Tom Freiling: I think that's the biggest challenge for anybody who
wants to be an entrepreneur today is, is keep up with the change.
Dallas Burnett: Hey, everybody.
We're talking to Tom f Fryling today.
What an amazing guy.
He is the chairman and CEO of the F Fryling Agency.
He's a three time founder and a true pioneer who's on the forefront
of hybrid publishing for leaders.
He's got some incredible stories about scaling companies, selling companies,
building platforms, and helping top CEOs and entrepreneurs and influencers turn
their life's work into lasting influence.
He is a great friend of mine.
You don't want to miss this incredible conversation.
Welcome to the last 10%.
Your host, Dallas Burnett, dives into incredible conversations that
will inspire you to finish well.
And finish strong, strong.
Listen as guests share their journeys and valuable advice on living in the last 10%.
If you are a leader, a coach, a business owner, or someone looking to
level up, you are in the right place.
Remember, you can give 90% effort and make it a long way, but it's finding
out how to unlock the last 10%.
That makes all the difference in your life, your relationships, and your work.
Now here's Dallas.
Welcome, 📍 Welcome to the last 10%.
Your host, Dallas Burnett, dives into incredible conversations
that will inspire you to finish well and finish strong and strong.
Listen, as guests share their journeys in valuable advice on living in the last 10%.
If you are a leader, a coach.
A business owner or someone looking to level up, you are in the right place.
Remember, you can give 90% effort and make it a long way, but it's finding
out how to unlock the last 10%.
That makes all the difference in your life, your relationships, and your work.
Now here's Dallas.
Welcome, welcome, welcome.
I am Dallas Burnett, sitting in my 1905 Koch Brothers barber chair.
In Thrive Studios, but more importantly today, we have a great guest.
He's the co-founder of Better Culture.
He's a true champion of healthy, joyful workplace cultures, which, you know,
we all want that here at the last 10%.
And was it innovative?
20 tenets of culture program.
Brett's helping organizations empower employees and strengthen
teams and create workplaces that.
Feel your bucket.
So I know that you guys are excited about this incredible conversation.
Welcome to the show, Brett.welcome, welcome.
I am Dallas Burnett, sitting 📍 Welcome to the last 10%.
Your host, Dallas Burnett, dives into incredible conversations
that will inspire you to finish well and finish strong and strong.
Listen, as guests share their journeys in valuable advice on living in the last 10%.
If you are a leader, a coach.
A business owner or someone looking to level up, you are in the right place.
Remember, you can give 90% effort and make it a long way, but it's finding
out how to unlock the last 10%.
That makes all the difference in your life, your relationships, and your work.
Now here's Dallas.
Welcome, welcome, welcome.
I am Dallas Burnett, sitting in my 1905 Koch Brothers barber chair.
In Thrive Studios, but more importantly today, we have a great guest.
He's the co-founder of Better Culture.
He's a true champion of healthy, joyful workplace cultures, which, you know,
we all want that here at the last 10%.
And was it innovative?
20 tenets of culture program.
Brett's helping organizations empower employees and strengthen
teams and create workplaces that.
Feel your bucket.
So I know that you guys are excited about this incredible conversation.
Welcome to the show, Brett.in my 1905 Koch Brothers barber chair.
In Thrive Studios, but more importantly today, we have a great guest.
He is the chairman and CEO of the Fryling Agency.
He's a publishing powerhouse who's a Forbes Business Council member,
an executive on the executive board at Fast Company Advisory Council
for Harvard Business Review.
He's on John Maxwell's leadership.
Contributing writer for Entrepreneurial Magazine.
Goodness.
The list goes on.
He is been on Fox and C-N-N-B-C and cspan.
Whoa, my gosh.
I didn't know.
you were this famous.
Tom.
Welcome to the show, Tom Fryling.
Tom Freiling: Thank you.
That makes me tired even listening to all.
Dallas Burnett: You've been, you've been a man with many talents and you've been all.
over, so I gotta tell the listeners, so I, I know you, we've known each
other for several years now because.
This is even the bigger surprise.
This is the big reveal Tom and his filing agency are is the
company that published Lyft.
So my second book Lyft was published when we have collaborated and have worked
together, on different things ever since.
And so we've just kind of kept in contact over the years and
that was such a fun project.
So, man, welcome to the show, Tom.
Tom Freiling: Definitely.
In fact, I've got a copy of your book right here on my desk.
Dallas Burnett: Oh.
Tom Freiling: It's dropping up my laptop right now.
I'm not gonna remove it because it'll, but
Dallas Burnett: good.
Tom Freiling: throw Is that three, three years ago?
Maybe
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.
Yeah.
Three years ago, something like that.
Yeah.
I think it took us a while, so we might've been working on it Four
years ago, but was that, I think it's been out few, two or three years.
so yeah.
That's a great project.
It was really fun to work with.
So let's, let's talk about this because tell us your story a little bit, because
you have, you've been a real entrepreneur.
and done some amazing things in an industry.
I love how your story has kind of gone because it's not like
you've just started one company.
You kind of operated in this space and leaned on some of your expertise
and navigated through multiple companies that you've started up.
Some you've sold actually multiple companies you've had exits on and sold.
And so just, just give everybody kinda your background and, and, kind of how
you got to doing what you're doing.
Tom Freiling: Yeah.
Okay.
Well, you know, I've been publishing books for like 30 years, more than 30 years.
It's virtually all I have ever done is.
books.
not as an entrepreneur or on my own for that entire time.
Really for the first 10 years, I was not, I worked for other publishing
companies and then right around 1999, 2000, I launched out on my own.
I never liked much working for other people.
I was always kind of a. I had this wild, independent spirit about me.
So, um, I discovered, or I guess, didn't discover, but saw a new technology
that allowed books to be printed, in small quantities very quickly.
Print on demand technology.
I learned about this in 1999 and, left my job, left my full-time job,
launched into starting my own company.
that technology.
And that's what I have been doing ever since,
Dallas Burnett: Wow.
Tom Freiling: in a variety of different ways.
with different companies that I was, uh, owner of a part of starting or founding.
And, it's been a journey, man.
It's been a real journey.
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.
I, I, That's awesome.
That's really good.
what I'm very interested to kind of talk a little bit about is your
experiences as it relates to startup.
'cause one of the things that you do and, and we're both, I would
consider both of us entrepreneurs.
I also though I, I am.
I would consider you a very talented, there's entrepreneurs
at different stages, right?
It's not just, there's some that are really good at startups, some that are
good at scale, some that are good at whatever, but it's a turnaround, whatever.
But I see you as an entrepreneur that is.
Particularly, you just have a really uncanny ability to start things in markets
that just have this quick need and you can just, you come out the gate so fast.
And so tell us kind of how, how that has, I don't know, your experience
with startups 'cause you've started at least, I mean, I don't know,
like set multiple companies.
So is there, do you have a way or is it just kind of intuition?
How do you go through that?
Tom Freiling: That's a great, that's a great question.
I don't think I have a way, and at least I've not been
able to identify the way yet.
Methodology.
I think every entrepreneur is different in what they bring to the table.
You know, I've, I have been unable to really identify what makes a
good entrepreneur, even though I've been one for many years.
I've known a ton of them, and I've never been able to find a common, a commonality
or a common theme that, predicts what would make a good entrepreneur.
Man, they come from all walks of life.
They all have different approaches and such.
I think that I have a. I call it intuition, but I think I have a
good knack for looking around the next corner, I think I understand
what's coming around the next corner.
I don't, I'm not a good long-term planner at all.
I don't even do long-term planning anymore.
You quit years ago.
'cause it never, it never worked anyway.
It never happened the way I thought it was gonna happen,
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.
Tom Freiling: gave it up.
So what I try to do is just peer around the next corner and understand
what's coming down the pike next, and then move toward that and leverage
that to the best of my ability.
And then look around the next corner, and then the next corner, and then the next
Dallas Burnett: Hmm.
Tom Freiling: I would say that's my method now.
know how I do that, man, I don't know what the answer to that question is.
I don't, I have been in the same industry for a long time, so when you're
in the same industry for a long time, I think that's helpful because you
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.
Tom Freiling: a lot of things that other people are just not gonna understand,
Dallas Burnett: Right, right.
Yeah.
Tom Freiling: so I think that gives me an advantage today, as long as
I stay in the publishing industry.
Now, I've veered outside of publishing more than once, and my success was varied.
I wasn't, you know, didn't find as much success outside of
publishing Then inside publishing.
Dallas Burnett: What do you think of the biggest challenges right now?
If I'm an entrepreneur and I'm wanting to go out.
Let's say I'm where you were.
you're talking to the Tom right?
After that first 10 years you've worked for somebody
and you're about to say, Okay.
I'm gonna start this.
I'm jumping out on my own, going to do my own thing.
Maybe I've picked a specialty, an industry, an area of
expertise that I've developed.
I'm, launching.
What, advice would you give to somebody that's about to take that leap?
Tom Freiling: Well, things change are changing very quickly these days.
Things are changing faster than ever.
So I think that's the biggest challenge for anybody who wants
to be an entrepreneur today is, keep up with the change.
20 years ago, 25 years ago, and I launched out on my own, the change.
it was changed, but not nearly at the pace it is today.
So I think that's a challenge, to stay, to keep pace with the
change, and stay ahead of it.
and I, and to predict what's going to happen next, I think
is very challenging today,
more, than ever actually.
So I think that's the biggest change is, being able to predict
what's coming down the pike.
'cause as an entrepreneur you have to, to some degree.
Dallas Burnett: yeah,
Tom Freiling: predict that there's also so much competition
today and whatever you do,
Dallas Burnett: yeah.
Tom Freiling: of competition because it's not that hard to
go out on your own anymore,
Dallas Burnett: right?
Tom Freiling: ago, it was a lot harder than it is today.
So how do you differentiate yourself from everybody else?
How do you move at the pace you need to move to stay ahead of everybody else?
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.
A
Tom Freiling: S.
Dallas Burnett: hundred percent I think.
I think it's like, it's the, this kind of a double-edged sword because on one
side this change, opens up opportunities that didn't exist 20 years ago.
Right?
We, you know, we're talking about AI and all these things that are, that
these are opportunities that we have in front of us that just didn't exist.
But on the flip side, it's knowing how.
There's gonna be winners and losers, right?
There's gonna be some people that pick that corner around the right corner.
It's a good, it's a good pick, and they win, and there's gonna be some losers.
So it's like a double-edged sword.
You've got multiple, paths of opportunity that you might have success, but
there could be some that, that could, you know, you go around and get
squashed, you know, from the corner.
So it's just, yeah, I think that's a good council for, for young,
entrepreneurs entering into the.
Fray of, of things.
I, I would love to hear too, 'cause this is, we talk a lot about coaching,
we talk a lot about leadership.
We talk a lot about personal development.
when you started your first company, when you came out the gate, you built that
team and ultimately several years later, sold that company to a public company.
And that's a, that's a huge accomplishment.
When you were first starting building that team, did you have
any kind of, Rhyme or reason?
Did you have any kinda strategy or like, feels like what kind of people that you
wanted to create and build that, that fresh first team with, or people you
were, who, who you wanted on the bus, who you knew you didn't want on the bus?
what types of people were, how did you build that team successfully?
Tom Freiling: I was fortunate then to have, I was able to hire a lot of
people I already knew, which was great.
Dallas Burnett: Hmm.
Tom Freiling: So a lot of my first hires were people I had worked.
With, at a previous company.
so there was a lot of trust and familiarity already built in to that.
and I think that's the reason, part of the reason why I was able to build it
quickly is because we all knew each other.
We'd worked with each other before.
there wasn't a, like a huge, a giant learning curve in terms
of getting to know each other.
Dallas Burnett: Okay.
Tom Freiling: that, that made a really big difference.
and at the time I didn't know that, to be honest with you.
I did not realize that until later when I worked on some other businesses where
I brought in people I didn't know.
realized it was a lot different.
Dallas Burnett: that's a really good strategy.
I mean, I've never really thought about that, but if you, you know it, there's
just one less thing you have to figure out as an entrepreneur when you're going and
you're starting something new and there's just so many problems to solve, right?
You're setting up all the.
Systems and processes and getting everything going.
You're trying to find those customers and trying to get in front of
all these, all these problems.
But if you pick people in a team, if you can, and are fortunate enough, like
what you did to pick people that you already know, then it's kinda like,
well, that's one less problem that I have to solve because we already,
I know what their capabilities are.
I know what their skillset is.
I know, I know how we interact.
I know we get along.
That's just one less problem that you gotta solve when it's really critical
in the early stages of a, of a company.
So that's, that's really cool.
That's really cool.
So I would love to hear, You know, as you've gone through,
you've had this process, you've grown, the company, you exited.
What was the hardest thing for you?
Because we've got some business leaders that may be at the end of their
journey, and they're, they're looking to exit, whether they're, you know,
they've done a startup and they're looking to exit or they've worked in
a company their entire, entire career.
What advice would you give them as you went through that
exit process the first time?
what are some of the challenges that you experienced going through
that, and what advice would you give to, founders that are exiting
their first, their first business?
Tom Freiling: that's a good question.
I would say, first of all, and this isn't really a direct answer to your
question, but, I don't think it's wise when you're, when you own a business,
to think about the exit too much until you're getting close to wanting to exit.
So I think if you're always thinking about your exit strategy,
you're gonna run your business.
Differently and, than if you weren't.
And I don't think it's always wise to be thinking about your exit until you're
Dallas Burnett: Okay.
Tom Freiling: that point.
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.
Tom Freiling: and I hear this a lot in my early days, people didn't talk about their
exit strategy as much as they do today.
Today people are talking about their thinking about their exit strategy.
Even as they're founding their company, they're already
Dallas Burnett: Oh,
Tom Freiling: and think about
Dallas Burnett: a hundred percent.
That's a big topic in entrepreneurial circle.
I mean, like with Entrepreneur Magazine, as you know, I mean this is like,
you know, begin with the end in mind.
So you have to, you have to have everything developed about, you know,
where are you gonna be at in terms of your revenue, where are you gonna be at in
trying, what's your partnership look like?
What's your staff gonna look?
I do find that, like, I get what they're saying 'cause the idea
of this kind of planning and, and like, you know, that is important.
But on the flip side, how many businesses, I mean the number so
funny, it's like the, the number of businesses that never make it.
to the point where they actually would is so high.
Tom Freiling: Most,
Dallas Burnett: So it's kind of like, it is kind of like, hey, you just,
need to worry about like zero to one.
Let's get to that and then, then we can talk about that later.
So yeah, I think that's interesting.
That's good.
Tom Freiling: you
Dallas Burnett: That's good perspective.
Tom Freiling: you gotta run a good business.
that's the bottom line.
And if you run a good business.
That grows and is profitable, there will eventually be an exit strategy.
it will make itself known.
And I did not intend to sell the company that I started, my first company.
I didn't intend to sell it.
it really wasn't something I thought about until it became obvious to
me that somebody wanted to buy it.
And, it was a good company.
It was a strong company and I was ready to sell.
But it wasn't something I thought about, along, along the way.
Dallas Burnett: You hadn't planned that from the beginning.
It wasn't like, I'm just doing this so that I can sell out to this.
Yeah.
That's interesting.
So as you went through that process, do you have, when you look back and think
on that, what are some things that you were like, that went really well, or
some things that you were like, I would do that, would do that differently?
Or If I had it to go over, I would do something differently.
Tom Freiling: so in my case, when I sold the company, I continued to run the.
I continued to run it for the company that bought my company.
So that was a little different.
It's not always like that, you know, and that can be challenging in and of itself.
'cause that was my baby and then I sold it, and now somebody
else was in charge technically.
So that came with, all sorts of unique challenges.
And I, but I think every situation is different, as far as that goes.
Dallas Burnett: Mm-hmm.
Tom Freiling: you know, in, in my case, it was all good.
the company that bought my company, they were great to work with, you
know, no complaints and such, but they had about 2000 employees.
So there were many layers of decision makers above me, and I was used to being
able to just make a decision, you know,
Dallas Burnett: yeah.
Tom Freiling: make the decision.
So it was different.
And then there were a lot of other people involved in making decisions,
and so things moved a lot slower.
And I didn't, I wasn't accustomed to that, so that, that was hard, hard
for me to adjust to and get used to.
And I think that's the case for anybody who sells their company to a large
company and continues to work there.
A lot of things are gonna change.
And
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.
Tom Freiling: have a boss that, you know, then I, when I sold
the company, I had a boss.
That's a
Dallas Burnett: Mm. Yeah.
Right.
Tom Freiling: So it, in my case, I was really lucky.
it was a great experience and, uh, you know, no, I had no complaints,
but, but it was a completely different landscape after the transaction occurs.
Dallas Burnett: Yeah, that's, I think that's a really good point.
And I think that most people, it's, it's almost like, when they say you,
you, you, you don't just marry your spouse, you marry their family too.
Right.
You know, so it's like you're not just selling the business.
You're, you're married in, especially if you're, if you're in
it, you're, it's not like you're just selling your business now.
Your business is a part of their business.
You get all of that business as well.
So if you decide to stay, I think that's really good advice that if you
decide to stay on, you've got to really.
You really wanna get to know the type of company, the size of the company,
how, how's this gonna work together?
I think there could be a lot of frustration.
like you kind of put it, if the complete dynamic change, you're used to
making quick decisions as the founder, let's go, let's get things done.
moves to large corporation, multilayer politics, the whole deal.
and, and you have to navigate that.
So you gotta be ready for that.
So I think that's, I think that's really good.
Well, I wanna talk a little bit about, 'cause you've been writing,
I mean the, the list of people that you've collaborated with.
Is amazing.
I mean, you've worked with, I mean, what are the, some of the, you've
worked with celebrities, CEOs, you know, government officials,
Tom Freiling: Well, you know, sometimes I'm under an NDA
and can't disclose the who.
But I've worked with NNBA players, US Senators.
Grammy award winning artists, journalists.
I mean, you name it.
I've been doing this a long time.
I've worked with a wide variety of individuals, either as their writer,
their ghost writer, collaborator as their publisher, or in another way.
So that's a, that's one of the great things about being in publishing,
in publishing, is you get to meet a lot of amazing people along the way.
And I've been blessed in that way.
Dallas Burnett: That's amazing.
I mean, I know your network is incredible because of that, and I know you can't
share some of the names of, of the folks, but I mean, I, I think that our listeners
will enjoy your perspective on this because one of the things that you are
a really an expert at is the idea of.
Telling your story because you've had the opportunity to work
with some incredible people.
What are, what are some insights, I say good insights, good and bad, that
you, you've experienced that as you've worked with these just amazing people.
What are some insights you would say, this is what, this is what people do.
really usually well, telling their story, and this is what people.
I kind of screw up on a lot of times that, Jones, do you have any
insights for our listeners on that?
Tom Freiling: I do.
I think that, oftentimes authors when they start a project, either, whether
they're, whether or not they're writing it themselves or they're working with
another writer, a ghost writer or whatnot, they, tend to want to overshare.
they want to say a lot.
They wanna share.
Their whole story, and usually it's too much of their story.
I did some research on this the other day.
On any given day, you speak and you hear, you listen to between 40 and 60,000 words.
Okay?
That's where on any given day today, tomorrow, that's how
many words you're gonna say.
And here, okay.
That is a length of a, of an average book.
So
Dallas Burnett: That's amazing.
Tom Freiling: could
Dallas Burnett: That's amazing.
Tom Freiling: book about one single day of your life.
And I believe any other, maybe not every day, some days are more exciting than
others or in other ways, more pivotal.
But I know I could write a single book about one day of my life.
You could probably do the same.
So when you sit down to write a book about your whole life
or maybe decades of your life.
the one, the big thing you gotta do is you gotta figure
out what not to put in the book.
'cause 99, 9% of what you've experienced there will not be space for, in your book.
Your book would
Dallas Burnett: Wow.
Tom Freiling: 10,000 pages if you told the whole story.
So that's really that when it comes down to it, like that's the rub is
like you gotta decide what you're gonna tell and what you're not gonna tell.
And usually authors won't tell too much of their story.
Even the most fascinating of us.
At some point, your story gets a little boring when you start to tell everybody
what, you know, what grandma fed you for breakfast when you were six years old.
Right?
Stuff that think is interesting.
Dallas Burnett: Right.
Tom Freiling: reader does not think is interesting.
it's like somebody wanting to show you their vacation, their home, you
know, uh, vacation movie or something.
Dallas Burnett: yeah.
Tom Freiling: You think it's really interesting, but you don't.
So it's the same with books.
and it's a process of figuring out what to tell and what not to tell.
And and also you don't want to just tell the story.
maybe if you're super famous, if you're Matthew McConaughey.
Yeah, we wanna know as much about him as we can, right?
Because he is super famous guy and his book sold extremely well.
People wanna know about him, but most of us are not at that level.
So you wanna tell the stuff that's the most interesting, the most
compelling, and, not share to the point where the reader's just
shaking his head and he doesn't care.
Dallas Burnett: I think that's so important.
And I think for when I think about our personal, whether we're, we're writing
a book, and I think that's definitely my, in my experience, it's definitely,
and even last time in our collaboration, I remember you telling me it's like,
we're not short for material here, man.
we, you know, you've sent me a lot of material and it's like, yeah, I just
wanted to make sure you have it all.
But then.
When we went back through it and just refined and refined it, the really,
the work was in, was what, what to take away and, and really what to keep.
It wasn't, it wasn't, do we have enough and what are we saying?
It's like literally like, what are we cutting out?
'cause it was just so much.
And so I think as a leader though, when I'm thinking about leading an
organization, when I'm thinking about leading a team, I think it's so important.
Like when you said that we're hearing almost a book.
Every day.
This is the words that we're, they're speaking or being spoken to us.
I think there's such an easy We can get fooled into thinking that people care more
about what we think than, than we, we, you know, that we think, they think care.
They care more than we, than they actually do.
So, like, they don't, they don't care essentially.
They don't care.
as much about what we are saying as we do, and they don't think
we're near as interesting as we do.
Right.
so just, so I think that it's almost like what, when we're sharing, I think that's,
again, even more important to leaders.
To really dial in those critical things like your mission,
your vision, your values.
Because if I'm gonna speak, it would be more valuable on
the daily, if I'm saying less.
But what I'm saying is consistent because they're hearing 40,000 words
a day or speaking 40,000 words a day.
It's, it is cons.
It's just this stream of consciousness and they're having to pick out the most
important elements out of that day.
So as a leader, if I'm guiding someone, if I'm coaching someone.
It would be better if I took the most valuable elements into what the, just
absolutely the fundamental, so if I'm, if I'm the CEO of a company, I'm
going to be sharing the most important aspects of our mission, vision,
values, and how whatever it is I'm talking about relates to those things.
Consistently every day, I'm gonna beat that drum every day because I've
gotta cut through those 40,000 words.
If I'm coaching someone, then I don't, I don't want to, I don't wanna get
into all the peripheral stuff yet.
It's easy.
We can talk about, you know, the life, the family, the kids, the
work, the, all these other things.
But what is that one thing?
We don't need to miss that.
We're gonna come back to it.
I'm gonna constantly be bringing that person back to this one thing.
What are we gonna commit to over the next 30 days?
How you doing on your 30 day commitment?
How you doing your threat?
So I'm just constantly bringing it back.
So I think what you're saying is not just important for books.
I think it's, totally applicable across all, all leadership in,
in organizations and in teams.
So, I think that's really important, really important.
Tom Freiling: there, there's some, there are some business books, for
example, or business authors who never, ever share anything about themselves
or their own story in their book, and they're hugely popular books.
Um, I mean, off the top of my head, I'm a Malcolm Gladwell fan.
I love his books.
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.
Tom Freiling: I don't, to be honest with you, I don't really,
I don't know if he ever shares anything about himself in his books.
Right.
he's talking about other people, not about himself.
So that's a path you can take, either, whether you're writing a book or in any
other way, sharing what you have learned.
Is to not talk about yourself.
And I think sometimes there's value in doing that.
on the other hand, there are some authors who share a ton about
themselves, and it's also valuable because they've learned a lot.
So I think you have to decide, probably on the front end of it,
at least if you're writing a book, which direction you're gonna take.
Is this gonna be mostly about me and my stories and experiences,
or is it gonna be, is not, is it gonna be not that at all.
I think the number one question.
the question that would help, that helps the most when you're writing
your story as you're writing it, is to constantly ask yourself, who cares?
Who cares?
Dallas Burnett: That's great.
Tom Freiling: Who cares?
Yeah.
Dallas Burnett: really good.
Tom Freiling: to admit at the very, at the very beginning of the process to
admit yourself that nobody does care.
They truly don't care.
So once you admit that to yourself and to the reader, your book's
gonna be a lot better when you
Dallas Burnett: Mm mm
Tom Freiling: the same when you're communicating with your team, right?
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.
Tom Freiling: you're gonna have a staff meeting, you wouldn't think
to spend most of your staff meeting communicating about your day.
Right.
And
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.
Tom Freiling: been in meetings like that where leaders did do that,
Dallas Burnett: Oh.
Tom Freiling: I'm sure you have to.
Dallas Burnett: Oh, recently actually.
Yeah.
Yeah, a hundred percent man was at a summit, a leadership summit, and
the speaker stands up and just goes off about just random stuff, and I'm
sitting there like scratching my head.
I was like, oh my God.
Nobody cares.
Tom Freiling: You
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.
Tom Freiling: about what people care about, whether you're
writing or doing anything else.
and the best books, the best authors, that's what they do.
they write about what people care about.
Dallas Burnett: I think that's a great point, and that's
tapping into that market.
So you're thinking about your book, like, you know, as we get into this,
'cause I, I wanna talk about books.
'cause obviously this is your, this is a field that you're.
Very much a huge expert in, have massive amount of experience
and, and credibility in it.
when we think about that, I, I do think that so many people that decide, I think
I, I think I'm wanna write a book and you might be an, an owner of a business.
You might be a manager, a leader, a coach.
You might be a consultant, it doesn't matter.
There's a lot of people out there that want to, to.
Write books for different reasons, but if you're thinking about.
writing a book, I think that who, I think that's a huge question.
Who cares?
Because ultimately it, it's doing two things.
Number one is forcing you to, to determine.
Who actually really cares, like this content has got to serve someone.
You know, it's gotta serve someone.
So is it helping people understand something?
Is it educational resource?
Is it helping people inspire?
Is it helping people, you know, solve a problem they haven't been able to solve?
Like what?
What is it?
What's the reason for its being and that who cares is great.
And then on the flip side, it's that humility side.
The other side of that coin, like it's the humility decides like,
you know what, nobody really cares about this as much as I do.
Like I actually care about this, but my level of care is like a 10 and everybody
else is gonna be at like a two or a three.
And so having that, it just.
It just helps you with perspective.
So I think one is from a marketing perspective,
approaching it like a business.
And the other side is really from a humility perspective, saying, look,
you know, a lot of what I'm putting in this, it might be as much or more
for me, or what parts are more for me than it's for somebody else Who cares?
Who cares?
And so I think that's really good advice.
I I, I would love for you to talk a little bit about, 'cause I think
some of our listeners might be interested in, in, publishing and the
different ways that people, you know.
There's a million different re reasons that people publish books, but, from
your perspective, you know, for business leaders, for entrepreneurs, for managers
and coaches, consultants, these are people that listen to the last 10%, chew this up.
Why would, why would they want to?
Why is it, why is it a good idea in 20, you know, 26 to
decide, Hey, you know what?
I think I got something to say.
I'm gonna write a book.
Why is that a good idea?
Tom Freiling: a book has always been and will always be, in my
opinion, the best way to, to expand your influence, establish
your authority, your credibility.
There is no better way.
I sometimes people will say, well, Tom, there's a lot of
books being published these days.
It seems like everybody's publishing a book.
It's actually not true.
It's less, less than 1% of us will ever write and publish a book.
Dallas Burnett: I did not know that.
Really?
1%. Oh my gosh, less than 1%.
Tom Freiling: there's a lot of other things you can do.
You can host podcasts, you can write blogs.
There's a lot of ton of stuff, and that's all helpful.
But none of it has the authority that, that a book has.
And I believe it, none of it has the longevity that a book has either.
I mean, a book is eternal.
I was a, I was in a bookstore this weekend and there it was like a antique
shop, rare bookshop, and there's books in there from a hundred years ago.
150 years ago, and I marveled at that and it's like the, these were, these are
permanent and the people who wrote these books still alive in those books, right?
In
Dallas Burnett: that's amazing.
Tom Freiling: people that are alive.
and this is a fact, when you go back through history, the only
rea reason we remember anybody.
history is because they either wrote a book or a book was written about them.
Dallas Burnett: That's true.
Tom Freiling: books written about, Moses, we would not know who Moses was or is.
Dallas Burnett: That's right.
Yeah.
Tom Freiling: because.
A book was written about him.
Dallas Burnett: Yeah,
Tom Freiling: I mean, at really at this level.
Even a, Matthew, mark, Luke, and John, right?
Dallas Burnett: yeah, yeah, yeah,
Tom Freiling: had written those books, we would not know who Jesus was.
No
Dallas Burnett: that's that's true.
Tom Freiling: the book.
It was only the book.
so I'm biased 'cause I'm a book publisher, but I
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.
Tom Freiling: it is the only way that, that you're gonna cement your legacy
and we all put authors on a pedestal.
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.
Tom Freiling: And so it, when you write and publish your book, you
are, then you're on a pedestal
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.
Tom Freiling: be respected for that.
I believe more than anything else you can do.
Dallas Burnett: It is so funny that you say that because my first book,
which I probably did a worst job, bless my editors, bless my editor on that.
So Maria, if you're listening, I'm so sorry.
But, the first book, whenever you look back on books, you're just like, Ooh.
But I had put, I did the exact mistake you said, put too much in and bless her heart.
She helped me, you know.
Cut out a lot of what didn't need to be there, which I, at the beginning
was like, oh no, this is good.
And then at the end I'm like, why did I even put what I put in there?
That's still too much.
So, but anyway, that, that book move, which is actually right behind me on
the shelf right there, when I, after it came out, it got handed to somebody.
It was a friend of a friend that passed it over and ultimately, like 30 days after it
came out, somebody at the Pentagon got it.
Don't ask me how that happened, but that happened.
This was my crazy book story.
And they called me and I literally got a call on my cell phone.
It's like, you know, Pentagon, I can't remember what the number was.
Like I said something like the Pentagon or US Agency or whatever.
I was like, what the heck?
So I answered the phone, I'm like, hello?
They're like, well, this is so and so at the Pentagon.
I'm like, nah, really?
Like what?
What is this a scam?
You?
You're about to sell me some, You know, real estate or something, and
in, you know, out in Utah or Arizona, no, this is really the Pentagon.
We want you to come up and talk on your book.
I was like, well, what?
So anyway, to your point, that book lasts.
When I went up there and, and, and did a workshop on the book, they,
they said, do you have a copy?
And I was like, yeah.
I brought several copies, said, well, could we have one?
We're gonna put it in the, the library here at the Pentagon.
And I was like,
Tom Freiling: Wow.
Dallas Burnett: man.
I will do that.
Here's a copy.
I'll even sign it and you can put it in the library at the Pentagon.
So I've got a copy of my book in the library that now I have no
idea and will have no way of ever knowing if anybody in the Pentagon
ever checks that out moving forward.
But that book is in the library.
At the Pentagon.
And so the other day, yeah, the other day, when I was, when I was, I was out, I was
working a table at this, other conference.
I was helping a friend out.
They wanted me to, help a, you know, had some speakers coming in.
I was standing outside this table for them and they came out and I
guy, I haven't seen, I haven't seen this guy in probably at least 10
years, you know, at least 10 years.
Hadn't seen him.
Great guy, great business mentor of mine.
Maybe we'll have him on the show, but he comes up to me, Dallas, man.
Good to see you.
Hey man.
I just recommended your book this past week to a guy I mentor.
I'm like, what?
I haven't even talked to you in 10 years.
He's like, yeah, I heard a podcast that you had on.
And then I, I realized I'm working with this guy on delegation, so I told him you
needed to check out your delegation book.
And I recommended him.
I bought it and gave it to him.
I'm like, well, man, I was like.
Did you read it?
He's like, no, I hadn't even read it.
Like I just heard your shot and I've remembered you and I, but
there would've been no way of communicating and contacting there.
There's no, he's not reaching out to me to get this guy and train him on
delegation, but because there's a book there and because It's available and
he heard a podcast that's, oh Yeah.
Dallas.
Oh Yeah.
he's got a book on delegation.
I'm working with this guy and now he's got something.
So I, that's two examples that if there was no book there.
There's no, there's no ripple, you know, but forevermore, there's
a, there's a little, even if it's a small one, it's just one book.
It's not a big sale.
I'm not making money off that, but it's like just one ripple.
So I, I agree with you on that.
Tom Freiling: Yeah.
And you can't really think about a book always in terms of the
numbers of copies that are sold.
You
Dallas Burnett: Mm-hmm.
Tom Freiling: it in terms of the influence
Dallas Burnett: Mm-hmm.
Tom Freiling: your, book might.
Sell one copy, right?
but maybe it has incredible influence on that one person who bought
it and read it, and that ripple effect might change the world.
You don't know, right?
Or you could sell a thousand copies and it might have less influence than the ones.
So I really encourage authors not to think about it in terms of
how many copies of my book sold.
Think about it in terms of the influence that, that it made, and heck, that might
be 10 years from now, 20 years from now.
Your book might be in a rare book shop a hundred years from now.
Dallas Burnett: could be
Tom Freiling: it up.
It might make a difference in their life after you're long gone.
Dallas Burnett: after you're long gone.
Tom Freiling: only do that.
You can only do that with a book.
Dallas Burnett: Oh man, this is good.
Dude.
We could talk forever about this.
I'm, I'm all about it and, I will tell the listeners, Tom
and I are now collaborating.
On a super secret project right now.
And it is, it's actually, it's not what you think, so it's not another book.
Although I'm, I'm actually thinking about, starting another book.
It's not another book.
but we're gonna be announcing it very soon, but we're
collaborating on a super secret.
Project that will be launching later this year, hopefully in the next 45 days.
So, very excited about that.
and Tom, we always ask our guests, and this is a, this is a hard, this sometimes
hard, but it doesn't have to be hard, but we always ask the guests on the
last 10%, and thank you for sharing your wisdom and everything with our listeners.
'cause I know they, they had this so much good stuff, that we covered today.
We always ask them, who is someone that they would like to hear?
As a guest on the last 10%.
Some people will say, you know, people they know.
Some people say people they have no idea about.
Some people said their daughter, it doesn't really matter.
But do you have anybody in your mind that you said, man, if I could hear that
person on the last 10%, that'd be awesome.
Tom Freiling: I mean, El Elon Musk would
Dallas Burnett: Oh, oh, you're not making it easy on me.
Tom Freiling: I dunno.
I mean, there's, there's some people that you can't, I can't figure out what
is it that made them so super successful
Dallas Burnett: Yeah.
Yeah.
Tom Freiling: that's, it's a mystery to me.
So he's one of them.
Dallas Burnett: He is one of 'em.
He's definitely a phenomenal, I mean, he's, he's one of a kind.
There's, I don't know.
it's another planet.
So, well listen, Tom, I so appreciate you and thank you for,
being on the last 10% talking.
We had a great discussion today.
I just, I know our listeners enjoyed it and, look forward to
making some announcements very soon about our super secret project.
So man, thank you for being on the show again.
Tom Freiling: You Dallas.
Good to talk to you.
Thanks for having me on the show.