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On this episode of the Dudes and Dads podcast, we talk about navigating the holidays.

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You're listening to the Dudes and Dads podcast, a show dedicated to helping men be better dudes and dads by building community through meaningful conversation and storytelling.

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And now, here are your hosts Joel Damonna and Andy Layden.

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Andy?

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Joel.

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Hi.

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It's the holidays.

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It is the holidays.

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The holly, holly jolly.

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It's holidays.

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It's officially, I mean, Thanksgiving is past.

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But we see we're still in it now.

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And so we have the holidays.

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It's, you know, Thanksgiving passes, the music turns to Christmas and it's all Christmas.

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Andy, did you and I discuss earlier, maybe last month, did we have the conversation about the first, the first time this season that we heard Christmas music out in public?

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I don't, I don't think we did.

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So Christmas music started for me in October.

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Okay.

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It was the last, I want to say the last week in October, I was in a, where was I?

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Menards.

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That's where I was.

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And the Christmas music was playing.

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I don't be honest with you, Andy.

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I got a little bit salty about it because I really feel like I'm all for, I could probably do a mid November, mid third week, November Christmas music entry.

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Right.

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Totally fine.

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I, this, this season, I'm wondering, I'm wondering if other people feel the same way.

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This season in particular, I feel like we almost bypass Thanksgiving.

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I feel like, I think some Christmas things, as far as the marketing campaigns and all of that started sooner.

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I don't know if there's certain economics uncertainties that are looming where everybody's like, listen, let's get people, let's get in there.

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Let's get in the, the holiday.

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Sure.

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Let's get the spirit to the gift giving spirit.

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Let's do it now.

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So we can make the most of the season.

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So I have felt like we've been in the holidays a little bit longer than the, than the huge this year.

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Yeah.

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I, I had to agree.

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And I think it's interesting because I asked my kids and I actually asked this on one of the Friday dudes and dads podcast.

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Yes.

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Like when is, when is the Christmas, two really to start celebrating Christmas?

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And my, my son, Eli was very adamant that it was after Thanksgiving.

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Like let Thanksgiving be.

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Yes.

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And then you can celebrate all you want.

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He doesn't want to paint Thanksgiving.

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Right.

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You have to start with Thanksgiving first.

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Let Thanksgiving have its own time.

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And then you're able to break out the Christmas music as soon as you eat your turkey and say, right, you know, Friday happens.

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It's time for, for Christmas stuff.

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Right.

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We don't want Thanksgiving to become the middle child of holiday seasons.

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Right.

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We don't want to forget.

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And just pass right over.

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Right.

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That's what we're saying.

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Yeah.

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I wonder, I wonder for each of you listening, if you feel like, yeah, what's the appropriate timeline on the, let us know in the comments.

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Yes.

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I'd love to see what's, what's the appropriate time to start.

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I know for us, the, the, the hacking down of a Christmas tree usually happens right after Thanksgiving.

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We gave up hacking down Christmas tree.

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You're going on official.

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Yeah.

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And we did that a few years back and I don't think we're going to go back.

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Interesting.

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It was just one thing you, you set out the, the holiday priorities and you said, this is one thing that we can, we can change.

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Yeah.

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Well, I forget what the reasoning behind that was, but there was some specific reason that we decided we were going to go ahead and do, do a fake tree that year.

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I forget what exactly it was, but we went with it and the kids weren't happy, but every year it's just so much easier to do that.

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Yes.

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And it's not the same when I know that it's not the same, but it's less messy.

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Oh, for sure.

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And it's easy to have to go out in the cold and do it.

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Yeah.

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Do you, so the years that you did go and get a Christmas tree with the family, was this a, was it a jolly time?

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Was it a fun?

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Oh yeah.

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It was a good time.

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So you don't have some sort of like strange, no bad memories.

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No, no, no bad Christmas tree fell on one of your kids and nothing like that.

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Sap everywhere.

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I was, I don't know if you saw it.

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I'm our good friends, Brian and Brian and Kim, the Chris's, they went out and I mean, here's the deal.

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They're in a newer home that they built and their main living space has a very tall ceiling.

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This is part of their design.

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They wanted, they wanted big windows, lots of light in that.

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So tall ceiling.

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So this is, this means, and I'm still not entirely sure how they get this thing in, into the front door, but they have gone, they've gone on.

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Gone with a tall Christmas tree.

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And I think it was Kim that put up the, the Clark Griswold.

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It was like some, some, some name.

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Right.

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And I always just think about that scene when they, when they get the tree that's, oh, several feet too tall for the, for the house.

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And it just wedges it right in there.

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But yes.

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So you don't have that problem.

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No, no, I don't.

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We don't.

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It fits nicely in a box.

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That's nice.

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And, and I will say, I think there's a number of different ways.

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So we have, we go, we go both.

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Here's what we do because the setup of our house, our main living space is in the back of the house.

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And so you can't really display the Christmas tree in the big front window kind of situation.

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Like all, like you go down, you pull down our street and you're looking at all the houses and everybody's got their Christmas tree in the big front window.

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Right.

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You can all see it.

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We, that, that front room, as my wife will tell you is basically useless during the year.

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And so what we do is we've done the artificial tree that we decorate, put in the front.

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And then we have another real tree that we put in the back that when we are home for Christmas, Christmas morning, that's where we congregate is back there.

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Okay.

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So we've gone artificial.

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We were so Andy, we haven't been as brave as you apparently.

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We're, we're just not committing to the artificial.

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We say, no, it's got its place and that place is in the front window deceiving our neighbors about the legitimacy of our Christmas tree.

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All right.

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Well, as much as we want to talk about straight up Christmas.

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Oh, yes.

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We're going to be talking about surviving the holidays.

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But first support comes from Everince financial helping members invest in what lasts through financial services with impact.

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More at everince.com/michyanna securities offered through concourse financial groups, securities incorporated member FINRA S I PC.

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We want to wish a happy holidays to our friends at everants who are so gracious to give us the gracious gift of support every year and help make things happen on the show.

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Yep.

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So to everyone over at the everants offices, branches and everywhere across this great country of ours.

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We wish you happy holidays and thank you.

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Happy holidays and thank you.

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We're in the thankful, the thankful season.

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So Andy, hey, speaking of the holidays, Christmas trees and all the things that come along with this time of year.

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We want to discuss what it is that we do to maybe not even serve me, not just survive the holiday season, but thrive.

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But thrive.

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So I was thinking, you know, when I brought this topic up with you, the holidays can be tough.

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Not, you know, I've got a good family. You've got a good family, but there's a whole set of things that could happen.

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I mean, when you get married, you end up inheriting more family.

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You do.

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And so that can become an issue because either you don't like your family, your in-laws, or you don't get along with some specific person or just even scheduling.

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And for those of you that are listening, if there is a family member you don't particularly like, if you just drop their name in the comments,

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we just like to, it's an opportunity for us to talk about.

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No, no, no, but there could be a multitude of personalities.

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Right.

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And with those personalities come potential conflicts or things to navigate.

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Is that fair to say?

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Yeah. And so, you know, even down to the scheduling, you know, you may get along fine with your family,

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but scheduling can even be an issue because again, you know, your mom may want to have Christmas on Christmas and your,

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your in-laws may want to have Christmas on Christmas.

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And that makes it really hard because you end up trying to do multiple things at once.

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And it's just, yeah, sometimes it doesn't work.

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So how we're trying to figure, talk a little bit about those, like how to navigate the holidays, both, and not even just family-wise,

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but sometimes the holidays can bring up other issues too.

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Loss of, you know, family members, loss of jobs, like things like that.

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So that can be, that can be a tough, of tough time too.

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Yeah. So, Andy, I'm thinking about the early days of, and I wonder how this was for you,

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the early days when Jack and I were first married and you're starting to navigate the question of how will we handle the holiday schedule?

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Whose house will we go to on what days and when?

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And, and I know that was at times a topic of, oh, I don't know, a little bit of conflict or an opportunity for conflict, nevertheless.

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And so, I, you know, I proposed to our families a tug of war contest to help decide those things.

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It did not, it didn't work.

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It didn't go over well. People were not willing to engage in feats of strength in order to determine our schedule.

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So, here's what, and I will say this, maybe I've mentioned this before on the show.

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Our families are different in terms of how we celebrate certain holidays.

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And this goes like, how we do celebrations in general, I think, like everything from birthdays, anniversaries on down the list.

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Christmas, the whole deal.

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Different approaches to celebrating different levels of perhaps importance placed on different days or how it, however it goes.

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So, I think, I think that's one thing that we have to, that you have to address.

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I'm, I'm doing, doing premarital counseling for a couple right now.

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This, this is a converse, this is a conversation that comes up about who, you know, where will you be?

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Have you thought about this? Have you had, where will you be on these dates?

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Have you discussed this ahead of time?

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It seems to me, Andy, tell me what you think, that setting down, you know, the, the family, like our family, setting down and saying, okay, what is the strategy?

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What will be the game plan for this year?

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And then communicating that as early out as possible.

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Yeah, I think, I think that's key. And sometimes you don't really necessarily know what's going to be happening, but it is good to set down with your calendar as soon as possible to know, okay, these are the times.

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And I think what's important is you need to decide for your family, your specific holidays.

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So if, if as a couple, you know, so for instance, Julie and I, we need to sit down and go, okay, is there some time during these hours?

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During these holiday season that we have something specific that we want to do for our family.

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Yeah.

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And so, you know, because we have different traditions that we do that we've started, you know, we've been married almost 20 years now.

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And so we, we do have specific traditions that are incorporated with our, our family, our immediate family, not necessarily extended family.

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And so I think it's important to look at those things and say, okay, this is so actually this is a good, a good thing.

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This is something we just actually had to do.

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We, we had this season, we decided to go with to my parents' house for Thanksgiving.

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We're going to be gone over the Christmas time.

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So we decided for Thanksgiving, we're going to go to my parents' house.

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We're going to do family Christmas with them and my sister during that time.

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Okay.

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And, but however, we decided that we were going to, part of our tradition is to eat cinnamon rolls and stuff in the morning on Thanksgiving and watch the Macy's Day Parade.

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And, and delightful tradition.

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Right.

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And so we said, we're going to be doing that.

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And then we will come to, to your house.

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So it may be noon before we leave because we have things that we're doing.

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And, and so that was our tradition.

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And so we said, and said, this is what we're doing.

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Yeah.

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We will be there, but this is our, so I think it's important to sit down and say, as your, as you're planning a year out, prioritize, prioritize your family things first, your local family things first.

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And then go ahead and, and then go ahead and do that.

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And so our friend Tim, the law actually says, the holidays aren't busy enough for your family.

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Do suggest a kitchen renovation on top of everything else going on.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And that's true.

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Tim is doing that right now.

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And perhaps a large scale system.

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It's a replacement project at work.

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Yes.

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Tim's hitting both of the things.

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I'm doing that large system replacement at work and Tim's doing the, Tim, the kitchen renovations.

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It sounds like you've, you've really, you've really figured out how to bring joy to the holiday season.

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Seems, seems like that's the, that's the way to go.

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If you, well, you know what, Tim, let's, I think we should have a post holiday party for Tim.

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That's what we'll do.

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We'll just, we'll host.

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He's been really on the comments lately.

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Gosh, I love it.

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Tim, let's, we're going to send Tim a number one, a number one fan trophy.

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I don't have it yet, but I'll send it.

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Hey, I'm, yeah.

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So making that a prior, making the immediate family priorities, setting that out.

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Have there been Andy, I'm wondering things that sort of traditions and priorities that

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you set out one of two things.

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You set out early on in your relationship with you and Julius, you guys started having kids and all of that, that you had to change kind of midstream or partway through.

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Or were there new things that you introduced later, had to like realize you had to introduce later on that you didn't start, that you didn't start off with.

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00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:18,000
I mean, I think, I think, well, I mean, even just the Thanksgiving thing, I mean, that started fairly early, but especially it was, it was more enunciated after we had, you know, lost, lost our daughter.

225
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:19,000
Yeah.

226
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,000
It's similar name Macy, Macy's Day Pride.

227
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:23,000
So it may be seem silly, but that's something that we do.

228
00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:24,000
Yeah.

229
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:26,000
And so that was something that we added afterwards.

230
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:30,000
But I think, I mean, in general, like you don't really know as you get married, what's important.

231
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:38,000
That is, that is hard as you're first married because you do have, you know, you're trying to meld and make your own traditions.

232
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,000
And you're trying to please everybody.

233
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:41,000
Right.

234
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:42,000
You're trying to please everything.

235
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:57,000
But you're trying to meld and traditions that you may have done as a kid that your family had created, but then also things with your wife or spouse and their, you know, their family.

236
00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,000
And so you're trying to meld these things together.

237
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:03,000
And so, yeah, it's really, that can be a stressful time.

238
00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:06,000
And like you said, I think those are things that you need to talk about ahead of time.

239
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,000
And you may not even realize that you're getting into them.

240
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:09,000
And that's an issue.

241
00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:10,000
Yeah.

242
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:13,000
Because it's just not something you really think about until you've experienced it.

243
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:20,000
But I think it's important to go in and say, you know, try to try to realize, you know, your family has expectations.

244
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,000
My family has expectations.

245
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:26,000
And then we're trying to come up with these own, our own things as families, because it is important to do that.

246
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:27,000
Yeah.

247
00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:34,000
And so, I mean, yeah, we started out with, with, you know, not really any traditions and some things stick and some things didn't.

248
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:38,000
But yeah, I mean, I can't think of anything more specific off the top.

249
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:39,000
What about yourself?

250
00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:43,000
Well, I think, I think some things have evolved over time.

251
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:50,000
So, because one thing we haven't mentioned here is that when like in the holiday season, holiday travels involved, right?

252
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:51,000
Oh, right.

253
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:55,000
And I think I've heard it, I've heard on the news that there's more holiday travel this year.

254
00:16:55,000 --> 00:17:00,000
Like we're breaking holiday travel records this year, which is, which is interesting.

255
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,000
You know, if you're having a travel.

256
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:14,000
At the earlier, for the first several years of when Jackie and I were married and even just before Jackie and I got married,

257
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:18,000
Hurston family lived in Cleveland, Cleveland area.

258
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:28,000
And so we were, you know, Chris, there was a, there was a very big, you know, family Christmas celebration out in Cleveland.

259
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:37,000
And I think, you know, that was, which was a brand new experience to me because it's a much bigger family than I, than I came from.

260
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:45,000
And, you know, just a lot of tradition there, a lot of people, a lot of family, a lot of, you know, time connecting there and having to figure out,

261
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:56,000
okay, if, if that's important, you know, if that's important to those family members, then how, how is my, like, how's my immediate family or, you know, my side,

262
00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:59,000
like, how are we going to, to connect and how are we going to schedule that?

263
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:00,000
So that's what it came really in.

264
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:01,000
Important.

265
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:05,000
The early scheduling was like, okay, here's our work schedules.

266
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,000
Here's the family holiday schedules.

267
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:08,000
Here's when you guys are available.

268
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:09,000
Okay.

269
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:13,000
So we're going to leave, you know, we're leaving for Cleveland on this day.

270
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:22,000
So it means that, that, you know, we're going to be with you all guys, you know, you all, which my parents usually ended up being like Christmas, you know, Christmas Eve, sometimes Christmas day.

271
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:29,000
I think about three years ago when we did our first Christmas in San Diego, we were, what was it?

272
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:33,000
We were at my parents on Christmas day.

273
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:34,000
I think I'm right about this.

274
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:50,000
We were at my parents on Christmas day and then I said, we're, excuse me, they're there Christmas Eve through Christmas day left later Christmas evening to the airport and flew out and flew out, which I don't,

275
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,000
I don't know if any of you have traveled on, on Christmas day.

276
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,000
It's, it's not that bad actually.

277
00:18:55,000 --> 00:19:01,000
Like no one's out on the roads and, and it was a pretty, it was a pretty easy travel, travel day strange.

278
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:04,000
I never thought I would be flying on Christmas day, but we did that.

279
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,000
It was, it was great.

280
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:18,000
So we've, you know, we've always had to navigate that, but I think what was, what was it, what was good and what we're trying to do this, this year and this year's other complexities because my parents are, my parents are headed out to Colorado for the holidays.

281
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:22,000
We're, we are also headed, we're also doing stuff out of town.

282
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:30,000
So we've had to schedule our Christmas with them like in a week, like we're doing like early.

283
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:40,000
And so, yeah, it's just, it's, it's more conversations, it's more intentionality around, you know, around expectations and how we're handling that and doing all that.

284
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:43,000
And, and I'll say this, Andy, something I'm really, I'm actually excited about.

285
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,000
I have not mentioned this to you yet.

286
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:55,000
We've mentioned on this on the show before and kind of part of a new exciting thing in our, in our family.

287
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,000
So on my dad's side of the family.

288
00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:03,000
So a few years ago, we found out that I have a uncle that I did not, did not know about, right?

289
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:04,000
My uncle Barry.

290
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:15,000
And so since then, my Jill, my cousin, my newfound cousin and I, we've, we've chatted back and forth and Jill's son just graduated.

291
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,000
Son just graduated from high school this past summer.

292
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,000
So I went to the, I went to the open house and which was really, really cool.

293
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:26,000
I, and I, I have felt so welcomed and so like it's been a really, really good experience.

294
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:31,000
And, but like my dad and Barry have not gotten together yet.

295
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:35,000
Like, we've not met in person yet.

296
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:43,000
And so Jill reached out to me here just recently and said, hey, like let's get our families together.

297
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:46,000
Like this holiday season, if we can, if we can, like things are busy, right?

298
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,000
But let's see if we can do it.

299
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:58,000
So in a couple, let me see here, I get my, get my day straights in a, in a couple of weekends, we're, we're all going to do, we're going to meet up and do a big family dinner together.

300
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,000
And I'm really, really excited about it.

301
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:12,000
But it is, it's one of those things where it's like, we're, we're, we're, we're coordinating this, this get together.

302
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:19,000
And I'm not, I don't know what I, I don't, I think it's going to be great.

303
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:20,000
It'll be really, really good.

304
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:28,000
It's just, it's just one of, one more of those things where, you know, we're, we're bringing another, another moving piece.

305
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:29,000
Right.

306
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:35,000
Coordinating with, coordinating with new family members that we have not coordinated with before.

307
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:36,000
Sure.

308
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,000
So that's a, that's a new thing.

309
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:48,000
And, you know, I'm really hopeful that there's some, I think it'd be great if there was some new family tradition that, you know, you talk about introducing a new tradition.

310
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:56,000
Because, you know, it seems reasonable that when you find out that you have new family members that start a new tradition, maybe a new tradition would start.

311
00:21:56,000 --> 00:22:04,000
And we would find a way, you know, and whether it's now or, or at some point that we would be, you know, connecting more regularly.

312
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,000
So I really, I'm really hopeful for that.

313
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:07,000
I'm really excited.

314
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,000
So yeah, just a few weeks here, we're going to be, well, that's awesome.

315
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:11,000
Getting all of us together.

316
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:16,000
I think it's going to be something near 20 of us all hanging that together.

317
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,000
And I'm really looking forward to it.

318
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:19,000
So yeah.

319
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:29,000
So now talking a little bit about, about not just trying to navigate schedules because that can be, that can be obviously a big thing.

320
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,000
It can cause fights, right?

321
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:32,000
I mean, it can.

322
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:33,000
Yes.

323
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:43,000
And fights can be happening because you're getting together with family, which you may or may not get along with, you know, you may have sisters and brothers that you grew up with.

324
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:50,000
But now that you're not in the same household, you have different views, whether it be religiously or politically.

325
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:51,000
Those are the two big things, right?

326
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,000
I mean, those are the things that are going to start fights.

327
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,000
And who doesn't love to talk about those things?

328
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,000
A religious political fight, right?

329
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,000
And so like those are things that can be brought up.

330
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:14,000
So how do we navigate trying to get along with our siblings or aunts and uncles or things that are going to be people that are going to be with us during these holidays without causing huge giant fights and everyone leaving mad and give any tips for that?

331
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:18,000
Well, so here's my question, I think.

332
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:24,000
If our first interaction with that person, I think this is where it gets tough, right?

333
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:46,000
In the busy schedule that we have today, if our first interactions are there in that context, that holiday gathering context where we haven't sort of primed the relational pump a little bit ahead of time, I think that's where we're kind of inviting, you know, inviting, oh, how shall I say?

334
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:51,000
Just yeah, we're inviting unpleasant, unpleasant experiences into our gatherings.

335
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:55,000
So I guess you knew you mentioned priming the pump.

336
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:56,000
Yes.

337
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:57,000
How do you do that?

338
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:19,000
So are there ways that you can, whether it's throughout the year or leading into the holiday season, reach out to family members, send send cards and some a greeting for maybe for Thanksgiving or an early Christmas, an early Christmas card or things, things like that.

339
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:34,000
Let people know that you're glad that you're going to be able to spend time with them, that you're entering into that experience, that interaction with them with a sense of hopefulness versus what I think can be the case.

340
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:39,000
It's like, oh, geez, Uncle Ted's going to be there.

341
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:43,000
And last time the guy would not shut up about his new girlfriend.

342
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,000
And we all, you know, or whatever.

343
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,000
We almost strangled his new girlfriend.

344
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:59,000
Oh, what a, you know, is there, and then if that's just, if that's all that's in front of you and you're just like dreading the day, right?

345
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:10,000
Uncle Ted, if he's, you know, somewhat self aware or aware of the situation, it's going to pick up on your, it's going to pick up on some of your bad, your bad vibes, some somehow.

346
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:19,000
And I think you have the opportunity to at least, at least ahead of time in some way, shape or form.

347
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:25,000
We have social media, obviously we have, you can send a card, you can send a text, whatever it is.

348
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,000
Just to send, send them something from Amazon.

349
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:29,000
Perfect.

350
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,000
A nice gift.

351
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:43,000
And to do something a little proactively that, yeah, that just, that just maybe kind of, it greases the gears a little bit relationally ahead of time.

352
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:50,000
And so that you're entering into that, that season, that experience with a little bit of good, a little bit of goodwill.

353
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:51,000
I'm on top of that.

354
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:52,000
Okay.

355
00:25:52,000 --> 00:26:07,000
You, you don't have to prove your rightness about a particular topic or, or whatever it is at a holiday, at a holiday gathering.

356
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:08,000
Right.

357
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,000
And sometimes I don't think, sometimes I think that you are, cannot necessarily avoid that.

358
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:15,000
I mean, by that, I mean, you may not be the one bringing it up.

359
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,000
They're bringing it up to you or they're bringing it to somebody else.

360
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,000
Like when Uncle Ted goes like, so Andy, tell me, what do you think about Palestine?

361
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:22,000
Right.

362
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,000
I mean, those are one of those things you're like, all right.

363
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,000
It's, it's, it's for real.

364
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:27,000
Yeah.

365
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:28,000
Right.

366
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:29,000
Yeah.

367
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:40,000
I mean, but, but yeah, so those things you can't necessarily avoid, but I think some of the things that you can do is just kind of be aware of when topics may be going down that place that you are not comfortable with.

368
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:41,000
Yeah.

369
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:50,000
And usually there's places you know, you can excuse yourself around, you can be like, Hey, like I'm going to real quickly be helping clean the dishes up or.

370
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,000
I need some of that gas station cheese.

371
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:53,000
Right.

372
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:54,000
Or a green bean casserole.

373
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:55,000
Right.

374
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:56,000
Yeah.

375
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:57,000
Who doesn't want green bean casserole, but.

376
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:58,000
Let's hear it for green bean casserole.

377
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:05,000
But I mean, you can, you can be aware of the conversations that are happening, especially if this is not the first time that these are going to happen.

378
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:06,000
Yeah.

379
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:14,000
When you know those people in your group, right, that are going to come and there's probably going to be strife between the two of you or you and somebody else or they are somebody else.

380
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,000
So you know this in the past.

381
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:20,000
And it's not like, Oh, Uncle Ted just came and he's never fought before, but he's going to start bringing up fights.

382
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:21,000
Right.

383
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,000
Like he's Uncle Ted is sorry, Ted, Uncle Ted, we're picking on you.

384
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:25,000
Yeah.

385
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:31,000
If all the Ted's out there, we're sure you're, you're non contentious people and this was just the name that I picked.

386
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:32,000
So sorry.

387
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:36,000
But you know, we know that Uncle Ted is going to be, is going to be a fighter.

388
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:41,000
And so we're going to go ahead and maybe make sure that we're not in a room alone with him.

389
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:48,000
Or if there's a conversation going on with Ted, that there are other people that you could turn and just have a conversation and not make it awkward.

390
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:58,000
But you know, if you're in a big group, you could turn and say, so Sally, you know, how's how's the kids hopefully you're not bringing up something that's going to have two fights going on.

391
00:27:58,000 --> 00:27:59,000
Right.

392
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:03,000
But yeah, yeah, those are things you can be aware of.

393
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:14,000
But a little bit of again, a little bit of planning, a little bit of a little bit of strategy ahead of time goes that can go a long way and all of those things.

394
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:25,000
And also just recognizing on top of this, we were talking about family relational things, you know, there's also, there's also can be can be sadness and loss and right in this time here.

395
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:37,000
You're reminded of the person that's not at the table with you, you know, that that has its own emotions and its own particular conflict.

396
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,000
I know, you know, for us.

397
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:50,000
So for my family, when Jackie's grandma James passed away, that was sort of the transition.

398
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:57,000
I think everyone understood this and I because I had asked about it had time like, what will Christmas look like?

399
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:09,000
And it was kind of a transition point in what Christmas looked like where, you know, the grandma James and her kids and then their families, we all came together.

400
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:17,000
Well, now those families have gotten bigger because the the cousins are now adults and have kids and families of their own.

401
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:24,000
And so things have kind of they've reformed, you know, after years of after years of transition.

402
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:30,000
And, you know, there was a there was a definitely a sense of grief and a loss over that.

403
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:34,000
And yet it was just kind of a natural, it was a natural thing that happened.

404
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:39,000
I think it was done in a pretty I mean, from my perspective was done in a pretty healthy way.

405
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:56,000
And now I'll say like, as as stressed out as I sometimes felt about kind of the whole like as specifically as all of our kids got older and everything it meant of like,

406
00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:09,000
getting all of them together and tracking out there and like trying to manage all of those kids and being in the small house and being feeling kind of nervous about all that stuff like all those kids at grandma's house and all of that.

407
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:14,000
Like, I will say, I like there's a definitely an element of every Christmas.

408
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,000
I really miss I really miss part of that.

409
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:21,000
No, you know, and I and I and I was just I'm a I'm an in line Mary. I married into that experience.

410
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:28,000
I think for for Jackie and her cousins who did that since they were young kids, I, you know, I can only imagine.

411
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,000
I think that's that was a significant change.

412
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:42,000
So there's some there's some sort of version of that for, you know, the holidays easily mark reminders for us of like things are not the same as they were previously.

413
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:46,000
Sure. And you're kind of reminded of that and you reflect on that each year.

414
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,000
And some of your traditions can change during that time.

415
00:30:49,000 --> 00:31:00,000
You can there, you know, if you're used to going to grandma's house and grandma can no longer do that or, you know, there's a loss of that, even if Graham was still around.

416
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:01,000
Right. Yeah.

417
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:10,000
There's still a loss and a grieving of of the ability for grandma to not be able to do the big giant party at her house where she used to.

418
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,000
Or if she's gone, those things may look different.

419
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:22,000
You know, you may end up having to go into the cemetery and visit visiting grandma's grave on Christmas or, you know, it just may look different than it did before.

420
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:26,000
And so there's always, yeah, grief is a tough one too, because grief changes holidays.

421
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,000
I mean, grief changes everything. Right.

422
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:32,000
Yeah. And so those are, yeah, that's something that you need.

423
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:36,000
And you may not even realize that it's going to happen.

424
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:43,000
I mean, that's one of the things with grief, right? It usually hits at the least expected part.

425
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:50,000
Yeah. There'll be some, there'll be something in the holiday process and experience that will trigger a memory will trigger it will trigger a thing.

426
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:55,000
Right. And it's not something that you can even usually prepare for, because usually you don't know that that's coming.

427
00:31:55,000 --> 00:32:02,000
Yeah. That's coming. And so, yeah, it's just, it's something that's going to change.

428
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:10,000
It could change your thing. And then not only that, but you have to deal with the fact that everyone's grief is different.

429
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:22,000
And so if you're getting together for the holidays, you may, you may be having a tough time or and your sister may not or your sister may be and you may not.

430
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:31,000
So there's a thing that you need to be aware of and you need to be conscious, conscious of as you're navigating these holidays, because it's something that you don't know what it's going to strike.

431
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:45,000
Grief strikes at any time. But at the same time, you need to like, yeah, be prepared for that and also give people their space and their, what they need to be.

432
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:54,000
Because, you know, it may be that all of a sudden you look in Susie's no longer at the house, she may be standing outside because she can't deal with the conversation that came up that you may not even be knowing about.

433
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:55,000
Right.

434
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,000
Because she may have been dealing with grief.

435
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:11,000
Yeah. So Andy, let me ask you this. As you guys are getting ready and anticipating all of your holiday things and we're thinking about and anticipating ours.

436
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:17,000
What are you looking forward to most between now and in the new year?

437
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:46,000
Oh, that's good. I don't know. I think at the older I get, the more for me emotion I get about Christmas in general. And I think part of that is due to the loss of my daughter and knowing that I'm thankful for Christ coming and providing a way so we can be in heaven.

438
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:55,000
And part of that is just me getting older and realizing like the grand, well, I mean the grandeur of Christmas and like what it actually is all about.

439
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:56,000
Yeah.

440
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,000
And so, yeah, that's for me. How about you?

441
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:13,000
Yeah, I think if I'm real honest, number one, I'm enjoying, I'm looking forward to celebrating Christmas and the holidays.

442
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:22,000
Like as far as like a church service experience is concerned where I get to go and I have zero responsibility for making any of it happen.

443
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,000
So that's a little bit of my like a little bit of my pastor.

444
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:26,000
Sure.

445
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:42,000
Like I really want, I'm really trying to, and this is something I want to, I'm just, I'm trying to invite my family into what I want. This is, now that we've gotten through Thanksgiving, it's probably the next kind of one of my intentional family conversations is like,

446
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:55,000
like, I do really want to find, find rest in this Christmas season.

447
00:34:55,000 --> 00:35:04,000
I think just as you put it, I think to really keep the main thing the main thing.

448
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:11,000
I, you know, I were,

449
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:23,000
you know, Jackie and I have lots of conversations about, again, it's a logistics conversation. It takes, you know, about like the gifts and things like that. And we're, because we're celebrating this year, we're celebrating Christmas away from our home.

450
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:40,000
Like we've got to ship some things, places or have them delivered elsewhere or whatever and all this, you know, and not a, not a super big deal, but I within within myself and it's a challenge for myself of really just saying like, okay, if we do all of this,

451
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:54,000
and, and my, my children are not crystal clear on the fact that this, that this is ultimately a celebration about, you know, the greatest gift that we could be given.

452
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:55,000
Right.

453
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,000
Then we, then we missed it.

454
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:58,000
Right.

455
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:09,000
And yeah, I hear you, Andy, it's like, I'm, I'm a deal, the older, right, the older I get, I, it really does like I'm, I'm trying to slow.

456
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:22,000
I'm trying to slow all of this down. Right. And, and I think, like, I just cannot, I cannot believe another year has gone, like another year has gone by.

457
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:36,000
It seems like really just yesterday we were putting the tree up. Right. I mean, I have, like, I have, I have, it seems like my memories of each Christmas, strangely enough, are like more, like, yes, or more vivid, like my memory about the previous holiday is more vivid.

458
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:51,000
Because it's just, it's just like, we just did this. And, you know, I don't know. For those of you that listen to the show, you know, I'm, I quickly approaching 40, like this is, this is my, this is my other, other thing that's in the background.

459
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:52,000
You're getting old.

460
00:36:52,000 --> 00:37:01,000
Yeah. Right. It's, we're going to cross that threshold. And, you know, I just look at that and go, man, how did I personally get here so, so quick?

461
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:12,000
You know, Andy and I talk all about where I'm going to have just not too long here. You know, Aaron just turned, just turned 14.

462
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:21,000
Just I is going to be 13 here soon. Like I now tune teenagers and we're looking at, you know, you've crossed this threshold. I'm looking at high school next year.

463
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:28,000
I had this thought of like, we're going to be looking for a car for Aaron in like a year. Like, like, I don't know.

464
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:33,000
This particular one, this particular, this particular holiday season and Christmas, it's like, it's getting it.

465
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:41,000
It started getting me, but, but all of that to say, like, I want to, like just keeping the main thing and having the conversation about, about the main thing.

466
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:53,000
And that's what I would hope for any of you listening. That would be my hope and my prayer for you, like whatever this holiday, wherever you're going.

467
00:37:53,000 --> 00:38:04,000
I mean, we don't talk about planning, wherever you're going, wherever you're traveling, whoever you're spending time with, I hope you find yourself.

468
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:12,000
Yeah. In remembering the story, remember the story, remember the original story of why we're doing any of this in the first place, right?

469
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:22,000
And, and that would be something that would, yeah, I would, I would just love, I would love to know and it's maybe some way that you guys can interact with us.

470
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:32,000
Like, I would love to see how you're remembering Christmas in light of, in light of Jesus.

471
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:37,000
Yeah. Yeah. That would be, that would be super cool. We'd love to see that and hear that story.

472
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:41,000
Let us know. Definitely send us a message on Instagram, on Facebook, Twitter.

473
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:47,000
Yeah. And whether that's like, you know, a church service or what you're doing, things you do as a family.

474
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:57,000
I know some, some families read, you know, read the, the, from the Gospel of Luke and, you know, read the Nativity story, all of that.

475
00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:08,000
But just, I mean, I would say like, that is, you want to make an investment in your kids, you want to make the holiday like kind of like have intentional markers down in the holiday season.

476
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:12,000
I think that's, that's the way to go. That's the way to go. That's, that's something that you can do.

477
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:19,000
And I'm going to, I'm going to do my best. I know you guys will too, to, to have that front and center.

478
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:25,000
But yeah, just to, to rest in this season and all the rest and Christmas and the holidays.

479
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:36,000
Don't always. Yeah. Those words feel like they don't go together, but especially if you're like our friend, Tim, who's doing a kitchen renovation.

480
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:37,000
God bless you.

481
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:46,000
So that's the end of this episode, but we are, we normally do, we rest as dudes and dads podcast or the Christmas holiday.

482
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:52,000
So we may have one more episode here before the beginning of the year, but we do usually take December off.

483
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:56,000
And we usually put something out on the social, we'll do, you know, something on the social medias.

484
00:39:56,000 --> 00:40:00,000
But if you don't see an episode from us, it's not that we're gone. We're not dead.

485
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:06,000
We just usually take Christmas off so that way we can focus on our families and what's important.

486
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:10,000
Not that you're not important, but you are. You are very important.

487
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,000
Just not as important.

488
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:18,000
But no, but we, so that we can focus on our, on our family and Christmas and things.

489
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:24,000
So we, we look forward to when, when we come back.

490
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,000
Yeah. And is it going to be season six for us?

491
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,000
It will be season six.

492
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:34,000
Golly Pete. So that you want to talk about time flying guys. That's how it happens right there.

493
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:44,000
Golly. Hey, as always, you can head over to dudesanddadspodcast.com for all episodes, both past, present, but not future.

494
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,000
The show notes and all the goodies over there.

495
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:50,000
And you can follow us on Instagram.

496
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:51,000
Nice.

497
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:52,000
Facebook.

498
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:53,000
Yes.

499
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:54,000
And X. I'm going to say X.

500
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:55,000
Atta boy.

501
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:56,000
We're going to make the transition.

502
00:40:56,000 --> 00:41:03,000
Dudes and dads podcast@gmail.com is a great place to send us emails, suggestions for future shows, all of your commentary.

503
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:04,000
We love it. We thank you for it.

504
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:09,000
And, uh, hey, make sure you jump over on the iTunes, the Apple podcast.

505
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:12,000
Why do I keep saying that Apple podcasts, Spotify, like share.

506
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:13,000
It's helpful.

507
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:14,000
It is.

508
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:15,000
Okay.

509
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:16,000
Until next time.

510
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:17,000
We wish you grace and peace.

511
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:18,000
Yeah.

512
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,580
(upbeat music)

513
00:41:20,580 --> 00:41:21,620
(ding)

514
00:41:21,620 --> 00:41:31,620
[BLANK_AUDIO]