1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,880 Kevin Mako: Hello, product innovators. Today we learn from a 30-year sales process expert on how to build an easy system 2 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:09,540 Kevin Mako: to start selling your product to wholesalers, distributors, and retail stores. 3 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:22,100 Narrator: You're listening to the Product Startup Podcast, the show that helps bring your product idea to life by chatting with successful inventors, 4 00:00:22,500 --> 00:00:30,780 Narrator: product developers, and hardware industry professionals. Our goal here is to get to the bottom of what makes a product successful, from initial 5 00:00:30,780 --> 00:00:39,820 Narrator: idea to getting your product on store shelves. We're taking you step by step to build a functional product and scale your product business. 6 00:00:40,060 --> 00:00:46,660 Narrator: Hosted by Kevin Mako, one of North America's leading experts on hardware development for small product businesses. 7 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:48,760 Narrator: Now, on to the show. 8 00:00:50,260 --> 00:00:58,520 Kevin Mako: Welcome back, everyone. Today I'm very excited to introduce Scott Brogan to the show. Scott is the founder of Company Expert, a sales process consultancy that has worked with over 9 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:05,860 Kevin Mako: 100 emerging brands. He has spent over 30 years in sales, including working for seven. Fortune 500 companies in sales capacities. 10 00:01:06,420 --> 00:01:12,560 Kevin Mako: Today, Scott is going to share some valuable knowledge in how inventors, startups, and small manufacturers can start to build a process around identifying 11 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:20,880 Kevin Mako: partner companies to sell to, preparing how to give your pitch, and how to improve your sales process over time to rinse and repeat. Now, on to the episode. 12 00:01:22,350 --> 00:01:23,550 Kevin Mako: Hey, Scott, welcome to the show. 13 00:01:23,830 --> 00:01:30,270 Kevin Mako: Thanks. Thanks for having me, Kevin. I'm excited to be here. Well, I really appreciate you coming on the show today to talk about sales, but specifically 14 00:01:30,270 --> 00:01:39,250 Kevin Mako: about pounding the pavement. How do you actually get the bowl rolling to start making your first sales as a new hardware brand. Whether you're putting your first product 15 00:01:39,250 --> 00:01:47,750 Kevin Mako: to market or you're a smaller brand that's releasing a new product to market, at some point, you'll come across the concept of selling your product B2B, either through wholesalers, 16 00:01:47,890 --> 00:01:53,130 Kevin Mako: distributors, resellers, et cetera. There is a science and a process that's worked for well over 17 00:01:53,130 --> 00:02:02,630 Kevin Mako: 100 years, if not further, that really can engineer that to make it work well and work in your favor, even if it's your first time ever trying to sell your product to one 18 00:02:02,630 --> 00:02:11,130 Kevin Mako: of these entities. So Scott today here is to talk about that process. He's quite literally written the processes on this and has all sorts of things in and around the space. 19 00:02:11,270 --> 00:02:13,430 Kevin Mako: But I'll leave it to you, Scott. How did you get to where you are today? 20 00:02:13,490 --> 00:02:20,150 Scott Brogan: And what are you working on with sales processes now? Yeah. So thanks again for having me here today. And I'm excited to talk with everybody. 21 00:02:20,330 --> 00:02:26,610 Scott Brogan: And I know when you think of the topic sales, it's very intimidating for a lot of people. It's like giving a public speech, right? 22 00:02:26,730 --> 00:02:33,470 Scott Brogan: Some people would rather be at a funeral then to get up and talk in front of people. But once you build a system, a process in place, 23 00:02:33,470 --> 00:02:40,950 Scott Brogan: it becomes part of your conversations when you have your discussions with your prospects and it becomes part of the way you do business. 24 00:02:41,170 --> 00:02:50,810 Scott Brogan: So what we're going to do today is really talk about what is that process, what is that system to put in place to make you feel at ease in having consultative 25 00:02:50,810 --> 00:03:00,750 Scott Brogan: discussions with your clients and something that I've done for the last 30 years and working with engineering companies, professional service firms, product firms, 26 00:03:01,550 --> 00:03:08,990 Scott Brogan: and really helping coach them to being successful at having conversations with the clients because if you want to be 27 00:03:08,990 --> 00:03:17,250 Scott Brogan: successful, you have to be yourself, but at the same time, you have to be consultative. You have to be a solution driver. 28 00:03:17,390 --> 00:03:27,050 Scott Brogan: You have to try to identify problems and help your client solve problems. And that's what you do every day. Sales is not, it's just an extension of a lot of what you do every day. 29 00:03:27,270 --> 00:03:30,230 Scott Brogan: And I'm here to kind of talk about how you can kind of build that 30 00:03:30,230 --> 00:03:33,410 Kevin Mako: practice into your own conversations with your prospect. 31 00:03:34,460 --> 00:03:40,740 Kevin Mako: That sounds great, Scott. Much appreciated. It's such an important topic because it's one of the very powerful avenues to sell product. 32 00:03:40,860 --> 00:03:48,020 Kevin Mako: When you first think of selling a new invention idea, one of the first things that comes to mind is, okay, well, I'm going to sell direct a customer via Shopify, website, whatever, 33 00:03:48,300 --> 00:03:54,400 Kevin Mako: or I'm going to sell via Kickstarter, Indiegogo, via crowdfunding campaign, or I'm going to partner with another brand and they're going to sell it. 34 00:03:54,440 --> 00:04:00,360 Kevin Mako: There's another big avenue, which actually takes up the vast majority of physical product sales in this world, and that's selling. 35 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:06,280 Kevin Mako: to wholesalers, distributors, resellers, et cetera. There's a number of different names, and depending on the category that you're in, 36 00:04:06,460 --> 00:04:10,300 Kevin Mako: they may be coined differently, but it all comes down to selling to a business, 37 00:04:11,020 --> 00:04:18,100 Kevin Mako: another entity that then takes your product and sells it onwards. It's a number of different deal structures there, but the point is, how do you get in front of these customers? 38 00:04:18,500 --> 00:04:25,000 Kevin Mako: And how do you get them to buy your product versus somebody else's product? And that's what we're here to talk about today in terms of process. 39 00:04:25,220 --> 00:04:30,500 Kevin Mako: So, Scott, let's get going from the early phase. How do we start building that plan or what do you really want to? 40 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:35,000 Kevin Mako: start with when you're coming up with the idea of selling the product 41 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:42,140 Scott Brogan: to another business to business entity. Right. And the partners that you just described, we call it a leverage play because 42 00:04:42,140 --> 00:04:50,380 Scott Brogan: you're really leveraging the credibility of those partners, right? Because you've got a new product you're launching. You don't have a brand yet. 43 00:04:50,840 --> 00:04:57,780 Scott Brogan: So you really leverage your brand of the partners that you're trying to sell to. And it's a great way to kind of accelerate your growth very quickly 44 00:04:57,780 --> 00:05:04,880 Scott Brogan: until you establish that brand and be able to go out and directly sell, it's a great way to kind of jumpstop your business. 45 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:13,500 Scott Brogan: So one of the things you really have to think about, and I would say this for virtually everything across your business, is you've got to start with a goal. What's the 46 00:05:13,500 --> 00:05:21,280 Scott Brogan: purpose of making the call? Who do you want to reach, right? So what are the goals that you want to achieve? How much do you want in product sales? 47 00:05:21,300 --> 00:05:28,320 Scott Brogan: What do you want to do for building a relationship? What's the goal that you have in the outreach. I hate cold call. 48 00:05:28,620 --> 00:05:37,100 Scott Brogan: I absolutely hate call call because most of the time they don't add value. They're poorly structured. They're not well thought out. And I'm talking 49 00:05:37,100 --> 00:05:41,960 Scott Brogan: with somebody that doesn't understand my business. And what we're trying to do is to turn that on a test, right? 50 00:05:42,260 --> 00:05:49,120 Scott Brogan: And for you to have a constructive call, a call that can add value, and the client knows why you're calling them. 51 00:05:49,300 --> 00:05:59,200 Scott Brogan: And it really starts out with having a purpose of the call, right? Why are you call. So you've got to write down your purpose, your goals that you want to achieve, and then 52 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:06,880 Scott Brogan: you've got to really spend some time in thinking about who do I want to call, like what type of companies do I want to call? 53 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:16,800 Scott Brogan: Because the conversation for one company is going to be totally different than a conversation for the next. And clearly, as a salesperson, you really want to understand 54 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:21,880 Scott Brogan: the companies. You want to understand who the competitors are. You want to understand who they 55 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:30,800 Scott Brogan: distribute through, you want to understand their strengths and weaknesses, some opportunities and threats, but really having a conversation with them that is well 56 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:40,060 Scott Brogan: informed before you even make the call. So understand who your target market is. What is that collection of type of companies that you want to go after? 57 00:06:40,220 --> 00:06:49,720 Scott Brogan: So think about the technical term, it's pharmacics, but the size of the company, are they a distributor, are they a retailer, what's the 58 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:58,960 Scott Brogan: revenue the company is? Where is the company located. So identifying that collective group of companies that you believe your message is 59 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:06,500 Scott Brogan: going to best resonate with. That's your target market. So what are those group of companies that you want to approach with a goal that you put in mind? 60 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:14,440 Scott Brogan: And once you've identified the companies, you really have to talk about the who. Who within those companies should you be calling? 61 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:21,460 Scott Brogan: You're not going to be getting any decisions out of the IT department, right? So who within those 62 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:29,660 Scott Brogan: companies are the key influences or decision makers that are going to purchase your product that you just developed, for example. 63 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:39,220 Scott Brogan: So you've got to identify the right individuals and you need to kind of document what you think their pain points are. Why is your product going to appeal to 64 00:07:39,220 --> 00:07:44,980 Scott Brogan: them? What are some objections you think you may get to the sale of your product? So really, 65 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:55,220 Scott Brogan: you've got your goal, you've got your collection of companies or target market. And then within the target market, who are the two or three individuals that 66 00:07:55,220 --> 00:08:03,560 Scott Brogan: are going to have influence on the purchase of your product? And remember, there are multiple in B2B sales, typically a B2B sales 67 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:09,920 Scott Brogan: for larger companies is upwards of seven people that are involved in a purchasing process. 68 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:19,400 Scott Brogan: So you have to kind of identify what are the ones that I need to reach out with out to. And it's not just the CEO. It's not just the purchasing manager. 69 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:28,160 Kevin Mako: You've got to identify who are those key influence? And that's critical because you've got to kind of shape your message for each one of those influences. 70 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:38,060 Kevin Mako: That's interesting that you mentioned that there's generally seven key individuals to complete a purchase decision within, you know, a typical distributor, 71 00:08:38,260 --> 00:08:39,860 Kevin Mako: wholesaler, that type of an organization. 72 00:08:40,680 --> 00:08:47,080 Kevin Mako: So for somebody who's trying to put this information together, first of all, building out their goal, obviously, that's something they can do internally, they can write it down. 73 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:52,840 Kevin Mako: You've got a ton of resources that we'll talk about towards the end of the show on how to actually build out these goals and strategies. 74 00:08:53,220 --> 00:09:01,180 Kevin Mako: But just in simple terms, to move forward, if you're looking at figuring out who the companies are and figuring out who the people are, this is generally just done via Google. 75 00:09:01,580 --> 00:09:09,600 Scott Brogan: There's not really special tools or instruments you need between Google and LinkedIn. You can probably access at least the basic version of a lot of the information that you're 76 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:15,600 Scott Brogan: talking about here. Yeah. And I think the easiest way to look at it is think of you going for an interview with a company. 77 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:23,380 Scott Brogan: You're doing a lot of the same thing you should be doing if you were interviewing the company. All of this stuff is available. You can go on LinkedIn. 78 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:25,160 Scott Brogan: You can go on Google. 79 00:09:25,660 --> 00:09:33,440 Kevin Mako: You can go on Class Door to find out a little bit about the culture of the company. But all of the things you would do if you're going for an interview, you'd do the same thing 80 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:42,140 Kevin Mako: and get prepared for that call with a client. That's a great insight and an easy way that anyone with your hardware product can start doing this preliminary research. 81 00:09:42,380 --> 00:09:48,580 Kevin Mako: So, Scott, let's assume that we've done the research. We've identified the targets. We know what companies we want to go after, at least in the beginning. 82 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:52,560 Kevin Mako: You can, and here's the other thing about this as well. This could be a process that's built over time. 83 00:09:52,900 --> 00:09:58,900 Kevin Mako: You don't have to do this and have your list completed overnight and expect that that's your full and final list that you're going to sell to. 84 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:08,760 Kevin Mako: Start with your first 10 or your first 20, get used to the process of doing research and continue to increase the quality of research as you go and learn from prior things that 85 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:13,580 Kevin Mako: are happening to develop your, essentially your CRM system, your customer relationship management system. 86 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:21,200 Kevin Mako: One way or another, even if you're starting just on a notepad, you're building a set of data about prospective customers that improves and is added to 87 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:26,220 Scott Brogan: over time. So let's assume we have at least our starter list. We've got a bunch of people that we want to reach out to. 88 00:10:26,560 --> 00:10:30,820 Scott Brogan: How do you approach the next steps of getting in front of those folks? 89 00:10:31,660 --> 00:10:40,180 Scott Brogan: Yeah. So, and this is obviously the most challenging aspect because people generally don't like co-calls and there are specific 90 00:10:40,180 --> 00:10:47,040 Scott Brogan: strategies you would use in dealing with administrative systems, leaving voicemail messages and things of that nature. 91 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:55,520 Scott Brogan: I think the most important thing to remember is the people that you're reaching out to, it's part of their job to really 92 00:10:55,520 --> 00:11:03,480 Scott Brogan: understand what products are available. If you've got the next greatest product and you ignore that and it goes to a competitor, 93 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:13,140 Scott Brogan: that's not a sign of success for the person who didn't take that call of yours. So part of their role, part of their job is to find out what new products are available. 94 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:20,320 Scott Brogan: But part of your role in being successful is how do you position that product within that 95 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:30,000 Scott Brogan: client's portfolio or relative to other complementary products or some people could consider competitive products within the portfolio. 96 00:11:30,340 --> 00:11:35,920 Scott Brogan: So if you're selling a comparable product, well, why is it different than the one they already have? 97 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:45,500 Scott Brogan: What's the compelling reason that I should listen to your story because I've already got one of these? So you've got to be able to answer those type of questions. 98 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:54,360 Scott Brogan: And the only way that you can do that is do the research that we talked about. But clearly having a strong and compelling proposition to say, 99 00:11:54,740 --> 00:12:02,720 Scott Brogan: I realize you've got this product. I think there's some other product. I think the reason why you want my product is because it complements 100 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,900 Scott Brogan: this offering or because it fills a niche where I 101 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:13,660 Kevin Mako: I think this other product doesn't fill. So thinking strategically, if you were sitting in their feet and somebody gave you a call 102 00:12:13,660 --> 00:12:22,220 Kevin Mako: and selling their product, how would you put that product within their portfolio? What are the easiest things that I can see and how to do that? 103 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:29,460 Kevin Mako: Of course, always writing these things down, but as you're doing your research on a prospective company, you're looking for both their pain points and their opportunities. 104 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:36,460 Kevin Mako: Simply think of how your product either solves their pain points and creates opportunities for them and or, ideally both. 105 00:12:36,740 --> 00:12:44,260 Kevin Mako: Because if you can go in with the research done, have that on paper, and have what you believe is your opening opportunities and your opening pain points that you're 106 00:12:44,260 --> 00:12:49,420 Scott Brogan: solving, it'll be a lot easier for you to quickly identify and review some of those things 107 00:12:49,420 --> 00:12:57,260 Scott Brogan: as you happen to get on the phone with these folks, as opposed to stumbling through and trying to remember what those are if you haven't done the research up front. 108 00:12:57,700 --> 00:13:03,380 Scott Brogan: Yeah, and that's the whole point, right? Because if you understand the company you're calling, you understand the person you're 109 00:13:03,380 --> 00:13:11,200 Scott Brogan: talking to, you've already thought through those issues. You already have your note. And the next call, guess what? You're talking to a very similar company. 110 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:21,140 Scott Brogan: You're talking to a very similar individual, and it's going to be a very similar conversation. So the more you do this, the more repetitive it becomes, the more natural it becomes. 111 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:30,000 Scott Brogan: And again, it becomes part of the system. And that's what we're all trying to get to where you think of the different stages of learning when you first start out, 112 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:38,900 Scott Brogan: you're unconsciously incompetent. You don't know what you don't know, right? And then once you start training, you've learned a little bit more, 113 00:13:39,340 --> 00:13:45,660 Scott Brogan: you become consciously incompetent. You know what you don't know. And then ultimately, 114 00:13:46,500 --> 00:13:55,660 Scott Brogan: you become consciously competent where you know you're doing a good job. And then the final stage, and you do this every day in your job today, 115 00:13:55,760 --> 00:14:04,460 Kevin Mako: you just don't think about it. You become unconsciously confident. you just go through the sales call, you know how to answer the question, you know what objections 116 00:14:04,460 --> 00:14:12,120 Kevin Mako: are going to come in, you do it naturally, you don't think about it. You don't think about the process because you become unconsciously confident during that whole process. 117 00:14:12,560 --> 00:14:18,920 Kevin Mako: That's brilliant. The four stages of intellectual competence when it comes to sales or really anything in your business, 118 00:14:19,100 --> 00:14:27,300 Kevin Mako: but if you're focusing on sales, understand that you're starting at the bottom and that's okay. You learn by doing, you learn by trying these things out, continuing to document 119 00:14:27,300 --> 00:14:33,200 Kevin Mako: and continuing to improve so that you can push yourself further and further down the pipeline until you get to that 120 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:39,880 Kevin Mako: end state where you're just naturally competent at answering the questions that come along because you've rinsed and repeated this model before. 121 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:47,680 Kevin Mako: But also, and something that Scott, you're a big proponent of also building in the correct process and improving and adding to your process 122 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:56,380 Kevin Mako: documentation to be good at this over time. Talk about process of sales because I think that also from the eyes of the inventor makes it easier to get into sales. 123 00:14:56,380 --> 00:15:02,900 Kevin Mako: If you can think of sales as a rinse and repeat process where you're slowly adding to your material over time, it becomes less stressful 124 00:15:02,900 --> 00:15:10,140 Kevin Mako: on those small nuances that you may be afraid of on making those initial calls. Because you're looking at it as a fundamental A plus B equals C. 125 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:18,620 Kevin Mako: And as you continue to improve your processes, the steps that are required, increasing your opportunities, decreasing your pain points for that eventual customer, 126 00:15:19,180 --> 00:15:28,180 Scott Brogan: you will find that it ends up being more of a rinse and repeat model as opposed to having to continually think about the stress of one individual phone call or one individual step. 127 00:15:28,260 --> 00:15:32,480 Scott Brogan: of the process. So tell me about some of the processes that you've developed that you find are 128 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:37,420 Scott Brogan: important for hardware startup to emerge into the space and to continue to improve those processes over time. 129 00:15:37,860 --> 00:15:41,720 Scott Brogan: Right. And I think a couple of things, if you start from the very beginning, 130 00:15:42,380 --> 00:15:48,780 Scott Brogan: you're going to decide what your target market is and the people you're going to go after and the companies that you're going to talk to and the individuals you're going to talk to 131 00:15:48,780 --> 00:15:56,300 Scott Brogan: within those companies, you're going to find that some of those companies are not going to be a good fit. Well, others are going to be a great fit. 132 00:15:56,580 --> 00:16:04,880 Scott Brogan: So getting back to understanding and kind of optimizing that process, you're going to go to a learning process that you're going to find 133 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:14,760 Scott Brogan: with a lot of you in new firms, just coming out with a new product. And what happens is, and you want this to happen, it's going to happen, is that you're going to think, 134 00:16:14,900 --> 00:16:23,640 Scott Brogan: like, this is my target market for this product. And then you're going to hear a comment for somebody that says, God, I could see that product being used in this way. 135 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:30,440 Scott Brogan: And then you're going to say, geez, I never thought about that. That's a great idea. And guess what? You pivot. You go to a different market. 136 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:39,420 Scott Brogan: And then all of a sudden, that changes your focus to a different marketplace where your message is going to be highly resonate with those key decision makers. 137 00:16:39,660 --> 00:16:45,120 Scott Brogan: So you've got to learn, you've got to listen, you've got to adapt, you've got to improvise as you move through it. 138 00:16:45,540 --> 00:16:53,400 Scott Brogan: But recognize that as you go through this process, you're continuing to learn, continuing to improve your processes. 139 00:16:53,400 --> 00:17:03,000 Scott Brogan: and when you're coming into objections, for example, you want to make sure that you put down what that objection is and write a response to it. 140 00:17:03,060 --> 00:17:11,820 Scott Brogan: Again, because you're going to get that objection and you're going to want to have a clear and compelling response on how do I overcome this 141 00:17:11,820 --> 00:17:21,000 Scott Brogan: objection during the process. So when you're going through each stage of the process, you want to make sure that you learn from that process and you 142 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:28,480 Scott Brogan: continually improve from that process. And otherwise, you're going to be continued to make the same mistakes. But making mistakes is part of the game. 143 00:17:28,860 --> 00:17:34,480 Scott Brogan: But remember, the people that you're calling want to hear about new and exciting product. 144 00:17:34,860 --> 00:17:44,800 Scott Brogan: And if I can just give you one word to leave you with, it's enthusiasm. You know, that enthusiasm from you, coming from you, the conviction in your voice, 145 00:17:44,940 --> 00:17:52,240 Scott Brogan: your passion, that overcomes a lot of process, right? Because you're excited. You know it's going to be a good fit. 146 00:17:52,400 --> 00:18:01,620 Scott Brogan: You're passionate about what you do, and that resonates with people because you could say whatever, but if you're passionate, if you speak with a great deal of conviction, 147 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:10,600 Kevin Mako: that goes a long ways. That overcomes a lot of mistakes. Although I'm a big process guy, because I know ultimately you'll become unconsciously 148 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:20,000 Kevin Mako: competent, being passionate, being driven, making those calls, even when you don't want or sometimes, that overcomes a lot in the whole selling process. 149 00:18:20,510 --> 00:18:27,370 Kevin Mako: That is incredibly powerful stuff. I love how you brought up two major topics there. One is feedback and the other is enthusiasm. 150 00:18:27,950 --> 00:18:31,870 Kevin Mako: Feedback is huge here, not just because it's good to listen and learn and improve your process, 151 00:18:32,230 --> 00:18:37,690 Kevin Mako: but know that you're talking to an incredibly intelligent individual within the industry generally when you're on the line there. 152 00:18:37,730 --> 00:18:45,510 Kevin Mako: If you're talking to a buyer's agent and their product category is related to yours, the feedback that they are going to give you is invaluable because they're doing that 153 00:18:45,510 --> 00:18:53,970 Kevin Mako: over potentially 30 plus years of experience as being a buyer for that category. No matter where they are in the line, they've probably seen a lot of things in that space. 154 00:18:54,250 --> 00:19:02,730 Kevin Mako: So listen to what they say very, very carefully, because as Scott mentioned, they may actually give you that golden nugget tip that tells you, I'm not the right person to 155 00:19:02,730 --> 00:19:09,370 Kevin Mako: be selling to. However, have you tried this person over there? And there's going to be a reason why they're directing it that way. 156 00:19:09,430 --> 00:19:15,230 Kevin Mako: And there's a reason they're giving you that feedback. It might be feedback on another place to sell. It also might be feedback on your product. 157 00:19:15,230 --> 00:19:22,430 Kevin Mako: Maybe something you can do differently, one of the objections that they might have, that you can do differently to actually improve that product to make it sellable to them. 158 00:19:22,550 --> 00:19:30,370 Kevin Mako: Whatever the case is, note that feedback down because it's coming from an expert, generally, especially if you're speaking to the right person that we're talking about earlier. 159 00:19:30,410 --> 00:19:37,190 Kevin Mako: The second thing that you talked about is the enthusiasm. And I like that you bring that up because not enough people do bring it up on the podcast, 160 00:19:37,430 --> 00:19:45,810 Kevin Mako: but I like how you mentioned just how powerful it is. As a new seller, inevitably, you're going to make those mistakes. So find the ways that you can overcome those mistakes. 161 00:19:46,150 --> 00:19:53,250 Kevin Mako: And like Scott's saying here, enthusiasm is one of the best. big ones that you can do, it should also be very easy for you. Because for most of the listeners 162 00:19:53,250 --> 00:20:00,610 Kevin Mako: on this podcast that have a invention idea that have developed it and are ready to start selling it to the market, this is your baby. This is the thing you've been working on. 163 00:20:00,750 --> 00:20:07,110 Kevin Mako: This is your dream. This is your passion. Allow that to come through your messaging. Because keep in mind who you're 164 00:20:07,110 --> 00:20:16,070 Kevin Mako: competing against in a lot of these situations, you're competing against some selling department of some fortune whatever X hundred company that's selling their next 165 00:20:16,070 --> 00:20:21,050 Kevin Mako: widget or gadget from some person who's just been told to sell it amongst, you know, a thousand other things that 166 00:20:21,050 --> 00:20:25,030 Kevin Mako: they're trying to sell, whereas you are calling them with a thing you developed, it was your 167 00:20:25,030 --> 00:20:30,750 Scott Brogan: idea that you passionately stand behind, that your name's behind, everything else, that gives you a competitive edge. 168 00:20:31,050 --> 00:20:39,290 Scott Brogan: So although they may have the history, you have that unique character, you have that enthusiasm, you have that special ability to say this is why one 169 00:20:39,290 --> 00:20:45,230 Scott Brogan: and only product that I'm very proud of. Of course, there's pros and cons to that from a buyer's eyes, but they can't beat the enthusiasm 170 00:20:45,230 --> 00:20:53,090 Scott Brogan: factor there, especially as a hardware startup. Yeah, that's critical. And I think I've seen it on both ends from both a receiver and a giver with 171 00:20:53,090 --> 00:21:02,510 Scott Brogan: passion and honesty and driven and really put your heart and soul into something does to the conversation you have with people. 172 00:21:02,730 --> 00:21:10,490 Scott Brogan: And that comes through. It's clearly a difference between somebody who's trying to sell a product and the person who invented the product. 173 00:21:10,750 --> 00:21:20,250 Scott Brogan: And that's no different than somebody who founded a company much like many of you, as well as people who have founded product, you know, there's just a set level of passion. 174 00:21:20,470 --> 00:21:27,830 Scott Brogan: There's a story behind it as to the reason why they founded a company or developed this product. And those stories, again, are very, 175 00:21:27,910 --> 00:21:36,010 Scott Brogan: very compelling and something that you should consider as part of your discussion with your clients is, you know, why did you invent this product? 176 00:21:36,190 --> 00:21:44,950 Scott Brogan: What was the motivation behind it? And storytelling, you know, is as old as time, right? But many times, B2B salespeople just don't think 177 00:21:44,950 --> 00:21:50,890 Scott Brogan: it's appropriate to bring up kind of a story. And you have to, it's new one within the B2B world, 178 00:21:51,210 --> 00:21:55,450 Scott Brogan: but telling stories, you walked in and you saw this pain point and 179 00:21:55,450 --> 00:22:01,670 Kevin Mako: you didn't see a solution so you built this product. And this isn't the pitch that you use on shock tank. This is kind of 180 00:22:01,670 --> 00:22:07,190 Kevin Mako: the conversation, the story that gets to your value proposition and why you're different, but it 181 00:22:07,190 --> 00:22:16,010 Kevin Mako: tells it in such a way that it resonates with people because at the end of the day, people don't remember facts. They don't remember numbers, but they remember the story. 182 00:22:16,550 --> 00:22:21,830 Kevin Mako: That's powerful stuff. And I can tell you just from a little bit of behind the scenes with some of the retailers that 183 00:22:21,830 --> 00:22:31,130 Kevin Mako: I have conversations with, every major retailer around the world right now is increasing the acceptance of one-off inventors. 184 00:22:31,490 --> 00:22:39,210 Kevin Mako: It's a huge hot topic. Obviously, because of the growth of Kickstarter and you go-go, they're seeing major brands come out because buyers are saying, 185 00:22:39,210 --> 00:22:49,030 Kevin Mako: I actually want to buy a product that has that backstory behind it. It starts out in certain smaller categories and it's growing and emerging over time. 186 00:22:49,230 --> 00:22:55,210 Kevin Mako: So the retailers are highly sophisticated machines. They're looking at it and they're saying, okay, we traditionally, it was kind of difficult 187 00:22:55,210 --> 00:23:01,530 Kevin Mako: to get a one skew product, an original product from one inventor. Until you had a brand line, it was very hard to get into retailers. 188 00:23:01,770 --> 00:23:08,690 Kevin Mako: It's still difficult, but the tides are changing. And it's changing at the point where retailers are starting to introduce programs to allow 189 00:23:08,690 --> 00:23:14,230 Kevin Mako: it to be easier for somebody that just has one product to get in the doors. Not necessarily saying 190 00:23:14,230 --> 00:23:17,850 Kevin Mako: you're actually going to make the sale, but just know that it's easier than ever before and 191 00:23:17,850 --> 00:23:25,350 Kevin Mako: going to continue to get easier as more and more retailers are jumping on this concept of inventor sold products. 192 00:23:25,750 --> 00:23:33,850 Kevin Mako: So something where they've got that passion and enthusiasm, it allows the retailer to resell that passion and enthusiasm, maybe through the story behind it or the packaging 193 00:23:33,850 --> 00:23:38,670 Kevin Mako: or whatever else. They can charge a higher price for a new and innovative product because it 194 00:23:38,690 --> 00:23:42,810 Kevin Mako: is this one-off thing that everyone's so passionate about the backstory of the inventor. 195 00:23:42,950 --> 00:23:50,190 Kevin Mako: And you'll notice that of these major products that you see out there that has an owner backstory behind it, look at the really big ones that have succeeded. 196 00:23:50,390 --> 00:23:58,790 Kevin Mako: You will see that the story is used in so many of the marketing materials, even on the back of the package, whereas never before would you see this kind of backstory. 197 00:23:59,210 --> 00:24:03,530 Kevin Mako: Now, more than ever, you're starting to see that trickle in a whole bunch of different product categories. 198 00:24:03,570 --> 00:24:10,670 Kevin Mako: So if there's any time to start selling direct, might as well start selling now. The other beauty of it, is it's free. It costs nothing to pick up the phone. 199 00:24:10,810 --> 00:24:13,490 Kevin Mako: It costs nothing to do all this work that Scott and I are talking about today. 200 00:24:13,650 --> 00:24:20,610 Scott Brogan: It's something you can do just with hard sweat and getting out there and getting your name and your product out there to more and more people over time, 201 00:24:20,910 --> 00:24:25,990 Scott Brogan: improving, refining your process. Scott, before I let you go here, talk a bit about what you do 202 00:24:25,990 --> 00:24:30,790 Scott Brogan: in terms of building out some tools, some of the tools that you offer and some of the coaching 203 00:24:30,790 --> 00:24:40,330 Scott Brogan: that you do to help people step by step through all the nuances of building out these sales processes. Yeah, when I first got involved with stales, it constantly amazed 204 00:24:40,330 --> 00:24:49,330 Scott Brogan: me because I came originally from an operating environment. So I ran in operations. And operations, they were very process focused, step one, step two, step three. 205 00:24:49,690 --> 00:24:57,670 Scott Brogan: And when I got into sales and I worked for multiple sales organizations, I always felt like I was starting from scratch. I would go join the organization. 206 00:24:57,690 --> 00:25:05,990 Scott Brogan: There would be no selling system. There would be no sales playbook. I have to figure out everything on my own. And frankly, I looked around me and saw a 207 00:25:06,010 --> 00:25:12,590 Scott Brogan: a lot of field people not being successful. And I said that, you know, there's got to be a better way. There's got to be a better system. 208 00:25:12,730 --> 00:25:20,710 Scott Brogan: So I kind of took that operational knowledge and said, well, why can't we apply that to something that people say it's more art than science? 209 00:25:20,850 --> 00:25:29,330 Scott Brogan: Well, I'm saying sales is just as much science as it is art. So I brought the science into sale and put processes around to 210 00:25:29,330 --> 00:25:38,110 Scott Brogan: help people be successful. People like your listeners of your podcast, people who aren't used to selling, how do you provide a system? 211 00:25:38,350 --> 00:25:42,690 Scott Brogan: How do you help them, not figure it out on their own, but put a system 212 00:25:42,690 --> 00:25:43,690 Kevin Mako: in place where 213 00:25:43,690 --> 00:25:53,070 Scott Brogan: you tell them, step by step by step, these are the things you should be doing. These are the things you should be thinking about because, frankly, the selling industry is 214 00:25:53,070 --> 00:26:02,690 Scott Brogan: far behind many other industries. It's not very mature. And what we're trying to do is to help companies like your listeners become more effective 215 00:26:02,690 --> 00:26:06,370 Scott Brogan: and more efficient in selling by providing. a system to them. 216 00:26:07,690 --> 00:26:16,790 Scott Brogan: And how do they learn more about those systems? Yeah, so my company name is Company Expert, and so it's Company Expert.com, and we've got 217 00:26:16,790 --> 00:26:23,710 Scott Brogan: over 100 playbook, and they range from business planning to selling to marketing, and we've 218 00:26:23,710 --> 00:26:29,530 Scott Brogan: got several different membership options, one of them, which is free, so I encourage you all to take advantage of it. 219 00:26:29,670 --> 00:26:35,170 Scott Brogan: While you're on the site, we also have a B-to-B forum with over 100,000 members, so if you 220 00:26:35,170 --> 00:26:39,790 Scott Brogan: have a question and you want to get feedback from other B2B members, please take advantage of that. 221 00:26:39,970 --> 00:26:49,450 Scott Brogan: But I want to kind of leave you with a thought is that, you know, we're in a very difficult time here with inflation, getting the supply chain, getting help. 222 00:26:49,690 --> 00:26:58,950 Scott Brogan: You know, it could be a little overwhelming with that on top of sales and all that, but recognize some of the best breakthroughs that have happened in very difficult times. 223 00:26:59,210 --> 00:27:07,410 Scott Brogan: Disney was started during the Great Depression. And if you look at Legos, Legos, when I was the kid, you had a pile of Legos, you figured out what to do with. 224 00:27:07,590 --> 00:27:12,990 Scott Brogan: They were ready to go bankrupt just before the last Great Recession. And they kind of rethought their business. 225 00:27:13,230 --> 00:27:21,990 Kevin Mako: And they said, well, what can we do differently? And sometimes you as an entrepreneur have to do the same thing. They rethought their business. And then they got into movies. 226 00:27:22,270 --> 00:27:31,790 Kevin Mako: They got into Legoland. Now they're in Asia and Europe. And they're thriving because they thought differently about their business. So in times like these, it could often be. 227 00:27:31,810 --> 00:27:38,910 Kevin Mako: overwhelming, but these are the time change creates opportunity and now it's really an opportunity for you to really go out there and start selling. 228 00:27:39,450 --> 00:27:46,590 Kevin Mako: Scott, much appreciated for your words of wisdom there. Absolutely can echo that. Know that if times are slow, it's the perfect time to be 229 00:27:46,590 --> 00:27:52,050 Kevin Mako: building out your processes, learning from them, improving them so that when things start to 230 00:27:52,050 --> 00:27:57,050 Kevin Mako: really take off, at that point, you are well geared, both on the product side, your products 231 00:27:57,050 --> 00:28:01,430 Kevin Mako: is completely ironed out, ready to ship, tested, tweaked, refined, you've got amazing product 232 00:28:01,430 --> 00:28:06,410 Kevin Mako: ready to ship. And on the sales side, try tested and true for how you're actually going to move that thing to market. 233 00:28:06,630 --> 00:28:10,030 Kevin Mako: Because you don't want to spend the first year or two of a major economic boom 234 00:28:10,470 --> 00:28:19,510 Scott Brogan: organizing those processes when you can do it now when things just call it slightly sleepier. And you've got a little bit more time to learn and improve and figure out your system 235 00:28:19,510 --> 00:28:25,330 Scott Brogan: to make it work. So as always, Scott, those notes that you mentioned in terms of the website and whatever else, 236 00:28:25,330 --> 00:28:32,350 Scott Brogan: I'll put those links in the show notes for anyone listening in that wants to click through or you can go directly to his website there, check Scott out on LinkedIn. 237 00:28:32,910 --> 00:28:36,910 Scott Brogan: And again, thanks for all your words of wisdom. And we'll look forward to talking to you again soon. Thank you. 238 00:28:37,310 --> 00:28:47,210 Narrator: Thanks for tuning in to this episode of the Product Startup Podcast, the show that teaches you what it really takes to bring your product to market and turn it into a 239 00:28:47,210 --> 00:28:54,230 Narrator: big success. This podcast series is brought to you by Mako Design + Invent, the original and leading 240 00:28:54,230 --> 00:29:03,550 Narrator: firm in North America to provide global caliber end-to-end physical consumer product development to startups, inventors, and small product business clients. 241 00:29:03,850 --> 00:29:12,570 Narrator: If you're looking for product development help on your invention, head over to MakoDesign.com. That's M-A-K-O Design dot com 242 00:29:12,570 --> 00:29:20,910 Narrator: for a free consultation from one of Mako Design's Ford Design Studios from coast to coast. Thanks for listening and see you next time.