1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:06,240 What would it look like to start a community that was really 2 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:10,960 it's for the people like Jesus would be for? 3 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:15,760 Welcome to Heaven Earth Church. 4 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:19,520 I'm Ross Stackhouse, the founding pastor of Heaven Earth Church. 5 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,440 From the start, our heart has been to be a church for people who 6 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:25,440 don't fit neatly into church. 7 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:29,040 We want to meet people where they are and know their stories. 8 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:32,460 Because in every story there is God story. 9 00:00:33,020 --> 00:00:35,220 And this podcast is just about that. 10 00:00:35,220 --> 00:00:38,580 It's about inviting you to the stories of the people of Heaven Earth 11 00:00:38,580 --> 00:00:39,020 Church. 12 00:00:39,580 --> 00:00:41,500 So let's turn to the story. 13 00:00:44,060 --> 00:00:45,020 Hello good people. 14 00:00:45,100 --> 00:00:50,140 Brad Miller here, the producer and the co host of the Heaven Earth 15 00:00:50,300 --> 00:00:51,660 Church podcast. 16 00:00:52,060 --> 00:00:55,900 All about a church that's dedicated to making a lasting impact 17 00:00:56,300 --> 00:00:57,100 in our community. 18 00:00:57,670 --> 00:01:02,110 This podcast is all about meeting the people connected to the 19 00:01:02,110 --> 00:01:04,070 church and learning more about them. 20 00:01:04,310 --> 00:01:07,070 We have a fascinating interview here today with Spencer 21 00:01:07,070 --> 00:01:07,830 Metcalfe. 22 00:01:07,830 --> 00:01:11,270 Before we get into that, into that interview, we did want you to 23 00:01:11,270 --> 00:01:15,470 know you can always connect up with Heaven Earth Church at one of 24 00:01:15,470 --> 00:01:18,550 three gatherings that take place every week. 25 00:01:19,110 --> 00:01:22,710 One is the Sunday morning conversation which takes place live 26 00:01:22,710 --> 00:01:26,470 and in person at the main campus at the 309 E. 27 00:01:26,630 --> 00:01:27,510 Main St. 28 00:01:27,910 --> 00:01:29,430 In Whiteland, Indiana. 29 00:01:29,670 --> 00:01:34,510 And simultaneously to the in person worship experience is the 30 00:01:34,510 --> 00:01:41,830 online experience which you can access@YouTube.com heavenerthchurch 31 00:01:42,470 --> 00:01:46,870 we also make reference in this episode to the Wednesday night gathering 32 00:01:46,870 --> 00:01:50,790 called Recovery Church, which has a special emphasis on people 33 00:01:50,790 --> 00:01:52,830 facing recovery issues. 34 00:01:53,150 --> 00:01:57,270 That's at 6:30pm every Wednesday night and always includes 35 00:01:57,270 --> 00:01:57,950 a meal. 36 00:01:58,110 --> 00:02:01,310 You can find out everything you want to know about Heaven earth 37 00:02:01,310 --> 00:02:04,910 church@heavenearthchurch.org. 38 00:02:06,990 --> 00:02:12,350 A pleasure to have with us here on the podcast today Spencer 39 00:02:12,350 --> 00:02:14,710 Metcalfe, who's going to be sharing with us a little bit of some 40 00:02:14,710 --> 00:02:17,750 of what things he's experienced and the organization 41 00:02:17,750 --> 00:02:20,950 that he works for and then his relationship with the church. 42 00:02:20,950 --> 00:02:23,810 But Spencer, welcome to our conversation here today. 43 00:02:23,970 --> 00:02:25,890 Yes, well, thank you so much for having me. 44 00:02:25,890 --> 00:02:26,850 Excited to be here. 45 00:02:27,010 --> 00:02:27,530 Awesome. 46 00:02:27,530 --> 00:02:28,130 Awesome. 47 00:02:28,290 --> 00:02:31,570 Well, Spencer, tell us a little bit you let's kind of talk 48 00:02:31,570 --> 00:02:34,650 with for a second about who you work for and with and then we're 49 00:02:34,650 --> 00:02:37,690 going to talk about how you got there and how the a little bit 50 00:02:37,690 --> 00:02:40,090 of the church journey was a part of that process too. 51 00:02:40,090 --> 00:02:43,290 Tell me a little bit about the organization that you work for and 52 00:02:43,290 --> 00:02:44,010 what you do there. 53 00:02:44,010 --> 00:02:44,930 Yeah, absolutely. 54 00:02:44,930 --> 00:02:48,130 So I currently work for an organization called Spark Recovery. 55 00:02:48,290 --> 00:02:51,810 We are an outpatient recovery center on the north side of Indianapolis. 56 00:02:51,810 --> 00:02:55,470 So we're actually just right off of 96 in Meridian and we're providing 57 00:02:55,470 --> 00:02:59,030 outpatient therapy and services to clients with substance 58 00:02:59,030 --> 00:03:01,630 use disorder, often in early recovery. 59 00:03:02,110 --> 00:03:05,630 And then we also have another company called Reverie Sober Living. 60 00:03:05,630 --> 00:03:07,430 So we recently just opened that. 61 00:03:07,430 --> 00:03:10,110 And so we're providing the housing and the clinical treatment. 62 00:03:10,750 --> 00:03:14,270 And so I've been out there for a little over a year and started 63 00:03:14,270 --> 00:03:17,470 out really in the community side of things, doing business development, 64 00:03:18,190 --> 00:03:21,070 fostering and strengthening community partnerships and things 65 00:03:21,070 --> 00:03:21,630 like that. 66 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:26,080 Um, and then with the recent expansion, I've shifted to more of 67 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,200 an internal operations role within Spark and Reverie, so. 68 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:30,800 Okay, well, then tell us a little bit. 69 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:31,840 That's what you do. 70 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,840 And it's obviously an organization that really works intensely 71 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:35,120 with. 72 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:37,680 With people recovering from various addictions. 73 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:40,200 Tell us a little bit about the process, kind of the journey that 74 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:42,160 led you eventually to end up with that job. 75 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:45,520 And we're talking about in the process, how that relates to the 76 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:46,960 mission and ministry of Heaven and Earth. 77 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:47,760 Church in a minute. 78 00:03:47,940 --> 00:03:49,140 Yeah, absolutely. 79 00:03:49,540 --> 00:03:50,900 Well, it. 80 00:03:50,900 --> 00:03:51,540 It's a. 81 00:03:51,940 --> 00:03:54,020 It's a bit of a journey, if you will. 82 00:03:55,140 --> 00:04:03,060 So, you know, when I got out of DOC back in, gosh, 2017, I knew 83 00:04:03,060 --> 00:04:04,099 I wanted to work with people. 84 00:04:04,099 --> 00:04:05,740 I knew I wanted to work in the Behavioral Health. 85 00:04:05,740 --> 00:04:06,900 Just declared the doc. 86 00:04:06,900 --> 00:04:08,060 Department of Corrections, correct? 87 00:04:08,060 --> 00:04:08,500 Yes. 88 00:04:08,500 --> 00:04:08,980 Yeah. 89 00:04:09,140 --> 00:04:10,580 Department of Corrections or prison. 90 00:04:11,140 --> 00:04:13,540 I knew I wanted to work with people, but didn't know what that 91 00:04:13,540 --> 00:04:14,140 looked like. 92 00:04:14,140 --> 00:04:16,660 Didn't know, you know, what my future held. 93 00:04:17,700 --> 00:04:21,160 But I did take a class to become certified recovery coach while 94 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:22,720 I was in the Department of Corrections. 95 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,200 And so when I got out, I followed up to. 96 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:26,400 To get certified. 97 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:31,680 And so I would say about a year or so post release, I got certified 98 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:35,000 as a recovery coach and have been working within the Behavioral 99 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:37,040 Health substance use space ever since. 100 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:43,680 My first, you know, starting point with that specific job was 101 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:48,240 I worked in a small outpatient clinic in downtown Indianapolis. 102 00:04:48,590 --> 00:04:52,750 I did that for about six months, and my real takeoff or launch 103 00:04:52,750 --> 00:04:55,390 off point was my job at IU Health. 104 00:04:55,870 --> 00:04:59,550 So after about six months at the small outpatient clinic, I got 105 00:04:59,550 --> 00:05:00,670 a job at IU Health. 106 00:05:00,670 --> 00:05:04,269 They got a lot of grant money, both state and federal, to essentially 107 00:05:04,269 --> 00:05:07,430 put recovery coaches in all 15 of their emergency departments across 108 00:05:07,430 --> 00:05:07,950 the state. 109 00:05:08,430 --> 00:05:13,070 So I helped oversee that team and supervise it to be able to provide 110 00:05:13,550 --> 00:05:18,290 essentially crisis use assessments and all of those various 111 00:05:18,290 --> 00:05:22,770 emergency departments, and then my team within, help those folks 112 00:05:22,770 --> 00:05:26,570 that were struggling get into treatment or recovery resources or 113 00:05:26,570 --> 00:05:29,290 access to other community care needs. 114 00:05:29,370 --> 00:05:33,450 And you became a part of this, at least in part, because you were 115 00:05:33,450 --> 00:05:36,250 served by similar services, is that right? 116 00:05:36,250 --> 00:05:37,530 Yes, absolutely. 117 00:05:37,610 --> 00:05:38,330 Because you. 118 00:05:38,810 --> 00:05:41,770 We can Go as deep in this as you want to or feel comfortable doing. 119 00:05:41,770 --> 00:05:44,690 But you needed those services because you had your own addiction 120 00:05:44,690 --> 00:05:44,970 issues. 121 00:05:45,590 --> 00:05:47,470 Do you want to say anything about that in terms of how that kind 122 00:05:47,470 --> 00:05:49,990 of led you to where that's a part of the story? 123 00:05:49,990 --> 00:05:50,470 Is what I. 124 00:05:50,470 --> 00:05:51,710 Oh, absolutely, yes. 125 00:05:51,710 --> 00:05:52,230 Yeah. 126 00:05:52,950 --> 00:05:56,870 I mean, yeah, my, you know, addiction started at the age of 16. 127 00:05:58,150 --> 00:06:02,070 You know, I tell people I am the golden child of the opioid epidemic. 128 00:06:02,550 --> 00:06:05,790 If you think of things like, you know, the OxyContin crisis and 129 00:06:05,790 --> 00:06:08,470 over prescribing of Vicodin, that is my generation. 130 00:06:08,470 --> 00:06:11,030 That is, you know, a lot of my youth story. 131 00:06:11,350 --> 00:06:15,440 So, of course, started with things, quote unquote, as benign 132 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:17,200 as, you know, alcohol or marijuana. 133 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:22,080 But the thing that really stuck with me or that I really, you 134 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:24,560 know, latched on to was the opioids. 135 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:26,880 I remember the first time I took an opioid. 136 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:32,080 I wasn't familiar with, like, the names or anything, but I remember. 137 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:35,960 I remember taking it in about 10, 15 minutes after taking it. 138 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:40,180 I remember the feeling it gave me, and I remember never not wanting 139 00:06:40,180 --> 00:06:41,140 to feel like that again. 140 00:06:41,140 --> 00:06:41,580 Yeah. 141 00:06:41,580 --> 00:06:43,620 And I asked my friend, I said, what is this called? 142 00:06:43,780 --> 00:06:44,980 And how do we get more. 143 00:06:45,060 --> 00:06:45,420 Right. 144 00:06:45,420 --> 00:06:49,860 I mean, there's a very clear moment in my life at that moment 145 00:06:50,020 --> 00:06:52,020 where I chased it for 10 years. 146 00:06:52,100 --> 00:06:55,660 So the actual aspect of addiction, physical otherwise, was 147 00:06:55,660 --> 00:06:59,340 a pretty, you know, pretty early on yesterday. 148 00:06:59,340 --> 00:07:01,060 It wasn't like a gradual leading up. 149 00:07:01,060 --> 00:07:02,020 You could have dived yet. 150 00:07:02,020 --> 00:07:02,580 Is that right? 151 00:07:02,580 --> 00:07:02,980 Correct. 152 00:07:02,980 --> 00:07:04,060 Yeah, absolutely. 153 00:07:04,060 --> 00:07:05,460 And so that led you to. 154 00:07:05,460 --> 00:07:08,740 In a pathway that fit you, led you, land you in the Department of 155 00:07:08,740 --> 00:07:11,420 Corrections and kind of goes back to the journey we mentioned 156 00:07:11,420 --> 00:07:11,660 there. 157 00:07:11,660 --> 00:07:11,980 Yes. 158 00:07:11,980 --> 00:07:12,540 As well. 159 00:07:14,220 --> 00:07:18,380 Let's talk for a minute, Spencer, then, about how the recovery 160 00:07:18,380 --> 00:07:18,700 process. 161 00:07:18,860 --> 00:07:22,900 I believe, as I've experienced with people in my life and people 162 00:07:22,900 --> 00:07:26,100 I've known in my ministry, I'm retired pastor who've gone through 163 00:07:26,100 --> 00:07:26,380 it. 164 00:07:27,180 --> 00:07:31,060 Each time anybody recovers and gets on the journey of recovery, 165 00:07:31,060 --> 00:07:36,820 it is a miraculous situation because so many people do get, you 166 00:07:36,820 --> 00:07:40,340 know, kind of go down to a vortex of that leads to demise. 167 00:07:40,340 --> 00:07:41,860 That's pretty bad. 168 00:07:41,860 --> 00:07:42,500 Absolutely. 169 00:07:42,580 --> 00:07:43,180 Am I. 170 00:07:43,180 --> 00:07:43,980 Am I accurate now? 171 00:07:43,980 --> 00:07:44,180 I'm. 172 00:07:44,180 --> 00:07:46,540 That I'm speaking, not trying to speak for you, but is that an 173 00:07:46,540 --> 00:07:48,820 accurate representation of your experience as well? 174 00:07:48,900 --> 00:07:52,300 Oh, yeah, I know I would absolutely agree with you that, you 175 00:07:52,300 --> 00:07:56,180 know, there's only a few ways that, you know, addiction really 176 00:07:56,670 --> 00:07:57,110 ends. 177 00:07:57,110 --> 00:07:57,470 Right. 178 00:07:57,550 --> 00:07:59,230 And most of them aren't pretty. 179 00:07:59,710 --> 00:08:01,310 Um, you know, I. 180 00:08:01,310 --> 00:08:05,550 Unfortunately, I think that folks achieving recovery, even if 181 00:08:05,550 --> 00:08:09,790 temporary, still seems to be like the, the smaller percentage. 182 00:08:09,790 --> 00:08:12,790 A lot of folks like you, to your point, get sucked up in that 183 00:08:12,790 --> 00:08:18,110 vortex of further illness or death or, or insane asylums or what 184 00:08:18,110 --> 00:08:18,590 have you. 185 00:08:18,670 --> 00:08:19,150 Yeah. 186 00:08:19,230 --> 00:08:21,710 And people around them get sucked into that, too. 187 00:08:21,950 --> 00:08:28,550 Family, friends, other societal entities, they all get impacted 188 00:08:28,550 --> 00:08:29,070 by that, right? 189 00:08:29,070 --> 00:08:29,350 Yes. 190 00:08:29,350 --> 00:08:30,110 Oh, absolutely. 191 00:08:30,830 --> 00:08:34,790 Let's talk for a second then about how your, you made us somehow 192 00:08:34,790 --> 00:08:37,670 made a connection with the mission and ministry of Heaven Earth 193 00:08:37,670 --> 00:08:43,830 Church, and particularly with the, with the Recovery church that 194 00:08:43,830 --> 00:08:45,990 is a part of the life here at Heaven have church. 195 00:08:45,990 --> 00:08:46,750 How did that happen? 196 00:08:46,750 --> 00:08:50,750 How did you get connected or even your, you know, paths crossed 197 00:08:50,750 --> 00:08:52,770 with the folks here? 198 00:08:52,930 --> 00:08:54,770 Well, you know, it's interesting. 199 00:08:54,850 --> 00:08:59,250 It's because of my job at IU Health that I even got connected 200 00:08:59,250 --> 00:09:00,130 with Ross. 201 00:09:00,850 --> 00:09:04,530 So as I shared, you know, I worked out at IU Health for a number 202 00:09:04,530 --> 00:09:07,330 of years, and one of the project managers that was helping 203 00:09:07,330 --> 00:09:10,650 to oversee the administration of one of the grants that we were 204 00:09:10,650 --> 00:09:14,370 awarded was from the Shelbyville area, and she knew that 205 00:09:14,370 --> 00:09:15,570 I lived on the south side. 206 00:09:15,890 --> 00:09:19,690 And she said, hey, I have this guy I went to high school with, and 207 00:09:19,690 --> 00:09:23,530 I think he's starting a church, like in your town or in your 208 00:09:23,530 --> 00:09:26,530 county, and he wants to do something with recovery. 209 00:09:26,530 --> 00:09:29,210 And so I'm going to send you the link to the church website and 210 00:09:29,210 --> 00:09:30,890 would love for you to maybe check it out. 211 00:09:31,210 --> 00:09:32,890 I thought, okay, well, why not? 212 00:09:32,970 --> 00:09:34,810 Any resource is a good resource, right? 213 00:09:34,810 --> 00:09:38,170 And so I remember going to Heaven Earth's, I believe it was 214 00:09:38,170 --> 00:09:41,410 just like the website and signing up for the mailing list and, 215 00:09:41,410 --> 00:09:43,010 you know, kind of poking around on there. 216 00:09:43,010 --> 00:09:45,290 I think at that time the website was pretty bare bones. 217 00:09:45,290 --> 00:09:48,600 You know, this is, it was before COVID so, gosh, over five 218 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:49,760 years ago at that point. 219 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:53,440 And so I said, I remember signing up for the mailing list, 220 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:57,640 but then, I mean, it probably wasn't 30 minutes or an hour after 221 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:01,160 I signed up for the mailing list, I got another email from the 222 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:04,800 pastor, this Ross Stackhouse guy, saying, hey, I see you signed 223 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:05,840 up for our email list. 224 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:09,080 I'd love to, you know, meet with you and learn how you heard 225 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,920 about us and just get a better understanding of what you're doing. 226 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:16,730 And, and so I thought, what, what's going on here with this guy? 227 00:10:16,730 --> 00:10:18,610 You know, it just caught me off guard. 228 00:10:18,610 --> 00:10:22,570 But I, I, I remember emailing Ross back and thinking, okay, I'll 229 00:10:22,570 --> 00:10:23,050 meet with you. 230 00:10:23,050 --> 00:10:26,290 You know, at that point in my life, I tell folks I had experienced 231 00:10:26,290 --> 00:10:30,090 a lot of church trauma because of my addiction, and I'm an openly 232 00:10:30,090 --> 00:10:33,930 gay man, and I Think we all know how that goes to typically in 233 00:10:33,930 --> 00:10:34,730 churches, right? 234 00:10:34,730 --> 00:10:39,890 And so I had sworn off church for a really long time, and at that 235 00:10:39,890 --> 00:10:40,970 moment, I wasn't. 236 00:10:40,970 --> 00:10:43,410 I would say I was probably a little angry at church, but I just 237 00:10:43,410 --> 00:10:45,650 wasn't at a place where I really wanted to entertain that. 238 00:10:45,650 --> 00:10:47,050 But I thought, this is for work. 239 00:10:47,370 --> 00:10:50,130 I want to at least see what this guy has to say. 240 00:10:50,130 --> 00:10:56,730 So I met Ross several weeks later at a cafe in downtown Franklin. 241 00:10:57,770 --> 00:11:00,130 And I remember telling my mom, like, I'm going to meet this pastor 242 00:11:00,130 --> 00:11:00,770 from a church. 243 00:11:00,770 --> 00:11:02,570 He wants to do something with recovery. 244 00:11:03,130 --> 00:11:05,930 Everyone thought I was crazy because they knew kind of my stance 245 00:11:05,930 --> 00:11:09,050 at that moment, you know, And I remember some. 246 00:11:09,050 --> 00:11:12,270 People in your circle, family knew you had some, you know, unh. 247 00:11:12,270 --> 00:11:12,630 Un. 248 00:11:14,070 --> 00:11:15,590 Not good church experiences. 249 00:11:15,990 --> 00:11:16,630 Absolutely. 250 00:11:16,630 --> 00:11:17,030 Yeah. 251 00:11:17,510 --> 00:11:21,630 And so I, you know, met with Ross, and I remember very early off 252 00:11:21,630 --> 00:11:25,590 in the conversation just thinking, this guy is genuine. 253 00:11:25,590 --> 00:11:29,510 You know, you could sense and feel that, the genuine nature. 254 00:11:30,070 --> 00:11:31,550 And we had a great conversation. 255 00:11:31,550 --> 00:11:33,190 I think we talked for well over an hour. 256 00:11:33,830 --> 00:11:36,350 And at the end of it, he said, you know, we're starting this church. 257 00:11:36,350 --> 00:11:38,310 We didn't even have this location yet. 258 00:11:38,310 --> 00:11:40,230 They were just meeting weekly at his house. 259 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:43,840 And he's like, but I'd love to have you out there and, you know, 260 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:46,440 talk about what it looked like to get, you know, recovery church 261 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,160 or incorporate recovery into our church. 262 00:11:50,680 --> 00:11:54,480 And so I toyed with it for a while, but, I mean, one thing led 263 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:57,480 to another, and all of a sudden, I'm going to Ross house once 264 00:11:57,480 --> 00:11:59,160 a week, meeting with a small group of people. 265 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:03,600 And then right before COVID you know, there was a. 266 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,520 Another kind of smaller group of us in recovery that would meet 267 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:09,820 with Ross to talk about what does recovery church look like? 268 00:12:09,820 --> 00:12:14,100 How do we incorporate the other tenets of recovery programs 269 00:12:14,100 --> 00:12:18,260 and recovery principles into our own recovery church program to 270 00:12:18,260 --> 00:12:20,820 support folks, you know, kind of the intersection of faith and 271 00:12:20,820 --> 00:12:21,420 recovery. 272 00:12:21,900 --> 00:12:25,620 So did you resonate with that, or did you kind of go, this is kind 273 00:12:25,620 --> 00:12:27,740 of contrived or just didn't quite get it. 274 00:12:27,740 --> 00:12:30,540 Tell me how you kind of reacted kind of viscerally when you're 275 00:12:30,540 --> 00:12:33,020 talking about this whole recovery church thing. 276 00:12:33,660 --> 00:12:40,090 Yeah, well, you know, I feel like there are some great programs 277 00:12:40,090 --> 00:12:40,810 out there that. 278 00:12:40,810 --> 00:12:43,610 That have kind of like, that concept of recovery church. 279 00:12:43,770 --> 00:12:47,770 And what really attracted me to, you know, kind of Ross's vision 280 00:12:47,770 --> 00:12:53,770 and what we're doing out here was that it wasn't so much this, 281 00:12:53,930 --> 00:12:57,010 you have to believe our way or the highway type thing, like, this 282 00:12:57,010 --> 00:12:57,770 is the way it is. 283 00:12:58,010 --> 00:13:01,650 It's A come in where you're at and we'll walk on this journey with 284 00:13:01,650 --> 00:13:02,010 you. 285 00:13:02,490 --> 00:13:05,810 And I really appreciated that because what I found in my own recovery 286 00:13:05,810 --> 00:13:09,870 journey and being in and around recovery for a while is at 287 00:13:09,870 --> 00:13:11,550 a different level or playing field. 288 00:13:11,550 --> 00:13:11,830 Right. 289 00:13:11,830 --> 00:13:14,870 When it comes to their own religious or spiritual journey. 290 00:13:14,870 --> 00:13:18,270 And so I think being able to offer a space that's safe and allowing 291 00:13:18,270 --> 00:13:22,230 folks to ask the difficult questions and kind of wrestle and 292 00:13:22,230 --> 00:13:28,150 struggle with that both alone, but together is a very special place. 293 00:13:28,390 --> 00:13:32,830 And so I like that is something that Ross wanted to do 294 00:13:32,830 --> 00:13:35,520 and that we wanted to be able to offer here at Heaven Earth. 295 00:13:35,590 --> 00:13:35,910 True. 296 00:13:36,630 --> 00:13:40,590 So at that time and then in your journey saying, having said 297 00:13:40,590 --> 00:13:44,390 you'd had some unhappy experiences there, what would do. 298 00:13:44,390 --> 00:13:49,030 What did you see spirituality's role to play in recovery? 299 00:13:49,270 --> 00:13:52,710 What I mean to say by that is there are some people who really, 300 00:13:53,270 --> 00:13:56,790 you know, that's a part of, you know, it's a piece of AA's 12 301 00:13:56,790 --> 00:13:58,190 step programs and so on. 302 00:13:58,190 --> 00:13:58,550 And. 303 00:13:58,550 --> 00:14:01,430 But I know people have different levels of, of understanding 304 00:14:01,430 --> 00:14:01,750 though. 305 00:14:02,190 --> 00:14:02,990 Importance of that. 306 00:14:03,150 --> 00:14:06,670 Was your kind of view of the role of spirituality in recovery 307 00:14:06,830 --> 00:14:09,790 overall and maybe with your particular situation? 308 00:14:10,270 --> 00:14:13,990 Yeah, I mean, I think from my own personal perspective, I think 309 00:14:13,990 --> 00:14:20,190 spirituality plays a very big piece in a person's journey of recovery. 310 00:14:21,070 --> 00:14:24,670 Looking back, there's lots of moments where maybe I wasn't in tune 311 00:14:24,670 --> 00:14:28,990 spiritually, but looking back, there's certainly moments where it's 312 00:14:28,990 --> 00:14:31,070 like there was something greater than myself at play there. 313 00:14:31,070 --> 00:14:31,350 Right. 314 00:14:31,350 --> 00:14:33,230 Or involved in those situations. 315 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:37,480 And so I think when folks get into recovery and begin that journey, 316 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,280 whether they want to acknowledge it or not, that's okay. 317 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:44,040 But I think there is. 318 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:47,680 We need to allow that space for folks to be able to wrestle with 319 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:51,880 that and kind of come to terms with what is their level of comfortability 320 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:55,680 with allowing spirituality to be in their lives, if that makes 321 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:56,120 sense. 322 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:58,360 Well, I think it does. 323 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:01,240 And I want to go with this a little bit deeper on that because, 324 00:15:01,890 --> 00:15:04,370 you know, there are secular treatment centers. 325 00:15:04,370 --> 00:15:05,850 You know, you work at one of those. 326 00:15:05,850 --> 00:15:06,770 Yes, basically. 327 00:15:07,170 --> 00:15:11,490 And then there are, you know, very much heavily faith based treatment 328 00:15:11,730 --> 00:15:14,410 alternatives that some churches have and some entities have. 329 00:15:14,410 --> 00:15:15,970 They're really on that. 330 00:15:16,450 --> 00:15:19,930 What recovery churches says here in their documentation about 331 00:15:19,930 --> 00:15:23,490 what we do here at Heavenly Church is that basically it says 332 00:15:23,490 --> 00:15:27,370 spiritual foundations are a part of recovery, but spirituality 333 00:15:27,370 --> 00:15:29,810 is a supplement to treatment in meetings. 334 00:15:30,230 --> 00:15:35,990 So from your perspective, as someone who's gone through it, now 335 00:15:35,990 --> 00:15:39,510 works in a secular treatment facility and has had connections 336 00:15:39,510 --> 00:15:44,070 with this particular church and the recovery church. 337 00:15:45,110 --> 00:15:46,630 What do you See, how's that working? 338 00:15:46,630 --> 00:15:49,670 And what are some of the benefits that people have when they 339 00:15:49,670 --> 00:15:51,350 have some sort of a. 340 00:15:51,350 --> 00:15:54,470 I don't know, kind of a recipe or a mix of those things that comes 341 00:15:54,470 --> 00:15:54,950 into play? 342 00:15:54,950 --> 00:15:55,590 Is there a. 343 00:15:56,730 --> 00:15:59,210 A way that can be beneficial to people where they can experience 344 00:15:59,290 --> 00:16:01,690 all of pieces of all that? 345 00:16:02,570 --> 00:16:03,690 Yeah, no, absolutely. 346 00:16:03,930 --> 00:16:07,850 I do think when folks strengthen that spiritual component 347 00:16:07,850 --> 00:16:11,290 and incorporate it into their lives and into their recovery journey, 348 00:16:11,770 --> 00:16:15,050 it just creates for a richer recovery journey. 349 00:16:15,050 --> 00:16:19,330 You know, one thing that I have found that's been at least true 350 00:16:19,330 --> 00:16:23,770 for myself and a lot of others that I've, you know, encountered 351 00:16:23,770 --> 00:16:27,370 in this life is that those that are more spiritually in tune 352 00:16:27,990 --> 00:16:32,470 or plugged in seem to have more of a solid foundation in their 353 00:16:32,470 --> 00:16:33,190 recovery. 354 00:16:33,910 --> 00:16:38,750 Not that they're, like, immune or not prone to life and relapse 355 00:16:38,750 --> 00:16:41,430 and things like that, but it's like they have a little bit more 356 00:16:41,430 --> 00:16:45,190 fortitude to withstand those storms and those bad moments because 357 00:16:45,190 --> 00:16:46,870 they have that spiritual component. 358 00:16:47,590 --> 00:16:53,390 Where I found also, you know, there's also seems to be a greater 359 00:16:53,390 --> 00:16:57,750 sense of gratitude and a deeper meaning for them as it relates 360 00:16:57,750 --> 00:17:02,550 to that, where folks maybe that are beginning their spiritual 361 00:17:02,550 --> 00:17:07,030 journey or, you know, just not quite there yet, for a variety of 362 00:17:07,030 --> 00:17:08,470 reasons, they. 363 00:17:09,350 --> 00:17:11,510 They maybe struggle a little bit more. 364 00:17:11,590 --> 00:17:13,270 And that's certainly true for everyone. 365 00:17:13,430 --> 00:17:17,190 But, you know, looking back at, again, my own journey and. 366 00:17:17,350 --> 00:17:19,990 And the folks I work with, both personally and professionally, 367 00:17:19,990 --> 00:17:22,190 that seems to be somewhat of a consistent theme. 368 00:17:22,190 --> 00:17:23,869 Yeah, well, that's. 369 00:17:23,869 --> 00:17:24,549 That's good to hear. 370 00:17:24,549 --> 00:17:27,389 And I think what I'm understanding the recovery church 371 00:17:27,389 --> 00:17:29,429 here to do here at Heaven or church is to really. 372 00:17:29,429 --> 00:17:29,869 To be. 373 00:17:30,189 --> 00:17:36,229 Work in partnership, not at odds with these goals, you know, 374 00:17:36,229 --> 00:17:40,029 to help people get healthy, clean, get sober, whatever terminology 375 00:17:40,429 --> 00:17:42,109 you want to use, but help them to be. 376 00:17:42,509 --> 00:17:45,829 Get back integrated into society, not only for themselves, 377 00:17:45,829 --> 00:17:49,629 but for the good of, you know, their family and friends and their 378 00:17:49,629 --> 00:17:51,549 livelihood and contributions to society. 379 00:17:51,549 --> 00:17:55,100 And so that has to do with kind of the community aspect. 380 00:17:55,100 --> 00:17:57,420 I want to talk to you about for a minute, because I know that 381 00:17:58,300 --> 00:18:00,740 what I'm understanding from our conversation, from your work 382 00:18:00,740 --> 00:18:03,340 that you do and from the work that Heaven Earth Church does through 383 00:18:03,340 --> 00:18:03,660 the. 384 00:18:04,220 --> 00:18:08,620 Through recovery Church is that community integration, community 385 00:18:08,620 --> 00:18:11,180 support is really, really vital. 386 00:18:11,660 --> 00:18:17,340 Tell me how you have seen the integration of community, both kind 387 00:18:17,340 --> 00:18:19,780 of interpersonally, but also in the kind of the physical community, 388 00:18:19,780 --> 00:18:23,310 you know, you know, and the entities, the law enforcement and 389 00:18:23,630 --> 00:18:25,710 social services and everything else out there. 390 00:18:26,110 --> 00:18:28,750 Tell me a little bit about that, about how important it is for 391 00:18:29,150 --> 00:18:32,190 kind of this Partnership, this integration of community support 392 00:18:32,270 --> 00:18:35,070 to be part of what you do professionally and what we do here 393 00:18:35,070 --> 00:18:35,710 at the church. 394 00:18:36,830 --> 00:18:40,270 Yeah, I mean, I, I think as it relates to, you know, that community 395 00:18:40,350 --> 00:18:44,790 involvement and integration, it's so vital because, you know, 396 00:18:44,790 --> 00:18:48,470 when a person is suffering from not just substance use disorder, 397 00:18:48,470 --> 00:18:51,550 but a lot of chronic diseases, they're not often suffering al. 398 00:18:53,450 --> 00:18:58,090 And what I mean by that is they're often putting strain or using 399 00:18:58,090 --> 00:19:01,810 resources within the community, you know, or that the 400 00:19:01,810 --> 00:19:02,970 community is supporting. 401 00:19:03,210 --> 00:19:07,210 And so I think in supporting someone in the recovery journey or 402 00:19:07,210 --> 00:19:10,370 the recovery side of things, having that community support is 403 00:19:10,370 --> 00:19:14,770 so vital because it allows for those that are maybe new to recovery 404 00:19:14,770 --> 00:19:18,010 church, are new to the recovery journey, that that community 405 00:19:18,090 --> 00:19:19,210 aspect is so important. 406 00:19:19,530 --> 00:19:19,930 Right. 407 00:19:20,490 --> 00:19:25,050 And I think that's what's the biggest thing, if nothing else, is 408 00:19:25,050 --> 00:19:28,650 that these individuals see how important community and that community 409 00:19:28,650 --> 00:19:30,490 support is for them. 410 00:19:31,050 --> 00:19:33,730 But then also once they get to that place where they're able to 411 00:19:33,730 --> 00:19:37,930 give back, I think that's also huge because I know, at least for 412 00:19:37,930 --> 00:19:40,610 me personally, I put a huge strain on community resources. 413 00:19:40,610 --> 00:19:45,610 EMS runs, 911, being incarcerated, just list a few. 414 00:19:46,330 --> 00:19:51,360 And so to be able to do community service projects or be 415 00:19:51,360 --> 00:19:55,960 the, be a reliable person for a local officer to call and say, 416 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,640 hey, I just went on a run and you know, I just talked to Johnny 417 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:00,600 Smith and he needs treatment. 418 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:01,160 Can you help? 419 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:05,680 But being that person to be able to help facilitate that is huge. 420 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,320 You know, I mean that, that's almost priceless of being able to 421 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:08,640 give back. 422 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,080 So that's kind of the difference between basically, you 423 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:14,800 know, terminology may not be the best, but being a drain on society 424 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:15,920 and then being an asset. 425 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:16,400 Correct? 426 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:16,790 Yeah. 427 00:20:16,940 --> 00:20:19,020 And that's an important aspect, I believe. 428 00:20:19,020 --> 00:20:23,660 And, and I believe that's kind of the part, the value of partnerships 429 00:20:23,660 --> 00:20:26,260 that heaven or church has has a part to play in that. 430 00:20:26,260 --> 00:20:30,780 And this church is built on, you know, several pillars of understanding, 431 00:20:30,780 --> 00:20:32,660 doctrinal statements of some sort or another. 432 00:20:32,660 --> 00:20:39,500 But a couple of them have to do with being a safe, non, non judgmental 433 00:20:39,500 --> 00:20:39,820 space. 434 00:20:41,660 --> 00:20:43,980 And churches are sometimes not known as that. 435 00:20:43,980 --> 00:20:47,280 Sometimes they are known as a not safe judgmental space. 436 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,280 But I'm going to ask you, you've mentioned about your connection 437 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,360 with the pastor, Ross Stackhouse, but you've also had interactions 438 00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:56,840 with other people in the congregation, not only with recovery 439 00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:00,400 church, but with the worshiping body and other folks connected 440 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:01,440 to the church. 441 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,080 What's your experience about heaven or a church in terms of that 442 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:05,400 pillar? 443 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,360 Are they living up to that pillar of being a safe, non Judge 444 00:21:08,360 --> 00:21:10,240 non judgmental space. 445 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:11,880 Are they living up to it? 446 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:13,490 And if so, how have you experienced that? 447 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:19,600 Yeah, I mean, I could be biased, but I think that, you know, 448 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:23,800 the, the overall congregational body of Heaven Earth 449 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:25,960 Church does a great job of living up to that. 450 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,920 I lovingly and I've heard, I think other people talk about it. 451 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,840 You know, we're kind of like a bunch of misfits brought together. 452 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:38,360 And so I think because of that component, we are all very warm and 453 00:21:38,360 --> 00:21:41,200 welcoming and accepting of each other and each other's journeys. 454 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,720 And just however you come through that door is who you are. 455 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,320 And we're just happy to see you here and be together and be able 456 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:50,320 to worship and praise for an hour, whatever it is. 457 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:54,840 So, you know, everyone that I've come across with my years throughout 458 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:58,920 Heaven Earth Church, I have not felt, you know, this sense of 459 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:02,800 judgment or, you know, being misunderstood or anything like that. 460 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:06,920 I've often always felt like folks are warm and welcoming and 461 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,490 excited to see me, but also that it's genuine. 462 00:22:09,490 --> 00:22:09,690 Right. 463 00:22:09,690 --> 00:22:12,490 Because I think we've all been in places where, you know, they can 464 00:22:12,490 --> 00:22:15,970 roll out the red carpet and maybe present that they're excited, 465 00:22:16,450 --> 00:22:18,970 but then when they turn their backs and they're whispering at their 466 00:22:18,970 --> 00:22:20,290 friends, what are they really saying? 467 00:22:20,690 --> 00:22:22,690 And I don't get the sense that that's happening here. 468 00:22:22,690 --> 00:22:25,890 I get the sense that folks actually do care, they do want you 469 00:22:25,890 --> 00:22:30,850 here, which has been all the difference compared to other churches, 470 00:22:30,850 --> 00:22:32,490 you know, that I've been through throughout my life. 471 00:22:32,490 --> 00:22:36,210 So as a pastor, we sometimes call those the parking lot conversations. 472 00:22:36,450 --> 00:22:37,090 Exactly. 473 00:22:37,490 --> 00:22:39,190 But after what goes up front. 474 00:22:39,190 --> 00:22:42,710 But another what you're touching on here, something else. 475 00:22:42,710 --> 00:22:44,430 I want to go with you here in a minute. 476 00:22:44,750 --> 00:22:50,590 Or is the value the church has of being a, a place for truth, for 477 00:22:50,590 --> 00:22:52,190 truth telling can take place? 478 00:22:52,910 --> 00:22:56,750 And I know that recently you were been able to speak at one of 479 00:22:56,750 --> 00:22:59,310 the Recovery Church events that have to do with basically truth 480 00:22:59,310 --> 00:22:59,750 telling. 481 00:22:59,750 --> 00:23:00,190 Yeah. 482 00:23:00,190 --> 00:23:03,270 So tell me how that value is lived out and do you feel like you've 483 00:23:03,270 --> 00:23:05,280 been able to tell your truth personally? 484 00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:08,280 And do you think it's a safe place for other people that you may 485 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,760 have some understanding of addiction, community or whatever 486 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:13,200 that could be a place to. 487 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:14,480 To tell the truth and be. 488 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:15,600 Be heard as well? 489 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:17,720 Yeah, no, absolutely. 490 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:21,400 So, yeah, the event that you're talking about, the, the Recovery 491 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:25,760 Church speaker series that they recently started, you know, 492 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,680 really, for those that might be familiar with it, it's very similar 493 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,040 to like the traditional AA giving a lead, as they call it, you 494 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:33,680 know, where you get up and you share your story. 495 00:23:34,370 --> 00:23:37,610 Essentially it boils down to what was it like, what happened and 496 00:23:37,610 --> 00:23:38,690 what is it like now. 497 00:23:39,970 --> 00:23:46,250 And so I feel like I, I, I often tell people as a person, be 498 00:23:46,250 --> 00:23:48,850 careful what you ask because you'll probably get an honest answer. 499 00:23:48,930 --> 00:23:51,650 So don't, you know, don't ask if you don't want an honest answer. 500 00:23:51,650 --> 00:23:54,210 So some of that could just be a me thing. 501 00:23:54,210 --> 00:23:57,890 But I feel like I, I can always be transparent or very upfront 502 00:23:58,690 --> 00:24:03,370 and you know, like that event, you know, I shared some, some pretty 503 00:24:03,370 --> 00:24:06,130 serious things, both positive and negative. 504 00:24:06,130 --> 00:24:08,770 You know, I shared some traumas that happened and some, some 505 00:24:08,770 --> 00:24:11,290 really great positive things in, in front of a group full of people 506 00:24:11,290 --> 00:24:15,290 in a church that, you know, most people may not have felt comfortable 507 00:24:15,290 --> 00:24:19,250 sharing, but I felt like I was in my safe space, you know. 508 00:24:20,290 --> 00:24:25,850 And there have been many times in the little circle around recovery 509 00:24:25,850 --> 00:24:28,250 church, you know, we kind of get together in that cliche circle 510 00:24:28,250 --> 00:24:31,710 right as we're talking or we used to, where there have been a 511 00:24:31,710 --> 00:24:36,470 lot of heavy things, truths told and shared by myself and by 512 00:24:36,470 --> 00:24:43,030 other participants in the circle that folks think may typically, 513 00:24:43,030 --> 00:24:45,670 you know, may wouldn't have been shared in a church. 514 00:24:45,670 --> 00:24:49,710 But because it is a safe space and we've created that kind of environment, 515 00:24:50,030 --> 00:24:51,790 folks feel comfortable sharing that. 516 00:24:52,030 --> 00:24:54,510 So I think to, you know, kind of your, your point of like that 517 00:24:54,510 --> 00:24:59,740 truth telling pillar, it very much so rings true for, you know, 518 00:24:59,740 --> 00:25:02,260 at least the interactions I've had and the experiences I've had 519 00:25:02,260 --> 00:25:02,540 here. 520 00:25:02,540 --> 00:25:02,980 Yeah. 521 00:25:02,980 --> 00:25:05,500 Because I think it goes to this set, I'm going to use a word 522 00:25:05,500 --> 00:25:09,060 here that is used, it's kind of a heavy word, but I think it applies 523 00:25:09,780 --> 00:25:10,500 addictions. 524 00:25:10,900 --> 00:25:13,900 People dealing with addiction often bring with it a stigma, you 525 00:25:13,900 --> 00:25:14,820 know, of. 526 00:25:15,380 --> 00:25:19,100 Well, these people cannot be relied upon or this is somebody who's 527 00:25:19,100 --> 00:25:23,700 just going to be, you know, just such a mess that we can't, you 528 00:25:23,700 --> 00:25:26,940 know, be really in communication with that. 529 00:25:26,940 --> 00:25:30,820 And so part of what heaven or church I believe is about is about 530 00:25:30,820 --> 00:25:36,780 a faith community that can help to reframe that stigma that 531 00:25:36,780 --> 00:25:37,820 comes with that. 532 00:25:38,140 --> 00:25:39,500 So what do you think is the role here? 533 00:25:39,500 --> 00:25:44,420 How can a church like Heaven Earth continue to work towards, you 534 00:25:44,420 --> 00:25:48,110 know, kind of going against this stigma of people who deal with 535 00:25:48,110 --> 00:25:48,310 it. 536 00:25:48,310 --> 00:25:50,750 We deal with addictions who have everything else going in their 537 00:25:50,750 --> 00:25:53,510 life too, whatever their other things in their life as well. 538 00:25:53,750 --> 00:25:55,910 But how can a faith community be helpful? 539 00:25:56,550 --> 00:25:59,710 Yeah, well, you know, I think so far so good. 540 00:25:59,710 --> 00:26:00,070 Right. 541 00:26:00,070 --> 00:26:04,550 You know, we've created kind of this groundwork in this support 542 00:26:04,710 --> 00:26:08,950 structure of Recovery Church and allowing folks to come in as 543 00:26:08,950 --> 00:26:11,270 they are, you know, to get that support. 544 00:26:12,070 --> 00:26:15,550 But the one thing that I found really beautiful that I've seen in 545 00:26:15,550 --> 00:26:20,030 the last several years is beginning is where, you know, the 546 00:26:20,030 --> 00:26:23,910 church is beginning to develop some of these longer standing members 547 00:26:24,310 --> 00:26:26,310 in recovery into leaders. 548 00:26:27,510 --> 00:26:30,630 Because I think that's kind of like the next level, if you will. 549 00:26:30,630 --> 00:26:30,910 Right. 550 00:26:30,910 --> 00:26:35,190 Is kind of not only giving them the, the opportunity to recover, 551 00:26:35,190 --> 00:26:38,630 but to like excel and propel their lives forward. 552 00:26:38,630 --> 00:26:38,950 Right. 553 00:26:38,950 --> 00:26:42,670 Because that's how, you know, how my success, you know, really 554 00:26:42,670 --> 00:26:43,590 took off professionally. 555 00:26:43,590 --> 00:26:47,670 Someone rolled the dice on me, you know, is what I tell folks is. 556 00:26:48,030 --> 00:26:48,470 And so. 557 00:26:48,470 --> 00:26:51,670 And I think being able to do that as a church and giving them 558 00:26:51,670 --> 00:26:56,270 these leadership opportunities and allowing folks to grow will just 559 00:26:56,270 --> 00:26:58,990 further strengthen that and support folks in recovery. 560 00:26:58,990 --> 00:27:04,070 And then it just creates, it creates this environment of where 561 00:27:04,070 --> 00:27:06,830 people want to do it, I think, you know, or they see what we have 562 00:27:06,830 --> 00:27:10,430 going on and it becomes this positive of not only are they supporting 563 00:27:10,430 --> 00:27:14,230 them, but they're like giving them all the tools and all the things 564 00:27:14,230 --> 00:27:15,310 necessary, right. 565 00:27:15,310 --> 00:27:20,190 To, to really grow and excel beyond just attending a meeting weekly. 566 00:27:20,430 --> 00:27:21,590 And so I think it's things like. 567 00:27:21,590 --> 00:27:25,510 That, that part, the, the leadership development piece, I think 568 00:27:25,510 --> 00:27:29,750 is so huge because that means, in my mind at least, it means that, 569 00:27:29,750 --> 00:27:32,670 you know, kind of the buy in and the ownership comes from within, 570 00:27:33,070 --> 00:27:39,510 not just kind of a, an imposed program by the church, which may 571 00:27:39,510 --> 00:27:42,510 be perceived that way or maybe, maybe that way. 572 00:27:42,510 --> 00:27:43,510 In some cases it is. 573 00:27:43,510 --> 00:27:49,080 But I, I like to think about how this sense of leadership now 574 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:53,520 can maybe lead opportunities for new pathways to continue to serve 575 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,680 the community, you know, new entry points, if you will. 576 00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:58,680 So how do you think that might work out? 577 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:03,120 What kind of, what's next for you and for Recovery Church and how 578 00:28:03,120 --> 00:28:06,640 it role plays in secular organizations like the one you work 579 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,040 for, Sparker Recovery. 580 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:09,080 What's next? 581 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,000 Or what are some pathways that can open. 582 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:12,120 Open up here for? 583 00:28:12,970 --> 00:28:15,450 Because we know that the addiction problem remains, right? 584 00:28:15,450 --> 00:28:16,090 Absolutely. 585 00:28:16,090 --> 00:28:17,210 Yeah, absolutely. 586 00:28:17,290 --> 00:28:18,650 So we know that remains. 587 00:28:18,650 --> 00:28:19,130 Yes. 588 00:28:19,370 --> 00:28:22,170 And some people are in denial about it, but it remains. 589 00:28:22,250 --> 00:28:25,930 So what are some ways that this, this partnership, this, this 590 00:28:26,170 --> 00:28:30,290 thing we're describing here can open up pathways for more and 591 00:28:30,290 --> 00:28:32,930 more people to be served and get, get healthier and therefore 592 00:28:32,930 --> 00:28:33,850 serve the greater good? 593 00:28:34,250 --> 00:28:37,890 Yeah, well, you know, I, again, I think we've established 594 00:28:37,890 --> 00:28:41,490 that structure, right, of, of the weekly meetings and different 595 00:28:41,490 --> 00:28:42,130 things like that. 596 00:28:42,130 --> 00:28:43,130 So that is there. 597 00:28:44,530 --> 00:28:48,890 So then, you know, one of the things I've looked at is, okay, what 598 00:28:48,890 --> 00:28:51,330 does like those external relationships look like. 599 00:28:51,330 --> 00:28:51,650 Right. 600 00:28:51,650 --> 00:28:53,610 Or like those, like, marketing opportunities. 601 00:28:53,610 --> 00:28:53,970 What. 602 00:28:53,970 --> 00:28:58,370 What are some other ways, either conventional or unconventional, 603 00:28:58,370 --> 00:29:02,930 that we can engage community members, community partners, to a. 604 00:29:02,930 --> 00:29:05,650 Get the word out about our programming. 605 00:29:05,650 --> 00:29:07,650 But then also, like, is there. 606 00:29:07,890 --> 00:29:09,930 Are there partners that need assistance? 607 00:29:09,930 --> 00:29:10,210 Right. 608 00:29:10,210 --> 00:29:14,390 And does Recovery Church become a, like an extension of. 609 00:29:14,870 --> 00:29:17,430 Of the church, like this Helping Hand or arm. 610 00:29:17,430 --> 00:29:17,830 Right. 611 00:29:18,070 --> 00:29:21,710 Heaven Earth that goes out and helps folks and things like that, 612 00:29:21,710 --> 00:29:24,990 which I know the church does a lot of, you know, outside, you know, 613 00:29:24,990 --> 00:29:27,949 community work and partnerships, but I think to be able 614 00:29:27,949 --> 00:29:31,870 to have like, that specific extension from Recovery Church and 615 00:29:31,870 --> 00:29:35,070 know, like, these are the folks that are, you know, that have 616 00:29:35,070 --> 00:29:37,950 been through addiction or in recovery and now they're here helping 617 00:29:37,950 --> 00:29:41,070 to shovel snow or rebuild after the tornadoes or whatever. 618 00:29:41,070 --> 00:29:42,870 It is some practical thing. 619 00:29:42,870 --> 00:29:43,590 Yeah, yeah. 620 00:29:43,590 --> 00:29:46,550 And, you know, that may even go to such as, you know, work. 621 00:29:47,110 --> 00:29:49,390 You talk about, you know, kind of marketing, get the positive word 622 00:29:49,390 --> 00:29:51,750 out and more, but may like working with employers. 623 00:29:51,750 --> 00:29:55,190 I know around here we got these huge, massive distribution 624 00:29:55,190 --> 00:29:56,230 facilities and what have you. 625 00:29:56,230 --> 00:29:59,310 And yes, I at least know at least one or two situations where 626 00:29:59,310 --> 00:30:01,830 employers have had issues with employees. 627 00:30:02,070 --> 00:30:02,550 Yes. 628 00:30:02,550 --> 00:30:04,630 You know, who had addiction issues and. 629 00:30:05,460 --> 00:30:08,140 And, you know, in order for productivity to happen, they would 630 00:30:08,140 --> 00:30:08,980 like to deal with that. 631 00:30:08,980 --> 00:30:09,620 Absolutely. 632 00:30:09,620 --> 00:30:13,540 Just one example of how this might expand into whole different 633 00:30:13,780 --> 00:30:14,500 realms here. 634 00:30:14,500 --> 00:30:17,780 And I think that's really a cool thing. 635 00:30:18,340 --> 00:30:20,859 Well, let me bring it around to this, Spencer, and kind of bring 636 00:30:20,859 --> 00:30:23,860 it around to, you know, this is the Heaven Earth Church podcast 637 00:30:24,020 --> 00:30:26,900 and part of the mission and ministry of the church history with 638 00:30:26,900 --> 00:30:30,340 partnerships and including these pillars about being a safe 639 00:30:30,580 --> 00:30:32,900 place and so on that we've already talked about. 640 00:30:33,140 --> 00:30:35,420 I want to make it kind of personal with you just for a second 641 00:30:35,420 --> 00:30:36,260 in the sense of. 642 00:30:37,060 --> 00:30:39,380 And I like to ask most people this. 643 00:30:39,460 --> 00:30:44,700 What is this the type of place that you would feel comfortable if 644 00:30:44,700 --> 00:30:47,580 there's somebody in your life, in your circle of friends or people 645 00:30:47,580 --> 00:30:50,100 that you associate with that is some issue. 646 00:30:50,180 --> 00:30:52,140 It didn't even have to be addiction. 647 00:30:52,140 --> 00:30:53,220 It could be something else. 648 00:30:53,220 --> 00:30:57,300 You know, losing your job or going through a divorce or death 649 00:30:57,300 --> 00:31:00,020 in the family, any, you know, any number of things that happen 650 00:31:00,020 --> 00:31:00,820 to people. 651 00:31:01,620 --> 00:31:04,940 Is this the type of place that you'd feel comfortable inviting them 652 00:31:04,940 --> 00:31:07,300 to say, this is a place that you might want to check out? 653 00:31:08,340 --> 00:31:09,460 Oh, absolutely. 654 00:31:09,620 --> 00:31:10,100 Yeah. 655 00:31:10,740 --> 00:31:11,620 You know, I. 656 00:31:11,620 --> 00:31:16,420 I started coming by myself in the beginning, you know, but I eventually 657 00:31:16,420 --> 00:31:18,180 brought my mother and my brother. 658 00:31:18,740 --> 00:31:20,740 You know, I've invited several different friends. 659 00:31:21,700 --> 00:31:24,560 You know, maybe most of those haven't had, like, some specific 660 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:28,560 issues or life struggles or Things that you've highlighted, but 661 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:32,200 certainly had that interest in seeking or finding kind of a new 662 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:32,920 church home. 663 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:33,240 Right. 664 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,680 You know, something that wasn't such like a. 665 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:37,600 What I call, like, the big box church. 666 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:38,000 Right. 667 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,520 You know, and so I think this offers Heaven and earth offers a 668 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,200 very much a unique experience that a lot of us, I think, especially 669 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,680 the millennial age, where, you know, we're kind of products of that 670 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,720 big box church, you know, wants to be a little bit smaller 671 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:53,840 and intimate and, you know, things like that. 672 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,920 So I am always trying to let folks know, you know, I. 673 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:02,200 I don't want to become what I say, the crazy lunatic, like, come 674 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:02,800 to my church. 675 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:03,520 I'll save you. 676 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:07,680 You know, the person that I may have, you know, looked down upon 677 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:08,400 a few years ago. 678 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,560 But I do want people to know that they are welcome. 679 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:15,080 And I'm always happy to join folks and sit next to with them in 680 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,520 a pew if they don't want to sit alone or if they want to ride. 681 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,840 Always happy to do that because it can be scary, you know, 682 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,680 even if you, you know, it was scary for me to show up at Ross's 683 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:26,960 house, I think I would have been less scared to show up to a 684 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:27,800 more traditional church. 685 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:29,720 But it's like when you're going to someone's house and meeting 686 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:30,680 in their living room. 687 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:31,000 Right. 688 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:32,280 You're gonna have to talk to people. 689 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:32,840 Right. 690 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,360 There's no, like, hiding behind the pew or anything like that. 691 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,480 So, yes, all of that to say I. 692 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:44,840 I do feel like this place is special and safe and can really offer, 693 00:32:45,620 --> 00:32:48,180 you know, some unique experiences, but ultimately some 694 00:32:48,180 --> 00:32:52,620 spiritual healing and growth for anyone that's seeking it, regardless 695 00:32:52,620 --> 00:32:53,980 of what their circumstances are. 696 00:32:53,980 --> 00:32:54,540 Well, having. 697 00:32:54,540 --> 00:32:55,380 And just to take that. 698 00:32:55,380 --> 00:32:56,980 That's sort of your experience now. 699 00:32:56,980 --> 00:32:59,060 Now I kind of want you to put yourself in that role of. 700 00:32:59,060 --> 00:33:02,820 Let's just say that there's a person who's watching our conversation 701 00:33:02,820 --> 00:33:04,660 here today, and. 702 00:33:05,620 --> 00:33:09,220 And they say, okay, that sounds good, man, and I resonate 703 00:33:09,220 --> 00:33:14,840 with your story, but, you know, I'm really a mess, you know, 704 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:16,360 with addiction or other things like this. 705 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,320 So what would be your kind of a personal invitation you might have, 706 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:23,440 if you were sharing with that person here that how you personally 707 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,120 might be involved or others here might be involved in order to 708 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:27,400 be helpful to them. 709 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:28,360 That person. 710 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:29,920 Yeah. 711 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,160 I mean, so you're talking about, like, you know, they're really 712 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,440 struggling with their substance use, and maybe that needs 713 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:36,120 to be addressed. 714 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:37,720 Let's just go there because that's your experience. 715 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:39,720 Yeah, I mean, you know, I. 716 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,320 I have certainly been There where I have too been a. 717 00:33:43,940 --> 00:33:45,540 And some days still aren't the greatest. 718 00:33:45,540 --> 00:33:45,740 Right. 719 00:33:45,740 --> 00:33:46,340 We're all human. 720 00:33:46,500 --> 00:33:46,900 Right. 721 00:33:47,220 --> 00:33:52,220 And so I often tell folks that, you know, if, if that's where 722 00:33:52,220 --> 00:33:55,260 they're at and they're interested in even just investigating 723 00:33:55,260 --> 00:33:56,580 what options are out there. 724 00:33:56,900 --> 00:34:01,500 TreatmentAtlas.org is a state ran, you know, website where you 725 00:34:01,500 --> 00:34:04,300 can put in what substances you're struggling with, your zip 726 00:34:04,300 --> 00:34:04,740 code. 727 00:34:05,700 --> 00:34:09,300 It has a self kind of as a self guided questionnaire that helps 728 00:34:09,300 --> 00:34:12,090 kind of lead folks to the appropriate avenue. 729 00:34:12,650 --> 00:34:14,610 And it's all of course anonymous. 730 00:34:14,610 --> 00:34:15,930 You can do it on your phone or online. 731 00:34:15,930 --> 00:34:19,690 But this kind of allows folks to engage in treatment without having 732 00:34:19,690 --> 00:34:23,370 to maybe talk to another human because that can be really scary 733 00:34:23,370 --> 00:34:24,130 in that moment. 734 00:34:24,130 --> 00:34:24,490 Right. 735 00:34:25,210 --> 00:34:28,490 But if you do want help and you do want guidance, you can always 736 00:34:28,490 --> 00:34:29,690 reach out to myself. 737 00:34:30,490 --> 00:34:34,730 Indiana 211, you know, staff's recovery coaches. 738 00:34:35,130 --> 00:34:39,070 So that often allows for folks to be able to talk to a human, someone 739 00:34:39,070 --> 00:34:43,550 in recovery and allows them to, you know, walk with them even 740 00:34:43,550 --> 00:34:46,630 if it's telephonically through this journey and gets plugged in. 741 00:34:46,630 --> 00:34:49,470 And then there's also professional organizations like your 742 00:34:49,470 --> 00:34:52,950 organization you work for and once you share share with our, with 743 00:34:52,950 --> 00:34:55,430 our folks that the website or how people can get a hold of that 744 00:34:55,430 --> 00:34:56,990 if they want to go that route. 745 00:34:56,990 --> 00:34:58,150 Yeah, no, absolutely. 746 00:34:58,150 --> 00:35:04,710 So sparkrecovery.com is the best way to engage with Spark Recovery. 747 00:35:05,750 --> 00:35:10,060 And so we are again providing outpatient therapy and treatment 748 00:35:10,060 --> 00:35:12,820 for folks but more specific to Johnson County. 749 00:35:12,820 --> 00:35:15,460 I am also the board president for a recovery coalition. 750 00:35:15,940 --> 00:35:21,380 So if you go to upstreamprevention.org Rise R I S 751 00:35:21,380 --> 00:35:27,420 E you can go there to see our list of activities and events and 752 00:35:27,420 --> 00:35:31,460 get plugged into other more local like Johnson county specific 753 00:35:31,460 --> 00:35:31,900 resources. 754 00:35:31,900 --> 00:35:32,340 Yeah. 755 00:35:32,500 --> 00:35:35,780 Then if people want to somehow get connected with Recovery Church, 756 00:35:36,180 --> 00:35:39,100 just kind of tell folks how that actually works, what time it 757 00:35:39,100 --> 00:35:41,400 is, what would someone experience if they're going to come 758 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,560 to want to find out more about Recovery church here at Governor 759 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:44,880 Church. 760 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:49,200 So as of right now it's every Wednesday 6:30 to 8. 761 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,120 So it's here at Heaven Earth Church. 762 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:55,600 I do not know the address but I'm sure we'll have that posted in 763 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,240 the link here for Heaven Earth Church just across the street from 764 00:35:58,800 --> 00:35:59,920 Whiteland High School. 765 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,840 But like I said, every Wednesday just you walk in through 766 00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:05,600 the main, you know, kind of doors. 767 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:10,040 Typically we're meeting in the sanctuary and each week the format 768 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:10,880 somewhat changes. 769 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,280 Sometimes there might be a speaker, there might be more of a 770 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:16,160 discussion or you know, that Somewhat varies, but overall the 771 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:20,040 format typically is kind of a welcome period with a meal. 772 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:25,160 They do provide a meal each week, which is nice. 773 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:29,480 And then they roll into whether it's again the speaker or 774 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:30,200 what have you. 775 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:35,320 And there's always, you know, Ross or the other Recovery Church 776 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:36,200 leaders here. 777 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,710 So always looking for like those new faces or unfamiliar face 778 00:36:39,940 --> 00:36:43,020 so where we can make folks feel comfortable and engaged and 779 00:36:43,020 --> 00:36:43,380 welcome. 780 00:36:43,380 --> 00:36:46,980 So that's a very important thing to help people who are to feel 781 00:36:46,980 --> 00:36:47,420 welcome. 782 00:36:47,420 --> 00:36:48,100 Absolutely. 783 00:36:48,100 --> 00:36:52,180 And not, you know, so much can be so intimidating and that this 784 00:36:52,180 --> 00:36:52,660 type of thing. 785 00:36:52,660 --> 00:36:53,300 So that's. 786 00:36:53,460 --> 00:36:54,220 Well, that's wonderful. 787 00:36:54,220 --> 00:36:54,980 I just leave it with this. 788 00:36:54,980 --> 00:36:57,620 Anything else that you just want to share here, Spencer? 789 00:36:57,700 --> 00:36:58,820 That I want to share. 790 00:36:58,900 --> 00:37:02,620 You know, I typically like to end these things off with that recovery 791 00:37:02,620 --> 00:37:04,340 is possible and I am not special. 792 00:37:05,380 --> 00:37:07,380 You know, just reach out and do the work. 793 00:37:08,300 --> 00:37:10,460 Trust God and clean house, as they say. 794 00:37:11,500 --> 00:37:13,260 Trust God and clean. 795 00:37:13,260 --> 00:37:13,740 Yes. 796 00:37:13,740 --> 00:37:14,620 I love that. 797 00:37:15,020 --> 00:37:19,180 Well, we certainly thank you for being with us here today. 798 00:37:19,180 --> 00:37:23,260 Our guest here today on the Heaven and Earth Church podcast, 799 00:37:23,339 --> 00:37:24,540 Spencer Metcalf. 800 00:37:24,540 --> 00:37:28,460 He's really involved with the Wednesday night Recovery Church and 801 00:37:28,460 --> 00:37:31,460 is on the staff@sparkrecovery.com and we'll 802 00:37:31,460 --> 00:37:34,280 put all the connections to that and our show notes at Heaven. 803 00:37:35,870 --> 00:37:37,070 Spencer, thanks for being our guest today. 804 00:37:37,230 --> 00:37:38,030 Thank you so much. 805 00:37:38,510 --> 00:37:42,230 Brad Miller, back with you to wrap up this podcast episode with 806 00:37:42,230 --> 00:37:43,190 Spencer Metcalf. 807 00:37:43,190 --> 00:37:44,030 I found it fascinating. 808 00:37:44,030 --> 00:37:45,070 I hope that you did too. 809 00:37:45,310 --> 00:37:47,870 Then once you know, you'll find all the links to everything 810 00:37:47,870 --> 00:37:50,110 that Spencer was talking about in our show notes. 811 00:37:50,430 --> 00:37:56,790 But you can always find at our website, heavenearthchurch.org all 812 00:37:56,790 --> 00:37:57,910 the podcast directories. 813 00:37:57,910 --> 00:38:03,960 You can also find this at YouTube HeavenEarth Church. 814 00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:07,520 And a reminder, your next opportunity to worship at Heaven 815 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:13,480 Earth Church is this Sunday morning at 9:30am at the main campus 816 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:14,880 at 309 E. 817 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:15,240 Main St. 818 00:38:15,240 --> 00:38:20,200 In Whiteland and Recovery Church, 6:30pm every Wednesday night 819 00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:21,000 at the campus. 820 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:25,000 You can always find us at our website, heavenearthchurch. 821 00:38:26,850 --> 00:38:29,090 We want to thank you for spending time with us today. 822 00:38:29,330 --> 00:38:32,610 My name is Ross Stackhouse, the pastor to Heaven Earth Church. 823 00:38:33,010 --> 00:38:36,330 And you may think out there that your story is over, but in fact, 824 00:38:36,330 --> 00:38:39,490 your faith story may just be beginning. 825 00:38:39,730 --> 00:38:42,570 If you want more information about our church or you're interested 826 00:38:42,570 --> 00:38:46,610 in the next step, you can go to heavenorthchurch.org Otherwise, 827 00:38:46,610 --> 00:38:49,850 we look forward to being with you next time at the Heaven Earth 828 00:38:49,850 --> 00:38:50,770 Church podcast.