to

616
00:33:20,143 --> 00:33:23,571
analyze and disassemble, you
know, these messages that

617
00:33:23,635 --> 00:33:27,571
they're getting hammered with by
using their values, you know,

618
00:33:27,634 --> 00:33:28,460
against them.

619
00:33:39,580 --> 00:33:42,340
curriculum, but, but even just
sitting down one on one with a

620
00:33:42,340 --> 00:33:45,220
kid or in a small group of some
kind, we can ask, you know, what

621
00:33:45,790 --> 00:33:49,570
messages do you get about
substances in your world? And

622
00:33:49,570 --> 00:33:53,320
what is the, what do you know
about how they advertise? You

623
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,960
know? What are the, what are the
agendas of these companies?

624
00:33:56,410 --> 00:33:58,960
So I asked a question. I had
never asked the question this

625
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,930
way, and I did this in a recent
high school class, where I said,

626
00:34:01,930 --> 00:34:04,840
Okay, so let's just like, I
threw my PowerPoint out the

627
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,780
window, you know about vaping.
And I said, Well, okay, so

628
00:34:07,780 --> 00:34:10,660
let's, let's imagine for a
minute you guys, you are

629
00:34:10,690 --> 00:34:15,160
executives and marketing people
for a vaping company. And I

630
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,980
literally had them get in small
groups. And I said, Okay, I want

631
00:34:17,980 --> 00:34:20,530
you to figure out what is your
agenda, for one. And they all

632
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,590
obviously came to, like, I want
to make mad money, right? Like,

633
00:34:23,860 --> 00:34:27,130
are they trying to better the
world, take care of the

634
00:34:27,130 --> 00:34:30,940
environment, you know, make us
better people? No, they want to

635
00:34:30,940 --> 00:34:34,780
make mad money, right? Okay, so
if that's your agenda, then what

636
00:34:34,780 --> 00:34:38,050
are you going to do to make that
happen? If you're a vaping

637
00:34:38,050 --> 00:34:40,960
company, and they came up with
everything that exists. And

638
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,620
these were, these were,
actually, I'm lying. This was a

639
00:34:44,620 --> 00:34:48,790
middle school class, so they
hadn't even come across some of

640
00:34:48,790 --> 00:34:51,040
the things that are out there
yet. So they didn't even know

641
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,250
that vapes now, I didn't even
mention this, that they are

642
00:34:54,250 --> 00:34:58,780
gamifying them. You can, you can
pair them with your phone and

643
00:34:58,780 --> 00:35:02,710
look at pictures. You can play
Tetris and Pac Man on them. You

644
00:35:02,710 --> 00:35:07,420
can, you can count your your
puffs and compete in a in a puff

645
00:35:07,420 --> 00:35:12,220
competition, take your points
for each puff and get get swag

646
00:35:12,220 --> 00:35:12,850
for them.

647
00:35:13,090 --> 00:35:15,730
Lauren: I wish people could see
my eye roll right now. Like,

648
00:35:15,730 --> 00:35:15,910
what??

649
00:35:15,910 --> 00:35:18,370
Kriya: There are collector
cards, there are Bluetooth

650
00:35:18,370 --> 00:35:21,760
speakers. There are, this is the
form that vapes are coming in

651
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,990
now. So when I said to the kids,
what would you do, they came up

652
00:35:25,990 --> 00:35:29,590
with that. They didn't even know
that gamified vapes exist. They

653
00:35:29,590 --> 00:35:33,340
said, Oh, well, I would, I would
try to market kids. I would use

654
00:35:33,340 --> 00:35:35,710
celebrities and people that they
think are cool. I would use

655
00:35:35,710 --> 00:35:39,040
rappers. I would use musicians.
I would get on social media and

656
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,460
use influencers. I would use
these kind of graphics, this

657
00:35:42,460 --> 00:35:43,270
kind of language.

658
00:35:43,300 --> 00:35:45,640
Lauren: They are gonna make mad
money, huh?

659
00:35:45,670 --> 00:35:48,940
Kriya: Right? And I was like,
okay, so they and, and, but it

660
00:35:49,030 --> 00:35:52,660
it only took a few minutes for
them to have these. And then

661
00:35:52,660 --> 00:35:55,660
when I showed them the pictures
of what existed, they were

662
00:35:55,660 --> 00:35:56,860
pissed.

663
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:58,540
Lauren: They realized they were
getting conned.

664
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,300
Kriya: And it was perfect,
because I saw, they were like,

665
00:36:01,330 --> 00:36:06,040
what do we do? This is wrong!
They're so mad and and so, I

666
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,370
mean, granted, those are eighth
graders, but, you know, I have

667
00:36:09,370 --> 00:36:12,460
now since done this with, you
know, with older kids, and

668
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:13,480
that's how we do it.

669
00:36:13,510 --> 00:36:14,860
Lauren: I think we all would
feel that way if we, if it's

670
00:36:14,860 --> 00:36:18,190
something we hadn't thought
about. Like, I put myself in

671
00:36:18,190 --> 00:36:18,880
those shoes too.

672
00:36:19,330 --> 00:36:23,830
Kriya: And they're knowing that
none of, there are only 23 vapes

673
00:36:23,830 --> 00:36:27,220
that are legal FDA approved in
this country. Three companies,

674
00:36:27,430 --> 00:36:31,420
any of those flavors, all of
them are not legal. Not a single

675
00:36:31,420 --> 00:36:34,960
one. Wow. And the fact and the
fact that those like elf bars

676
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,330
and the ones the vape the
disposable vapes that they're

677
00:36:37,330 --> 00:36:40,540
all familiar with that they're
using the most, those these

678
00:36:40,540 --> 00:36:46,270
vapes have up to 3000 cigarettes
worth of nicotine in them. It's

679
00:36:46,270 --> 00:36:47,200
obscene.

680
00:36:47,350 --> 00:36:51,010
So when they find out that
that's what it is that nicotine

681
00:36:51,580 --> 00:36:56,200
has this impact on creating and
worsening anxiety and depression

682
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:59,980
and stress response, and that
THC, you know that cannabis

683
00:36:59,980 --> 00:37:01,990
companies are using the same
thing. They're starting to

684
00:37:01,990 --> 00:37:05,980
market and and they're making it
that advertising makes it look

685
00:37:05,980 --> 00:37:08,440
like you have everything in the
world, that you have happiness

686
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:12,280
and friends and everything and
and what's the what's the truth

687
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:14,950
about what happens when you
really get hooked on this stuff,

688
00:37:14,950 --> 00:37:17,680
which is getting increasingly
addictive, how it creates the

689
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:21,820
opposite. Again, they get pissed
the hypocrisy of that. So I'm

690
00:37:21,820 --> 00:37:24,850
like, What do you not see in the
advertising that is true about

691
00:37:24,850 --> 00:37:27,970
these things? So, so it's really
about coming back to like they

692
00:37:27,970 --> 00:37:31,480
need to we, because we can't
control it on the outside

693
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,840
anymore. No matter what kind of
policy, discipline policy, or

694
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:38,560
how strict, or how, you know,
anybody wants to have this, SROs

695
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,590
can look through a backpack and
look through a locker, and they

696
00:37:41,590 --> 00:37:46,000
look like inhalers and key fobs
and lipsticks, and you can't

697
00:37:46,030 --> 00:37:46,600
even.

698
00:37:46,690 --> 00:37:49,030
Lauren: They'll always be
reinvented to the next thing. We

699
00:37:49,030 --> 00:37:51,880
have to start it at the at the
intellectual level.

700
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,480
Kriya: And now they've got Zins
that just dissolve in the lip,

701
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,490
and nobody knows that they're
there, and they're heavy dosing

702
00:37:56,490 --> 00:38:00,360
themselves all day long with
nicotine. So they're going to

703
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:06,120
have to have the internal buy in
to not want and to and to resent

704
00:38:06,300 --> 00:38:09,840
what those messages are are
doing to them. And so similarly

705
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:13,230
with with family. I mean, it's,
it's a trickier conversation,

706
00:38:13,230 --> 00:38:15,930
but you can still say, well, so
what messages do you get about

707
00:38:15,930 --> 00:38:18,840
substance use in your family?
You know, what have you seen as

708
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:22,140
the pros and the cons of how
your family members use

709
00:38:22,140 --> 00:38:24,600
substances. You know, what do
you want to do? We all want

710
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:28,230
things that we that we want to
keep and things that we don't

711
00:38:28,620 --> 00:38:32,010
from our parents. You know, how
do you how do you feel about

712
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:34,380
your father's drinking? And what
do you want your own

713
00:38:34,380 --> 00:38:37,950
relationship with alcohol to be
like? And what are you going to

714
00:38:37,950 --> 00:38:40,470
do? What commitments are you
going to make to yourself, and

715
00:38:40,470 --> 00:38:43,380
how are you going to uphold
those? Because it's really, I

716
00:38:43,380 --> 00:38:45,810
think with adolescents, it's
really important that they get

717
00:38:45,810 --> 00:38:50,190
because, because they have had
the failing of of adult, I mean,

718
00:38:50,220 --> 00:38:54,150
counselors and health teachers,
right, has been that whole like,

719
00:38:54,210 --> 00:38:58,140
like, the tarred lung in the jar
kind of thing, you know, like

720
00:38:58,140 --> 00:38:58,950
the scared tactics.

721
00:38:58,950 --> 00:39:01,740
Lauren: Okay, old news, right?
This is, this doesn't relate to

722
00:39:01,740 --> 00:39:02,160
me.

723
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,540
Kriya: Yeah. I'm like, Okay, so
in 90 years from now, if I keep

724
00:39:05,540 --> 00:39:07,970
doing this, which I'm not going
to do, I might, that might

725
00:39:07,970 --> 00:39:13,430
happen. So understanding that no
one means to be an addict, no

726
00:39:13,430 --> 00:39:18,770
one means to overdose, not most
of the time, right? So how are,

727
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,530
how are they going to keep that
from being them? And then this

728
00:39:21,530 --> 00:39:25,010
is the difference between when
someone tries something and it

729
00:39:25,010 --> 00:39:28,280
seems all good in the beginning,
you know, that's the that's the

730
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:32,060
trickiness of it, right? Is that
it might look like it's meeting

731
00:39:32,060 --> 00:39:35,510
your needs and feeling good and
all that, you know, and and that

732
00:39:35,510 --> 00:39:39,650
every addiction starts that way.
You know, so, so they really do

733
00:39:39,650 --> 00:39:42,680
need to, need to know what their
own risk factors are, and be

734
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:46,010
able to talk about those and how
to how to overpower them with

735
00:39:46,010 --> 00:39:48,200
protective factors as well.

736
00:39:48,500 --> 00:39:52,940
Lauren: Yeah, there is so much
out there for us to understand

737
00:39:52,940 --> 00:39:56,420
as school counselors, but I feel
like what you have given us here

738
00:39:56,630 --> 00:40:00,860
is a really good intro to what's
out there, what we need to be

739
00:40:00,860 --> 00:40:04,970
aware of, even just some of that
terminology. And I mean this

740
00:40:04,970 --> 00:40:08,150
rolls off your tongue like you
know you know it, and we're

741
00:40:08,150 --> 00:40:10,490
hearing it, and the more we hear
it, the more familiar we're

742
00:40:10,490 --> 00:40:13,460
going to get with it. But I just
really appreciate all your

743
00:40:13,490 --> 00:40:16,970
really practical things, like
just conversation starters,

744
00:40:16,970 --> 00:40:20,930
things to do in classrooms with
students, just even thinking how

745
00:40:20,930 --> 00:40:24,710
we relate to them on a topic
that can be sensitive or that

746
00:40:24,710 --> 00:40:27,620
they can get defensive about. I
mean, there are lots of things

747
00:40:27,620 --> 00:40:30,080
like that that we're talking to
them in high school, but this

748
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:32,930
one just feels trickier. It
feels like it falls in that

749
00:40:32,930 --> 00:40:38,030
discipline category, and we're
not DSS or child protective

750
00:40:38,030 --> 00:40:41,840
services, like we're not a lot
of roles, but we can be someone

751
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,480
who's still an advocate for
students, who still helps, we

752
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,660
still help them inspire change
in themselves. And so I find

753
00:40:47,660 --> 00:40:50,330
this conversation really
encouraging, and I hope that

754
00:40:50,330 --> 00:40:51,950
counselors listening feel the
same way.

755
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,990
Kriya: Good. Yeah, I know that
it can feel, whenever I do a

756
00:40:54,990 --> 00:40:58,080
presentation, it's always like,
Okay, so just so you know, we're

757
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,120
about to go into some really
dismal stuff, and it's gonna

758
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:00,870
feel like...

759
00:41:00,990 --> 00:41:02,580
Lauren: It's gonna get worse
before it gets better.

760
00:41:02,580 --> 00:41:04,530
Kriya: And you're gonna, might,
might feel a little teary and a

761
00:41:04,530 --> 00:41:07,110
little nauseous. Okay, that's
gonna happen first, and then

762
00:41:07,110 --> 00:41:09,960
we're gonna talk about, you
know, what, what we can do.

763
00:41:09,990 --> 00:41:13,800
Because we really, we really
can, and we can empower parents

764
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,440
as well, right? I mean, parents
don't know what they don't know.

765
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,530
So that's one of the other roles
that we can really play, is by,

766
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:23,220
by helping parents have the
information, you know, which

767
00:41:23,220 --> 00:41:26,610
most of them, once they have it,
care about it.

768
00:41:26,670 --> 00:41:28,890
Lauren: Right, I was gonna say
they're gonna run with it too,

769
00:41:28,890 --> 00:41:30,780
and they're gonna tell their
friends, and they're gonna do

770
00:41:30,780 --> 00:41:33,270
the research. Like, the more we
can empower all of these

771
00:41:33,270 --> 00:41:36,750
stakeholders, the broader the
impact our work is gonna gonna

772
00:41:36,750 --> 00:41:37,170
have.

773
00:41:37,260 --> 00:41:37,740
Kriya: Yeah.

774
00:41:38,130 --> 00:41:39,960
Lauren: Well, thank you for
sharing all this. Where can

775
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:42,390
listeners find some of these
resources that you talked about,

776
00:41:42,390 --> 00:41:44,940
or where can they go to, like,
continue learning more from the

777
00:41:44,970 --> 00:41:46,380
vetted sources that you have?

778
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:50,920
Kriya: So on, on my website, it
is kriyalendzion.com, I've got

779
00:41:50,950 --> 00:41:54,010
what I think are the best of the
best, you know, curated

780
00:41:54,010 --> 00:41:57,370
resources that are on substance
use. And I also have screen

781
00:41:57,370 --> 00:42:01,330
help. That's another hot, hot
topic. And there's, there's

782
00:42:01,330 --> 00:42:05,920
places to stay on top of, like
the latest data, you know, and

783
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:09,100
real good research, if you want
to, you want, you know, you want

784
00:42:09,100 --> 00:42:11,470
to have that in hand, and you
want to be able to have that to

785
00:42:11,590 --> 00:42:14,350
lead to kids. Because, well, so
when they say everybody's doing

786
00:42:14,350 --> 00:42:17,140
it, and you can actually pull up
the data that shows that less

787
00:42:17,140 --> 00:42:20,830
and less kids are doing it, and
more kids are choosing to not

788
00:42:20,830 --> 00:42:25,060
use, you know which is awesome.
And I have a whole like VIP

789
00:42:25,060 --> 00:42:28,360
section, and all you do, you go
to where it says members only,

790
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:32,170
and you plug in your email, and
the portal of awesomeness will

791
00:42:32,170 --> 00:42:34,750
open, including all these
resources that I use with

792
00:42:34,750 --> 00:42:38,950
parents to help empower them
with how you talk to your kids

793
00:42:38,950 --> 00:42:42,550
about substances, how you
create, like, family agreements

794
00:42:42,550 --> 00:42:46,090
at home, around all of these
things, how you respond if you

795
00:42:46,090 --> 00:42:49,780
bust your kid. You know, I've
got some tools that counselors

796
00:42:49,780 --> 00:42:52,240
can share with their their
parent community as well.

797
00:42:52,450 --> 00:42:54,310
Lauren: This is great. That
sounds so valuable. We'll

798
00:42:54,310 --> 00:42:57,160
definitely link that in the show
notes and make sure that they

799
00:42:57,160 --> 00:42:59,740
can get to your website and find
all those resources. They're

800
00:42:59,740 --> 00:43:03,190
going to walk away from this
really empowered, I think, to

801
00:43:03,370 --> 00:43:06,580
have good conversations and keep
learning more about this.

802
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:07,090
Kriya: I hope.

803
00:43:07,720 --> 00:43:09,910
Lauren: Kriya, is there anything
I didn't ask you about that you

804
00:43:09,910 --> 00:43:13,180
feel like we still need to know,
like we didn't hit on a topic?

805
00:43:13,420 --> 00:43:16,840
Kriya: So the discipline piece,
I think, is really important.

806
00:43:16,900 --> 00:43:19,840
And you know, whenever I present
this to school counselors, I

807
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:22,300
feel like I always have to give
this caveat of like, I know you

808
00:43:22,300 --> 00:43:27,160
think that this is the
administrators thing. But we

809
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:30,790
really need to push our way to
that table, because we, we are

810
00:43:30,790 --> 00:43:36,610
the experts in the building on
why kids are doing what they're

811
00:43:36,610 --> 00:43:39,460
doing, right, on behavior and on
changing that behavior. And we

812
00:43:39,460 --> 00:43:42,730
know who's doing it, where, why,
right? We know more than anybody

813
00:43:42,730 --> 00:43:43,120
else.

814
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:48,670
So I think we really need to be
partners in creating discipline

815
00:43:48,670 --> 00:43:53,170
policies. Because if we know
that, that most kids are using,

816
00:43:53,770 --> 00:43:57,460
I mean, they start because,
often because of just the desire

817
00:43:57,460 --> 00:44:00,190
to belong, you know, and that
they're figuring out identity

818
00:44:00,190 --> 00:44:03,160
and these very natural
adolescent needs for one, that

819
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:05,980
the majority of kids say that
they continue using, and

820
00:44:05,980 --> 00:44:09,280
especially the ones that develop
problems because they are self

821
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:12,490
medicating, they're trying to
meet their needs for for their

822
00:44:12,490 --> 00:44:14,590
anxiety. They're trying to
relieve their anxiety, their

823
00:44:14,590 --> 00:44:19,180
depression, their stress. So it
doesn't make you know the

824
00:44:19,180 --> 00:44:24,220
traditional punitive policies
that smack a kid on the hand and

825
00:44:24,550 --> 00:44:27,910
they leave feeling shamed,
feeling like they've got this

826
00:44:27,910 --> 00:44:32,140
like bad kid identity. They go
home, vape for three days and

827
00:44:32,140 --> 00:44:34,180
come back and nothing has
changed, right?

828
00:44:34,510 --> 00:44:37,570
It's really important that we be
at the table to look at, to

829
00:44:37,570 --> 00:44:40,630
really pull out, okay, why is
this kid, I think when a kid is

830
00:44:40,810 --> 00:44:44,590
has gotten in trouble, that the
administrators, the counselors,

831
00:44:44,620 --> 00:44:47,320
I love having the medical staff
and any other adults that

832
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:51,040
identify as being like, it might
be a coach. It might be a, you

833
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:54,220
know, somebody that knows this
kid, put that kid out on the

834
00:44:54,220 --> 00:44:58,060
table. I mean, you know, like in
black and white, and say, what's

835
00:44:58,060 --> 00:45:01,240
going on for this kid? What do
they need? You know, out of

836
00:45:01,240 --> 00:45:03,970
those needs that I listed,
right, whether it is just like

837
00:45:03,970 --> 00:45:08,200
fun and activity or purpose or
confidence, right? And what can

838
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:12,820
we do on our watch, on this
campus, to to help the kid

839
00:45:12,820 --> 00:45:15,820
better meet those needs? What
can we point them towards? What

840
00:45:15,820 --> 00:45:19,660
can we provide them? What
resources can the the parents,

841
00:45:19,660 --> 00:45:22,990
do the parents need to be able
to do this better? But there's a

842
00:45:22,990 --> 00:45:27,640
lot of, you know, growing
movement of, and I'm coaching or

843
00:45:27,670 --> 00:45:30,850
consulting increasingly, with
schools on the on the policy

844
00:45:30,850 --> 00:45:33,850
piece, because schools are
starting to do more innovative

845
00:45:33,850 --> 00:45:39,220
things that are based in again,
if we know why kids are using,

846
00:45:39,250 --> 00:45:43,090
that's what we want to address
to change their behavior.

847
00:45:43,090 --> 00:45:45,160
Lauren: Right, and we know
what's not working, what we've

848
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:47,380
done for so many years in the
past.

849
00:45:47,410 --> 00:45:49,990
Kriya: It has backfired, right?
Has even backfired.

850
00:45:50,020 --> 00:45:52,090
Lauren: And that ends up being
like when it's just the

851
00:45:52,090 --> 00:45:55,540
administrator, like issuing out
a consequence or something,

852
00:45:55,540 --> 00:45:58,270
instead of looking at the whole
child. I love what you're saying

853
00:45:58,270 --> 00:46:01,390
about including those values
pieces, because every kid is

854
00:46:01,390 --> 00:46:04,360
different. Like, we need to
press in on this confidence

855
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:07,060
button. Like, where can we grow
their confidence in the school?

856
00:46:07,060 --> 00:46:09,700
Give them more roles and
responsibilities and leadership,

857
00:46:09,700 --> 00:46:12,580
whatever that is, when you have
those adults who know the

858
00:46:12,580 --> 00:46:15,010
student around a table, you
really could probably come up

859
00:46:15,010 --> 00:46:18,010
with some really creative ways
to help the student.

860
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:20,670
Kriya: Yeah, absolutely. And so
I've seen, you know, school,

861
00:46:20,670 --> 00:46:23,580
what I would, I suggest, are
things around sometimes there

862
00:46:23,580 --> 00:46:26,610
can be, there can be, like
service learning projects. You

863
00:46:26,610 --> 00:46:28,710
know, they can have
conversations with people that

864
00:46:28,710 --> 00:46:31,140
are struggling with addiction or
that are struggling with lung,

865
00:46:31,350 --> 00:46:35,520
you know, lung issues. They can
do intensive, like research

866
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:39,300
projects on real kids like them
and what has happened. They can

867
00:46:39,300 --> 00:46:42,780
be peer educators. Part of their
project is to do educational

868
00:46:42,780 --> 00:46:47,100
programs for, you know, for for
others on on campus. Of course,

869
00:46:47,100 --> 00:46:50,130
we have, like, sort of, we can
do short, brief motivational

870
00:46:50,130 --> 00:46:52,800
interviewing style things right,
where we're kind of checking in

871
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:56,700
on how we're not, we're not
being substance use therapists

872
00:46:56,730 --> 00:47:00,570
again, but we can again, help to
sort of, at least get them maybe

873
00:47:00,570 --> 00:47:03,870
to a point where they're
receptive to some interventions,

874
00:47:03,900 --> 00:47:07,410
or that they are they're wanting
to make a change. We also, we

875
00:47:07,410 --> 00:47:11,520
know that about 70% almost of
kids that are vaping at this

876
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:15,150
point want to quit, especially
particularly nicotine. They

877
00:47:15,150 --> 00:47:18,690
didn't mean to get addicted, and
they're angry about the fact

878
00:47:18,690 --> 00:47:19,290
that they are.

879
00:47:20,220 --> 00:47:21,810
Lauren: Then you show them all
those other things in the

880
00:47:21,810 --> 00:47:24,480
classroom, like you did, and
they are fired up, I'm sure.

881
00:47:24,690 --> 00:47:27,270
Kriya: But it's like, if we're
gonna lead them to water, we

882
00:47:27,270 --> 00:47:30,870
gotta give them the water. So
you know, we as counselors can,

883
00:47:30,900 --> 00:47:34,260
can be those advocates for the
referrals, for their being other

884
00:47:34,260 --> 00:47:37,320
like prevention specialists or
intervention specialists or

885
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:41,220
cessation programs on campus,
there's some great ones that I

886
00:47:41,220 --> 00:47:44,340
list them all in the resources
on my website. But things that

887
00:47:44,370 --> 00:47:47,940
people can can get briefed, any
staff member can get trained to

888
00:47:47,940 --> 00:47:51,180
lead a cessation program, you
know, after school. But we want

889
00:47:51,180 --> 00:47:54,900
to have as much as we can these,
these things happening on school

890
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:59,040
grounds, and we're going to be
the strongest, most informed

891
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:02,460
voice to advocate for those
things happening on campus.

892
00:48:02,490 --> 00:48:03,660
Lauren: Yeah, that's a great
point.

893
00:48:03,750 --> 00:48:05,550
Kriya: To help kids change their
use, yeah.

894
00:48:06,090 --> 00:48:09,060
Lauren: Well, this was seriously
awesome. I really appreciate you

895
00:48:09,060 --> 00:48:10,890
taking some time to talk about
this.

896
00:48:11,010 --> 00:48:11,820
Kriya: Yeah, I appreciate it.

897
00:48:11,820 --> 00:48:13,710
Lauren: We'll point them to all
your resources there.

898
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:14,310
Kriya: Awesome.

899
00:48:14,610 --> 00:48:15,840
Lauren: Thank you so much for
being here.

900
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:19,770
Did I not tell you that was
going to be amazing? All of

901
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:22,140
Kriya's resources that she
talked about are linked in the

902
00:48:22,140 --> 00:48:26,250
show notes, really easy to get
to. I clicked through them. What

903
00:48:26,250 --> 00:48:30,510
a great wealth of knowledge she
was, and she's a bank full of

904
00:48:30,510 --> 00:48:33,750
resources. Because I'm not going
to have all of these things

905
00:48:33,750 --> 00:48:36,450
memorized, I would be a little
nervous to have these

906
00:48:36,450 --> 00:48:39,450
conversations with students, but
her resources are going to equip

907
00:48:39,450 --> 00:48:42,960
you to have the conversations,
have the hard conversations, and

908
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:46,110
know where to go next when you
have this in front of you.

909
00:48:46,110 --> 00:48:50,280
And chances are it's already
been in front of you, this issue

910
00:48:50,310 --> 00:48:53,670
does not only pertain to one
type of student, as she

911
00:48:53,670 --> 00:48:57,510
mentioned, but as you also know
in your building, substance use

912
00:48:57,510 --> 00:49:01,860
and abuse is not just for a
certain type of student, it is

913
00:49:01,860 --> 00:49:04,740
affecting all of our students,
and so the more we can be

914
00:49:04,740 --> 00:49:07,800
knowledgeable about the
situation at hand, and the more

915
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:11,130
we can be empowered to have the
conversations and to help

916
00:49:11,130 --> 00:49:14,910
students understand what is
going on around them, what's

917
00:49:14,910 --> 00:49:19,260
going on in their brain as
they're using and abusing

918
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:23,040
alcohol and drugs, the better
resource that we can be to our

919
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:26,460
students and our families. So I
know that you are going to take

920
00:49:26,460 --> 00:49:29,820
away a lot from this
conversation, and feel free to

921
00:49:29,820 --> 00:49:32,940
reach out to Kriya. I know that
she has so much information, and

922
00:49:33,030 --> 00:49:35,610
she would be a great person to
either bring into your school

923
00:49:35,610 --> 00:49:39,720
for a PD, or just be someone to
continue the conversation with,

924
00:49:39,720 --> 00:49:42,870
ask her questions. So reach out
and connect all of her resources

925
00:49:42,870 --> 00:49:45,450
and all her contact information
is in the show notes. We'll see

926
00:49:45,450 --> 00:49:46,050
you next week.

927
00:49:48,060 --> 00:49:50,490
Thanks for listening to today's
episode of High School

928
00:49:50,490 --> 00:49:53,820
Counseling Conversations. All
the links I talked about today

929
00:49:53,820 --> 00:49:56,040
can be found in the show notes
and also at

930
00:49:56,040 --> 00:50:00,600
counselorclique.com/podcast. Be
sure to hit follow wherever you

931
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:03,690
listen to your podcasts, so that
you never miss a new episode.

932
00:50:04,260 --> 00:50:06,900
Connect with me over on
Instagram. Feel free to send me

933
00:50:06,900 --> 00:50:11,970
a DM @counselorclique, that's C,
L, I, Q, U, E. I'll see you next

934
00:50:11,970 --> 00:50:12,300
week.