All right, for our large animal friends, I have Dr. Bittar here who's gonna be talking about distance examinations for non veterinarians. Thank you so much for being here.

Oh, thank you. It's a pleasure. And then I hope I can contribute to your learning, a little bit at least.

Excellent. Thank you. Um, let's start by telling the audience, who you are. What do you do?

Well, I'm a veterinarian and a graduate from Brazil. And then spend a few years there, moved to upstate New York. Work with some dairy cattle. Then moved to Florida, did a residency, masters, moved to Georgia, did a PhD. Then I moved to the Caribbeans to be a professor. Now I'm back in Florida. So I have a little bit of experience on the eastern part of the Americas. And then, being involved with Dr. Adams Stern quite a bit on this work so it's a little bit new for me for the forensic, but I hope to be able to share more than some of my experience on this 23 years of, uh, after veterinary graduation. Uh, and especially the bovine. So it's kind of interesting because the population now is becoming a little bit more city and less rural, so people are kind of forgetting and then they even don't understand where food comes from. Although we have good parameters to take care of the livestock, sometimes there's a fine line of neglecting or not. So I hope I can share some of the experience with the, the forensic people on the cattle side, you know, to help in their cases if they come along with one.

Yeah. And I think that's really important because, and you're gonna be talking about distance examinations and that's like the first thing that you see right? Is looking at them from afar. And I know from one of the lectures yesterday that was about how people may think that something doesn't look as good as it should or vice versa.

Yeah, that's a good point. And then like, uh, I choose this topic because I see that, uh, you might not have on the, the case know, the forensic, the neglecting case. You may not, the technician may not have access to, you know, palpate the animal, get closer to the animal. So then observing to the distance, I think is, a technique that should be mastered or at least understandable, you know, to benefit, okay, to understand the case. Is this animal in good condition or not? Is he or she's sick? And then, I think that's my goal. And then we'll see, hopefully we can, we can get the, the crowd inspired, you know, and then, uh, take a little bit more about how the cattle behaves and then how they, the, the variations we can see, like, especially here in the south, different breeds, you know, the, the challenge of the weather. And then, uh, it's almost hot all year around. A lot of flies, so. But the winter becomes a little bit rough with, uh, limited food availability. And then I, I wanna focus half of my talk on the body condition score. I think that's a very good tool to be more objective in, to have a snapshot of the nutritional condition of the animal. So.

The distance evaluation and the physical condition of the cattle is kind of obvious, but are you looking also for the, their behavior?

Yes. You, you, uh, nailed. I try to get the audience, you know, to focus on some individual and also the population. So behavior, you know, and then, uh, a lot of times when you are away, it's kind of hard to get the cattle move because cattle is a prey animals, and then, but we're trying to not, uh, let them realize that we're staring them. Then they can hide what they're showing the clinical signs. But, uh, it's interesting to see like the cattle can move, you know, see how they're walking the strides, you know, if they're lame. Or their appearance. It's a kind of challenge, but, uh, I think it'll be, be okay. You know, especially like, uh, trying to point the audience to some specific parts of the animals to pay attention. Also their behavior. You know, like I, I mentioned, I have some, I am very visual guy, so I have quite a few pictures and videos, so kind of trying to brainstorm a little bit. Okay. What you're seeing here. So there's, uh. What is different, you know?

Yeah. And by looking at them from a distance, then potentially you're like, they don't, they don't always notice you, so they can act like in their natural environment, not being concerned about you looking at them and that kind of stuff.

That's right. And then, uh, it gives us a little bit about how the, at least it can give some estimation know about how much close contact they're they having with the, the, the human. You know, like in the point, okay, is there just like example winter time? Is this animal being fed frequently or not? Sometimes when they see, realize a person coming by, uh, if the cattle are hungry, you know, they come running for, you know, especially to look for food or not. And then when I say distance, sometimes. It could mean a few meters away or a few yards away, but at least the point is you cannot touch, you know, you can, you just need to rely on your most of your available, one of the most of the important ones, uh, feature that we have, that the, the vision, the sight, you know? We see, and then interpret that.

Yeah. I think it's becoming a lost thing that we don't use our, our eyes and our hands as much. Like with technology, we are thinking about everything needs too much technology and realistically we are like the best, how you say, observer of what's happening.

Yes, ma'am. I kind of, uh, sometimes joke or, or make a little more fun environment to learn with my students. Depending if they are vet students or a lay person that I, I'm trying to, to teach something. So, uh, go back to the basics, you know, and then we need to observe really good, you know, with smell and then if you can, uh, see and then hear. So I think that's, the sight will be very focused. Okay. What you're seeing. So what is the environment like around, you know, what their behavior, like you've been mentioned before. So if they, when the cattle realize they're being seen, they watch Okay. How, how they they perform. Some run away, so they're standing, uh, laying down. So how they're laying down it, it's, it's interesting. So we're gonna be a little bit like a James Bond here on the side, but, uh, and then I, I also reinforce to my students, you know, the animal and then, even though I'm a large animal veterinarian, so I can try to put in prospect for the small animal as well. They don't come and say, Hey doc, hey, my leg, right leg right here is painful. You know, you need to find out. And then sometimes, cause you know, it's dangerous, the animal can bite, they can kick you. So that's this combination of observe, you know, and then there's a lot of ancillary diagnosis and resource technology that we have. But in this case, we're, we're gonna start from the principle and the basics. You know, we don't have much. Maybe a binocular, a phone with a good zoom, you know? And then we go from there.

Yeah. And I think that that's gonna be really useful for investigators to be able to determine what they need to get a warrant for or not like, if they get called to a case, they can observe the behavior and the physical health of the animals and then say, yes, I have enough to go get a warrant, or no, they, they look okay. There's not enough evidence to come in.

That's right. And then I, that's why I'm focused again on the body condition scoring. So to be, uh, less subjective so they have more common sense, kind of good way to, to be objective on the, the comparison. Okay. These animals, what are they overall body condition? Like in, do they have excess of muscle and fat? Maybe they just don't have fat and they're still losing some muscle mass, you know? And then, i'm gonna point it out a little bit, like very quick about the, about the stages of the animal in their production. For example, a dry cow, different from a heifer or a, a female cow that calves for the first time. So her, uh, nutrition requirements are way higher. So that animal, if she has a calf on her side, she may be low body condition score because she's getting some of her resources to produce milk. Milk is very expensive. And then aligned to the environmental area. You know, do they have hay? You can see, uh, some leftover hay, you know, these animals being fed. Height of the forage available in the pasture so that to make that, uh, a little, like I said, the body condition, then maybe teach a little bit about the stage of the production, then they can say, okay, winter time, lot of cows with babies, you know, they're low body condition score. But we see, okay, they have signs that they're being fed, how? With hay or other know feed troughs. You can see cattle, um, bunching up in a little feed area. So that can give you the, the technician, the information with objectivity, you know, to go and then further proceed on their case. You know why they're, like you said. As for the warrant or maybe just being the lookout? You know, I apologize. I'm not a hundred percent in the forensics of the laws, but at least, uh, we're trying to work together trying, at least with the experience with livestock, specially cattle helps the technician on their case, you know, to, to back them up. Like I said, I try to be less subjective. Because that's the way you can give a good proof on your case.

Yeah, no, I, I completely agree because again, like it's when we're going into forensics, or to examine something forensically for any evidence of cruelty and neglect, we have to know the medicine behind it, right? So even, even though you're not necessarily a forensic investigator. You're an expert in your field, so you're able to say, this is, you know, this is what I'm seeing. This is why it's okay, this is why it's not okay. And then somebody that has the legal knowledge can then take your information and put it in a legal perspective.

That that's right. And I completely agree. And also I'd like to reemphasize the, uh, needs, you know, to work as a teamwork, you know, like the legal one, the person that knows more the law, the one that knows more about the, the condition of the animal, you know, if they are alive and then if they're dead, also if the pathologist as well. So it's, I think it's, uh, good to have this, uh, team approach, you know, to get to the deliverable that's to understand the case and then, uh, further pursue legally.

Excellent. Well, this has been very educational and I think that, it's, it's necessary and I think it's wanted. So thank you so much for being here, and thank you so much for what you're doing.

I appreciate, thanks for having me here. And any, if guys have any question, I'm always available. So there are resources and then I am one if needed. So, and then I always say if I don't know the answer, I will try my best to find somebody that can help, you know, find having that answer. Thanks again.