1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,599 Stress is a response to a situation, not the situation itself. 2 00:00:03,599 --> 00:00:07,110 So if you are stressed out, that's your mind playing out a story that 3 00:00:07,110 --> 00:00:10,650 you are choosing to watch, like a scary film or a tense drama. 4 00:00:11,253 --> 00:00:14,400 At least that's how this week's guest approaches stress. 5 00:00:14,738 --> 00:00:18,938 This week, Gilles P Croft makes his fifth appearance on You Are Not a Frog to talk 6 00:00:18,938 --> 00:00:23,648 about the mind and the way it shapes the way we respond in all sorts of situations. 7 00:00:23,725 --> 00:00:27,265 Now, no one likes being told that our experiences are all in the mind, 8 00:00:27,535 --> 00:00:30,629 especially when we're working in a very strained and stress system and 9 00:00:30,629 --> 00:00:33,419 we're trying to care for our patients whilst do the best for our colleagues 10 00:00:33,419 --> 00:00:34,979 and balance our own wellbeing. 11 00:00:34,979 --> 00:00:38,309 So I really wanted to push Giles on some of the practical 12 00:00:38,309 --> 00:00:40,169 aspects of his point of view. 13 00:00:40,589 --> 00:00:43,889 And if you've heard our other episodes with John C Parkin, you'll 14 00:00:43,889 --> 00:00:47,639 know that I'm a big fan of saying f it in stressful situations. 15 00:00:47,799 --> 00:00:51,059 But Giles takes a different tack, and invites us to see that stress 16 00:00:51,119 --> 00:00:54,296 isn't something we experience from the outside world, but it's 17 00:00:54,296 --> 00:00:56,486 a reaction to our own thinking. 18 00:00:56,825 --> 00:00:59,935 Now, Giles is a former surgeon and he takes a very specific 19 00:00:59,935 --> 00:01:01,645 view on how to manage stress. 20 00:01:01,795 --> 00:01:05,605 One that not everybody will agree with, but it's definitely worth considering. 21 00:01:05,896 --> 00:01:09,546 So listen to find out if you agree with him or if you don't, and email 22 00:01:09,546 --> 00:01:11,956 me at hello@youarenotafrog.com. 23 00:01:12,207 --> 00:01:15,477 And let me know what landed with you and what didn't. 24 00:01:15,807 --> 00:01:19,407 So now take a few moments for yourself and enjoy my conversation 25 00:01:19,587 --> 00:01:21,627 with Dr. Giles P Croft. 26 00:01:24,156 --> 00:01:28,206 If you're in a high stress, high stakes, still blank medicine, and you're feeling 27 00:01:28,206 --> 00:01:33,661 stressed or overwhelmed, burning out or getting out are not your only options. 28 00:01:33,892 --> 00:01:37,822 I'm Dr. Rachel Morris, and welcome to You Are Not a Frog. 29 00:01:41,273 --> 00:01:42,598 I'm Giles P Croft. 30 00:01:42,878 --> 00:01:49,135 I'm a former NHS doctor, who now, um, is a writer, a speaker, and, 31 00:01:49,201 --> 00:01:51,781 a coach and workshop facilitator. 32 00:01:52,003 --> 00:01:53,923 it is wonderful to have you back again on the podcast, Giles. 33 00:01:53,923 --> 00:01:55,392 I mean, how many times have you been on? 34 00:01:55,539 --> 00:01:56,324 Is number five. 35 00:01:56,324 --> 00:01:57,324 Have I got the record yet? 36 00:01:57,345 --> 00:01:57,645 Ooh. 37 00:01:57,705 --> 00:01:58,215 I don't know. 38 00:01:58,215 --> 00:01:59,325 You may have, you're, you're up there. 39 00:01:59,565 --> 00:02:00,765 You're definitely up there. 40 00:02:01,155 --> 00:02:06,125 And Giles, it's, I wanted to get you back, several reasons, but one of 41 00:02:06,125 --> 00:02:10,595 the reasons is when we're talking to people about, you know, how to have a 42 00:02:10,595 --> 00:02:14,495 job in which they thrive, how to work happier, how to beat burnout, there 43 00:02:14,495 --> 00:02:16,555 are plenty of objections that come up. 44 00:02:16,645 --> 00:02:19,585 You know, if I don't do it, who else will being, being one of them. 45 00:02:19,585 --> 00:02:20,815 And we'll get to those later. 46 00:02:21,435 --> 00:02:24,885 And I think in a lot of these issues of resilience and thriving 47 00:02:24,885 --> 00:02:27,195 at work, it's really good to look at things from different 48 00:02:27,195 --> 00:02:28,965 viewpoints and different aspects. 49 00:02:29,292 --> 00:02:33,755 So firstly, why do you think your viewpoint is, is different 50 00:02:33,755 --> 00:02:35,285 from many other people's? 51 00:02:35,566 --> 00:02:42,326 Well, for me, the, biggest leverage point going is to better understand the nature 52 00:02:42,326 --> 00:02:43,706 of the experience that we're having. 53 00:02:43,706 --> 00:02:47,936 Because when it all boils down to it, an experience is all we get. 54 00:02:47,996 --> 00:02:51,356 You are like moment to moment, an experience like you and I are having 55 00:02:51,656 --> 00:02:53,546 an experience of this podcast. 56 00:02:53,910 --> 00:02:56,913 And to really have a better understanding of. 57 00:02:57,582 --> 00:03:01,152 How that experience is put together means that we can really, 58 00:03:01,302 --> 00:03:02,682 we can really work with it. 59 00:03:02,772 --> 00:03:05,352 We can, we don't, we don't have to find it. 60 00:03:05,862 --> 00:03:10,392 I've been thinking quite a lot recently about the old Buddhist, I think sort 61 00:03:10,392 --> 00:03:14,502 of, um, saying, or proverb is not really a proverb, just the, the analogy of 62 00:03:14,502 --> 00:03:17,812 taking that second arrow about like something happens, which is bad enough. 63 00:03:17,902 --> 00:03:20,632 Say you, I've got a can of coke next to me, spill a can of coke all over my lap. 64 00:03:20,662 --> 00:03:21,022 Right? 65 00:03:21,022 --> 00:03:21,262 Okay. 66 00:03:21,262 --> 00:03:22,522 So that, that's bad enough in itself. 67 00:03:22,522 --> 00:03:23,512 I'm wet and I'm cold. 68 00:03:23,932 --> 00:03:27,979 But then the second arrow would be like getting really upset about being wet and 69 00:03:27,979 --> 00:03:32,089 cold and, you know, being really cross about the fact that I've stained my nice 70 00:03:32,089 --> 00:03:33,769 white t-shirt and all that sort of thing. 71 00:03:33,769 --> 00:03:37,864 So we are adding layers of suffering onto what's already happening, 72 00:03:38,284 --> 00:03:40,474 um, and creating more suffering. 73 00:03:40,504 --> 00:03:42,814 And I think me and you differ a little bit. 74 00:03:42,814 --> 00:03:46,313 I think your, your view is that actually if, and I'm quoting you and 75 00:03:46,313 --> 00:03:49,523 I'm probably gonna get this wrong, so please correct me that actually you 76 00:03:49,523 --> 00:03:54,207 can get rid of suffering pretty much completely by changing your experience 77 00:03:54,207 --> 00:03:58,797 of it and just actually not adding that second arrow, that second layer onto it. 78 00:03:59,275 --> 00:04:04,142 Yeah, it's, it's, again, it's, it's, it's seeing clearly the way that things are. 79 00:04:04,306 --> 00:04:09,137 It, it, it's seeing that yeah, things are as they are, there's always loads 80 00:04:09,137 --> 00:04:10,607 of stuff happening that we don't want. 81 00:04:10,967 --> 00:04:16,247 And, and the, the reason is, is that, that it's the mind that's creating 82 00:04:16,247 --> 00:04:17,807 the story about what it wants. 83 00:04:17,927 --> 00:04:24,017 It's the mind very, very naturally and, uh, and, you know, reasonably not 84 00:04:24,017 --> 00:04:29,267 expecting Coke to be on your top and in your lap, but you know, there cold. 85 00:04:29,417 --> 00:04:31,637 But you might, it might be a bit more subtle than that. 86 00:04:31,697 --> 00:04:33,917 You might pick it up and it might not be ice cold. 87 00:04:34,213 --> 00:04:38,628 And I might be, ah, you know, there's just that little moment of reality, not 88 00:04:38,628 --> 00:04:43,368 meeting the mind's expectations of like, oh, I was really, I was really hoping this 89 00:04:43,368 --> 00:04:45,528 might be this, this might be ice cold. 90 00:04:45,558 --> 00:04:51,446 And, um, it, it's, to really see that we've got this constant, uh, narration 91 00:04:51,446 --> 00:04:57,116 from the mind and it's, it's meeting reality in all of these different moments, 92 00:04:57,116 --> 00:04:59,366 in all of these di different situations. 93 00:04:59,396 --> 00:05:04,126 And 99 times out of a hundred, it's not gonna get what it wants. 94 00:05:04,666 --> 00:05:08,146 You, you know, it's not, things aren't gonna turn out the way 95 00:05:08,146 --> 00:05:10,696 that the mind, the mind wants. 96 00:05:10,696 --> 00:05:14,746 The way that the mind wants things is all based on our conditioning and what 97 00:05:14,746 --> 00:05:18,616 we've learned and what we've consumed in the media and, you know, the values that 98 00:05:18,616 --> 00:05:20,416 we've learned over time and everything. 99 00:05:21,526 --> 00:05:24,616 And, uh, chances are that those values aren't gonna be met. 100 00:05:25,396 --> 00:05:29,576 Um, and when they are met, it, it feels like, okay, well things 101 00:05:29,576 --> 00:05:31,316 are going my way, i'm in control. 102 00:05:31,604 --> 00:05:35,654 And I suppose I would invite viewers to, um, to consider, well, what, 103 00:05:35,714 --> 00:05:37,514 what if that wasn't the case? 104 00:05:38,084 --> 00:05:43,444 What if it was more a case of the mind's expectations have been met in 105 00:05:43,444 --> 00:05:49,984 this instance, therefore it stopped complaining for a little bit, you know, 106 00:05:50,254 --> 00:05:52,654 it stopped making a big deal about stuff. 107 00:05:53,164 --> 00:05:59,314 And when the mind stops complaining and it stops making a big deal about stuff, then 108 00:05:59,524 --> 00:06:05,044 we have an experience that's a a little bit closer to reality, shall we say? 109 00:06:05,044 --> 00:06:07,984 We're, we're, we're able to see things a bit more clearly. 110 00:06:08,704 --> 00:06:12,334 We are, we're able to be a bit more present to the actual situation. 111 00:06:12,634 --> 00:06:17,044 We're able to be a bit more, have more of an experience of being connected 112 00:06:17,074 --> 00:06:21,229 to life itself and all of all the, all the good things that it has to offer. 113 00:06:22,127 --> 00:06:24,679 That is the thing, isn't it about stress? 114 00:06:24,679 --> 00:06:29,509 I've heard that a a, a stress equation or, or a happiness equation actually is 115 00:06:29,929 --> 00:06:32,509 equals sort of reality minus expectations. 116 00:06:32,719 --> 00:06:37,279 So if your expectations are massive about this should happen and the realities it 117 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:42,259 doesn't, or I think stress, so that's happiness is reality minus expectations. 118 00:06:42,589 --> 00:06:46,369 Um, stress is resources minus demands. 119 00:06:46,489 --> 00:06:49,939 So I've got enough resources to meet this, oh, the demands are fine. 120 00:06:50,089 --> 00:06:50,719 I'm not stressed. 121 00:06:50,779 --> 00:06:55,203 Oh, the demands suddenly e exceed the resources, i'm suddenly feeling stressed. 122 00:06:56,013 --> 00:07:02,283 And a lot of us focus on trying to change, I guess the reality actually, I've gotta 123 00:07:02,283 --> 00:07:08,253 change the reality or I've got to change the, um, the demands rather than actually 124 00:07:08,253 --> 00:07:12,783 changing what our expectations are or changing our view of the expectations. 125 00:07:12,783 --> 00:07:14,283 Would, would that solve things? 126 00:07:14,343 --> 00:07:18,213 Yeah, well that, and that, you know, that that's difficult in the NHS, isn't it? 127 00:07:18,213 --> 00:07:22,629 Because, we, we've all butted up against this, uh, and it's the, 128 00:07:22,959 --> 00:07:25,959 it's the source of, uh, what they call moral injury, isn't it? 129 00:07:25,959 --> 00:07:30,069 Is that, you know, we have a, we have an expectation. 130 00:07:30,129 --> 00:07:32,259 We, you know, we train for years. 131 00:07:32,259 --> 00:07:36,279 We, we come through medical school, we learn all this stuff in textbooks. 132 00:07:36,609 --> 00:07:39,399 We, we, we want to do our best, we want to help. 133 00:07:39,459 --> 00:07:43,719 And then the reality of the situation is that the whole system's a bit 134 00:07:43,719 --> 00:07:48,429 broken and it's falling apart and it's under resourced and, and, and, and 135 00:07:48,429 --> 00:07:50,409 everyone's, everyone's struggling. 136 00:07:51,189 --> 00:07:56,449 And so, um, it, you know, it gets to a point where, to a degree, you are 137 00:07:56,449 --> 00:08:03,259 able to, to, depending on your level of seniority, change the environment 138 00:08:03,934 --> 00:08:08,944 a bit, but then it gets to a point where you can't, and, and that's where, 139 00:08:08,974 --> 00:08:10,234 that's where it's breaking point. 140 00:08:10,234 --> 00:08:13,501 And I mean, I like the, the, the first definition, what 141 00:08:13,501 --> 00:08:14,851 was it you said it was, it. 142 00:08:14,851 --> 00:08:17,486 Happiness is reality minus expectations. 143 00:08:17,653 --> 00:08:18,043 Yeah. 144 00:08:18,253 --> 00:08:22,530 You, you know, to, to see things clearly is to see that, okay, now my 145 00:08:22,530 --> 00:08:26,910 expectations here are absolutely, you know, they're, they're rock solid. 146 00:08:27,030 --> 00:08:29,280 They're that this, they're, that this patient should 147 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:30,690 get the best care available. 148 00:08:30,783 --> 00:08:32,583 You know, they're the, this patient should live. 149 00:08:32,763 --> 00:08:37,358 They're the, this patient shouldn't be sat in pain a chair as opposed 150 00:08:37,358 --> 00:08:40,958 to, you know, admitted to ward ,getting the treatment that they need. 151 00:08:41,378 --> 00:08:44,678 Those are perfectly reasonable expectations. 152 00:08:45,148 --> 00:08:50,518 But to see that the, the, the suffering that, that we experience 153 00:08:50,553 --> 00:08:56,360 does actually come from that mismatch between expectations and reality. 154 00:08:56,810 --> 00:09:00,586 And I'm sure that many of you listeners will have had the experience of, you 155 00:09:00,586 --> 00:09:05,596 know, depending on the, the frame of mind that they're in, when, when they 156 00:09:05,596 --> 00:09:10,546 experience a situation like that, that they'll either be incredibly 157 00:09:10,546 --> 00:09:16,726 disheartened or, or very angry or, you know, filling in forms and writing 158 00:09:16,726 --> 00:09:18,796 letters and making phone calls and stuff. 159 00:09:18,916 --> 00:09:24,106 Or being like really, really feeling really connected to their patients 160 00:09:24,166 --> 00:09:29,506 and, uh, and feeling great empathy for their situation and saying, look, 161 00:09:29,566 --> 00:09:32,416 I know, I know this, this sucks. 162 00:09:32,476 --> 00:09:35,416 You know, this isn't the best that we can be doing for you. 163 00:09:35,806 --> 00:09:39,346 However, this is what we've got to deal with at the moment, okay? 164 00:09:39,376 --> 00:09:41,086 This is, this is the best that we've got. 165 00:09:41,366 --> 00:09:43,406 Internally it's like, well, this isn't my problem. 166 00:09:43,406 --> 00:09:44,516 This is the system here. 167 00:09:45,146 --> 00:09:47,066 This is the system that's broken, not me. 168 00:09:47,666 --> 00:09:52,766 And, and absolutely doing the best that we can in, in, in that moment. 169 00:09:52,826 --> 00:09:57,670 Because to see that, it doesn't help to be caught up in the stories. 170 00:09:57,670 --> 00:10:02,020 It doesn't help to be caught up in the expectations if we can do something 171 00:10:02,020 --> 00:10:04,120 about it, sure, that's brilliant. 172 00:10:04,510 --> 00:10:09,070 But as we're finding more and more in the NHS, we can't do anything about a 173 00:10:09,070 --> 00:10:14,350 lot of these things, that that doesn't automatically mean that there has to be 174 00:10:14,740 --> 00:10:17,650 an experience of suffering and stress. 175 00:10:18,021 --> 00:10:21,621 It's interesting that you've mentioned moral injury because that, uh, we had 176 00:10:21,621 --> 00:10:25,431 Dr. Paula Redmond on the podcast a few weeks ago talking about one of the, 177 00:10:25,431 --> 00:10:26,721 you know, the three different types. 178 00:10:26,871 --> 00:10:29,091 Actually, she talks about five different types of burnout, and one 179 00:10:29,091 --> 00:10:31,911 of them is to do with moral injury. 180 00:10:32,271 --> 00:10:36,561 So it is not an overwhelm type burnout, it's a real sort of compassion fatigue 181 00:10:36,561 --> 00:10:38,631 or empathetic burnout type of thing. 182 00:10:39,189 --> 00:10:43,059 Would you then say that one of the, the cures for that is just 183 00:10:43,059 --> 00:10:48,358 learning to, to detach and see it as just a, the mind's expectation? 184 00:10:48,975 --> 00:10:52,635 I don't know Rachel, like, you know, I often have little kind of like, 185 00:10:52,635 --> 00:10:56,925 thought exercises of, well, what, what, what would Giles of 2025 be like in 186 00:10:56,925 --> 00:11:01,145 a, the old environment that I used to be in when I, when I was in surgery? 187 00:11:01,485 --> 00:11:05,955 But yeah, I think just to, to have a knowledge of self, to have an, to have 188 00:11:05,970 --> 00:11:10,815 a, a, a real understanding of what it is we're up against moment to moment. 189 00:11:10,815 --> 00:11:14,145 We're, we are not up against the NHS, we are not up against patients, 190 00:11:14,145 --> 00:11:15,885 we are not up against colleagues. 191 00:11:16,305 --> 00:11:19,575 We're, we're up against our mind essentially. 192 00:11:19,635 --> 00:11:23,295 We're up against the, the image of, of that that is 193 00:11:23,295 --> 00:11:25,815 being created moment to moment. 194 00:11:26,175 --> 00:11:31,036 And just having an appreciation of that gives us that little 195 00:11:31,036 --> 00:11:33,676 bit of, of, of breathing space. 196 00:11:33,826 --> 00:11:36,646 It gives us that, it, it, it allows us to get a little bit 197 00:11:36,646 --> 00:11:38,236 of distance from the stories. 198 00:11:38,386 --> 00:11:42,496 I mean, I think that, um, that, like my fa I'm sure I've jotted this one 199 00:11:42,496 --> 00:11:46,696 out before Rachel, but my favorite quote on stress comes from, comes 200 00:11:46,696 --> 00:11:50,716 from Richard Carlson and, and author of, um, Don't Sweat the Small Stuff. 201 00:11:51,126 --> 00:11:55,490 And he said, your, the, your experience to stress will be exactly the 202 00:11:55,490 --> 00:11:57,680 amount of your tolerance to stress. 203 00:11:57,901 --> 00:12:00,991 So we all think that it's important to, well, if I could just 204 00:12:00,991 --> 00:12:02,941 tolerate more stress, I'd be okay. 205 00:12:02,941 --> 00:12:07,141 But, but almost by definition, the amount of stress that we can tolerate 206 00:12:07,201 --> 00:12:09,091 is the amount that we will experience. 207 00:12:09,151 --> 00:12:12,421 I have an incredibly low tolerance for stress these days. 208 00:12:12,601 --> 00:12:18,421 If I, I think stress is such a, such a helpful, um, indicator of when I've got 209 00:12:18,421 --> 00:12:22,531 caught up in those expectations, when I've got caught up in those stories 210 00:12:22,711 --> 00:12:24,991 when I'm not seeing life clearly. 211 00:12:25,265 --> 00:12:27,035 It's a, it is a really helpful reminder. 212 00:12:27,035 --> 00:12:29,458 It's like, oh, you know, for a minute. 213 00:12:29,458 --> 00:12:34,438 Then, you know, I thought, I thought that, that my, my feelings were coming 214 00:12:34,438 --> 00:12:39,606 from, from this environment that I'm in, and, and they're not, it's, it's coming 215 00:12:39,606 --> 00:12:44,166 from this, this thought created image that's being created moment to moment, 216 00:12:44,728 --> 00:12:48,358 and that, that just gives us a bit of breathing space, that allows us to, to, 217 00:12:48,358 --> 00:12:53,158 to let go of the stories, to let go of the expectations a little bit and, and, 218 00:12:53,158 --> 00:12:55,618 you know, see, see things with clarity. 219 00:12:56,068 --> 00:12:56,818 How they are. 220 00:12:56,818 --> 00:12:58,288 Right, what's my next step? 221 00:12:58,348 --> 00:13:01,648 What's the one, what's my next physical action I can take here? 222 00:13:01,768 --> 00:13:04,365 You know, it's, it's very practical. 223 00:13:04,425 --> 00:13:05,115 It's very practical. 224 00:13:05,115 --> 00:13:07,065 Is there anything I can do in this situation? 225 00:13:07,065 --> 00:13:07,545 No. 226 00:13:07,635 --> 00:13:08,445 Okay, then. 227 00:13:08,651 --> 00:13:11,741 So you are saying that's a very interesting quote about stress, 228 00:13:11,741 --> 00:13:14,291 that you will experience the amount of stress that you're prepared to 229 00:13:14,291 --> 00:13:17,891 tolerate, and you are saying, well, you are not prepared to tolerate stress. 230 00:13:17,891 --> 00:13:22,137 Therefore, when a stressful event happens, what do you do? 231 00:13:22,167 --> 00:13:22,917 What do you do? 232 00:13:22,917 --> 00:13:23,037 Do 233 00:13:23,127 --> 00:13:26,217 Well, I, it, it, it's understanding that there's no such thing 234 00:13:26,217 --> 00:13:30,987 as a stressful event, Rachel, like, events don't hold stress 235 00:13:31,398 --> 00:13:37,108 it's like, for instance, if you, if you were to, go to the cinema and watch 236 00:13:37,288 --> 00:13:42,091 a film that was, Let's say it was a really scary film and you felt really, 237 00:13:42,091 --> 00:13:43,831 really scared when you were watching it. 238 00:13:44,532 --> 00:13:48,912 Now if you slow down a little bit and you examine what's actually going on here, you 239 00:13:48,912 --> 00:13:51,582 know how we actually experience a film. 240 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:57,955 A, a, a film is no more than some dancing dots of light on a plain 241 00:13:57,955 --> 00:14:00,235 white background that we call pixels. 242 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:02,719 And the visual system picks those up. 243 00:14:02,979 --> 00:14:08,949 And it's also some, some sound, which is, which is, is variations in air 244 00:14:08,949 --> 00:14:11,889 pressure coming out of the speakers that we can't see in the cinema. 245 00:14:12,273 --> 00:14:15,813 And, um, for other things there's also, you know, there's a, there's a 246 00:14:15,813 --> 00:14:19,293 sensation to, to, to an experience. 247 00:14:19,293 --> 00:14:22,293 There's a, you know, there's, you might be able to feel the chair that you are in or 248 00:14:22,293 --> 00:14:23,973 something, or feel, feel the temperature. 249 00:14:24,453 --> 00:14:27,134 And all, all of that data, that's all coming in. 250 00:14:27,380 --> 00:14:30,740 The data that comes into our eyes comes in as a different speed to 251 00:14:30,740 --> 00:14:32,450 the data that comes into our ears. 252 00:14:32,450 --> 00:14:35,990 And, and like nerve peripheral, nerve conduction's really slow 253 00:14:35,990 --> 00:14:37,250 in comparison to everything else. 254 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:43,045 But, that's all created within, into an experience. 255 00:14:43,404 --> 00:14:46,764 So the, the film itself isn't scary. 256 00:14:47,847 --> 00:14:53,307 Just like a situation itself isn't stressful, which is why, you know, 257 00:14:53,397 --> 00:14:57,297 two people can be in exactly the same situation and one of them doesn't 258 00:14:57,297 --> 00:15:00,027 seem to be bothered by it and the other one is profoundly stressed by. 259 00:15:00,027 --> 00:15:03,957 It's because stress isn't held within situations. 260 00:15:04,497 --> 00:15:09,881 Life doesn't inherently contain meaning, by, you know, by definition. 261 00:15:10,147 --> 00:15:16,906 It just is, and it's, it's us having this human experience that's cooking up this 262 00:15:17,086 --> 00:15:22,726 perceptual experience within, and it's all mixed in with those expectations and 263 00:15:22,726 --> 00:15:27,884 our understanding and our learning and our upbringing and all that kind of stuff to 264 00:15:27,991 --> 00:15:31,711 present us with what looks like reality. 265 00:15:31,990 --> 00:15:36,520 And again, I would say, you know, the, the, the, the greatest leverage that 266 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:40,660 we get in all of these kind of like downstream situations like, you know, 267 00:15:40,660 --> 00:15:45,820 difficult situations at work and scary films and stuff, and it, it is to really 268 00:15:45,820 --> 00:15:47,800 understand what's going on upstream. 269 00:15:48,430 --> 00:15:51,910 It's like, oh, this experience that I'm having is real, sure it's real. 270 00:15:51,940 --> 00:15:55,000 Look, I can feel the, I can feel my pulse racing. 271 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:58,810 I can, I can feel the, uh, feel the adrenaline of this situation. 272 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:01,270 I can feel the way that my body's responding to it. 273 00:16:01,639 --> 00:16:02,599 But it's not true. 274 00:16:03,098 --> 00:16:04,658 It's real, but it's not true. 275 00:16:05,138 --> 00:16:09,428 It's a, it's a creation of the mind, like by definition at the level of 276 00:16:09,428 --> 00:16:11,708 principle, it's a creation of the mind. 277 00:16:11,738 --> 00:16:16,328 We're all kinda like walking around in these, these little separate, apparently 278 00:16:16,328 --> 00:16:19,418 separate realities, you know, having our own little experience of things. 279 00:16:19,468 --> 00:16:23,338 Which is why you can go to the cinema with your partner and you can think it's the 280 00:16:23,338 --> 00:16:26,278 most fun, exciting film you've ever seen. 281 00:16:26,278 --> 00:16:28,911 And they're like, they're, and they're asleep next to you. 282 00:16:28,911 --> 00:16:30,591 It's like, well, what's going on there? 283 00:16:30,735 --> 00:16:33,195 And you know, this is what I encourage my clients to do. 284 00:16:33,195 --> 00:16:34,995 And with workshops and stuff, it's like, well, hang on a minute. 285 00:16:35,025 --> 00:16:40,815 Let's just slow down for a bit and let's just start questioning these 286 00:16:40,845 --> 00:16:46,605 basic assumptions of what we think it is that we're experiencing. 287 00:16:46,845 --> 00:16:52,934 Because I've seen time and time and time again that when people get a bit 288 00:16:52,934 --> 00:16:59,684 more of a handle on the nature of that experience, then the experience changes. 289 00:17:00,254 --> 00:17:02,894 And I can see that in a very abstract thing. 290 00:17:02,894 --> 00:17:05,984 I can, I can imagine sort of sitting in a workshop and that example 291 00:17:05,984 --> 00:17:08,024 of a film is, is really powerful. 292 00:17:08,024 --> 00:17:10,124 Yeah, 'cause it's a hundred percent your senses, isn't it? 293 00:17:10,124 --> 00:17:11,234 And it's nothing that's happening. 294 00:17:11,414 --> 00:17:14,714 You know, you are not in any danger 'cause you're sat in a cinema or whatever. 295 00:17:15,235 --> 00:17:19,195 But I'm just thinking if you are, you've got to the train station, you're at King's 296 00:17:19,195 --> 00:17:20,455 Cross trying to get back to Cambridge. 297 00:17:20,455 --> 00:17:21,835 All the trains are canceled. 298 00:17:21,925 --> 00:17:25,255 You've lost your wallet, you've lost your phone, you can't get home, 299 00:17:25,255 --> 00:17:28,315 you've got nowhere of contacting people and you might be having to 300 00:17:28,315 --> 00:17:32,185 like spend the night in the station, cold, hungry, dangerous, whatever. 301 00:17:32,755 --> 00:17:34,758 That is a physical threat. 302 00:17:34,758 --> 00:17:36,378 That's a real physical threat to you. 303 00:17:36,443 --> 00:17:40,943 Yeah, and, and brilliantly the, the, you know, the human system is set up 304 00:17:40,943 --> 00:17:42,953 fantastically to deal with that stuff. 305 00:17:42,953 --> 00:17:44,513 You know, we're like peak human. 306 00:17:44,783 --> 00:17:48,263 We are a, we're a number one species on earth, allegedly. 307 00:17:49,193 --> 00:17:52,613 It's hard to believe sometimes, but yeah, we're absolutely, 308 00:17:52,913 --> 00:17:57,623 I think, I think overall, Rachel, you know, the, like the, the organism's prime 309 00:17:57,623 --> 00:18:04,323 directive is to stay alive and, and it will do whatever it takes to fulfill that. 310 00:18:04,323 --> 00:18:09,913 So in that situation, like if someone, if someone throws a punch at us, we've 311 00:18:09,913 --> 00:18:13,723 got these things called reflexes and, and, and we'll get out of the way. 312 00:18:13,933 --> 00:18:20,353 If we were to stand by the side of a road, a busy road and deliberately just try and 313 00:18:20,353 --> 00:18:24,523 like look at our feet instead of looking at the traffic as we cross the road, 314 00:18:24,733 --> 00:18:29,983 we'd, we'd have a real visceral sensation of that being really, really dangerous. 315 00:18:30,723 --> 00:18:32,133 That stuff's built in. 316 00:18:32,163 --> 00:18:32,943 That's brilliant. 317 00:18:32,943 --> 00:18:34,863 That's like, let's keep the organism alive. 318 00:18:35,013 --> 00:18:38,583 Which is why like when you go somewhere, like, I dunno what it's like these 319 00:18:38,583 --> 00:18:42,603 days, but when I went to Vietnam for my elective, like one of the most difficult 320 00:18:42,603 --> 00:18:46,973 things to do was to cross the road because what you had to do was actually just 321 00:18:46,973 --> 00:18:50,033 look at your feet because the traffic would go, you know, all these bicycles 322 00:18:50,033 --> 00:18:52,193 and mopeds would just go range you. 323 00:18:52,373 --> 00:18:54,923 And if you actually made eye contact with anyone, they were more 324 00:18:54,923 --> 00:18:57,533 likely to smash into you 'cause they weren't used to it at all. 325 00:18:57,893 --> 00:19:01,926 So, yeah, and that just goes to show that, there are cultural differences as well. 326 00:19:01,986 --> 00:19:06,036 You know, what's, whose ex who's experience is true there, Rachel? 327 00:19:06,036 --> 00:19:10,326 Is it, is it mine of crossing the road or is it the person whose country I'm in, uh, 328 00:19:10,356 --> 00:19:12,336 when, when they're driving down the road? 329 00:19:12,778 --> 00:19:16,728 The whole things just, it's all, it's all mind created. 330 00:19:17,088 --> 00:19:20,688 So yeah, in in situations of physical threat. 331 00:19:21,517 --> 00:19:25,267 the system, the human operating system will be at its best. 332 00:19:25,267 --> 00:19:26,917 It will, it will do whatever it can. 333 00:19:27,307 --> 00:19:31,225 And, and I would argue that, the best way for it to achieve those 334 00:19:31,225 --> 00:19:35,005 goals is for us not to be caught up in a whole load of thinking. 335 00:19:35,515 --> 00:19:39,595 You know, if you were in that situation, when do you think you would make your best 336 00:19:39,595 --> 00:19:42,115 decisions to get out of that situation? 337 00:19:42,295 --> 00:19:46,915 Do you think you'd make good, better decisions if you were kind of like present 338 00:19:47,185 --> 00:19:51,925 and clear minded and, and not caught up in a whole bunch of expectations? 339 00:19:51,955 --> 00:19:55,465 Or do you think you'd make better decisions if you were like panicking and 340 00:19:55,465 --> 00:19:57,055 running around like a headless chicken? 341 00:19:57,440 --> 00:19:57,980 I get that. 342 00:19:58,040 --> 00:19:58,610 I get that. 343 00:19:58,610 --> 00:20:00,710 And you can sort of really see that with the, the physical 344 00:20:00,710 --> 00:20:02,000 survival thing, can't you? 345 00:20:02,120 --> 00:20:04,880 So it's like, uh, yeah, I'm, I'm not gonna just step out into the road 346 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:07,966 without, without looking, 'cause that would be really dangerous, currently 347 00:20:07,966 --> 00:20:09,676 here, uh, in England where I live. 348 00:20:10,112 --> 00:20:14,844 So you can see the physical stuff when it comes to moral injury, that is all about 349 00:20:14,844 --> 00:20:16,409 compassion for other people, isn't it? 350 00:20:16,629 --> 00:20:20,334 It it, it's empathy and compassion, which isn't so much 351 00:20:20,334 --> 00:20:22,074 about our own survival, is it? 352 00:20:22,074 --> 00:20:24,474 But it is quite hardwired into us. 353 00:20:24,474 --> 00:20:28,824 Well, it's, I guess, hardwired into some people more than other people. 354 00:20:28,824 --> 00:20:32,022 Other people seem to have no compassion or empathy for, for others. 355 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:34,980 So how does that work? 356 00:20:35,010 --> 00:20:38,910 Because I can sit there and go, okay, it's, it's just an experience I'm having 357 00:20:39,300 --> 00:20:43,380 that that patient can't get the help that they need because of flaws in the system. 358 00:20:43,380 --> 00:20:46,710 But in reality, I've got that patient in front of me really upset 359 00:20:47,130 --> 00:20:50,923 with a health condition that's deteriorating, and it feels awful to me. 360 00:20:50,973 --> 00:20:54,213 How do I, how do I square that up with, oh, well this is just an 361 00:20:54,213 --> 00:20:57,188 experience I'm having my, uh, and, and my thinking's making it worse? 362 00:20:57,353 --> 00:20:59,978 I don't, I don't think we get to choose Rachel. 363 00:21:01,088 --> 00:21:02,258 I don't think we get to choose. 364 00:21:02,258 --> 00:21:05,699 I don't think there's anything that we can do in situations like that. 365 00:21:06,233 --> 00:21:07,943 Oh, it's like that Wayne Dyer quote, isn't it? 366 00:21:07,943 --> 00:21:10,853 When you change the way you look at things, the, the, the things you look at 367 00:21:10,853 --> 00:21:15,563 change, it means that the situation that you are in will actually be different 368 00:21:15,563 --> 00:21:20,303 from the one, you know, you and I are sat here in the comfort of our, our, 369 00:21:20,303 --> 00:21:25,283 our offices at the moment, having a, having a conversation, and we're creating 370 00:21:25,283 --> 00:21:31,583 mental images of a future that, that may, that's unlikely for us to exist. 371 00:21:32,062 --> 00:21:37,372 You know, it is in itself a story, and what we are trying to do is I, 372 00:21:37,432 --> 00:21:43,762 is to put ourselves in that story and manage that situation, and manage 373 00:21:43,762 --> 00:21:49,312 our experience of it, or manage it on behalf of our listeners and it, 374 00:21:49,402 --> 00:21:52,192 and it's all stories, all thought. 375 00:21:52,479 --> 00:21:56,289 I mean, I I, I do get this with clients where they've, they like, they've, they, 376 00:21:56,289 --> 00:21:59,649 they've really seen something around this and like the way the world's lifted off 377 00:21:59,649 --> 00:22:03,759 their shoulder, it's like, oh my god, you know, it's like, it's, it's, it's thought. 378 00:22:03,789 --> 00:22:05,499 It's like, it's not the situation. 379 00:22:05,499 --> 00:22:09,459 It's, it's my mind's response to the situation that's the issue. 380 00:22:09,459 --> 00:22:13,599 And there's something about that that like really, like, gives this space. 381 00:22:13,989 --> 00:22:18,309 And so we'll be like, do I do a lot of my coaching out outdoors, and we'll be, 382 00:22:18,309 --> 00:22:21,789 we'll be like, I remember wandering down the canal with the client and they'd 383 00:22:21,789 --> 00:22:27,039 had the most wonderful realization about the nature of their problems and how 384 00:22:27,039 --> 00:22:28,629 they weren't really problems at all. 385 00:22:28,629 --> 00:22:32,129 It was just the, the mind chattering away, making it into a problem. 386 00:22:32,776 --> 00:22:36,051 And then it started up again, but it started up again in a, in a way that 387 00:22:36,051 --> 00:22:42,411 was a, that was subtly different and it was unrecognizable as thought because 388 00:22:42,411 --> 00:22:43,701 it was a little bit along those lines. 389 00:22:43,791 --> 00:22:46,714 It was a little bit along the lines of, now this is all well and good 390 00:22:46,714 --> 00:22:51,424 Giles, and right here, right now, I can see everything with clarity. 391 00:22:51,530 --> 00:22:53,835 I don't have any problem with any of this at all. 392 00:22:53,835 --> 00:22:56,565 I can see life really, really clearly. 393 00:22:57,495 --> 00:23:01,455 But what about next week when I'm not seeing, and it, and it's like, 394 00:23:01,515 --> 00:23:06,525 oh, hello, hello, mind, you've made an, you've reappeared again. 395 00:23:06,855 --> 00:23:10,215 And, and it, and it's something that like, really looks like a legitimate 396 00:23:10,215 --> 00:23:14,595 problem, but again, it's just, it's just the mind getting revved back up again. 397 00:23:14,835 --> 00:23:18,886 Because I think it was E, Eckhart Toll said that, you know, the guy 398 00:23:18,886 --> 00:23:22,156 who wrote the, the, the Power of Now it's like the, the mind makes 399 00:23:22,156 --> 00:23:23,656 an enemy of the present moment. 400 00:23:23,986 --> 00:23:27,109 Like it's not required in the present moment, the mind. 401 00:23:27,139 --> 00:23:28,219 So it makes an enemy of it. 402 00:23:28,219 --> 00:23:31,549 It doesn't like us being, 'cause it's like, oh, well hang on a minute. 403 00:23:31,759 --> 00:23:32,689 I'm out of a job here. 404 00:23:32,899 --> 00:23:33,829 I'll tell you what I'll do. 405 00:23:34,099 --> 00:23:37,759 I'll create a story about next week and we'll see how, see how we 406 00:23:37,759 --> 00:23:39,679 can problem solve that one away. 407 00:23:39,850 --> 00:23:41,350 It's just more mind activity. 408 00:23:41,395 --> 00:23:44,005 I, I get that and I'm responsible for doing that, but there's 409 00:23:44,005 --> 00:23:45,685 a, I've got more yes buts. 410 00:23:45,685 --> 00:23:48,235 The more you talk, the more yes buts I've got, which is helpful. 411 00:23:48,505 --> 00:23:53,276 Um, that's all well and good, like we wanna, we wanna avoid the stress, but if 412 00:23:53,276 --> 00:23:57,146 we're trying to avoid the mind, 'cause the mind's not helpful, then won't we 413 00:23:57,146 --> 00:23:58,696 miss out on the good stuff as well? 414 00:23:58,922 --> 00:24:01,842 Won't we miss out on the happiness and the love and that 'cause all of that 415 00:24:01,842 --> 00:24:03,222 is just thinking as well, isn't it? 416 00:24:03,327 --> 00:24:03,949 what, why? 417 00:24:04,009 --> 00:24:05,059 Why would you do that? 418 00:24:06,379 --> 00:24:11,844 Again, it's like, it's more just like, there are absolutely no rules here. 419 00:24:12,435 --> 00:24:14,355 None of this is prescriptive. 420 00:24:14,565 --> 00:24:18,015 Like when I start my courses, I put up two disclaimers and I think 421 00:24:18,015 --> 00:24:21,662 the first disclaimer is something that says, um, this doesn't mean 422 00:24:21,662 --> 00:24:23,102 there's anything that you should do. 423 00:24:23,162 --> 00:24:25,966 There's nothing you should do as a result of this. 424 00:24:26,176 --> 00:24:28,906 And the other one is that you don't, this doesn't mean that you should 425 00:24:28,906 --> 00:24:31,054 just put up with things at all. 426 00:24:31,054 --> 00:24:33,784 It's just seeing life with clarity. 427 00:24:33,844 --> 00:24:34,744 It's seeing how it works. 428 00:24:34,954 --> 00:24:40,954 Now, if I've got some really, um, uh, hopeful, excited thoughts, like, maybe 429 00:24:40,954 --> 00:24:45,184 about, uh, um, a a bike packing adventure that I've got coming up or something, 430 00:24:45,334 --> 00:24:47,524 you know, I'm aware of what that is. 431 00:24:47,674 --> 00:24:49,054 It's very pleasurable. 432 00:24:49,234 --> 00:24:52,864 Um, it's a fantastic way of procrastinating and not getting any work 433 00:24:52,864 --> 00:24:57,274 done, you know, route planning and, and, and fussing over my, my, my bike luggage 434 00:24:57,274 --> 00:24:59,194 and stuff like that and shopping online. 435 00:24:59,194 --> 00:25:00,484 It's all very exciting. 436 00:25:00,484 --> 00:25:04,719 And, but it's all none of it's actually happening in reality. 437 00:25:04,719 --> 00:25:09,351 It's all, it's all, again, the mind projecting into the future, 438 00:25:09,561 --> 00:25:11,661 which is not a problem at all. 439 00:25:11,691 --> 00:25:13,071 It's what us humans do. 440 00:25:13,782 --> 00:25:18,492 I just know that, like to not really attach to that outcome 441 00:25:18,942 --> 00:25:22,692 because I can't guarantee that I'm gonna get the outcome that I want. 442 00:25:23,213 --> 00:25:28,014 I, I can plan to the nth degree about what my bike packing adventure's gonna 443 00:25:28,014 --> 00:25:32,844 be like, but I can't control weather, I can't control how I'm gonna feel in 444 00:25:32,844 --> 00:25:36,864 any moment that comes along, I can't control how other people are gonna respond 445 00:25:36,864 --> 00:25:38,304 to me, I can't control the traffic. 446 00:25:38,304 --> 00:25:39,894 I can't, you know, like none of it. 447 00:25:39,894 --> 00:25:43,434 It's like, it's totally the unknown because life is totally unknown. 448 00:25:43,554 --> 00:25:46,524 We don't know what's gonna happen from moment to moment. 449 00:25:46,884 --> 00:25:48,234 So yeah, it's fine. 450 00:25:48,744 --> 00:25:52,434 Have a brilliant experience, have fun, uh, daydreaming. 451 00:25:52,679 --> 00:25:56,309 But there's a, you know, there's like, there's a fine line, you know, where day 452 00:25:56,339 --> 00:26:02,579 daydreaming then sort of slips over into, into worrying and fretting, you know, and 453 00:26:02,579 --> 00:26:07,139 again, that's when it's really helpful to be able to see things with clarity. 454 00:26:07,139 --> 00:26:13,020 It's like, okay, so this little thought created future, like right now, it's 455 00:26:13,020 --> 00:26:14,760 not helpful to give that attention. 456 00:26:14,924 --> 00:26:18,224 So when you talk about your clients of getting these moments of insight, 457 00:26:18,284 --> 00:26:21,254 I find that the biggest insights people get is when they realize 458 00:26:21,254 --> 00:26:24,554 what they are in control of and what they're, they're not in control of. 459 00:26:24,974 --> 00:26:27,422 and I think it's all well and good saying to people, great. 460 00:26:27,422 --> 00:26:29,882 You know, the stuff you're not in control of, we need to accept it, 461 00:26:29,882 --> 00:26:32,642 let it go, you can care about it, you don't need to carry it and all that. 462 00:26:32,642 --> 00:26:34,922 And I think that is hugely helpful. 463 00:26:35,192 --> 00:26:37,832 My issue is around the stuff that we do have control of. 464 00:26:38,232 --> 00:26:42,252 And I think that's the problem for doctors is there is stuff you could do. 465 00:26:42,612 --> 00:26:47,085 Like if patients can't get appointments at your practice, you could just work 466 00:26:47,085 --> 00:26:50,415 seven days a week, 24 hours a day and see all those patients, you know? 467 00:26:50,415 --> 00:26:52,785 And I think that's where we come a cropper of thinking, well, I 468 00:26:52,785 --> 00:26:54,645 can solve this by working harder. 469 00:26:54,675 --> 00:26:58,485 The reality is, no, we can't because that, that what happens when you are working 24 470 00:26:58,485 --> 00:27:00,615 hours a day and there's still more people. 471 00:27:00,969 --> 00:27:03,039 But we, we feel that we can work harder. 472 00:27:03,039 --> 00:27:05,499 But there, the problem is we are in control of stuff 473 00:27:05,499 --> 00:27:06,939 that we, that we could do. 474 00:27:06,999 --> 00:27:10,599 And so what I tend to focus on is changing the way that we are 475 00:27:10,599 --> 00:27:13,749 thinking about those things and the stories that we're telling ourselves. 476 00:27:13,779 --> 00:27:16,569 Whereas you are saying you just need to distance yourself from the 477 00:27:16,569 --> 00:27:20,979 thinking completely, recognize it's all a creation of the mind and sort 478 00:27:20,979 --> 00:27:23,199 of say F it, I'm just not gonna. 479 00:27:23,634 --> 00:27:24,864 Not gonna engage with that. 480 00:27:25,323 --> 00:27:26,823 And what, by the way, when, what can I just clarify? 481 00:27:26,823 --> 00:27:30,003 When I say f it, I'm saying that in the best possible way because we've had, 482 00:27:30,213 --> 00:27:34,473 um, John C Parkin on the podcast, Mr. He wrote the F it books, and it's a proper 483 00:27:34,473 --> 00:27:38,193 technique of detaching yourself from the outcome, the outcomes of what's happened. 484 00:27:38,193 --> 00:27:42,483 So I, when I say effort, I'm not using it in ris, Derry way. 485 00:27:42,483 --> 00:27:44,863 I am saying, actually that is a really good technique, just saying actually f 486 00:27:44,883 --> 00:27:46,653 it, I can't do anything more about that. 487 00:27:46,963 --> 00:27:52,099 I think this whole area of control, what we can control and what we can't 488 00:27:52,099 --> 00:27:56,037 control lies at the root of the problem, really, because I, I suppose I'd be 489 00:27:56,037 --> 00:28:00,997 quite provocative and suggest, for instance, I dunno what it's like in 490 00:28:00,997 --> 00:28:04,717 your house, Rachel, but me, me and my wife both have a stash of cards. 491 00:28:04,897 --> 00:28:06,457 Do you keep a stash of cards? 492 00:28:07,434 --> 00:28:07,974 Yeah. 493 00:28:07,974 --> 00:28:10,524 You know, So that like, you know, you're not always running around 494 00:28:10,524 --> 00:28:12,624 like a headless chicken at the last minute looking for card. 495 00:28:12,894 --> 00:28:15,684 So my wife's got a stash of cards and I've got a stash of cards. 496 00:28:16,134 --> 00:28:21,114 And she gave me a card for my 50th birthday that she said she's had in 497 00:28:21,114 --> 00:28:23,454 her, she's had in her box for ages. 498 00:28:23,664 --> 00:28:27,594 And every time she gets it out and, and like she's rifling through 499 00:28:27,594 --> 00:28:31,164 and she's like, no, that card is totally unsuitable for everyone. 500 00:28:31,164 --> 00:28:33,534 Like, that's just gonna freak people out, okay? 501 00:28:33,954 --> 00:28:38,089 Uh, and and she says, and I've had it in my box for years and, and, 502 00:28:38,089 --> 00:28:41,274 and I, and I've never been able to think of anyone to give it to. 503 00:28:41,274 --> 00:28:44,574 And she said, and I was just looking through them like in the runup to 504 00:28:44,574 --> 00:28:48,294 your birthday and I realized that it was the perfect card for you, Giles. 505 00:28:48,504 --> 00:28:51,024 And I've got it here in my hand and I keep it on my desk next 506 00:28:51,024 --> 00:28:53,034 to my computer at all times. 507 00:28:53,064 --> 00:28:54,624 'cause it's profoundly helpful. 508 00:28:54,984 --> 00:28:55,674 And it says. 509 00:28:55,674 --> 00:28:58,850 Relax, nothing is under control. 510 00:29:00,380 --> 00:29:01,190 Okay. 511 00:29:02,060 --> 00:29:05,510 Nothing, nothing is under control. 512 00:29:05,810 --> 00:29:11,060 And so what I'd invite people and, and I realized that this is provocative and 513 00:29:11,060 --> 00:29:14,990 kind of like, you know, when I'm working with clients and, and running, running 514 00:29:14,990 --> 00:29:18,290 courses and stuff, you know, we kind of like eventually get to this point. 515 00:29:18,290 --> 00:29:19,430 But it's like, well, hang on a minute. 516 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:24,223 Well, what if life is happening, what if the mind body is responding 517 00:29:24,223 --> 00:29:27,823 in a way that is appropriate to keeping the organism alive? 518 00:29:28,109 --> 00:29:32,099 That it, it's responding in a way that, that, that makes sense to it? 519 00:29:32,319 --> 00:29:36,429 Like, for instance, we've got a whole load of physiological processes 520 00:29:36,429 --> 00:29:38,109 going on inside our bodies right now. 521 00:29:38,109 --> 00:29:42,249 Rachel, like Giles and Rachel aren't involved in those in any way at all. 522 00:29:42,614 --> 00:29:43,844 That's just happening, okay? 523 00:29:44,176 --> 00:29:46,276 So what if all of that stuff is going on? 524 00:29:46,276 --> 00:29:48,706 What if we're responding in a way that makes sense to the 525 00:29:48,706 --> 00:29:50,146 mind, body system at all times? 526 00:29:50,476 --> 00:29:56,431 And then almost like overlaid on top of that is this narration by 527 00:29:56,431 --> 00:29:58,249 the mind saying, oh, I did that. 528 00:29:58,489 --> 00:30:00,289 Oh, I made that, I made that decision. 529 00:30:00,379 --> 00:30:01,669 Oh, I changed that. 530 00:30:01,849 --> 00:30:02,449 Oh, that's me. 531 00:30:02,509 --> 00:30:05,089 Oh no, I didn't have anything to do with that because I don't like that. 532 00:30:05,089 --> 00:30:06,439 It doesn't match with my values. 533 00:30:06,499 --> 00:30:07,399 That's their problem. 534 00:30:07,399 --> 00:30:08,359 That's not my problem. 535 00:30:08,729 --> 00:30:11,816 What if like nothing is under control? 536 00:30:11,866 --> 00:30:16,407 We are being lived by life, and then on top of that, we've got this almost 537 00:30:16,407 --> 00:30:20,397 like, it's like, you know, when you watch a, when you watch a film With 538 00:30:20,397 --> 00:30:24,207 the, the, not just the subtitles, but the, the, the closed captioning. 539 00:30:24,577 --> 00:30:26,484 And it's going same of door closing. 540 00:30:27,414 --> 00:30:29,409 You know, it's a little why if life's a bit like that. 541 00:30:30,109 --> 00:30:32,222 But it's that, it's that life's happening. 542 00:30:32,222 --> 00:30:36,902 And then we've got this kind of like DVD commentary, track o overlaid over the 543 00:30:36,902 --> 00:30:41,552 whole thing with the mind going, you know, well look, I did that, which is again, why 544 00:30:41,552 --> 00:30:43,232 it makes an enemy of the present moment. 545 00:30:43,232 --> 00:30:50,335 Because when we are truly present to life, when we're in flow, when we're in 546 00:30:50,365 --> 00:30:57,473 the, the, the effortless creative flow of life, it's commentary just, just 547 00:30:57,593 --> 00:31:00,203 isn't, it's surplus to requirements. 548 00:31:00,203 --> 00:31:00,503 It's. 549 00:31:00,998 --> 00:31:02,778 But are you saying then that we have no choice 550 00:31:03,394 --> 00:31:04,473 Is are, are we going? 551 00:31:04,473 --> 00:31:04,863 There 552 00:31:05,043 --> 00:31:05,401 Go on. 553 00:31:05,401 --> 00:31:06,446 Let's, let's go there. 554 00:31:06,877 --> 00:31:07,327 wasn't it? 555 00:31:07,916 --> 00:31:11,992 I think it was Schopenhauer that said you, you're free to do whatever it is you want. 556 00:31:12,352 --> 00:31:14,332 You're just not free to choose what you want. 557 00:31:17,329 --> 00:31:20,449 You know, we can talk until the cows come home, but like bringing it into the real 558 00:31:20,449 --> 00:31:24,469 world, there are, you know, there are real life consequences to some of these things. 559 00:31:24,799 --> 00:31:26,059 To a lot of these things. 560 00:31:26,299 --> 00:31:31,629 So it's understandable that, that in a, in a lot of situations, it will, it 561 00:31:31,629 --> 00:31:36,969 will be difficult, like inverted commas difficult to make, to make decisions 562 00:31:36,969 --> 00:31:41,536 because there's one mind created future, and then there's another mind 563 00:31:41,536 --> 00:31:46,426 created future, but it's really, really helpful to see that they're both mind 564 00:31:46,486 --> 00:31:51,586 created futures that we c we can't actually predict what's gonna happen. 565 00:31:52,156 --> 00:31:56,842 And dancing to the tune of the mind, you know, having a bit more 566 00:31:57,202 --> 00:32:03,352 understanding of what's going on means that we are a bit more in tune 567 00:32:03,352 --> 00:32:07,087 with that, again, flow intuition. 568 00:32:07,471 --> 00:32:12,031 gut instinct, just like doing the next thing that makes sense, 569 00:32:12,241 --> 00:32:13,711 not making a big deal about it. 570 00:32:13,741 --> 00:32:17,576 And if we don't know, I think, I think one of the biggest problems is that a, 571 00:32:17,581 --> 00:32:21,659 a lot of the time we don't know what to do in any particular situation. 572 00:32:21,659 --> 00:32:26,249 And we feel like we should, but we don't need to Right there and then. 573 00:32:26,611 --> 00:32:31,342 And that's when the, the mind really, you know, like you, preparing 574 00:32:31,342 --> 00:32:35,602 for a talk or a, a presentation or, or, or something like that. 575 00:32:35,602 --> 00:32:37,402 You know, it's like it's in a week's time. 576 00:32:37,762 --> 00:32:41,502 But we don't have a clear picture of exactly what it is we're gonna say 577 00:32:41,502 --> 00:32:45,282 or how we're gonna do it or, and the mind, again, the mind hates that. 578 00:32:45,312 --> 00:32:48,162 'Cause it just like, it likes to know, it wants, it likes to feel 579 00:32:48,162 --> 00:32:50,562 like everything's sorted in advance. 580 00:32:50,952 --> 00:32:52,872 So it talks a lot. 581 00:32:53,022 --> 00:32:57,372 I get this like loads 'cause I'm, you know, I'm always, as, you know, I 582 00:32:57,372 --> 00:33:02,382 write every day these days and, and, and, and I run Wellbeing Wednesdays. 583 00:33:02,382 --> 00:33:06,222 And so I'm, you know, in front of audiences and stuff and, and just 584 00:33:06,222 --> 00:33:11,172 observing what, how the mind responds to that is endlessly fascinating to me. 585 00:33:11,172 --> 00:33:13,752 It's, oh, Giles, you know, you haven't done this, you haven't done that, you need 586 00:33:13,752 --> 00:33:15,571 to do this, it's gonna be a toll disaster. 587 00:33:15,702 --> 00:33:18,372 And it's like, yeah, they're their mind, you know? 588 00:33:18,462 --> 00:33:20,142 Yeah, I know, I know. 589 00:33:20,142 --> 00:33:21,222 Yeah, your input's not heard. 590 00:33:21,372 --> 00:33:24,579 Does it make sense for me to be preparing for it right now? 591 00:33:24,609 --> 00:33:28,068 Well, no, actually there's 10 other things that are more important right now. 592 00:33:28,068 --> 00:33:30,216 Or there's really, there's only one I can do. 593 00:33:30,216 --> 00:33:32,436 So there's one other thing that's important right now, more 594 00:33:32,436 --> 00:33:33,966 important, and I'm doing that. 595 00:33:33,966 --> 00:33:34,326 Thanks. 596 00:33:34,476 --> 00:33:40,116 I don't need to be having my attention drawn by the activity of the mind 597 00:33:40,386 --> 00:33:43,506 about its insecurities right now. 598 00:33:44,067 --> 00:33:46,557 ' cause I wanna be present to what it is I'm doing. 599 00:33:46,557 --> 00:33:47,067 Actually, 600 00:33:47,262 --> 00:33:50,322 But surely there's value in changing some of those thoughts. 601 00:33:50,502 --> 00:33:55,122 So if you can actually change the way that your mind is thinking, then you're 602 00:33:55,122 --> 00:33:58,422 going to be experiencing less distress when you forget to keep remembering that 603 00:33:58,482 --> 00:34:00,282 it's not real, et cetera, et cetera. 604 00:34:00,341 --> 00:34:03,191 I've never had any luck trying to change my thoughts. 605 00:34:03,191 --> 00:34:03,641 Rachel. 606 00:34:04,032 --> 00:34:07,182 You know, I, I just, I, I, I think we get the thoughts that we're given. 607 00:34:07,182 --> 00:34:11,804 I think, I think it's a, it can become something of a burden. 608 00:34:12,346 --> 00:34:17,031 Certainly my experience of the whole kinda like world of, of, of personal 609 00:34:17,031 --> 00:34:20,931 development, of, of, of feeling like I should be able to change 610 00:34:20,931 --> 00:34:23,463 my experience, that it's on me. 611 00:34:23,523 --> 00:34:30,344 And, and when we say on me, what we are really saying is on, on my mind, you know? 612 00:34:30,704 --> 00:34:35,624 Because the, if the mind body is, is, is, is moving through life, is being 613 00:34:35,624 --> 00:34:38,894 lived by life, is just doing what makes sense, is responding in a way that 614 00:34:38,894 --> 00:34:44,314 makes sense and, and we've got this, this narrative overlaid and that it's, 615 00:34:44,314 --> 00:34:49,714 that the mind is, is is trying to take ownership of all of the activities 616 00:34:49,714 --> 00:34:51,034 and the decisions and everything. 617 00:34:51,094 --> 00:34:56,884 And, and so it can be a bit unhelpful, i, I framed, um, and you 618 00:34:56,884 --> 00:35:00,304 know, I do with clients because, because they're like, well. 619 00:35:00,437 --> 00:35:02,742 I, I feel like I should be doing things differently. 620 00:35:02,742 --> 00:35:08,112 I feel like I, I, I, I should be able to, to, to deal with this in a different way. 621 00:35:08,622 --> 00:35:13,692 I feel like I should be able to do something about, about this. 622 00:35:13,872 --> 00:35:16,512 And again, it's just gently inviting. 623 00:35:16,512 --> 00:35:19,512 Well, maybe, maybe you are not in control of that at all. 624 00:35:20,071 --> 00:35:24,631 And seeing that, just seeing that again, just shifts things. 625 00:35:24,631 --> 00:35:26,071 It shifts people's perspectives. 626 00:35:26,071 --> 00:35:29,482 It's like, what, what, what if everything that I'm doing is, is, 627 00:35:29,482 --> 00:35:31,042 is just making sense right now? 628 00:35:31,402 --> 00:35:34,132 Well, that in itself is kind of like shifting something in the 629 00:35:34,132 --> 00:35:37,762 background and, and, and different things then make sense, and you find 630 00:35:37,762 --> 00:35:39,352 yourself behaving in a different way. 631 00:35:40,048 --> 00:35:44,856 I'm just trying to work out how you can actually do some of the things 632 00:35:44,856 --> 00:35:47,916 that are gonna shift you away from stress and burnout in medicine. 633 00:35:47,916 --> 00:35:51,395 If you are not looking at, not just attaching to your thoughts, but the 634 00:35:51,395 --> 00:35:53,333 way you're thinking about some things. 635 00:35:53,375 --> 00:35:56,645 'cause you've got to change your thinking to start to realize 636 00:35:56,645 --> 00:35:57,845 that the mind is just the mind. 637 00:35:57,905 --> 00:36:00,065 That's a thought changing thing as well, isn't it? 638 00:36:00,305 --> 00:36:07,257 Well, maybe, just listening to a discussion like this is enough. 639 00:36:08,277 --> 00:36:13,107 Because the big changes that we see in our lives, they do come 640 00:36:13,107 --> 00:36:15,087 around from shifts in perspective. 641 00:36:15,087 --> 00:36:18,567 They do come around from shifts in thinking, you know, like you and I 642 00:36:18,567 --> 00:36:21,957 have talked about alcohol in the past, and that was a big one, wasn't it? 643 00:36:22,587 --> 00:36:25,156 And we get these shifts in perspective. 644 00:36:25,186 --> 00:36:29,026 And the, that's not something that we bring about ourselves. 645 00:36:29,335 --> 00:36:32,965 I think what, what this approach, if you wanna call it an approach 646 00:36:32,965 --> 00:36:35,095 or a viewpoint, is what you called at the beginning, wasn't it? 647 00:36:35,095 --> 00:36:38,590 You know, the, the, the, the beauty of this viewpoint is, as far as I 648 00:36:38,590 --> 00:36:41,710 can tell, is like, you know, it's like, it, this is the way it is. 649 00:36:42,104 --> 00:36:43,574 It's a bit like gravity, you know? 650 00:36:43,574 --> 00:36:46,064 It's just the, the, the, the gravity's always there. 651 00:36:46,064 --> 00:36:47,624 It doesn't really care about you. 652 00:36:47,624 --> 00:36:49,574 You can believe in it or not believe in it. 653 00:36:49,574 --> 00:36:50,774 It doesn't make any difference. 654 00:36:50,774 --> 00:36:53,084 It's, it's, it's always switched on, you know? 655 00:36:53,153 --> 00:36:55,105 And it's a little bit the same with this. 656 00:36:55,105 --> 00:36:58,495 It's like, well, we we're always living in, we're always living in a 657 00:36:58,495 --> 00:37:00,415 thought created perceptual reality. 658 00:37:00,415 --> 00:37:02,155 That, that's just the way it is, basically. 659 00:37:02,155 --> 00:37:02,365 You know? 660 00:37:02,545 --> 00:37:02,965 Sure. 661 00:37:03,025 --> 00:37:03,895 Does it look like that? 662 00:37:04,405 --> 00:37:04,795 No, of course. 663 00:37:04,795 --> 00:37:06,175 It doesn't look like that at all. 664 00:37:06,175 --> 00:37:10,876 It's like the blooming best illusion the world has ever seen. 665 00:37:10,876 --> 00:37:12,166 It's like, it's amazing. 666 00:37:12,346 --> 00:37:16,036 But it, I think it's got to look completely true in order for 667 00:37:16,036 --> 00:37:18,106 us to function as human beings. 668 00:37:18,106 --> 00:37:22,463 But then to see through that trick of the mind just means that we can take 669 00:37:22,463 --> 00:37:27,772 it less seriously, and maybe, looking in this direction, you know, there'll 670 00:37:27,772 --> 00:37:32,242 be people who have switched off this podcast a long time ago, Rachel, 'cause 671 00:37:32,242 --> 00:37:34,042 I don't want to hear what that, oh God. 672 00:37:34,042 --> 00:37:35,819 It's another one with that Giles bloke. 673 00:37:35,819 --> 00:37:37,289 He, he talks a load of waffle. 674 00:37:37,469 --> 00:37:40,044 And then there'll be other people who are like, oh, it's, you know, 675 00:37:40,064 --> 00:37:42,119 it is, it's that Giles bloke again. 676 00:37:42,389 --> 00:37:46,882 Like the, the, when Rach and Giles were looking in that particular direction, I 677 00:37:46,882 --> 00:37:52,102 didn't really get it because getting it again is an intellectual thing, isn't it? 678 00:37:52,293 --> 00:37:54,673 You know, what, if there's nothing to get here, what if there's 679 00:37:54,673 --> 00:37:56,203 nothing to get here at all? 680 00:37:56,388 --> 00:38:00,009 What if it's like, this is just the way that things are, and always have 681 00:38:00,009 --> 00:38:06,875 been and always will be, and, And just realizing that, and those realizations 682 00:38:06,875 --> 00:38:12,425 are more likely to happen when we're not having an argument in our head 683 00:38:12,425 --> 00:38:14,015 about yeah, you know, yeah, but. 684 00:38:14,271 --> 00:38:19,099 You know, I see my job a lot of the time as, as managing those expectations, 685 00:38:19,099 --> 00:38:25,338 managing the mind's response to all of this, to to, to help it go to sleep 686 00:38:25,338 --> 00:38:31,784 a little bit, so that we can see Oh, yeah, underneath, that mind experience, 687 00:38:31,964 --> 00:38:37,658 I actually find myself, I find who I really am, and I, and, and, and it, 688 00:38:37,748 --> 00:38:41,558 it feels good, it, it feels right. 689 00:38:42,248 --> 00:38:46,497 It feels like home, and it's okay that the mind does what it does, but 690 00:38:46,497 --> 00:38:48,297 I don't have to take it seriously. 691 00:38:48,897 --> 00:38:50,037 It's just chatter. 692 00:38:50,563 --> 00:38:53,383 Maybe what we're talking about more is having to change your beliefs. 693 00:38:53,503 --> 00:38:57,823 If you change your beliefs, then, then that changes your thoughts, but your 694 00:38:57,823 --> 00:39:00,793 beliefs have changed about what the mind does and how helpful the mind is, which 695 00:39:00,793 --> 00:39:02,533 has then helps you change your thinking. 696 00:39:02,533 --> 00:39:04,993 And yes, when he said, have I ever been able to change my 697 00:39:04,993 --> 00:39:07,213 thinking, I would say, yes, I have. 698 00:39:07,813 --> 00:39:12,035 But if, and use the alcohol things as an, as a an example, I 699 00:39:12,035 --> 00:39:13,385 did the, uh, alcohol experiment. 700 00:39:13,385 --> 00:39:17,955 We talked about the, uh, Annie Grace stuff called the, I think the Naked Mind? 701 00:39:18,395 --> 00:39:19,285 This Naked Mind. 702 00:39:19,505 --> 00:39:20,075 Brilliant book. 703 00:39:20,075 --> 00:39:23,095 If you wanna just like, change your relationship with alcohol, you know, I 704 00:39:23,095 --> 00:39:24,535 just realized that I was just, you know. 705 00:39:24,837 --> 00:39:26,277 Having more than I wanted to. 706 00:39:26,337 --> 00:39:29,307 Uh, I didn't feel like I was addicted at all, but I just wanted to break that hole 707 00:39:29,307 --> 00:39:31,047 that I felt alcohol had on me sometimes. 708 00:39:31,047 --> 00:39:33,927 So I decided to do this as you say, alcohol experiment. 709 00:39:33,927 --> 00:39:36,687 And the way it works is you listen to it, they talk to you 710 00:39:36,687 --> 00:39:38,337 about your beliefs about alcohol. 711 00:39:38,337 --> 00:39:42,627 Like, I need alcohol to relax or I need alcohol to have a good time. 712 00:39:42,627 --> 00:39:44,463 And then you tried an experiment. 713 00:39:44,463 --> 00:39:47,570 You say, well, if I go out and I don't have a drink, is it gonna be okay? 714 00:39:47,570 --> 00:39:50,630 And you do that and then you realize your beliefs change. 715 00:39:50,630 --> 00:39:53,609 'cause you start to believe, oh, I was okay, and actually I don't 716 00:39:53,609 --> 00:39:55,559 need alcohol to relax and have fun. 717 00:39:55,829 --> 00:39:58,439 So it's, your beliefs have changed and therefore your thinking. 718 00:39:58,439 --> 00:40:00,569 So my thinking around it is totally changed. 719 00:40:00,569 --> 00:40:04,019 And I, I do feel like I, you know, it just doesn't have that, that hold on 720 00:40:04,019 --> 00:40:06,749 me of having to have it all the time, which is, which is absolutely great. 721 00:40:07,139 --> 00:40:10,019 But I did need to do something and I did need to look at my beliefs, 722 00:40:10,019 --> 00:40:11,549 which then changed my thinking. 723 00:40:11,549 --> 00:40:12,569 It didn't just happen. 724 00:40:12,569 --> 00:40:16,589 I couldn't just say, right, I'm just gonna realize it's my mind wanting alcohol, 725 00:40:16,589 --> 00:40:17,909 therefore I'm just gonna leave it. 726 00:40:17,969 --> 00:40:19,349 That didn't work for me. 727 00:40:19,798 --> 00:40:23,458 Again, if we go back to my, my 50th birthday card, relax, nothing 728 00:40:23,463 --> 00:40:26,488 is, is under control, are you open to the idea that, you know, 729 00:40:26,488 --> 00:40:28,048 that that was gonna happen anyway? 730 00:40:28,048 --> 00:40:31,938 And, and, and that, that's, given your experience of your genetics 731 00:40:31,938 --> 00:40:37,578 and your biology and the, whatever it is, 13.8 billion years of 732 00:40:37,638 --> 00:40:41,868 cause and effect that came before this thing we call Rachel Morris? 733 00:40:41,928 --> 00:40:47,328 You know, given, in my, given all that has come to bear in this moment with this 734 00:40:47,328 --> 00:40:50,328 experience that you are having, that it, you know, it, it couldn't have been any 735 00:40:50,328 --> 00:40:54,288 different, you know, reality is, reality, is we, we get, we get what we're given. 736 00:40:54,757 --> 00:41:00,922 And, I think trying to change a belief, for me, there's so much more power 737 00:41:00,922 --> 00:41:07,012 in, in seeing that our experience of lifelike is just one big belief. 738 00:41:07,792 --> 00:41:15,046 It's like all of our, all of our behaviors come from belief and, know, 739 00:41:15,046 --> 00:41:19,307 to like just get a bit of distance from that is, and to get a bit of 740 00:41:19,307 --> 00:41:22,557 distance from the need to do anything. 741 00:41:22,747 --> 00:41:25,117 You know, what if that was the mind, Rachel? 742 00:41:25,117 --> 00:41:29,512 What if that's the mind saying, come on, come on, we need to do 743 00:41:29,512 --> 00:41:31,702 something, we need to do something. 744 00:41:31,702 --> 00:41:35,782 Because aren't, aren't you and I in the business of taking things off 745 00:41:35,782 --> 00:41:37,792 people's plates, Rachel, really? 746 00:41:37,852 --> 00:41:42,322 You know, if when it comes to stress and overwhelm stuff, don't we want to give 747 00:41:42,322 --> 00:41:47,492 people an easier experience giving them a whole load of stuff to do and them 748 00:41:47,492 --> 00:41:51,032 beating themselves up 'cause they don't do it, or beating themselves up 'cause 749 00:41:51,032 --> 00:41:52,412 they don't get the results that they want. 750 00:41:52,412 --> 00:41:54,362 I've been there, I've been there. 751 00:41:54,362 --> 00:41:57,122 It's like, it's not a pleasant place to be at all. 752 00:41:57,737 --> 00:42:00,717 So, Giles, what advice would you give people if people were 753 00:42:00,837 --> 00:42:02,067 saying, yeah, no, I, I agree. 754 00:42:02,157 --> 00:42:02,697 I agree with this. 755 00:42:02,697 --> 00:42:04,767 I'd love to be able to detach a little bit more. 756 00:42:04,977 --> 00:42:06,627 how how do we actually do that? 757 00:42:06,782 --> 00:42:08,282 Can I do something different here? 758 00:42:08,715 --> 00:42:12,636 Can I read something I've written because it really answers this Question. 759 00:42:12,776 --> 00:42:17,470 This is just a, an article I wrote for a magazine and, just let it wash over you. 760 00:42:17,500 --> 00:42:19,900 Listen to it as if you were listening to a piece of music. 761 00:42:19,900 --> 00:42:24,700 There's no information in here that's gonna give you a how to, there's no, there 762 00:42:24,700 --> 00:42:29,380 are no there, there, there's nothing that you need to remember and apply from this, 763 00:42:29,620 --> 00:42:35,440 but I want you to give yourself the, a treat, give yourself the luxury of taking 764 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:41,816 five minutes off life just to be open to things not being quite as they seem. 765 00:42:42,166 --> 00:42:45,559 So I called this one, uh, No Ways to Wellbeing. 766 00:42:45,863 --> 00:42:48,563 I think it was in response to the five Ways to Wellbeing, 767 00:42:50,603 --> 00:42:52,223 no Ways to Wellbeing. 768 00:42:52,673 --> 00:42:56,663 And it starts, um, with a quote from the Scottish mystics, Sydney 769 00:42:56,663 --> 00:43:03,194 Banks, who said, the belief that it takes time to find wisdom is one 770 00:43:03,194 --> 00:43:05,474 of the greatest fallacies on earth. 771 00:43:06,284 --> 00:43:11,174 Wisdom is not learned, it is unfolded from within. 772 00:43:11,970 --> 00:43:15,900 I recently had the honor of sharing some of these writings with a group of 773 00:43:15,900 --> 00:43:20,130 crafters in my wife's shop, plug for the Wool Craft in Abergavenny there. 774 00:43:20,780 --> 00:43:25,130 They meet up regularly to make lovely woolly stuff, and in doing so, 775 00:43:25,310 --> 00:43:28,760 satisfy those five ways to wellbeing. 776 00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:31,596 We're always hearing about: connect with others. 777 00:43:32,121 --> 00:43:36,621 Be active, take notice, keep learning, and give. 778 00:43:37,423 --> 00:43:41,863 It seemed like the perfect forum for these reflections on the human condition. 779 00:43:42,163 --> 00:43:46,824 So I pulled up a chair and joined them as is usual when sharing with 780 00:43:46,824 --> 00:43:51,682 a new group, there were questions, I say new, but of course no one 781 00:43:51,682 --> 00:43:53,422 is new to this understanding. 782 00:43:53,572 --> 00:43:55,312 We all know it on some level. 783 00:43:55,766 --> 00:43:57,926 It's stuff we already do, isn't it? 784 00:43:57,926 --> 00:44:01,466 It just needs someone to point it out to us, said one member. 785 00:44:02,127 --> 00:44:08,255 The most obvious of these were the why questions, why we like this. 786 00:44:08,765 --> 00:44:11,495 Why can we not see the simplicity of life? 787 00:44:12,005 --> 00:44:14,555 Why is it so hard to be present? 788 00:44:15,098 --> 00:44:19,887 Because between us, there was an easy acceptance of the fact that 789 00:44:20,277 --> 00:44:26,487 contentment and peace of mind are to be found now in presence. 790 00:44:27,462 --> 00:44:32,412 And there was a recognition that inside is the place to look for it. 791 00:44:33,102 --> 00:44:38,262 ie not to the impermanent, false idols of the outside world, 792 00:44:38,412 --> 00:44:40,932 possessions, status, dependency. 793 00:44:41,425 --> 00:44:47,035 There was also a tangible feeling of connection and oneness in the room. 794 00:44:47,672 --> 00:44:53,895 A rightness to the materials being shared, manifesting as a desire by everyone there 795 00:44:54,375 --> 00:44:57,045 to hear more of these simple truths. 796 00:44:57,468 --> 00:45:01,398 But then we faltered as the mind reared its head with all 797 00:45:01,398 --> 00:45:03,168 of its unanswerable questions. 798 00:45:03,528 --> 00:45:05,028 Why, what? 799 00:45:05,373 --> 00:45:06,430 How? 800 00:45:06,608 --> 00:45:08,074 What should we do now then? 801 00:45:08,884 --> 00:45:10,924 Well, you are already doing it. 802 00:45:11,436 --> 00:45:14,046 How do we spend more time being present? 803 00:45:14,526 --> 00:45:16,446 Oh, the irony of that question. 804 00:45:17,346 --> 00:45:19,266 Well, you are already there. 805 00:45:19,896 --> 00:45:22,027 You've already got what you're looking for. 806 00:45:23,324 --> 00:45:27,644 You see, we'd spent this time together in a lovely feeling, and yet the 807 00:45:27,644 --> 00:45:34,019 mind wanted more, more answers, more content, more tools, more 808 00:45:34,019 --> 00:45:36,461 space and time to figure it out. 809 00:45:37,437 --> 00:45:41,637 But these are just the mind pulling us away from the very thing we want. 810 00:45:42,287 --> 00:45:48,947 It is the source of our discontent, another disguised aspect of 811 00:45:48,947 --> 00:45:53,537 the outside world that contains none of the wisdom we seek. 812 00:45:54,473 --> 00:46:00,683 You could give it everything it thinks it needs in order to quiet down and then 10 813 00:46:00,683 --> 00:46:02,843 minutes later it would be back for more. 814 00:46:03,323 --> 00:46:04,673 Nope, that's not it. 815 00:46:04,853 --> 00:46:05,783 What else have you got? 816 00:46:06,477 --> 00:46:11,136 So what if you are your own answer? 817 00:46:12,045 --> 00:46:17,605 What if there's no need for anything more than that? 818 00:46:18,546 --> 00:46:22,591 What if each moment that comes along is a gift? 819 00:46:23,019 --> 00:46:27,702 One that you can savor or one that you can be distracted from by the 820 00:46:27,702 --> 00:46:36,282 minds inexhaustible demands for more, different, better, not this? 821 00:46:37,489 --> 00:46:40,894 Wellbeing is here, it's now. 822 00:46:41,241 --> 00:46:45,471 It's who and what you are always and forever. 823 00:46:45,929 --> 00:46:50,099 It is the very definition of look within. 824 00:46:50,756 --> 00:46:53,226 With love, Giles. 825 00:46:54,222 --> 00:46:56,952 Where can people find out more about you and your work? 826 00:46:57,217 --> 00:47:00,227 My website, gilespcroft.com. 827 00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:05,570 I've got a, a, a newsletter, um, called The Daily Reminders, because I've seen 828 00:47:05,630 --> 00:47:10,010 that the biggest problem I think we face is that we forget our true nature. 829 00:47:10,010 --> 00:47:13,880 We forget all the time because we're human, because it's, because it's all 830 00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:17,450 hidden behind this amazing illusion that makes everything look true, 831 00:47:17,450 --> 00:47:22,010 that makes our version of reality look true, and, and we forget. 832 00:47:22,010 --> 00:47:26,180 So I've taken to sending pithy little daily reminders by 833 00:47:26,180 --> 00:47:27,770 email that people really love. 834 00:47:27,770 --> 00:47:31,540 So if you head over to my website, I think you, you get them, don't you, Rachel? 835 00:47:31,682 --> 00:47:31,922 I do. 836 00:47:32,162 --> 00:47:33,007 I enjoy them. 837 00:47:33,007 --> 00:47:34,327 I like these little pithy. 838 00:47:34,777 --> 00:47:37,267 It reminds us to make my own of little bit more pithy. 839 00:47:38,897 --> 00:47:41,242 Oh, well there is the occasional, very long one. 840 00:47:44,091 --> 00:47:45,021 Thanks for listening. 841 00:47:45,121 --> 00:47:49,581 Don't forget, you can get extra bonus episodes and audio courses along with 842 00:47:49,671 --> 00:47:54,501 unlimited access to our library of videos and CPD workbooks by joining 843 00:47:54,581 --> 00:47:59,041 FrogXtra and FrogXtra Gold, our memberships to help busy professionals 844 00:47:59,041 --> 00:48:02,011 like you beat burnout and work happier. 845 00:48:02,385 --> 00:48:05,905 Find out more at youarenotafrog.com/members.