Sherri Langburt: Hi, everyone! Welcome to Beyond the Boxx, Hashtag Influencer - the BabbleBoxx Podcast. I'm so excited to introduce to you today's guest, Kaijona "KJ" Wade who has worked with some of the most prestigious brands, including Spotify, Disney, Paramount Pictures and CBS. KJ is now the Associate Director of Influencer Marketing at Pub W - the bespoke media and data agency of Walmart. It's a pleasure to welcome you to our show today, KJ!

Kaijona "KJ" Wade: So excited to be here. Thanks for inviting me.

[Sherri Langburt: Of course! We're super excited to hear everything that you have to say. Very impressive. And I'm gonna start by saying, how on earth did you end up getting gigs in all the top entertainment companies from Spotify and CBS to Paramount and Disney?

I mean, I think number one, you've gotta apply. That's step one. for me, it's really about. One, you have to do the work, but also being open to opportunities. So I know when I saw the Spotify, this was something that was posted on a Facebook group. So you never know what opportunities are out there. And just being able to really take advantage of those and try it out as well as I would say, secondly, really making that wishlist.

So I started by doing. More of a self check. Like what is the things that I love? What are the things that bring me joy, comfort and passion? And those happen to lie within the realms of media. I knew that I loved listening to music. It didn't matter if they were in English or not. I loved movies and television shows.

So, it just started with: what were the top companies that were really just setting the waves? Who do it best? Make that wishlist and reach big. But then also be open to those new players who may be coming into this space, just as passionate, really making to look that splash and go from there. But when you have all of those things, you have your checklist.

You've seen that opportunity, you apply. I think the last step is just really being prepared. So how are you showing up to the interview? Have you researched the company? Have you looked and seen what they're doing lately? Are there any typical trip up questions for me? It's always - "What is your favorite...?" My mind scans.

I'm like, “okay, let me go through the catalog of 5,000 different songs to pick my favorite'” How can you pick your favorite? So finding what are those common questions that you think that are gonna come up whilst doing the research and really showing up prepared. I think. Opportunity meets that preparation and good things tend to happen most of the time with good intention.

Sherri Langburt: Agreed. And I think to your point with the Facebook, so much more now is someone's just posting in a local group - "Hey, I'm looking for someone" or "...my friend is looking for someone." Social has really helped with the recruiting and talent side of things.

Kaijona "KJ" Wade: And, and shout out to LinkedIn as well!

Some of the gigs I found recently - people are posting more. There's the opportunity to get more face time with recruiters or recruiters that will come to you in some cases. So, I think social media in general, it's really just evolved even in the way that we find these opportunities and for companies to recruit that talent that are already living there and using those platforms.

Sherri Langburt: Agreed, agreed. Specific to influencer marketing - you're kind of like me. I've been doing it for a long time and you've been doing it since when? 2015?

Kaijona "KJ" Wade: Yeah - 2015. I can't believe it's like you blink. It's maybe one social media year, but everything has just evolved and we're already back. I mean, what really struck a chord with me with influencers was this idea of the digital space. It's always changing - social media, it's always active. You have to stay on your toes.

So at that point in my career in 2015, I had been coming out of doing international marketing at this big movie studio. So I had loved social media; I'd already been watching YouTube. This was the height of Vine. People were coming out with these really comedic videos and capturing people. And so again, I either saw this opportunity or had been contacted about the opportunity, leaped at the chance to do it, and just really loved how free and entrepreneurial it felt. You know, you're surrounded by people who essentially built an audience by showing people their hobbies or showing people their talents and things that they were interested in.

So it's like the story of the little guy who can make it big just by sharing with others. I love that real spirit.

Sherri Langburt: That's how I feel. It's like, you know, oftentimes ", oh, influencers", but the sheer talent that we see - Everyone's in Hollywood now, like everyone is able to just show their talent and it could be everything from baking to braiding. It's everything. It's unbelievable.

Exactly! It's amazing - this thing where you see the world start to cross. I know people in the beginning, like, "oh, can influencers cross that threshold?" And for a long time, it seemed like it was difficult to break into traditional Hollywood but now, it's the influencers with established fan bases that are absolutely the ones that are bringing you those viewers.

And even if you think about the streaming platforms that have been inherently built on the internet and met for social and streaming, who are going to be the people that really lead your audience there and have that established fan base, like why not choose someone that, you know, builds that and brings that with them? It's really cool to see it all emerge, evolve, and just see the words combined with each other.

I mean, I wanted to be a writer, so all of a sudden, now I'm not a writer, but I work with all these people who basically are writers, which to me, that fulfilled that side of things.

There is the flip side - we've spoken about it, especially on agencies, is that being a talent casting lead, there's a lot of burnout and fatigue. So how do you prevent and avoid it?

Kaijona "KJ" Wade: I think this is probably one of the most important and prevalent questions that happens in our industry. Social media never sleeps. It's always on, and it's so easy to pour yourself into the work because you're working with people that also as caring and passionate as you too. So you want a win for them, but you're also winning because you want to put together these really great opportunities.

So this is something, even for me, I have to do my pep talks. Get that reminder from the mentors or family figures in your life. I think it's really about putting dates on your calendar, have your long weekend, listen to your body and feel how it feels. And so for me, my body tells me when I need to take a break or when it's time to book a trip to refresh energy and get in a new place.

That's how I show up best and can do good work. So I think my best work is done after a vacation. So I would just be that reminder - "let's just take the break", book that Friday or Monday or both (let the team know), but book it and take that time. You need to really refresh yourself.

Sherri Langburt: I need to write that down. "Take the break"

Kaijona "KJ" Wade: Exactly! Let this be the moment, and the reminder everyone - let's breathe for a minute and take that break

Sherri Langburt: Thank you! We have seen right now that there's a lot going on - every day is another issue, but one of the things I've seen at least since November of last year - before all this inflation - was influencer rates skyrocketing .

Why do you think that is? How do you deal with it? Do you think it's going to go away? What's going on?

Kaijona "KJ" Wade: I mean, I feel like these rates have gone up because brands and companies attention and knowledge that influencer marketing is really working, has gone up. So I think on the positive side, a lot more of these huge companies are taking notice that influencers are actually more effective ambassadors.

They're better than the TV commercials that you could be running because they're really people that are speaking to those audiences. And I think when you look at it from a symbolism perspective, when we're going on social media, we're having the opportunity to get a firsthand review. There are so many choices that we have to make every day about what to buy or what to do. So to be able to have someone give you that review and make that choice a little easier for you, it's just a lot more compelling.

So I think as brands and companies have started to notice this, there's a lot more investment and in turn influencers are allowed to really choose their price in some means, which can be good or bad, right? Because as these new platforms emerge, how do you value your talent when this is a brand new platform?

No one knows - there's no official defacto pay scale where we can all reference it that says "pay rate must be X". So it's really a matter of, I think things will continue to be fluid and it's always going to be because there's so many things that go into factoring in how you value any one person or the content that they create. So my best bet and my best practice that I've gone with has just been first asking talent: "what is your rate?" versus presenting it first. Let's bring it to the table, make it a conversation.

And the discussion then I think over time, as you gather that data, you are able to look and see the average rates amongst what we're seeing with those different pieces of content or the platforms that they're on. And hopefully brands can go from there, but I think it's always gonna be this nuance thing. or until someone who is that knowledge figure says, "we've done the research and this is the best practice", or "this is what we've seen on how you can best calculate that.

Sherri Langburt: I hope someone comes up with it, because it's all over the board. There's so many variables; static posts are different, each category is different, the type of content, the location of the influencer, etc.

Kaijona "KJ" Wade: I love to see it. I mean, it's one of those things that I've also recently come across. There's a company called Clara that is now opening conversations for influencers to share their pay rates and their experiences with brands. I know a few years back there was that emergence of 'Influencer pay Gap'. It was this new Instagram page where everyone was sharing what their rates were. And you saw that the community was there. There were these huge disparities, but that opens the conversation. So I think it's positive. Now, the fact that there are platforms or even companies really wanting to represent talent in a way for them to have that knowledge sharing and for people to at least be able to come to the playing field with some sort of research behind it.

I think all of that information will summize to hopefully give us some idea of how to price it out. But for right now, it'll continue to be that wild west. We don't know. We're all doing our best, but we want to make sure people are paid equitably. And that comes just with sharing that information.

Sherri Langburt: Agree. So I'm asking this from a personal perspective, because you work at one of the biggest digital agencies and on one of the biggest accounts - Walmart. And I wonder, what a day in the life for you at an agency looks like? I ask because you're writing us when we do work together and when we have, it's like at like 11 o'clock at night - what's it like?

Kaijona "KJ" Wade: Agency life for the win! You know, it's one of those things where I'd say every day is different, but again, really goes in line with why I loved the industry. I love the fact that things continue to change and that my day is different every day.

So on a daily basis, I would say the average day in the life for me is really checking on how are these different campaigns managing, going, and really encouraging those relationships with other agencies because we work with influence marketing agencies on these different campaigns.

Looking at the content quality control, supporting the team, you know, really it could even thinking about the future. "What's happening out in the world of social?", so that as we get briefed in, on new campaigns, we have an idea of what's out there, what's trending, or even meeting with new partners in spaces that may have emerged so that we're putting together the best plans.

And that's a lot in 24 hours. So who knows on a day to day basis, how you can balance it all. But I think it's one of those things where it's again, the opportunity is there. You can pour yourself in and there's so much impact that you can make, especially thinking about the resources that you have available to you.

Sherri Langburt: You brought up two amazing points! I see a lot of marketers pushing the QVC model, "let's get influencers to live stream" - social selling. We do influencer luncheons every few weeks. And they're like, ' we don't wanna do that. That's what we did on Facebook 10 years ago'. Do you think it's gonna fly? Do you think it's gonna fizzle out? Have you done it? Is it working? What's your take?

Kaijona "KJ" Wade: It's like you said, this model existed in the traditional world. Like QVC - it worked, it was effective. It still continues to be effective to this day. So it's always interesting to see how a format that worked in traditional goes into social.

And being that first mover, I think right now what we're seeing is a lot of people just haven't found the groove in terms of the product capabilities or the platform capabilities to make social selling, selling live, seamless. Like how are we integrating it into the apps that we're all already using or the websites that we're already visiting?

And from an influencer perspective, if that's not there, it can be one of those things like, "oh, I can put this in a video in 30 seconds and it's my full product". But, still there's that live connection opportunity where we start to shape the way that we do a social sell? Maybe it's thinking about instead," oh, how do we make this a QVC?,"

"how do we make this inherently social?" And I think that's where influencers will start to be a lot more creative. Someone has to always do at first, right? As more platforms are continuing to make this a feature that you can and building out different product capabilities, I see with YouTube, they've started integrating product carousel, which makes so much sense.

You see a video to whatever the influencers are showing. Those products are right there and it just elevates that experience, but makes it a lot more seamless to anyone who's watching. How often do we see someone doing those shopping hauls or trying on those different beauty products and we want it, they may be listing it out, but now that you have that visual version that directs to the cart to allow you to buy it, it's going to make that experience and that type of content, just a lot more easy and native for people to adopt.

I think right now it's a little early on to where we see different people doing it. I think it's effective, fun and going to continue growing. As more of the platforms start to see the success in that, they're going to develop those roadmap. To make those features and integrations even more exciting, and an interactive experience for anyone watching.

Sherri Langburt: Yeah. I think on QVC, you knew what you were logging in, it's like "I'm selling this..." and there's only 10. I think there has to be some kind of structure to run a show.

Kaijona "KJ" Wade: Mm-hmm - yes! You have to think about it. It's a whole production, right? You could be there and show the product, but I think that's level one. Level two is when it's knowing who you are and the kind of content you make normally.

How do you make this a show? What does that, in your voice, look like for you to do product selling? What is the type of products that you're looking to sell? That's really gonna pull people in. Is it something that you've created? The possibilities are endless, but I think one - we're doing it, it's there, it's happening, and it's successful. Two - we're going to see a lot more of those products and the platform features for live social selling, get better, get more interactive. And three just really relying on creators to be able to innovate within the format.

So the way that we see QVC, what does that look like in 2023 as we put this in the context of social? It's exciting.

Sherri Langburt: It is exciting!

Kaijona "KJ" Wade: And I think it's awesome that more brands are willing to be the first movers where in the past it was like, "let's wait until it gets big" and it's a proven success model or content format before we jump in. Now it's more like "let's be the first to do it". And that's something that I've loved with Walmart is they love testing and learning. They love being the first. And I think that really allows you to build that sense of rapport with those audiences that you wanna show up for them.

Sherri Langburt: And it might not be perfect.

Kaijona "KJ" Wade: Yeah. It might not be perfect, but it's relatable and it's a different way for that influencer to connect with their audience. It's helping you as well with your brand, showing that we want to be in the places and spaces that you are.

Sherri Langburt: Agreed. So the other part of this is that 2023 feels like tomorrow...

Kaijona "KJ" Wade: Every time - every year is flying by!

Sherri Langburt: So, what do you think - other than social commerce - what do you predict for 2023? If anything.

Kaijona "KJ" Wade: Hmm. My predictions, I think short form video will continue to grow. We will continue to see more and more platforms going to get in on it. We love YouTube shorts and how more and more brands are directing us to that form of snackable, scrollable, "keep going," discoverability content. I think podcasts and audio in general , is going to continue to get a lot more integrated into being seen as one of those media channels that can really be highly influential. And of course, new platform emergencies too. I'm always waiting to see what's next. I was just reading the other day about an app called BeReal. That's starting to get more popular; apparently gen Z is using it. And what it is is essentially you'll get a notification on your phone where you have just a few minutes to snap a photo and the idea is, you don't have time to get prim and proper. This is showing you as you are in that moment. And it's starting to catch on more and more. So I love that sense of, you know, the gen Z authenticity.

Let's keep it real. Really thematically continuing to follow through in 2023, especially in the apps that are being created, will definitely continue to be prevalent

Sherri Langburt: Awesome. So 2020, going back a little bit, you know, we've had a, 2.5 to 3 years where every day something else is like, "oh my god, this is happening". So you know, the tarmacs in London are burning and there's a heat wave. What do you think has happened this year?

Has anything happened that you had to put something on hold? And if so, how do you reshift? How are you managing with all these things going on from a media perspective?

Kaijona "KJ" Wade: Yeah. I think this is an interesting question because when you think about the nature of the channels we work in, it's always a place where you have to be agile. You have to be ready to pivot. So you're combining this world that's already "on", on a day to day basis, changing. With something big happening in the world. How does this happen? I think it requires a moment of pause and a moment of rethinking about how are you approaching the things that you're doing. So absolutely in 2022, like things are happening in regards to economic inflation.

And so you have to think about and re center yourself. I think as a moment to say, how do we support people in these times? How are we showing up and continuing to show up? Not going dark, but giving them the resources or the opportunities or how can we help inspire them during hard times and being there for them in a supportive manner and in a manner, that's also thinking about the lens that you wanna show up in the future. So it's how do you champion really both sides of wanting to have real perspectives and real opportunities to shape the way that you show up in the marketplace. Also doing an inspiratory check of your resources, to be able to say, "okay, well, if this is what we were doing last year, knowing what we know now, what are those foundational parts of us? And how do we want to show up and let that be the lead in regard to the marketplace?"

It's always fun because in social media, everything is always changing. So I think for us, it's just another day on the job.

Sherri Langburt: Yeah, it's very hard when you are like, "oh, well here's our plan", but your plan is changing minute-to-minute every time, every time.

Kaijona "KJ" Wade: Ugh, that's, that's the nature of the business, you know, it never is a dull moment! I love that about it, but it's also something that just from a brain exercise perspective, you're always staying on your toes in regards to strategy - having to keep up with what's happening. So that way you're bringing to the table information that's going to inform you and shape the right direction to go into. So that's something that, it's one of the pros and cons, but again, another big opportunity and I think looking through the lens of how you can support people in those times and really give them something , that's what you can do. That's the best thing you can do, right: is be there, show up and give support.

Sherri Langburt: Yes. Obviously you have a lot of experience, so I'm curious from you, is there a standout program with influencers that you worked on that was like, "wow, this was amazing. I loved it." Something over the span of the past few years that you've been working in this space.

Kaijona "KJ" Wade: I'm gonna narrow to 2022 and I have to give a shout out to BabbleBoxx! We worked on Walmart date Night together, #WalmartDateNight. I really loved this one because it was about love. It was about memory making and it was very customer centric for Walmart. We were able to take something that was already organically happening and talked about on social, extending that experience to influencers to give them these really great, beautiful themed boxes, by the way, that were gorgeous, and had different products. All in time for Valentine's day.

So it's that idea of how you continue to inspire people. It's beyond just the products themselves, but the memories that you can make with audiences and those connections that you can have with people. So being able to inspire people during that time, you just feel that positive sentiment and get such great viewership on the content that the influencers were creating.

It's a moment when you feel like you did something that was purposeful and actually made an impact. On the right track and definitely one of my favorite campaigns we've done this year!

Sherri Langburt: Thank you. Curious about the start of the whole phrase - it was one couple in florida, right?

Kaijona "KJ" Wade: It was a couple and they were on TikTok. The trend was to go around blindfolded, spin around and choose something from that movie bin. It's awesome to be able to look at things like TikTok or how your brand being mentioned and giving that call back to say, "we see you, we support you. We wanna continue championing those things and making those memories like happen."

Within your lives and with families, it's a sweet spot and it just really allows you to feel like you're doing a good thing, the right thing and supporting again, supporting that customer, supporting the people who are following you and showing up for you.

Sherri Langburt: We loved it too. It was a very special campaign for us as well.

My last question is one I always ask. So I'm going to throw it out there - name an influencer you love to follow, but hate to admit that you do.

Kaijona "KJ" Wade: Hmm. I mean, I think I stand behind everyone I follow, but there are some interesting ones in there. So let's see...

I would say one of the unique ones I watch on YouTube, it's called Cinema Summary and it's a YouTube channel that is this popular - how to beat / how to survive series that essentially breaks down the mistakes that are made in movies. Because we all know we're all saying like, "why did you do that? Why did you turn that corner?" Or in TV shows when people make frustrating mistakes, it looks at each of those. So take a Squid Games for example, and it looks at all of the games. It goes through the scenarios that happens and how you could have actually won that. So it's so entertaining and funny, but also well researched and thought through.

So I feel like I'm getting educated at the end. It's a really fun series. So I recommend it!

Sherri Langburt: Thank you, KJ. It has been so informative, helpful and enlightening speaking with you. Love everything you, you had to say and, wishing you all the best and success in everything that you're going to do.

Kaijona "KJ" Wade: Thanks, Sherri! it was great being on the show and working with BabbleBoxx . Thanks again for inviting me.

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