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Jen: Welcome to the So That's
Why podcast, where we unpack the

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science behind everyday questions.

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I'm Jen.

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Jamie: I'm Chris.

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And I'm Jamie.

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Jen: Right, here's something
that sounds completely back to

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front when you first hear it.

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Stress on its own isn't what makes us ill.

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So a little bit of stress
is genuinely good for you.

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I know I need a bit of stress sometimes
to help me complete those deadlines.

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But- Why can stress make us ill?

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Because a system that's brilliant
in short bursts becomes a problem

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when it never gets switched off.

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Jamie: That's mildly irritating
to hear, if I'm honest.

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I spent years blaming stress for
everything, bad mood, lost keys, the lot.

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Now you're telling me it was
on my side the whole time?

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Jen: Yeah.

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Well- But I think I'll
carry on blaming it.

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Chris: Yeah.

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It's on your side in the right dose,
I think, I think it's fair to say.

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So if it's the nerves before a big
presentation that sharpen you up, or,

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you know, the push before a deadline
that gets you focused, those types

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of stress can be really helpful.

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And in fact, there's even a name for it.

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It's called

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Jen: eustress.

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Which I am definitely gonna
use that phrase in an argument.

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I'm not stressed, I'm eustressed.

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Of

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Chris: course, the trouble is, um, like
most of us aren't living in these kind of

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short bursts of stress anymore, are we?

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It's kind of chronic stress normally.

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Jen: Yeah.

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Jamie: So how big is the problem?

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Jen: Okay.

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Well, we love our facts on this
podcast, don't we- … and our research.

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So there was a survey of more than 145,000
adults in 144 countries, and they found

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that 37% had felt significant stress
the day before they did the survey,

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and 39% experienced serious worry.

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And every one of those measures,
stress, worry, sadness, is

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higher than a decade ago.

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Jamie: More than one in three
people on an ordinary day, not a

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crisis week, just an ordinary day.

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Chris: I know.

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Jen: I've got to say- I know.

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It's huge.

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Yeah.

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It's really… It's sad, isn't it?

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Chris: Yeah.

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You did well to remember all
those, uh, stats in one go as well.

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I mean, totally got them
the wrong way around.

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Um, but the thing is, those
stats, they add up, don't they?

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They stack up because the World
Health Organization now counts

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over a billion people as living
with a mental health condition.

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Um, so rates anxiety and depression,
which are both tangled up with

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stress, as the second-biggest cause
of long-term disability worldwide.

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Jen: That's huge, isn't it?

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Yeah.

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Absolutely huge.

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And, you know, the picture
in the UK is just as stark,

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so some more figures for you.

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Across '24 and 2025, 964,000 workers
were dealing with work-related

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stress, anxiety, or depression.

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And here's what is interesting.

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The year before, it was 776,000, so
that's the sharpest single-year jump

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on record, and it actually costs the
economy around 22 million working days.

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Matt: Wow.

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Jamie: 964,000 people.

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That's a city worth of workers signed off.

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And the real-life figure's probably
higher because plenty of people

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just, just push through it.

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Jen: Yeah.

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I think that's a really helpful
comparison, that it's a city worth.

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It gives people a bit of a-

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Chris: No, definitely,

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Jen: yeah … a picture, isn't it?

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Chris: Yeah.

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And you're right, Jamie, it's almost
certainly gonna be higher, isn't it?

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For, for sure.

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Um, so around 80% of UK workers say
they feel stressed regularly, which

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is no surprise, and statistics suggest
that stress-related absences from

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work are up by over a third since 2020

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Jen: I think, I'll be honest, my first
instinct reading those was to feel

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stressed about how stressed everyone
is, which obviously helps nobody.

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Chris: Absolutely.

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And that's exactly why understanding the
mechanism matters more than anything else.

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So shall we get into what's
actually happening in the body?

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Jamie: Please do, because to
me, stress has always been

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just a sort of vague concept.

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So what exactly is happening in
your body when you're stressed?

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Chris: So when the brain decides there's
a threat, whether it's, um, real or

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imagined, it fires up two systems.

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So the first is a fast one that floods
your, well, floods you with adrenaline,

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so your heart rate speeds up, your blood
pressure rises, and sugar pours into the

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blood to get energy to your muscles fast.

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Jen: Yeah, which obviously
sounds like a good system.

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Your body needs that.

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But then after that, a slower one
follows, and that releases cortisol,

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which is the main stress hormone.

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We've chatted about it
in different episodes.

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So cortisol keeps your energy topped
up, and to do it, it quietly turns

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down anything you don't need in an
emergency, like digestion, repair, and

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even a chunk of your immune system.

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Jamie: So if you were to picture it like
a kitchen, you get a text that guests

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are arriving at the door in five minutes.

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Mm. Everything urgent
gets done immediately.

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The gas goes on, the hob's on full.

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That's the adrenaline, the heart
racing, energy flooding your

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body to deal with the threat.

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And everything that can be is
dropped, the washing up, the post

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on the mat, the laying the, putting
flowers in vases on the table.

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That's your digestion and your
immune system being put on hold.

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All the effort goes into the
emergency, none to the upkeep.

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Jen: Yeah.

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Chris: That's a very passionate analogy.

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I'm, I'm assuming you've
had some kind of house party

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recently- I just love my cooking

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… 
Jen: that got you quite stressed about it.

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I love the flowers on the vase as

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Chris: well.

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I know, definitely.

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Um, but the thing is, when it comes to
these kind of short scrambles of, of

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stress, your body really is brilliant
at coping with that short scramble.

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So back to Jamie's analogy,
the hope is that the guests

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actually leave at some point.

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So once you've kicked everybody out
and done the washing up, you can

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have a little sit down and a relax.

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The heart rate settles, digestion comes
back to normal, and everything resets.

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Jen: But coming back to stress, the
problem is the version where the guests

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never leave, so the hobs stay on full day
after day, and that upkeep never happens.

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The post piles up, the washing up
festers, and the kitchen, after

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a while it starts to fall apart.

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Chris: Is this Jamie's house party again?

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The flowers

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Jen: are dead in the vase.

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Well, potentially.

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I don't, I don't know.

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Chris: I want to went to the… I
want to get an invite to the next one.

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Jen: But that's, that's like
chronic stress, and your body's

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stuck in that emergency mode with
no time to actually repair itself.

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Jamie: And you're telling me
that's what does the damage?

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Not the scramble, but the
scramble that never ends.

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Mm. Anyone can run a five-minute panic.

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Nobody's built to run it for a long time.

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Chris: Yeah, and that's it in one line.

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So in short bursts, this saves you,
but if you run permanently, the same

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chemistry that helped you starts
wearing the body down system by system.

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Jen: And the heart shows
it the most clearly.

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So chronic stress is now, uh, treated
as an independent risk factor for

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cardiovascular disease, and it's
ranked alongside high blood pressure,

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high cholesterol, and smoking.

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I think that's fascinating.

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Wow.

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Jamie: Hang on.

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So you're putting long-term stress
into the same bracket as smoking?

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Jen: Yeah.

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And- The effect on the body

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… 
Chris: I know.

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And it, I mean, it sounds dramatic,
but there is actually method

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to the madness, isn't there?

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So, um, adrenaline and cortisol keep
your heart rate and your blood pressure

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up, but over time, that damages blood
vessels and builds plaque in the arteries.

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And in fact, there was, um, there was a
2023 study that found that depression and

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anxiety, which sit right next to chronic
stress, they raised the risk of a major

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heart event by about 35% and brought the
warning signs forward by about six months

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Jen: It's huge.

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And people with the highest cumulative
stress scores, they showed roughly a

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22% higher risk of that arterial plaque
and a 20% higher risk of cardiovascular

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disease independent of the usual suspects.

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Jamie: So although stress doesn't
hand you a heart attack on

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the spot, it quietly moves the
whole- Yeah … timeline forward.

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Chris: Yeah.

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Absolutely.

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And that's the shift that matters.

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So if you've already, if you already
know you've got kinda hearth- heart

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risk factors, it's a reason to have a
kind of sensible conversation with your

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GP, but it's not a reason to panic.

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Jamie: Yeah.

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So be wary of it if you're in the high
risk category, but carry on calmly.

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Chris: Absolutely right.

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Yeah.

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And, um, in terms of the immune
system, so the immune system's

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response to stress can be useful,
but it can also be counterintuitive,

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and it depends on the timeframe.

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So in the short term, as we mentioned
earlier, a burst of stress actually

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sharpens your defenses and your
body braces for a possible injury.

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Jamie: So the five-minute
stress version is the immune

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system rolling up its sleeves.

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Mm-hmm.

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Jen: For a few minutes, yes.

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But run it for months and it flips.

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So sustained cortisol, that suppresses
parts of your immune response, so it

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slows your T-cells, and there's ev- even
evidence it blunts how well vaccines work.

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Mm.

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Jamie: That's the cruel
timing everyone knows.

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You're never ill during a busy stretch,
and then as, as soon as the holidays

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come along, you get ill the first day.

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Jen: Oh, that's happened
to me so many times.

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Chris: I know.

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Everyone.

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It's like it knows, isn't it?

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Jen: I know.

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Chris: Yeah.

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And it's a genuinely
common pattern, isn't it?

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And the timing fits because, um, there's
reasonable evidence that this low-grade

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inflammation feeds into some autoimmune
conditions too, so things like, uh, lupus

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or rheumatoid, rheumatoid arthritis.

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Though, it's worth saying that this is an
association researchers are still focusing

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on, so there's not full-on conclusions
yet, just to put the caveat out there.

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Jen: Yeah.

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And that caution matters because
the honest version is more

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useful than the scary one.

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The better established story is the brain,
the hippocampus, which is central to

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your memory and learning, is especially
sensitive to a long soak in cortisol,

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and it can actually shrink a little,
which makes your memory, it can make

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your memory and focus feel foggier.

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Mm. Which is never a good thing when
you're trying to live day to day.

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Jamie: So the walking into a room and
forgotting, forgetting why you went there

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thing is, uh, is not you being hopeless.

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It's just chemistry.

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Chris: Largely, yes.

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And, uh, naming it that way
is actually kinder, I guess, a

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bit more generous and accurate.

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Um, and th- there's even work or research
that's shown that our brain's cell, um,

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telomeres, which are the protective caps
that are on the end of our DNA, were

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about twice as long in healthy people
as in people with major depression.

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So chronic stress does actually
seem to age people faster.

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Jen: And the simplest effect
of it all is the muscles.

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So under stress, your muscles brace
like almost like a flinch and, you

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know, they're meant to let go once
it passes, but stay braced for weeks

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and you get those, like, tension
headaches, your tight neck, your

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aching lower back, and you probably
don't think of stress as the cause.

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Jamie: Tight neck I can confirm,
and the gut's on the same list.

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That off-your-food feeling
when you're feeling stressed.

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Chris: Absolutely.

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It's de- it's definitely on the same list.

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Mm. So digestion actually is one
of the first jobs that the body

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drops in order to kind of deal
with a, an immediate emergency,

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um, when it's being stressed out.

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So when you are stressed, that's why
you often get this kind of knotted

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or queasy feeling in the tummy.

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Jen: Oh, that's such a
horrible feeling, isn't it?

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Mm. I get that sometimes.

244
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But it, these effects, they
don't hit everyone the same.

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So there was a Mental Health UK burnout
report found 9 in 10 people had felt high

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or extreme stress in the past year, and
the 18 to 34s are the, are carrying most

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of it, and a lot of those stresses were
tied to work, money, and working hours.

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Chris: It makes sense, doesn't it?

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'Cause, you know, the 18 to 34, you
know, the age group we're all in-

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Jen: Yeah, yeah, yeah … of course, yeah.

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Chris: Yeah.

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00:11:41,982 --> 00:11:47,052
That's often the stage of life that we've
got the kinda least control, um, over

253
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your time, but the most uncertainty ahead.

254
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So the same pressure lands harder when
you're rushing around or, you know,

255
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you can't see the wood for the trees.

256
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Jen: Yeah, yeah.

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Jamie: And can we kill the
unhelpful myth while we're at it,

258
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it's all in your head, just relax?

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As if you could think your blood
pressure back down by deciding to.

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Jen: Can you imagine if you could do that?

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Chris: Yeah.

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The power

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Jen: Yeah, I agree.

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You know, but thoughts are real.

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We have to acknowledge that.

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And then, but so is everything
downstream of them, so like the

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raised heart rate, the cortisol,
the suppressed immune response.

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None of it's imaginary, and so telling
someone it's all in their head, which

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I'm sure happens a lot, it's both
unkind and it's frankly wrong, isn't it?

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00:12:30,476 --> 00:12:31,516
Chris: Yeah, absolutely right.

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And of course, it, it cuts
both ways, doesn't it?

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Because, because the response is physical,
the things that calm it when it comes

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to stress are often physical too.

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So you don't have to somehow win an
argument with your own brain to make

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a difference, and in fact, you might
get a few funny looks if you're trying

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to argue with yourself in public.

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Let's be honest.

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Jamie: Right.

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The bit I've been waiting for,
what actually moves the needle, and

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what's just a nice-sounding noise?

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00:12:53,846 --> 00:12:56,836
Chris: So by a distance, the
strongest evidence is for

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movement, probably unsurprisingly.

283
00:12:58,696 --> 00:13:03,256
Mm. So research consistently shows
that physical activity reliably lowers

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cortisol and improves sleep, and this
has been reported in multiple studies.

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00:13:08,376 --> 00:13:12,386
Um, importantly though, it's the dose
is far gentler than most people realize.

286
00:13:12,396 --> 00:13:16,526
So you're only talking about 20
minutes or so of something moderate.

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00:13:16,886 --> 00:13:20,356
So most days, if you do s- some
kind of moderate exercise, even

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00:13:20,356 --> 00:13:23,686
brisk walking, that makes a colossal
difference to managing stress.

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00:13:23,966 --> 00:13:29,556
Jen: Which I love this because as a
runner, I'll take any excuse, um, to

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00:13:29,556 --> 00:13:32,166
get outdoors and to move your body.

291
00:13:32,166 --> 00:13:36,796
But the real headline is consistency
beats intensity, doesn't it?

292
00:13:36,806 --> 00:13:43,036
So a steady walk you keep up does far
more than that occasional heroic session

293
00:13:43,276 --> 00:13:47,806
that you dread and abandon- Yeah … and
then you're sore for days afterwards.

294
00:13:47,846 --> 00:13:51,676
Jamie: Yes, and without sounding like
a motivational quote, the best exercise

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00:13:51,676 --> 00:13:53,276
is one that you will actually do.

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Jen: Yeah, absolutely.

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00:13:54,366 --> 00:13:55,916
Chris: You always sound
like a motivational quote.

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00:13:55,966 --> 00:13:58,216
Uh, but you're absolutely right.

299
00:13:58,216 --> 00:14:02,006
And, um, then we've got the
kind of in the, in-the-moment

300
00:14:02,006 --> 00:14:03,046
option, I suppose we'll call it.

301
00:14:03,076 --> 00:14:07,016
Which, uh, so the fastest tool to kind of
de-stress is to work on your breathing.

302
00:14:07,116 --> 00:14:08,786
So we should all do this together.

303
00:14:08,786 --> 00:14:12,726
So a double inhale through the nose,
then a long, slow exhale through the

304
00:14:12,726 --> 00:14:17,286
mouth, and in this kind of exercise,
it's the out breath that, which is

305
00:14:17,286 --> 00:14:20,676
the active part because it's gently
putting the brakes on your heart rate.

306
00:14:21,226 --> 00:14:24,446
And so just like the movement approach,
it's something really straightforward

307
00:14:24,456 --> 00:14:26,126
to do that makes a big difference.

308
00:14:26,186 --> 00:14:26,466
Jen: Yeah.

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00:14:26,466 --> 00:14:28,876
Jamie: But a word of warning
with the breathing technique,

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00:14:29,196 --> 00:14:30,956
do it discreet, discreetly.

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00:14:31,106 --> 00:14:35,316
A big dramatic sigh in a meeting
might reflect badly on the last

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00:14:35,326 --> 00:14:36,796
person's comment who just spoke.

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00:14:37,206 --> 00:14:37,396
Jen: Yeah.

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00:14:37,396 --> 00:14:37,866
Chris: That's true.

315
00:14:38,256 --> 00:14:39,726
It takes me back to the
yawning episode we did.

316
00:14:39,726 --> 00:14:42,226
I, I couldn't stop yawning- … all
the way through that, uh, episode.

317
00:14:42,226 --> 00:14:42,476
Yeah.

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00:14:43,424 --> 00:14:47,044
Jen: You know, and that office sigh
is a loaded gesture, but it, it

319
00:14:47,044 --> 00:14:49,584
works maybe without the theater.

320
00:14:49,864 --> 00:14:52,874
Um, but the slower tools
are, are strong too.

321
00:14:52,874 --> 00:14:57,354
So there's good evidence that an
eight-week mindfulness course around

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00:14:57,354 --> 00:15:03,274
10 to 20 minutes a day actually
lowers cortisol, um, and gives the

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00:15:03,274 --> 00:15:05,044
brain a bit of a nudge as well.

324
00:15:05,304 --> 00:15:05,954
Chris: Yeah, definitely.

325
00:15:05,984 --> 00:15:10,004
And, um, there was one trial that found
that kind of course held up about as well

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00:15:10,004 --> 00:15:11,754
as a common anxiety medication, actually.

327
00:15:12,174 --> 00:15:16,044
Uh, but I need to put my Captain
Sensible hat on again, as always.

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00:15:16,044 --> 00:15:16,494
Always.

329
00:15:16,494 --> 00:15:19,624
Uh, that please don't take that
comment as a recommendation to

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00:15:19,624 --> 00:15:20,814
swap your medication for an app.

331
00:15:20,834 --> 00:15:21,134
Jen: Yeah,

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00:15:21,224 --> 00:15:21,314
Chris: definitely.

333
00:15:21,314 --> 00:15:24,144
So if you're taking medication and
thinking about changing direction,

334
00:15:24,604 --> 00:15:25,604
always speak to your doctor.

335
00:15:25,684 --> 00:15:25,954
Jen: Yeah.

336
00:15:26,554 --> 00:15:27,254
Jamie: Sensible.

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00:15:27,384 --> 00:15:29,634
Easy to run too far with
a headline like that.

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00:15:29,634 --> 00:15:30,644
Jen: Yeah, definitely.

339
00:15:30,924 --> 00:15:31,364
Chris: Uh, yeah.

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00:15:31,794 --> 00:15:33,264
I've always got to put the
disclaimers in, you know-

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00:15:33,464 --> 00:15:33,754
Jen: Yeah,

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00:15:33,764 --> 00:15:34,444
Chris: um- … just, just in case

343
00:15:34,504 --> 00:15:36,224
… 
Jen: we love a, a Captain Sensible

344
00:15:36,224 --> 00:15:36,474
Chris: air.

345
00:15:36,484 --> 00:15:36,504
Yeah.

346
00:15:37,054 --> 00:15:37,294
I know.

347
00:15:37,304 --> 00:15:38,594
I have to fight for the
Captain Sensible fit.

348
00:15:38,634 --> 00:15:39,504
In fact, where's Matt?

349
00:15:39,604 --> 00:15:41,234
Uh, Matt will sometimes
try to take it off me.

350
00:15:41,954 --> 00:15:45,834
Oh, so two more points that
have solid backing here.

351
00:15:46,134 --> 00:15:49,604
So the first is sleep and stress feed
each other, which is no surprise.

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00:15:49,614 --> 00:15:54,204
Mm. So we know that poor sleep, oh,
sorry, poor stress makes you, you more

353
00:15:54,204 --> 00:15:56,414
reactive, and stress wrecks your sleep.

354
00:15:56,844 --> 00:15:59,974
So working on your sleep has a
huge impact on stress, but indeed,

355
00:15:59,974 --> 00:16:04,540
working on stress has a huge impact
on sleep Um, the other is simply

356
00:16:04,570 --> 00:16:05,790
actually being around other people.

357
00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:06,230
Yeah.

358
00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:10,290
So regular social contact measurably
steadies the stress chemistry.

359
00:16:10,700 --> 00:16:11,200
Jen: That's interesting.

360
00:16:11,230 --> 00:16:15,070
Jamie: So a walk with a friend is
basically a double dose, movement

361
00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,230
and socializing at the same time.

362
00:16:17,230 --> 00:16:17,760
Chris: Absolutely.

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00:16:17,890 --> 00:16:18,230
Jen: Yeah.

364
00:16:18,230 --> 00:16:21,440
It ticks several boxes at once.

365
00:16:21,450 --> 00:16:24,430
Um, and diet is another
one people think about.

366
00:16:24,430 --> 00:16:29,180
So just to be straight, the evidence with
diet impacting stress, it's much thinner.

367
00:16:29,590 --> 00:16:35,500
Um, there is early work that omega-3
fatty acids might blunt the body's

368
00:16:35,580 --> 00:16:40,250
blood pressure response to stress a
little, but it is emerging, it's not

369
00:16:40,250 --> 00:16:43,110
proven, and I wouldn't oversell it.

370
00:16:43,730 --> 00:16:46,330
Jamie: And I'm the last person who
should oversell it, given that I

371
00:16:46,420 --> 00:16:48,310
co-own a company that sells omega-3.

372
00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:50,860
Our omega-3 is a good product.

373
00:16:51,070 --> 00:16:54,020
It's not a stress cure, and I'd
rather tell you that plainly

374
00:16:54,030 --> 00:16:55,100
rather than dressing it up.

375
00:16:55,270 --> 00:16:55,710
Jen: Yeah.

376
00:16:55,970 --> 00:16:57,398
Chris: I think we've got to
kind of flash a product in

377
00:16:57,398 --> 00:16:57,950
front of the screen, you know.

378
00:16:58,060 --> 00:16:58,250
Yeah.

379
00:16:58,290 --> 00:17:01,160
We're not trying to sell it,
you know, or make any claims.

380
00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:05,090
Um, I'm gonna put my last Captain Sensible
hat on again- Yeah … if you don't mind.

381
00:17:05,690 --> 00:17:11,160
Um, if stress is genuinely affecting
your health, your sleep, your mood,

382
00:17:11,430 --> 00:17:14,860
et cetera, that's a conversation
with a doctor, not a podcast.

383
00:17:14,870 --> 00:17:19,820
So the support out there is strong when
it comes to stress, and using it is smart.

384
00:17:20,020 --> 00:17:21,080
It's not a failure.

385
00:17:21,180 --> 00:17:21,310
No.

386
00:17:21,310 --> 00:17:21,760
It's really important to

387
00:17:22,340 --> 00:17:22,520
Jen: point that

388
00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:22,530
Jamie: out.

389
00:17:22,530 --> 00:17:25,430
Mm. So why does stress make us feel ill?

390
00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:33,350
Jen: Because the body has a fast, powerful
emergenc- emergency response that it's

391
00:17:33,350 --> 00:17:35,600
super for, like, a short scramble.

392
00:17:36,090 --> 00:17:40,130
It raises your heart rate, floods
you with energy, and switches

393
00:17:40,130 --> 00:17:41,870
off everything non-essential.

394
00:17:42,230 --> 00:17:44,920
The harm isn't in switching it on.

395
00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:47,580
It's n- in never switching it off.

396
00:17:47,590 --> 00:17:52,130
So the heart, the immune system,
brain, the gut, they all spend months

397
00:17:52,130 --> 00:17:56,420
running in a state that was actually
only ever meant to last minutes.

398
00:17:56,890 --> 00:17:59,510
Jamie: So the goal was
never a stress-free life.

399
00:17:59,590 --> 00:18:01,420
That doesn't actually exist anyway.

400
00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:03,970
Mm. It's actually making
sure the guests at my dinner

401
00:18:03,970 --> 00:18:06,170
party- … actually leave eventually.

402
00:18:06,630 --> 00:18:11,540
Hobs back down, washing up done,
the kitchen back to itself, um,

403
00:18:11,620 --> 00:18:13,100
before the next lot turn up.

404
00:18:13,700 --> 00:18:14,610
Chris: And that's the key point.

405
00:18:14,750 --> 00:18:17,970
Maybe not the dinner party, but the key
point is you're not broken for feeling it.

406
00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:18,460
Jen: Yeah.

407
00:18:18,510 --> 00:18:20,970
Chris: You just need the off switch
to work as well as the on switch

408
00:18:20,970 --> 00:18:21,990
does when it comes to stress.

409
00:18:22,360 --> 00:18:23,530
Jen: Yeah, definitely.

410
00:18:24,150 --> 00:18:26,190
So that is it for this week.

411
00:18:26,260 --> 00:18:28,810
Make sure you hit that subscribe button.

412
00:18:29,110 --> 00:18:32,800
We're unpacking the science behind
everyday questions each week.

413
00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:36,040
Tell us in the comments what
you'd like us to explore next.

414
00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:40,040
Thanks for geeking out with us,
but for now, that's it from me.

415
00:18:40,450 --> 00:18:41,360
Jamie: That's it from me.

416
00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:42,510
Chris: And that's it from me.

417
00:18:42,930 --> 00:18:43,690
Jen: Bye for now